It's a shame there's no equivalent of M.U.G.E.N. for Real-Time or Turn-Based strategy games.
Get some shitposty multiplayer games where you and the boys meet up for game night, one guy brings in Brotherhood of Nod, someone else pulls in the Eldar, third dude brings in the Franks, and someone goes wildcard to bring in the Project from Warzone 2100. All competing for different resources on a map.
Or could go full hardcore with a different pack where extensive effort is made to get every faction perfectly balanced.
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What would be the game at the core though? Mugen is pretty easy to implement because it's just a 2D fighter using what I imagine is street fighter's base rules. What would be the base game for this? AoE? C&C?
Modularity would probably be king. Spitballing:
There'd be the basics like unit selection and giving at least basic commands such as movement and attacking.
Building Construction would be another one. This could be determined by a configuration line in a faction config file, the options being "free-build", "distance from an already build building" or "no construction". Buildings can have a tag attached in order for them to be restricted to being constructed on certain spots, setup to be able to handle buildings on buildings for Dune or Halo Wars styles.
Unit Construction would be a mandatory include. Another config option, possibly set with "From Building" for stuff like Age of Empires, "From First" or however you would name the C&C style, "From Staging Ground" for ones that bring in units from off-map via a designated zone on map, and "From Attached" for the Halo Wars style.
Could perhaps put in a bunch of modern QoL features like Ctrl+#, and setup an option to disable them in a faction config file for immersion larps.
Map loading would probably be in there. Would want a way to load a preset map or generate a map. Generation should probably be a basic module that could be swapped out, perhaps treated in a similar way to stages. Factions could give a list of resources and they are distributed across the map in "Resource Nodes" that could range from a single Warzone 2100 Oil Well to an Age of Empires Forest. Resources could have a destructible tag so you can destroy trees but not the wells, maybe varying levels of 'hazardous' to different unit types to represent stuff like Tiberium being hazardous to Infantry/Cavalry/etc.
UI would probably look like HTML, button options being stuff like Click to Construct or Click to Queue. They show up on a 'if building clicked on' trigger. Set a box to display X resource.
I mean, ain't that the same case as Mugen itself? There's a ridiculous number of cheap characters out there.
Sounds bad.
*mexibeams you*
>maps have to have resources for all possible gametypes, or game rulesets have to use different resources in their own way
imagine the harvesters from Dune trying to eat Starcraft minerals, or an AoE worker working the Tiberium, or those TA commander mechs starving for metal on Forest Nothing
frick it actually sounds like a fun silly thing, if it's strictly uncompetitive that is. wanted to diss it but managed to do the opposite.
map generation a-la AoE2 could also work, where each faction/ruleset has a "preferred spawn conditions" set for what resources and terrain they usually start with (chokepoints before main base and first natural for starcraft, mexes and flat-ish terrain for TA/Supcom, forests and animals and other resources for AoEs, and so on you get it) and then everything in the middle between the different player starts is "the map" as set by the map maker. The map maker could also tweak how certain factions have their default presets altered (like putting the natural behind the main for starcrafts, or adding geothermal spots for supcom but not having those for their non supcom enemies so a base trade is bad for them, and so on). Sounds like a b***h to implement in an actual game though but fun to think and theorycraft for
I think ideally its more wise to have a pick-and-choose resource system tied to a map with 5-10 different resource groups or less. you actually pick your resource types ahead of time, map populates, costs populates. if shit is fricked the solution is a very similar parameter map with probably one change away, maybe just literally sprite swap or do more reasonable cost/collection type in and avoid even touching what underlies the nominal cost (switch from common resource1 to common resource2 in costs as map generates both). Tiered and valuable resources lie within defensible fields or difficult locations, common resources will be just plain less constrained in gameplay limitations for mappers (i.e. destructible, clearable, activatable, or just to look nice). The intent of the resource is ultimately the most flexible component so might as well utilize that space, it would go a long way to freeing maps from the limitations of factions and produce more realistic feeling maps first before producing better gameplay which frankly isnt pertinent here.
If you have some of the resources of an opponent's faction spawn in the bases of the players, that could cause some fun interactions. If you have Tiberium encroaching on your base, you may want to ally up with a C&C faction who will mine it away and you can mine your resources that spawned in their base. Economies complimenting each other rather than clashing against each other. And when you reach end game and have to fight to see who wins? Absolute chaos because your bases are all mixed in with each other.
>ffa where people cooperate instead of competing
man i wish you were real
in no fricking game with only one possible winner would people start to cooperate when it's possible to cripple others right away.
sometime it happens in some board games like ROOT but those don't have fog of war
>reach end game and have to fight
Whoever is in your base will just kill you and have all your resources to himself at the start. Why do you think otherwise?
OpenRA.
The Cameo mod is visually pretty much what you get from adding random character you like to mugen yourself.
Warcraft3/Starcraft for RTS es. (Not Op, but I can dream too). Or maybe even BFME2, If we want a funny magic system with the faction.
there'd be no balance if I could play any supcomlike while my opponent is stick with AoE or Starcraft factions. Unless of course you make great concessions in balancing or do the boring "first ten minutes no fighting" rule, of course. But at that point we're not playing our factions, we're playing something else.
>It's a shame there's no equivalent of M.U.G.E.N. for Real-Time
That was Total Annihilation in its heyday and TA derived Spring engine now.
Additionally, look into Dominions or Conquest of Elysium for turn based games.
>Dominions
ah yes
I love playing as Hakurei Shrine and making alliances with the Orkz to fight the Ancient Clown menace who are bankrolled by actual rocks from the Hellenika mod
Honk honk, motherfricker.
There is one. A mod for OpenRA called Cameo.
Is there some sort of equivalent of this for turn based games?
Not that I know of
>a fricking warzone 2100 faction?
There are multiple WZ2100
One for each of the games factions (Project, Nexus, Scavs, etc)
There is potential in it. It does need more fantasy/monster factions tho.
Cameo for OpenRA
Kek is that a fricking warzone 2100 faction? I'll have to take a look now.
That's the Terran from Starcraft 1
inherently flawed idea because all of the factions that you've mentioned work on different principles since they come from fundamentally different games.
this isn't an issue for mugen because designing a fighting game's core is incomparably easier and also it's about adding singular characters, not entire factions.
i'm feeling like you're the same OP that's behind the open world rts bullshit.
is this board really just filled with dreamers who don't play games at all?
Yes. The SP game threads should tell you this.
One faction needs fuel from controlpoints/"rafineries" and gold from "mines"
Other needs to mine resourcefields and fish for food in "waters".
Third needs to cut down trees for lumber, and hunt in game mobs for food.
And the map is having none of that bullshit.
In essence all the factions would need to arbitrarily have a way of producing their own resources regardless of what's on the map like in Creeper world (3 i think), but then why have a map in the first place (for the chokepoints I guess)
In order for this to work, all civs would have to be bound to a unified set of mechanics. You can have ones that lightly subvert it, like how meso civs in aoe2 use gold to access a midgame light cav equivalent, but if you gen a map and have to account for there being 5-10 different sets of resources with differing strategic roles, even a small discount somewhere in this frickhuge ether will ruin things.
RTS games just differ too much for this to be (easily) feasible. You'll get something worse than a hard counter when you have swordsmen fighting starships and nuclear bombs dropping on farm ecos.
You generate the map after players choose their civs, so you can just spawn their preferred resources. Not easy, but doable.
you effectively eliminate resource control as a strategy aspect. once their special resources run out, the game's over for them.
>once their special resources run out, the game's over for them
option A just make all resources infinite (but limit gather rate)
option B frick balance in the spirit of MUGEN
So you're saying that some forces would be mechanically incentivized to bring the fight earlier in the game while others are incentivized towards holdout strategies to take advantage of their opponents weakening?
it applies to literally everyone, though.
if starcraft's minerals spawn near starcraft factions, that's the only minerals they're getting. once they dry out, starcraft factions are in sudden death mode.
if starcraft's minerals spawn near age of empires factions who also get wood and food everywhere else because of how these resources work in their games, they're winning from the get go.
and now dawn of war factions just need to place generators at their bases, effectively not forcing them to participate in the race, unless you'd implement strategic points all over the map, but that would force them and only them to capture said points and giving benefits to non-dow factions after capturing them would essentially turn it against them.
this idea just doesn't work and the sooner you realize it, the better.
Universe at War already had factions that only gather resources from the map, and a faction that generates them infinitely by just sitting around. It didn't exactly become the new Starcraft, but it worked.
If only SEGA gave this game at least miniscule advertisement
Or you just make it so that all resources are on the map at the same time, but only harvestable with the right miner.
Resources that does the same thing is just a skin variation for certain map themes.
-OreMinerals and similar pick up the currency on the floor resources are treated as the same, with AoEGold being handwaved into this category. Tiberium is a map hazard that Tib factions can mine in addition to ore/AOEgold/minerals.
Carbon/Wood/SCminerals is just you chopping down trees/smashing special rocks on space maps.
-Vespene Gas/WCgold/Oil/AOErock is just a small hill/mountain that you build a mine on/enter/hit with a pickaxe.
-C&C Electicity is just supply and housing for the other factions that use that, but instead of having their production speed just lowered, the other factions get their speed reduced to -10000%
-Special Flora, and Fauna is food if your faction gives a frick about harvesting that. The AOE villagers are gonna act like the chinese, and butcher those tiberium beasts and serve them to their families.
-WC3 upkeep is mega gay and not invited.
-TA/SupCom/PA/ect only build buildings for their shit, Mass = Carbon and is also what you get small doses for scavanging husks/trees, while power would just be gold or something as I don't remember powerloss being a thing. Don't really matter as they wouldn't be able to capture or be captured by anyone else's stuff.
Tooltips/voice lines/text/hud icons would match the faction ofcourse.
>AoE vills having a monopoly on food resource spawns
>Getting defensive structure inputs from Vespene deposits
>Harvesting a resource debuffs you
SC factions suddenly needing resource dropoffs and having no walls
>
>AoE vills having a monopoly on food resource spawns
Nah, they spawn everywhere, you can just shoot the animals and berry bushes as the other factions if you want to spend time denying them to the AOE-likes. I just though of something, WC3 style neutral-hostile "creeps" are also food resources for the AOE dudes. Full bugman!
>Getting defensive structure inputs from Vespene deposits
What? Clearify what you mean by this.
>SC factions suddenly needing resource dropoffs and having no walls
Yes and? That is how they have always worked.
>Nah, they spawn everywhere, you can just shoot the animals and berry bushes as the other factions if you want to spend time denying them to the AOE-likes.
I'm talking about it being a resource certain factions can't use. Setting up a large part of the game on the assumption of resource laming will be hell to balance.
>Clarify
Stone is used for ealls, tower, castles, and town centers in aoe2
>That is how they have always worked.
They would need walls for this sort of game, and they don't have varied dropoffs to take resources with. They'd have to spam worker production buildings.
>I'm talking about it being a resource certain factions can't use.
So what?
>Setting up a large part of the game on the assumption of resource laming will be hell to balance.
It isn't set up assuming that, it would be set up allowing for that.
>Stone is used for (w)ealls, tower, castles, and town centers in aoe2
Yeah and? They are tearing down the deposits and taking the stone. Stone always spawn close by in AOE 1/2.
>They would need walls for this sort of game
No they wouldn't, this isn't about translating SC into AOE, it is about "porting" the games as faitfully as possible, while keeping the resource types needed for the factions sensible.
>and they don't have varied dropoffs to take resources with. They'd have to spam worker production buildings.
They need two harvestable resources(min and vesp) and one producable (popcap), and in their base game they spam worker production buildings or move them(terran). If you think this is a problem, take it up with Blizzard then, that is how those factions work.
your last line clearly shows that you don't understand why it's a bad idea and looks like it's beyond explaining.
Oh great megamind, if only we were as mentally uplifted as your soaring brain. Alas, we are but brainlets when compared to the universe that exists between your ears!
This is a thread about a MUGEN-like RTS, not your e-sports perfectly balanced folded a hundred times fantasy or whatever the frick you want.
>It isn't set up assuming that, it would be set up allowing for that.
The assumption has to be made, else food-using civs will be functionally unplayable. Their enemies will lame at every given opportunity.
>Yeah and?
And that means SC tech potential can be taken out by a self-supporting tower creep resource. Age civ meta would be to drop towers on your mineral line, then harvest said minerals to continue dropping towers.
>No they wouldn't
Then there's a compatibility issue, and you'll have to balance M@A around SC civs being unable to wall in resources.
>If you think this is a problem, take it up with Blizzard
Blizzard isn't trying to make multiple factions play nicely together as in MUGEN.
MUGEN works because you port archetypes to the game. You're trying to port characters and their systems over 1:1. It won't work without an underlying system at its center, providing a baseline for every imported "faction" (archetype-function bundle).
*Harvest said vespene
>MUGEN works because you port archetypes to the game. You're trying to port characters and their systems over 1:1. It won't work without an underlying system at its center, providing a baseline for every imported "faction" (archetype-function bundle).
You have clearly never played MUGEN if you think anything is remotely balanced unless you stick to the default character or play autist total conversion mods that just recreates a single game 1-2-1. I dont give a shit about muh balance.
>The assumption has to be made, else food-using civs will be functionally unplayable. Their enemies will lame at every given opportunity.
>And that means SC tech potential can be taken out by a self-supporting tower creep resource. Age civ meta would be to drop towers on your mineral line, then harvest said minerals to continue dropping towers.
I, uh what? So AOE is both unplayable and a no-win opponent for a SC faction? The same SC factions that can build flying troop transports?
>Then there's a compatibility issue, and you'll have to balance M@A around SC civs being unable to wall in resources.
Nyet, rifle is fine.
Why would anyone make/play an unbalanced game?
I dunno, people still play chess.
Because it is fun!
mugen is a shitpost game where you can import a stickman and make him op, but for some reason people like to make them actually equal and playable.
main issue with a mugen rts is that you're not importing 1 characters but entire fricking factions from fundamentally different games mechanically.
it's just not feasible without taking away some of those core mechanics.
Exactly what I've been saying.
>mugen is a shitpost game where you can import a stickman and make him op, but for some reason people like to make them actually equal and playable.
They also like to make ridiculously powerful "cheapies" to the point that a tier list of power levels was devised depending on how exactly different groups of them worked. Because people can go to any end of the spectrum of balanced vs overpowered they want because it lets them do whatever they want with them.
Right now the copyright/human mentality too shitty to allow that "Super Smash RTS" project to happen.
Could planetwar total war and ultimate epic battle simulator count?
*come close
Also adding Super Robot Wars
SRW is an official crossover product, while Mugen is make your own Super Street Brothers: Kombat Gear Starring Goku and Knuckles from Family May Cry.
>not a single person mentioned Rusted Warfare yet
This is the closest you'll get OP. Base game is like a C&C total anhilation mashed and the modding community is crazy. They've recreated Command & Conquer in its entirety for Skirmish among many other games
If you don't mind the overall jankiness and inbalance, Rusted Warfare offers a decent platform for this kind of stuff. Not to mention, it wouldn't be too hard to just modify the code.
Picrel: ants fighting xenomorphs with not-orcs after wiping out not-protoss from the match.