ITT ideas on how to save the MMORPG genre from extinction
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ITT ideas on how to save the MMORPG genre from extinction
ITT ideas on how to save the MMORPG genre from extinction
Thalidomide Vintage Ad Shirt $22.14 |
Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
Thalidomide Vintage Ad Shirt $22.14 |
>create an easy way for AI to interact with your favourite MMO local server emulator and tell it to simulate other players
>enjoy
this is the future. Many WoW offline emulators already have primitive AI that can do things in the world and dungeons raids and pvp
this but unironically, I want to get into guilds but without the discord and other daily bullshit
This, players have ruined MMOs
Imagine having any MMO in a perpetual discovery state as all the AI players explore
Might as well not have the human play at all and continue by creating an AI youtuber that compiles and edits exciting moments of the game from different AI player perspectives. Then you can start generating actual artificial artificial drama between AI tubers.
The future's bright. God I can't wait until we get AI brains.
have to go back to being actual MMOs
replicate UO from 1997. done.
no one would play it and neither would you
I’m playing project 1999 and loving it.
no pity for cheaters and bug abusers. more creative ways of punishment.
have a player-driven world akin to what Shadowbane was. talk about another game that was ahead of its time. also, more complex world systems. this could mean more AI driven NPCs, events, etc. make it feel like these characters are actually alive. more creative endgame.
only have like 5 classes with an interesting skill tree and potential dual-class choices
bring back racism to these games in regards to play style, mechanics and lore.
>replicate UO from 1997. done.
based and correct. UO was peak. and when you look at early builds and design notes with how they intended to make the world economy and resource gathering, it was ahead of its time. players got too greedy and ruined the ecosystem.
>bring back racism to these games in regards to play style, mechanics
wat?
orcs are low INT morons, humans are more magically attuned and all around decent at everything, dwarfs are good with metalsmithing and tank-y combat, elves are good with magic, archery and botany/potion-making. also make npc racists against players of a certain race and/or class.
Oh, then yeah, I agree with you. The problem is that homosexuals will complain that their orc wizard is weaker than the elf wizard. Then the devs will cave in and normalise stats across all races
How is an ignorant newbie asking a question in bad faith?
i also forgot to mention, look at what the chinese are doing. they're pretty much the only ones keeping the genre alive. they even buy defunct westoid MMOs and revive them. shadowbane being one of them.
>Then the devs will cave in and normalise stats across all races
players can complain. ill just tell them to sneed and roll a new char. i'd also bring back some form of EverQuest stamina, but less gay.
>look at what the chinese are doing
>grind grind grind
>f2p
>p2w
>ugly wings and other shit
>p2w
>grind
truly peak of mmos right here
>ill just tell them to sneed and roll a new char
Yeah, but we're talking about modern devs who live on twitter and companies ran by shareholders
UO in current year would be just gangs of sweatlords coordinating on discord to go around instagibbing noobs all day and teleporting away without any meaningful player interaction
Yup. Most people want casual games with some rule enforcement and if player freedom has to suffer for it then so be it. Every hardcore/pvp-centric game dies because the people who loves those games are psychopaths who drive away the rest of the players.
>Every hardcore/pvp-centric game dies because the people who loves those games are psychopaths who drive away the rest of the players.
That could exist in the past. But not today because streamers and other social medias. It's far easier amass that kind of moron
dark age of camelot still exists, Black person. so do freeshards which are populated.
I mean, that was kinda UO of yesteryear as well.
Although there are a lot of independant UO servers out there now. at least some people are messing with them.
That kind of player has always existed, but they weren't the majority back them. They basically push every other type of player away, which is why full-loot pvp mmos never survive.
>to go around instagibbing noobs all day
Noobs will not play it, no one wants to get farmed all day.
Just let them die.
It's not worth it trying to revive MMOs as a genre.
Can't in modern day... everyone is sitting on some shitty discord not communicating with people in the game, everyone is following the same builds and guides so there is literally 0 knowledge to be shared, It's dead.
>Can't in modern day... everyone is sitting on some shitty discord not communicating with people in the game
then get rid of player names and ids.
theres never "you cant". you just have to re imagine things
>nobody socializes in modern MMOs
>so let's make it utterly impossible to socialize for the very few who want to lol
???
The WoW solution
god forbid you ask a simple question in map chat and autists start spamming "use the wiki"
modern mmo players discourage community or communication in the sake of efficiency
>ask a question that can typed literally into google and get your answer
>get pissy when people don't want to be your knowledge b***hes
>talk to the people in the game
>dont ask me go to google
this is why MMOs will never make a comeback
Hey guys I know your time isn't valuable and certainly worth less than my time, so you can be a darling and waste your time answering my stupid questions that I don't even really care to read or understand. Thanks! :*
what ? talking inside a video game? in fullscreen? with people who are playing the game and know stuff about the game? ABSOLUTLY NOT. You will TAB OUT and go to GOOGLE . DO NOT FRICKING ASK US ABOUT ANYTHING. you are everything that is wrong with MMORPGs
So weird, notice the hostile toxic response? These are the people who waste your time with stupid questions.
You are the personification of that which has killed the community in MMORPGs. no shit you get "hostile" responses (LOL)
You're an butthole, you're an butthole in game too. You think I don't know who you are?
I don't answer bad faith lazy questions, ask a question in bad faith you get a bad faith response. You essentially write a question in 5 seconds and you demand someone spend 2 minutes to answer you. Because you're a lazy butthole. And that's why me pointing this out triggers you so much.
>You think I don't know who you are?
owh shit youre actually schizo
>how could you have possibly predicted I'm a massive butthole
It's like I have mind reading powers anon
please stop wasting your time responding to me. you have things to do that dont waste your time.... like leveling to 60 in a virtual world LOL
Talk to me about literally anything else other than "which monster drops X loot" and we could have gotten along.
>waste your time
If your time is so valuable that you see answering a question in a video game as wasting it, then why are you playing video games in the first place?
>MMOs need to stop trying to become games as a service
They always were games as a service, technically speaking.
I guess I should be clearer about it, my furstration comes from games kmmos and wow and others who have tacked on in-game shops to sell instant gratification, like a phone game
hey guys where is the profession trainer in this city?
How could you ask me this question? im trying to get to max level and cant be BOTHERD to WASTE my time answering you. yes i might know where it is but you should go to the wiki like all of us. you think this is a living world ? with people in it? no we dont do that talking shit in this game we play solo with the wiki open on our other screen. now dont ever ask me a question again you fricking NOOB
meant for
Teach a man to fish. I usually just tell people to ask a guard as they have a lot of helpful information
dont talk to me! talk to the NPC! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL wtf is wrong with modern MMORPG players
ask any guard and they'll put a pin in the mini map
hey where can i find hogger
It's literally highlighted on your map, did you get the quest?
hey where can i find your moms pussy
>Plays video games
>Complains about wasting time
Really wish you 40IQ moron would just have a nice day at this point
leave your basement for once
Answer a player's question and you teach him one single thing. Teach a player to use the wiki and you answer near-infinite potential questions.
What if you made a game that was actively hostile to metagay poopsockers? I'm not sure how you'd do it but you can't give the normalgay casuals a guideline if you don't play the game (at least not a very good one)
This is something contradictory that the gameplay should not follow the meta. "Metagaming" is essentually minmaxing, and to combat that I see 2 options. One: make a lot of stuff hidden and randomized. Imagine you beat the dungeon, kill bosses and get loot, then you enter it again - and there are new items, new enemies and new loot. It would still make possible to have a meta, as some stats on items are better than others, and the way you fight (pull packs and aoe) is standartized if you don't have a lot of variance. The other way to combat metagaming is constant updates. You need to rebalance the game very often, every week for example. I like this method more, however if the players will quickly adapt, there will still be "meta" for some time.
Too bad it costs millions of "wooden dollars" just to play.
playing wakfu on the mono account server recently felt like this
the game is french and the majority of the community is french and it has been updated a lot in recent years, so there is no guides on anything basically that are accurate just vaguely accurate
we did a bunch of difficult bosses (heaps of UB's) and a bunch of the listed mechanics, be they in english or french, in guides were just straight up wrong or said they had unknown conditions to trigger that we discovered, figured out, and even explained to others in our guild about how to do certain fights, exactly how the mechanics works, and heaps of other stuff
was an absolute blast and felt like how mmos used to be where everyone was just trying to figure out how the frick to do certain stuff and trying to get better gear and level up while sharing information and asking for help from those who knew the fight from first hand experience.
Unfortunate but true, the problem isn't the genre, it's what people want/expect from it
Here's a balancing solution for metagays and min/maxing gays
A stats formula that makes it so that if a build or specific item or talent tree or whatever is statistically the most used, lower its stats.
Even a counter relation between % of use and how much is it used, the more something is used, it decreases its overall output/power
GTA online
i enjoyed how lineage2 pushed openworldness to its absolute limit
a gigamaxxed player could camp a starter zone PKing fresh characters and there was no mechanism to stop him aside from another player of his level going there to stop him (incentivized to do so by the chance of stealing items from PKers)
want to farm in a high demand area? better be ready to pvp, people may not want to share
of course this filtered casuals who preferred a more easy-going experience like WoW, meaning that lineage only attracted hardcore autists and toxic thirdworlders
THAT being said i can't picture myself ever investing hundreds of hours in an MMO ever again
i think it's just an outdated genre for many people
It sounds like a cool idea but I don't think it'd be able to survive armies of mooks attached to streamers. The more I think about it it might be that MMO's are only viable when typing is still the prevailing means of communication.
Can't wait for Lineage 3
L2 has devolved though, if there would be a fresh server, only clan goons and multiboxers would join, and idea of "one guy pking lowbies" is not scary at all, instead they deal with complete lockdown of an area or just release bots while the enemy is sleeping. Server eventually becomes one-sided, meaning the most players affiliate to one clan and one group of players.
EVE Online did that, but they have used delegated servers and time dilation (time moves very slowly in battle). Another recent MMO I can think of is Aion, even on half-dead Aion Classic, sieges 300 against 300 are common, and back then it could reach 2000 players on one screen. How do you survive this? Just turn off the character models, only nametags will show up.
Again, the MMO genre worked at a time where no high coverage social media existed
no game shops of any kind
if you buy gold you get banned
if you buy carries you get banned
streamers are banned
You can't. The appeal is gone.
People that want PvE can just boot up the myriad of co-op games that now have leveling and gear progression.
People that want classic highstakes PvP just play Rust, ARK, or one the hundreds of clones.
People that want Arena style PvP moved on the MOBAs.
The fantasy of meeting someone in the wild and going on an adventure was always that: a fantasy. People are always busy doing their own shit so fun spontaneous moments barely happened.
I think the ship has sailed. It's just going to be "optimized" to death immediately and every moron is going to follow some "optimal" guide to remove as much game from his video game as possible, which will actually ruin the game for everyone as it will make it impossible to actually interact with people in a genre which is all about interacting with people at the core. Maybe some sort of fundamental change could shake things up enough to revive it for a while, like a high-quality VR MMO or something which would at first only really get a community of enthusiasts before everything is diluted for the lowest common denominator once again.
>The fantasy of meeting someone in the wild and going on an adventure was always that: a fantasy.
Nah that's moronic, that happened a lot when I played MMOs as a teenager. I met random people and made friends in every MMO I played. It was common to look for people to team up with for hard quests, to share tips about the area we were in and whatever quests we had already completed and then to maybe add somebody to your friends list and play together again sometime. This was before everyone was following a quest GPS arrow and before you had well-known guides or guide videos for everything under the sun. At most you'd get some dude posting some tips on the forums, but it's not like most people actually bothered with the forums in the first place, so it was common to share knowledge in the game itself, either what you've learned through your own experience or what other players had shown you before. Some quests were just hard and nigh-impossible to complete without a party, others were obscure or hard to find and learning what you needed to do from another player was the best solution, others were in contested PvP areas and you had to contend with the simple fact of safety in numbers.
I've often wondered if it'd be possible to include so much variation in mob strengths and weaknesses that optimising becomes utterly impossible because you could never be optimal in more than a tiny fragment of content.
People would still know that it's best to grind mob X in area Y until you hit level Z when you move to the next step.
>People are always busy doing their own shit so fun spontaneous moments barely happened
It sucks that this was your experience but I don't agree with you.
I feel like there's a large portion of people on this site who are complete shit heads that whine about how hard it is to do group stuff in games. I've never had an issue but I also don't spam obscenities all day in chat like I've seen in some of the Ganker guilds.
Almost like it's not the games or the other people that are the issue.
>he thinks the problem is being a jerk rather than not wanting to put up with morons and annoying people to progress
Gankerners’ biggest problem is that they don’t fit in with regular folk. That doesn’t mean they are nasty or obnoxious, because all you need to have nothing in common with other people is an aversion to sports and a deep knowledge of an uncommon interest
>Gankerners’ biggest problem is that they don’t fit in with regular folk
This isn't 2008 anymore. The Ganker user base is no different than reddit outside of wanting to say Black person and homosexual.
Bullshit. The difference between Reddit and Ganker is huge simply because one site is happy to discuss negatively while the other is set up to hide negative opinions.
The difference in those two types of people is actually enormous. IRL the types that are only positive can’t even put up with negative types at all.
>set up to hide negative opinions.
You are hilariously ignorant. Just because one is built around an upvote system does not mean it hides negative opinions. They have entire subreddits dedicated to shitting on games that are no different than the majority of threads spammed here.
>The fantasy of meeting someone in the wild and going on an adventure was always that: a fantasy. People are always busy doing their own shit so fun spontaneous moments barely happened.
nonsense, in lineage 2 you constantly had to go to an area and locally look for others to team up with bcs soloing wasn't viable
Staff-enforced roleplay with the staff being platonically perfect impartial observers who only care about ensuring canon is followed and no metagaming occurs without being shitlords about it. I say staff enforced because otherwise it would be overrun by trolls and children who need to be culled by a force of authority. Have the world itself be a dynamic sim with no main quest, just monsters, regions, and factions that fight over territory and go to war with each other and the occasional all-consuming threat that spawns in. A functional economy too, with caravans and shit. That's how you do it.
>Staff-enforced roleplay
A novel prize for you moron, ever played gmod?
You mean a casual community with powertripping jannies doing it for free and not professionals doing it for a paycheck thus making them nonbiased and impartial?
lol, ever play ss13? The nature of the internet and turd worlders make your perfect rp system unattainable
Remove "endgame" as the sole focus.
Remove leveling. It serves no purpose whatsoever.
Abandon the modern implementation of dungeons. Linear corridors between bosses aren't dungeons, they're an unfun waste of time. Dungeons should be slow, deadly, full of surprises, traps, hidden passages, secret bosses and loot.
Flatten progression, power increases should in the single digit percentages and should take significant time to achieve.
Implement systems that allow players to create and drive content. Placing bounties on monsters for parts used in crafting, commisioning crafters to enhance or create gear, hiring explorers to scout newly discovered lands for points of interest or monster camps.
Gameplay should primarily be short to medium length scenarios that contribute to a larger and longer adventure that plays out over weeks or months.
Fewer and more distinct abilities per class. There's no reason to need forty buttons to play a video game.
Reliance on holy trinity meta minimized. No one should be sitting in the backline spamming heals or standing under a monster's nuts spamming AoEs to hold aggro.
Smarter and stronger enemies who will need to be split or otherwise CC'd from groups, and who have a variety of attacks and behaviors to make encounters more unique.
Plenty more, basically just do the complete opposite of what modern MMOs are doing and it'll be great.
>Remove "endgame" as the sole focus.
>Remove leveling. It serves no purpose whatsoever.
Those ideas are incompatible
>Those ideas are incompatible
Incorrect. The entire game should be a different paradigm than what you currently acknowledge. that's the point.
Why isn't there an MMO where you build a big wall using stones you pick up off the ground?
mmo is short for mmorpg
you are forgetting about the rpg part.
Here is my MMO idea:
>playable human, dwarves and elves vs an undead horde
>goal is to push back the undead and reclaim territory
>no levels, perma death
>dead characters raised as part of the undead horde
>every character starts as a peasant in rags
>progress through big randomized quest chains that involve fighting the undead horde or going on adventures
>they reward new skills
>traverse procedurally generated themed dungeons (like forest dungeon, underground dungeon, mountain dungeon, underwater dungeon) to reach the undead territory (and accomplish quests or gather materials there)
I have many other details to share but that's the general idea.
Wrong
The leveling part splits the game in two, when the game reaches a certain age, everyone is in the endgame, and the leveling part becomes a lonely slog to rush through to get to the real game.
No leveling means everyone is playing the same game.
RPG doesn't mean anything. It's the rock and roll of video games. Progression is the enemy of any game that tries to make people play together. Call my game a MMO rogue-lite if you want, I don't care. The important part is the massive multiplayer experience in a persistent world.
>Dungeons should be slow, deadly,
kick this moron he pulled too many monsters again wtf
>traps
solved on day one
>full of surprises, hidden passages, secret bosses and loot.
solved on day three, dude join the discord it has map for a dungeon stop holding us back
>Flatten progression, power increases should in the single digit percentages and should take significant time to achieve.
either that's too small to matter or too big and will create a gap between geared and nongeared players.
>Placing bounties on monsters for parts used in crafting, commisioning crafters to enhance or create gear
probably the only good idea in your shitpost
>scout newly discovered lands for points of interest or monster camps.
solved during week 1, thanks to datamining
>Reliance on holy trinity meta minimized.
ask vanilla GW2 players how that played out.
What are you going to do when boss targets glass cannon?
>who will need to be split
how do you split you deleted tanks, moron
>Reliance on holy trinity meta minimized. No one should be sitting in the backline spamming heals or standing under a monster's nuts spamming AoEs to hold aggro.
This has been discussed to death and the conclusion is that it is inevitable in any game where killing a boss is the main focus.
untrue
Monster Hunter does not have a trinity.
Everyone's a dps.
RaiderZ an actual mmo did the same thing. There's a healer sure but they are expected to dps. The defender doesn't have any aggro skills just a shield to be used in circle encounter to block certain attacks but otherwise dps.
I suppose one solution is to just never have a specialized healer class at all. But that's not gonna fly in a classic fantasy.
Make true heals only work outside of combat. In combat, those classes can play as buffers like augvoker.
Give players rechargeable path of exile style potion toolbelt and have to pick whether to equip self-heal pots, mana recovery pots, buff pots, debuff removal pots, etc.
monhun is also not an rpg
there's no trinity in destiny 2
maybe bosses shouldn't be designed to target someone and one shot them because that's moronic?
Bosses in destiny 2 absolutely fricking suck though. You spend most of the encounter doing some inane hot potato with glowing balls to make boss vulnerable for like 10s at which point you just dump all your heavy ammo into its weakspot, repeat 3-5 times.
>Remove leveling. It serves no purpose whatsoever.
It's a cornerstone of the "RPG" genre. Leveling and stats are what define RPG gameplay.
leveling in modern MMOs and arguably digital RPGs as a whole resemble leveling in OD&D and its derivatives in name only
i don't think it's possible to really remove leveling altogether and still have the game feel like an RPG. but what they could do is try to remove the things that limit your ability to do things by level. you shouldn't be unable to drink a healing potion because you aren't high enough level for it. adding level requirements and limitations to everything is a design crutch. nothing changes about fighting level 15 wolves, level 25 wolves or level 40 wolves, it's still the same fight, the numbers are just bigger. it feels pointless.
you could just have the leveling scale be flat and design the game around intuitive character progression. like, you wouldn't exactly just "become stronger" as you fight more things, instead you can increase your strength at the gym to become stronger, buy training to get better at swinging swords, etc. the only game that i know works like this is hellmoo and i think it worked fantastically well
Make a good game that just has a lot of players on it instead of shit tier grinding/gacha "games"
classes designed with a complete kits from ground up, leveling doesnt give huge upgrades
zones and isntances are level-capped
everyone scales down to instance/zone level
can disable xp gain at any point
endgame begins at low levels
players incentivised to get their character to the teeth from low levels instead of rushing level cap
>zones and isntances are level-capped
>everyone scales down to instance/zone level
i like these ones
Stop making WoW clones would be nice
>What we should to save the MMORPG
>Duh, just remove and /or streamline the RPG
The absoulte state, you dont want a MMORPG, you want a dipshit simulator.
Also nobody of you are really thinking outside the box, you want WoW but [X personal preference] which is the exact state of the genre we have now.
I personally want a MMORPG based around cards and luck, but that doesnt make the idea that save MMORPG, the problem is that everything its based so much in personal convinience that people wont socialize in the game at its less convicient.
This. Socialization should be the only way to progress
>no troony shit
>no pay to win
>no instanced dungeons
>no grindslop
>uo style pvp
>you can talk shit without getting banned
>swg style economy
>eq style pve
the main problems with online games is meeting annoying twats like this guy.
so the solution, is a troony filled pay to win game full of instanced dungeons, grindslop, final fantasy tactics style pvp, automatically shadowbanning all brave souls that know the word that starts with n in chat without notification your messages are being binned, eve online economy and the entire thing is a diatribe on the philosophical narrative of man against himself.
also this asshat
do you fricks ever really wonder why no one likes being around your stupid hateful asses?
you don't pass
t. troony
don't let chinks or brazilians play them
You forgot this
>no trannies
>no women
>no leftBlack folk
>no actual Black folk
>no canadians
>no south americans
>to save MMORPGS we have to ban preemtively half of the world
Goddamn it anon, do you realize you might be a minority inside the remaining group and get preemtively banned as well?
>Free to play
Yes because it attracts more players
>Real time combat
Wow combat and turn based no longer work since it just makes everything drag
>Coom/ no ESG
really, denying fanservice is plain stupid, even more with someone that will look at these characters for +1000 hours, and mocking or lecturing a player is plain stupid if you want someone to stay
>Good story/good modes or gameplay
It NEEDS something for the players to keep them interested
>Consistency
Keeping an introduced mode alive by making the earned currency useful trough all the game prevents to have a game that 80% of the content is no longer playable
>Constant updates
dripfeed might be a popular way to do it but in a certain point every company just decides to not update in +a year and give less and less content killing the game
TLDR
A good game that keeps being good, no company will do it
>free to play
>real time combat
not a fricking chance it will be good
Original World of Warcraft perfected the genre almost 20 years ago.
WoW has always been garbage, people were exited because it allowed players to explore a fantasy world while using an OC but in current year, any game can do that with better gameplay
monsters and memories
Low poly
What low poly we are talking about?
Generic unity asset? runescape? Something like megaman legends? textured?
how hard is it to make a game like ragnarok online but actually GOOD like a real game and not just a korean mob grinder?
you can affect the environment with skills and spells those changes remain until someone else restores them or changes them in some other way
>ITT ideas on how to save the MMORPG genre from extinction
Give up on the moronic dungeons and shit. Especially the 12-man group crap, and all the other hardcore end game content that requires a gazillion hours in the game and 1,000 dollars in purchases. Focus on story mode content, pump out continuous DLCs to expand the story with more quests and more characters. Literally kill the multiplayer aspect in all ways beyond a social aspect. Make it a singleplayer game except with an optional co-op mode and there also happens to be a chatbox at the bottom left. That will SAVE MMOs forever.
this is literally swtor and it's not doing too hot
>souls like combat = grinding is fun
>proximity voice chat = community engagement
>world pvp exp bonus = added risk for bigger rewards/dynamic world/more tension
>gear focused progression = visible sense of progression
>balance of questing, grinding, and group content = playstyle for every person
There I fixed it.
voice chat
Elder Scrolls Online on console had this. It basically meant every other player you encountered was playing shitty music in their living room you could hear over the mic and all they did was cough a lot or talk to someone else in the room, usually in a deep and groggy smoker voice.
>souls like combat
Fricking dumb shit zoomer. Souls combat wasn't even good enough for a 100hr game, that shit would fall with a 1k+ hour game
Cope as much as you want but Souls combat is accessible, fun, and rewarding and people love it. The whole reason MMOs are dead is because watching your character auto attack while spamming 1-5 on the keyboard is fricking garbage gameplay.
I never said it was bad you illiterate zoomer, but it would be garbage for an MMO. There's a reason all the most successful MMOs have been tab-target based.
Go play New World if you want to see how trashy Souls gameplay would be in an MMO.
Tab target is only successful because it's what people are used to and a "safe" bet for devs who can't innovate. And New World combat isn't souls like just because you don't auto attack you moron.
>Light/heavy attack that you spam
>Rolling around like a moron to dodge
>Weapon skills that function similarily to weapon arts/ashes of war
>Not Soulslike
Shut up moron. Nobody wants soulslike shit in game that they spend 1k+ hours in, zoomer
>durr it has attacking and dodging and abilities so it's soulslike
Not debating a moron on this. If it doesn't feel like a souls game then it's not souls like.
If your argument is that a more engaging combat system will become stale quicker than standing there doing an automatic memorized rotation over and over then modern MMOs are for you. Go play them before they die out due to morons like you with shitty taste that fight for shitty systems from the 90s.
>If it doesn't feel
Your subjective opinion is irrelevant to the discussion zoomer. It has all the staples of Souls gameplay, whether you personally like it or not doesn't matter. You are just a fricking idiot throwing your worthless and ignorant opinions around when you have zero experience with the genre. Please have a nice day as soon as possible.
Not subjective, you know exactly why Nioh, Lies of P, Hollowknight combat feel more souls like than new world. And that's because they "feel" tight, responsive and attacks "feel" meaningful. Game feel is a game design topic unto itself so yes "feeling" is a legitimate marker of a genre which you'd know if you weren't a moron.
The only posts in this thread that are worthless are like yours which don't offer any solutions and only shit on others, because you have none because you're a moron.
>More babbling about his subjective opinions
Please, stop talking lil zoomie, you have zero clue about what makes MMOs good or what constitutes Soulslike gameplay.
>what makes MMOs good
You like 60 iq tab target shit that's all I need to know about you. Dense frick.
Here's a bit of info for you dumb zoomster, nobody is playing an MMO for it's mechanical depth you dumbs shithead. In fact, the popularity of MMOs have been on a rapid decline ever since they started making raids and shit more difficult via all the stupid DDR raid design. Nobody wants to grind mobs for hours w/ Soulslike gameplay you moron. Go play a Soulslike game if you want Soulslike gameplay and leave this genre alone, it obviously isn't for you.
You have the same mindset as quakegays who didn't think the fps genre needed to evolve to survive.
>it obviously isn't for you
Everything will be for me because I'll be alive long after you're dead.
Okay, here's a question for you ma'am. If Fromsoft themselves, can't design enemies, bosses and encounters that doesn't fall apart during co-op, why do you think that a genre, known for partying up with other, would be able to make Souls combat work with large groups of players.
What do you mean? I like the co-op in Elden Ring. Now whose being subjective?
Goddamn are you stupid. Co-op is easy mode in Fromsoft games, yeah? So much so that doing so trivialises the majority of the game, and that's with only 2-4 players. Now imagine trying to make a somewhat challenging game with that gameplay for a group of 10+ players you moron. In fact, just go look up a boss fight with that Elden Ring co-op mod installed and see how shitty that looks
>just go look up a boss fight with that Elden Ring co-op mod
Oh yeah, I finished that not too long ago with my bros. Was good fun.
>see how shitty that looks
Stop with the subjective opinions yeah?
>Oh yeah, I finished that not too long ago with my bros. Was good fun.
With how many players
>Stop with the subjective opinions yeah?
Not subjective, a boss designed around 1 player that gets scaled up for players will always be joke when 10+ morons start raping his ass
>What if you added 10 player co-op to a game that's only designed to handle 3?
That's dumb, you're dumb.
The game would obviously be designed differently if it had more players.
>Bro, make it a Soulslike
>The game would obviously be designed differently if it had more players.
I accept your concession, moron.
Would it somehow stop being a Soulslike if they made the bosses harder? How does that work?
>Make the boss harder
How? Just pumping up their values doesn't make the fight more fun Souls, so that wouldn't work for an MMO. Give them more complex movesets? How the frick is that going to work in an MMO when From is hitting the peak of fun and not frustrating bosses in a single-player game already? How the hell would aggro management work? What happens if you steal aggro during a bosses attack, do they just turn on their heel to look at you? What about arenas and arena sizes? Frick, forget about bosses, how do you make fighting normal enemies fun when 2 players are enough to trivialise 99% of enemies in Souls already?
A combination of upscaled values, moves that are designed to hit larger areas and in some cases having multiple bosses in a fight should do it. They could also make the enemy AI aware of the positioning and health of players so it could make decisions on how to pressure large groups of players more effectively, this could be tuned to either increase or decrease the difficulty of an encounter. It's better if the boss decides who and how to attack depending on the situation instead of having aggro systems that are easily manipulated and cheesed.
Fighting normal enemies should follow a lot of the same principles, adding more enemies when the size of the group exceeds a certain threshold should increase the fun.
Again, if Fromsoft can't make bosses that can be a challenge to 2-4 players, what makes you think anyone else is going to be able to make an MMO with Soulslike gameplay? Fromsoft sacrifices almost everything in their games for the sake of gameplay, that kind of shit wouldn't fly in an MMO.
I believe it can be done because it has basically been done already, in Dragon's Dogma Online. Shame it never released in the west so more people would know how amazing it was, it was leagues above other action MMOs. If a game like that can exist then a soulslike MMO is no problem.
DD's combat is the complete opposite of Souls combat.
Not really, from a technical perspective it is very similar, it's just a different style.
No it isn't. Dragon's Dogma gives players a large toolkit and variety of debuffs to fight simple enemies. Soulslike gives the player small and simple toolkit to fight somewhat complex enemies.
A debuff like Torpor would never exist in any Soulslike game, because that would completely trivialise the game
Yea it's a different style of combat, but technically it remains very similar. You might have thought that DD wouldn't work in a large multiplayer environment too but it definitely does and so does Dark Souls if they tried.
Was DDO large scale? From what I've seen on youtube it was usually a small group players fighting a big boss or a small group of enemies. Even technically they are barely similar at all, the amount of freedom you have in DD absolutely dwaves Soulslike
If you design the boss around multi-player, yes.
Let's just take parries:
When it's 3 randos or 3 pals doing dumbshit, no one will care. In a MMO setting you can bet there will be a mandatory parry god that will focus on nothing but making the boss unable to do shit.
You either have to make parries on a CD, crank up the amount of successive parry it take to get an actual interrupt to 11, or remove the mechanic entirely.
new world isn’t a souls-like, dumbass
reminder to lurk two years before posting
>boss starts a downswing
>roll to his back to dodge
>player from behind bumps and wienerblocks your roll
>doesn't matter because souls downswings have 360 degree tracking no matter how ridiculous it may look
Now, an MMO with monhun combat? I'd love to see that.
>souls like combat
>mmorpg
A weird crafting and alchemy system, like no "You need [This] and [That]" but rather like puzzles stuff and being able to break down basic materials into building blocks to enchance other rarer materials.
It's simple.
Quit pandering to people that don't like MMOs.
Will they ever match wow during wrath days?
Of course not, and nothing ever will again.
Ragnarok online and maplestory are twenty year old pure grindan games with the majority of players on pservers playing the classic versions that the companies abandoned long ago.
They have staying power exactly because they're *NOT* designed for normies.
>Will they ever match wow during wrath days?
>brings up MMO at it's most themepark most casual most non-mmo moment
you don't want a 'real' mmo you just want to be 15 again.
>bring up wow just to point out how mmo popularity will never reach that level again so there's no point trying to
>UHH YOU JUST WANT WOW AGAIN
You are such a fricking Black person ape holy shit.
streamers killed MMOs
you have to kill streamers first in order to make MMOs work again
Just make one streamer container server, and ban any streamer on other servers.
People are too asocial now, all the shit that ruined MMOs happened because the players wanted them (the vast bulk of the playerbase not the 1% poopsockers and masochists)
not listening to anyone in these threads for starters
Accept that it's dead and play private servers focused on solo play to reminisce about the world and adventures you used to have.
Impossible due to dataminers killing all fun. The only thing that can save MMOs is an AI that acts like a DM that ensures you can't "solve" the game.
just have randomized spawns. I dont see why this is so hard
>BRO DATAMINERS FIGURED OUT THIS RARE SPAWN CAN SPAWN IN 1 OF THESE 2000 LOCATIONS! GAMES OVER ITS OVERRRRRRR
Because the mystery is still removed, you just made it a pain to get the shit.
what if the devs DMCA'd wikis and any attempts to make a wowhead type website
so they just host the sites out of a country that doesn't respect US copyright law, like wow private servers do
what are some good mmos out there currently?
>classic wow all nostalgia and full of sweaty 3rd worlders
>retail wow has great combat but shit balance and constant chores
>xiv has good backlog but current content is lazy
>gw2 overly simple combat and not much endgame
>bdo fun gameplay but no endgame and too much cashslop
Last time I had fun in an MMO was Maplestory 2 because of all the content that wasn't just fighting. Minigames that are actually fun for exp was great.
And then it died for raid cancer I will never not be extremely mad.
Private servers are the only way now, companies are required to inject supreme israelitery into any new venture.
To make a good MMO all you really need is a very well made world the players can be a part of and interact with. All the gameplay emerges from what they choose to do within it, creating their own story.
There's no other correct way to make a good MMO. People get lost and sidetracked with complete dead end content mills like WoW because that's what they grey up with. Its all they know. They've never tasted freedom or indulged their own imaginations and the very idea of an MMO with that kind of off the rails freedom frightens them intensely. The truth is, these themepark MMORPGs are their own genres of artificial, rigidly curated, canned experiences of no actual relation to the real thing at all. There's no fixing the genre now because it doesn't actually exist anymore. It was bred out of existence in the minds of players.
Its extinct and never coming back because its now a culturally alien concept.
MMOs need to stop trying to become games as a service, and they absolutely need to stop streamlining socializing
a lot of the things people complain about like datamining, in-group preference was always a thing even going back to UO
what makes MMOs stand out compared to other games is the social aspect
my fondest memories from playing MMOs isn't some gay story the devs force on everyone, it was grouping up with randoms because we didn't have automatic groups at the press of a button
something as simple as farming a spot in a game, another guy comes and we work together to split the farm while we shoot the shit means more than any of that AAA horseshit they try to shove in and bloat the dev costs
>what makes MMOs stand out compared to other games is the social aspect
this will never happen again you even have people ITT being upset that people talk to each other in the game and would rather you just use a GUIDE/WIKI and GOOGLE
During UO days information didn't spread at the speed of light. Hell even during early wow days it was still slow as frick, hence the months long raid clears.
It's impossible to recreate the same thing these days because time between someone finding a strat and that strat spreading among players counted in hours now.
And, most importantly, the amount of players that played UO was laughably small. These days a game like UO would be considered "dead".
>During UO days information didn't spread at the speed of light.
Yes it did. It very much did. The only difference between then and today is the internet is full of people groomed from birth to be consumers and compulsively play video games without understanding why or what the point even is.
You have to be clinically delusional to think that information was spreading just as fast 25 years ago.
>You have to be clinically delusional
I think your memory is failing you and making you a little delusional. Everything about UO was 'solved' too. Most people ran incredibly min/maxed meta builds well before there was even a word for it. There were numerous website that detailed, much more eloquently and indepthly than their modern equivalents, the best ways to train every skill, where to do it and what skills you should train for optimal builds. As well as what current round of bugs could be exploited to gain an advantage.
I don't know why you think this wasn't happening back then other than you don't remember it very well, or you were just kind of a clueless schlub.
The information was out there in spades as soon as it was discovered. Circulated instantly through mIRC and UOautomap groups. Most people just didn't care enough to go looking for it because they were having fun playing the game as they were already sailing boats or blacksmithing or whatever they liked to do.
this, makes me laugh when wowtards somehow think that metagayging wasn't a thing in 2005
mmorpgs need to be hard and grindy with trinity system
at least for me
Let the players have sex with each other.
Get rid of convenience shit and make your game unable to be meta'd.
Party finders DEAD
Non-local chats DEAD
Instant teleports DEAD
Level caps or capped progression DEAD
"PvE servers" DEAD
I truly do think if you have good gameplay, an amazing world, and lots of shit to do people will play your game. And if you don't give them ways to skip the world or the gameplay they will talk. They will ride your 15minute boat trip and b***h about shit. They will stand in front of a dungeon spamming party shit. They will congregate in towns and spam BUYING X SELLING Y
Your world will feel alive again.
That being said.
Play Mabinogi.
>They will congregate in towns and spam BUYING X SELLING Y
>They will stand in front of a dungeon spamming party shit.
Stops working once your server population goes above 2k concurrent players.
More like they just make third party sites to counter it lol. When Old School RuneScape first came back and had normal trading, it took mere weeks before people started making trading platforms on sites like Zybez. Jagex eventually added a trading platform in game and although many other factors contributed, without it the popularity would have definitely continued to wane.
don't
let multiplayer die, focus on singleplayer games, then multiplayer will be novelty again and MMOs will gather gamers
Good ideas, im just gonna keep playing FFXI with 6 characters tho. Relying on other people to get shit done is fricking gay.
Based
Playing on a WoW private server now with AI party members and having a blast
so true brother i aint going to play with other people in an ONLINE game. im playing it SOLO hell yyeah
Auction houses are cool tho
you cant bring back the magic
whats online will be forever tarnished due to how easy it is to acquire information
go and explore your city, region, continent, the world
cross the ocean and stay there for 2 weeks if you are a wagie
internet is no longer a magical place, but the magic is still there, as we are still humans deep down
its insane to me that you have mouthbreathers that play online games completly solo. just play a singpleplayer game
???
as opposed to how you play life completely solo?
i play with your moms wiener in my mouth little gay
>just play a singpleplayer game
I am though. It's a singleplayer version of an mmo
>It's a singleplayer version of an mmo
so like the worst type of singleplayer game lol the only good thing about mmos are the fact that you can play them online with other people.
>the only good thing about mmos are the fact that you can play them online with other people
Matter of opinion. That's actually the worst part about MMOs
>tab targetting 30 boards all alone
>ah yes this is a good game
you could play so many better games
Huh? I only have to control my own character. The other characters have logic built in and they handle the rest
Do you hold hands with strangers when you go grocery shopping too? Would you rather shop in an empty grocery store or one with people in it?
In an empty one because I just wanna buy my shit and be out asap.
What kind of weirdo goes to a shop because lots of people are there? Terrible analogy.
Earth to anon: humans are social creatures.
It's fun to have other people online that gives you a sense of community. We are all sharing a common goal of progressing our characters. But I don't want to rely on them to do content unless maybe it's the highest tier. In FFXI I can do all endgame content with myself and my characters except for some stuff and that's pretty fun. The game play is fun controlling multiple characters.
I wish more MMOs expanded upon the Trust system from FFXI. I'd love to be able to customize trusts and build out a party of adventurers that I use the whole game. It's nice getting a group together of a few people and not having to fill it out completely with players.
Makes me remember looking for party for 4 hours as you wait for a bard to log in. Even though the bard trust logic is pretty shit in FFXI
The most fun I've had in ffxi was literally leveling a new account with trusts. But I think partly that was due to it being so cool compared to the vanilla way. It would be nice if the trusts could be stronger than their current max potential.
when solo questing is all about aoe damaging 20 mobs at the same time you know your game is trash
I think the answer is to make MMOs easier and more group friendly without requiring big mental energy.
If you're gonna stare deeply into a screen for 12 hour sessions, those can't all be done pushing M+ keys or Savage raiding or whatever in Lost Ark.
You need to be able to invite your lads, or shout for lads in town, and put on a music album or a podcast and go play.
If you get many lads, maybe you can go fight a dragon or delve a lava cave, but those fights shouldn't require 40 ping and twitch reflexes. They should require throwing fireballs and swinging swords for 10 minutes.
You got it the wrong way around, modern audiences don't like the slow burn approach to progression where you mindlessly tap buttons for hours on end, they crave shorter more intense sessions of stimulating gameplay. Getting to that gameplay should be quick and not require you to play through 100+ hours of boring grinds before you can join the fun.
>ideas on how to save the MMORPG genre from extinction
dude i was surprised when allods was still fricking going
this game has literally necrons as a race
kys
Josh Strife Hayes?
Josh Strife based MMO?
He should make one but I fear Corpo would ruin it
>play as a 5 foot 2 theater homosexual and the gameplay is running around trying to avoid being stepped on while you shit out unfunny angloid one liners
could be fun
whats angloid mean?
White americans and brits (soon extinct)
Anglo-Saxon
he has legitimately okay opinions on what's wrong with MMOs but iirc he is a bit too normal gay and likes story in MMOs
story is literally holding back what MMOs are meant to be, that is not to say there should not be a general story for the setting: but the stories within the game should be made by the players and at the very least, big events run by the devs
>story in MMOs
just read a book homie lmao
join a book club
yes, that's basically what I'm saying
MMOs should be like a kitchen sink D&D campaign, let the players go nuts
MMOs should just be ineractive porn sim vr game
>the stories within the game should be made by the players and at the very least, big events run by the devs
The problem with this approach is that the game is only fun when you have people to play with and make stories together. The majority of the modern MMO population is solo players that want to turn of they brains from real life. There is a reason why most of the player-driven MMOs stopped being made, the fact that lack of players will hit those games the hardest and spiral out of control.
Even EVE has given up on open world.
MMOs are salvagable, but if and only if we drop the MMORPG.
RPGs suck mechanically speaking, they're simple turn based games that get dumbed down into skill cooldown rotations for MMORPGs and end up being even less fun.
Last I checked, Planetside 2 was a game with a massive amount of players and gameplay that isn't dogshit, and that's fun.
there's some game called eranshore or something coming out eventually that is supposed to be a single player offline mmo where all the other players are replicated by bots
frankly since mmos are mostly populated by maladjusted angry turd worlders and poopsockers these days i'd prefer playing with just bots
Sometimes you have to let a shit genre die. Just let MMO join the shitty genre mass grave, alongside 2d fps and rts
>play mmo
>the chat is basically talking about streamers and using zoomer stream talk
no thanks
Player-made dungeons.
Make it fun to play, give players more to do than
>Kill 15 enemies for 15 items to return to the quest giver
Like even that basic ass premise can be made more exciting with more varied gameplay and good writing.
Also the social aspect needs a revamp, more push for random groups of players to band togethor to do more shit togethor.
Are there any good anime MMOs left?
>left
Was there ever a good anime MMO to begin with?
Tales of Pirates, Grand Fantasia, Aura Kingdom, Twin Saga, Eden eternal.
They weren't really the best but they were fun
Stop having 500 shitty ones at once and have a good one instead
My point is to STOP having 500 MMOs and force everybody to play a solid/good one. Unless other potentially competing MMOs stop existing, people will never come together to make a single game good, since big population is like half the appeal of this genre
To fix MMOs, you need to make it a hell of a lot more freeform in what can be done and not be so p2w heavy.
For starters, remove timegated dungeons, drops, or whatever. If people want to no-life the hell out of things to get the drops they want, let them do it. Secondly would be to enable the stuff you can get with in game currencies be able to do all sorts of things, for example, remove the cooldowns on healing items so they can be more useful and don't make all the broken items premium exclusive.
timegates exist to keep the playing field somewhat leveled for casual players, and when you don't respect the casual players you end up with a game like wildstar that speedran end of service by trying to be an epic no noobs allowed game
In comparison to how popular they were even 5 years ago mobas have nosedived, just like mmos did in the early 2010s
>you end up with a game like wildstar that speedran end of service by trying to be an epic no noobs allowed game
Yeah I'll never understand this obsession from the hardcore crowd to make a hardcore serious business only MMO. They exist in this weird bubble where they somehow think the majority if players share their viewpoints when in reality they're like 1% of players
>mobas killed rts and mmo genre
>battle royales and hero shooters killed the moba genre
what's going to be the next slop genre that consumes pc gaming?
Mobas haven't gone anywhere, they're still among the most popular multiplayer genres.
Extinction already happened. It's too late. Just give up and accept that you will never experience anything like the pre-wow mmos again.
Put it in the trash where it belongs.
You need to filter the antisocial solo players. Don't remove them from the game but instead give them their own solo content.
No groupfinder/matchmaking that would put these players into groups at a press of a button. They don't even want to play in groups and socialize.
Albion does it and that game is doing well.
Optimal way is to sprinkle side quests around the map that can be slowly solo'ed and to lock main quests behind higher level gear or party requirement
>main quests
You already failed
>muh sandbox
Failed every time
As opposed to the dozens upon dozens of dead themepark MMOs?
What part of "party requiremend" and "side quests" did you not understand
Okay, and? It'd still be another shitty themepark MMO added to the pile of dead themepark MMOs
You don't have to use slang, you are among anons. Say what you mean. You mean underage girl pussy. And there is nothing wrong with this.
There is, unironically, nothing wrong with having sex with little cute girls.
Make World of Warcraft 2 or World of StarCraft.
Or World of Diablo
>entrusting Blizzard to make anything worth playing anymore
I'm not sure that's wise
Well they should sell their company
interactive sex emotes
How to save MMORPGS
1. Delete all mmorpgs except AO
2. Put all money into AO
Just play the oldies. Some are still being updated or are community ran.
They still charge money for it despite it not being updated. Funcom are such dick suckers.
>Funcom are such dick suckers.
it do be like dat
Ah, to kite hecklers again. Ingot hustler. Money NT gang.
Allow sex between players ingame.
Make them actual MMOs. None of these instanced shit that only allows like 12 people max.
All these fricking improvements to technology and it only goes to making shit look better. We already had that a decade ago. How about we use this technology to allow 5000 people in a single map without dropping performance? Imagine actually being in a thousand man army, engaging against an actual world sized boss. But noooooooo, we have to use all of our cpu and gpu processing powers into putting more triangles for your npc's faces.
>mfw seeing kojima show off literal faces
Its so tiring
I feel like the bottleneck is somewhere else. We can definitely have more than 12 homies but 5000 is gonna bring down the datacenter's network interface or something. Someone else chime in.
Stop requiring subscriptions to access 20 year old content.
Make everything up to a certain year F2P. The players will spend more time interacting with the game which drastically increases the chance of them dropping money on it. Once they spend money on it and hit that cutoff year wall they feel obligated to buy a subscription to finish off the game they started.
This is all to say, "I want to play an MMO without paying for it" but with some board room jargon to convince the higherups.
Nah, subs are based and keep a lot of the filth out
Yeah there's a pretty huge noticeably difference between subscription MMOs and F2P and the types of people that play them. It's why I avoid anything that doesn't have a sub
My favorite part is they require a subscription AND they're adding F2P bullshit. The whole point of a subscription is so I don't get a shake down in game. The reason why WoW was great was you paid the ticket price and you got the full experience (albeit you had put some work in) whereas now it's like "nah the subscription just lets you log in, if you want the full experience you need to pay triple".
FFXI but good ui
do ffxiv?
FFXIV isn't even remotely the same
Plenty of different activities. Battling is a part of the game, gathering is another part, crafting is another part.
Someone could just craft, never leave town and becompe a master crafter.
To continue with the crafting example, it would require gameplay, not just clicking on 2 buttons like EvE.
Problem with odern mmo is everyone's value is based on their time investment, because everyone is compared to the same metrics. People should complement each others, even a "low level" with a "high level"
things like that
>To continue with the crafting example, it would require gameplay
What kind of gameplay?
I don't think you can make crafting equipment fun. Unless it's something like Overcooked, where you have to carefully manage timings and distances to have maximum output efficiency. Or it's Factorio, and you're now dealing with assembling assembly lines.
But in a fantasy RPG setting? Frick chance of that.
It's called Season of Discovery
Add chess
How about adding actual massively multiplayer elements to the games?
More lizard people
Borderlands 2 but with Borderlands 3 gameplay, and without cringe dialogue.
How would it save MMORPGs again? This game is a story-based looter shooter for a party of 4.
DFO combat, Runescape skills, monthly sub, no p2w, no cash shop and a flourishing e-sports scene made by a good company.
who the frick wants an esports scene for an mmo
t. zoomBlack person
i wish someone would make a new 2d mmo, i need a maplestory in my life but modern maplestory is an abomination
mmos have to give up on competitive format of endgame content. You cannot allow people to pick and choose whom to play with and have instanced scripted competitive content at the same time. You just massively throttle most players progression and basically make sweats and gold sellers rule the game which has been happening for over 20 years. Drop the endgame focus. Once you max out character you should be incentivized to start another. Its the only way
If you remove endgame properly, you wouldn't need to start a new character. The real solution is to design the game in such a way that all content is doable from the start, and completing it is locked behind player skill, strategy, and elements of chance. A sword is always a sword and a wolf is always a wolf. They don't magically get more threatening or less threatening as time goes by.
But like I said, modern game brains need that dopamine of WOW MY NUMBER IS BIGGER NOW WOW I'M HAVING FUN BECAUSE NUMBER IS BIGGER WOWOWO so it will never work.
Although I do agree some element of permadeath or large risk is necessary.
>all content is doable from the start, and completing it is locked behind player skill, strategy, and elements of chance
so you get some scuffed dark souls or valheim mmo, congrats moron. Players will just cheese all the bosses and quit after 50 hours because there is no sense of progression. The reason why rpg stats work is because it railroads the content progression. You want people to sink time grinding and socializing.
>souls
No, that would be purely skill. That's why I also mentioned strategy. If you go into a quest and you're surrounded by wolves, you're gonna die. And the solution isn't to bring a better sword or armor, it's to bring people. Or to use traps. Etc etc.
>50 hours in, they're gonna quit
They should. Designing a game to be infinitely replayable is stupidity at it's core, it's impossible. There is no game in history that is infinitely replayable, even ones specifically designed to be, like roguelikes. People will always get tired.
MMOs need constant development. After 50 hours, there should be new content out and old content should be modified. The world should be always changing as a result of players, not just plopping down a new landmass every two years or so.
You sound like a fricking moron.
>>50 hours in, they're gonna quit
>They should.
okay thanks for confirming you are a mongoloid and I can disregard everything you say. You clearly want survival crafting sandbox shit with your buddies not an mmo
yeah okay bud, you keep on trying the same shit these mmos have been doing for decades
grinding the same shit over and over for 0.1% dps increase if i get a 1% drop chance sword, yeah, now just do that for 2 years until the expansion drops, then you can do it some more.
More mmos should do tactical turn based like dofus/wakfu
All of you saying 'just make an interactable world lol are gonna be real disappointed when ashes of creations comes out and it dies in a few months like all the others. MMOS do not work in the current age of the internet because everything is datamined, everything is graphed and minmaxed, and socialization is not longer something people want to do outside of discord. It doesn't matter what systems you put in, gamers as a whole can not and will not enjoy MMOs in the current day and age because they unironically ruin it for themselves. The portion of people who want to log in, chill out, go on adventures and experiment with stuff, meet new people etc are a tiny, tiny minority nowadays and you all need to face that. Players these days just want to 'beat' games and be the best for epic esports or e-celeb points. Why do you think the Souls series is so insanely popular despite being at best, mediocre fricking games?
>this homie doesn't have 100 tons of hopium lined up
lol. Couldn't be me, can't wait to get lost and invested on AoC, if it ever fricking releases
make an mmorpg where you have to actually interact with randoms in ways that require skills other than following a guide.
I've always said this. Want to get into a locked passage? Bring a rogue. Want to get to a special dungeon? Bring climbing gear and people trained in climbing, or a flying vehicle (that costs actual resources and can crash if you're a bad pilot). Area up ahead has a horde of skeletons? You're gonna need a priest to turn them, or a shitload of people.
This isn't hard. Developers can do it. They just know it doesn't work because people just complain when they can't do everything themselves or when they can't bruteforce shit just by getting bigger numbers.
The only appeal of MMOs is being able to grief other players. Otherwise you can pay any sandbox game for better content.
You have a personality disorder. Seek help.
I like mortal online 2 a lot but wish it wasn't so common to lockdown dungeons with giant zergs.
The main drop from the minotaur dungeon is worth 20k gold in a game where most of the population hasn't seen 1000 gold in their lifetime.
Game is pretty niche too but I don't want more players as 1-2k online feels good for the current landmass
Lifetime ban on trannies
-Too many mmos can be played entirely solo which ruins the entire point of the genre.
-Make classes specialized and have utilities that other classes can't provide, for example in classic EverQuest only Druids and Wizards could teleport groups around the world.
-Get rid of any type of fast travel.
-Bring back pulling and crowd control as class archetypes.
-Meaningful customisation of character skills and equipment that let's your max level BiS character be different than someone else's.
-More immersion, I'm here to play digital DnD, not cookie clicker.
You can't, unless you time travel.
Is anyone here excited for any upcoming MMO releases? Pic related is my fav.
>preset character coomer garbage
dead in a week
To be fair. it's really hard to allow for custom characters in a game that isn't 3D.
Let them die, all are garbage in every aspect. Plenty of games out there with better gameplay/story/rpg/etc.
It's lost, the bulk of MMO players play gacha now. You're the MUD players.
Remove the first M.
Do private servers.
But the devs won't do it because they can't nickle and dime you with their cash shop.
I remember 20 years ago playing as human fighter ~lvl10 near starting village and then a random shillen elder appeared and gave his full buff, it was so magical I had goosebumps...
I remember somebody giving me windwalk and I thought that you couldn't walk faster than that and was amazed.
Eastern MMO's are soulless and trash. Except for MAYBE maplestory.
you can't fix mmos because they were a mistake from the very beginning. mmos are the one genre where people will pay to not have to play the game. people will pay for shit like level skips or gold farmers because they don't actually like playing the game.
>just make the game good
isn't even a fix because mmo players don't even want to play a fun game. the appeal for them is and always has been using the game as a substitute for real world socialization and accomplishment.
There might be some MMO players who feel this way but they're definitely a minority, otherwise the MMO genre would be booming, it isn't.
People expect more from modern MMOs, if they keep pushing the same old tired grindy design then the playerbase will just continue declining. New games won't be played by anyone but soulless bug people that love afk grinding on their cellphones and paying to win.
The only way to save MMOs is to turn them on their head so they become appealing for regular players.
mmos are a skinner box with a chat room and nothing more. imagine if any mmo had a patch that accidentally broke all the drop tables so you couldn't get any loot until they hotfix it. how many people who claim that they love playing mmos would keep raiding for the fun of it?
Can't look good, can't feel good. Can't feel good, can't play good. Simple as.
Exactly, that's why they should turn them on their heads. Design them in a completely different way that promotes fun gameplay and meaningful interactions with other players without all the time gating and "play forever" nonsense.
that's not fixing mmos though it's making a new genre that might seem similar to mmos but all current mmo players would hate it
They're not actually MMO players, they're progression addicts that play to increase their numbers. They might as well play Diablo and idle games because the massively multiplayer has nothing to do with it.
what else can you do in an MMO other than collect loot?
do group activities?
Contemplation, relaxation, socializing.
The problem isn't really collecting loot, the problem is needing that loot to progress in the game. Horizontal progression is a way better approach, it forces the developer to make fun gameplay instead of just giving the addict brain exponentially larger numbers.
Sports mini-games. Festivals. Treasure hunting. Community gardens. Hanging out on public transportation. In-game readable books with in-game book clubs you can join. Player-run art galleries. Charity dungeon/raid carries. Escape rooms with puzzles. Crime solving mystery rooms. Historical reenactments where you can play as a soldier in a lore battle and even make the historical losers win for lulz. Karaoke bars. Board games and competitions. Transmog fashion shows. A place for RPers to get married with the only transmogable ring in the game, the wedding ring, which has heart effects when you and your marriage partner touch.
>the wedding ring, which has heart effects when you and your marriage partner touch
Gearless tests of skill existed and were largely ignored. Now M+ exists and the players will of course swear to you they do it because it tests their skill.
It's already not an mmo because of having raids.
Guild Wars 1 with modern graphics. Done.
>Guild Wars 1
Not an MMO
This. No level and gear grinding. Just unlocking new unique skills to create fun builds. GW2 sounded good on paper but it is the polar opposite of the original.
why don't you just play guild wars or something if you want horizontal progression? I like vertical. Give me vertical progression
Vertical progression is the root of all problems with modern MMOs, people need a modern take on horizontal progression so they can learn how good MMOs can really be without playing an old fart game like GW.
what exactly is wrong with vertical progression?
It's boring and moronic.
>raid log until you get best gear because no reason to do anything else besides grind gold
>uhh
>damn this game is boring whens the next linear content so I can do it and then repeat?!?!
as opposed to quitting when you get every costume you want in a horizontal get?
This. I don't know how MMO devs got brainwashed into thinking the WoW formula would work for them. WoW worked because it was the first of it's kind and had a massive fricking playerbase that could fund more content. WoW's success was a mistake.
actually every MMOs devs mistake is that they started copying retail wow instead of vanilla and TBC
Make it coom worthy. Something like BG3's character customization but with more body types, breast. race and genital options. Coomers will keep your game alive for ERP if you can add that to even half decent gameplay. Just take an open game license like pathfinder or something.
>WoW-sized
>Can play everything solo or in a co-op group of up to whatever probably 40, sans exclusive dungeon/level/raid/whocares content that wouldn't make sense to solo story-wise
>A pirate fantasy game
>The boat only needs a driver to sail, none of that SoT teamwork bullshit, freeing the other team members up to do other things
>Lots of land, sailing, and even diving content
>MMO gear style
>Transmog
>One skill limit (carpentry, fishing, blacksmithing, engineering, etc) to create a healthy economy where players rely on each other - skills would extend to cosmetics where available, like carpenters being able to build silly ship or pirate cave (crew base) items, fishers can catch trophy mounts for walls and ships, blacksmiths can make cool hook hands/swords/guns, etc
>in-game currency pets with real currency pets being charity and not cooler than in-game currency pets on purpose
>considering pirates and voodoo/santeria are tied in and it's fantasy, there would in fact be magic for the combat arsenal, something we don't get in pirate games
>video settings that can be played on a toaster or maxed out like 2077 for max player potential
>train AI to read custom uploaded player logos for their own personal Crew Flags, so no porn or slurs or dogwhistles get through, and the company makes money (I know none of you are buying anyway lmao)
>thinking Black Desert might be the best combat style for the concept, but I could be swayed, I'm not married to it
>ship combat isn't broken in the first place, just need to make cooler weapons to shoot things with, like how SoT made curse balls
>breathing magic for diving adventures
>if you dig close enough to the sea on an island you can hit the waterline and collect filtered water
>a fully developed story that takes you literally everywhere that isn't forced-crew content, with cosmetics tied to it
>achievements with cosmetics
>hookers, booze and card games to be had at bars
>pirate-inspired fatasy races
thank goodness you aren’t designing the next mmo
Anon, I already know I made a better game in the 8mins it took to think up and type that than you could make if you had years.
>ctrl-f "AI"
>1 of 71
???
There are actually only 6, gotta use the spaces.
>AI
No, it's modding. You know, the thing responsible for Blizzard (and Valve's) success in the first place.
Just make a game with good progression where players can't be everything on the same character.
We just need someone to get Korean devs to make a good game and then don't let them monetize it.
>Make them good
Literally just make an mmo that plays like a real game. If they made a monster hunter, mmo, that didn't have any of the tacked on mmo design hallmarks, it would be the most successful mmo of all time
That Monster Hunter MMO existed and it sucked, turns out having 20 players zerging down a boss isn't better than having 4, it's just a lot more visual noise making it hard to see. We need a lot of the MMO design to give games with that many players a reason to exist.
More mmos should add the metagay kryptonite, RNG, not just loot but as a mechanic, when leveling, just like in RPGs, cant savescum an online gaem homosexual, so they will have to engage with the game to build their character instread of just copying the same build
It's better to go the opposite way and make it entirely skillbased, can't rely on meta builds and overpowered stats to do the fight for you if power is linked to your own personal ability to play the game well.
The mmo genre collapsed a long time ago, because in its heyday they primarily attracted people with the hitherto unseen opportunity to play and communicate with people from all over the globe (because the internet was still a novelty), as well as to form an alternative reality/new personality. Now morons with a deficit of communication fled to social networks (moron children from diapers in social networks and hung with cell phones, so mmo they fricked no shit, they autism and rest from the violence of communication in minecraft, or rather in even more fricked up clones of it, I forgot the fricking name - to send frick random schoolchildren is very good for the psyche), and in mmo except for multimasking grind and improving graphics so nothing new and invented for all the years. Genshin by the way was like a breath of fresh air on the background of all the stagnant swamp.
>Genshin by the way was like a breath of fresh air on the background of all the stagnant swamp
Genshin gameplay with some added attacks and 6 instead of 4 swaps would make for a pretty sick Pokemon game ngl.
>Genshin by the way was like a breath of fresh air on the background of all the stagnant swamp.
In what fricking way?
mmos have always been a genre that appealed mainly to failed normies who figured they could use success in game as cope for success irl. think about the comments you see in any mmo nostalgia thread. almost all of them are some type of brag like "I was the best pvper on x server" or "I was the first player to max x skill" or "I was in the top guild who did x." think about why they hate datamining and metagaming so much. if you don't want to know all of the game's secrets just don't look at the datamines. of course this isn't a real solution for these people because even if they don't look at it other players will, and then those other players will get ahead of them. it's the same with meta. no one is forcing you to min-max. even if pubs will kick you for playing off meta you can still play with friends, which is what these mmo fans claim they want. they hate meta because they want epeen for being the best and that means playing meta.
This is extremely accurate to my experience as well.
This is the stupidest post in this thread, congratulations.
I've been in guilds who don't care if they're behind "gear wise." This was of course when they made content for them, so they quit long ago.
>with the hitherto unseen opportunity to play and communicate with people from all over the globe (because the internet was still a novelty),
Can zoomers stop repeating this bullshit.
Just fricking kill it. Mmos are just shitty rpgs that other people are also playing.
Instead of simple stats equipment has a variety of detailed (non-randomized) effects and eventually unique bonuses that make minmaxing take more than just grabbing the biggest item level pieces
More than anything else, the SIMPLEST and MOST IMPORTANT choices you have to make on day 1
Regionban China from playing
Ban all public VPN nodes (obviously you can't stop every VPN but 99% of people will use the easily accessible ones)
If you do not do this, nothing else matters. End of story.
For player experience for sure. The problem is there are a LOT of people in China, and all those people buying accounts is huge.
It doesn't matter. Allowing chinks into your game is taking the short term profit in exchange for dooming your long term prospects. Nobody likes playing with chinks in their games and even normalgays are getting tired of them. They're worse than hues and pinoys ever were for the players, and because tencent owns so much it's impossible to get rid of them unless the developer takes a hardline stance.
Moar dicky.
>TFW back in the day we had so many random F2P MMO's popping up on the internet
>Would listen to OMAR FROM MMOHUT talk about them all the time
>Would try out like 3-4 different MMO's each month
Now we don't have hardly any F2P MMO's popping up anymore because it's dead. You have stuff like Warframe but that doesn't really feel like an MMO to me, and some of the F2P MMO's that pop up aren't even really RPG's, it's more like dungeon delving and filled with microtransactions.
Whatever happened to OMAR? Wasn't there some controversy that caused his dislike bar to be at 90% all the time?
I thought OMAR owned MMOHUT like it was his website or something, last I heard he sold out or sold it to some company and got out of the career/job, don't know what became of him. All I know is he reviewed every F2P MMO under the sun.
>OMAR FROM MMOHUT
I have no idea who that is, but I remember Steparu
>OMAR FROM MMOHUT
man, take me the frick back
this game was aesthetic as hell. it's a shame it was grindy korean slop.
>hi guys, it's Omer from MMOhuts dot com
Miss this homie like you wouldn't believe. Their channel official closed on youtube like a year ago too.
used to binge watch him. i miss that period so much
the World V2, wth all it entails
I rest my case
MMOs are fine, they're just in a form you don't like anymore.
>Inb4 some big modern MMO
No, Minecraft MMOs.
They're in a form that most people don't like anymore and that's a problem.
Because you're blinded by nostalgia, you're unwilling to look at anything except "what used to be" and "what those are now."
And you absolutely refuse to go outside your comfort zone. As a result, you will never be satisfied.
MMOs are objectively in a terrible state
Not the one I play.
>Okay, which one do you play?
I gave you all the information you need in the first post. If you have any "good MMO" bone in your body, you'll research it yourself, instead of sitting around on Ganker whining.
You don't play an MMORPG, you play a Minecraft mod. And I'll be damned if i ever give Microsoft any money
>you play a Minecraft mod
Wrong again. Can be played with a vanilla install.
>And I'll be damned if i ever give Microsoft any money
Now THAT is a valid complaint. I thankfully bought it way back when it was trending on Ganker well before Micro$oft even thought of buying it.
That generalization doesn't fit me at all, I want MMOs to change into something radically different instead of holding on to ancient practices. The addition of cash shops full of p2w, immersion-ruining cosmetics and autoplay combat hasn't improved the genre in the slightest but modern MMOs are littered with them, on top of all the issues held over from the old days like the "play forever" design.
There needs to be some kind of system, maybe a system controlled or enhanced by AI in some way, that breaks any attempt to build a meta around gameplay.
Literally an anti-sweatlord system that shoos away tryhards by constantly shifting variables and systems in fairly minor ways that keeps players from being excluded due to being 1% less effecient than the meta if everything was fixed. Something complex enough where it couldn't be read or interpreted as to what it is actually doing, allowing for more casual and varied combinations and tactics to be tried without everyone immediately sucking 100% of the fun out of the game by shitting on them for trying something different.
If there was any other content than top-end raids it wouldn't be an issue
Along with this, put in serious data mining and code protections. Players shouldn't know the deep inner workings of some systems unless it positively enhances gameplay by slowly learning and recognizing how something is working. The big problem with this is that to really stop it most things would need to be kept server side which greatly impacts how the game plays. See version 1.0 of FFXIV.
make exactly the same game as vanilla/tbc except instead of hitting a level cap at end-game let you gain more exp but only through raiding. Kinda like how only real high level areas give exp in Diablo 2 but it'd take a very long time to level up through raiding
First: Remove 'end game' brainrot from the genre.
Yes there is an 'end game' in every MMO, but its the end of the fricking game, not the beginning of the real game. The "real game" should start at level 1, both newbros and vets should be encouraged to group together instead of putting artificial bullshit in the games to give vets a false sense of elitism by gating newbros.
Second: Stop streamlining fun out of the game for a false sense of 'balance'
Give players thousands of options to play with, to build their own characters and abuse mechanics to find different niches to exploit, is a summoner really really good at farming this one thing, while a sneaky rogue is good at farming something else? Good!
Third: Stop capping group sizes
Again part of that ellitism nonsense, if people can blow through your content by having better social skills to make stronger guilds, this is a good thing, and makes a stronger community. MMOs are always generations behind other games, so if you can't make a good social game, you're just making a worst version of Monster Hunter or Dogshit version of a gacha game
Fourth: make an MMO, not a live service single player game
Test and build around dozens, or even hundreds of players active in the same gameplay space, if you don't build for this your game falls apart as an "MMO" and you're better off just making a gacha game if you wanted to make liveservice dogshit
Finally: PVP is the ultimate 'end game'
Give players a reason to fight that is 100% optional, but comes with bragging rights, such as putting your guild's name on the map, don't expect people to sit around killing the same boring ass bossfight over and over and over until they're full BIS, because gear is a tool, killing dragons for the best items is pointless if the items, the tools you get from it, are useless because you can't use them outside of killing those same dragons you've already killed for their drops.
I think the last MMORPG I played was BLESS Online and it was fun for like 2-3 days and then I got bored of it. This was like 5 years ago, and it feels like it was just a year or two ago...
I remember Ganker had these threads nonstop around the Tera/Wildstar days. Outside of the instance and asocial features one of the biggest problems is devs creating MMOs with a finite amount of consumable content, a la themepark MMO. Once you reach this level they put you on the treadmill and you grind x y dungeon increase your gearscore rinse repeat. Very content expensive, non massively multiplayer gameplay that always ends in closure or a skeleton crew once the hype runs dry. This was called vertical progression and always invalidated previous content, and players eventually get bored of being funneled into a single path.
The best MMO I've seen do horizontal progression was RO, where players could customize their characters stats, gear, skill trees according to their grinding paths. I remember some were better than others, but others were far more profitable if they obtained rare drops from whatever exclusive mobs were in the map. Leveling to max wasn't the main goal but the journey, and players could hunt rare cards, or my personal favorite, hunting for hats that also weren't insignificant from a min/maxing perspective due to their bonus stats. This formula was fricking proven with the popularity of pservers back then, and they probably had very few content updates.
Why not an adventure MMO with tiers instead of levels based off of the Adventurer's Guild in fantasy stories? NPCs and players give quests/challenges/tasks; defeat enemies, collection (from junk to rare items), or even exploring new areas as a scout. The rewards are the progression. These quests/challenges/tasks could be repeatable or non-repeatable based on certain qualifiers, like if the reward is too good to have many of it's a one-timer, or even only repeatable every X days/hours. Hell, add events and activities to that. PvP battles, competitions, treasure hunt races. The events would would on a scheduled basis.
What are the rewards?
I won't frick your mom tonight.
Sounds like vertical progression to me
RO and UO are the only MMOs I can stand from a conceptual perspective - but they both play like shit shit SHIT with the top down point-click cluster frick.
just give me ro or uo in a 3d interface with wasd + mouse look
Actually go back into being a MMORPG and being social.
Get rid of duty/dungeon/raid finders.
Just make a MMO that's the vidya version of this
>encourages creating a new character from the beginning if you die, because permadeath
>characters that get far ahead actually mean something
>classes are unbalanced, they actually have unique abilities and gameplay features that only they can use
>stats aren't crazy 900000+ dmg
>group play is encouraged because nobody is soloing this shit trust me
>magic weapons and armor, even the low level ones, have impact because the extra stat boost/dmg resistance actually matters, hence giving you incentive to go into the dungeon and kill some things, because you can't buy them from NPCs
>there is no BiS gear, drops are random based on a die roll from a table of items
>magic items are scenario dependent based on their usefulness but all of them are better than their non-magic counterpart, which makes them worth keeping and not selling it away the moment you get another magic item
>max level is only 30+, don't need extra zeroes at the end because you can get a fulfilling gameplay experience in a shorter amount of more meaningful levels
>no "kill 10 boars" quests, in fact you don't even need to do quests to level up, quests are story narratives that should enhance the dungeoneering, not replace it
>plenty of pre-established dungeons and adventures to embark
You don't have to follow the exact class options here but it's a good start to base an MMO from. Something that actually will have meaningful player interactions and not "press button, auto group with randos that don't even talk to each other, teleport to dungeon, kill boss, queue another dungeon" x 10.
So ROTMG.
is no BiS gear
That's basically impossible, Anon.
Even if all gear were hyper-randomized, there would still be BiS gear, even without trading. It'd just be a hell grind.
You start going absolutely pscyho in the 2nd half of that list.
I think only you could ever make such a game.
You just want to play an overpowered wizard that shits on everything don't you?
No. A Wizard has shit for brain hit points and will most likely die after getting hit once or twice by a mob of its same level. But the wizard's CC spells will be damn handy for survival. But you need someone to actually take some hits. That's why you need to group. Fighters will be the only guys that can take a few hits before they die. Anon, it's not rocket science. We're just going to basics here.
>Even if all gear were hyper-randomized, there would still be BiS gear, even without trading. It'd just be a hell grind.
Take a look at this pic and determine which magical ability for a magic weapon would make it BiS? It's not that easy to determine because most of them are utility based that will provide some handy effect in certain situations. In a way, it's horizontal progression and not vertical, because once you've equipped yourself with a basic weapon from the merchant NPC, you're pretty much using that for most of your early game dungeoneering until you get some cool magic weapons, and even then, the damage you're dealing is not going to be exponentially better, you just get cool effects out of it. In this way, the world also somewhat becomes open worldish. When you get to really high levels, like 20+, if you survive that long, your reward is that you're basically untouchable and are only going to deal with massive threats that harm the empire you're in, or the stronghold you're safeguarding. At which case the game turns into a first person rts game (lmao) with siege battles but this part is controversial for sure, and is subject to debate to its inclusion, but I think these are cool options. No, seriously, every MMO designer should read these books (can be found online if you know where to look and they aren't even that long compared to the newer DnD stuff). They can learn a lot of things from it. The stats are simple. It's your choices and the people you group with that will make the game what it is.
So you just want to be an overpowered fighter don't you?
It would be a high demand class for grouping, sure. But fighters don't really have much in the way of special abilities other than their big hairy manly stat points which make then not die after getting hit by a goblin once. And they can wear heavy armor, which the other classes are outright banned by the DnD gods from. It's really all about strength and weaknesses. People are craving for games like this, whether they know it or not. Look how well received the souls games were. It's not about hard=good, it's that you need to pay attention to tactics and that it matters to your survival and success in-game. Simple things like needing a torch to enter a dungeon otherwise you can't see shit and suffer penalty to your attacks, adds to the flavour.
Just solely off this image, it's not possible to tell. And obviously different situations and party comps will say that X is greater than Y instead of the other way around.
A few possibilities:
>Draining
If a weapon can be actively farmed repeatedly and thus used like a multi-charge consumable, this one would be used significantly.
>Defending
Possibility of a hybrid tank setup.
>Flaming
Almost guaranteed best in slot for any content involving the Undead or treants and their kin.
>Flying
Automated attacking so one can either perform other actions or simply focus on not dying.
Etc. etc. You seem to misunderstand what BiS means. It doesn't mean "for every occasion." BiS is almost always aimed at specific content.
>You seem to misunderstand what BiS means. It doesn't mean "for every occasion." BiS is almost always aimed at specific content
You're right. What I meant to say is, you as a player will have the incentive to go and find different types of weapons/armors/scrolls, etc because of the varying effects they can give. So it's more of a horizontal gearing system than a vertical one.
the most powerful is clearly wishing since wish is a completely broken mechanic. the second strongest is slicing since it has a 15% chance to proc instant death scaling all the way to 35% with a +5 weapon.
i still play and enjoy ESO. they are working on a new mmo thatll be pretty awesome when its finally released, they wont be moronic this time hopefully and have an engine properly built this time
I played that game for six fricking years since 2015, and I refuse to have that kind of optimism until I there's a playable demo.
its f2p on epic
ive literally played all the mmos and its definitely the best one, its probably not for you though, else you would have played it already
hyped to hear about their next year's expansion in january , and each patch they do always adds huge QOL and content.
???
I said I played ESO for six years. My account was CP 1800 when the cap was 810. I don't care about grinding for cosmetics items, I've soloed nearly all the veteran dungeons on sorc and dk. Got all the trial achieves except for trifectas. There's nothing left in the game for me.
oh im moronic, i was just waking up
i thought you said you played it 6 years ago and wanted a demo of eso
im a casual player for pve content so its still comfy fun and i have years of content left to do
It's cool that you enjoy ESO. I just hate that the content I enjoy is steadily disappearing from the genre without any suitable replacements. Getting your ass handed to you in open world content just isn't the same in single player games.
oh also, i think its safe to be optimistic because ESO has been 100% consistent and each patch they do is pretty good improvements to the game with qol and the entire team isn't making dumb decisions constantly. their choices have been pretty good.
like unless they have a moronic director who goes all in on dumb ideas, itll be a safe bet that itll be a decent mmo worth your time.
like, nothings perfect and i dont have grand delusions about it, itll just be well made and the devs will know what they are doing, unlike people who go full copium about unproven devs like lazy peon over ashes of creation, that shit is going to be dog shit anyone with half a brain can see its going to crash and burn the second it launches
No leveling, no classes, no quests.
So a sandbox survival MMO? Yea we need more of those.
>ITT people not understanding that wow has always been a vertical MMO, even in vanilla
You mean this guy?
All of wow is about vertical progression. Retail just cheapens the shit out of your progression constantly. The next raid tier will have items better than the shit you just worked your ass for months to get. Vanilla and TBC were focused on vertical as well but gear lasted way, way longer and didn't have nearly as many catch-up mechanics
I don't know why anyone would disagree with that
didn't say they'd disagree with it, I'm just saying some people here don't seem to understand what vanilla was. it's a game that is 99% focused on vertical progression
its augmented reality where you wear glasses with non-obstructive details above the heads of other people wearing the glasses.
>their level
>their rank
>exploration mapping (how far you've actually been to places
>glasses track have a camera pointed at your eyes from within so you can't cheat and just tape it to a car and drive it around
>it can also tell when you're in a car and you don't gain as much xp as walking to somewhere new
>
I can't imagine the battery life on those being any decent and asking people to carry around a battery pack on them to "play" for more than an hour or two would be a tall order.
01). force people to form parties before entering the gameworld. like in any PvP game.
02). add an option to choose your own party of friends or to have the game automatically make a party for you. you can also just join a random party missing a member if they pick you.
03). remove all in-game friend systems and chats. Force players to give eachother individually randomized single-use "friend codes" to join parties.
04). allow parties to votekick players. kicked players are returned to party-making screen.
05). allow parties missing a member to vote on a random new party member to join their game. they are given options for candidates and are able to do things like inspect gear.
06). make the maximum party size something reasonable, like 3-6 people.
07). parties can also post friend codes to add someone to their team. you can join your buddies team via friend codes.
08). make the content incompatible with minmaxing. create objectives that are either server-randomized, or with boolean outcomes.
09). give parties tasks that benefit the entire community of players. give the server finite resources and have GMs decide the needed tasks for the community.
>example: server resources indicate there's not enough wood. an algorithm makes certain parties responsible for chopping trees. not enough trees? some parties now have to plant instead of chop.
10). have combat be simulated based off of the acquisitions of the individual, party, guild, raidgroup, etc. rather than explicit real-time methods.
>example: your party finds a wolf. party members vote to fight or flee. individual votes are counted seperately.
>3 people vote fight. 3 people vote flee.
>one fighter deals lots of damage because he was working out at the gym.
>one fighter isn't strong enough and gets bitten and bleeds. He has good healing so he doesn't get infected.
>one fighter almost dies because he was a basic b***h. Because 2 other teammates voted fight, he gets to live, but the damage is shared with everyone.
11). give player group decisions "synergy", not just their builds. fighting or fleeing can distract a monster in different ways.
>Example: choosing to fight allows other players to flee more successfully.
>choosing to flee may backfire making the monster pursue you instead of the fighters.
12). allow the server to keep track of the status of your party. if everyone dies, the run is over.
13). allow characters to be a collection of useful traits, instead of min-maxed numbers.
>Example: member 1 is a master blacksmith which means he is extremely senile but can make gear that never breaks.
>member 1 is also a golem meaning he has absurd defenses, but is too heavy to flee.
14). allow macro-level decision making via party coordination.
>Example: if too much wood is harvested. parties can vote to pillage the wood, burn it or other things.
>these votes are treated like "factions" and can work together to get their way.
>all factions have a mixture of benefits and consequences making each option worthwhile.
>Example: burning all the wood may make a nature god appear in the server which is really hard to beat raid boss.
15). have the economy affect specializations, and not individual goods.
>Example: fishing industry is shitting itself. fishing yields less rewards.
>iron industry is booming. mining yields more rewards.
i can't think of any more.
VR and action combat
The recipe for a great MMORPG has been more or less solved: semi-regular updates (frequent enough to prevent people from running out of content, infrequent enough to make the current content worth running for gear/accomplishments/etc.), an environment that promotes emergent gameplay from the playerbase, multiple options for customisation/free expression, with high-value cosmetics/titles/etc that let you show off to others, and worthwhile characters that let the playerbase obsess over them. Those are a few qualities of successful MMOs, but those aren't the reasons MMOs aren't being picked up.
Unironically, they need to come up with a better monetisation strategy. MMOs became so well supported because they could guarantee that a certain amount of players; a.k.a a consistent cash flow. During the golden days of MMOs, this was one of the most profitable business models for games, and so MMOs would get the funding they needed to produce good quality games. Nowadays, there are more profitable business models, like lootboxes, gacha games, battlepasses, etc., so companies willing to throw money to get their return tend to put it into those games instead. MMOs need to monetise in a way that maximise players (a large playerbase is imperative for a healthy MMO) whilst having them spend as much as they can.
There's no reason why an MMO can't have just a box price without cash shops or subscription fees if they design it to have a shorter lifespan, a shorter lifespan means players can get to the good parts sooner without spending a ridiculous amount of time doing filler content. There can be a couple of expansions breathing new life into it after the FotM wears off and then it's on to the sequel introducing new content and mechanics starting the hype cycle all over again.
Because most MMOs are expected to have a long lifespan. That's part of the appeal of the genre; feeling like you're going to be able to get in at the (comparative) ground floor and build up their account to a noteworthy level. MMOs dont really choose their lifespans, they go as long as they possibly can. They need a consistent money flow to do that.
The fact that they're designed with a long lifespan is one of the primary reasons why they are so awful at capturing new players, very few players want to be overwhelmed by 10-20 years worth of content shoved into one game where there's an established meta full of elitists, they want to join when it's fresh and people are still figuring things out. Having that much stuff in one game also makes it impossible to make a sequel that lives up to the previous game, how on earth would you go on about making a sequel to WoW without it being massively underwhelming? The shorter lifespan box price model of regular games is even better at future-proofing your franchise than creating one game that is meant to last forever and sees steady decline.
No I described regular games like Elden Ring and Monster Hunter.
The long lifespan isn't the thing that makes an MMO difficult to recruit new players for. The actual issue is when an MMO feels like it's near the end of its lifespan and/or like there's little updates happening. Even if a game's had a long lifespan, if the player feels like it's still fresh, there's value to starting because it still feels close to the ground floor. That's why expansions are so useful: they re-level the playing field by invalidating the power level from the last expansion. This (as well as other catch-up mechanics) can run the risk of previous content feeling like a drag to get through just to make it, but it's better than having a stale MMO.
being old is not a problem. age of empires 2 is almost 25 years old and I can start playing tomorrow and be fine. the problem is that mmo players are obsessed with feeling special so the games are full of gatekeeping mechanics and fomo shit.
You just described the seasons & battlepass systems.
I have an idea
I need 3 billion $
Make an RP enforced mmo
Randomize shit. Not dungeon layouts but the mobs and bosses in them. The fight to make a good mmo is one against easy access to information, also weirdos who think acting like tryhards is how everyone should be.
Remember WOD
The best way to simulate the feeling of playing an MMO in the the olden days is actually something like Space Station 13,
a smaller game with set rounds, where people have to roleplay in the literal sense, play a role.
And have some randomization thrown in so you cant look everything up.
Its still not perfect but it certainly beats modern MMOs.
ahh frick... anyone else played Lineage 2 when it officially came out? Not that version that is up today, but the OG one... those were the time
time for nostalgia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23-WDbZla6g
Back then you won't be able to autotoggle soulshots... but honestly, L2 was always a korean turd with artificially wide progression. It only has a nostalgia value. Recently I've made my private server, now I can't unsee many flaws this game has
>Recently I've made my private server,
is this easily done without much hassle? i've always dreamt of just exploring everything teh world has to offer at my own pace.
>true hardcore MMO for true autists
>highly influence by the old Lineage 2
>shits on WoW
He's the last chance remaining for the genre, will he save it or will he put the final nail to the coffin?
Make it appeal to naive and pure newer gen.
MMOs are populated by 30-40yo boomers who are either drunkards, no-lifers, or gold buyers. I mean just go on one. If you have above 125 iq and don't drink yourself to death it's unbereable and uncool. Kids like cool stuff.
Separate the world into a private and public realm.
A save zone for your character and the wild west.
Make the game a series of hallways and loading screens.
gacha mmo
lineage 2 on Ganker never thought I'll see it.
My idea for an MMO.
>gameplay similar to vanilla wow/everquest. tab target with low skill floor and moderate skill ceiling
>zones consist of towns, solo-friendly / quest areas, open world dungeons, and maybe an instanced dungeon
>instanced dungeons are the hardest content and drop the best stuff, but are on long lockout times forcing players to interact in the world
>open world dungeons drop stuff that is equivalent to crafting gear and is overall only a little worse than the loot found in instanced dungeons
>solo-quest areas drop the worst loot
>player characters have great differences depending on choices made at character creation, race, class, religion, and traits change how characters interact with the world
>immersion first design, have designated climbable walls, interactable environments, and the fastest way to regenerate health/mana is by making campfires and sitting with other players
>limited hotbars, can only have 12 abilities and 4 items bound at a time
>classes have anywhere from 20-35 abilities and what abilities you choose to bring and what stats you emphasize change what your character is capable of
>classes designed with certain roles in mind, but also have some flavorful skills that might be used in creative ways
Those are the most important points, but crafting, gathering, secondary life skills, player housing, and player ran shops would also be in there.
>gameplay similar to vanilla wow/everquest
dropped
The developers cannot make anything without it being scrutinised under a microscope.
Instead, you focus on emergent gameplay and allow high levels of interaction with the world and players.
Allow people to hide stuff in drawers, write in books/letters, bury treasure, buy and sell homes within cities and not in instances.
Everyone's "proposals" to svae MMOs are always Wildstar-based ideas, it's hilarious
-I should be allowed to grief hundreds of players 24/7 and they can't do anything about it, also I can't get griefed in turn, that's not nice
>people should have to manually form parties of diverse builds if they even want to play, over half your game is is spamming on chat
Literally will have 2000 players and get cancelled in a year. Even Albion and EVE had to adapt and controls their griefers.
moron.
Sure, but good luck getting people to join your meat grinder. People don't tolerate you anymore.
Don't let China play
Final Fantasy XI is the perfect game but I've accepted the fact that the MMO playerbase has changed over the past 20 years and those games just can't exist anymore. This was pretty clear after playing Horizon which primarily consisted of veteran players yet felt nothing like classic FFXI.
>Lineage2
You only got NCSoft themselves to blame for destroying that game since the start. I was there in 2004 to 2006, and it was a shitshow.
Whole clans of Chinese farmers grinding the raidbosses on spawntime and keeping the general playerbase away from them.
The casual players quit in a beat.
The players left just buy gold and gear from the chinks.
You could drop gear when trained by mobs.
It was a shitshow. In later Chronicles it got better, but the economy was always the same bullshit. Until GoD expansion, which destroyed the game and never recovered. And the previous chronicles weren't much better. Started with Sleep spell overpowerd. Then C4 dominated by necros, Interlude dominated by destroyers. A cycle of severe buffs and nerfs, not exactly funny when the class you've been playing for a year gets nerfed into nothingness.
But ei, just pay the chinks to powerlevel you a new character.
Shit game from the start.
they are inherently designed on time = reward. Not effort = reward. thus they will always be shit and feel like doing chores. if you aren't a child or a low testosterone fat male you can't sit through this braindead slog
also change of culture. people dont really communicate anymore. so the social aspect, which was the only real fun part of MMORPGs, is way worse now making these games even less appealing
Singleplayer with online features including multiplayer is kino
Gemstone but in 3D.
With the advent of datamining, competitive "meta" mentality for a cooperative fricking game experience, the absolute indolence of not keeping PvP and PvE completely and totally separate from each other so there is constant bickering and mudslinging whenever one side of the aisle makes a change that directly affects the other, the absolute necessity of a major corporation backing the projects also including extremely hostile work-altering and crippling choices (fire the QA team and only hire ground-meat interns to mill in and out, replace GMs and customer service with bots that only use tally systems, etc), and a playerbase who makes excuses for overwhelmingly degenerate community choices?
Let it die. Much like geocities and a completely decentralized internet information highway, they are outdated and the modern platforms and communities have proven again and again and again and again and again what their consensus about what makes an MMORPG an MMORPG is. It's fricking over.
What game is that?
Posting this right before the bump limit, but you can't save the genre.
The market for a "good" MMO simply doesn't exist these days, the fanbase for that kind of experience is long gone.
"Classic" MMOs don't make enough money, they require too much dev time and too much work, people don't care about the lore or complex quests, they don't care about complex stats or skills, it's just not going to happen.
Can't make PVP heavy games because the losing player quits.
Can't make hardcore MMOs because losing makes people quit.
Can't go without a big cash shop because players don't like buying subs.
Can't make progression interesting because players rush through it to endgame where the rest of the playerbase is.
Can't have complex skill/stat systems because that confuses players and makes them want to leave.
Can't do paid subs because there's a bazillion free options, and unless you're a big-name franchise, nobody wants to gamble on you.
Can't incentivize long-term play and long complex raids that you can get lost in because most MMO players have jobs and busy lives now.
Guilds are dead because players just use Discord.
Raids are dead because getting LEEROY JENKINS'd makes people quit and because most randos don't give a shit about strategy or skill.
Chatting in-game is dead because Discord.
Plus MMOs took a huge hit when people stopped buying PCs, and playing MMOs on a phone sucks dick.
This but really, the solution is to find ways to develop these games for a fraction of the cost and designed for 1000 players, rather than old MMOs like Ragnarok that were made for tens of thousands.
We don't need AI to replace players, we need AI to replace developers.
Guys I just want a fat hairy foreveralone nerdy gf to play MMOs with... how to find?
Well... it's me. But I'm a man and I'm 45 years old, that's okay, right, anon?
>45
Yeah that's fine.
>man
No thanks.
It's over WoW destroyed it and AAA publishers make sure nothing good will ever get produced and nu-devs will make sure to never improve or collaborate or be able to not be doormats for wokeling ideology that turns every 10 man indie into a micro culture of subsistence petty litigation meaningless drama. It's over
Permanence is the problem with MMOs. They should be sandboxes where players are essentially setting quests by paying people to get stuff they want. Armor and weapons should break permanently and you’ll need to go get more so there’s no ultimate gear BS. If you capture monsters for a class, the monsters should permanently die if killed. Stats and HP should be set by gear only not levels. Griefers will be a thing but most players will be paying others to go kill them and they’ll rarely have good equipment like they do in modern MMORPGs
The MMO golden age (I'd say pre-2007) was great because there was no Discord and datamining/info about the games meta was scarce, so you had to socialize in game for most info. It also had the benefit of being part of the early internet (early Youtube, YTMND, Ganker, etc.), so there was a lot of quality shenanigans going on. Being young and stupid also helped.
Nowadays, MMO's feel like glorified mobile games with (you'd hope) better gameplay and graphics. The next golden age of MMOs will have to innovate hard, probably once we achieve VR gameplay that cover all 5 senses kinda like Ready Player One or Sword Art Online.
>anon never heard of teamspeak
I feel like more people used IRC than teamspeak and even then, those two weren't as normie friendly like discord is.
irc had calls/voice?
I feel like all the idea people in these threads are forgetting the game actually has to make money to stay online. Making a "muh hardcore super elite" MMO will never work. Ever.
Just make an anime MMO with e-girls and no censorship and it's a guaranteed hit.
Easy. Get rid of the marketing and DEI department. Find people that actually want to make a fun game they want to play.
MMOs have to go back to being niche games for NEETs and retired software engineers.
Ban everyone using a female character
>B-you NEED to have a carrot on a stick for people to play the game!
Did all those battle passes, level unlocks in FPS games and all the other shit permanently rotted people's brains to the point where they can't even imagine doing something for fun rather than some arbitrary number going up?
>they can't even imagine doing something for fun rather than some arbitrary number going up?
Unironically yes. There are people that aren't like this but the vast majority of people who will support infrastructure costs to keep your game alive require stuff like this now.
Porn MMO
>Fetish = Classes
>Kinks = Subclasses
>PvP = Rape (People would be grinding specific kinks by losing)
>Raid bosses rape you on defeat
Shocked we've never seen something like that already.
fricking coomers go in the woodchipper feet first
romanceable npcs
>2000 NPCs
players
>company starts making NPCs polyamorous
>option to use real money to "buy" the NPC for yourself only
>company duplicates the NPC with a different name
>starts getting too crowded, has to go leaveyamory
>makes marriages difficult to sustain even if you spend real money just so she forcedly divorces you and other players can have their run with your (ex-)wife
Kill the GE
>b-but it’s fast and efficient
have a nice day, the game isn’t about insta-buying resources whenever you want
>b-but I have to talk to people!!!
Yes, that’s what the M in MMORPG stands for. Multiplayer
>b-but they’re trying to scam me!!!
So tell them to frick off
>b-but I want [thing] nowwwwww!!! Muh xp/hour!!
Boo hoo b***h, go gather the resource yourself
>b-but people will just set ups 3rd party forum to trade on!!!
Yah good luck with that. Trading post died immediately and the official RS forums are chock full of necroposts and necrothreads of players trying to buy or sell something
TOTAL GE DEATH
I wish there were more MMOs that allowed playing as a non-combat class. BDO kind of attempted this but I don't think it did it well.
Crafting always feels like an accessory to combat classes instead of a thing on its own.
Add more adult content and less grind.
ruined by bots and google gamers looking for strategy guides. Its irredeemable and microtransactions is unironically keeping it afloat. Imagine being a dev and building a massive world only for the playerbase to reduce it to an arena or an optimized pathing route
Any new 2D MMOs coming out in 2024?
Idiots, do this but MMO-sized. Solved.
>make a boring, repetitive game but with more people
how about no
>implying a dev can't just replace the boring repetitive content with actually interesting content
ngmi cope. solved.
Yup. Many devs are also trying it in korea but there's no way of knowing for sure if it's a superior format until it's hit the market.
I would be curious how much overlap there is between the MMO crowd and the people that gravitate towards those crafting / survival style games like Valheim or Rust
>just make it like this game but totally different and make more content
wow, what an ingenious plan
>this is what a lack of imagination does to an mf
This might come as a shock to you anon, but games have these things called levels where you go to different locations and do different things in each one. Some levels are shit and some levels are really good. You're not playing a brand new game each time a level changes, it's the same game but with varied content.
isnt that basically what the new game is from the people who made no mans sky
Consider the following:
Don't design MMOs as if they were mobile games.
I see an MMORPG with dailies in them and I'm outta there.
>I see an MMORPG with dailies in them and I'm outta there.
No you're not. that's literally the point of dailies. to keep you there forever.
And yet MMOs are dead now. Intradesting. Very intradesting.
Ganker has dailies yet you post in it, curious.