It's bad game design when you pretty much can't avoid some deaths without knowing what's ahead in advance. Forced difficulty is not fun.
It's bad game design when you pretty much can't avoid some deaths without knowing what's ahead in advance.
It's bad game design when you pretty much can't avoid some deaths without knowing what's ahead in advance. Forced difficulty is not fun.
>It's bad game design when you pretty much can't avoid some deaths without knowing what's ahead in advance.
Literally only the part with Seath does this and no one defends that. It doesn't exist otherwise.
You fukkin with me? There's a ton of bullshit traps and scripted moments that you can't possibly know about in advance. How are you supposed to know a fire breathing bastard will appear in .5 seconds after walking onto a bridge and roast you without dying once before?
>How are you supposed to know a fire breathing bastard will appear in .5 seconds after walking onto a bridge and roast you without dying once before?
By paying attention and not rushing ahead like a moron.
yeah no fricking way you would ever approach things in such a calculated way without prompt, you're not a fricking jojo character you just played that section already.
>anon cant comprehend that not everyone plays games like a mindless moron who rushes in like he does
absolutely no fricking chance you play like a stutter stepping homosexual on EVERY fricking ground pixel, there's no defending bullshit being forced on the player.
Yeah we only do it when there's something to be cautious about, like when you discover a long bridge with enemies, burn marks and charred corpses, while having encountered the dragon in the level beforehand. Sorry you ran in too fast and weren't smart enough to pick up on all this anon.
Not that a on but you don't see that shit until you get closer, frick off. People don't stop and take detailed looks at every area in front of them before stepping forward. You don't notice that shit on the bridge until you're on it, especially with how the camera hides it at first.
Yeah and it turns out you don't have to walk that far into the bridge to see it, as that video demonstrates and proves you wrong.
>no no a visual cue that the area right in front of you is potentially dangerous isn't good enough, I need to know the WHOLE bridge is dangerous specifically or else there's no reason to be cautious!
Weird cope.
There are undead soldiers manning the position and not a single dead body. All it tells you is that there's a catapult guy hiding somewhere who's going to bomb that area in front of the soldiers. You see burn marks in sen's castle and that's where the canonballs drop. A dragon doesn't appear out of nowhere to burn everything.
Except you were already shown a dragon beforehand. There's a precedent. You have a reason to be cautious when seeing burn marks, it doesn't matter what you assume it to be from. Mentioning Sen's is nonsense since no one has seen Sen's at all at that point of the game.
Yes, but being at a low HP state such that you die in a single hit is nonetheless no one's fault but the player's.
>A dragon doesn't appear out of nowhere to burn everything
>doesn't appear out of nowhere
>out of nowhere
>nowhere
Oh shit, I should've kept my eye on the drake that is literally programmed to spawn out of thin air
That "video" is fricking designed to make those look like the actions of a normal player. They are NOT. You can't see fricking SHIT on the floor as you enter the bridge, go look at that video again. A normal person would see corpses in the distance, go check it out, MAYBE realize those are there for a reason, and then fricking die because the dragon's breath reaches way farther than it should. And then, are are there undead there? Why aren't they dead, and just standing guard forever, if that place gets burnt all the time? It's fricking stupid.
>I don't play games like that therefore no one else does
Every time.
>I'm going to pretend people play action video games to slowly walk around and stop at every bridge. Just like how they show it on all the game trailers. And every game play demonstration ever.
You're a fricking idiot.
Forever relevant
You're comparing a button on the floor that is obvious to a poorly designed section of the game and calling it the same thing because you can't discuss this game at a level past "get good". People like you are why games don't improve. Stop sucking so much dick.
Other people found the danger on the bridge to be obvious. Your problem is you refuse to believe these people exist.
>People don't stop and take detailed looks at every area in front of them before stepping forward
And those people shouldn't be playing videogames because they're bad at them.
Dribbling idiot detected. Why even bother playing video games when you give zero shits about anything but "number go up"
Even if the player is able to logically deduce that the dragon is going to attack on the bridge, that doesn't give them the means to predict when it will happen or the best solution. The trigger for the dragon is invisible, after all. Even in your example, the character was a half-second away from taking damage. If they had walked a single step further, hesitated for a brief moment, turned the camera to look for the dragon, held up any shield, or ran straight back to where Solaire was, they most likely would have gotten hit or even killed by the dragon. The timing is very tight.
Its not that tight. The trigger is walking past the point right at :08, and after that it takes a full 4 seconds to happen. The difficulty of getting back to safety is equivalent to how far out you ran and how fast. The slower you approach it, the more likely you'll run away unscathed.
And running back where you came from is just a natural thing to do.
>pick up a pepper for the first time
>you haven't been told what it is or what it tastes like
>you examine it and don't really see much to be immediately worried about
>even before the taste hits your mouth you can immediately decipher that it's spicy as frick and spit it out
Yeah moron you definitely do not have this approach toward everything.
>you examine it and don't really see much to be immediately worried about
Doesn't apply to the dragon bridge.
>Doesn't apply to the dragon bridge.
The undead soldiers are holding their positions there, looking completely fine and unharmed.
Yes at the other end of the bridge, not at the end closest to you with the burn marks and charred corpses.
And yet, the dragon breathes fire over the entire bridge, not just over the burnt section.
The visual cue in that part sucks ass and makes no sense whatsoever. It's just a cheap way to lure the player to a cheap death - something that this game does quite a lot. DS1 relies on too many cheap fall deaths as well. DS2 doesn't do any of that shit because it's an objectively better designed game.
So what? Right in front of you where you can see it is all the warning and visual cue you need. If it were all the way in the back of the bridge then you'd just be complaining about it being impossible to notice back there.
> Right in front of you where you can see it is all the warning and visual cue you need
lmfao what kind of moronic defence is this
There are burn marks in a specific area, everything up ahead looks unburnt and there are undead soldiers holding a defensive position, and you're supposed to infer that the entire bridge is going to be on fire? That's cat mario/IWBTG tier moronation at best.
>dragon lands directly in your fricking path at the beginning of undead burg
>"woah, a dragon!"
>beat taurus demon
>confronted with a big, empty bridge covered in scorch marks
>dragon flies in from behind, but gives you time to hear the sound cue of its wings beating
>developer message saying "drake ahead" if you use the guidance miracle
>if you've played Demon's Souls, you know what's coming even if you miss every hint other than the dragon appearing at the beginning of undead burg
>if you fall for it, all you "suffer" is a 3-minute walk back to this point in the level
It's 20-fricking-23, anyone who is STILL arguing against this should be assumed to be making a bad faith argument for the sake of starting an actual Dark Souls thread
>developer message saying "drake ahead" if you use the guidance miracle
Holy shit really?
>if you fall for it, all you "suffer" is a 3-minute walk back to this point in the level
Wrong, if you fall for it all you suffer is some damage, because its not a one shot anyway.
It's following a boss without any bonfire, so if you're a new player you might not be at full health, or even completely out of estus.
The only actual bullshit in DS1 is
>Nito impaling you when take a quick sippy after falling into his house
Because there's no way to know that EEEEEEEEE means you're going to get a gravelord sword up the ass in a second. Even the floor collapsing in the Bed of Chaos fight is telegraphed by the floor collapsing above the chaos eater pit directly below the fog gate.
>Holy shit really?
Yes, but no one uses guidance.
>Wrong...
Doesn't the fire do enough damage to kill you in 2 hits, and lasts long enough to do 2 hits?
>Doesn't the fire do enough damage to kill you in 2 hits, and lasts long enough to do 2 hits?
No, there's two components, the breath itself, and the fire on the floor. If you only get hit by the fire on the floor, you get knocked down in a very long but also invulnerable animation.
It's a oneshot if you stand directly on top of the scorch mark in the center of the bridge where the dragon starts his strafe run. If you're further onto the bridge or on the sides it does less damage and if you do the correct thing and sprint towards the cover on the middle of the bridge, then you get tickled.
nobody replying to this is mentioning the dragon attack doesnt even do lethal damage. You can tank it and run back/forward in time.
That breath isn't even enough to kill you anyway.
Not strong enough to kill people who read a guide that told them to pump vitality early*
Wrong, its not a one shot even if you never level vitality. You would know this if you actually played the game and weren't a shitposter.
>skill issue
I think he means dark souls 2 guys
The first breath from the Dragon on THAT Bridge in DS does not kill you.
What does that have to do with the OP? The drake can't even kill you unless you stand right next to the charred corpses
i'm sure miyazaki will read this thread and reconsider
Hi guys, Miyazaki here.
I am reconsidering.
>Forced difficulty
The word is "artificial difficulty".
>without knowing in advance
Name four encounters.
I kinda have to agree with you. I feel like Cuphead is the best example of fair difficulty, where you can realistically beat a boss in your first try if you are sufficiently skilled, even if it's a very difficult fight. It's not overly reliant on memorization / trial and error.
>It's bad game design
why?
> Forced difficulty is not fun
according to whom?
>he played without player messages
oh no no no
Cylical death and resurrection are canon in Dark Souls. A game that doesn't prepare the player character reasonably enough to face the progressively difficult challenges is a bad game only if the canon of the game has no plausibility for the protagonist to successfully overcome them.
If you homosexuals like dying without a chance so much, why don't you want an enemy with a million health that teleports to you and kills you in one hit all the time? Dying is fun right?
Correct. And hiding enemies around corner is cheap and shitty too, something they did a lot in this one. With all that said though, this game still fricking rules.
you can avoid them ahead of time once you get the Dark Wood Grain Ring/have 50 vit
t. guy who's never died to centipede demon(and gaping dragon but that was before leveling or getting good gear)
Here's the hottest take of all:
You lose nothing when you die permanently, period, just time, so getting frustrated over a death is like getting frustrated over any other part of the level period. In fact, it's dumber, because you will naturally optimize and speed up the parts you redo, so the time loss gets smaller each time. In fact, deaths can be an indirect benefit so long as you improve each time, because you get more souls net compared to someone who does it all in one go.
It is part of the intended experience to die occasionally - it teaches you lessons, gives you mechanical benefits, and even gives you more resources, you've just drilled it into your head as some sort of permanent failure state that you cannot overcome it and learn the benefits.
How does it feel to be a fool, anon?
You are correct. I find it fascinating how afraid some players are of dying. You see it a lot in invasions.
Its the same morons who think games should "respect my time", as if dying in a video game somehow invalidates all the fun they're having. They are people who don't actually like video games.
Out-fricking-played
Spoken like a true jobless friendless basement dweller.
Where do you think you are?
Some "respect my time" arguments are solid.
Using that argument implying that dying means you should never have to redo shit is a moron.
a video game should constantly have flashing colorful lights and noises and repeatedly tell me I'm winning and that I'm a good player and that the other players are not as clever as me.
the gameplay, story and everything else is secondary to the video game beeping a lot.
This isn't a hot take. No one does into these games expecting not to die at all you gay. Its just sloppy on the devs side when deaths come from nowhere.
Not only does the dragon telegraph its entrance both with sound and visual cues on the floor, the fire doesn't even fricking kill you.
And if it did, my entire post still applies. Deaths do not matter. Why do they bother you?
I'm not arguing with someone who asks "Why do deaths in a video game bother you?" You think you sound enlightened when you really sound like a fricking moronic who doesn't understand the most basic parts of video games. Go ask a game dev why deaths that feel undeserved as bad in games. I'm sure they'll respond with "I don't care, it doesn't matter". It's like you'll say literally anything to defend something shitty because a game you like can have no faults and every criticism people throw at it are actually hidden features that everyone should just enjoy because that's just how things are.
There are no undeserved deaths in Dark Souls besides the one to Seathe which is just an explanation for how you end up in prison
The Seath one would be completely forgivable if it weren't for the fact that he can curse you.
That's why rare rings of sacrifice exist, but anyway, I don't know how you'd get cursed there besides having absurdly low curse resistance or intentionally healing yourself so that curse will trigger, he does far more HP damage than curse damage. Plus you can just leave.
>you can just leave.
What?
You can just turn around and leave and come back with curse resistance/a rare ring.
The fog door doesn't actually close.
Which is perhaps the big hint that this isn't a normal boss encounter.
Oh, Dark Souls has faults. Mostly in that there's a lot of dead-end content that has no satisfying payoff and things like that. But if you can't handle rounding a corner and having a giant ass skeleton punt you off a ledge, (one of my favorite sneaky kills in the game) then why are you even here? There are other games that do what souls games do with much less friction and spite, and I'm not even saying that as a negative. This is like getting pissy about Factorio for not being in 3D when Satisfactory is right there, or that Rimworld has no depth when Dwarf Fortress exists. Conversely to your post about how I apparently view the game without fault (I don't, this game has weaknesses that are well and widely known) you're only here to stir up shit with a thread that's been done before again and again.
And each time it's refuted with the simple knowledge that you simply don't like playing the game. You view it as a chore, so anything that makes you do it more is a hindrance.
Repeating the same thing over and over is boring. People don't play video games to do mundane, repetitive tasks - you can get enough of that at your daily 9 to 5.
>playing a video game is boring, I just want to experience it and get it over it so I canmove on to the next game
Yep, called it:
I liked all other games where I don't have to repeat things, though. Only dark souls bored me, and it's the only game to have this sort of thing in it. Sounds like dark souls design is just shit.
Yes you like bad "games", we know.
So, every game that isn't dark souls (or a clone) is bad? That's 99.999% of the games out there. Sounds like you're the one who doesn't actually like video games.
don't show this guy shmups, he'll lose it
You clearly mean DS2, then. DS1 is not like that.
There's no logic to half the got'cha moments in DS2, especially SotFS
>oh, look, a piece of treasure on a narrow walkway what an obvious trap
>walk up
>pick up enemy
>fricking FOUR enemies drop down from an unseen ledge and corner you
>if you logically react with caution, instead of sprinting / jumping in the direction of the enemies, you're now cornered
>multiple starting classes will still have a shit tier weapon at this point if you miss the fire longsword and struggle to out-damage just four weak enemies
Just insane
The "difficulty" comes from forcing you to backtrack 10 minutes to the boss. Very cheap design.
True but its not like there are massive consequences for death in this game.
You shouldnt be hoarding massive amounts of souls in the first place.
No it isn't.
There's almost 0 punishment for dying in Dark Souls.
The WORST thing that will happen to you is losing humanity to return to human.
The problem is your ego thinking you should never die in a game. You think you're too good to fail and you equate dying with failure.
Dying is failure. Don't be stupid.
>It's bad game design when you pretty much can't avoid some deaths without knowing what's ahead in advance.
Such as? Besides the scripted death with Seath where you can just quit/homeward bone/leave if you really don't want to die at that very moment and come back with a ring of sacrifice if you really want to do a "deathless" run.
?t=9821
This is how I imagine every "you can totally tell the dragon will burn you" player is when they're totally seeing a game for the first time.
I've always hated the stamina bar
I agree
But this isn't the place to discuss this
Ganker is a dark souls board rather than a videogames board
It may as well be reddit because both places love dark souls just as much
>agreeing with a factually incorrect opinion
Dying isn't a bad thing, though, it's just a part of the game. It's arbitrary.
no because the summoning and messaging system are intended features
>noooo I how was I supposed to know about XYZ
by not stealing the game and being stuck playing offline.
>noooo when the message said dragon ahead I thought it was friendly REEEEE this is reddit this is memes!
No. Failing is part of the learning process
I tried this game after Elden Ring, I only died like 20 times (Like 10 of those deaths were because of that dogshit bed of chaos boss) because of how predictable some of the traps were the whole "Souls series is so hard" meme is so fricking pointless nowadays