>Known to be the best character in the game for 20+ years
>People still enjoy Melee, fighting Fox, and seeing him played at a high level
>Meanwhile Ultimate is literally dying because Steve has been a top tier for not even two years
Why can't Sakurai make sovlful top tiers anymore? What went so wrong?
>What went so wrong?
Brawl removing momentum, and Smash 4 introducing pay2win tier DLC fighters.
Anyone with so much as a passing interest in the competitive state of nintendo games is mentally ill
This. These are games made for children to enjoy first and foremost
sakurai never INTENTIONALLY made any soulful top tiers. he got luckly once. no one knows why melee is such a success, no one can tell you why. it just happened. for this reason it will never happen again.
>sakurai never INTENTIONALLY made any soulful top tiers.
Yeah he did. His design philosophy was much different in 64 and Melee. Iwata told him he had to make games for moronic children and women waggling a wii remote around during the wii days and he doesn't want to disrespect his legacy
Both of you are wrong. SOVL is not created intentionally. It comes from the heart. Brawl was when smash games stopped having SOVL and became products to be mass consoomed and for cross-brand advertising. You can take note of a lot of soulless traits the new smash games all share. They lack identity for example.
soul is not real moron. You've taken a forced Ganker meme too far. Sakurai clearly put way more effort into ultimate than any other smash game.
I miss when my crossover fighter of million dollar ips wasn't about consumerism
there was once upon a time in vidya, where studios were allowed to create products they wanted to create. that weren't just about making the most money possible. when anything more esoteric than, say, metroid was allowed to exist. those days are gone. smash is not about gameplay. it's about getting e-celeb to fake react to characters from games they've never played and boosting youtube engagement so zoomers buy this shitty game. it's not about soul.
Nintendo was in the business of maximizing profits before they started making video games
The fact that Smash Bros. Ultimate of all games is called soulless proves that soul = nostalgia most of the time.
>The fact that Smash Bros. Ultimate of all games is called soulless
It's just an enhanced port of the previous game. What's soulful about it?
It's literally just a high technical skill ceiling with fun movement and physics, it's not that complicated. Every game that tries to cash in on its success fricks up one of those two things.
wrong
Sakurai explained why he's not making sovlful mains anymore in his recent videos on game design. TLDR
>He feels a personal feeling of guilt that his hyper-intense hyper-fast mechanics in melee have caused permanent physical injuries (arthritis, carpal tunnel, etc.) to basically everyone in the melee pro scene
>He doesn't like the feeling that if the game is too competitive, newer and younger players are excluded from being able to enjoy themselves against better opponents
>He feels that for people that want a HIGHLY competitive 1v1 fighter, they're just gonna play street fighter or guilty gear or the dozens of other fighting games that already cater to that need, so Nintendo should cater to its strength of making something charming and fun rather than something competitive and optimizing the games for the competitive scene is a waste of time, so long as the game is fun for average or mediocre players
It's not that he can't make sovlful top tiers, he just after Melee very intentionally chooses not to.
>sakurai could make the best fighting game of all time but chooses not to
is much sadder than
>sakurai is a malignant moron who hates competitive games and accidentally made a masterpiece because of the short development time
>ironically, more and more "real" fighters are dumbing themselves down, especially after SSBU amusingly
This makes it sting even more. Christ, I don't even need Smash to have Melee's depth. Just give us momentum again and cut back the amount of input buffer and artifical input lag. That alone would go a long way to producing satisfying core gameplay, that wouldn't alienate le heckin poor kiddos.
>be me a couple years ago
>Christmas
>My Sister bought a switch a couple months prior
>Decide to buy her SSBU, safe enough bet
>She hates it because it's not like 64/melee/brawl
>brawl lmao
>gives it to one of our mutual friends instead
> he hates it because it's not like 64/melee
Both said it was too floaty and controlled weird. I think Sakurai doesn't get you can make both crowds happy by just making a more responsive game, that responsiveness = competitive is just silly.
Brawl is actually fairly responsive if you are not playing with a Wiimote.
You get about 2-8 frames of lag from input delay with the Wiimote, and then a 20 frame input buffer.
Even then the 20 frame input buffer in some cases makes it easier to put in your next move and do combos without needing lightning fast reflexes enhanced by Adderall.
Neither your sister or friend knows shit
I know that, but they're kind of a casual consumer of things and not really into depth of competitive play. I thought it was interesting because they both came to the same conclusion and I figured they'd like it since it was made more casual.
It's the lack of momentum in the movement and knockback. It makes everything feel weird.
>He feels a personal feeling of guilt that his hyper-intense hyper-fast mechanics in melee have caused permanent physical injuries (arthritis, carpal tunnel, etc.) to basically everyone in the melee pro scene
1. Which video did he express this
2. If true, that hits me in my heart. Melee ruining people's hands felt like a light hearted joke and generally was, but I can imagine being the guy who made the game that ruins people's hands must sting, even if the playerbase doesn't seem to mind.
I don't see the point in worrying about it when a new or bad player in Ultimate has the same shot against a sweatcore player as their Melee equivalent. It's making the game handle noticeably worse for all players for no real benefit.
The logic is dumb because a better person is always gonna be better than someone who is worse.
Meleegays and competitivegays should dissapear from this world
I went to a smash tournament and those homosexuals raged when I tried to turn items on. They're probably just afraid to lose since "top" players don't know how to use items at all compared to players like me. Casuals are better at the game overall, too bad they have their stupid ruleset because they're so scared.
troony game
Is Ultimate really dying?
Melee isn't doing too hot.
Genesis (the largest Smash event of the year by far) had more Melee entrants than Ultimate.
Just checked. That is true, 1544 for Melee vs 1506 for Ultimate. Same for doubles, 3 teams more for Melee.
That could spell trouble for Ultimate if it isn't doing worse than current Melee.
smash players effectively banned icies by removing wobbling because they were tired of seeing it and there was a several years of whaling and gnashing of teeth over hbox jigglypuff camping for 5+ minutes every single game
ICs were held back by wobbling. Nobody bothered to.actually learn how to play them or use any of their handoff options.
>just do a bunch of 1-2 frame perfect tricks bro icies are still playable
fox gays cried they got grabbed once and lost despite all of their obvious advantages and because the "smash community" is a bunch of stream watchers/pools drowners worshiping at the feet of a few top players everyone goes along with whatever they want
Correct ICs are still playable. Didn't read the rest of your post because you said the fact in the first part.
Fox would still be playable without shine, so let's just ban that too.
I'm not seeing the issue here.
They weren't "held back" by wobbling. Sure, the handoff combos look cool but they're not as easy or lethal as wobbling.
The main thing is Melee is a game with a ton more fun and interesting characters and only absolute giga homosexuals like Hungrybox play shit like Puff. They're a rare breed. Melee would be a dead game if everyone mained puff or Icies and just went for cheese wins but who would actually want to do that over playing someone like Fox or Captain Falcon?
Ultimate's a different situation. The game sucks ass so you may as well just pick the lamest, easiest character you possibly can because it's not like you can do any sick shit with anyone else.
>it's good if you don't try to win
nice "competitive" game smashchodes
Melee's always been about fun. It's a grassroots scene with a nonexistent prize pool and you literally have to be the top 0.001% of players to gain any real money or notoriety off of it; it's just about having fun. People who want to have fun tend to not pick characters which are boring and lame as frick like Icies.
>look guys smash is a real fighting game just like street fighter
>AIEE IS THAT A PLAYSTYLE THAT ISN'T RUSHDOWN BAN IT BAN IT ITS RUINING THE GAME IT WASN'T DESIGNED TO BE PLAYED THIS WAY
In the time you spent seething. You could've learned how to actually play ICs.
infinites are degenerate
especially when only one character in the game has one
gief grabs you in street fighter = you lose about 1/4th your life bar
icies grab you and then wobble = you lose 1/4 stocks only wobbling requires you to keep hitting them
its the same shit. melee fans are just all on the spectrum and get anxiety if they aren't zooming around the stage at all times.
meanwhile if street fighter had a frame 1 reversal that was a combo starter and safe like melee has shine, there would be riots because that's a truly degenerate tool, its just also the idol the melee community worships so to question it is heresy
The melee cult behavior is very real. All the TO's are some of the biggest homosexuals you could probably ever meet
Sm4sh's TOs were worse. They did absolutely NOTHING to even try curbing Bayonetta's degenerate antics, they only said "psssh... adapt, kiddo" with heckin sweet reddit smirks, and look what happened to that game's scene. Next to dead by the time SSBU was revealed. IIRC a lot of them were either Bayo mains themselves or friends with big Bayo mains (including that one gay reverse-pedo teenager who intentionally honeypotted tons of older players).
melee is the only fighting game that has ever banned a degenerate technique before?
fox is cool
icies hand off combos are cool
wobbling is not, and its low barrier of execution goes against the spirit of the competition we want to watch and play in
you might have a point if icies were a good character outside of their grab but they're slow and nana dying meaning the character is now the worst in the game so if you aren't a cultist you might be able to admit that you got outplayed by getting grabbed despite dashdashing around the stage at 100 L trigger clicks per minute
ICs are good. Their players are just whiny cucks who can't actually play.
t. sheikgay
melee statistically died the second wobbling was banned
See
wobbling is a good thing and has counter-play. the counter-play being: do not get grabbed.
if wobbling is so good why are there so many salty wobbling videos, but none of steve?
because the reactions from the people falling victim to wobbling was always funny, especially if it was mew2king. this was also good for views. many people watched melee tournaments just to watch top players get wobbled. without them the game died
Imagine watching the troonyfest that is competitive melee in the current year. Smash as a whole should be killed
You're trans.
>best character is so hard that even after decades of grinding people still choke constantly at the highest level of play
verus
>best character is so easy 12 year old boys overtake every single seasoned vet of the scene
Ohh so that smell comes from here, ewww. Like 2 year old sweat that never came in contact with something like a shower
Ultimate's meta really was fricked by Steve and Sonic. DLC ruined Ultimate.
>DLC ruined 4
>DLC ruined Ultimate
Poetic
>First fricked by Joker
>Then he got nerfed finally, then fricked by Steve.
even if it wasnt Steve, it'd be Sonic or GW because how little of a disadvantage they have, which is the main reason the 2 DLC's were above everyone else.
Ultimate would be better if every player didn't just play PS2 every game. Melee has more stage variety than Ultimate.
I hate melee. I don't know why. I've just been here for too long maybe. I hate it for trannies, if for no other reason.
Why does this subreddit spend all of its time thinking about trannies?
I'll never understand what people see in watching Fox or Falco go at it repeatedly in every bracket. I think spacies are the most boring shit to watch or play against in any Smash game.
>People still enjoy Melee, fighting Fox, and seeing him played at a high level
Well once you start living a lie it takes a lot to get out from it
>Meanwhile Ultimate is literally dying because Steve has been a top tier for not even two years
And Steve hasn't been in a top 8 for a while now
fox
>incredibly difficult and flashy
>actually has weaknesses such as sub-par range, being a fast-faller, and trash vertical recovery
>shine
steve
>is not a nintendo character
>doesn't even interact with the opponent
>literally stonewalls at least half the characters from being viable
>has a glitch that breaks out of hitstun (wtf)
>diamond sword allows you to simply mash A for big damage at low%
>main counter pick is sonic which is also a mega homosexual camping b***h character
>main counter pick is sonic which is also a mega homosexual camping b***h character
Along with Sepiroth, Bayonetta, Palutena, Cloud and I heard some people say Falco but I'm unsure about that one.
I really don't see the reason for crying.
Most Smash Ultimate tournaments outright ban Steve like how Meta knight was banned in Brawl.
Banning a character really isn't that different from banning a stage.
But Steve isn't even banned for most tournaments, Steve wasn't banned for Genesis or Big moves we had last month.
melee is an interesting game mechanically and competitively it sort of lucked into the top tiers also mostly being the most fun characters. Nu-smash (brawl and beyond) is intentionally gimped from the start and within those games lame bullshit usually thrives or a character is completely overtuned to the point where it's not fun. Fox can frick people up but also gets fricked up whereas somebody like MK or steve can't even be contested by most of the cast
IC are still gay
>child diddlers thread
So why did you post in it? Pedo.
to be the best character in the game for 20+ years
>only in the last couple years have two guys managed to solo main him and win tournaments, and one of them has now quit solo maining him
Really makes you thonk.
>But he's so complex that humans can't fully unlock him, his so fast that our bodies can't keep up. Players ruins his arms by playing him
Is the defence I expect
When does top 8 start?
I miss when melee didn't get the prime spot. Grand finals going past midnight is brutal if you aren't underageb&. If iBDW isn't knocked into losers by Leffen I'll probably just check out early and go to bed.
I never got why ultgays spent years crying about the earlier slot. It's way more convenient.
also 6 PM PST but probably later because Ultimate needs to finish.
i've been playing melee and watching mang0 for nearly 10 years...
I've been watching mango and hbox play this children's party game against eachother since Apex 2012.
Fightan games shouldn't have balanced rosters, they should have fair rosters. Low APM characters at the bottom of the roster, High APM characters at the top.
How does Smash Ultimate have less stage variety than Melee? What is wrong with Ultimate players?
is this the Genesis X thread or will someone make new bread for melee top 8?
If it's alive, might as well be.