It not only saved DnD, it revitalized the entire TTRPG community which was dying before 5e came out.
You should be more grateful, /tg/.
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It not only saved DnD, it revitalized the entire TTRPG community which was dying before 5e came out.
You're not wrong. You're just an butthole for rubbing salt in the wound.
But they spambot is literally wrong? RPGs weren't shrinking, Paizos playerbase was growing every year.
Not like I have any hard data on it, but my impression was that Pathfinder and such mostly attracted people who were already into traditional games (e.g. people who had already done some roleplaying and wanted to try something different from DnD) but not really roping new people into the scene.
>my impression
Well there you go
Go what?
Go educate yourself instead of talking out your ass. The rest of your post isn't even worth wasting my time reading since you admit in the outset that it's based entirely on a gut assumption completely divorced from reality. You may as well be saying
>my impression is gravity is caused by tiny invisible goblins constantly dragging us back to earth out of jealousy
Eh?
>mostly attracted people who were already into traditional games (e.g. people who had already done some roleplaying and wanted to try something different from DnD) but not really roping new people into the scene.
That's how you get new people playing. People bring their families and spouses. I first got into RPGs with Pathfinder and I saw how they branched out when they took over Gencon so they were definitely on the up and up.
>Paizos playerbase was growing every year.
Yes, I remember my grandmother telling me that her knitting group was starting to play Pathfinder. My sister's band also sold their electric guitars because they were playing Pathfinder every weekend. My best friend dropped out of college because he was super into it too. Holy shit you people. You have zero understanding how unpopular ttrpg as a hobby is even now with the massive growth of 5e's popularity. The vast majority of "players" don't even play and a lot have never played a single session.
>I remember my grandmother telling me that her knitting group was starting to play DnD 5e. My sister's band also sold their electric guitars because they were playing DnD 5e every weekend. My best friend dropped out of college because he was super into it too.
You're moronic
Not as moronic as anybody that believes ttrpg will ever be a popular hobby. It's a lifestyle brand people claim to like for nerd cred. Most people that "play" 5e don't.
>the world's GREATEST
I disagree.
I sincerely think it was Critical Role (and other "Tabletop Let's Play" type videos)
I mean CR helped. But 5e was already selling like gangbusters before Critical Role even started playing it.
Didn't need saving.
I was pretty upset about it for a few years there but then D&D Next came out and gave me hope. Now it seems like One D&D is undoing some key elements of it.
Grateful for what exactly?
What would have happened in a world where 5e was a flop? Pathfinder takes over?
I think we need to go back to the duality of Basic and Advanced.
"Basic" could be OneD&D, newcomer friendly, DMs-as-guides, plenty of apps, virtual tabletops, safety of plot above unpredictable danger, level up in milestones, nothing is harmful, nothing is forbidden, players can customize everything, everything is balanced. Railroad. Safe. Clean. Inclusive. DM rolls behind the screen. Good for players who don't like to learn rules and prefer a more roleplay heavy and funny experience. The point of the game is "telling the story we want to tell".
"Advanced" would be the real adult game. Only physical books, only in-person games, no screens or phones, DM as impartial referee, hexcrawl/dungeoncrawl, individual XP, no milestone XP, no plot, just the world as it is. DMing is all about building the world before sessions, then being the referee while players explore it and, if they're good, conquer it. Player characters can die if they run into stuff they can't handle, or if they're not careful. DM rolls openly. The point of the game is "how far can we get in glory before death?" Adult oriented, mature content, dark tone, etc.
I always felt that a revival of 3rd edition, called D&D Legacy Edition would be nice. Of course call the latest one Basic Edition so as to differentiate them.
Why not just play 3e dnd at that point? It won’t be any better. I bet they would even frick up the reprints.
they just need to fix up grappling, and include some options from various splatbooks. that would make for a good reprint of 3
>I think we need to go back to the duality of Basic and Advanced.
The conditions in which that split come to be aren't the same though. AD&D was written by Gygax to sanitise the product from Arneson contributions (because he wasn't in TSR anymore) and as a collection of various third part rulings integrated in core. We had something similar to that split (although not for the same reasons) with 4e and PF1e as in a line if product made in direct response of another. WotC will never make or revitalise another line of product to be in direct competition with his main one.
>go back to the duality of Basic and Advanced.
there never was such a duality people were mixing shit from the get go. it only existed on paper
Basic was the one that actually sold. Advanced probably lost money for TSR after the 2e PHB of not earlier.
>Please be thankful some game you don't play got more people involved in some online forums you don't care about.
Why, exactly?
this is the quintessential ttrpg
even those who dont like it play it out of necessity.
>even those who dont like it play it out of necessity.
>and other lies I tell myself to feel better.
>It not only saved DnD,
No, it just revitalised the brand name, d&d as is was fine in its different incarnations
>it revitalized the entire TTRPG community which was dying before 5e came out.
Lies. The "community" (as in people engaging in the hobby) was as much as widespread as in 3.x era and stable. The successive spike in players was due to a combination of factors (streamers, stranger things, covid lockdowns) to which 5e is only an almost irrelevant part (any version of the game could have more or less worked in the same conditions).
>You should be more grateful, /tg/.
I don't engage in you "sucking the dick of corporations" activity op
I'm grateful that it got more of my friends into the idea of playing a TTRPG so I can actually run games with people I know, but all that means is that I'm going to be playing DnD for a long time when I wanna play fricking Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, Pathfinder, Starfinder etc.
WotC fell ass-backwards into getting lucky with everything but their behavior, marketing, and products causing a surge of popularity. They tried their absolute hardest to ruin it, but people were determined to give them money for their poorly-made system and all of the shit supplements they release for it. There is not a single part of 5e, its quality, or WotC in general that caused the popularity to increase.
>Stranger Things didn't even have the kids playing a WotC edition of the game
>Critical Role started their campaign on Pathfinder before moving to the newest thing
>The pandemic just gave a general growth to the hobby and D&D happened to be the most well-known name
WotC has tried to do everything in their power to piss consumers off since then, like they always do, but for some reason it doesn't actually do much to damage anything.
Save it from what?
Ttrpg as bathing was doing fine before
New games were released, modules were made, settings written.
It's not like something like RTS in vydia that didn't saw a decent game in a decade.
All it did is added a bunch of people that are not willing to try anything but 5e
And all the mechanics of the 5e are bad, combat is boring, characters are immortal, math is non existent
It's like saying McDonald's saved cooking as a hobby
>It's like saying McDonald's saved cooking as a hobby
Except when McDonald's started they actually did do good things. Like only using beef tallow instead of seed oils, and promoting a more natural source of ingredients.
Then that one politician has a heart attack and said it was because beef fat is bad for you and not because he was an unhealthy piece of shit.
>Ttrpg as bathing was doing fine before
People that play TTRPG don't bathe much
Death is always preferable to prolonged suffering.
>Stale bait is stale, more news at 11
>It not only saved DnD, it revitalized the entire TTRPG community which was dying before 5e came out.
Yeah this is the same arguments that certain people use to justify importing masses of immigrants to "save" the economy. It's all about money to these people. It's either hordes of sandBlack folk to prop up pension funds or it's hordes of normoBlack folk to prop up a failing game with nothing interesting about it. Either way it's pathetic and angry shills who scream "THE HOBBY IS DYING" are the most disingenuous fricks ever. Who cares? There's enough content out there to last a thousand years. And after all isn't playing in your basement with the same 5 people for the next 40 years the same argument you use for why you shouldn't do anything about the SJW invasion of TTRPGs?
>It not only saved DnD, it revitalized the entire TTRPG community which was dying before 5e came out.
Unironically no, the edition did nothing
The TTRPG revival was a result of podcasts.
>The TTRPG revival was a result of podcasts.
Name a single one that had any influence that isn't Critical Role.
Holomyth
>plays two sessions before getting bored and abandoning it
Ya hate to see it
He said ANY influence, not a particularly strong one
vtrannies didnt happen until after 5e was already wildly popular, so it had nothing to do with any "revival"
Stranger Things however did
Never said they did, anon never put a time limit on the influence either.
anon you cant influence a revival after its already happened
vtroony games are a product of the popularity boost, not a cause
My Brother, My Brother, and Me/The Adventure Zone
>the entire TTRPG community which was dying before 5e came out
Lol
Lmao
Maybe actually look into the RPG scenes that weren't just WotC and White Wolf in the US.
It also introduced genuine brainrot to the TTRPG community.
This thread is about 5e not 3.5.
I will always be grateful to the butthurt 3.5 causes to 4rries and OSRtards to this day.
>Pisses on my head
>Calls it rain
I don't think so, partner
We do not have to be grateful for something we do not like.
Not really true. The community was already at an upsurge a few years prior, late 00s and early 10s were the point at which basically everyone suddenly was a "geek". D&D 5e just rode the wave well and used its' branding to its' advantage.
It's still a badly designed game.
They only thing I can commend 5e on is that it's a containment game for every moron out there
But then again 5e is responsible for these morons so u don't think I can even do that
as much as people talk about 5e I still think rpgs are a long way from the late 80s - early 90s in terms of popularity...but yeah, the "ogl era" was the worst and I'm glad it's over
One thing I've noticed is how shallow player engagement with these games is now. Technology has moved ahead and players don't have the attention spans or desire to commit to an actual hobby.
it's with everything, people went from going online to talk about their hobbies to "being online" as a hobby
Even I see myself doing this with movies for example, it has been years since I went to the cinema, I just see the overall discourse about a movie, take it face value and that's it, and I completely blocked any sort of videogame media for the same reason, I just buy random shit and play...rpgs is easier because my games are so far from the mainstream 5e/osr/pbta discourse, that it can't spoil it, but I imagine it's almost impossible for kids to do it
>DND
For me it's (in order of good memories with my friends):
AD&D > 3.5e = 4e > 5Ee
As for the rules themselves, I really don't care, everything past AD&D is almost the same.
>in order of good memories with my friends
Anon is too pure for this board
4e rules are more of a departure from 3e (or any D&D) than 3e was from 2e.
disagree, IMO 4e feels like 3.5 but with streamlined classes (and way more approachable), that's it.
That's because you never fully approached 3.5 and I'm guessing not 2e either. The biggest mechanical difference between 2e and 3e was inverting several mechanics to make everything about rolling high so all + were good and all - were bad then additionally they went through and named everything consistently (keywording like Magic) so that it became possible to even discuss the rules broadly and concisely.
That then allowed a tremendous amount of power scaling, more than had ever been possible before without the game dissolving but THAT became the problem people had with the game so 4e was a fricking grim reaper coming through and destroying 60+% of the game - unforgivably without regard even for legacy rules and fundamental touchstones of the game.
Then 5e came along and put that stuff back in.
>That's because you never
nah man, you are just assuming stuff, and also not reading, I said "IMO". You can disagree, doesn't bother me.
>Then 5e came along and put that stuff back in.
No, it didn't. 5e took the first 6 levels of 3e core, stretched them out over 20 levels. The core math and enemies are made for morons who WANT the whole game to play like they're still 3rd level but with slightly bigger numbers. And then they put 3.5 magic back in with a slap on the wrist, without even thinking how it'd affect the rest of the game they made.
If 5e did actually put actual 3.5 stuff back in and worked on 3.5's issues, we'd have an entirely different game on out hands. But 5e is just a poor imitation of early low-level 3e.
>4e is the same as 3.5 and 5e
Holy frick you are a goddamn moron.
That's a moronic take. That said, they're all awful for all different reasons.
If you mean it dumbed down the TTRPG community and allowed many in who seek now to ruin it along with the rest of the world, then...sure.
But I'll never be grateful for that. I'm grateful that WOTC showed us how to singlehandedly ruin a good thing.
I would rather it had died
It was a perfect storm of 5E being new, generally new player friendly, e-celebs shilling the frick out of it, the decline of fantasy MMORPGs and the rise of the faux portand tier bazinga nerd.
5E isn't that good, and I would say the people they attracted to open tables at game shops where I enjoyed playing was a net negative
frick this piece of shit game, and frick anyone who plays this piece of shit, if i ever have another braindead chud asking me gm this piece of liquid brown slop that came out of the asscheeks of Monte Cucks and Bryan Halls gay demon baby because they have the reading comprehension of a five year old and dont want to play an actually good ttrpg, i'm going to shove their d20s so far up their foreskin that they're gonna be shitting pissing out dice for the rest of their life.
frick 5e, frick WotC, frick hasbro and stop buying their products so this Blizzard tier company can run into the ground and die.
only morons wont check out One D&D
This is some of the juiciest bait I've ever seen. The absolute state of mainstream infused gaming, you can just feel the rage it fuels for this thread. OP, I respect your audacity, even though you're a trolling shithead.
frick off