>Johto fans get the best remake in the series.
>They completely lucked out by getting their remake before pokemon remakes became subpar, casualized, rushed products that disregards their superior third versions.
>They're still begging for another remake, anyway.
Why aren't you guys grateful for what you have?
>NOOOO, NOT TEXT DIALOGUE!! AIIIIIIEEEEEEE!!!!
Cope
The teacher and Pokeathlon are optional dialogue, dishonest moron.
Some dialogue you can easily mash through is also a very pathetic argument against HGSS' improvements, I don't know why you keep posting this image with the same filename acting as if you're making some powerful statement every time.
>I don't know why you keep posting this image with the same filename acting as if you're making some powerful statement every time.
He know he's not doing that. All he wants is to make people seethe. And unfortunately judging by the replies, it's working.
>People defending the exact bullshit that led to Sun and Moon becoming a railroaded chore despite having great maps.
HGSS is awesome, but pretending that forced tutorials and superfluous scenes like this aren't a problem is dishonest. It isn't nearly as bad as Sinnoh was, but most of the interactions here should have been optional.
But that criticism is unfair, not only is that dialogue MUCH quicker to get trough than Alola shit, but it's spread out all over the game
It also puts pics that have nothing to do with the wall of text (the two comparisons about with the old games)
The only 3 cutscenes that are absolutely unnecessary are
>the grandpa giving you the shoes one
>the guy at the pokeathlon showing you the place
>your friend showing you the daycare
That's it, everything else doesn't overstay its welcome and is relevant to the game.
The kimono girls appear like, 3 times, it's really not a big deal.
>Well, it doesn't overstay its welcome, so-!
Terrible excuse. If it's not necessary for the game or its story, the player should have a choice to engage or not. Bad design decisions "not being a big deal" doesn't change that they're annoyances, especially on replays.
It's *EASIER* to program most of these as player initiated or quick to opt out of. There's no fricking excuse for Lyra forcing you into a catching tutorial. There's no reason for the player to be roadblocked from facing Falkner when they want or from heading to Azelea without Flash. There's no reason to force the player to interact with Baoba before they head to the Safari Zone itself. There's no reason for the kimono girls to be anything but optional npcs for flavor text. These are all negatives for repeat players when there's no downside to making them optional.
Please, get the weird popularity contest out of your head. These were objectively bad decisions and criticizing them shouldn't lead to
>Uhhhh, can't read much??? 😉
from hyper defensive fans.
>There's no reason for the player to be roadblocked from facing Falkner when they want or from heading to Azelea without Flash. There's no reason to force the player to interact with Baoba before they head to the Safari Zone itself. There's no reason for the kimono girls to be anything but optional NPCs for flavor text.
these are elements they deemed necessary for the story
>Baoba was deemed necessary for the story.
Humor me.
>Never came up with anything.
gay.
>Uhhhh, can't read much??? 😉
That's unironically what it boils down to. You keep saying it's objectively bad but nothing in the game is really being harmed by some text. You just want to mash through the game faster. While there's nothing really wrong with that you're blowing a minor issue into something it really isn't. Why is it bad to go up the tower to get a little character moment with Silver? Why is it bad to help these kimino girls? These aren't even Starfield tier text dumps.
The fact of the matter is the best argument Genwargays have to present GSC as superior to HGSS is some text, and that's really not good. An HGSS fan could bring up battle facilities, minigames, rematches, etc and the GSC fan will respond saying he hates to read.
What do you think about BDSP?
Fine games. Better than DP. Plenty of good QoL for Sinnoh. Doesn't have Platinum's Frontier but it enhances DP's Tower to try and make up for it. $60 is too much for it but you can always pirate or get it on sale.
Do you not find them extremely ugly?
>Ummm acktchually you're illiterate if you point out design flaws.
>You must be saying you want to mash through and don't want the player to experience things!!
>Also, genwars!!!!!
Shut the frick up, you internet poisoned manchild. The entire argument, from the start, has been that these kinds of things actually do suck but morons who need to wage some imaginary popularity contest make up nonsense excuses to try and pretend it isn't a thing.
I think some of the examples in the image are good, even. Jasmine's gym is a change that wouldn't work if you have the player options. My point has, continuously, been that forcing the player to sit through this shit inconveniences some players at no benefit, and you dipshits STILL keep going
>Buh...it's not thhaaaaat baaad...
as if I ever said it's a big deal.
For frick's sake, get over your weird board culture shit. Small design mistakes are still design mistakes and there's nothing wrong with saying "Hey, that sucks, there's a better way to do that."
Not that anon but you can't blame them when people recently have been going super hard on Johto and making mountains out of mole hills like Houndooms availability etc...
Two different things
HGSS is fine, while SM is worse AND combines with the double black screens each time
SM being bad isn't HGSS' fault
>This bad thing is fine and it shouldn't be criticized because it's not as bad as it became later.
Absolute moron.
I don't see a tiny amount of added story as a bad thing, you do
>"This thing could easily be made optional or opt-out to not slow down the experience if the player doesn't want to do them."
>"Wow, you hate that they added things?!"
Please stop being dishonest just so you can deflect criticism. You may as well say it wouldn't be a problem if the game didn't let you opt to not explore the Ruins of Alph or skip participating in a Bug Catching contest. Most of the examples in that image are things that tutorialize or add extra context that isn't necessary to get the point. I'm glad they added it, but a lot of this shit would be just as effective if the player was given a choice.
you could get completely locked out of ho-oh in crystal if you didn't know what to do
There's no reason to make that optional if it's part of the story you want to tell
Tutorials are a different thing however
>There's no reason to make that optional if it's part of the story you want to tell
Damn, better redesign the Pokemon Mansion in Kanto, then.
You're responding to me telling you the additions are fine but the implementation is bad because it interrupts players with hints and extra details instead of making them a thing players can find easily. Why would you think this means I think people should get locked out of catching Ho-oh? Are you moronic?
>Pokemon Mansion in Kanto
the books are extra lore that isn't part of the main story which is why they're optional
while they wanted to add the above elements to the main story
So yeah, your argument hinges entirely on the whims of the devs, so it has nothing to do with design and everything to do with GF apologism. Whether it's good or bad to make context for and combat with the big region legendary mandatory is solely "what did they choose to do?"
You may as well just say GF can't make a poor design decision while you're at it. This is stupid.
I'd argue the sevii islands forced shit was worse than the HGSS changes
I'd agree with that. Probably the first game to go too far in handholding the player. DP went even further and HGSS toned it down but still kept Sinnoh-isms. Gen 5 is awful about this, and 6 and 7 are nearly unplayable it's so bad.
sevii is optional
Not entirely.
no its not, you're forced to do the first bit when you get to cinnabar island and then its doubly forced for you to complete it if you want to trade with the other gen 3 games that aren't remakes
>Open world LE GOOD
>Actually well balanced game with a coherent level curve LE BAD
>Collagegay once again trying to start genwars
Pathetic
Oh no, you actually have to read dialogue and go through an actually interesting and cultured story? What ever shall you do? Womp womp fricking womp. Also, remind me as of why people hate the kimono girls again?
The only real flaw they didn't really touch on was the level curve, and even then, that was forgivable since you could do gyms in a different order after the fourth gym.
The game play was fricking amazing, the legendary events were spot on, I loved the customizable safari zone and all the accessible areas once you beat the fourth gym, and the extra routes and legendary events were beautiful.
The kimono girls were fun to battle, and were wonderful representations of Johto's culture which was good for world building. Oh and are we seriously going to forget 2 new routes, a battle frontier, and a whole ass custom safari zone? And the fact that you don't do anything beyond speedreading through the game and the most barebones catching and battling is very obvious and telling considering how you shit on the minigames. Lest we forget minigames were one of the features that made Pokemon Stadium all the more enjoyable. The fact that you see Kanto is a big ass place with nothing to do just shows that you hardly played this game. Not to mention Johto has a lot of identity, and being next to Kanto was simply just good worldbuilding for a sequel.
Why are so many people needlessly shitting on Johto? I still don't fricking understand to this day. I feel like people are just mad that we're the only ones who didn't get a dogshit installment.
My absolute homie
>Why are so many people needlessly shitting on Johto? I still don't fricking understand to this day. I feel like people are just mad that we're the only ones who didn't get a dogshit installment.
Same reason people nitpick the other worthwhile gens, those games are good enough that people will bother to defend them. Some people just shit on whatever is popular and gen2 and hgss have consistently been rated some of the best games in the series since they came out, at least among people who bother to talk about the games at depth online.
People will blow minor shit way out of proportion while dismissing major things like having a fricking second region and a continuing story, battle facilities, the best safari zone in the series, the original games introducing two new types and the day/night system, etc.
But oh no you cant catch houndour til you’re in the second region, dismiss everything these games do well and call them shit
To be completely fair, I think houndour and murkrow should be available in Johto and you should be able to get to the league with Honchkrow and Weavile in the remakes.
It's a shame that part was overlooked, there is room for improvement there
Still my personal favorites of the series.
I made a hack that lets you get all the relevant evolution stones for the cross-gen evolutions between Pryce and the Pokémon League. It also adds the Linking Cord item from Legends: Arceus, available on certain days at the Pokéathlon.
Pure Heart and Pure Soul?
Pure Heart and True Soul.
now with parental rape and bad OCS
s
Cool! I've only just begun it, but been having a blast with it so far. You done good.
If you really wanna make the games as close to crystal as possible though, you could replace Lyra with Kris. If not, no biggie. I enjoy what you've done so far.
On another note: if you really want attention for your mod, try to get it onto a website dedicated to mods/pokemon mods. Maybe even get a poketuber to try it? Thats gotta be better marketing than shilling on Ganker.
I'm glad you're enjoying it. Let me know if the Kanto Gym Leaders are too overpowered. The overal increased levels in Johto and Kanto should help you reach their level easier, but I don't want them to be too overpowered. They each have 5 Pokémon, and are about 10 levels higher than their GSC versions. I also think I need to update the water encounters, so I will probably look into releasing a small patch soon. A decision I'm struggling with is whether the Ice Rock and Mossy Rock should be moved from Cerulean Islands and Viridian Forest respectively to Ice Path and Ilex Forest. The problems I have is that:
1. It would make Glaceon much later obtainable than Leafeon
2. I would need to also give Johto an electric field, which is difficult because there isn't really an appropriate location, Kanto's Power Plant fits perfectly
The solutions I have come up with are flawed. I'm not against adding a new hidden location in Ilex Forest that is unlocked by HMs, but the only HMs unlocked after Pryce are Whirlpool and Waterfall! The Rocket HQ could work as a magnetic field, but there are limited encounters there that are disabled after clearing it. The way I have the game balanced is that all the stones for the cross-gens originally locked away to Kanto are available between Pryce and the Pokémon League. I know there are the move evolutions like Yanmega and Tangrowth, but they are the exception and were available even in vanilla HGSS.
I'd be glad to tell you my experiences when we meet again.
I can't comment on either the kanto gym leaders nor the water encounters, but as for the ice and moss rocks, I think kanto is the better location. Keeps the mod focused on johto pre national dex, ya know? Plus I do feel that having one eeveelution available well before the other is kinda wrong, like a yin without a yang. Best to keep em available around the same time since they a pair.
If you want eevee cross gen evos available between pryce and the pkmn league WITHOUT relocating the rocks, you could introduce the ice stone from LA (and tweak the leaf stone to trigger leafeon too). Might make the rocks feel superfluous, so you could have the stones be pokeathalon and voltorb switch prizes, but expensive, so that way a player has to choose between grinding for stones, or being patient and waiting for the rocks to become available.
Will not skip suicune! You seem passionate about this mod, so I wanna see everything you put into it.
BTW, I know most people skip it, but I'd reccomend doing the Suicune encounter on Route 42 so you can get the most out of the extra Eusine battles I added to the story!
Oh sure, I can see why it bothers people. But it’s also just, like, THAT is what ruins the entire game for these people? The distribution of literally two pokemon? That makes the entire game bad? Really?
It just goes to show how good these games really are that minor problems like that get so blown out of proportion, because they don’t have anything more substantial to mock. In their attempts to tear down two of the most highly respected games, they can do nothing but magnify small problems.
I’ve seen it in a few other fanbases, ones where the series is really huge. I usually try to take people in good faith but a lot of online discussion is just trolls repeating whatever gets a response.
Not who you’ve been arguing with but I agree all of these are annoying and deserve to be criticized. At the same time
>Buh...it's not thhaaaaat baaad...
is true. Even with these issues they’re some of the best games in the series.
nta but you two just did the exact thing he was chiding you for
>they’re some of the best games in the series.
Then why are you running defense and trying to shut down people acknowledging one of its few flaws?
I swear, Pokemon fans are idiots.
Yeah it's weird. I honestly don't get why people shit on these games so hard when they bring a lot to the table. This is the only franchise I play where people behave like this
>people are just mad that we're the only ones who didn't get a dogshit installment
>story bad because I can't read for more than 2 seconds 🙁
>getting blue at the last gym leader, inadvertently mirroring giovanni in gen 1 is supposed to be a bad thing
>noooooo my hentai ojisans 🙁
>schools are having trouble with reading, writing, attention spans, and overall critical thinking skills due to this generation of kids growing up being terminally online
>see this
Is there something you'd like to tell the class?
You can just mod them out pretty easily with the DS Pokemon script editor.
wait, can you use this for gen 7? that game would be so much better without all of the cutscenes.
Yeah, all those DS Gen 7 games.
Read, dude.
shut your b***h mouth homosexual
Shit your pants, man baby.
Hello, galar lover.
Remove the Lance one, he also heals you in Crystal.
The old man stopping you in Cherrygrove is in every version and Suicune in Cianwood is also from Crystal.
the old man doesn’t stop you in GSC, talking to him is optional
He doesn't? Man, it's been too long.
This and bringing over rock climb from Sinnoh are the two things keeping these remakes from being great. It's such a pain when you just want to explore just to have some homosexual NPC ! happy music you.
yeah the original games are much better because they have less of this moronic gay shit. and the graphics are fricking gay and look like shit.
fans get the best remake in the series.
It didn't do anything about all the flaws though.
So? HGSS added so many features it doesn’t NEED to fix the previous’s flaws.
Modernizing QoL fluff don't count. They didn't do anything about the actual gameplay
I don't want another remake, I want a Legends Game or something new
It improved nearly everything people b***hed about in the Johto games
>No story, Team rocket has no identity
Kimono girls' and Team Rocket's roles in the plots are heavily expanded to the point where some people who liked the more layback feel of the original consider it a detriment
>Johto too small
Johto is much bigger, with many new areas, and more things to do like the Battle Tower expanded to a Frontier, and the Pokethalon
>Kanto is butchered
Kanto is restored, has actual story beats, and you can even hunt Legendaries there
>Where are all the Gen 2 Pokemon?
Safari Zone, Cliff Cave, Prismo Egg, and even the Pokewalker There are still a small handful of post game mons but every game except GENWUN has those.
>Kanto's Backyard
this one isn't even really a criticism so it cant really be "Fixed", its just something's people what the frick does this even mean?
the only thing it didn't "fix" was the level curve which is shit in al Pokemon and even shitter in new games, and the Gym Leaders teams, and even this was technically improved since you can rematch the gym leaders and they have much better teams. meanwhile half the remakes don't even let you rematch gym leaders
None of this is true you moron.
Not an argument
>Kimono girls' and Team Rocket's roles in the plots are heavily expanded to the point where some people who liked the more layback feel of the original consider it a detriment
Kimono Girls don't do shit outside of being shitty plot devices and Team Rocket is just as irrelevant but now with a shitty Giovanni fanfiction subplot that ruins his character.
>Johto is much bigger, with many new areas
It's not.
>the Battle Tower expanded to a Frontier
who cares. they just copied the sinnoh buttsex frontier
>pokethalon
wow shitty minigames
>Kanto is restored, has actual story beats, and you can even hunt Legendaries there
Kanto is just as empty with nothing to do besides fight super under leveled gym leaders
>this one isn't even really a criticism so it cant really be "Fixed", its just something's people what the frick does this even mean?
It means that Johto has 0 identity and needs to piggyback off of Kanto
>They're still begging for another remake, anyway.
I'm not, HGSS are all I could ever ask for.
>Flaws
So you're not a johto fan, OP isn't talking about you
>johto is supposed to be flawed and bad!!
>It didn't do anything about stuff poketubers and shills made up to justify the remakes that are about to get revealed
No shit
it did do stuff for some of the flaws though like fixing kanto maps and having a functioning safari zone which were missing in the original oh and giving the e4 higher levels/new teams for the rematch after kanto
it added flaws to a flawless game
>>They're still begging for another remake, anyway.
No one does this
Do not engange with the moron above
Tbh DP and Pl almost felt like they were just practicing before they made the actually good gen 4 games, what with the frick ton of johto references they crammed into those games.
Platinum shits on HGSS. There's a reason why it had to copy paste Plat's battle frontier.
>There's a reason why it had to copy paste Plat's battle frontier.
And that reason is?
True, HGSS shits on Platnium. They even put Plat's battle frontier in HGSS so that people could enjoy in in the true Gen 4 game.
Imagine seething so much you had to parrot
in a way to be clever.
You're delusional.
>Tbh DP and Pl almost felt like they were just pra- Too bad! The BAG is full!
>Johto fans get the best remake in the series.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
platinum is funner to and replay hgss is funner to 100%. i like both but they both run like shit and lock the new pokemon behind gimmicks so idk how you can shit on one without shitting on the other
>they both run like shit
They clearly don't
I want Let's Go 2 Johto specifically and nothing else. My reasons are:
1. I liked the Let's Go artstyle and want to see Johto come to life in it. plus there's a chance some characters will get new outfits like Lorelei and Lance did. I want to see Clair and Karen get new outfits and hopefully more fanart as a result
2. I liked the live orchestra score and want to hear them do gen 2's ost
3. I want to ride gen 2 pokemon like the legendaries, kingdra, tyranitar, maybe even typhlosion (Gold does it in the manga). a Legends game would limit you to a handful of mons and they would likely be all new pokemon like they were in Arceus
4. I want a following pokemon feature that actually works. for some reason LGPE is the only game able to do it right. feraligator and meganium are too slow to keep up, and the legendary beasts are too fast and keep stopping every few feet. it's terrible
>I liked the live orchestra score
Nothing in this entire world breaks my heart more than morons like you who think LGPE had real instruments and not the most transparently poorly mixed synthetic instruments known to man
Calling Johto Kanto's backyard is completely uncalled for
A backyard is somewhere you want to stay, whereas you want to get out of Johto ASAP
Even in the Pokemon world Johto gets shit on for being full of weak ass pokemon and weak ass trainers. It's like the equivalent of Kansas for the Pokemon world.
The only example of anyone saying anything negative about Johto is Blue, who shits on everybody. And the player (a Johto boy) proceeds to kick has ass and an he even congratulates you. So even in the rare instance of Johto getting shit those people are proven wrong
Also isn’t Wyoming the joke state?
they changed 'johto boy' to 'johto champ' in crystal, where you can play as the girl but there isn't gender-dependent dialogue. hgss keeps 'johto champ' even though npcs can now tell your gender though
It's easy to change in DSPRE.
Johto is more beautiful than Kanto
All these minor criticisms about HGSS and they’re still the best remakes. Fine if you dislike gen 2, but the remakes it got blow FRLG, ORAS and BDSP out of the water when it comes to improvements over the original.
FRLG adding the sevii islands is nice though.
Zoomers think ORAS was better.
zoomers grew up playing hgss
And yet they think ORAS was better.
literally nobody wants modern gamefreak to touch gen 2. gen 2 fans know it can only get worse and people who dislike gen 2 don't want more of it
I'm not begging for anything but this franchise to die out and get sold to people that are actually competent.
A Johto remake is what i am expecting not what i want
I'm fricking begging for gen 2 not to get remakes. Knowing them, they'd somehow do something shittier than BDSP and somehow make the games smaller than the original G/S.
Frick remakes at this point I'd rather have Legends games.
zoomers will eat shit and die
johtogays are mentally ill
OG GSC is hindered by terrible balance and a bunch of cut/underdeveloped content.
HGSS is still a bit too easy compared to G1, 3, 4 and even 5, it holds your hand a bit more than it should (also a problem with 4 and 5), but it's really good.
Fan mods make both the best games in the entire franchise. It's not even close. I wish 4 got an overhaul as good as 2 and its remake, but you'd need to seriously redesign Mt. Coronet and add a bunch of features back in.
HG/SS are great, but nothing will beat FR/LG remakes. They give you the Gen 1 experience, with the ability to get Gen 2/3 Pokemon on the Sevii Islands sode-quest that rewards you with trading with RSE.
You get to choose if you want the pure upgraded version of Gen 1 into Gen 3, or if you want it expanded into having Gen 2 and Gen 3 being added in.
>franchise is so dead and soulless fans argue about which fricking rehashed game is the better rehashed game
>meanwhile new games are garbage
woof.
I want a new game set in Johto, like GS2
new games would be really cool frick doing remakes lets just make new games in old regions kind of like legends arceus but it doesn't have to be set in the past
I geniunely believe that anyone rooting for Johto re-remakes is just a Unovagay using Johto as a hopium-fueled scapegoat to deflect from the idea that the eventual Unova remake will absolutely fricking suck just as hard as BDSP does.
Another thread where apparently no one likes Pokémon past gen 2.
And they are all lying, they all have 200 hours on them but they are too ashamed to admit that the games are better than ever and their childhoold games suck ass.
Nah, I like some of the more modern games. I just think GSC was the peak, and DPP was the beginning of the decline. Doesn’t mean that there isn’t fun to be had with some of the newer games, though.
>best remake in the series.
>censored slopium
LOL
HGSS and ORAS are masterpieces
BDSP is gutter trash
No more remakes please
>implying I’m asking for a remake
GSC is king, and HGSS is the best remake ever conceived by Game Freak. In general, I think remakes are a waste of time when we could be receiving new content featuring old regions. Old games should simply be made accessible on official platforms for people who want to pay.
Remakes are lazy at their core, and BDSP has shown us just how low they’re willing to go. Why would anyone want a remake? If I was a big BW/B2W2 fan, I’d be rooting for B3W3 or a legends game at this point.