>the first PART of the correct path is the EIGTH left turn
frick whoever made this. not like a haha "oh what an butthole" way, like releasing something made for entertainment on exchange of currency and having the finale be a shitc**t random maze like this is a shitc**t thing to do to anyone let alone an entire audience. im not the type to waive random evidence in arguments but if someone tried to parade around "games should be as hard as possible" as an argument for bullshit difficulty i would make them play this via threat of violence
It's telling how much gamers have changed. Back in the day almost everyone who played Tomb of Horrors at convention completed it and it was highly regarded.
Now the fact that it requires a lot of exploration and you may often have to reroll new characters is really offputting to people.
The Tomb of Horrors was made by Gary Gygax as an attempt to teach his wienery players a lesson. The intention of the designer was to make a dungeon for masochists. Good design and bad design are somewhat subjective. The Tomb of Horrors is designed to mess with players and make them more cautious and take some risks. The kind of person who wanted to play it was probably a masochist.
New D&D is about being a snowflake superhero. Old D&D is about being a thrill junky survivor.
The Tomb of Horrors was made by Gary Gygax as an attempt to teach his wienery players a lesson. The intention of the designer was to make a dungeon for masochists. Good design and bad design are somewhat subjective. The Tomb of Horrors is designed to mess with players and make them more cautious and take some risks. The kind of person who wanted to play it was probably a masochist.
Old dungeon design would put treasure in a room, but load it with danger. Traps are obviously bad, but combat was also something that you generally wanted to avoid. It wasn't like video game RPGs where the combat is most of the game loop (if not the whole game loop).
I don't think you'd have to be a masochist to want to challenge it, just someone who likes a steep challenge. Same reason people flocked to Dark "PREPARE TO DIE" Souls.
>Now the fact that it requires a lot of exploration
exploration only works if the clues aren't the most vague obtuse riddles imaginable, and i'm not saying puzzles need to be dumbed down for moronic brainlets here, they just need to operate on consistent logic that isn't borderline lovecraftian.
I started getting sick of Wizardry's bullshit by the third game when I got teleported into a dark area that also has pits you can fall in. There's nothing you can do but fumble around blindly and fall into every pit as you try to find your way around. It's a franchise that 100% deserves to be savescummed against.
Everyone knows about how bad Wizardry 4 is, but the last few floors of the first Wizardry Gaiden on Gameboy is almost as bad as the Cosmic Cube. It's just a massive clusterfrick of stairs, one-way teleports, and trap chutes spread out across 3 floors, with some one-way doors, invisible doors, pitfalls, rock traps, and dark zones thrown in for good measure. Your goal is to navigate yourself to 8 switches spread out across the middle floor, but the floor plan is designed with sectioned off areas forcing you to find your way around to the correct stairs and teleports on the surrounding floors to get into each section of the middle floor to find a switch. Once you finally find the 8th switch you get attacked by a boss fight, kill that for an item that activated a warp on the lower floor which takes you to the final floor of the game. By the time you get that far you've basically won, you just need to navigate from the middle of the floor to the bottom-left corner then back again. You'll likely be strong enough from the dozens of random encounters you had to fight on the last 3 floors that the final boss won't be too much trouble.
If you ever want to play something a lot like a blobber that's actually fun and not soul destroying I'd highly recommend trying out Brandish from the boys at Falcom
I hate mazes
I hate teleport mazes
Last level before the end boss btw.
>the first PART of the correct path is the EIGTH left turn
frick whoever made this. not like a haha "oh what an butthole" way, like releasing something made for entertainment on exchange of currency and having the finale be a shitc**t random maze like this is a shitc**t thing to do to anyone let alone an entire audience. im not the type to waive random evidence in arguments but if someone tried to parade around "games should be as hard as possible" as an argument for bullshit difficulty i would make them play this via threat of violence
Alright, what game is this?
Realms of Arkania 3: Shadow over Riva
what games are these?
Bottom one is Mordor: Depths of Dejenol, I think.
what level of autism do you have to reach to find this enjoyable
wizardry 4 isn't about enjoyment, its for masochists
its also not a RPG
*vomits on you*
wizardry is the first crpg you fricking homosexual
come back when you've actually played it troonymutt
Ultima came out a few months before it. Also some other games that nobody played, like dnd.
Not that anon but Wizardry 4's arguably closer to an (absurdly c**ty) adventure game on Wizardry 1's engine.
>enjoyable
If you find the most brutal game in this genre (or at least sub-genre) enjoyable, there is something seriously wrong with you.
I don't know but I surely have it because
all give me a boner.
Wizardry is the meme answer, the real one is Gygax's Tomb of Horrors:
>inb4/tg/, idgaf.
back to your board tabletroony
It's telling how much gamers have changed. Back in the day almost everyone who played Tomb of Horrors at convention completed it and it was highly regarded.
Now the fact that it requires a lot of exploration and you may often have to reroll new characters is really offputting to people.
The Tomb of Horrors was made by Gary Gygax as an attempt to teach his wienery players a lesson. The intention of the designer was to make a dungeon for masochists. Good design and bad design are somewhat subjective. The Tomb of Horrors is designed to mess with players and make them more cautious and take some risks. The kind of person who wanted to play it was probably a masochist.
New D&D is about being a snowflake superhero. Old D&D is about being a thrill junky survivor.
Old dungeon design would put treasure in a room, but load it with danger. Traps are obviously bad, but combat was also something that you generally wanted to avoid. It wasn't like video game RPGs where the combat is most of the game loop (if not the whole game loop).
I don't think you'd have to be a masochist to want to challenge it, just someone who likes a steep challenge. Same reason people flocked to Dark "PREPARE TO DIE" Souls.
>Now the fact that it requires a lot of exploration
exploration only works if the clues aren't the most vague obtuse riddles imaginable, and i'm not saying puzzles need to be dumbed down for moronic brainlets here, they just need to operate on consistent logic that isn't borderline lovecraftian.
>hidden walls/doors
Trash
I started getting sick of Wizardry's bullshit by the third game when I got teleported into a dark area that also has pits you can fall in. There's nothing you can do but fumble around blindly and fall into every pit as you try to find your way around. It's a franchise that 100% deserves to be savescummed against.
wizardry 6-8 is the only real wizardry to me the early ones and the japanese spin-offs are not the same
I don't know about evil, but it ain't easy.
Everyone knows about how bad Wizardry 4 is, but the last few floors of the first Wizardry Gaiden on Gameboy is almost as bad as the Cosmic Cube. It's just a massive clusterfrick of stairs, one-way teleports, and trap chutes spread out across 3 floors, with some one-way doors, invisible doors, pitfalls, rock traps, and dark zones thrown in for good measure. Your goal is to navigate yourself to 8 switches spread out across the middle floor, but the floor plan is designed with sectioned off areas forcing you to find your way around to the correct stairs and teleports on the surrounding floors to get into each section of the middle floor to find a switch. Once you finally find the 8th switch you get attacked by a boss fight, kill that for an item that activated a warp on the lower floor which takes you to the final floor of the game. By the time you get that far you've basically won, you just need to navigate from the middle of the floor to the bottom-left corner then back again. You'll likely be strong enough from the dozens of random encounters you had to fight on the last 3 floors that the final boss won't be too much trouble.
If you ever want to play something a lot like a blobber that's actually fun and not soul destroying I'd highly recommend trying out Brandish from the boys at Falcom
I only know that game from this song from a cool RPG Maker game
obligatory
shinjuku in EO1 was worse imo