Depends. Gameplay shpuld always come first, but the context that story provides imo has a multiplicative effect. It's useless on it's own, but the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts
The best stories are ones that integrate gameplay as a core part of it like nier, as opposed to movie games that just rewind time until you do the setpiece correctly.
I like gameplay more when I care about the context. I actually really like playing rpgmaker, and it's really hard not to just railroad everything when you have a story in mind.
story in an abstract sense is useful for designing levels and gameplay. The era of oddball level design and gameplay is pretty much over.
Depends on the game genre, but realistically both are very important and some devs just cope at being shit at one or the other by pretending both aren't necessary
In order from most important to least: gameplay>music>story>graphics
All true but I'd say
Gameplay > music = story > graphics
What I mean is that the story is integrated into the gameplay, things like getting a game over after - that part - because in the story you can't back up your data to YorHa anymore, or the twist with 9s' shmup sections at the end of part E, stuff like that.
The quality of the story itself isn't what I'm talking about, I mean is it actually integral to the gameplay itself in a way that isn't just an item description or a roped off area of space to fight in.
Most games, particularly sony movie games, can boil their combat sections down to a line on the page saying "they fight" and it could be nothing more than a dustcloud out of looney tunes for how much it actually matters.
Depends on the game genre, but realistically both are very important and some devs just cope at being shit at one or the other by pretending both aren't necessary
Pretty much this. The industry has been emphasizing the story at least for a decade now and it has gotten to the point, where gameplay has gone worse. It feels like any half-assed game with bad gameplay and mediocre story gets automatically praised as goty.
story is like graphics
it's nice to have good graphics, and sometimes bad graphics can hurt a game a lot. But a good game can be good even with minimalist graphics, and won't be hurt by it.
Story, graphics, sound, etc all feed into the gameplay by leveraging their unique ways to give the player information. Story gives context to why the big frick demon is there and what he might do. The graphics lets you know he's the big demon with a huge hammer. The animation and sound let you know when big evil demon is gonna hit you. Gameplay is the exchange of information going out to the player and how they react to it, but that information has to be fed through a medium which has to be at least one of graphics, story, sound, etc. Claims that gameplay is more important than story/graphics/music doesn't make sense as gameplay can't exist without them.
Depends entirely on the game. I don't mind pure arcade gameplay, story-first games, everything in-between, and any weird experients out there. The only thing's important is having some clear vision and realize it well enough. If that vision is having a good story with the interactive elements only being present for immersion purposes, so be it.
Something like a AAA Sony game fails not because it tries to tell stories instead of gameplay, but because it doesn't go hard enough in either direction, resulting in an unispired work (not saying that story+gameplay can't be done well, though).
Basically I don't mind anything from platformers to action games to point'n'clicks to VNs as long as it's done well. Something like Space Funeral left a huge imprint on my memory despite being like 40 minutes long and having basically no gameplay to speak of, and I still consider the experience immensely valuable.
People need to learn the difference between story and plot.
Everything you do in a game is the "story" of the game, even if said game doesn't really have a plot.
Soul Sacrifice is one of my go to example sof a game that does characters and story well at the cost of gameplay that still manages to be an enjoyable experience the entire way through. I'd recommend the game to anybody so I can't really subscribe to the notion that games can't be good if the gameplay isn't good. Sometimes the gameplay can be serviceable if the characters and story are excellent.
I read hentai purely for story
I practically skim the actual sex for the beginning and end unless there is really good dialogue happening during the act
It depends on the game. I've been watching a lot of brother sister porn recently and if the relationship isn't believable the sex just doesn't do it for me.
In terms of FPS, you don't want just a shooting gallery, no Doom or Wolfenstein was ever that, the narrative is shooting demons.
I think most people like incest because it creates a narrative, a connection between two people and some interesting plot implications, not because they want to frick one of their relatives/parents.
Objectively yes, Games have no need for stories and their inclusion is for normalgays who don't like video games. Gameplay without a story is a video game still, a story without gameplay is just a fricking book. Frick story and frick everything that isn't gameplay.
The truth that Ganker doesn't want to admit is that "movie" games aren't just western pozzed games with ugly female protags. It encompasses EVERY SINGLE GAME THAT HAS TOO MUCH STORY. A game could have a billion trillion hours of gameplay, with one tiny fraction of a second spent on cutscenes, but if you would ever describe that cutscene as "vital to the experience" then the entire game has to be discarded as bad. I'm sorry anons, but this includes your precious waifu JRPGs. You don't want to admit it, but they're one of the biggest predecessors to the modern day movie game. TLOU and Uncharted wouldn't exist if it wasn't for cinematic hogwash like Dragon quest or Final Fantasy. You cannot list a single good thing from these games, because they are reliant on bad things just to function, like cutscenes and exposition and dialogue and talking characters.
Now, I know you're going to dredge up your list of anime games and say "well, this one is different, it's about miyuko-chan saving the world with love and friendship". Well, ask yourself this: is there a segment of the game where the characters are fighting, but you're not taking part? Are you given a choice, but the game decides that your choice doesn't matter and funnels you into one answer regardless? Are there sidequests dedicated solely to "expanding the lore"?
There are some games that blend story with gameplay, where you have to pay attention to what's happening instead of just holding down a button. There are games which are entirely about the story, but still choose to be games because the medium is better to tell that story, like Myst or Star Control.
But then there are homosexuals like OP who baitpost when Carmack was talking about story in DOOM and other FPSes, so in that context Carmack is right, but the correct answer is "It depends".
Nah
When I'm reading my doujin, the satisfaction of the porn itself (the "gameplay") is of course the highest consideration, but the dialog or scenarios can really elevate it to a higher level, and could even save otherwise mediocre porn.
He's right that this sentiment is mirrored in vidya though.
Yes. This isn't to say games can't have a good and compelling story, but 9/10 times a game with good gameplay and bad or non-existing story will beat a game with good story but bad or non-existing gameplay
Depends. Gameplay shpuld always come first, but the context that story provides imo has a multiplicative effect. It's useless on it's own, but the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts
The best stories are ones that integrate gameplay as a core part of it like nier, as opposed to movie games that just rewind time until you do the setpiece correctly.
I like gameplay more when I care about the context. I actually really like playing rpgmaker, and it's really hard not to just railroad everything when you have a story in mind.
All true but I'd say
Gameplay > music = story > graphics
>a concise, smart post on Ganker during summer
>The best stories are ones that integrate gameplay as a core part of it
Yes
>like nier
No
What I mean is that the story is integrated into the gameplay, things like getting a game over after - that part - because in the story you can't back up your data to YorHa anymore, or the twist with 9s' shmup sections at the end of part E, stuff like that.
The quality of the story itself isn't what I'm talking about, I mean is it actually integral to the gameplay itself in a way that isn't just an item description or a roped off area of space to fight in.
Most games, particularly sony movie games, can boil their combat sections down to a line on the page saying "they fight" and it could be nothing more than a dustcloud out of looney tunes for how much it actually matters.
story in an abstract sense is useful for designing levels and gameplay. The era of oddball level design and gameplay is pretty much over.
Depends on the game genre, but realistically both are very important and some devs just cope at being shit at one or the other by pretending both aren't necessary
Porn without story is worthless so he's pretty much saying Doom sucks
>Porn without story is worthless
Well he didn't imply that if you read the quote.
>It's expected to be there
In order from most important to least: gameplay>music>story>graphics
Pretty much this. The industry has been emphasizing the story at least for a decade now and it has gotten to the point, where gameplay has gone worse. It feels like any half-assed game with bad gameplay and mediocre story gets automatically praised as goty.
story is like graphics
it's nice to have good graphics, and sometimes bad graphics can hurt a game a lot. But a good game can be good even with minimalist graphics, and won't be hurt by it.
Story, graphics, sound, etc all feed into the gameplay by leveraging their unique ways to give the player information. Story gives context to why the big frick demon is there and what he might do. The graphics lets you know he's the big demon with a huge hammer. The animation and sound let you know when big evil demon is gonna hit you. Gameplay is the exchange of information going out to the player and how they react to it, but that information has to be fed through a medium which has to be at least one of graphics, story, sound, etc. Claims that gameplay is more important than story/graphics/music doesn't make sense as gameplay can't exist without them.
For some games the story is more important to me.
Depends entirely on the game. I don't mind pure arcade gameplay, story-first games, everything in-between, and any weird experients out there. The only thing's important is having some clear vision and realize it well enough. If that vision is having a good story with the interactive elements only being present for immersion purposes, so be it.
Something like a AAA Sony game fails not because it tries to tell stories instead of gameplay, but because it doesn't go hard enough in either direction, resulting in an unispired work (not saying that story+gameplay can't be done well, though).
Basically I don't mind anything from platformers to action games to point'n'clicks to VNs as long as it's done well. Something like Space Funeral left a huge imprint on my memory despite being like 40 minutes long and having basically no gameplay to speak of, and I still consider the experience immensely valuable.
People need to learn the difference between story and plot.
Everything you do in a game is the "story" of the game, even if said game doesn't really have a plot.
Soul Sacrifice is one of my go to example sof a game that does characters and story well at the cost of gameplay that still manages to be an enjoyable experience the entire way through. I'd recommend the game to anybody so I can't really subscribe to the notion that games can't be good if the gameplay isn't good. Sometimes the gameplay can be serviceable if the characters and story are excellent.
is a famously austistic programmer right for not understanding the oldest tradition our species has? real toughie to figure that one out
No.
I read hentai purely for story
I practically skim the actual sex for the beginning and end unless there is really good dialogue happening during the act
Are you me?
That's an outdated take.
He said "story in a game like Doom".
It depends on the game. I've been watching a lot of brother sister porn recently and if the relationship isn't believable the sex just doesn't do it for me.
He's literally wrong on both fronts. Story and context in porn, if done well, can make it so much hotter
In terms of FPS, you don't want just a shooting gallery, no Doom or Wolfenstein was ever that, the narrative is shooting demons.
I think most people like incest because it creates a narrative, a connection between two people and some interesting plot implications, not because they want to frick one of their relatives/parents.
Objectively yes, Games have no need for stories and their inclusion is for normalgays who don't like video games. Gameplay without a story is a video game still, a story without gameplay is just a fricking book. Frick story and frick everything that isn't gameplay.
No? I have not watched porn with a story in years
correct
I like plot with porn more than porn with plot
The truth that Ganker doesn't want to admit is that "movie" games aren't just western pozzed games with ugly female protags. It encompasses EVERY SINGLE GAME THAT HAS TOO MUCH STORY. A game could have a billion trillion hours of gameplay, with one tiny fraction of a second spent on cutscenes, but if you would ever describe that cutscene as "vital to the experience" then the entire game has to be discarded as bad. I'm sorry anons, but this includes your precious waifu JRPGs. You don't want to admit it, but they're one of the biggest predecessors to the modern day movie game. TLOU and Uncharted wouldn't exist if it wasn't for cinematic hogwash like Dragon quest or Final Fantasy. You cannot list a single good thing from these games, because they are reliant on bad things just to function, like cutscenes and exposition and dialogue and talking characters.
Now, I know you're going to dredge up your list of anime games and say "well, this one is different, it's about miyuko-chan saving the world with love and friendship". Well, ask yourself this: is there a segment of the game where the characters are fighting, but you're not taking part? Are you given a choice, but the game decides that your choice doesn't matter and funnels you into one answer regardless? Are there sidequests dedicated solely to "expanding the lore"?
Say it with me. Cinematic experience.
>but if you would ever describe that cutscene as "vital to the experience" then the entire game has to be discarded as bad
Frick off ACgay
gesdujkl
Not entirely but I'll take it over full storygays every single time
yes he is correct and always will be
context from story really adds to a game, problem is some dev forgot about the game part
There are some games that blend story with gameplay, where you have to pay attention to what's happening instead of just holding down a button. There are games which are entirely about the story, but still choose to be games because the medium is better to tell that story, like Myst or Star Control.
But then there are homosexuals like OP who baitpost when Carmack was talking about story in DOOM and other FPSes, so in that context Carmack is right, but the correct answer is "It depends".
Nah
When I'm reading my doujin, the satisfaction of the porn itself (the "gameplay") is of course the highest consideration, but the dialog or scenarios can really elevate it to a higher level, and could even save otherwise mediocre porn.
He's right that this sentiment is mirrored in vidya though.
It's just his opinion. Video games don't have to follow some arbitrary set of design rules.
Yes. This isn't to say games can't have a good and compelling story, but 9/10 times a game with good gameplay and bad or non-existing story will beat a game with good story but bad or non-existing gameplay
Imagine a doujin with no story.
Imagine playing a porn game that is literally just a slideshow of images.
He is right and this thread is the proof of it.
Bunches of tldr that are missing the point.