One big thing I hate about Pokemon is that it has so many moves and abilities that interact specifically with berries, but berries aren't really run outside of very specific circumstances.
Yeah, it really feels like they expect berries to be way more important but outside of sitrus, the occasional weakness berry for the 4x weakness mons and resto chesto you never see them
Berries essentially got powercrept. There's so many crazy useful items now that you'll hardly find more than one berry per team, if even that, even if you're playing with item clause like in VGC. They even nerfed the pinch berries in gen 8.
It's only good on a handful of pokemon for specific strats like shed tail chicanery. 99% of the time you're better off running the meta items like boots, lefties, life orb or choice items.
Yeah, it really feels like they expect berries to be way more important but outside of sitrus, the occasional weakness berry for the 4x weakness mons and resto chesto you never see them
Berries essentially got powercrept. There's so many crazy useful items now that you'll hardly find more than one berry per team, if even that, even if you're playing with item clause like in VGC. They even nerfed the pinch berries in gen 8.
Berries used to be completely useless beyond the first gym because they'd disappear after use.
Let the player farm them again and have a deliveryman bring them to a Pokemon Center so you don't have to keep going back to a single location for more.
Spectrier ran hyper beam for a bit back in SwSh. Granted that was because in gen 8 it got shit coverage so a neutral type nuke was the best thing it had outside of dark pulse and shadow ball, but getting a guaranteed kill isn't bad at all unless you're letting your opponent set up immediately afterwards
Sand attack was only learnable by like 5 evolution lines and only feels common because pidgey gets it at level 5
Smokescreen was only on 3 lines
If for whatever god forsaken reason you wanted your alakazam to have an accuracy debuff, this was actually the best option, it just so happened to be viable for one half of a generation before it got double team in gen 2
(I know double team requires a single use TM and isn't a debuff but I still consider it objectively better in every scenario)
>(I know double team requires a single use TM and isn't a debuff but I still consider it objectively better in every scenario)
Because it is. There were no phasing moves in gen 1.
>Status move learned at level 63 that inflicts regular poison instead of toxic poison.
Honestly, if they're going to keep this exclusive to fricking Ariados, then it should badly poison and decrease speed by 2 stages.
I don't know why they made this move, just for ariados, in gen 7 of all things
And I don't know why they cut Ariados's other, better signature move but kept this one
It's funny because Guzma has an Ariados in SM (replaced with the butthole ev trained Masquerain in USUM) so you'd think that they gave Ariados a new move because of that. But since it learns it at level fricking 63 it doesn't have it until the post game rematch, at which point an Ariados is a meme enemy anyway.
No, String Shot hits both opponents in doubles and lowers speed two stages.
Toxic Thread only hits one and only lowers one stage.
String Shot is a legitimately good support move, held back by being tied to shitmons, but if Ariados could do that and inflict passive damage on both opponents, it might have even had a niche.
Nope, they're giving it an evolution with a game-specific method, you're asking way too much if you think they'll buff a Johtomon directly outside of getting to use Eviolite by nature of that evolution.
This would actually be a decent move if it worked like String Shot with poison.
I could even see it being decent if it merely got switched to a bug type move, especially with twineedle gone.
Removing that immunity would at least make it more interesting than electroweb
Imagine if this was a combination of Toxic Spikes + Sticky Web. Ariados would still be mostly useless, but it least might have a bit more of a niche in lower tiers.
Hatterene absolutely can't afford to run this shitty meme move in doubles, it has a very specific and important job to do and needs all of its usual tools.
In singles it's better off setting up with calm mind.
There should be an ability that negates the recharge turn for moves like this. Or at least, takes some hp to use consecutively. There are a lot of recharge moves that are good but worthless in actually gameplay. Or make an ability like Gen 1 hyperbeam.
Magic has been associated with Psychic. >Abra line being stage magicians >Hoopa being a wish granger >Will and Avery >Magic Room and Magic Coat >Magic Guard and Magician being almost exclusive to Psychic Pokémon or Pokémon that can evolve into Psychic types >Prior to Gen 6, Magic Bounce was exclusive to Psychic Pokémon and after Megas left they are now exclusive >Trick (stage tricks) - also why Meowscarada the stage magician without psychic powers can learn it via level up >Hatterene being based on a forest witch and having this move as her signature >Eerie Spell >Tulip comparing cosmetics to magic
The only 2 Magic moves related with Fairy are Dazzling Gleam (Magical Shine) and Magical Torque.
Almost everything else points to magic being strongly associated with Psychic.
This is the worst one imo, it increases defense by two stages and has only 10 pp. Acid armor does the exact same thing and it has 20pp. Hisuian Goodra learns acid armor. Idk what gamefreak was smoking
[...]
Singles: Mirror Herb plus Chlorophyll in the sun on a predicted switch in?
Doubles: Same but with follow me support and costar flamigo?
I've seen a few Spicy Extract meme teams in VGC, you use on a partner with Clear Amulet and if anything tries to use Follow Me it still get fricked from the defense drop.
[...]
I've seen a few Spicy Extract meme teams in VGC, you use on a partner with Clear Amulet and if anything tries to use Follow Me it still get fricked from the defense drop.
I’ve seen Clear Body Dragapult paired with it, which can be pretty nasty if it gets going
Technically not a bad Ground-type move. A great one, maybe. 90 BP, hits all opponents but not your side in Doubles, doesn't get lowered by Grassy Terrain. A very good Earthquake replacement except.... Zygarde has two other signature moves that do the exact same thing but with trapping or the ability to hit flying types added. A good move outclassed by god-tier moves.
>>give to other ground types
I'm glad that you guys don't work for GameFreak. You frickers would break the game with some of this shit.
>Let's give every flying type Aeroblast >Let's give every normal type Judgement >Let's give every fire type Blue Flare >Let's give every dark type Dark Void >Let's give every steel type Doom Desire
>gamefreak gave sacred sword to pokemon where it makes actual sense >therefore everyone single normal type pokemon in existence should get judgment!!11!11!!!
6 months ago
Anonymous
unironically what would be wrong with normal types having judgement
it would still be a normal type move and we had return for seven whole gens and that was actually STRONGER
6 months ago
Anonymous
Point me to who in the thread made this suggestion besides yourself
6 months ago
Anonymous
The discussion was about Land's Wrath you fricking moron.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Comes in to the thread >makes an intentionally bad faith reading of a post >expands that bad faith reading well beyond reason and spergs out >"Im not moronic you are!!!"
Go take a nap
I am so surprised nobody has mentioned Twineedle yet which is probably only beaten in shittyness by moves that are bugged (Focus Energy) and moves that are intentionally shit (Splash)
why do they keep making incredibly niche status moves that either use or counter the most niche and inefficient strategies possible
do the gamefreak move designers actually know how their game is played or do they just live in a bubble
no there is a difference between a move being niche and having a niche
things like magic powder have a use that is useful in about 2% of situations, where the buffs to toxic thread that anons proposed would *give* ariados a niche because no one else could do it
Octazooka. Unusable garbage even in the generation it was introduced in.
Bad bp, bad accuracy, bad secondary effect, not even guaranteed to proc when it hits.
Why is this so bad. Even if it crits it's barely stronger than Sludge Bomb (in gen 3 mechanics, in modern gens even with a crit it's weaker than Slduge Bomb) and it doesn't even badly poison. This could be 80 BP with a 100% chance to Toxic and it still wouldn't have made Seviper broken.
>Why is this so bad
Because this was when Pokemon was still designed with conventional RPG mechanics in mind.
Not every move should or needs to be some super competitive PvP move. Some moves simply exist to give a Pokemon a solid early-to-mid game option.
Yeah, these days many moves need buffs since Pokemon isn't designed with the philosophy of an RPG in mind any more.
>Because this was when Pokemon was still designed with conventional RPG mechanics in mind.
No, not really. It could've just learned Sludge instead if that was the only reason, it's effectively the same move. Besides, Seviper only appears in 1 small route and is rare, so it's not like it'll leave a big impression on you the way something like a Weedle's Poison Sting will.
Redundancy is also a part of RPGs. Leagaye, Branch Poke, and Vine Whip are all effectively the same move (Vine Whip having 5 more base power as of Gen 6. There isn't a reason to have three variants of an early game move when all of these Pokemon can feasibly learn Vine Whip without presenting too many issues, but that's also boring. And creating moves, especially early game ones, don't take up to much development time and effort.
Yeah, Seviper could learn Sludge like you said, but Poison Tail lets it stick out to a player just a teensy bit more in a series where you can choose hundreds of Pokemon and all of them have to stick out in some way or another. One of Pokemon's biggest appeals is its sense of immersion after all.
>this is objectively a good move >effect only activates if Zygarde moves last >even though it's thematically meant to shut down auras, it can't hit Xerneas because it's Dragon
No, it's shit.
Core Enforcer should be physical and have an additional effect that lets it hit Fairy types. If Sacred Fire can be physical then Core Enforcer can too. Also, Zygarde’s Complete forme should be its own permanent forme and only have Aura Break as its ability
>Zygarde’s Complete forme should be its own permanent forme and only have Aura Break as its ability
Or alternatively have Power Construct become Aura Break when it switches forms.
I am still mad poor Darkrai had his Dark Void accuracy nerfed from 80% to 50% because of Smeargle's VGC shinanigans.
And at the same time they coded Dark Void to fail if used by anyone other than Darkrai, and Darkrai has never been legal in any official competition, so what was the fricking point!? It's now a crappier Hypnosis.
NTA but you should clarify the difference between a move being shitty and a move being shitty in singleplayer. Most moves are shitty in singleplayer where you can usually get away with just spamming attacks and status effects for your entire playthrough. That doesn't make moves or abilities designed for doubles or other competitive formats shitty, just redundant in the context of the average playthrough.
>Spiky Shield
the frick? It's a superior Protect. The reason it isn't completely broken is they weren't moronic with the distribution which is pretty funny considering Ferrothorn has an excuse
Gear Up is just barely not a signature move (Klinklang and Magearna are its only users, and it's gone in SV anyway), but also... why on earth would you EVER use it.
It's probably why it got the boot so early, there were zero use cases because Plus/Minus are garbage abilities even in a story mode sense due to how single battle focused the entire series is
But most of those moves and abilities suck in VGC too
They require high investment for little payoff, meanwhile your opponent can just set up and sweep
They're just pure noob bait
Take Alolan Muk for example, why would you run Power of Alchemy over Poison Touch?
>Take Alolan Muk for example, why would you run Power of Alchemy over Poison Touch? >he doesn't know
To inherit Moody after spamming Minimize. Power of Alchemy is the main reason to use Alolan Muk in VGC.
Or Receiver over Defiant, in a metagame full of Intimidate spam.
This is a better example, mainly because Passimian sucks in general, but also because Defiant is too good to pass up.
It's kind of like how Opportunist is a decent ability in theory, but there's no reason to bother with it when Espathra can run Speed Boost instead.
TPC isn't forcing Game Freak to do anything as Game Freak OWNS 1/3rd of TPC in the first place.
Anything that Game Freak decides to do isall on Game Freak.They don't make the main portion of the game Doubles because people will buy it anyway, Remember, they effectively got rid of dungeons/labrynths because kids kept getting confused by Mt. Coronet's design and moms complained, so they started making them much simpler starting with the next generation until they were entirely gone by Gen 8.
>make a move that's weaker or on par with already existing, usually more consistent coverage moves and TM's
Now it won't ever see use. >make a move that's stronger than already existing, usually more consistent coverage moves and TM's
Now you can't make stronger coverage moves to not step on the move's toes. A la volt tackle.
>My favourite legendary, the only signature move he has outside of fusion, has a sick ass jp name that got me hyped when it was found during the early leak days >Its just powder snow with 10 more bp and hits all 3 in tripple battles, a format they instantly dropped >Introduce the fusion mechanic in bw2, it mandatory replaces glaciate so you cant even use it with Kyurem-W's increased spatk
Not at all, since you don't want to run mixed it's basically only +4 in stats. Compared to Shell Smash, Clangerous Soul, No Retreat etc. taking half health just isn't worth.
>No Retreat
Hey, there's another one for the thread. >+1 omniboost >but can only be used once per battle (barring niche situations) >Close Combat being Falinks's best STAB means the defense boosts are largely worthless >as is the special attack boost obviously >meaning all Falinks really gets out of it is +1 attack and speed >so it's essentially Dragon Dance, but worse because you can only use it once >on a Pokemon with no base stat above 100
i believe the idea is that you can use recover to get the move off multiple times, but in practice veluza is much too frail for this to ever work.
pretty standard gimmickmon shit.
in made to master ball tier using it, and if i saw that it shoulnt work, u sed fricking final gambit instead just to kill something and open up my wincon, its not bad just hard to use, but most npcs gay meta prostitutes cant used because most of them are homosexuals with less braincells
What is the point of this move? Smelling salts signature move of the Hariyama line. Oddly made a normal type move so no stab. Had 60BP but doubles if the target is paralyzed but it cures the status. It is like GF couldn't decide to make this a beneficial move to help allies or punish the opponent. Anyway Hariyama can barely benefit off of this move due to only having access to body slam to potentially inflict paralysis. But if you are trying to combo to get the power boost your better off using mega kick since you get 120bp instantly at the cost of accuracy. The move is a mess, they should of made it a 10bp move to use in double battles so you can have a niche in curing paralysis since Hariyama is slow and probably be the last to act ensuring the cure.
>Why is this so bad
Because this was when Pokemon was still designed with conventional RPG mechanics in mind.
Not every move should or needs to be some super competitive PvP move. Some moves simply exist to give a Pokemon a solid early-to-mid game option.
Yeah, these days many moves need buffs since Pokemon isn't designed with the philosophy of an RPG in mind any more.
Just a silly ass ingame move meant to punish the player for not healing off your paralysis
If they keep wanting to add super specific gimmick moves that only work on doubles, they really need to start adding actual double battles to the game at some point so people can actually use them.
Has anyone ever actually even used Volt Tackle? You have to go so far out of your way to get it in a playthrough and it's not like anyone's gonna use it in comp.
I used it from gen 3 all the way up until alola raichu came out, im a sucker for signature moves so if a mon i like has one i try really hard to incorporate it
>We need a new Apple move !!! >weak 60 BP >85% Acc >Lower speed for ONLY 3turns
This is by far the worse signature move for a new pokemon. Even Dipplin is dogshit since it's ability work only one time
Syrup bomb doesn't lower speed for only three turns, it lowers speed EVERY turn for 3 turns.
The ability only activating once per battle sucks, but it isn't that bad.
You switch in, throw out a syrup bomb with 100% effective accuracy, then you can use draco meteor or pollen puff your ally.
Also, Dipplin can use eviolite, so it's actually very bulky.
>introduced in SWSH Isle of Armor DLC >each of the 18 types got 1 new tutor move >Bug type gets this >70 power >90 accuracy >DLC exclusive move outclassed by Leech Life, Lunge, even X-Scissor
And the only Pokemon that get it in SV are the Spidops, Tinkaton, and Lokix families
I thought this would be pretty funny to run online, just in case I see someone running snorlax :
Would be neat to see it used by a polteageist holding a stat boost berry too
That would be neat!
That's not too bad. Clearly meant to counter chestorest.
+atk berry hawlucha enabler
it has some use only in doubles
unless you want to try some berry tomfoolery
in singles
I played with teatime + cud chew for some doubles recently.
It's my my least favorite move, but as far as signature moves go, it is a bit lackluster.
This would be potentially really cool on a Pokemon with Unburden.
This feels like it was made to be a move that works with Z-stones kind of like Conversion or Hold Hands. Well, before they removed Z-moves.
This would be really cute if it worked with all “consumables” like mirror herb, power herb, etc.
One big thing I hate about Pokemon is that it has so many moves and abilities that interact specifically with berries, but berries aren't really run outside of very specific circumstances.
Yeah, it really feels like they expect berries to be way more important but outside of sitrus, the occasional weakness berry for the 4x weakness mons and resto chesto you never see them
Berries essentially got powercrept. There's so many crazy useful items now that you'll hardly find more than one berry per team, if even that, even if you're playing with item clause like in VGC. They even nerfed the pinch berries in gen 8.
Sitrus is as good as always
It's only good on a handful of pokemon for specific strats like shed tail chicanery. 99% of the time you're better off running the meta items like boots, lefties, life orb or choice items.
Heavy duty boots has 0% usage in VGC while sitrus is sporadically used on all sorts of Pokemon
>VGC
who cares
People who play it
That's basically the only one that still gets regular use. There's no point in dedicating an ability or move to counter that one berry.
Berries used to be completely useless beyond the first gym because they'd disappear after use.
How would you fix berries?
Let the player farm them again and have a deliveryman bring them to a Pokemon Center so you don't have to keep going back to a single location for more.
powder
Obligatory mention of Barrage
it should also activate if the powdered pokemon is hit by a fire-type move
I’ll list former ones, they still kinda count
Triple Kick
Spike Cannon
Bone Rush
all the ones that work like Hyper Beam
>all the ones that work like Hyper Beam
those aren't bad. they're gimmicky but not totally useless if you want to get a really strong hit off
Spectrier ran hyper beam for a bit back in SwSh. Granted that was because in gen 8 it got shit coverage so a neutral type nuke was the best thing it had outside of dark pulse and shadow ball, but getting a guaranteed kill isn't bad at all unless you're letting your opponent set up immediately afterwards
bone rush is ok if you use that new item that makes multi hit moves hit at least 4 times.
Wouldn't you just want to use Bonemerang and Thick Club anyways?
bone rush is not exclusive to cubone and marowak anymore.
>What if Sand Attack had worse accuracy for no reason
This one's especially hilarious because they forgot to actually give it to Kadabra/Alakazam in Gen 1, you could only call it through Metronome
In yellow wild kadabra have it so u gotta catch it
Why the frick they didnt make it so it also rises sp attack and sp def?
Same with meditate.
In gen 1 flash had 70 accuracy and this had 80
Sand attack was only learnable by like 5 evolution lines and only feels common because pidgey gets it at level 5
Smokescreen was only on 3 lines
If for whatever god forsaken reason you wanted your alakazam to have an accuracy debuff, this was actually the best option, it just so happened to be viable for one half of a generation before it got double team in gen 2
(I know double team requires a single use TM and isn't a debuff but I still consider it objectively better in every scenario)
>(I know double team requires a single use TM and isn't a debuff but I still consider it objectively better in every scenario)
Because it is. There were no phasing moves in gen 1.
>Status move learned at level 63 that inflicts regular poison instead of toxic poison.
Honestly, if they're going to keep this exclusive to fricking Ariados, then it should badly poison and decrease speed by 2 stages.
I don't know why they made this move, just for ariados, in gen 7 of all things
And I don't know why they cut Ariados's other, better signature move but kept this one
It's funny because Guzma has an Ariados in SM (replaced with the butthole ev trained Masquerain in USUM) so you'd think that they gave Ariados a new move because of that. But since it learns it at level fricking 63 it doesn't have it until the post game rematch, at which point an Ariados is a meme enemy anyway.
This would actually be a decent move if it worked like String Shot with poison.
That's what it does?
Obviously not since it's not a multi-target move.
No, String Shot hits both opponents in doubles and lowers speed two stages.
Toxic Thread only hits one and only lowers one stage.
String Shot is a legitimately good support move, held back by being tied to shitmons, but if Ariados could do that and inflict passive damage on both opponents, it might have even had a niche.
>Give Ariados a signature move
>Leave its BST at fricking 400 with no Evo
Needs an evoltion or a BST buff to 500
Ariados has a great design. I’d hate for it to get an ugly evo. Just buff its stats to 450 bst so it can be useful in low tiers.
Nope, they're giving it an evolution with a game-specific method, you're asking way too much if you think they'll buff a Johtomon directly outside of getting to use Eviolite by nature of that evolution.
I could even see it being decent if it merely got switched to a bug type move, especially with twineedle gone.
Removing that immunity would at least make it more interesting than electroweb
Imagine if this was a combination of Toxic Spikes + Sticky Web. Ariados would still be mostly useless, but it least might have a bit more of a niche in lower tiers.
This is only shit in a meta with tera
In SV it was fine because hat can shit on the mon with shadow ball or dark pulse on the next turn
*in SwSh
not SV
Hatterene absolutely can't afford to run this shitty meme move in doubles, it has a very specific and important job to do and needs all of its usual tools.
In singles it's better off setting up with calm mind.
Or you can just use Psyshock/Psychic/Dazzling Gleam twice and deal more damage than one super effective Shadow Ball.
Hatterene isn’t fast enough to use this. If magic powder made the opponent dark type however.
There's no reason to use it when Draco Meteor or even Dragon Pulse exists. At least it's animation in gen 4 was kino.
At least it's overpowered in Mystery Dungeon and Rumble.
It should have clean the target from any changes.
>or even Dragon Pulse exists.
Roar could hit OHKO ranges that Pulse can't.
No reason to use of Draco though. It's definitely not good though.
There should be an ability that negates the recharge turn for moves like this. Or at least, takes some hp to use consecutively. There are a lot of recharge moves that are good but worthless in actually gameplay. Or make an ability like Gen 1 hyperbeam.
It's completely different from draco meteor though. It has a higher bp and the downside is arguably worse.
>There's no reason to use it when Draco Meteor or even Dragon Pulse exists.
The reason is it's fricking COOL
Just make it like Bloodmoon and Gigaton Hammer where you cant use it twice in a row
They should honestly buff every hyper beam clone like this
the starter moves would get much more use
>magic power is psychic
>not fairy
Why tho??
Because it's not supposed to make opponent stronger
You could use it on a partner in doubles.
Or you could use good moves.
Because fairy is a top tier defensive type.
Magic has been associated with Psychic.
>Abra line being stage magicians
>Hoopa being a wish granger
>Will and Avery
>Magic Room and Magic Coat
>Magic Guard and Magician being almost exclusive to Psychic Pokémon or Pokémon that can evolve into Psychic types
>Prior to Gen 6, Magic Bounce was exclusive to Psychic Pokémon and after Megas left they are now exclusive
>Trick (stage tricks) - also why Meowscarada the stage magician without psychic powers can learn it via level up
>Hatterene being based on a forest witch and having this move as her signature
>Eerie Spell
>Tulip comparing cosmetics to magic
The only 2 Magic moves related with Fairy are Dazzling Gleam (Magical Shine) and Magical Torque.
Almost everything else points to magic being strongly associated with Psychic.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Shelter_(move)
This is the worst one imo, it increases defense by two stages and has only 10 pp. Acid armor does the exact same thing and it has 20pp. Hisuian Goodra learns acid armor. Idk what gamefreak was smoking
It's a shame because it was really good in Legends Arceus.
Both Witdraw and Shelter should add evasion rise.
Thats selling it short, it was straight up broken
What if Lunge was 10BP weaker and Grass type
this isn't all that bad, grass isn't exactly a good type or anything but lowering attack is fairly useful
This one's good because I get a stiffy whenever my tsareena uses it.
That's my signature move tho
I guess you could try using it on something with Defiant to get +4 attack.
it would make a killer doubles sun team, but I don't think defiant activates if an ally lowers a stat anymore
it would be the dream
>(lead) chloro Scov
>(lead) sun setter
>defiant 'mon
>costar flamigo
>Lets give a frail guy a support move
It should have got Grass move that deals extra move if used on grass or ice.
I don’t think this one is on the same level as everything else here. I’m sure there’s niches for it out there
I've seen a few Spicy Extract meme teams in VGC, you use on a partner with Clear Amulet and if anything tries to use Follow Me it still get fricked from the defense drop.
Singles: Mirror Herb plus Chlorophyll in the sun on a predicted switch in?
Doubles: Same but with follow me support and costar flamigo?
I’ve seen Clear Body Dragapult paired with it, which can be pretty nasty if it gets going
meme move for meme strat with foul play murkrow
>Signature move
>effect : makes the user die faster
for what purpose
You're supposed to use it on your other Pokemon, like coaching.
Technically not a bad Ground-type move. A great one, maybe. 90 BP, hits all opponents but not your side in Doubles, doesn't get lowered by Grassy Terrain. A very good Earthquake replacement except.... Zygarde has two other signature moves that do the exact same thing but with trapping or the ability to hit flying types added. A good move outclassed by god-tier moves.
What could they do to fix Land’s Wrath?
Give it to a non-uber 'mon.
>boost power slightly to 100
>give to other ground types
>give it a good secondary effect like Arrows or Waves has, maybe a 100% speed drop?
100% speed drop combined with the power increase seems OP, especially if it’s on mons besides Zygarde who’s meant to be OP
>>give to other ground types
I'm glad that you guys don't work for GameFreak. You frickers would break the game with some of this shit.
>Let's give every flying type Aeroblast
>Let's give every normal type Judgement
>Let's give every fire type Blue Flare
>Let's give every dark type Dark Void
>Let's give every steel type Doom Desire
Yeah man, what kind of idiot would pass put legendary exclusive moves to a few new mons, that would break everything!
>gamefreak gave sacred sword to pokemon where it makes actual sense
>therefore everyone single normal type pokemon in existence should get judgment!!11!11!!!
unironically what would be wrong with normal types having judgement
it would still be a normal type move and we had return for seven whole gens and that was actually STRONGER
Point me to who in the thread made this suggestion besides yourself
The discussion was about Land's Wrath you fricking moron.
>Comes in to the thread
>makes an intentionally bad faith reading of a post
>expands that bad faith reading well beyond reason and spergs out
>"Im not moronic you are!!!"
Go take a nap
Most intelligent Unovafan
most sane Discord raider
least insane schizo poster
And I find that moronic, why give away a legendary pokemon move that make sense for them? It make no sense.
The game is already broken due Game Freak prioritizing CHARIZARD shilling over everything else
I am so surprised nobody has mentioned Twineedle yet which is probably only beaten in shittyness by moves that are bugged (Focus Energy) and moves that are intentionally shit (Splash)
It was the only way steel types could be poisoned once upon a time.
why do they keep making incredibly niche status moves that either use or counter the most niche and inefficient strategies possible
do the gamefreak move designers actually know how their game is played or do they just live in a bubble
honestly i'd rather have shitmons have some competitive niche than be post-split stat stick abomination kanto mon #24
no there is a difference between a move being niche and having a niche
things like magic powder have a use that is useful in about 2% of situations, where the buffs to toxic thread that anons proposed would *give* ariados a niche because no one else could do it
because they're running out of moves to make
>do the gamefreak move designers actually know how their game is played
lol, lmao
Not everything has to be hyper optimized, sometimes you need some fluff and niche stuff.
Octazooka. Unusable garbage even in the generation it was introduced in.
Bad bp, bad accuracy, bad secondary effect, not even guaranteed to proc when it hits.
Snap trap and it should be Carnivine's she deserved it
I hope GF buffs some old signatrue moves one day
What if Pokemon had a 5th moveslot dedicated to only shitty gimmick moves?
Why is this so bad. Even if it crits it's barely stronger than Sludge Bomb (in gen 3 mechanics, in modern gens even with a crit it's weaker than Slduge Bomb) and it doesn't even badly poison. This could be 80 BP with a 100% chance to Toxic and it still wouldn't have made Seviper broken.
70 BP 100% acc High Crit Chance and 50% chance to poison would be ok for single player
>Why is this so bad
Because this was when Pokemon was still designed with conventional RPG mechanics in mind.
Not every move should or needs to be some super competitive PvP move. Some moves simply exist to give a Pokemon a solid early-to-mid game option.
Yeah, these days many moves need buffs since Pokemon isn't designed with the philosophy of an RPG in mind any more.
>Because this was when Pokemon was still designed with conventional RPG mechanics in mind.
No, not really. It could've just learned Sludge instead if that was the only reason, it's effectively the same move. Besides, Seviper only appears in 1 small route and is rare, so it's not like it'll leave a big impression on you the way something like a Weedle's Poison Sting will.
Redundancy is also a part of RPGs. Leagaye, Branch Poke, and Vine Whip are all effectively the same move (Vine Whip having 5 more base power as of Gen 6. There isn't a reason to have three variants of an early game move when all of these Pokemon can feasibly learn Vine Whip without presenting too many issues, but that's also boring. And creating moves, especially early game ones, don't take up to much development time and effort.
Yeah, Seviper could learn Sludge like you said, but Poison Tail lets it stick out to a player just a teensy bit more in a series where you can choose hundreds of Pokemon and all of them have to stick out in some way or another. One of Pokemon's biggest appeals is its sense of immersion after all.
this is objectively a good move
it's just bad for zygarde
>this is objectively a good move
>effect only activates if Zygarde moves last
>even though it's thematically meant to shut down auras, it can't hit Xerneas because it's Dragon
No, it's shit.
>100bp 100acc move with no downsides
>it's le bad because... because it just is, okay?
/vp/ in a nutshell.
explain why you would use a special move with Zygarde
A move is only as good as the Pokemon using it.
Core Enforcer should be physical and have an additional effect that lets it hit Fairy types. If Sacred Fire can be physical then Core Enforcer can too. Also, Zygarde’s Complete forme should be its own permanent forme and only have Aura Break as its ability
>Zygarde’s Complete forme should be its own permanent forme and only have Aura Break as its ability
Or alternatively have Power Construct become Aura Break when it switches forms.
No. Only Aura Break.
I am still mad poor Darkrai had his Dark Void accuracy nerfed from 80% to 50% because of Smeargle's VGC shinanigans.
And at the same time they coded Dark Void to fail if used by anyone other than Darkrai, and Darkrai has never been legal in any official competition, so what was the fricking point!? It's now a crappier Hypnosis.
God i fricking hate smeargle and the gays that used it also frick rizzo for making that bulky thundurus set that led to other nerfs
I saw this being used in sword and shield VGC once, it wasnt too bad
Zygarde ran this in gen 7 to get STAB extremespeed on coil sets
Maybe it would be good if the game had double battles STUPID
NTA but you should clarify the difference between a move being shitty and a move being shitty in singleplayer. Most moves are shitty in singleplayer where you can usually get away with just spamming attacks and status effects for your entire playthrough. That doesn't make moves or abilities designed for doubles or other competitive formats shitty, just redundant in the context of the average playthrough.
Spotlight I’m pretty sure wasn’t a signature move and is actually useful in doubles to counter follow me and rage powder.
Sparkling Aria, Snipe Shot and Spiky Shield are quite garbage by signature move standards.
Spiky Shield is pretty good in doubles, where most things tend to carry Protect anyway.
>Spiky Shield
the frick? It's a superior Protect. The reason it isn't completely broken is they weren't moronic with the distribution which is pretty funny considering Ferrothorn has an excuse
Gear Up is just barely not a signature move (Klinklang and Magearna are its only users, and it's gone in SV anyway), but also... why on earth would you EVER use it.
It's probably why it got the boot so early, there were zero use cases because Plus/Minus are garbage abilities even in a story mode sense due to how single battle focused the entire series is
what's with gf designing so many things around doubles and then never ever ever actually putting doubles in mainline?
Because TPC is forcing them to do so in a belief that it'll make VGC more interesting and/or go faster by having more dedicated moves.
But most of those moves and abilities suck in VGC too
They require high investment for little payoff, meanwhile your opponent can just set up and sweep
They're just pure noob bait
Take Alolan Muk for example, why would you run Power of Alchemy over Poison Touch?
Or Receiver over Defiant, in a metagame full of Intimidate spam.
>Take Alolan Muk for example, why would you run Power of Alchemy over Poison Touch?
>he doesn't know
To inherit Moody after spamming Minimize. Power of Alchemy is the main reason to use Alolan Muk in VGC.
This is a better example, mainly because Passimian sucks in general, but also because Defiant is too good to pass up.
It's kind of like how Opportunist is a decent ability in theory, but there's no reason to bother with it when Espathra can run Speed Boost instead.
TPC isn't forcing Game Freak to do anything as Game Freak OWNS 1/3rd of TPC in the first place.
Anything that Game Freak decides to do isall on Game Freak.They don't make the main portion of the game Doubles because people will buy it anyway, Remember, they effectively got rid of dungeons/labrynths because kids kept getting confused by Mt. Coronet's design and moms complained, so they started making them much simpler starting with the next generation until they were entirely gone by Gen 8.
Yet they kept Magnetic Flux.
probably because toxtricity can take advantage of it, while magearna can't get benefits from gear up at all
They have added so many things that try to make a plus/minus gimmick build worth trying and yet all of them are shit
It never occurs to them to just make the plus/minus boost stronger.
>make a move that's weaker or on par with already existing, usually more consistent coverage moves and TM's
Now it won't ever see use.
>make a move that's stronger than already existing, usually more consistent coverage moves and TM's
Now you can't make stronger coverage moves to not step on the move's toes. A la volt tackle.
>A la volt tackle
Physical electric moves are almost entirely signature moves. its a shitshow
>Zing Zap, Zippy Zap, Bolt Beak, Fusion Bolt, Plasma Fists, Aura Wheel, Double Shock, Volt Tackle, Bolt Strike
>the most usable electric move has the same bp as thunderbolt but with recoil and no paralysis chance
Gentlemen, Behold!
>My favourite legendary, the only signature move he has outside of fusion, has a sick ass jp name that got me hyped when it was found during the early leak days
>Its just powder snow with 10 more bp and hits all 3 in tripple battles, a format they instantly dropped
>Introduce the fusion mechanic in bw2, it mandatory replaces glaciate so you cant even use it with Kyurem-W's increased spatk
What the frick is their problem
>Powder snow
Frick icy wind, my bad
That's an excellent move.
Upgraded version of a great move for a terrible Pokemon. If it was widely distributed it would be used all the time.
Fillet Away is weirdly undertuned for a new gen signature move, especially considering Veluza's bad stats
>Shell Smash, except you take 50% HP instead of -1 in defenses
Only thing I can think of is that they were worried it would be too strong with Stored Power if it was too spammable or +3 instead of +2.
It's comparable to Belly Drum. Seems fair to me.
Not at all, since you don't want to run mixed it's basically only +4 in stats. Compared to Shell Smash, Clangerous Soul, No Retreat etc. taking half health just isn't worth.
>No Retreat
Hey, there's another one for the thread.
>+1 omniboost
>but can only be used once per battle (barring niche situations)
>Close Combat being Falinks's best STAB means the defense boosts are largely worthless
>as is the special attack boost obviously
>meaning all Falinks really gets out of it is +1 attack and speed
>so it's essentially Dragon Dance, but worse because you can only use it once
>on a Pokemon with no base stat above 100
i believe the idea is that you can use recover to get the move off multiple times, but in practice veluza is much too frail for this to ever work.
pretty standard gimmickmon shit.
would you ever rather lose half health than lower your defenses? it's a weird move
in made to master ball tier using it, and if i saw that it shoulnt work, u sed fricking final gambit instead just to kill something and open up my wincon, its not bad just hard to use, but most npcs gay meta prostitutes cant used because most of them are homosexuals with less braincells
What is the point of this move? Smelling salts signature move of the Hariyama line. Oddly made a normal type move so no stab. Had 60BP but doubles if the target is paralyzed but it cures the status. It is like GF couldn't decide to make this a beneficial move to help allies or punish the opponent. Anyway Hariyama can barely benefit off of this move due to only having access to body slam to potentially inflict paralysis. But if you are trying to combo to get the power boost your better off using mega kick since you get 120bp instantly at the cost of accuracy. The move is a mess, they should of made it a 10bp move to use in double battles so you can have a niche in curing paralysis since Hariyama is slow and probably be the last to act ensuring the cure.
>What is the point of this move?
See
Just a silly ass ingame move meant to punish the player for not healing off your paralysis
If they keep wanting to add super specific gimmick moves that only work on doubles, they really need to start adding actual double battles to the game at some point so people can actually use them.
Has anyone ever actually even used Volt Tackle? You have to go so far out of your way to get it in a playthrough and it's not like anyone's gonna use it in comp.
No, but I might use a Raichu when the next DLC comes out.
I used it from gen 3 all the way up until alola raichu came out, im a sucker for signature moves so if a mon i like has one i try really hard to incorporate it
>We need a new Apple move !!!
>weak 60 BP
>85% Acc
>Lower speed for ONLY 3turns
This is by far the worse signature move for a new pokemon. Even Dipplin is dogshit since it's ability work only one time
>it's ability work only one time
It's not like Intimidate?
No only one time like Intrepid Sword
Syrup bomb doesn't lower speed for only three turns, it lowers speed EVERY turn for 3 turns.
The ability only activating once per battle sucks, but it isn't that bad.
You switch in, throw out a syrup bomb with 100% effective accuracy, then you can use draco meteor or pollen puff your ally.
Also, Dipplin can use eviolite, so it's actually very bulky.
Not enough people talk about mid Skitter Smack is
>introduced in SWSH Isle of Armor DLC
>each of the 18 types got 1 new tutor move
>Bug type gets this
>70 power
>90 accuracy
>DLC exclusive move outclassed by Leech Life, Lunge, even X-Scissor
And the only Pokemon that get it in SV are the Spidops, Tinkaton, and Lokix families
common bug L