ITT elegantly designed videogames
I love how simple, compact, and "tight" A Link to the Past is, four directions of movement, real time combat, a couple items for the feeling of progression, a couple different weapons that change how you approach the game, there's very little pointless excess in it
I also love BOTW but the amount of disposable weapons and pointless items and foods and doodads and pausing the game during action to execute moves and the stamina bar and crafting etc is so far from this elegant approach and reminds me of things I hate in MMOs and open world games, I think ALTTP's game flow is much nicer
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The Spyro trilogy is similar, you can shoot flame breath, charge with your horns, and glide with your wings, and every problem in the game is solved by doing one of those three things. There are temporary upgrades in certain levels that let you shoot infinite range fireballs, make you dash faster and hit harder, and fly anywhere instead of just gliding from high to low i.e. those same three actions except better.
No items, no XP, no levels, once you get used to the movement/combat scheme, it's all about getting better with it, and all three actions chain so nicely and seamlessly into each other, it feels so well rounded like you can't add or remove anything to it.
Spyro worship is cope for losers who didn't have Mario
Get over it
Thanks for beta testing
Mario64lets seething that their tech demo is ugly and clunky with lots of pointless excess, useless moves, and dumb powerups
>he's unironically saying that baby game spyro is better designed than super mario 64
There's wrong, and then there's delusional.
I mean it's objectively the more elegant game
If you're going to samegay, don't use a weird as frick word to describe it in both posts. Nobody calls a game "elegant".
you didnt even read the OP
That's what the thread is about moron.
You know what, I'll admit I'm a moron.
Baby food is really simple too, but I really wouldn't call it more elegant than a steak. Whatever you say.
>claims mario has bad design
>bitches about collision and coding issues
That's not what game design is, friend.
It is more elegantly designed. I like Mario 64 more overall.
spyro 1 had some pretty sloppy level design the other 2 were more solid (at least for the main levels)
but mario 64 has fricking awful design. they just had no clue what they were doing for so many things. there's so many bafflingly stupid coding issues with controls and collision.
getting stars kicks you out of the levels which only serves to waste players time, there's that hole in the ship level that actually just takes you out of the level without telling you for no fricking reason and make you lose all your progress.
spinning bowser around controls like shit and has no speed cap so if you spin the stick one too many times it becomes impossible to aim him. there's an entire level dedicated to precision platforming when marios horrible ice controls can't handle it.
Mario will walk and entire circle instead of just turning around sometimes. the game is a fricking mess.
It's also boring as frick. Next!
I like spyro a lot but after the first game they make half the game you doing minigames because they realized spyro is a little too limited in his controls and the pace of the game is too chill to make something truly challenging using them
Frostpunk, it gets comfy after a certain point
Guacamelee has 4-5 moves total that you get over the course of the game and all of them serve both as combat moves, movement moves, and Metroidvania unlock tools. It's really comfy and efficient because there's never a move you will neglect because you don't like it or it's weak or hard to pull off, the game really encourages using every move as much as possible and chaining them together.
I remember playing the first game on my vita, it was nice. Of course like most indie games it had an extremely annoying death spike filled obstacle course as the final optional challenge that demanded perfect execution of every movement ability you had.
Blizzard fricked up with Overwatch in many ways but the amount of unique identity and playstyles they crammed into only 3-4 abilities per character is commendable. No leveling, perks, items, in-game bonuses, unwritten synergies etc, it could've easily felt as just making each gun in an FPS a separate character but they managed to make them all feel vastly different to play. Shame about everything else.
I dont know what makes overwatch feel so off and boring when you play it
maybe I got too much into competitive,
but the characters themselves are so much fun to play in theory. but actually playing the game feels bad. I swear I liked it at some point.
I dont get it.
I like all roles but I skew towards either "sneaky flank dps" or Tanks. people screamed at tank doomfist but when they dropped overwatch 2 I played him a lot and got around play rank before dropping the game again. was diamond in overwatch 1 mainly playing flank dps and tank
Yeah Link to the Past basically pioneered the Zelda formula for decades until BotW reinvented it.
Zeldagays trying not to talk about BotW/TotK when talking about some 9ther Zelda game
Given the sales it's likely going to be the new direction for the series so it's only logical to compare them
>new direction
>it's been this direction for 8 years
>four directions of movement
wrong
>wrong
right
Tomba
LTTP is legit the GOAT.
>love BOTW
why? it's literally the opposite of elegant design. incredibly sloppy design, no worthwhile content.
whatever little puzzles and challenges there are, can be bypassed by the broken physics bullshit.
there's nothing of value to find in the world, no progression at all.
lots of garbage mechanics that are objectively bad for the player, miles of worthless empty environments, shitty breakable loot garbage, shitty stamina system that's way worse than SS.
This guy came into a lttp thread to seethe over botw lol
indeed
>responding directly to OPs post.
>the post is about design.
>half of OPs post talks about BOTW
>BOTW has notably bad design for the series
nice try.
>seething over greatness in a thread not even about it
something selling well is not an indication of quality. often the opposite.
look up the highest grossing movies. they're garbage.
people like GTA and GTA has dogshit design. BOTW is more like GTA and less of an actual game, hence it sells to that market.
>people like GTA and GTA has dogshit design
I find it amazing how unfun these games consistently are once they went 3d
>breath of the wild on the Wii U
>did better than Twilight princess on the Gamecube and the minish cap on the GBA
huh, thats strange
I think you can attribute this to wii u owners who waited for a new zelda for the console's entire lifespan like me buying it on the wii u. Gamecube already had a game and the wii seemed a more convincing sell than the switch
I bought Twilight princess second hand and I pirated Skyward Sword.
so those sales wouldn't be counted here.
it's still obvious to me that both are far better games than BOTW. I was bored shitless and couldn't even be bothered to finish it.
BOTW games are the only mainline zelda games I never finished. the graphics are so cheap and the stories are so bad I don't consider them mainline tho. I consider them awkward spinoffs like links crossbow training.
I beat botw around 40 hours in. Any more and I would have chunked it. Don't know how people spent 100+ hours in that game. I borrowed my nephews copy of TOTK and couldn't finish it.
im playing video games not the stock market frick off
Is this chart even right? OoT had a gamecube game that also came with Master Quest and a demo disk, but I only see OoT having N64 sales on this chart and 3ds?
oot gc was tied in with wind waker pre orderings iirc
ah ok, thanks for clearing that up anon.
>world population literally doubles + countries besides america/japan/western europe get to actually play video games
>duh newest game in series best one cuz it sold most
I like botw but you will always be wrong for doing this, you need to compare sales with how much other games were selling at the time. even something in a much more niche genre like 1v1 fighting can sell 10 million copies now (tekken 7)
All true, but I still like the Ghibli aesthetic, the music, I like that they genuinely tried to make the world meaningfully interactive even if they failed, I like the initial impression of the world before you realize it's kind of empty and not worthwhile, the potential was there for it to be something truly great and I like that they put that idea in my head
I found plenty to do, sounds like you didn't leave the tutorial.
The core loop of the game boils down to climbing, flying, and combat. The rewards are simple, approachable, and most importantly, ignorable if you just want to walk around and enjoy the world. Elegant game design. Seethe chud
>if you just want to walk around and enjoy the world.
what's to enjoy when there's nothing in the world tho?
>NOOOO WHERE ARE MY DOPAMINE REWARDS????
>WHY AREN'T THE NUMBERS GOING UP????????
sorry zoomer, you just wouldn't get it
>four directions of movement
You can move in 8 directions
It's not true 8-directional movement since there are no sprites for diagonal traversal, and you can only attack/fire arrows/charge/etc in 4 directions
you can throw the boomerang in 8 directions
I wonder how you'd make BOTW work without all the trash noise they dump on you to make you keep chasing the carrot on the stick
Remove all the pointless weapons, items, crafting, koroks, dungeons etc, have only 3-4 weapon types with 2-3 "upgrades" for each and 2-3 types of consumables, how do you keep the player engaged in such a big world with such a simple interactive scheme without something to hook them, leveling?
Actual puzzles, actual hard enemies, labyrinthic dungeons, good bosses, platforming sections... literally the basics.
If BotW had the caves from TotK and some traditional Zelda dungeons it would basically fix all the problems I had with it. I don't know what you're going on about with "carrot on a stick", the world is a joy to explore especially with the caves added, but the actual main story content is lacking, and the vehicle stuff in TotK is dogshit.
>the world is a joy to explore
BotW devs literally talked about how players didn't want to explore the world until they added small hooks like the random dungeons and koroks everywhere to keep them going along, without those the vast majority of the ADD audience wouldn't give a frick about setting off into the world
ADDtards also can't enjoy most retro games without save states and speed hacks, BotW is retro style design with slop thrown on top to satisfy modern gamers.
if you mean "elegant" as in "smooth with very little excess content and largely diegetic transitioning between gameplay and non-gameplay elements" then i'd heavily recommend pic related
I just beat this game for the first time a few minutes ago. I definitely understand where people are coming from when they say its the best Zelda game. I think this game has a very nice spirit. It feels like its own thing without trying hard to be its own thing. The first two games were wildly different and it didn't have the baggage of everything that came after. I had a great time. The ice palace was pretty annoying but over all I enjoyed most of the dungeons. I still prefer OOT just because I find the characters in that game to be more interesting, but I respect anybody who thinks ALTTP is better. Great game.
I'd like to say Megaman in all series, but I think the version that works best with what you're after is MML/2/MoTB. Everything in those games is tailored to a specific purpose and it always feels rewarding.
valve's orange box games were masterfully designed
Can't have a thread like this without mentioning Super Metroid. While it's not my #1 favorite game of all time, Super Metroid is definitely what I'd describe as the perfect video game. It does everything right, and nothing feels pointless or like filler.
i think its a little annoying that you cant skip the intro but thats just 2-3 minutes so i cant complain
My favorite part is how ammo for anything you're lacking drops from any enemy, instead of having to chase down a specific enemy to replenish a specific type of rocket. It's essentially limitless ammo as long as you keep killing stuff which is an elegant solution.
I'm playing this now. Maridia makes it not perfect.
Maridia hate is a meme and I never understood it
>by time you get there you should have Gravity Suit so water is of no issue
>it's the game at it's most Metroid, with the most branching paths, nonlinearity and exploration
>you get Space Jump and Plasma beam, power ups that make you feel really powerful
The only annoying part is the Sand mechanics but once you figure out how to consistently jump out of sand it stops being an issue
I liked BotW a lot more than other 3D Zelda games, but I've always preferred 2D Zelda to 3D zelda.
I'm going to be a gay and say Symphony of the Night. It's just a FUN game and there's lots of equipment to collect and try. I always feel so relaxed playing it. Has lots of nice little details that you can tell love went into it. Beautiful sprite work as well. Plus it has a very nice and easy to use randomizer now if you ever get bored with the vanilla design.
i randomly came across transiruby during the sales and it fits the bill, the main gimmick is pretty simple and it´s used decently, game is a bit too easy but i guess it does focus more on puzzles than combat/platofrming. Apparently the same dev is releasing a zelda clone next year, i wonder if he´ll be able to pull it off
2D Zelda is much better than 3D. I'd take any new 2D Zelda game over 3D crap
Sometimes simplicity is better than innovation. Taking the game open world or adding in gimmicks that try to make the game what it isn't is was a mistake
And no, The Legend of Zelda isn't an open world game in the same sense of how it's used today
>there's very little pointless excess in it
eh, all first wave SNES games were tech demos crammed with extraneous shit to show off the hardware
LTTP is a great game don't get me wrong (unlike SMW) but it's not some tight barebones thing. Even back then I was marveling at technological gimmicks like the soldiers' heads looking around