There's always far more AoS is dead threads than TOW is dead threads. While there's a rivalry I think it mainly runs one way.
Nothing more cringe and pathetic then a GW piggy civil war, piggies arguing whoever who plays pretend more betterer and who gives the corporation more money
It's been described as console wars but it's worse, it's the same Fricking company. It's like Wii vs DS wars if something like that existed
The starter set sold more than any set before. Enjoy your decades old sculpts and shitty pewter models. Your ADD will just cause the models to be added to the pile of shame. Your models will eventually be rolled back into AoS. You will set your armies on fire. You will come crawling back.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Id be happy with Brett and Tomb Kangz back in AoS
4 months ago
Anonymous
They never left anon. We even got flesh eater courts which give Bretonnians a unique feeling. Tomb Kings got their own AoS style faction aswell with some of the best models made by GW in years.
AoS stays dabbing on Old World
4 months ago
Anonymous
Id be happy with Brett and Tomb Kangz back in AoS
>Enjoy your decades old sculpts and shitty pewter models.
I do, thank you. Were you trying to insult me? Metal models are way better than plastic or resin, and the old sculpts have so much more character than overproduced nuGW shit, which doesn't provide a canvas for /yourdudes/ just some shitty corpo feverdream where every greeble is planned out.
Rent free
The starter set sold more than any set before. Enjoy your decades old sculpts and shitty pewter models. Your ADD will just cause the models to be added to the pile of shame. Your models will eventually be rolled back into AoS. You will set your armies on fire. You will come crawling back.
>late 80s
True grogs are born in the late 50s and only play rogue trader.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>some of the best models made by GW in years.
BEHOLD! THE MAN WITH NO TASTE!
4 months ago
Anonymous
The harvester is actually a great model with tons of cute little details that make it great fun to build and paint. There are bits for a crow trying to steal a bone from the arms on the side and the whole thing has a great sense of movement and weight to it that doesn't convey well in images. But anon probably means the Katakros model, which is indeed among the greatest models GW has ever released. It's a masterpiece. There are a few more in the OBR range that are really good, like the Soulreaper and Liege-Kavalos.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Enjoy your decades old sculpts and shitty pewter models.
kek, zoomer AoSimps saying this like it's a bad thing will just never, EVER understand. Feels good being born in the late 80s.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Enjoy your decades old sculpts and shitty pewter models.
I do, thank you. Were you trying to insult me? Metal models are way better than plastic or resin, and the old sculpts have so much more character than overproduced nuGW shit, which doesn't provide a canvas for /yourdudes/ just some shitty corpo feverdream where every greeble is planned out.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>that negorid skull shape on the unit leader
Lmao
4 months ago
Anonymous
Delusional.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Wow that is the most copy paste unit I have ever seen. Such S O V L
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Highly trained and drilled uniform army in formation look the same.
Holy shit how dumb.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>that negorid skull shape on the unit leader
Lmao
Look at this troony haircut lmao
4 months ago
Anonymous
Very nicely painted models, anon. Keep it up.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Same. Those models are perfect for rank and file, they can't have extravagance poses - and too many details would made them hard to paint in larg quantities. Great stuff. Not to mention you can always buy yourself AoS minis if you seeking all those fancy miniatures that fit WFB like saddle fits cow.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>the starter set sold more than anything else
Huh? That's strictly not true
4 months ago
Anonymous
It sold out within minutes of being posted to GW’s website and the stores couldn’t keep the damned boxes on the shelf. They proceeded to end up mass printing the damned things afterwards to keep up with demand. Compare that to new 40k releases like the world eaters where you didn’t need to pre-order your models to actually get them.
There's way more AoS failing threads than TOW failing threads and way more shit posting goes on in the AoS threads. It's obviously Fantasy fans who are way more buttblasted. It's embarassing
4 months ago
Anonymous
>There's way more AoS failing threads than TOW failing threads
link them
4 months ago
Anonymous
If you had spent any time on here in the last few years there was pretty much consistently at least one thread on the Catalog every day, often more than one.
I think now that the hype of TOW has died, people realise it's not going to kill AoS at all, they're embarassed and stopped posting them
4 months ago
Anonymous
Meant to respond to
>There's way more AoS failing threads than TOW failing threads
link them
4 months ago
Anonymous
>trust me bro
4 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah I browse /tg/ regularly dumb gay and have done for quite some time. I've seen AoS seethe threads but the past month or so it's been exclusively TOW seethe threads. By all means, go through the archive and link the AoS if they're, currently as you imply, so plentiful. I also browse both generals and the /wfg/ suffers far more from shit-eating AoS trolls who are so insecure they feel the need to dunk on Fantasy/TOW.
4 months ago
Anonymous
it's literally the same people making the tow and aos seethe threads, but search age of sigmar in /wfg/ threads and you'll get WAY more results than you do putting warhammer fantasy in /aosg/. It really is obviously a hang up of WFB players which makes sense since why the frick would sigmar players care that the old setting was nuked.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>a hang up of WFB players
No, it's a hangup of mainly nolifing secondaries who think it'll help them fit in.
4 months ago
Anonymous
it's literally the same people making the tow and aos seethe threads, but search age of sigmar in /wfg/ threads and you'll get WAY more results than you do putting warhammer fantasy in /aosg/. It really is obviously a hang up of WFB players which makes sense since why the frick would sigmar players care that the old setting was nuked.
just report the fricking trolls and move on, it's not that hard... oh wait, I forgot that /tg/ has always been bad at this
4 months ago
Anonymous
>but the past month or so it's been exclusively TOW seethe threads
Then either you haven't been looking or you're a lying homosexual. There's been shitloads of TOWCHADS WON, AOS IS DEEEEEEEEEEEAD threads all over the place
4 months ago
Anonymous
Take your meds you delusional AoS schizophrenic. There has never been a single one of those threads. You’re having an episode because your game is about to end and be finished forever.
4 months ago
Anonymous
The only AoS models I own I bought for the sake of 40K kitbashes you spastic culture warrior
4 months ago
Anonymous
>AoS models I own
Stop reading there Age of Soicuck
4 months ago
Anonymous
Not my fault that GW decided to sell new ork boys as fricking fixed loadout monoposes, moron.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Hey dipshit you can still buy the old ones from GW. You get more in a box, they are better sculpts and they are actually able to be customized.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I've got plenty of oldboys as it is and maybe I don't want all my boys to twerk. What's actually wrong with hacking up some jawbrutes to add some extra variety to my boys and nobs other than some nobody on Ganker's the /teeg/ screeching about their gay little culture war?
4 months ago
Anonymous
Then search the archive and link them, I'll wait.
4 months ago
Anonymous
This one just autosaged yesterday: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/91636744/
4 months ago
Anonymous
>"shitload" >links one single thread
4 months ago
Anonymous
>O-ONE THREAD DOESN'T COUNT! >OTHER THREDD?!
Sure bro. All of the day, bro.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/91283815/
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/91365192/
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/91398192/
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/91561825/
I thought you said the past month or two has been "exclusively" AOS seething over TOW, bro. What happened?
I don’t play ligmar or old world. I will say the game does seem to attract a certain type of homosexual though. The type of guy who b***hes about what a bad villian abaddon is but has never read any fluff first hand in his life to actually form his own opinion. For that reason I’d guess the game will either die out in a year, or become incredibly niche, with minimal support and a few models. Not saying there aren’t genuine fans, but they seem to be the minority, and I’d be surprised if that is enough to sustain many releases or updates.
I'm butthurt because of the price, which is arriving at a tipping point for most sensible people. Otherwise it doing well woukd mean more models, and that's good if you grew up with the Old World.
I play KOW and Oathmark already, Oathmark's flexibility, campaign and movement system work well for me. KOW I have gotten lazy with.
It's a mix of AoS fans wanting to own 'the chuds' and then grogs who are still so bitter about the End Times they refuse to consider the possibility of GW making something good.
Tbh I didn't know what the frick warhammer the old world was until five days ago and I've still been making threads because it seems to get people riled up
>if the amount of seething it generates at all correlates with general interest it should do alright
By that metric AoS must be selling more than 40K and HH combined
/tg/'s version of console wars but somehow more pathetic with more homosexualry.
Personally there's an active 40k and heresy with growing old world interest at my FLGS but the next one over is only heresy and kill team and the next one is another set of interests. I have absolutely no need for one to succeed or fail because the bubbles exist wherever I want. If you actually care you're either a GW stockholder or a shitposter.
Jannies just seem to enjoy Warhammer flavored bait in general. "Sigmar failed" bait, "TOW is failing" bait, "how would X fare in 40k" bait, "Horus Heresy is capeshit" bait. Even strictly Ganker topics get to stay up if they're there to troll Warhammer grogs.
1) Going to finish the starter box first, I hate buying too much at once and want to do increments
2) I picked up the stuff that ironically went up for MtO yesterday for what GW ended up selling them for
3) going to get Tomb Guard later because of (1). Might get the old metal ones, necrosphinx is ugly 8th bullshit that I do not want
>Necrosphinx
That and the fembret foot knights are the only things I don’t want out of the release
4 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah I regret not getting some Ushtabi (both kinds) but figured since they're not MTO they'll be back after I finish painting my skele starter box.
I keep seeing redd*tors complain about mouldlines but I'm over here like "lol imagine actually removing those from TK skeletons they just look like more bone."
zoomer here, and i prefer fantasy, the Warhammer total war games are very popular and they got me to read the lore and then by proxy get into 40k and now here i am
Geniously curious how did zoomers receive fantasy lore as its either heavy on history or full wacky fantasy. I just dont see zoomers liking either of those things.
total war warhammer is cool and has like a bazillion people playing it, dozens and dozens of lore videos by different channels (the book of choyer, namely) which got me interested in it. I guess cocomelon watching young zoomers will probably be more attracted to the WACKY COW AELVES(tm) and TECHNOSTEAMPUNK FLYING DUARDIN(tm) but I like the grounded feel of the fantasy factions. When playing AOS, there's no stakes -- we're just fighting in some randomly generated field in some cliche land or whatever that nobody cares about. But getting into Fantasy, there is an actual detailed map with hundreds of different locations with pages of lore to read about and something I especially like from the TOW rulebook is the historical battles which make it feel like your battle actually matters in your own little mini campaign. The aforementioned lore videos alone have more views than any of the AOS garbage slop spewed out of paid nu-GW influencers.
Shouldn't having more options for games be a good thing? It's crazy that people are so damn tribal over this shit. I may not play AoS but I'm glad it exists because maybe one day I might want to play it. I didn't agree with the people mocking AoS players with remarks like "siggy piggy" and "age of shitmar" months ago and wishing of AoS to be discontinued. Just like I disagree with people now mocking ToW and hoping it gets discontinued again.
Nothing more cringe and pathetic then a GW piggy civil war, piggies arguing whoever who plays pretend more betterer and who gives the corporation more money
Nah it's great, it's like arguing over who got more gaped.
The most cringe thing of all are the endless poorgayposts seething that people are buying things they want. If 3D printing really was so wonderful why the frick don't you stay in your thread?
>Assumes people who don't want to get ripped off by James are printgays
Just proving how mindless you drones are. Also, have fun getting ripped off on your minis fatty
It’s scalpers who are just reselling shit. Happens to every new release. Doesn’t mean the game is doing good. Tomb kings had a large window when they were still available. GW is just doing low print numbers. Once they make their money back they will abandon TOW just like they did with games like Titan Legions.
prolly. GW is too much of a control freak to let CA do interesting things in the old world and they're pretty much out of material to adapt.
Also since CA is the dumbest company around, they probably blown everything they have left on total war 40k game that will fail because of how bad of an ip it is.
How owlcat tricked so many tards into thinking that fish abomination was hot is almost as confusing as moronic weebs being tricked into thinking sf6 has hot b***hes.
This is almost as bad a failure as watching blizzard explode in popularity after they practically gave them StarCraft and warcraft.
Seeing as my country is the unofficial bargain bin of GW's distribution, I have amassed a shit-ton of dryads, lizards, and spikey bois for literal peanuts. The first two will serve as a nice base for my WElf and Lizord armies, but I'm especially looking forward to basing all of the Slaves/Goreblade stuff on 30mm squares and triggering the shit out of local Smegmarists whenever I field my new "Chaos Warriors/Knights" alongside the classic sculpts.
Because setting wise AoS is like the moronic kid brother in the backseat trying to imitate what the older brother does. >You think SIGMAR'S cool? Well in MY setting Sigmar's alive and he rides a dragon and he has lightning powers and he has magic golden armor and his army can never die! >You think Nagash is cool? Well in MY setting Nagash is alive and he's a GINORMOUS SKELLYMAN and he has a RIVER OF SOULS and he united ALL the undeads and his army can never die! >You think Teclis is cool? Well now he's an all powerful wizard and he has a magic sphix and he resurrected all the elves as elemental ninja monks and they technically are just golems made by Teclis so they NEVER DIE!
It feels like they genuinely surveyed a panel of 7 years olds for design input. If GW didn't have a team of solid sculptors to make top notch models for it this game would've been in the garbage years ago.
>I don't think about you at all
Clearly you do if 90% of your factions are copied from whf. Unless you're too much of a moron to comprehend that, which is a fair thing I'd expect from an AoS player (literally had one make a comment the other day at the store about how ToW sucks because he can't use his whacky fec models, not realizing fec are LITERALLY a ghoul army ported from whf.)
copied? you talk like AoS is not a direc continuation of WHF, I know you want to belive aos is just another stuff that killed your game (i didint, GW did, and the custumers to) or a diferent dimention, but no, is a continuation of the story, just deal whit it.
Whfb is just a crappy game compared to aos. It relies on this adolescent bullying and gatekeeping for its survival. I find the reality that there was a large audience of people wanting to play a fantasy system who never even looked at aos because it revolting. I hope it fails again not just because the system itself is poor but because its playerbase is toxic.
copied? you talk like AoS is not a direc continuation of WHF, I know you want to belive aos is just another stuff that killed your game (i didint, GW did, and the custumers to) or a diferent dimention, but no, is a continuation of the story, just deal whit it.
>aos players are obsessed with whfb, my evidence for this is an anecdote of an aos player being literally unaware something in whfb exist.
Didn't think this through did you moron. FeC also has a new model range of units incompatible with your 20 year old game.
Everything I ever see coming from within the aos community itself is postive and all I ever see from wfhb is hate for both their own system and everything else. Its the miserable lot in the tt community, worse than even mtg.
>aos players are morons obsessed with whfb, my evidence for this is an anecdote of an aos player being obsessed with a faction's models/aesthetic and being too moronic to understand it's just pasta from whf
Ftfy, my point was the majority of the time a faction a player likes is just a port from whf... which is my point that aos has nothing of value really and the parts people enjoy from it are typically just whf (unless their taste is just rank garbage and they like se or overlords.) >Everything I ever see coming from within the aos community itself is postive
Yeah, that's what happens when your game self advertises as corporate slop- only drooling consoomers who think GW can do no wrong ever are gonna make up the playerbase.
The lore is actually so bad it hurts. I think a lot of the models are cool and I hear gameplay wise it's good. I probably would've given it a chance but I just can't, I just CAN'T get into the Doomspire Whiplords/Spikesnarl Eggkin/Deathcream Skatebones crap. It really is MOBA-tier.
Whfb is just a crappy game compared to aos. It relies on this adolescent bullying and gatekeeping for its survival. I find the reality that there was a large audience of people wanting to play a fantasy system who never even looked at aos because it revolting. I hope it fails again not just because the system itself is poor but because its playerbase is toxic.
If it's going to "die" (by whatever fricking metric that means) it's going to take months, because it's going to take time for people to bounce off the system, the cost of it or the massive time-sink nature of it.
And it probably will be reduced notably in people's interest because the game is just WHFB and WHFB is a just bit shit. This edition of it in particular. It's like someone houseruled the frick out of it without anyone telling them to cut all the shit bits and keep the good ideas they managed to have. Though that's still just attempting turd polishing when it comes down to it.
Why do AoSgays hate TOW anyway? Like I understand why the WFBgays hated AoS because it replaced their game, but why the other way around? What does TOW existing detract from AoS?
AoS players barely talk about whfb. Its all pretty much just secondaries being mad at 10 year old things about AoS that kept the online bullshit alive.
>What does TOW existing detract from AoS?
40k is GE's massive cash cow that's never going away, so 40k players don't feel threatened by side games and actively encourage releases for shit like 30k and Kill Team and board games like Blackstone Fortress because they just see it as a source of extra models for their 40k armies, and often times these games are used as a secondary pathway to updating stuff that 40k needs (like the new mandrakes and new striking scorpions updating outdated finecast resin models that are out of production), or are potentially trial grounds for stuff that will later be released in mainline 40k (like the Kroot kill team that preceded the massive Kroot range expansion and refresh that Tau just got)
Age of Sigmar is NOT the golden goose. It's the number two spot, and while virtually nobody believes that 40k will lose its throne to something like Kill Team or Necromunda or even 30k, there is a deep-seated insecurity in the AoS player base that what happened to WHFB could in turn happen to them, and the number 2 spot could end up taken by someone else and they get demoted to side-game.
This sort of sectarian infighting is only possible because GW have an absolute monopoly on miniature wargaming, Privateer Press and X-Wing fricking self destructed and GW are ascendant at the moment with no real competition
is a deep-seated insecurity in the AoS player base that what happened to WHFB could in turn happen to them
see, this is exactly that insecurity in action. imagine telling a 40k player "HEY MAN AREN'T YOU WORRIED NECROMUNDA IS GONNA REPLACE YOU? YOU'LL BE LOSER SIDE GAME TIER FOREVER WITH NO NEW MODELS!!!!"
they'll fricking die laughing, not start seething and sperging out the way AoS players do. Because WHFB being taken out back behind the shed and Old Yeller'd DID happen, and the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, they have a justifiable fear that AoS could suffer the same fate.
theres also the fact that AoS never had to actually compete with WFB. Now it does, i swear GW us doing this for its own amusement, having both games alive at the same time so they can watch them fight.
>theres also the fact that AoS never had to actually compete with WFB
Yeah I think this is a large element of it as well. 40k has simultaneously existed with every single spinoff since it's inception, this is the first time AoS is having to coexist in this way. You don't see 40k players sperg out the same manner because shit like adeptus titanicus and Battlefleet Gothic and aeronautica imperialis and epic armageddon have already existed for so long that the existence of spinoffs is taken for granted.
Nobody is dumb enough to think GW will kill off mainline 40k to exclusively focus on forge world resin models for 30k shit, but AoS and TOW could end up competing for the same plastic injection molds (WHICH ISN'T HELPED BY THOSE FRICKS AT NOTTINGHAM REFUSING TO BUILD ANOTHER GODDAMN FACTORY NOT RELIANT ON BRITBONG EIGHTEENTH CENTURY POWER GRIDS)
>Imagine thinking poster count on a dying board on a failing former anime, current white supremacist website means anything.
christ you can taste the siggy piggy >dying board
frick off to /qst/ >former anime
literally owned by hiroshimoot now, if anything the rest of the website is being overrun with /vt/ shit that escapes containment >current white supremacist website
lol
Literally and actually yes, the current state of the site is because of Rapeape's direction.
https://www.wired.com/story/Ganker-moderation-buffalo-shooting/
Yeah and those 80 posters are split between new players in disbelief at how bent and out of balance the game is, new and old players who can't work out fundamental rules like when does a challenge end, and old grogs who either refuse to believe anything is wrong with the system, or everything wrong is actually a feature designed to keep the first 2 groups out of their pure game. Either way they're all shouting at each other and calling each other morons barely a week from release. It's all a downward spiral from here, group 3 will be happy when group 1 abandon the game when they realise they need to paint 150 models for the sort of game group 3 tells them they should be playing, but will also be furious when gw panders to group 1 with quarterly faqs and balance patches leading to meta chasing they're just not used to. Game's fricked yo it just hasn't realised yet.
Y'all do realize that if whfb dies I'm not going to suddenly consneed and play aos right? I'm just gonna dust off my 40k and Heresy minis, while painting my 6e and warmaster stuff on the side.
I don't care about any of the systems. GW always bloatmax their rulesets and make them a chore to play. I'm going to buy the fantasy and aos sculps I like and use them in an mini agnonistic ruleset with my friends.
>tabletop is inferior to video games
Why do I keep seeing this posted all over /tg/? Am I going insane, I thought people here actually liked tabletop. Tabletop has always been more fun for me than any video game.
There's a lot of mechanically interesting wargames out there, and board wargames, but seeing as this is a fantasy thread I'll gloss over that and point out that in a typical fashion for anyone that makes similar posts you've completely ignored the social aspects of in-person wargaming.
>tabletop is inferior to video games
Why do I keep seeing this posted all over /tg/? Am I going insane, I thought people here actually liked tabletop. Tabletop has always been more fun for me than any video game.
If I was going to expect the sadsacks who stink up stores to hang around anywhere online Ganker would be up there.
If you want gameplay and in person social experiences, board games exist and are better.
If you're fine with online social experiences, or are only interested in gameplay, video games exist and are better.
There's really no reason to play tabletop mini games without minis when they aren't generally that great as games.
Hobby gays are a blight upon this hobby and deserve the rope. If the only good aspect is the hobby part then just paint those 75mm display pieces, or do actual scale modelling.
I'm okay with the hobby aspect, it keeps poorgays and ideologues out because they either can't afford the figures or they won't invest the time to assemble and paint them. Spend $20 on shit war tiles and youhave to play with shit people.
You do understand that all product lines are done at risk to GW? Old World failing is not something you should invite because to recoup losses they will just push even more space marines and the last thing we need in Warhammer is more fricking space marines.
Would there be a way to combine both AoS and Warhammer Fantasy into one setting? Even if you needed to retcon bits.
I just ask, because I do like the factions in AoS and some of the fluff, like the different gods, etc. But I do prefer the setting, like world and history of Warhammer Fantasy.
Basically, the easiest way to do so would be to assume that Archeon does manage to trigger the world shattering event, but instead of End of Times, it becomes a new age of apocalyptic war, just like the old fluff about pre Vortrex battles between lizardmen and chaos. So you have gods with much more direct interventions (stormcasts), giants marching on again as a sort of united force and gods beside chaos ones getting to set up their own realms to expand the battlefields.
This would still basically shatter the status quo of Warhammer Fantasy, but it would allow you to port most of AoS lineup into it, beside some more outlandish battlefield maps and units. Basically, it would be a scenario where Fantasy envelops and incorporates AoS.
They originally wanted to do so. Put Sigmarines into Warhammer Fantasy, but then decided that amount of new stuff they want to make would be hard to put and justify in WHFB, so it's better to axe it and create new one
>local AoS community slowly died over the last year >in a discord for pick up games but either no one responds to game requests or respond just to say the timing isn’t going to work >big increase in posts asking about meeting up for TOW when it releases and guys posting old models they’re painting to get ready >TOW releases >all requests for games are met with more dead silence or the schedule not working out
whelp
it's been out for what, a week?
if the amount of seething it generates at all correlates with general interest it should do alright
It is so weird to me that for WEEKS before it came out people were making threads about it being dead.
I sincerely don't understand why it's causing so much butthurt. Is it from Age of Sigmar fans?
Yeah there's a rivalry between the two.
There's always far more AoS is dead threads than TOW is dead threads. While there's a rivalry I think it mainly runs one way.
It's been described as console wars but it's worse, it's the same Fricking company. It's like Wii vs DS wars if something like that existed
Only AoStrannies on /tg/ seem to care to "war" about it.
I just like laughing at them. It's the kind of pleasure you get from making fun of morons.
Rent free
The starter set sold more than any set before. Enjoy your decades old sculpts and shitty pewter models. Your ADD will just cause the models to be added to the pile of shame. Your models will eventually be rolled back into AoS. You will set your armies on fire. You will come crawling back.
Id be happy with Brett and Tomb Kangz back in AoS
They never left anon. We even got flesh eater courts which give Bretonnians a unique feeling. Tomb Kings got their own AoS style faction aswell with some of the best models made by GW in years.
AoS stays dabbing on Old World
>late 80s
True grogs are born in the late 50s and only play rogue trader.
>some of the best models made by GW in years.
BEHOLD! THE MAN WITH NO TASTE!
The harvester is actually a great model with tons of cute little details that make it great fun to build and paint. There are bits for a crow trying to steal a bone from the arms on the side and the whole thing has a great sense of movement and weight to it that doesn't convey well in images. But anon probably means the Katakros model, which is indeed among the greatest models GW has ever released. It's a masterpiece. There are a few more in the OBR range that are really good, like the Soulreaper and Liege-Kavalos.
>Enjoy your decades old sculpts and shitty pewter models.
kek, zoomer AoSimps saying this like it's a bad thing will just never, EVER understand. Feels good being born in the late 80s.
>Enjoy your decades old sculpts and shitty pewter models.
I do, thank you. Were you trying to insult me? Metal models are way better than plastic or resin, and the old sculpts have so much more character than overproduced nuGW shit, which doesn't provide a canvas for /yourdudes/ just some shitty corpo feverdream where every greeble is planned out.
>that negorid skull shape on the unit leader
Lmao
Delusional.
Wow that is the most copy paste unit I have ever seen. Such S O V L
>Highly trained and drilled uniform army in formation look the same.
Holy shit how dumb.
Look at this troony haircut lmao
Very nicely painted models, anon. Keep it up.
Same. Those models are perfect for rank and file, they can't have extravagance poses - and too many details would made them hard to paint in larg quantities. Great stuff. Not to mention you can always buy yourself AoS minis if you seeking all those fancy miniatures that fit WFB like saddle fits cow.
>the starter set sold more than anything else
Huh? That's strictly not true
It sold out within minutes of being posted to GW’s website and the stores couldn’t keep the damned boxes on the shelf. They proceeded to end up mass printing the damned things afterwards to keep up with demand. Compare that to new 40k releases like the world eaters where you didn’t need to pre-order your models to actually get them.
>source: dude trust me bro
There's way more AoS failing threads than TOW failing threads and way more shit posting goes on in the AoS threads. It's obviously Fantasy fans who are way more buttblasted. It's embarassing
>There's way more AoS failing threads than TOW failing threads
link them
If you had spent any time on here in the last few years there was pretty much consistently at least one thread on the Catalog every day, often more than one.
I think now that the hype of TOW has died, people realise it's not going to kill AoS at all, they're embarassed and stopped posting them
Meant to respond to
>trust me bro
Yeah I browse /tg/ regularly dumb gay and have done for quite some time. I've seen AoS seethe threads but the past month or so it's been exclusively TOW seethe threads. By all means, go through the archive and link the AoS if they're, currently as you imply, so plentiful. I also browse both generals and the /wfg/ suffers far more from shit-eating AoS trolls who are so insecure they feel the need to dunk on Fantasy/TOW.
it's literally the same people making the tow and aos seethe threads, but search age of sigmar in /wfg/ threads and you'll get WAY more results than you do putting warhammer fantasy in /aosg/. It really is obviously a hang up of WFB players which makes sense since why the frick would sigmar players care that the old setting was nuked.
>a hang up of WFB players
No, it's a hangup of mainly nolifing secondaries who think it'll help them fit in.
just report the fricking trolls and move on, it's not that hard... oh wait, I forgot that /tg/ has always been bad at this
>but the past month or so it's been exclusively TOW seethe threads
Then either you haven't been looking or you're a lying homosexual. There's been shitloads of TOWCHADS WON, AOS IS DEEEEEEEEEEEAD threads all over the place
Take your meds you delusional AoS schizophrenic. There has never been a single one of those threads. You’re having an episode because your game is about to end and be finished forever.
The only AoS models I own I bought for the sake of 40K kitbashes you spastic culture warrior
>AoS models I own
Stop reading there Age of Soicuck
Not my fault that GW decided to sell new ork boys as fricking fixed loadout monoposes, moron.
Hey dipshit you can still buy the old ones from GW. You get more in a box, they are better sculpts and they are actually able to be customized.
I've got plenty of oldboys as it is and maybe I don't want all my boys to twerk. What's actually wrong with hacking up some jawbrutes to add some extra variety to my boys and nobs other than some nobody on Ganker's the /teeg/ screeching about their gay little culture war?
Then search the archive and link them, I'll wait.
This one just autosaged yesterday: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/91636744/
>"shitload"
>links one single thread
>O-ONE THREAD DOESN'T COUNT!
>OTHER THREDD?!
Sure bro. All of the day, bro.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/91283815/
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/91365192/
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/91398192/
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/91561825/
I thought you said the past month or two has been "exclusively" AOS seething over TOW, bro. What happened?
TOW won though. Rounds out
>Spoonfeed me
You have to go back
I don’t play ligmar or old world. I will say the game does seem to attract a certain type of homosexual though. The type of guy who b***hes about what a bad villian abaddon is but has never read any fluff first hand in his life to actually form his own opinion. For that reason I’d guess the game will either die out in a year, or become incredibly niche, with minimal support and a few models. Not saying there aren’t genuine fans, but they seem to be the minority, and I’d be surprised if that is enough to sustain many releases or updates.
I'm butthurt because of the price, which is arriving at a tipping point for most sensible people. Otherwise it doing well woukd mean more models, and that's good if you grew up with the Old World.
I play KOW and Oathmark already, Oathmark's flexibility, campaign and movement system work well for me. KOW I have gotten lazy with.
It's a mix of AoS fans wanting to own 'the chuds' and then grogs who are still so bitter about the End Times they refuse to consider the possibility of GW making something good.
Tbh I didn't know what the frick warhammer the old world was until five days ago and I've still been making threads because it seems to get people riled up
To be honest most whiny AoS players stick to their own thread, same goes for grogs who hates AoS.
Then there are a select few morons who like to stir shit between the two by either falseflagging both threads, or creating bait threads like this one.
>if the amount of seething it generates at all correlates with general interest it should do alright
By that metric AoS must be selling more than 40K and HH combined
/tg/'s version of console wars but somehow more pathetic with more homosexualry.
Personally there's an active 40k and heresy with growing old world interest at my FLGS but the next one over is only heresy and kill team and the next one is another set of interests. I have absolutely no need for one to succeed or fail because the bubbles exist wherever I want. If you actually care you're either a GW stockholder or a shitposter.
Do you have some dark pact with the janitors, how do these stay up?
Jannies just seem to enjoy Warhammer flavored bait in general. "Sigmar failed" bait, "TOW is failing" bait, "how would X fare in 40k" bait, "Horus Heresy is capeshit" bait. Even strictly Ganker topics get to stay up if they're there to troll Warhammer grogs.
Warhammer™ and Warhammer™ accessories board.
They already said they won't. Can't blame them for not wanting to waste plastic injection lines.
It is fueled by seething and coping. And i mean from both sides! That amount of energy could power the whole earth!
No and you can frick off back to your containment thread you homosexual sigmarxist troony
rent free
It's comfy. If I were the only one buying and building and painting, it would not be a dead game. Perfection.
Lol I played an AoS game yesterday with the excess 40k terrain since it was all that was leftover
>If I were [...] buying and building and painting
Alas, since TWW secondaries do not own models, this will never come to be.
Been playing since 6th. Have Dark Elves, High Elves, and Dwarfs already. Just started the TK army I always wanted to as a kid.
Why did you buy a gorillion things like "map of the old world" or "magic item chart" but not actual models like the tomb guys or the Black sphinx?
1) Going to finish the starter box first, I hate buying too much at once and want to do increments
2) I picked up the stuff that ironically went up for MtO yesterday for what GW ended up selling them for
3) going to get Tomb Guard later because of (1). Might get the old metal ones, necrosphinx is ugly 8th bullshit that I do not want
>Necrosphinx
That and the fembret foot knights are the only things I don’t want out of the release
Yeah I regret not getting some Ushtabi (both kinds) but figured since they're not MTO they'll be back after I finish painting my skele starter box.
I keep seeing redd*tors complain about mouldlines but I'm over here like "lol imagine actually removing those from TK skeletons they just look like more bone."
Bit early to say since there aren't many models actually up for sale almost everything is sold out.
I felt something was missing from this image.
zoomer here, and i prefer fantasy, the Warhammer total war games are very popular and they got me to read the lore and then by proxy get into 40k and now here i am
Go back, no one wants you here.
that sure sucks for you
I would bet my paycheck that you're also a zoomer
Geniously curious how did zoomers receive fantasy lore as its either heavy on history or full wacky fantasy. I just dont see zoomers liking either of those things.
total war warhammer is cool and has like a bazillion people playing it, dozens and dozens of lore videos by different channels (the book of choyer, namely) which got me interested in it. I guess cocomelon watching young zoomers will probably be more attracted to the WACKY COW AELVES(tm) and TECHNOSTEAMPUNK FLYING DUARDIN(tm) but I like the grounded feel of the fantasy factions. When playing AOS, there's no stakes -- we're just fighting in some randomly generated field in some cliche land or whatever that nobody cares about. But getting into Fantasy, there is an actual detailed map with hundreds of different locations with pages of lore to read about and something I especially like from the TOW rulebook is the historical battles which make it feel like your battle actually matters in your own little mini campaign. The aforementioned lore videos alone have more views than any of the AOS garbage slop spewed out of paid nu-GW influencers.
youtube told them it was good and zoomers dont think for themself
Shouldn't having more options for games be a good thing? It's crazy that people are so damn tribal over this shit. I may not play AoS but I'm glad it exists because maybe one day I might want to play it. I didn't agree with the people mocking AoS players with remarks like "siggy piggy" and "age of shitmar" months ago and wishing of AoS to be discontinued. Just like I disagree with people now mocking ToW and hoping it gets discontinued again.
Still mad I see.
you should be bumping aosg instead of making these threads its starting to get a little slow
Zero interest until they make Dark Elves and Lizardmen playable.
Once they start supporting Skaven I might check it out
Nothing more cringe and pathetic then a GW piggy civil war, piggies arguing whoever who plays pretend more betterer and who gives the corporation more money
Nah it's great, it's like arguing over who got more gaped.
The most cringe thing of all are the endless poorgayposts seething that people are buying things they want. If 3D printing really was so wonderful why the frick don't you stay in your thread?
>Assumes people who don't want to get ripped off by James are printgays
Just proving how mindless you drones are. Also, have fun getting ripped off on your minis fatty
>ARGH DON'T PRINT STUFF FOR 10 CENTS A MODEL, BUY MY 30 DOLLAR KNOCKOFFS THAT ARE 30 BUCKS CHEAPER THAN GW REEEEEEE
Lol
Lmao
Aids of Slopmar is dead
Everything sold, no games played. Just like everything that isn't 40k.
It’s scalpers who are just reselling shit. Happens to every new release. Doesn’t mean the game is doing good. Tomb kings had a large window when they were still available. GW is just doing low print numbers. Once they make their money back they will abandon TOW just like they did with games like Titan Legions.
It takes time to assemble and paint entire armies
prolly. GW is too much of a control freak to let CA do interesting things in the old world and they're pretty much out of material to adapt.
Also since CA is the dumbest company around, they probably blown everything they have left on total war 40k game that will fail because of how bad of an ip it is.
How owlcat tricked so many tards into thinking that fish abomination was hot is almost as confusing as moronic weebs being tricked into thinking sf6 has hot b***hes.
This is almost as bad a failure as watching blizzard explode in popularity after they practically gave them StarCraft and warcraft.
Seeing as my country is the unofficial bargain bin of GW's distribution, I have amassed a shit-ton of dryads, lizards, and spikey bois for literal peanuts. The first two will serve as a nice base for my WElf and Lizord armies, but I'm especially looking forward to basing all of the Slaves/Goreblade stuff on 30mm squares and triggering the shit out of local Smegmarists whenever I field my new "Chaos Warriors/Knights" alongside the classic sculpts.
What c**t?
yeah, no one here is planning to play it. they stay with AoS
even AoS gays think AoS is trash
>First point is convoluted list building
>For AoS
I think this guy is genuinely moronic
give it about 6 months, they gave away about a million dollars in free product to e-celebs to push it everywhere.
Soon
TOW is all sold out everywhere
im just waiting for the Dwarves to be released. Theres nothing I can do.
If they re-release Dwarf Miners I might actually cave in and buy from GW after more than a decade.
Why cant they use both? I mean why does it need to be two seperate franchises?
Because setting wise AoS is like the moronic kid brother in the backseat trying to imitate what the older brother does.
>You think SIGMAR'S cool? Well in MY setting Sigmar's alive and he rides a dragon and he has lightning powers and he has magic golden armor and his army can never die!
>You think Nagash is cool? Well in MY setting Nagash is alive and he's a GINORMOUS SKELLYMAN and he has a RIVER OF SOULS and he united ALL the undeads and his army can never die!
>You think Teclis is cool? Well now he's an all powerful wizard and he has a magic sphix and he resurrected all the elves as elemental ninja monks and they technically are just golems made by Teclis so they NEVER DIE!
It feels like they genuinely surveyed a panel of 7 years olds for design input. If GW didn't have a team of solid sculptors to make top notch models for it this game would've been in the garbage years ago.
lmao cope and seethe
>I don't think about you at all
Clearly you do if 90% of your factions are copied from whf. Unless you're too much of a moron to comprehend that, which is a fair thing I'd expect from an AoS player (literally had one make a comment the other day at the store about how ToW sucks because he can't use his whacky fec models, not realizing fec are LITERALLY a ghoul army ported from whf.)
>and then everybody clapped
rent
free
Go back to your discord
copied? you talk like AoS is not a direc continuation of WHF, I know you want to belive aos is just another stuff that killed your game (i didint, GW did, and the custumers to) or a diferent dimention, but no, is a continuation of the story, just deal whit it.
>aos players are obsessed with whfb, my evidence for this is an anecdote of an aos player being literally unaware something in whfb exist.
Didn't think this through did you moron. FeC also has a new model range of units incompatible with your 20 year old game.
Everything I ever see coming from within the aos community itself is postive and all I ever see from wfhb is hate for both their own system and everything else. Its the miserable lot in the tt community, worse than even mtg.
>aos players are morons obsessed with whfb, my evidence for this is an anecdote of an aos player being obsessed with a faction's models/aesthetic and being too moronic to understand it's just pasta from whf
Ftfy, my point was the majority of the time a faction a player likes is just a port from whf... which is my point that aos has nothing of value really and the parts people enjoy from it are typically just whf (unless their taste is just rank garbage and they like se or overlords.)
>Everything I ever see coming from within the aos community itself is postive
Yeah, that's what happens when your game self advertises as corporate slop- only drooling consoomers who think GW can do no wrong ever are gonna make up the playerbase.
Ok, but cant you still use most of the models for the games?
And that sounds like your average manga. Kinda like Dragonball and One-Piece!
The lore is actually so bad it hurts. I think a lot of the models are cool and I hear gameplay wise it's good. I probably would've given it a chance but I just can't, I just CAN'T get into the Doomspire Whiplords/Spikesnarl Eggkin/Deathcream Skatebones crap. It really is MOBA-tier.
Whfb is just a crappy game compared to aos. It relies on this adolescent bullying and gatekeeping for its survival. I find the reality that there was a large audience of people wanting to play a fantasy system who never even looked at aos because it revolting. I hope it fails again not just because the system itself is poor but because its playerbase is toxic.
>I mean why does it need to be two seperate franchises?
To keep capeshit and bulldyke sidecuts away from WHFB and 40k
If it's going to "die" (by whatever fricking metric that means) it's going to take months, because it's going to take time for people to bounce off the system, the cost of it or the massive time-sink nature of it.
And it probably will be reduced notably in people's interest because the game is just WHFB and WHFB is a just bit shit. This edition of it in particular. It's like someone houseruled the frick out of it without anyone telling them to cut all the shit bits and keep the good ideas they managed to have. Though that's still just attempting turd polishing when it comes down to it.
Why do AoSgays hate TOW anyway? Like I understand why the WFBgays hated AoS because it replaced their game, but why the other way around? What does TOW existing detract from AoS?
>Why do AoSgays hate TOW anyway?
they've been hearing age of shitmar and age of smegmar for 10 fricking years from those losers.
So they're just mad that people that were mean to them get to have fun?
their fun comes from harassing every one else.
buck broken beyond belief
AoS players barely talk about whfb. Its all pretty much just secondaries being mad at 10 year old things about AoS that kept the online bullshit alive.
aosgays dont care about tow
aosgays hate towgays
Shitmar gays are evil tasteless schizos
iPad generation get irrationally angry when they're not getting enough attention.
>What does TOW existing detract from AoS?
40k is GE's massive cash cow that's never going away, so 40k players don't feel threatened by side games and actively encourage releases for shit like 30k and Kill Team and board games like Blackstone Fortress because they just see it as a source of extra models for their 40k armies, and often times these games are used as a secondary pathway to updating stuff that 40k needs (like the new mandrakes and new striking scorpions updating outdated finecast resin models that are out of production), or are potentially trial grounds for stuff that will later be released in mainline 40k (like the Kroot kill team that preceded the massive Kroot range expansion and refresh that Tau just got)
Age of Sigmar is NOT the golden goose. It's the number two spot, and while virtually nobody believes that 40k will lose its throne to something like Kill Team or Necromunda or even 30k, there is a deep-seated insecurity in the AoS player base that what happened to WHFB could in turn happen to them, and the number 2 spot could end up taken by someone else and they get demoted to side-game.
This sort of sectarian infighting is only possible because GW have an absolute monopoly on miniature wargaming, Privateer Press and X-Wing fricking self destructed and GW are ascendant at the moment with no real competition
>there is a deep-seated insecurity in the AoS player base that what happened to WHFB could in turn happen to them
is a deep-seated insecurity in the AoS player base that what happened to WHFB could in turn happen to them
see, this is exactly that insecurity in action. imagine telling a 40k player "HEY MAN AREN'T YOU WORRIED NECROMUNDA IS GONNA REPLACE YOU? YOU'LL BE LOSER SIDE GAME TIER FOREVER WITH NO NEW MODELS!!!!"
they'll fricking die laughing, not start seething and sperging out the way AoS players do. Because WHFB being taken out back behind the shed and Old Yeller'd DID happen, and the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, they have a justifiable fear that AoS could suffer the same fate.
>im not moronic
>if you disagree that proves im not moronic
okay moron
theres also the fact that AoS never had to actually compete with WFB. Now it does, i swear GW us doing this for its own amusement, having both games alive at the same time so they can watch them fight.
>theres also the fact that AoS never had to actually compete with WFB
Yeah I think this is a large element of it as well. 40k has simultaneously existed with every single spinoff since it's inception, this is the first time AoS is having to coexist in this way. You don't see 40k players sperg out the same manner because shit like adeptus titanicus and Battlefleet Gothic and aeronautica imperialis and epic armageddon have already existed for so long that the existence of spinoffs is taken for granted.
Nobody is dumb enough to think GW will kill off mainline 40k to exclusively focus on forge world resin models for 30k shit, but AoS and TOW could end up competing for the same plastic injection molds (WHICH ISN'T HELPED BY THOSE FRICKS AT NOTTINGHAM REFUSING TO BUILD ANOTHER GODDAMN FACTORY NOT RELIANT ON BRITBONG EIGHTEENTH CENTURY POWER GRIDS)
>wfg general: new thread today, 82 posters
>aos general: new thread yesterday, 36 posters
OH NONONOO
this is somehow even more pathetic than people who care about twitch viewers or active steam players
Obviously it does matter if you're here
that doesnt make any sense
are you a moron
I regularly play games that get almost no traction here. There are better metrics than /tg/ generals of all fricking things.
Imagine thinking poster count on a dying board on a failing former anime, current white supremacist website means anything.
>Imagine thinking poster count on a dying board on a failing former anime, current white supremacist website means anything.
christ you can taste the siggy piggy
>dying board
frick off to /qst/
>former anime
literally owned by hiroshimoot now, if anything the rest of the website is being overrun with /vt/ shit that escapes containment
>current white supremacist website
lol
Literally and actually yes, the current state of the site is because of Rapeape's direction.
https://www.wired.com/story/Ganker-moderation-buffalo-shooting/
>white supremacist
>flagrantly anti-white website, overrun with leftards and a bias in their favour
yeah right
Yeah and those 80 posters are split between new players in disbelief at how bent and out of balance the game is, new and old players who can't work out fundamental rules like when does a challenge end, and old grogs who either refuse to believe anything is wrong with the system, or everything wrong is actually a feature designed to keep the first 2 groups out of their pure game. Either way they're all shouting at each other and calling each other morons barely a week from release. It's all a downward spiral from here, group 3 will be happy when group 1 abandon the game when they realise they need to paint 150 models for the sort of game group 3 tells them they should be playing, but will also be furious when gw panders to group 1 with quarterly faqs and balance patches leading to meta chasing they're just not used to. Game's fricked yo it just hasn't realised yet.
TOTAL
ROUNDS
DEATH
how bad are trays for the 'rank and flank' of old world?
Siggypiggies seething have been the best part of the release.
The amount of copium-huffing has reach galactic proportions.
only when The Empire gets back their hill billy Troops from 2007
For a dead game it's fricking sold out everywhere, much to my disappointment.
Y'all do realize that if whfb dies I'm not going to suddenly consneed and play aos right? I'm just gonna dust off my 40k and Heresy minis, while painting my 6e and warmaster stuff on the side.
Damn, looks like we're gonna have to shut down AoS because one TWW anon isn't going to buy it
YWNBM
whfb already died. You cant kill what has no life.
Now it is TOW.
We won
Pigmar lost
I don't care about any of the systems. GW always bloatmax their rulesets and make them a chore to play. I'm going to buy the fantasy and aos sculps I like and use them in an mini agnonistic ruleset with my friends.
PREACH!
pretty much. no one in my store bought anything and GW doesnt even want people to buy it.
>Plays your game for $20
Don't mind if I do.
What's the point of tabletop without hobby aspect? Tabletop is inferior to strategy video games in every single way. May as well play those.
>What's the point of ever having sex? Might as well just jerk off and cry.
>tabletop is inferior to video games
Why do I keep seeing this posted all over /tg/? Am I going insane, I thought people here actually liked tabletop. Tabletop has always been more fun for me than any video game.
Tabletop is fun because of the hobby aspect.
If you want gameplay and in person social experiences, board games exist and are better.
If you're fine with online social experiences, or are only interested in gameplay, video games exist and are better.
There's really no reason to play tabletop mini games without minis when they aren't generally that great as games.
>board games exist and are better.
>video games exist and are better.
why?
There's a lot of mechanically interesting wargames out there, and board wargames, but seeing as this is a fantasy thread I'll gloss over that and point out that in a typical fashion for anyone that makes similar posts you've completely ignored the social aspects of in-person wargaming.
If I was going to expect the sadsacks who stink up stores to hang around anywhere online Ganker would be up there.
Video games are very limited on what the dev coded into the game. Or you need to hack it.
Hobby gays are a blight upon this hobby and deserve the rope. If the only good aspect is the hobby part then just paint those 75mm display pieces, or do actual scale modelling.
I'm okay with the hobby aspect, it keeps poorgays and ideologues out because they either can't afford the figures or they won't invest the time to assemble and paint them. Spend $20 on shit war tiles and youhave to play with shit people.
>No Lizardmen
>No Dark Elves
>No vampire Counts
Absolute slop.
You do understand that all product lines are done at risk to GW? Old World failing is not something you should invite because to recoup losses they will just push even more space marines and the last thing we need in Warhammer is more fricking space marines.
Nope.
>filthy dumb roundbase scum
my 30x60s are coming in. I am rehabbing some AoS models I bought cheap on eBay.
How would you build a blood dragon vampire count this edition? Thinking of themeing around mousillon
Its so ogor for siggerpiggers
Would there be a way to combine both AoS and Warhammer Fantasy into one setting? Even if you needed to retcon bits.
I just ask, because I do like the factions in AoS and some of the fluff, like the different gods, etc. But I do prefer the setting, like world and history of Warhammer Fantasy.
Basically, the easiest way to do so would be to assume that Archeon does manage to trigger the world shattering event, but instead of End of Times, it becomes a new age of apocalyptic war, just like the old fluff about pre Vortrex battles between lizardmen and chaos. So you have gods with much more direct interventions (stormcasts), giants marching on again as a sort of united force and gods beside chaos ones getting to set up their own realms to expand the battlefields.
This would still basically shatter the status quo of Warhammer Fantasy, but it would allow you to port most of AoS lineup into it, beside some more outlandish battlefield maps and units. Basically, it would be a scenario where Fantasy envelops and incorporates AoS.
They originally wanted to do so. Put Sigmarines into Warhammer Fantasy, but then decided that amount of new stuff they want to make would be hard to put and justify in WHFB, so it's better to axe it and create new one
>local AoS community slowly died over the last year
>in a discord for pick up games but either no one responds to game requests or respond just to say the timing isn’t going to work
>big increase in posts asking about meeting up for TOW when it releases and guys posting old models they’re painting to get ready
>TOW releases
>all requests for games are met with more dead silence or the schedule not working out
whelp