So is masturbation initially, but it won't fill that empty void ten minutes later when the post-orgasmic glow has subsided.
Nah, piss off with this prissy nonsense. Same way when people talk about war being horrible but some people fricking loved it. If revenge doesn't make you feel any better don't start trying to make some grand moral stance on the matter. It's circumstantial, revenge isn't always "You murdered my kid so now I'm murdering you" then 5 minutes later you're sad again because you've still got a dead kid. Sometimes revenge is utterly amazing and utterly worth it.
About war? No. Just pointing out that some people have actually said they loved being in a war. Revenge? Yes. Not all acts of revenge are giant world ending events that offer insight into the human condition. Take this example:
>Customer walks into McDonalds >He's a c**t towards the person behind the till >Person behind the till pisses in his drink and serves it to him >c**t customer drinks the piss drink
That would be satisfying, it offers very little in terms of deep philosophical meaning and isn't "You killed my wife so I'm killing you" but it is still an act of revenge. Someone in an online game insults you so you TK him multiple times into rage quitting? Revenge and very satisfying.
Most forms of revenge in fiction are the extremely niche and involved kind. If you spend ten years of your left dedicated to taking down the guy who killed your kid and you finally do it, you're kinda not left with much because that's literally all you did for ten years. It's really the obsessive, all-encompassing sorts of revenge you gotta watch out for. If all you do is spend a few seconds pissing in the coffee cup of someone who pissed you off, well it's not like you devoted a whole lot of time or effort to it. Humans are finnicky creatures, there are even some who feel empty even after fulfilling actually worthwhile goals. "I spent half my life searching for the cure for cancer and now that I found it I don't really wanna do anything anymore." So imagine how empty it must feel to spend twenty years avenging your dead kid and once you finally have your vengeance your kid's still dead. Humans are really ass at balancing their shit out.
Again, this is basing the enjoyment of revenge on the individual and the effort it took to achieve. You might at the end of 20 years be glad you did it and move on with life. Revenge isn't some moronic generalisation that it's always unfulfilling. Fictional scenarios, as you rightly pointed out, are niche and the characters literally written to feel empty afterwards, a real person can feel a myriad of different things.
You have no prospects. You spent twenty years doing something that fundamentally doesn't really have any direct, quantifiable benefits. You have a twenty-year gap in your job history, you ghosted your friends and family (if you even have those anymore). Vengeance stories tend to be at their most interesting when the avenger has reduced themselves exclusively to being a tool of vengeance because that's the most raw you can get. They're usually designed to strip everything away from the character in question aside from their vengeance. At the end, either a third party ends up redeeming them to some extent (i.e, The Count of Monte Cristo) or they're left with nothing. If you don't have to sacrifice anything to obtain your vengeance, it's not a particularly interesting story, but if you sacrifice EVERYTHING for your vengeance, then that's more engaging. Of course, the trade-off with sacrificing everything is that you're left with less than what you started with so that sort of vengeance is always gonna be exclusively self-destructive.
Most forms of revenge in fiction are the extremely niche and involved kind. If you spend ten years of your left dedicated to taking down the guy who killed your kid and you finally do it, you're kinda not left with much because that's literally all you did for ten years. It's really the obsessive, all-encompassing sorts of revenge you gotta watch out for. If all you do is spend a few seconds pissing in the coffee cup of someone who pissed you off, well it's not like you devoted a whole lot of time or effort to it. Humans are finnicky creatures, there are even some who feel empty even after fulfilling actually worthwhile goals. "I spent half my life searching for the cure for cancer and now that I found it I don't really wanna do anything anymore." So imagine how empty it must feel to spend twenty years avenging your dead kid and once you finally have your vengeance your kid's still dead. Humans are really ass at balancing their shit out.
>childish trash like video games
his point stands, you never had a cause that needed revenge
[...]
Nah, piss off with this prissy nonsense. Same way when people talk about war being horrible but some people fricking loved it. If revenge doesn't make you feel any better don't start trying to make some grand moral stance on the matter. It's circumstantial, revenge isn't always "You murdered my kid so now I'm murdering you" then 5 minutes later you're sad again because you've still got a dead kid. Sometimes revenge is utterly amazing and utterly worth it.
You've probably never had to make tremendous sacrifices in the pursuit of that "revenge". Generally, the core of most arguments against vengeance in fiction is that it's usually not a cause worth destroying yourself over. Most avengers will welcome ruin in exchange for vengeance, and this is what causes them to become empty once their vengeance is completed. This is how vengeance usually plays out in fiction, because achieving your goals while giving up nothing in exchange makes for a piss-poor story.
Kinda, but it also pushes Arcueid too much. The last battle with Arcueid doesn't feel like its focusing on Ciel at all like it should, but Shiki and Arcueid.
Yeah but that's nothing new. Ciel was always sort of an extra in that fight. It's like how Rin is barely the main heroine of her own route, the true centerpieces were Shirou and Archer. Likewise, in the original Ciel route, Ciel wasn't really a significant focal point of the conflict between Shiki and Arcueid. I mean, Ciel's the reason Shiki rejected Arcueid, but it was still mainly a conflict between the two of them. Fundamentally, Ciel is always the underdog between herself and Arcueid, but unlike typical underdog stories in which the underdog can pull a come-from-behind victory, Ciel will never be able to contribute significantly to Arcueid's defeat. The only core member of Tsukihime's main cast who could ever stand a chance at beating Arcueid will always be Shiki and Shiki alone, which is a similar situation to how the only one with the means to defeat Gilgamesh in the UBW route was Shirou, as Saber didn't have the necessary tools to qualify in that route.
>It's like how Rin is barely the main heroine of her own route
Entire opinion discarded. What a total shit take. Go read it again, with thought this time.
2 years ago
Anonymous
he's right though. Rin doesn't defeat any one of importance in her route and she spends her time tied to a chair while the most important moment of the route is happening with Emiya vs Shirou which she doesn't even talk about or reflect on after the fight. She's a good character, but her importance in UBW isn't as important as Emiya or Shirou.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The central conflict is between Shirou and Archer. Rin's purpose is to support Shirou but she's not exactly the star of the show.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The central conflict is between Shirou and Archer. Rin's purpose is to support Shirou but she's not exactly the star of the show.
What was the message and theme of FSN?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Fate
Gilgamesh outright states it verbatim, the things that are most beautiful and worth protecting are those that you can't control >Unlimited Blade Works
Be true to your ideals and don't lose your way even if it means despair and suffering >Hollow Ataraxia
Same as UBW but in more of a "light at the end of the tunnel" kind of way
2 years ago
Anonymous
All three routes are basically different eassys on heroism and Shirou is the one giving them.
It's worth a read. Keep in mind that it's old so it's production values and music are small so it isn't like modern VN's. Also it doesn't have voice acting which may be a deal breaker for most. It still has a solid story especially in the far side routes.
>Have gay sex with vampires
Wait, I don't remember there ever being any gay sex with vampires in Tsukihime. The closest is just the threesome involving Kohaku and Hisui which is questionably "Gay", but I don't remember any gay vampire sex.
Did the person making this just confuse Arc for Saber who actually did have gay sex or am I forgetting something?
no, it's just a joke since Ciel and Arc are a popular gay pair for fans for Tsukihime. Also a dumb meme from twitter that calls people gay to get attention.
No DAAs actually appear in Fate/strange fake. The only DAs in F/sf are lower-rank ones. Plus, for much of F/sf's life, he was running off of lore from Kagetsu Tohya and stuff like Character Material and Plus Period. Since Nasu tends to autistically hoard lore and most people didn't actually know jack shit about the majority of DAAs aside from barebones trivia, Narita couldn't actually utilize DAAs in any meaningful way, so all his DAs ended up being original characters.
Seriously, from between the original Tsukihime's release and the remake, we didn't actually know much of anything about DAAs aside from very tiny fragments of info.
> No DAAs actually appear in Fate/strange fake. The only DAs in F/sf are lower-rank ones.
I was mostly shitposting but Caubac Alcatraz and Van-Fem are absolutely present in the story, although in minor roles so far. Also Zelretch, but it’s unclear if SF Zelretch is a DAA or not.
> Plus, for much of F/sf's life, he was running off of lore from Kagetsu Tohya and stuff like Character Material and Plus Period.
I agree. I was hoping that since the remake effectively killed the old tsukihimeverse for all intents and purposes, that Narita would just run buck wild with the characters and setting considering they’ll likely never appear again.
> Narita's more autistic than even Nasu.
Kinda but it’s a different kind of autism from Nasu. Narita’s basically just a hardcore TM fan writing fanfiction except he’s a professional writer and his fanfic is official. Narita definitely uses the setting and character’s way more liberally than Nasu. The whole premise of strange/fake(DAA’s and servants coexisting) is something that Nasu never even wanted to touch with a 10 ft pole.
Revenge is very satisfying, who started this meme?
t. has never had a cause for revenge to act on
Nah, piss off with this prissy nonsense. Same way when people talk about war being horrible but some people fricking loved it. If revenge doesn't make you feel any better don't start trying to make some grand moral stance on the matter. It's circumstantial, revenge isn't always "You murdered my kid so now I'm murdering you" then 5 minutes later you're sad again because you've still got a dead kid. Sometimes revenge is utterly amazing and utterly worth it.
You would know, right?
About war? No. Just pointing out that some people have actually said they loved being in a war. Revenge? Yes. Not all acts of revenge are giant world ending events that offer insight into the human condition. Take this example:
>Customer walks into McDonalds
>He's a c**t towards the person behind the till
>Person behind the till pisses in his drink and serves it to him
>c**t customer drinks the piss drink
That would be satisfying, it offers very little in terms of deep philosophical meaning and isn't "You killed my wife so I'm killing you" but it is still an act of revenge. Someone in an online game insults you so you TK him multiple times into rage quitting? Revenge and very satisfying.
Again, this is basing the enjoyment of revenge on the individual and the effort it took to achieve. You might at the end of 20 years be glad you did it and move on with life. Revenge isn't some moronic generalisation that it's always unfulfilling. Fictional scenarios, as you rightly pointed out, are niche and the characters literally written to feel empty afterwards, a real person can feel a myriad of different things.
You have no prospects. You spent twenty years doing something that fundamentally doesn't really have any direct, quantifiable benefits. You have a twenty-year gap in your job history, you ghosted your friends and family (if you even have those anymore). Vengeance stories tend to be at their most interesting when the avenger has reduced themselves exclusively to being a tool of vengeance because that's the most raw you can get. They're usually designed to strip everything away from the character in question aside from their vengeance. At the end, either a third party ends up redeeming them to some extent (i.e, The Count of Monte Cristo) or they're left with nothing. If you don't have to sacrifice anything to obtain your vengeance, it's not a particularly interesting story, but if you sacrifice EVERYTHING for your vengeance, then that's more engaging. Of course, the trade-off with sacrificing everything is that you're left with less than what you started with so that sort of vengeance is always gonna be exclusively self-destructive.
Most forms of revenge in fiction are the extremely niche and involved kind. If you spend ten years of your left dedicated to taking down the guy who killed your kid and you finally do it, you're kinda not left with much because that's literally all you did for ten years. It's really the obsessive, all-encompassing sorts of revenge you gotta watch out for. If all you do is spend a few seconds pissing in the coffee cup of someone who pissed you off, well it's not like you devoted a whole lot of time or effort to it. Humans are finnicky creatures, there are even some who feel empty even after fulfilling actually worthwhile goals. "I spent half my life searching for the cure for cancer and now that I found it I don't really wanna do anything anymore." So imagine how empty it must feel to spend twenty years avenging your dead kid and once you finally have your vengeance your kid's still dead. Humans are really ass at balancing their shit out.
>some homosexual kills me in TDM
>kill him back so hard I start dominating him
Vengeance is mine, feels pretty satisfying bro.
>childish trash like video games
his point stands, you never had a cause that needed revenge
milady
Speak for yourself. I've gotten revenge against people who've wronged me IRL, and it was the most satisfying experience I've ever had.
You've probably never had to make tremendous sacrifices in the pursuit of that "revenge". Generally, the core of most arguments against vengeance in fiction is that it's usually not a cause worth destroying yourself over. Most avengers will welcome ruin in exchange for vengeance, and this is what causes them to become empty once their vengeance is completed. This is how vengeance usually plays out in fiction, because achieving your goals while giving up nothing in exchange makes for a piss-poor story.
So is masturbation initially, but it won't fill that empty void ten minutes later when the post-orgasmic glow has subsided.
nah bro revenge is like a really good frick, you remember it for years and think back on it fondly
it's slow as shit
It's pretty good but the soundtrack is so short and repetitive it will drive you mad by the end.
I dont think theres a shirt as ugly as shiki's in any other show
WHO IS THAT BROWN CHOCOLATE QUEEN OOOOOOOH WHAT A BEAUTY I WANT TO LICK HER ALL OVER
Do i wait until the remake is full translated or should i just play the original already? Make me decide, i cant do it myself, im an npc.
Play the original, it's totally different already.
The remake is nothing special, it doesn't even have Akiha's route.
It improves Ciel's route by not making half of it a C/P of Arcueid's.
Kinda, but it also pushes Arcueid too much. The last battle with Arcueid doesn't feel like its focusing on Ciel at all like it should, but Shiki and Arcueid.
Yeah but that's nothing new. Ciel was always sort of an extra in that fight. It's like how Rin is barely the main heroine of her own route, the true centerpieces were Shirou and Archer. Likewise, in the original Ciel route, Ciel wasn't really a significant focal point of the conflict between Shiki and Arcueid. I mean, Ciel's the reason Shiki rejected Arcueid, but it was still mainly a conflict between the two of them. Fundamentally, Ciel is always the underdog between herself and Arcueid, but unlike typical underdog stories in which the underdog can pull a come-from-behind victory, Ciel will never be able to contribute significantly to Arcueid's defeat. The only core member of Tsukihime's main cast who could ever stand a chance at beating Arcueid will always be Shiki and Shiki alone, which is a similar situation to how the only one with the means to defeat Gilgamesh in the UBW route was Shirou, as Saber didn't have the necessary tools to qualify in that route.
>It's like how Rin is barely the main heroine of her own route
Entire opinion discarded. What a total shit take. Go read it again, with thought this time.
he's right though. Rin doesn't defeat any one of importance in her route and she spends her time tied to a chair while the most important moment of the route is happening with Emiya vs Shirou which she doesn't even talk about or reflect on after the fight. She's a good character, but her importance in UBW isn't as important as Emiya or Shirou.
The central conflict is between Shirou and Archer. Rin's purpose is to support Shirou but she's not exactly the star of the show.
What was the message and theme of FSN?
>Fate
Gilgamesh outright states it verbatim, the things that are most beautiful and worth protecting are those that you can't control
>Unlimited Blade Works
Be true to your ideals and don't lose your way even if it means despair and suffering
>Hollow Ataraxia
Same as UBW but in more of a "light at the end of the tunnel" kind of way
All three routes are basically different eassys on heroism and Shirou is the one giving them.
IT's a DEMAKE, not a remake. It's nothing like the original
Hisui is the best Tsuki
That's all.
how do you have gay sex in that game?
You don't. Shiki doesn't get to participate in gay sex.
It's worth a read. Keep in mind that it's old so it's production values and music are small so it isn't like modern VN's. Also it doesn't have voice acting which may be a deal breaker for most. It still has a solid story especially in the far side routes.
9 SONGS
ON LOOP
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>Have gay sex with vampires
Wait, I don't remember there ever being any gay sex with vampires in Tsukihime. The closest is just the threesome involving Kohaku and Hisui which is questionably "Gay", but I don't remember any gay vampire sex.
Did the person making this just confuse Arc for Saber who actually did have gay sex or am I forgetting something?
no, it's just a joke since Ciel and Arc are a popular gay pair for fans for Tsukihime. Also a dumb meme from twitter that calls people gay to get attention.
It’s only value is inventing DAA’s so Natita can do what nasu wouldn’t and have them fight servants like action figures.
No DAAs actually appear in Fate/strange fake. The only DAs in F/sf are lower-rank ones. Plus, for much of F/sf's life, he was running off of lore from Kagetsu Tohya and stuff like Character Material and Plus Period. Since Nasu tends to autistically hoard lore and most people didn't actually know jack shit about the majority of DAAs aside from barebones trivia, Narita couldn't actually utilize DAAs in any meaningful way, so all his DAs ended up being original characters.
Seriously, from between the original Tsukihime's release and the remake, we didn't actually know much of anything about DAAs aside from very tiny fragments of info.
> No DAAs actually appear in Fate/strange fake. The only DAs in F/sf are lower-rank ones.
I was mostly shitposting but Caubac Alcatraz and Van-Fem are absolutely present in the story, although in minor roles so far. Also Zelretch, but it’s unclear if SF Zelretch is a DAA or not.
> Plus, for much of F/sf's life, he was running off of lore from Kagetsu Tohya and stuff like Character Material and Plus Period.
I agree. I was hoping that since the remake effectively killed the old tsukihimeverse for all intents and purposes, that Narita would just run buck wild with the characters and setting considering they’ll likely never appear again.
Narita's more autistic than even Nasu. That was never gonna happen.
> Narita's more autistic than even Nasu.
Kinda but it’s a different kind of autism from Nasu. Narita’s basically just a hardcore TM fan writing fanfiction except he’s a professional writer and his fanfic is official. Narita definitely uses the setting and character’s way more liberally than Nasu. The whole premise of strange/fake(DAA’s and servants coexisting) is something that Nasu never even wanted to touch with a 10 ft pole.
YOU HAVE A DARKSIDE CALLED NANAYA THAT COMES OUT AND YOU RAPE GIRLS AND KILL NERO CHAOS
and then there's that one time where YOU get raped