Just finished my first Character Trial and man...I think the tutorials in this game are actually REALLY fricking good.
My only problem is they still can't overcome the fact that the game is COMPLICATED. I'm convinced that the game is actually far more simple than I think it is based on watching other people play and the tournaments. There is just NO FRICKING WAY all these dudes are able to do the stuff they do, if there isn't some way their brain has simplified it for them.
There were a couple of moves I just got STUCK on, and I was thinking "what am I gunna do in a match if this happens" I almost want to say it reminds me of when I was younger and id grind out keep ups in my basement with my soccer ball, that's what it feels like, but I don't want to give THAT much credit to a videogame lmao.
I know nobody's gunna care about this, because bait about the number of players still playing the game is a lot more enticing, but I gotta ask. How do I play? I'm thinking of dropping Jamie because he just has SO much fricking stuff to keep track of: his drinks, the moves he gets from his drinks, how his combos change, what combo chains he can now do, the fact that it can refill his drive gauge at max etc. So I'm thinking of playing Cammy instead because I asked around and she's apparently good for beginners, as well as the fact that seeing the unique way punk played Cammy at gamers 8 has inspired me (lil bro coulda beat kakeru 100% if mental wasn't destroyed)
TL;DR: Now that I've finished a Character Guide, how do I actually feel comfortable getting into a game and applying that stuff? There's GOTTA be a way to intuit this shit? And sear it, into my nerves.
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yo
>I know nobody's gunna care about this, because bait about the number of players still playing the game is a lot more enticing
It gets easier as you play.
how? do I just hop randomly into casual matches?
Yup.
Yeah. Ranked might be better since you would be facing others who are also trying to figure things out.
so casual matches aren't tuned for players of your skill level? like not even at all?
not in sf6
damn, so I'll have to dive straight into ranked, I was hoping I wouldn't have to, because I'm scared of getting dumpstered every match for placements like my first time playing league. That was NOT fun
there is also the battle hub. it has beginner only lobbies
isn't that for player created characters and none of the actual fighters tho?
It's like 6 matches, just get it out of the way. You will get dumpstered more in casual than ranked, worst case you lose all your placement matches then wreck people till you rank up to your appropriate rank.
Yeah, just play the game instead of labbing all the time. There's a mental stack of all the shit you can do and playing will ease that- you won't be worrying as much about all the steps to even be able to confirm into that combo and can instead focus on it. Besides, trials aren't the optimal way to play, just a way to play. It's better to be able to do bread 'n butter easy combos consistently than master an optimal combo that you can't even get out.
>how do I actually feel comfortable getting into a game and applying that stuff?
test stuff in the training mode and then try to do it in online matches
Practice until it becomes muscle memory. Start with training mode, then practice against moving targets on normal mode arcade run until you feel comfortable getting what you practiced down consistently and then play against real players in battle hub or ranked. Battle hub is preferred because you can ask for advice from better players. Repeat these steps as you continue to add to your repertoire.
>normal mode arcade run
where's this? is it in world tour? because I explicitly DIDNT download world tour cuz I thought it was unnecessary lmao
fighting ground
It's called practice zoomie. Thousands of hours of practice
that's vague bro, soccer is a more taxing and complicated endeavor, and I didn't need to practice for thousands of hours like this. There's gotta be a better way to make it come natural, this is the case for all skilled competitive sports to varying degrees
what do you struggle with?
mental stack, when I finished Jamie's character guide and realized how much shit he has and how much I would have to keep in mind during matches, as well as the fact that there were 1 or 2 moves that I was struggling to be consistent with, my mind broke and I was overwhelmed and paralyzed at the idea of fricking up like an idiot in a match.
It's just the idea that I don't know what my gameplan will be, and my execution will be weak because I'll have mental block and won't smoothly flow into combos or take advantage of punishes properly
find your anti-air move
find your long-range poke
find your hard knockdown combo
that's the only thing you need to learn at this level
no but you can do avatar battles in it if you want
>find your anti-air move
>find your long-range poke
>find your hard knockdown combo
>that's the only thing you need to learn at this level
yeah I see, the character guide already teaches most of this, so I guess just stick to this and play reactively? reactive playstyle sounds like a great way to relieve mental burden I guess. Thanks for the heads up
don't play too reactionary though. You need to hold your ground and not get cornered
is there anything simple to keep in mind and focus on regarding that for now?
when moving back, don't go back all the way. doing crouch block is also strong because it makes play defensively while also holding your ground
It's more of experience thing, but in general - find your best buttons and move around with their effective ranges in mind. Next step is to notice and remember other characters tools and how they interact with your tools. For example if you get outgunned in midrange, maybe it's better to stick closer to pressure with your faster buttons or put some distance and fish for counterhits. Everything is about spacing and timing, once those are in place rest follows.
I see. this gives me a lot more direction, the only thing left is knowing stuff like "you can keep attacking even after this move is blocked" the tutorial said this for Jamie's medium punch
the tutorial is right. standing medium punch is one of the few attacks jamie has that is plus on block
OKAY good. We're finally getting to the entire reason I made this thread...how do I NATURALLY figure out stuff like that without going into frame data and stuff? This is why I didn't want to compare it to sports, because stuff like that seems so arbitrary like "this one move is advantageous on block and its just because, and you have to find that out by playing a hundreds of matches and SPECIFICALLY paying attention to each time you get punished out of dozens of times in a single match...or you just study and memorize all frame data" I'm sure people have and find a way to get used to this. Punk's punishes and reactions are so insane that there HAS to be a way. And that's what I want to know, is it actually arbitrary like it seems and I just have to memorize ever move's frame data...or is their a natural way to notice stuff like that?
look at the frame meter
nearly every move in SF6 is unsafe on block. You only need to remember plus on block moves and -3 moves because you can use drive rush to make them plus on block
*sigh* so it's still arbitrary memorization.
atleast it's not a lot that needs to be memorized...
I think I'll just skip this and see how it goes for now
>arbitrary memorization
not really. most attacks that have long startup also are plus on block. the more you play fighting games the more you will know about any other fighting game
Think about it this way: a light attack will always be a fast movement and ergo generally unpunishable on block (though if you whiff the opponent can still take advantage of this to start their offense). A medium attack tends to be a poking tool with alittle more recovery frames on block but usually at least 1 of these is pretty safe to throw out in neutral. A heavy attack is usually a high risk move with lots of recovery frames on block but tends to net the most advantageous situations when it lands (for example a sweep provides knockdown and usually in fighting games a crouching heavy tends to be a good anti-air button if your character doesn't have a reversal move like dragon punch to anti-air with).
Once you develop these fundamentals your experience will drastically improve to at least intermediate level.
There are multiple ways to go around it. General rule of thumb - BIG AND FAST moves like sweeps or dragon punches are unsafe, BIG AND SLOW moves are safe. Small and fast moves are in the weird limbo where they all basically safe but can be positive and negative.
Fastest way to go around it is to pull up framedata from wiki. Just look for things that are positive on block, those are your pressure/checking tools for a start. Everything that massively negative is a punishable move, everything just a bit negative is a turn stealing opportunity. Not necessary to remember everything, just take a mental note and review replays once in a while if you feel like you've lost close match on a knowledge check.
Second way is to use training mode there are guides on youtube how to set up a dummy that will help you to play out interactions and look for answers. Once you've done it couple times it becomes much easier.
>or is their a natural way to notice stuff like that
>"Damn, this move is kinda bullshit."
>*Press jab or whatever your fastest move that'd reach is*
>*Hit them and see punish counter in the corner of the screen*
>"Oh, it's unsafe."
Some characters are more complicated to deal with like Honda whose a notorious scrub stomper and honestly just a pretty shit design but you don't need to memorize every move's frame data and certainly not as a new player. I'd even say fixating too much on frame data is a common mistake for newer players. Just play, be willing to try shit out to find an answer, and if something's really bothering you and you can't find one then go check it out in training mode for ten minutes and see what you can do.
thanks guys, imma go finish the cammy guide then get right into ranked
OP: the issue is you started too late with too new a character. go back and learn fundementals with Ryu or Guile. when you can win a match with light attacks only, you're getting somewhere.
> t. oldgay OG arcade SF2 pre-championship edition
is Cammy a fundamentals character? the character guide said she's based around normals so that made me think she's a fundamentals character too and guile and Ryu look boring and I heard guile is hard apparently anyway
she is a rushdown character with a lot of mixups
what are mixups? I've heard this alot when people talk about that new character rashid
Being able to force situations where you have to guess what the attacker is doing, like an equal chance to do a high attack or low attack, or even a throw
>> t. oldgay OG arcade SF2 pre-championship edition
What rank are you.
> My only problem is they still can't overcome the fact that the game is COMPLICATED
Its not that complicated man. What you really need is a friend to enjoy the game with outside of ranked. Thats where the fun happens.
Aside from that you just have memorize some special moves. They’re all very similar between characters.
OP knows. Read the next sentence:
I'm convinced that the game is actually far more simple than I think it is based on watching other people play and the tournaments. There is just NO FRICKING WAY all these dudes are able to do the stuff they do, if there isn't some way their brain has simplified it for them.
I think he just doesn't get how to play intuitively because he's taking the Character Guides to mean: "You have to do everything learned here perfectly to win!" You're probably right that a friend would help, but this is Ganker, we're all losers. Do you really think he has a friend and would come here to ask for help instead of just playing?
I noticed in EVO that the pros like to drive rush to a throw a lot
you see your opponent/other players do stuff and then you copy them
you get used to it
just play modern controls. idgaf about learning another fighter, if i want a classic experience ill hust play the games im already comfortable with. learn the drive shit and use modern controls- the game becomes 100x more fun and 50x less frustrating. and it enrages the purists, which is icing on the cake.
You might think it's dumb but it's exactly like your soccer example. You just keep at it until it becomes second nature. What happens is that a lot of us have played fighting games for decades and already built up a lot of muscle memory, sometimes to our detriment. DPing in games where DPing isn't the best anti air option for example We're not just taking what we've learned into the latest entry, we're adapting what we've learned in past games into the latest one. Then it just becomes a matter of specific execution and little quirks of the game you're playing.