Chance is fine and conditions are fine, the problem is when you mix the two, especially on multiple levels. 10% chance of critical strike is fine and fun, deal 10% more damage while unarmed is fun, have a 10% chance to deal 10% more unarmed damage on critical strike is just moronic.
No I don't like anything that involves chance, Souls games intentionally doesn't have any chance-based RPG mechanics and those games shit on every other ARPG.
>greataxe+10 does 99% of mob's hp, kills mob in 2 hits >greataxe+11 kills mob in 1 hit
What's wrong with breakpoints?
They create binary situations like above and it's boring as frick
Once you know exactly what the breakpoints are, it's broken. It's solved. It's boring now
3 months ago
Anonymous
>They create binary situations
...and what's wrong with that? Would you like frame data in fighting games to be random too?
There's nothing wrong with knowing that you can kill an enemy in 5 hits instead of 3-8 hits
3 months ago
Anonymous
>...and what's wrong with that?
I literally said exactly what was wrong with that in the very next line and even the second part of that sentence
You'd already read two and a half, you could stand to read the other one and a half
3 months ago
Anonymous
I gave you a chance to present a better argument and you didn't take the chance. Your original argument is shit.
3 months ago
Anonymous
My original argument is fine, yours is shit
3 months ago
Anonymous
Since you couldn't give a compelling arguments as to why breakpoints are bad I'll just assume some youtuber told you that they're bad so now you believe that without knowing why.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The thing about Souls is that you have multiple attacks, light attack, heavy attack, charged heavy attack, jump attack, rolling attack, running attack and so on. If you don't kill the enemy in one light attack then you can do a heavy attack. Or if it has low HP you can do a quick, low damage running attack or throw a knife to finish it off.
It's not like your average ARPG where you stand in place spamming one or two abilities hoping that everything dies before you do, of course that would get boring because it already is boring.
3 months ago
Anonymous
True, I think the ideal would be a system with both that kind of detail and some slight uncertainty that not everything will go precisely to a perfectly plotted-out plan which controlled RNG can offer
Since you couldn't give a compelling arguments as to why breakpoints are bad I'll just assume some youtuber told you that they're bad so now you believe that without knowing why.
Your compelling reason as to why they're good was 'there's nothing wrong with it', eat wiener you passive aggressive hypocrite
3 months ago
Anonymous
RNG would be fricking awful for souls games. Malenia is what you get when you add RNG and she’s one of the worst bosses in the series.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>greataxe+10/11
instead of >attack does 80% of enemy health, requiring two hits with 75% waste of second hit
you do >attack does 80% of enemy health, combo other ability does 30% of enemy health
and >with next upgrade, attack does 105% of enemy health
or >with next upgrade, attack does 90% of enemy health and passive ability does additional 12% over five seconds while you begin attacking new enemy
3 months ago
Anonymous
This is too complicated. Just make damage and health random and let me mash the attack button until everything is dead.
>greataxe+10 does 99% of mob's hp, kills mob in 2 hits >greataxe+11 kills mob in 1 hit
[...]
They create binary situations like above and it's boring as frick
Once you know exactly what the breakpoints are, it's broken. It's solved. It's boring now
Breakpoints are fine if correctly designed. The damage values and health values need to continually evolve and the player needs to have multiple options. They, by experience, derive the appropriate combination to use in each scenario as they go.
3 months ago
Anonymous
MOST IMPORTANTLY breakpoints CAN NOT be based on hitting thresholds with summed bonuses that create a moronic problem-solving minigame in character building. Vermintide 2 is (or was) a great example of this, requiring the player to hit a threshold of "bonus damage to [type]" for multiple types and specific to each weapon and rerolling all their fricking gear to make it happen.
>Quantum Reflex: up to a 2% [1.999995 - 2.0]% chance to get 1% dodge rating when your passive crit chance fails to trigger on cat like enemies during periods in which you look away from the screen to tell your mom to make more tendies
Now I will play your game
>% chance >to reduce specific cooldowns >by short durations >only when inflicting >status effect >on specific kinds of enemies
It's actually the meme the frick.
The only thing that would make any sense is if you had attacks that hit like 30 times and it stacks for whatever big hit you would follow up with afterwards
I'm assuming this is not the case here?
26% is the stat the gear the character is wearing currently.
20-40% are the percentages the gear CAN have, 20% at the lowest, 40% at the highest. Every time it drops with that stat, it will be within the 20 to 40% range.
>10% chance to inflict bleed but then 26% chance for your weapon's on-bleed effect to actually proc >10% chance to get the gear you want but then 5% chance for it to be a good version of that gear
Well, at least they're consistent.
>he doesn't know
It's Lucky Hit, so it's not 26% chance to happen, it has to proc the -lucky hit itself- for that chance to happen.
So it's more like >100% chance to inflict bleed, and that attack that inflict bleed has a 5% lucky hit chance, which has a 26% chance to reduce cooldowns but only one elites
So when you get all the bullshit out of the way it's more like a <1% chance for the effect to actually happen.
The game doesn't explain it well, but here's why they use this moronic wording "up to XX%". Each skill has its own Lucky Hit Chance (for example 30%), which is then multiplied by your LHC bonuses from gear, paragon, passives etc. (for example 250%) which is then multiplied by the LHC of a certain effect (in this case 100%), which is then capped at 26%. It's very unintuitive and in practice, people give up on trying to "math it out" and just try if it works in practice. I mean, that's what we did before most of us quit due to boredom.
Looks fine to me, only issue is if there are hidden aspects like an internal cooldown to prevent it proccing endlessly on massive AoEs that they don't put into the tooltip
diablo 4 is full of shit like this with hyper specific conditionals that improve hyper specific damage types. and they're always randomly distributed in the effects section, so even if you figure out what combination of effects you want, you have to read through a novel's worth of effects on every item you pick up in case it's better than what you have.
Shit like this makes me feel like the devs never even took a couple hours to play their own game
>lucky hit
what the frick were they smoking when they thought it would be a good idea to add a chance to even roll for a chance for your gear to do anything
It's weird to me how these hyperconditional-chance stats have become so common in the past decade, while if you look at older CRPGs it's all simple full on stats or simple conditions that, if fulfilled, always give the bonus.
In concept, lucky hit chance is good because single-hit skills have higher LHC while multi-hit skills have lower LHC. In practice, stacking LHC on most skills doesn't make sense since Blizzard devs don't fricking know how to balance their own game. For example, on sorcerer LHC procs only make sense or 2 or 3 multi-hit skills like ice shards or lightning ball.
>tfw "0.2% chance to increase acid damage by 5% with 0.1% chance of reducing incoming piercing damage upon inflicting burning condition by hitting enemies with "of cerebral palsy" suffix in the leftmost corner of the map while drinking healing potion" item drops
this only became a thing relatively recently thoughever
this is only possible due to the proliferation of scripting and oop brainrot that didn't exist back in the day
back when you had to hardcode every single skill effect nobody would waste one of their 255 possible effects on 3% more poison damage for 5 seconds after a perfect guard against dragons on a full moon
scripting languages and event driven programming have destroyed rpgs
that's not even true, you can mod in stats like that to games like diablo 2 with only softcoding, it's just that the devs didn't want to create moronic stats
>increases critical hit/headshot damage by X% >game doesn’t tell you that it’s only increasing the bonus damage, making it almost completely fricking worthless
>When you deal a critical hit there is a % chance to-
Every fricking time. Anyone who ties shit to critical hits when there's no way to actually significantly increase crit chance in the game is the fricking worst. In games like RoR or Cyberpunk where making a 100% crit build is super easy, it's fine, but frick me that shit is god awful in games like Destiny and most looter shooters where crits usually only come from headshots (which are impossible on some enemies) or are just straight up RNG.
>10-20% chance to crit which averages 10-20% more damage >can be used on a rapid hitting weapon so you still get the effects pretty decently often
i dont see the issue
If you see a percentage stat don't use it, percentages in coding DO NOT WORK >20% >50% >80%
will always statistically trigger less than what they say, the description text is always wrong and deceiving, percentages aren't even coinflips they are based on algorithms that can't be coded for a percentage to be triggering in a percentile logically, it simply doesn't work.
Only raw added numbers function properly.
getting bonus damage or fat bonus crit chance to all attacks when under 20-30% hp, and either stacking evasive stats or positioning/playing well enough to not get hit
I think you could have chosen a better example. This one can actually fit in a well-designed game. Here's how: this effect, being specific to elites, does not have cost from the normal stat budget. You don't sacrifice competence against non-elite enemies for it. And the elites are tuned past your abilities with the normal stat budget.
Cooldown reduction on hit against elites creates a genuinely good dynamic, requiring you to keep engaged with them to accelerate your abilities, sustain and mitigation/avoidance and damage, instead of falling back on hit-and-run tedium.
>You don't sacrifice competence against non-elite enemies for it. And the elites are tuned past your abilities with the normal stat budget.
Except it does have a cost: that effect is taking up the slot of a better effect
I think that's a unique weapon too, so it's even worse because you're inherently using a suboptimal weapon on top of that.
That "slot," being outside of the normal effect stat budget, is specific to anti-elite effects, you silly Black person. Sure, you could possibly have a better anti-elite effect, but that's the same conversation as reasonable normal effects being of varying quality.
get good and use your brain
>+20% to your Brain Capacity when responding to a homosexual Enemies on Taiwanese Image Boards during Mondays
I like rpgs, i just dont like rpg mechanics
hello yoship
RPG mechanics are only shitty when they're based on chance.
Chance is fine and conditions are fine, the problem is when you mix the two, especially on multiple levels. 10% chance of critical strike is fine and fun, deal 10% more damage while unarmed is fun, have a 10% chance to deal 10% more unarmed damage on critical strike is just moronic.
No I don't like anything that involves chance, Souls games intentionally doesn't have any chance-based RPG mechanics and those games shit on every other ARPG.
Without chance every game becomes breakpoints instead, admit it
Well it depends. Skillful games don't need chance (or much of it). Games like chess and darksouls are good example.
What do you mean by that?
>greataxe+10 does 99% of mob's hp, kills mob in 2 hits
>greataxe+11 kills mob in 1 hit
They create binary situations like above and it's boring as frick
Once you know exactly what the breakpoints are, it's broken. It's solved. It's boring now
>They create binary situations
...and what's wrong with that? Would you like frame data in fighting games to be random too?
There's nothing wrong with knowing that you can kill an enemy in 5 hits instead of 3-8 hits
>...and what's wrong with that?
I literally said exactly what was wrong with that in the very next line and even the second part of that sentence
You'd already read two and a half, you could stand to read the other one and a half
I gave you a chance to present a better argument and you didn't take the chance. Your original argument is shit.
My original argument is fine, yours is shit
Since you couldn't give a compelling arguments as to why breakpoints are bad I'll just assume some youtuber told you that they're bad so now you believe that without knowing why.
The thing about Souls is that you have multiple attacks, light attack, heavy attack, charged heavy attack, jump attack, rolling attack, running attack and so on. If you don't kill the enemy in one light attack then you can do a heavy attack. Or if it has low HP you can do a quick, low damage running attack or throw a knife to finish it off.
It's not like your average ARPG where you stand in place spamming one or two abilities hoping that everything dies before you do, of course that would get boring because it already is boring.
True, I think the ideal would be a system with both that kind of detail and some slight uncertainty that not everything will go precisely to a perfectly plotted-out plan which controlled RNG can offer
Your compelling reason as to why they're good was 'there's nothing wrong with it', eat wiener you passive aggressive hypocrite
RNG would be fricking awful for souls games. Malenia is what you get when you add RNG and she’s one of the worst bosses in the series.
>greataxe+10/11
instead of
>attack does 80% of enemy health, requiring two hits with 75% waste of second hit
you do
>attack does 80% of enemy health, combo other ability does 30% of enemy health
and
>with next upgrade, attack does 105% of enemy health
or
>with next upgrade, attack does 90% of enemy health and passive ability does additional 12% over five seconds while you begin attacking new enemy
This is too complicated. Just make damage and health random and let me mash the attack button until everything is dead.
What's wrong with breakpoints?
Breakpoints are fine if correctly designed. The damage values and health values need to continually evolve and the player needs to have multiple options. They, by experience, derive the appropriate combination to use in each scenario as they go.
MOST IMPORTANTLY breakpoints CAN NOT be based on hitting thresholds with summed bonuses that create a moronic problem-solving minigame in character building. Vermintide 2 is (or was) a great example of this, requiring the player to hit a threshold of "bonus damage to [type]" for multiple types and specific to each weapon and rerolling all their fricking gear to make it happen.
Soulslop arent even rpgs
>Quantum Reflex: up to a 2% [1.999995 - 2.0]% chance to get 1% dodge rating when your passive crit chance fails to trigger on cat like enemies during periods in which you look away from the screen to tell your mom to make more tendies
Now I will play your game
>% chance
>to reduce specific cooldowns
>by short durations
>only when inflicting
>status effect
>on specific kinds of enemies
It's actually the meme the frick.
Actually it's a % chance of a % chance.
You are like a little baby
Watch this
>it's "II"
>implying there's an even weaker version
wtf
What game? Asking for a friend, unironically
filename
>been here 17 years
>still fell for the old source at the end of the filename
Oh boy. Thanks fren
The only thing that would make any sense is if you had attacks that hit like 30 times and it stacks for whatever big hit you would follow up with afterwards
I'm assuming this is not the case here?
So this game is somehow even worse than what I expected from a cheap gatcha knockoff.
>Up to a 26% [20 - 40]%
What the frick does this mean
The chance scales from 20% to 40% based on some stat probably
26% is the stat the gear the character is wearing currently.
20-40% are the percentages the gear CAN have, 20% at the lowest, 40% at the highest. Every time it drops with that stat, it will be within the 20 to 40% range.
>10% chance to inflict bleed but then 26% chance for your weapon's on-bleed effect to actually proc
>10% chance to get the gear you want but then 5% chance for it to be a good version of that gear
Well, at least they're consistent.
>he doesn't know
It's Lucky Hit, so it's not 26% chance to happen, it has to proc the -lucky hit itself- for that chance to happen.
So it's more like
>100% chance to inflict bleed, and that attack that inflict bleed has a 5% lucky hit chance, which has a 26% chance to reduce cooldowns but only one elites
So when you get all the bullshit out of the way it's more like a <1% chance for the effect to actually happen.
The game doesn't explain it well, but here's why they use this moronic wording "up to XX%". Each skill has its own Lucky Hit Chance (for example 30%), which is then multiplied by your LHC bonuses from gear, paragon, passives etc. (for example 250%) which is then multiplied by the LHC of a certain effect (in this case 100%), which is then capped at 26%. It's very unintuitive and in practice, people give up on trying to "math it out" and just try if it works in practice. I mean, that's what we did before most of us quit due to boredom.
Also I might be remembering the formula wrong since I quit 5 months ago lel...
>lucky hit chance had a hard cap
Jesus christ blizzard really hate fun. Most of the lucky hit mechanics aren't even good.
Looks fine to me, only issue is if there are hidden aspects like an internal cooldown to prevent it proccing endlessly on massive AoEs that they don't put into the tooltip
diablo 4 is full of shit like this with hyper specific conditionals that improve hyper specific damage types. and they're always randomly distributed in the effects section, so even if you figure out what combination of effects you want, you have to read through a novel's worth of effects on every item you pick up in case it's better than what you have.
Shit like this makes me feel like the devs never even took a couple hours to play their own game
It's intentional to pad out the play time of an empty game. like the shit they done patching everything to be slower.
I can't believe people beg for this shit to be added to FFXIV
>lucky hit
what the frick were they smoking when they thought it would be a good idea to add a chance to even roll for a chance for your gear to do anything
It's weird to me how these hyperconditional-chance stats have become so common in the past decade, while if you look at older CRPGs it's all simple full on stats or simple conditions that, if fulfilled, always give the bonus.
In concept, lucky hit chance is good because single-hit skills have higher LHC while multi-hit skills have lower LHC. In practice, stacking LHC on most skills doesn't make sense since Blizzard devs don't fricking know how to balance their own game. For example, on sorcerer LHC procs only make sense or 2 or 3 multi-hit skills like ice shards or lightning ball.
>tfw "0.2% chance to increase acid damage by 5% with 0.1% chance of reducing incoming piercing damage upon inflicting burning condition by hitting enemies with "of cerebral palsy" suffix in the leftmost corner of the map while drinking healing potion" item drops
this only became a thing relatively recently thoughever
this is only possible due to the proliferation of scripting and oop brainrot that didn't exist back in the day
back when you had to hardcode every single skill effect nobody would waste one of their 255 possible effects on 3% more poison damage for 5 seconds after a perfect guard against dragons on a full moon
scripting languages and event driven programming have destroyed rpgs
that's not even true, you can mod in stats like that to games like diablo 2 with only softcoding, it's just that the devs didn't want to create moronic stats
>increases critical hit/headshot damage by X%
>game doesn’t tell you that it’s only increasing the bonus damage, making it almost completely fricking worthless
>When you deal a critical hit there is a % chance to-
Every fricking time. Anyone who ties shit to critical hits when there's no way to actually significantly increase crit chance in the game is the fricking worst. In games like RoR or Cyberpunk where making a 100% crit build is super easy, it's fine, but frick me that shit is god awful in games like Destiny and most looter shooters where crits usually only come from headshots (which are impossible on some enemies) or are just straight up RNG.
>10-20% chance to crit which averages 10-20% more damage
>can be used on a rapid hitting weapon so you still get the effects pretty decently often
i dont see the issue
What, too difficult for you’re zoom zoom brain to read?
If you see a percentage stat don't use it, percentages in coding DO NOT WORK
>20%
>50%
>80%
will always statistically trigger less than what they say, the description text is always wrong and deceiving, percentages aren't even coinflips they are based on algorithms that can't be coded for a percentage to be triggering in a percentile logically, it simply doesn't work.
Only raw added numbers function properly.
What dogshit asshomosexual game is this
Dilator 4?
Yup
>26% chance to reduce cooldowns when you inflict bleeding
alright, seems cool if you have a bleed buil-
>on Elites
aaand it's trash.
there's usually a frickload of elites late game anyway
This is so hyperspecific. You're better off just doing a flat dps increase.
>cooldowns
That explains your shitty items.
What's the problem?
Thats unironically good for mobas and unironically good for RPGs in general
It adds building variety
What are your favorite status effects in games, anons?
getting bonus damage or fat bonus crit chance to all attacks when under 20-30% hp, and either stacking evasive stats or positioning/playing well enough to not get hit
definitely pregnancy
I think you could have chosen a better example. This one can actually fit in a well-designed game. Here's how: this effect, being specific to elites, does not have cost from the normal stat budget. You don't sacrifice competence against non-elite enemies for it. And the elites are tuned past your abilities with the normal stat budget.
Cooldown reduction on hit against elites creates a genuinely good dynamic, requiring you to keep engaged with them to accelerate your abilities, sustain and mitigation/avoidance and damage, instead of falling back on hit-and-run tedium.
>You don't sacrifice competence against non-elite enemies for it. And the elites are tuned past your abilities with the normal stat budget.
Except it does have a cost: that effect is taking up the slot of a better effect
I think that's a unique weapon too, so it's even worse because you're inherently using a suboptimal weapon on top of that.
>This one can actually fit in a well-designed game. Here's how:
That "slot," being outside of the normal effect stat budget, is specific to anti-elite effects, you silly Black person. Sure, you could possibly have a better anti-elite effect, but that's the same conversation as reasonable normal effects being of varying quality.
Nah there's way better things to put in the chest slot. Even a high generic physical damage reduction was better
WHY DOES IT SAY "UP TO" homie THIS ISNT A BLACK FRIDAY SALE
> people actually defending this autism.
season 2 is actually really good
When a game doesn't really have gameplay then it needs shit like this to entertain you, else you might as well play cookie clicker.
Everyone should play BG2 and think about how it did items before they make a video game. When you got a great item, it was actually great.
kino