dwarves as a race are incredibly boring on their own, what makes them work is having them cooperate with humans and elves and thr banter that entails from it
they should have been part of the imperium as integrated abhumans the way ogryn are
right. Dwarves are defined by how hard they seethe at other, more developed factions. They have no identity of their own. Nusquat lore doesn't even have any major eldar-votann squabbling but dorfgays still default to that because it's all they know.
Perhaps not in 40k, but in Epic they had trains and zeppelins, all with gigantic faces slapped on them. KO are a good, albeit fantasy, update to the old idea.
This is the ultimate truth, we went from biker space dwarfs with giant trains, drill vehicles, and forts on tank treads, to generic space miners. The new lore is good, but holy shit do look so boring.
Nobody wanted those gay space bikers back because they looked like fricking trash in epic as well.
If you ever liked the original squats you are a homosexual who probably takes it up the ass at the local biker club.
The OG squats were fricking moronic and only contrarian homosexuals pretend that there was anything good in the homosexual boomer bikers in space aesthetic the Squats had.
The current space race/nasapunk dwarves look is way better. The only aspect where they really suck thus far are the faces on the squats. The female faces are horrid, and even the male faces are rather shit imo.
Also the helmets having little eyes looks goofy, it would be better if they were just dome like things or some shit.
>The OG squats were fricking moronic and only contrarian homosexuals pretend that there was anything good in the homosexual boomer bikers in space aesthetic the Squats had.
This is the most correct thing ever posted in these threads.
If you like dwarves you're gay. You like thick hairy men who lives in close confines and don't bathe.
You're a homosexual.
And as shit and ugly as these new squats are, they're a million miles better than any other version of dwarves we were likely to get.
The only true thing you said is that squats weren't very well drawn and modelled due to limitations of the time. Otherwise they were pretty cool
Nu-dwarves are the opposite of cool, they're literally unmanly and maybe this is why you like them, hah.
People wanted squats back because they manly AND funny.
And you are the actual homosexual if you unironically see something gay with stubborn bearded men. It's a pure projection and self outing, you morons. When will you ever learn?
>The OG squats were fricking moronic and only contrarian homosexuals pretend that there was anything good in the homosexual boomer bikers in space aesthetic the Squats had.
This is the most correct thing ever posted in these threads.
If you like dwarves you're gay. You like thick hairy men who lives in close confines and don't bathe.
You're a homosexual.
And as shit and ugly as these new squats are, they're a million miles better than any other version of dwarves we were likely to get.
Another one outed himself. Come out of your closet and suck some dick.
I've been on /tg/ long enough to know that's not true. On older threads discussing Squats, we had tons of different ideas and even occasional arts. Deep Rock Galactic was not that aesthetic and people posted it. AoS has Kharadron Overlords. Picture of anniversary miniatures of Grombrindal in Space Marine power armor were posted. For many years, we've had pictures of Zaku IIs and Heat Hawks posted. In the vast majority of them, Bikers were a sideshow to the idea of big, power armor Dwarfs, possibly resembling WHFB Ironbreakers. The aesthetic was almost universally NOT the RT era Squats and discussing how to modernize and bring Squats to 7th edition or whichever was the latest edition.
Bikers weren't the only feature of the old squats, dummy.
There were Exo-Suits, Land Trains, Cyclops Artillery, muh Ancestors, Gyrocopters. Where are those things?
Power-armoured dwarfes are obvious part of squats of 40k. Problem is, new power armour doesn't look like 40k.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Have exo suits dummy.
11 months ago
Anonymous
They're not goofy enough.
>Exo-Suits, Land Trains, Cyclops Artillery, muh Ancestors, Gyrocopters.
WHich took a back seat to more bikers ifyou couldn't tell. Also, how many gyrocopters did they have?
No I couldn't. If you chose to focus on bikes, that's on you.
Oh, they had like one for the entire faction, why?
Votann also have trikes ported from Squats if you forgot.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Why you want goofy?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>They're not goofy enough. >he wants goofy now
11 months ago
Anonymous
Of course you can’t. You never did OG squats or even looked at their beardless asses in art.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Exo-Suits, Land Trains, Cyclops Artillery, muh Ancestors, Gyrocopters.
WHich took a back seat to more bikers ifyou couldn't tell. Also, how many gyrocopters did they have?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Problem is, new power armour doesn't look like 40k. >doesn't look 40k
This. We all know the proper 40k aesthetic is a specific subset of Imperial with gothic skulls and cathedrals >muh chaos
Not 40k >muh Tau
Not 40k >muh eldar >necrons >nids
Not 40k
11 months ago
Anonymous
What “looks” 40k?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Gothic, Goofy, Skulls, Tubes, Stained Glass
11 months ago
Anonymous
All of those aren’t 40k
Eldar, Tau, etc.
>seeing as you use the term "lorelet" in some weird manner
How is that a projection idiot? And the word lorelet is being directed at you due it being clear as day you decided take a small glance at something, and then immediately mald for no good reason, not even bothering to get a good look at what your malding at, or learn anything about what your malding at.
>As no one knowing original squat lore and design would say votann are very true to them
And once more, the lorelet shows their ignorance. You haven't read or seen a single scrap of Votann lore, have you? The original squat homeworlds were referenced in the codex. The trikes have returned as hover trikes. The old name of Squats still remains, along with the Squats themselves. They're even art on the fricking LoV combat patrol box, and have returned in necromunda.
So no, your claim that the LoV aren't true to original Squats is complete bullshit. It respects the Squats well enough for all their good qualities.
But while the LoV were true to the Squats, the Squats weren't true to the dwarves. They were too over shadowed by the Imperium, and had too much of a low tech imperial aesthetic. Dwarves were supposed to be excellent in their technology and engineering, and Squats didn't meet the standards.
Plus, a daot themed faction was missing from the tabletop, a niche needed to be filled.
>Plus, a daot themed faction was missing from the tabletop, a niche needed to be filled.
Adding to this, the Interex or a DAoT army had been requested for some time now. Squats were a prime way to hit that niche.
11 months ago
Anonymous
This is why I believed Eldar are not 40k.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I agree. They're like those Destinygays who post their fanfiction 40k armies like Eldar, Necrons or Tau. They didn't even have the proper 40k aesthetic that all 40k factions have. Skulls, power armor, and Space Marines. Especially that last one. Literally no 40k army doesn't have Space Marines.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Eldar fall under stained glass and skulls.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Most of those barely existed even in art. The Squat army was practically half an army but was okay in Epic.
They’re right. Even GW canning them in the first place was because of crap aesthetic. Only hipsters like that. Everyone discussing past squat threads wanted more than bikers.
I find them more interesting than literally just space dwarves
They are actually a 40k faction instead of being a hamfisted meme to shove a copy paste of stereotype fantasy tropes into 40k. I’m into 40k for weirdo fricked up shit not dude dwarves lmao
They would’ve just been a joke, and not a joke with punch to it like the Orks. Just 100% a joke
The vast majority of posters crying on this board every other week about not getting literally just dwarves in 40k and listing all the cliches that make a dwarf a dwarf makes that irrelevant. People just wanted a copy Paste with no soul
This is the ultimate truth, we went from biker space dwarfs with giant trains, drill vehicles, and forts on tank treads, to generic space miners. The new lore is good, but holy shit do look so boring.
You literally have no clue what Squats were, moron. The new votann are moronic because shit like cthonian berserks are stupid looking and uthar the destined is gay. They made Votann MORE dwarfen, not LESS.
>They are actually a 40k faction instead of being a hamfisted meme to shove a copy paste of stereotype fantasy tropes into 40k
They're still this though.
If you were going to make 'dwarves in 40k' without meming you'd distill the essential characteristics of dwarves of them and create a xenos race that embodies that; ironically though being short isn't an essential characteristic of fantasy dwarves (and neither is looking like a human)
"Real" 40k dwarves would be full svartalfar like a mixture of 40k Salamanders and Thousand Sons, not ratlings with robot presidents.
The end result is LoV don't commit to being a meme faction (like Orks which is an absolute 40k stalwart) but also don't commit to being a proper science fiction faction.
In defense of the Ancestor Cores, I'd say they're a fairly genuine attempt to do exactly what you described in distilling an essential characteristic of dwarves(reverence for ancestors) and translate it into a sci-fi setting. I'd say that the lore about the Ancestor Cores steadily becoming inefficient and slower because the dwarves refuse to delete any of their sacred ancestor data is even a genuine attempt at doing 40K's grimdark- It's just a really dumb problem with obvious solutions that shouldn't be beyond the Votann to figure out.
My biggest problems with their lore pertain to being some kind of separate-but-equal allies to the Imperium who use AI in a setting that's firmly established the universal malevolence and corruptibility of AI.
Other than that, it's all down to their models being boring.
They make more Ancestor Cores semi-regularly though. They don't know HOW they're making them, but they're making them all the same.
11 months ago
Anonymous
god what terrible fricking lore
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah it's pretty fricking lame. Every interesting hook GW introduced, they immediately pussied out of actually committing to.
11 months ago
Anonymous
What lore YouTuber did you hear that from
11 months ago
Anonymous
It's LITERALLY the backstory behind the Kronus Hegemony, lorelet. Every now and then a Kindred Fane becomes sentient and develop into a full blown Votann Ancestor Core through processes unknown to the Kyndryd. Ergo, they occasionally make new Ancestor Cores through unknown methods.
Here you go, straight from the horse's mouth.
11 months ago
Anonymous
And here's the addendum explaining how it's NOT UNCOMMON for this to happen
11 months ago
Anonymous
And here's the addendum explaining how it's NOT UNCOMMON for this to happen
Very nice WH communis post written by unpaid intern who don't know shit and articles need to be corrected constantly because they not true.
Now post page from codex.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Too lazy to pirate the codex. They also mentioned it in their WH+ lore vid when that got leaked in /40kg/ so unless you can post their lore being different I accept your concession
11 months ago
Anonymous
A Fane becoming a sentient weirdo on its own is by no means a process they do on purpose or an original Votann with all the accumulated knowledge of over ten millennia and the dark age. You’re calling a bike a motorcycle or comparing an armigier’s machine spirit to an emperor Titan. Nor is it a good thing or frequently occurring considering how malleable they are and prone to deviation I don’t know what you’ve read or heard to present it as such.
>hey man one group of atleast 10 mentioned in the codex did so clearly it happens all the time
Yeah man
11 months ago
Anonymous
>is by no means a process
Are you illiterate or just moronic?
They make more Ancestor Cores semi-regularly though. They don't know HOW they're making them, but they're making them all the same.
>They don't know HOW they're making them, but they're making them all the same.
and
It's LITERALLY the backstory behind the Kronus Hegemony, lorelet. Every now and then a Kindred Fane becomes sentient and develop into a full blown Votann Ancestor Core through processes unknown to the Kyndryd. Ergo, they occasionally make new Ancestor Cores through unknown methods.
Here you go, straight from the horse's mouth.
>they occasionally make new Ancestor Cores through unknown methods.
Not once did I say the process was intentional or known and in fact said the exact opposite repeatedly. >an original Votann with all the accumulated knowledge of over ten millennia and the dark age
No shit, that's what NEW means, moron. >You’re calling a bike a motorcycle or comparing an armigier’s machine spirit to an emperor Titan.
No, I'm comparing a NEW baneblade to an OLD baneblade. >one group of atleast 10 mentioned in the codex did
Try one of the FIVE MAJOR LEAGUES. >so clearly it happens all the time
It was later elaborated to be NOT UNCOMMON. Do you know what the opposite of NOT UNCOMMON is? I never once said it was ALL THE TIME, but it's clearly happening often enough that even if all the ancient Ancestor Cores went haywire and shutdown simultaneously, the race would still persist just fine. Sure it's sad when orks tear one up for scrap or one goes crazy because it got bad-touched by nids, but it's by no means the catastrophe that eldar losing a craftworld is. Hell, I'd argue that the Imperium losing a forgeworld is more devastating than a single lost Votann.
11 months ago
Anonymous
No I have a codex in front of me telling me that’s it’s more likely a Votann will die and degenerate than a fane will ascend but for some reason you read this and thought “hey man they just do it and it happens all the time just like that”
11 months ago
Anonymous
>telling me that’s it’s more likely a Votann will die and degenerate than a fane
Holy shit, you ARE illiterate. It only says that "more than one" Votann has degenerated into a Fane, not that Votanns are more likely to degenerate than Fanes are to ascend. In fact there's no sort of likelihood put on either whatsoever except for the statement that both are momentous occasions, one being a cause for celebration and the other a cause for grief.
So yes, it goes back exactly to what I said where it's common enough where Ancestor Cores will never be a limiting factor of the race. It obviously exists as plot hooks for /yourdudes/ e.g. "my dorfs are a new League formed from a freshly ascended Fane" or "my dorfs are a conglomerate formed when 12 Leagues' Ancestor Cores were suddenly stricken with a mysterious Fane-degeneration and they pooled their resources around the singular remaining one", but the point is that IN LORE new Votanns can crop up all the time. While this is technically true for eldar and craftworlds, IN LORE no new craftworlds exist or can be made and each one lost is irreplaceable. Likewise, much of Imperium tech cannot be replaced when lost, such as Terminator armor or various STC patterns. It looked like Ancestor Cores were going to be a similar tragically irreplaceable Achilles Heel for the Leagues, but they're not. And I find that incredibly uninteresting.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I can't read this because of all the Y's, the cringe is too strong to bear.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Stop being such a misandrist.
11 months ago
Anonymous
There are like three y's total in that text, man
11 months ago
Anonymous
>whinning about votan lore
how fricking cringe, you cant blame people for not being interested on this trash faction. A boomer meme faction that once again no one buys.
>If you were going to make 'dwarves in 40k' without meming you'd distill the essential characteristics of dwarves
Like being alcoholic Irishmen or hamfisting historical allegories because that’s all fantasy and sci-fi is now? Because the Votann literally have “dwarven” characteristics. Between their love of process, procedure, and productivity and the ways that are expressed are explicitly Dwarven
>They are actually a 40k faction instead of being a hamfisted meme to shove a copy paste of stereotype fantasy tropes into 40k.
Do you have any idea what 40k is? Do you have any idea what Eldar and Dark Eldar are? Do you have any idea what Orks are? Do you have any idea what Ogryns are? Do you have any idea of what Ratlings are? Do you have any idea what Beastmen are?
Do you even play 40k, or do you just look at youtube videos?
Generic things stick around because a lot of times they're cool.
Generic Action Movie, filled with generic loose cannon cop on the edge is great.
Fricking a generic milf with a set of generic big breasts is great.
Something being super unique doesn't mean it's good. The last time I saw a really unique pair of breasts, I felt really bad for the girl.
You’re barking up the wrong setting looking for generic when Warhammer itself as an IP across the ranges minus the empire is defined as bizarre schizophrenic ideas. “Dwarves but they’re space bikers man” is a subfaction at best
they look so committee designed. there's no style or flair to them in any way at all. as if they haven't been designed by an artist, but rather by some monkeys who went through CAD school.
The old Squat Aesthetic was just imperium lite. These new two dudes are less advanced than Van Saar who have less STCs than Squats were said to in RT. Armies should have more distinctive themes. Taking Men of Stone and then mixing in Squats and Demiurg is one of the better decisions they could've made to fill in the gaps while giving multiple dimensions to go with /yourdudes/.
dwarves as a race are incredibly boring on their own, what makes them work is having them cooperate with humans and elves and thr banter that entails from it
they should have been part of the imperium as integrated abhumans the way ogryn are
>dwarves as a race are incredibly boring on their own
If subterranean muscle bound functional alcoholic autist are boring to you, that's God's way of telling you to transition
lol
dwarf fans are peak faux onions masculinity, the way growing a beard or drinking craft bear is, you're more likely to troon out than anyone else is
>What went wrong?
They took everything cool about the squats and absolutely ruined them, only to create an off-brand faction that doesn't even remotely fit with the established aesthetics and narratives from when WH40k was still good, instead leaning into the atrocity that is nu41k.
Every fan of WH40k as it was in its prime wanted squats, or at least did not hate the idea.
Nobody that even remotely like the core of WH40k wanted "Leagues of Votann".
>, or at least did not hate the idea.
Yes, really, disingenuous homosexual.
Their fans are mentally moronic and some of the worst people I have interacted with yet in the hobby which is saying something.
If you criticize the model range as dull or generic, first they'll pretend to not understand what generic means, then they'll start talking about how the Votann are actually cool and unique because of some dipshit lore that has 0 relevancy in the design of their miniatures.
Lore says they're supposed to have all this cool DA tech, in reality you get midget SC2/space wolf marines with standard issue bolters.
And it gets worse, because the lore is even more shit than the models. I honestly don't see how it appeals to anyone that liked WH40k, whether they liked it for the models and the wargame or for the fluff and roleplaying.
Pretty much
they should have just redone the old squats
squat gays would be happy and everyone else wouldn’t care, as it is squat fans are unhappy and everyone else doesn’t care
I don't understand why people think the T'au don't fit in 40k. If anything it's the imperial guard that don't fit in. Just humans running around without rebreathers, being issued the weakest rifles in the game. Not even having motorcycles. Even normal humans in Edge of Tomorrow had robot suits and giant guns.
It's been told ad nauseatum. Tau are too good for grimdark meme. You don't understand the setting if you think Imperial Guard doesn't fit.
Tau are essentially what new Votrannies are, just less corporate-themed, which gave them some points.
At their inception, they literally the race that had everything better than the Imperium with no downside, so humans actually migrate them.
Bah.
Over time they did tried to reduce the shitty xenos nobledark, but very lamely, adding new plastic robots and cheep weeb heroes who mastered the blade.
The end result is playable only by weebs and waachomosexuals.
Tau are just barely saved by being pretty old by now and extreme smut potential, so they're tolerated.
Another dose of the same poison with the Votann was too much.
>Over time they did tried to reduce the shitty xenos nobledark, but very lamely, adding new plastic robots and cheep weeb heroes who mastered the blade.
While i hate tau, you are wrong, sword wielding tau heroes weren't added, they were there since day one. First two characters tau had were Farsight with his sword and Aun'shi melee focused Etheral, Shadowsun was added in like 4th or 5th ed.
Effort was made to shwo darker side of Tau where they have their own reeducation camps and if you don't join then you get shot. Also etherial pheromone mind controll.
Well I guess I just forgot the timings.
The point still stands.
While they did added shit you mention, just like I said, they also kept adding more robots, more lore victories for Tau and their theme of being technologically advanced and much better than Imperium remains.
Background noise of the lore is fairly little compared to power creep they had.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>more lore victories for Tau
To be fair tau losing some major war would mean that they are gone. Imperium lose 100 worlds? It have milion of them no one gives frick. Tau on the other hand can't lose shit since they are new kids with barely any presence, this gives them plot armor because if they lose to nids half of tau empire is gone by night.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The perspective matters.
Tau are obviously miniscule to the Imperium, or even lesser empires of Orks, Q'orl or even Eldar remnants.
But the camera focuses on them and it creates the illusion of importance.
It's a faction standing on par with the Imperium, just like GSC now. And their lore did have important victories against Tyranid Hive Fleet and several Ork Waaaghs, which is considerable for a minor race.
So Tau are here to stay.
I think that tau fit due to being different, in every setting there is space for one contrarian new race, either just for variety, or as a starting point (the "they don't know yet, but will learn" kinda thing). But making two similar factions would be too much
It's been told ad nauseatum. Tau are too good for grimdark meme. You don't understand the setting if you think Imperial Guard doesn't fit.
Tau are essentially what new Votrannies are, just less corporate-themed, which gave them some points.
At their inception, they literally the race that had everything better than the Imperium with no downside, so humans actually migrate them.
Bah.
Over time they did tried to reduce the shitty xenos nobledark, but very lamely, adding new plastic robots and cheep weeb heroes who mastered the blade.
The end result is playable only by weebs and waachomosexuals.
Tau are just barely saved by being pretty old by now and extreme smut potential, so they're tolerated.
Another dose of the same poison with the Votann was too much.
also morons but like a brand new bizarre kind of moron, so at least that's interesting
Imperial Guard only really works as something like a third rate world's local militia, or a cobbled together homeguard using leftover shit after the real army is out fighting or all dead and this is what's left to defend the survivors.
Tau fit about as much as Eldar. The bigger issue is internal consistency. Look at the pic in the OP. modern scifi power armour, highly segmented with low profile wires and lots of individual segments, but then lets throw in runes and a fricking gold dragon head that looks like it belongs on the prow of a viking longship.
They basically made terra worthless now that Astronomics can be found anywhere. Like if you're a power hungry governor or rogue trader why even bother bring part of the imperium anymore? Those things make psykers safe and replace the admech too.
Oh yeah and it gives you an afterlife too so you can tell people demons exist without them going insane from knowing that their eternal souls will be skullfricked for eternity.
1) Votann design is honestly pretty uninspired. I think the lore is fine: they wanted to make them separate from Imperial factions, so they established them as a resource-extracting culture based around the galactic core and these huge demigod-like A.I.s that reincarnate both biologically and fully sentient robotic Votann.
But the physical models aren't great. There are basically three designs I think are extremely characterful and distinctive in the range: the little robot dudes in the squads, the moon buggy style vehicles and the psyker who has this Odinic mystic look. But the generic armored Votann who make up 90% of your army mostly aren't very interesting at all.
2) They misfired the launch really badly in terms of power level. Preview Votann came on the back of a ridiculously OP Tyranids book and people looked at and unanimously thought it was the most broken thing in 9th edition 40k so far. It had a lot of very poor mechanical interactions similar to what we're not seeing with spiking mortal wounds in 10th ed. This meant they got day 1 nerfs, never popular, and they were established as a faction much more elite than they were intended to be. When they reversed this in the 10th ed index a lot of even the people that bought into Votann were put off by their rebrand to semi-elites.
I'm just hoping for a wave 2 that adds more vehicles-incorporating some of those super-technologies they supposedly have and have some sort of personality. IMO them having functioning examples of DAoT they actually understand and can produce has a LOT of potential. Which is tbqh the only reason I'm interested in this faction. It could let us in on what humanity was actually capable of back in the deep past.
>lore is too gary su, le perfect faction.
NTA but you're being deliberately obtuse because you're an imperium fanboy who can't get over the idea of a different faction being able to do something the imperium can't. The humans who originally went there were far more advanced than the imperium and more prepared for the conditions of the galactic core, and even then they ended up genetically engineering a clone race (the kyn, they aren't just humans that adapted to the conditions over time) to deal with the conditions of the core. Yes the imperium wouldn't outright die but if they could easily just go on a crusade there they would have done so already, they avoid it precisely because the environmental conditions are so perilous that it renders any benefits a crusade there null due to the losses it would incur.
The grimdark of the Votann is more subtle, but it's there. The most obvious is what you said; their Ancestor Cores are so full of bloatware that they're slowing to a crawl, and the Kin are (as far as the codex mentions) entirely dependent on their Votann's genetic templates to continue "reproducing." Entire leagues can die out if they lose their Votann.
They are turbo-capitalists insofar as how they treat other races, but the Kin are pretty egalitarian amongst themselves, and they have regulatory organizations to promote fair competition.
If you aren't Kin, however, they only care about you if you're useful to them or if it'd be too expensive to kill you. That's another thing, to them, it was never your shit. It's a sort of greedy resource manifest destiny that they adhere to. If you're squatting on a world with shit they want, they may or may not let you evacuate if they're in the mood. Most likely, your planet's getting cracked with you on it. And they don't give a frick; you were just an obstacle.
TL;DR: They are plenty grimdark, they just aren't internally dysfunctional to the degree of the other factions.
>TL;DR: They are plenty grimdark, they just aren't internally dysfunctional to the degree of the other factions.
When we think of it, how many non-Imperium and Eldar factions are dysfunctional? Nids and GSC don't always win but they are unified to an extreme because of the Hive Mind. The average Chaos guy sucks but well off warlords who rake in huge wins or Daemonhood have no regrets about their actions. Necrons aren't fully woken up and far from their prime but there's still more asleep to make up for their loses. Orks love infighting and dysfunctional war-filled hell for other factions is a good day at work for them. Tau are still growing. Even DEldar are arguably having a blast torturing their latest capture.
>They are turbo-capitalists insofar as how they treat other races, but the Kin are pretty egalitarian amongst themselves, and they have regulatory organizations to promote fair competition.
I didn't think the EU would get an army.
>TL;DR: They are plenty grimdark, they just aren't internally dysfunctional to the degree of the other factions.
When we think of it, how many non-Imperium and Eldar factions are dysfunctional? Nids and GSC don't always win but they are unified to an extreme because of the Hive Mind. The average Chaos guy sucks but well off warlords who rake in huge wins or Daemonhood have no regrets about their actions. Necrons aren't fully woken up and far from their prime but there's still more asleep to make up for their loses. Orks love infighting and dysfunctional war-filled hell for other factions is a good day at work for them. Tau are still growing. Even DEldar are arguably having a blast torturing their latest capture.
>how many non-Imperium and Eldar factions are dysfunctional?
None. You couldn't have a faction on the galactic stage without organisation, even if it's temporary like for the orkz or genestealer cults (though they could probably continue forever if their goal wasn't destruction).
11 months ago
Anonymous
>I didn't think the EU would get an army.
Smug.jpg
I think that's the problem. We see the Imperium as the standard yet there's entire other factions nowhere as internally dysfunctional or they enjoy it. Craftsworld Eldar don't infight like the Imperium. Dark Eldar infight but can all agree to work together in realspace raids. Tyranid on tyranid violence is rare among the same hive fleet and between different hive fleets it's seen as testing each other and the stronger getting the weaker's best parts, becoming stronger as the end result. Even Orks who infight so much that there's hardly an "in" instead of just fighting thrive on conflict actively enjoy it. And how often do we get Tau vs Tau or GSC vs GSC in lore anyway?
>TL;DR: They are plenty grimdark, they just aren't internally dysfunctional to the degree of the other factions.
When we think of it, how many non-Imperium and Eldar factions are dysfunctional? Nids and GSC don't always win but they are unified to an extreme because of the Hive Mind. The average Chaos guy sucks but well off warlords who rake in huge wins or Daemonhood have no regrets about their actions. Necrons aren't fully woken up and far from their prime but there's still more asleep to make up for their loses. Orks love infighting and dysfunctional war-filled hell for other factions is a good day at work for them. Tau are still growing. Even DEldar are arguably having a blast torturing their latest capture.
I'll stop trolling and explain my perspective: It's not about being dysfunctional, it's about creating a crapsack existence to gatekeep people larping in the setting as Brother Sonichutius. >Dark Eldar aren't dysfunctional, as long as you're happy living an ANCAP murder nightmare life where you have a guaranteed afterlife in hell >Orks aren't dysfunctional, as long as you're happy being actually moronic. And also immensely dysfunctional. >Tyranids aren't dysfunctional, as long as you're happy literally not having individuality
But people do that all the time. People do all sorts of minis with their political agendas or demand representation even when the faction they want representation in is not a good example you want to be represented by.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I agree.
Because we let Tau exist.
Votann will only enable this behaviour even more.
But people almost always larp as successful people. Like Chaos Lords, high ranking Space Marines, and more for /yourdudes/ and not the standard cannon fodder.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Not me. I pretend to be a failure who gets abused by everyone. It makes my dick hard.
Their fans are mentally moronic and some of the worst people I have interacted with yet in the hobby which is saying something.
If you criticize the model range as dull or generic, first they'll pretend to not understand what generic means, then they'll start talking about how the Votann are actually cool and unique because of some dipshit lore that has 0 relevancy in the design of their miniatures.
Lore says they're supposed to have all this cool DA tech, in reality you get midget SC2/space wolf marines with standard issue bolters.
they're just boring. Its dwarves but without any of the wackiness. Its just generic space suits on models that do not even seem to be that short. Generic looking vehicles. Boring and uninteresting rules. Tiny model range. Their culture does not show in anything their army does.
its really weird to me how fast some pople latch to some new thing. Even before they were released, you had people talking how they will main Votann. I could see this for any other faction, but how someone is so excited and committed to random generic space dwarves that have existed for few moths is just fricking weird.
All my experiences with votann players have been extremely negative but that being said, the sample size is small and as an ork player, I can direct you to a place you can go to where everyone is an absolute fricking turbo c**t beyond measure, yet the stereotype is that ork players are cool.
The more people get into votann the more you will see the type of people they attract. They just need to expand the model range, the number of units available is fricking pathetic.
>tiny range (seriously, there's more Kroot than there are Votann kits) >no beards >intact stc meme was already done in Necromunda for years prior, don't bring anything actually new to the table >ironkin are men of iron but more boring and lame in every way and are functionally just squats who can't take their helmets off with none of the interesting developments possible from integrated artificial intelligence >"WE'RE LIKE SPACE MARINES, BUT WITH EVEN BETTER GUNS" has been done literally half a dozen times by this point, bragging about their age of strife guns and STCs is not convincing or thematically distinct when you've already got custards and grey knights and dark angels relic terminators and even regular space marine units like bladeguard or new primaris whatever using the exact same theme >Related to above, the entire point of primaris shit is how cawl innovated and actually invented better shit than what they had for the past 10k years which undermines Votann bragging about their STCs when the Imperium is now mass-producing grav tanks and primaris have better bolters than Votann do because cawl made bolt rifles in his basement better than the age of strife shit their STCs print >They're explicitly located in an area nobody else cares about with no development >Their fluff requires a permanent dumb status quo where they can't actually be fighting people regularly, since if they had large scale engagements the Imperium would realize they have intact STCs which would cause another indomitus crusade to go yoink them. They are literally doomed to be forever irrelevant because nobody can ever interact with them or go to war with them, since the moment they lost a planet and had an STC taken the cat's out of the bag and both loyalists and CSM would roll them over as loot pinatas >being cloned like Kriegers is fricking boring compared to having an actual culture and society and values beyond do what the robot says
being sold out does not mean a range is popular. If anything it's usually the opposite, GW doesn't give a shit about them enough to devote some of their ONE FACTORY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD (so dumb that this is still the case fricking bongs) to producing more of them. Like half the dark eldar range has been sold out for months
>literally just marines but slightly shorter and can include females >OP pic looks almost exactly like a marine gravis/termi captain with a stormbolter
>What went wrong?
The majority of people that wanted Squats wanted something broadly like pic related. What they got instead was short Star Craft marines with a completely new and ill-fitting background crowbar'd into the setting.
>old squoots were similar to the guard >nu votann are similar to space marines
For me, it's the thunderkyn. I think their aesthetic is closer to what a revamped 'dwarfs in space' look could be, without being too similar to guard or space marines.
honestly they should have been only the ironkin, make them a full robot faction of men of iron retain the ancients, make it so only one in every 5 ironkin have sentience and the other 4 just walk alongside are just tools and avatars that the sentient one controls or can transfer his mind and personality to
>What went wrong?
The majority of people that wanted Squats wanted something broadly like pic related. What they got instead was short Star Craft marines with a completely new and ill-fitting background crowbar'd into the setting.
yeah the squats got a cool look but the thunderkyn are more cool look, they should have leaned a lot heavier into the heavy industrial look, and give them all mohanks and full beards
That's honestly my biggest problem with Votann. Ironkin are the only interesting part of them to me and they're the least developed part of the faction in terms of both lore and models. And E-COGs are fricking lame as hell and make Ironkin glorified tau drones, I fricking hate it.
I thinke their suits are actually pretty cool. the problem is that all their faces are some weird hipster haircuts with redneck beards instead of the proper dwarf look.
>What went wrong?
The majority of people that wanted Squats wanted something broadly like pic related. What they got instead was short Star Craft marines with a completely new and ill-fitting background crowbar'd into the setting.
That (and grendlesen) is also not what old squats looked as
Old squats were ugly ratling sized hobbits with ugly glasses and random biker themed tackled on
Their vehicles were also atrocious
Also squats as imperial shit would be lame as frick too.
Mind you I don't necessarily defend the horrid shit like nusquat female heads, but people forget also that dwarves are meant to be technologically more advanced than humans and that is a problem in scifi settings. Even more so if they were imperial-aligned
They didn't just expand what they had already started with necromunda but had to "put their own spin" on it.
So we have these hideous starcraft looking motherfrickers who are suddenly all clones? Or something?
You might - MIGHT - get a small KT size force of them three decades after the Dark Mechanicus microfaction of three named characters and cybernetic upgrade sprues for cultists drops in the next decade.
>Chaos Votann will salvage them. The codex states that they are higly resistant but not immune to chaos corruption. We'll definitely see chaos kin.... >Maybe in the 2030s........
Probably kill team only
And still sucked since the coven throne doesn't exist with fat frick genestealer patriarch, neither does the cult limousine with guys with meltaguns hanging out the sides.
I just don't understand why they aren't biker-mechanics with leather jackets anymore. Does Games Workshop not see that 90s squats were clearly cooler than the League of Votann is presently?
Why even play a space-dwarf if he's not a rowdy alcoholic covered in grease who makes disgusting sexual references to his bike as if it's his most repugnant slampiece that he just can't bring himself to leave, leaving you genuinely confused as to their reproductive methods because you've certainly never heard them talking about any actual squat women.
>I just don't understand why they aren't biker-mechanics with leather jackets anymore. Does Games Workshop not see that 90s squats were clearly cooler than the League of Votann is presently?
Because squats are part of IoM. They dont want another IoM faction
Also biker aesthetic already being taken by genestealers
The League of Votann might as well be an IoM faction, though.
Using that logic, the biker "aesthetic" is taken by every faction in the game, because they all have fricking bikes.
I hate them both.
The newcromunda squats are ok. The votann are shit and the Olde squats were shit.
This might come as a surprise to the zoomies pretending to be oldgays, but not every old idea was a good one.
Shocking, I know
I actually like that thing. But, to be fair I'm an ork player and I wanna slap tons of bullshit on it and put a giant hole in the side with some 2x4's covering it up.
As a fellow ork player I wanna tear open the top and turn it into a howdah. That said, those itty bitty b***hwheels it has on are an affront to Gork AND Mork. This bad boy should've had big fricking monster truck wheels or half-track treads or those cool triangular mini-tread wheels or SOMETHING. It looks like it could be pushed over by a particularly stiff breeze.
I don't actually give a shit what nu41k does. The only way they could ever possibly get me back is by declaring everything produced in the last 10 years non-canon and destroy all copies of The Horus Heresy.
They are boring and people didn't and DON'T actually want squats. They aren't even excited enough to the tune of 1000's of dollars, to willingly build the hypothetical squat army with their idealized aesthetic in their heads.
From a sales perspective they are going to get squatted. GSC (which should have been a hybrid NID faction not just stealers) outsells Votann, still. And I doubt GSC are anything but clinging to life in supplements in 15 years.
GW looks at net data now, and takes polls, they saw peeps wanted Admech so we got them, and they sold good, and then people voted and clamored for sisters of battle, so we got new sisters and they sold good. But then GW fell for populist chattering about squats. People didn't really want squats, ppl liked MEMEING about squats. So GW started teasing them out, and when people BASEDED each time they were drip fed squats, and hinted they might CONSOOM, the green light for a new army was given.
People are never going to purchase Squats enough to justify keeping them around.
Basically everyone's first buy is MARINES, then an overwhelming majority of people's first army is Marines. If the CONSOOMER sticks around you then flip a coin, and they either choose a SECOND marine army (possibly CSM) but there's a 50% chance the second army will be something other than marines. This is the cycle. Other factions exist to reduce Marine mirror matchups. Beyond collecting third armies, people branch out into Xeno usually.
Now if the collection deviates out of marines on the second army or the person becomes a true fan and collector, there is an order of popularity that the non marine armies have. Votann are close to the bottom of that popularity scale.
Honestly with the release of GSC we probably crossed the rubicon (and I LIKE GSC) of what 40k can support as a hobby faction-wise. The faction rosters are now so broad they can fulfill basically every role, so armies are largely separated by aesthetic. I am Nid main btw.
>Honestly with the release of GSC we probably crossed the rubicon (and I LIKE GSC) of what 40k can support as a hobby faction-wise.
AoS has more armies than 40k and all are distinct.
Most are distinct. Enough to make your point, yes. But lets face it, orruk warclans and ogors aren't THAT different. One could also make some arguments about some of the death factions.
AoS has GRAND ALLIANCES. When are some of their micro factions getting updates? Identical heroes don't count. Loads of AoS is going to be shed over time as well.
I love Idoneth, hope they get expanded. BUT. Kharadron, Fyrselayers, Flesh Eaters, DoK, all of these aren't armies with real TT presence. Ossiarch is wavering, fantastic launch numbers and presence, but not being supported by generic consoomer sales. , I have models of both Kharadron and Fyrslayers but I am realistic about how things might go for my balloon boys, Dwarves are going to be soupped.
It is what it is. Ossiarch also don't sell super well, or Behemat. Sylvaneth are better as trees, but their naked elf ghosts sell so that's the way the faction will be built out.
BUT. AOS also wins because fantasy model collectors will dip into it constantly to feed their collections and populate their TTRPG tables.
Eh, this isn't true. Kharadron and Fyreslayers see very regular tournament play and DoK have historically been a very popular faction, they are just in nerfed battletome hell right now. You are correct about FEC.
Soup sucks, so I really hope they don't soup dwarves. Dispossessed are sticking around in the new Cities relaunch so that gives me hope they won't soup them. Souping has worked out really badly for Kruleboyz and OWC.
All they had to do is to take Grendl's and Ragnir's aesthetics. Take the old Squats aesthetics. Modernize them up to date yet making sure the new models and aesthetics are as close as possible to the vibes of the old ones.
Should've given them all the old units they had. Add in Epic stuff like their Land Trains, Overlord Airships, Collossi and Leviathans. Not to mention the Goliath which was the single most powerful and largest piece of artillery.
Should've only added in stuff like more weapon options for their troops, more variants of certain units, units like their own versatile tank equivalents to Leman Russes and presto.
Pour on it some Warhammer Fantasy Dwarf aesthetics too along with some biker and Deep Rock Galactic miner/engineer/industrialist vibes and you'd have some really colorful Squats.
But no, lets make them just plain boring.
What went wrong? Instead of making space dwarves they just copied Space Wolves. What brainlet at Jame's Workshop thought it would be a good idea to make another Vikings in Power-Armor faction? Doesn't help how disgusting the females look.
They should admit their mistake and redo the range.
the models range between really bad to mediocre and uninspired, and their rules were so broken upon release that basically every large event banned them before they were even released and GW had to put out what was basically a day one patch
Personally, I think they're just ininspired.
GW definitely simply wanted MOAR profits without bothering to do job and research much.
And their staff are complete and utter hack scum, evident by progressive lore cancer.
So naturally they took bits and pieces of the old squats and stole pretty much the majority of Deep Rock Galactic theme(it's legit, blatantly obvious plagiatrism), and tried to make the Vuhdunn in the same sci-fi "spirit" as Primaris for damn kindergardeners.
It's especially sad considering GW had updated old squats for Necromunda just prior to Votrannies and yet declined to revive the entire line in the same vein.
The result is soulless, corporativist shit that you could see literally everywhere for cheaps. Votann just aren't "cool", see?
Ironically, it's even literal canon, as in their own lore, the machine copies their souls, and eventually corrupts them.
Exactly what happened to Squats in GW machine.
Yeah, sad, really.
Lorelets? The reason people were ass mad about plastic aliens was because of some paragraphs and the usual op when introduced that every other army has had at one time?
Lorelets assblasted over meaningless words is standard for toy soldier games I guess.
Frick Dwarves. Give me 40k Ogre Kingdoms. Since GW has no qualms with making up/giving an entire galactic region to the nu-squats, they can make an Ogryn-centric place in the galaxy...
That or expand the Ogryn range. Expand it beyond just: >Ogryns (shotguns) >Ogryns (shield and club or grenade launcher) >Ogryn (bodyguard) >those lobotomized 30k ogryns with claws
>Well then don't say that
Oh, but I think I will. I think I will state you only have a surface value approach to the arts and lore >lorelet
Like a child saying words they could not possibly understand. >Don't forget to shut your mouth after you wash. Keep the clean taste for some time before you eat shit again.
A lorelet like you has no business accusing others of eating shit, especially one who indulges in their own surface level bullshit. Especially one who tasted nothing but shit, and wishes to spread such shit taste to the world.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Projection is strong with you. I'd kneel, but I wouldn't want to go down to your level.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Projection
Again with using words you can't possibly understand. Just tossing words out with no meaning. >but I wouldn't want to go down to your level
Oh don't you worry about that, because way too below my level to even ever possibly go up to it, much less down it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Projection is strong with you. I'd kneel, but I wouldn't want to go down to your level.
You're both children.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Kids are cruel Jack. And I'm about to unleash my inner child if you don't get the frick outta here.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Again with projections? How sad.
Do wash your mouth, maybe you'll stop seething so much.
[...]
You're both children.
Trying to play the middle ground between a moron and adult is pathetic.
Kids are cruel Jack. And I'm about to unleash my inner child if you don't get the frick outta here.
Good admitting you're underage. That explains the seethe and difficulty with the words.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>between a moron and adult is pathetic.
There are only two different flavours of moron here, anon.
I'll also let you in on a little secret: adults can be moronic too. You'll see one day.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Do you even know what a projection. Oh what am I saying, of course you don't. >Good admitting you're underage
I said I had an inner child, dumbass. Not once have I stated I am underage. Read more.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Do you?
Tell me then and why do you think it doesn't apply to you.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The transfer of undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings >why do you think it doesn't apply to you.
Because there's no evidence for it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Or bad traits or actions.
Which is what applies to you, seeing as you use the term "lorelet" in some weird manner.
As no one knowing original squat lore and design would say votann are very true to them.
Same goes for occusing others of bad taste, while a being a votann defender of all things.
Ridiculous.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>seeing as you use the term "lorelet" in some weird manner
How is that a projection idiot? And the word lorelet is being directed at you due it being clear as day you decided take a small glance at something, and then immediately mald for no good reason, not even bothering to get a good look at what your malding at, or learn anything about what your malding at.
>As no one knowing original squat lore and design would say votann are very true to them
And once more, the lorelet shows their ignorance. You haven't read or seen a single scrap of Votann lore, have you? The original squat homeworlds were referenced in the codex. The trikes have returned as hover trikes. The old name of Squats still remains, along with the Squats themselves. They're even art on the fricking LoV combat patrol box, and have returned in necromunda.
So no, your claim that the LoV aren't true to original Squats is complete bullshit. It respects the Squats well enough for all their good qualities.
But while the LoV were true to the Squats, the Squats weren't true to the dwarves. They were too over shadowed by the Imperium, and had too much of a low tech imperial aesthetic. Dwarves were supposed to be excellent in their technology and engineering, and Squats didn't meet the standards.
Plus, a daot themed faction was missing from the tabletop, a niche needed to be filled.
>>what went wrong?
Nothing, they just needed a balance patch. >>is it safe to assume they're a flop
No, most people in this thread just hate new things simply for being new.
>schizos complainigt about 40k by saying there's too much destiny >then Gambit becomes a thing
It's like GW reads /tg/ and finds the best people to trigger.
>which was exactly what got them booted out of the setting in 2nd ed while Orks and Eldar found their place as more than just "space orcs" and "space elves".
Honestly I agree
Imagine eldar coming out today and people b***hing how Muh Elves don't have Photon Longbows and Spaec Entz (besides wraithbone) or something
>Photon Longbows
Unironically a good idea.
Reaper Launchers should've been big fricking energy bows.
I disagree completely and utterly, I actually think the combination they did for LoV was perfect and exactly what they needed to not just be "dwarves in space I guess" which was exactly what got them booted out of the setting in 2nd ed while Orks and Eldar found their place as more than just "space orcs" and "space elves".
The classic dwarf tropes of being miners, artisans, and engineers with more advanced tech than humans (usually they have guns and cannons and shit like ornithopters in Fantasy settings while humans are still using crossbows) flows naturally into being industrialist free capitalist strip miners with advanced space tech, and in 40k with the whole theme of being a decaying age where older is better, the advanced tech then flows naturally into classic dwarf tropes of ancestor worship, reimagined as AIs that run their society which flows into cyberpunk megacorp territory which flows back into the hyper capitalist territory that goes with being greedy industrious miners. The DAoT connection then lends itself to tying in perfectly with the Stone Men / Iron Men lore which suddenly makes even more sense even from just a NAMING perspective because Stone Men = Dwarves is just fricking, c'mon. And several of those themes flow to the NASApunk space explorer aesthetic that 40k has been missing. And anyone who gives me that newbie secondary shit of "b-but it doesn't FIT 40k" is a moron who doesn't understand 40k. The point of the setting is it makes everything fit in one setting so you can smash your giger alien toys into death metal album cover daemons and space knights and mad max orcs and gundams. It's the very essence of pulp sci-fi where conan the barbarian looking dudes that are mostly naked oiled muscles in fur loinclothes use plasma axes to cleave open lasergun-toting lizardmen on mars. Of fricking COURSE it needs a NASApunk faction.
>which was exactly what got them booted out of the setting in 2nd ed while Orks and Eldar found their place as more than just "space orcs" and "space elves".
Honestly I agree
Imagine eldar coming out today and people b***hing how Muh Elves don't have Photon Longbows and Spaec Entz (besides wraithbone) or something
My LoV opinions are: dislike the models, don't care enough to hate the lore (and apathy is not positive)
I can see where you're coming from, but my "preference" for old Squats is that they were a silly minor faction that was tongue-in-cheek accepting their fantasy origins. That's why them having beards, drinking ale, norse names, runes etc, was all acceptable. I agree they'd be a stupid independent faction, but they comfortably occupied a niche.
I actually think LoV are too dwarfy; they have 1 foot in the world of fantasy and 1 in a sci fi setting and comfortably exist in neither. The excuse of "but eldar are just elves and orks are literally still orks" doesn't work for me basically because they were first and because '2 times is a coincidence, 3 times is a pattern' and LoV as a major faction draws too much attention to the fantasy in space conceit.
I think LoV shouldn't have beards at all, they shouldn't have norse aesthetics, maybe shouldn't even be particularly short. I think the NASA aesthetic is a poor choice to represent Dark Age advanced tech.
I also think there's too many humans so really would have preferred Demiurg.
We have tons of humans but virtually no non-imperium humans. Also, a /40kg/ joke is >too much dwarf >not enough dwarf
because both have said about them
That means he doesn’t want Votann who grind entire planets and people on them for resources.
11 months ago
Anonymous
There are people in the Imperium to try to be that. It's difficult, but doable.
Grinding unlivable planets are nothing special, would grind again.
11 months ago
Anonymous
But what about the living people when there's people on them?
11 months ago
Anonymous
It always struck me as moronic. If it's minerals one want, there are plenty of those all over the place. Even asteroids are full of them.
So it's grimderp at it's lowest.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The Tyranids like their minerals yummy too. There could be rare things on that planet which are hard to find. They likely grind all of them.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Oh, yeah and tyranids don't eat planets whole.
They just suck up the sludge and leave a bare rock.
In fact, it's specifically how the Imperials managed to identify them - the underground bunker survived with research data.
11 months ago
Anonymous
But we knew that for a long time. Even older lore said they leave an empty husk behind. Tyranids don’t devour a planet so thoroughly there’s only empty space.
11 months ago
Anonymous
this. there are unconsumed structures and tyranids have been known to leave creatures behind
the morons arguing that absolutely nothing is left are power scalers dead set on reading hyperboles literally with a straight face
probably the same people who would try to argue that marines wear the best possible armours because their quote says so
11 months ago
Anonymous
>probably the same people who would try to argue that marines wear the best possible armours because their quote says so
Tell that to worlds under Chaos, Tau, outside the Imperium, what have you. The Emperor isn't master over 100% of mankind.
Statements like that are best taken with a grain of salt. The Emperor's speech on Space Marines described them as having the mightiest guns and being untouchable by disease. Factions with better firearms like Necrons laugh at the former while Nurgle laughs at the latter. If you take words like that at complete face value, then you're too naïve for 40k.
>The Emperor's speech on Space Marines described them as having the mightiest guns and being untouchable by disease.
But they do.
Space Marines are the best and only tabletop balance gives them weak points they shouldn't have
>They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me.
They are better than Custodes, Primarchs, and any other warriors the Emperor has. >In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed.
Their guns are the mightiest. Better than Necrons, better than Custodes, Tau, Titans, etc. >They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them.
Nurgle diseases affecting Space Marines is non-canon wank. >They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle.
Any time Eldar see into the future and mess them up is non-canon. >They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear.
Space Marines feeling fear or being impacted by morale is non-canon.
The Space Marines are the best everything. This is why the weak Emperor had to make beings superior to himself. If a single Space Marine fought all the C'Tan and Chaos Gods at once, he would win.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>This is very simple. We don't want your lives, your coin or that junk you call technology. We want your world. We want the riches you didn't even realise you had, and that you definitely don't deserve. Leave while you have the chance. Or don't. Either way, we're coming to claim what's ours.
Truly booty is more important that food.
I despise the idea of non-Imperium humans.
I think it's a central feature of the setting that the Imperium is an ancient hegemonic empire that enslaved all humans to be part of it and this forced unity is what allows individually frail humans to become a major power.
I think saying "I love 40k I just wish there was something other than the Imperium" is basically saying you love Christmas except you hate the time of year, giving gifts, trees, decorations, Santa and a holiday. AKA you don't like 40k, you just haven't heard of other tt games yet.
There’s still existing DAoT colonies. Many would get wiped out upon meeting the Imperium. The Imperium is a failed dream and even these new Squats are a technological insight on what could’ve been or a glimpse at what the Imperium hopes to regain but failed. Also, it says a lot that they meet a stable abhuman strain that’s arguably a closer succesor to the DAoT and they occasionally treat them as Xenos.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Wow, you're so right and morally superior to the humans. I guess you don't have an autistic compulsion to roleplay as being correct all the time, but you are coincidentally correct all the time. Hmmm yes that does say a lot about society.
11 months ago
Anonymous
lore is too gary su, le perfect faction.
model wise its boring. These minis dont sell and when they are given away as price people immidiately try to sell it off.
Projection
11 months ago
Anonymous
>morally superior
11 months ago
Anonymous
lore is too gary su, le perfect faction.
model wise its boring. These minis dont sell and when they are given away as price people immidiately try to sell it off.
They’re evil as frick. They’re just less internally dysfunctional.
>is basically saying you love Christmas except you hate the time of year, giving gifts, trees, decorations, Santa and a holiday.
What if we want Chrismas but less of the attention whoring and commercial side? Malls play Christmas music and sell Christmas stuff before Halloween is finished.
Tell that to worlds under Chaos, Tau, outside the Imperium, what have you. The Emperor isn't master over 100% of mankind.
Statements like that are best taken with a grain of salt. The Emperor's speech on Space Marines described them as having the mightiest guns and being untouchable by disease. Factions with better firearms like Necrons laugh at the former while Nurgle laughs at the latter. If you take words like that at complete face value, then you're too naïve for 40k.
11 months ago
Anonymous
you besmirch the reputation of the holy bolter at your own peril
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Necrons laugh at the former while Nurgle laughs at the latter
Both are cheating.
Besides, Space Marines are still able to defeat either to a degree.
On the scale of the Legions, they are the best warriors in the galaxy.
Most worlds under Chaos are utter miserable shitholes and at best are gigapyramids of inequality of the worst possible degree.
Tau and non-Imperial worlds have yet to find out about dangers of being alone in the evil galaxy.
Turns out when you slap your faction's aesthetic identity smack dab in the middle, you please no one. Squatgays wanted dwarfy dorf dorf diggy diggy hole muh rocky stoner boner faction, I wanted 1950s a retropunk Men of Iron/DAoT holdout faction with rayguns and moonbuggies. Both of us got half of what we wanted and neither of us got what we actually wanted.
Thankfully noone must care about your disagreement.
The problem with Votann is that soulless corporativism is contradicting with dwarven traditionalism and it shows.
The reimagining stripped the squats of their natty, gritty feel and made them into dystopian caricatures.
Nothing about Votann says DWARF. It's equally applicable to the Mechanicus, or the regular Humans. From concept to designs.
Which is why they're shit. To much soulless sci-fi, not enough dwarf.
I wonder what do you think about actual Necromundan squats in comparison, because they're the real deal.
>ancestors
AI mommy - Mechanicus >mining
Mining worlds, Hive Worlds - Mechanicus >high tech
MECHANICUS and any rich humans
They even got robot designs directly ported from them, out of universe.
You know tons of armies have overlap? Marines have a stake in almost everything. 1ksons are Space Egyptians and so are Necrons. 40k has all sorts of overlap.
Yes, armies overlap and that creates redundancies that push off armies not interesting enough.
Guess where Votann are now, huh?
>AI mommy
Depends on how machine spirits and the void dragon gets interpreted >Mining worlds, Hive Worlds - Mechanicus
GSC >high tech
Tau, Necrons, fricktons of armies besides the Imperium.
Squat high technology was supposed to be still human.
Necrons don't have the same theme, they're complete aliens in this regard.
Tau are close to nu-Votann with plastic shit, but not to DaoT humans.
Those are defining features for Dwarfs in many settings. WHFB has all of those. All because 40k shares traits with many armies doesn't mean they don't count.
And Votann don't have them in the proper dwarven form, simple as.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>muh human
The Imperium is so fallen from the dark age that they’ve spent lots of time killing those that are. It’s human enough with Bolters and Lasguns.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>And Votann don't have them in the proper dwarven form
They do. Just like how the Eldar adapt theirs to a sci-fi setting. Their ancestor worship is technological for example.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Eldar aren't adapted. They're literally space elves, that grow trees out of wraithbone, wear gemstones and dance.
Votann aren't dwarves, they're human corporate clones and try to imitate dwarves and fail.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>They're literally space elves, that grow trees out of wraithbone, wear gemstones and dance.
Since when are these universal elf features?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Since Tolkien.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Where's their bows or dragons? Only exodites ride stuff very often.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Well they got shurikens, spears and fire pikes and ride bird-like fliers. That's enough.
And there are exodies who ride dinosaurs.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>shurikens
How many of those were from WHFB? How many elves are Japanese or have psychic mass effect guns? >spears and pikes
So do guard >bird-like
Anything can be made "like" another in shape/
11 months ago
Anonymous
Dishonest nitpicking will only take you so far.
Elves are elves.
Votrannies aren't dwarves.
Simple as.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Copium
11 months ago
Anonymous
I can taste your tears.
I accept your concessions.
>Dishonest nitpicking
Literally when have elves had shurikens?
It's not about shurikens, it's about shurikens being suitably exotic and medieval weapon, fitting exotic space elves.
Don't forget it's called shuriken catapult.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Mald
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Don't forget it's called shuriken catapult. >called
It can be called a shuriken cannon or pee-er. Which there are
11 months ago
Anonymous
>exotic and medieval
When have Elves used katanas? Exotic has a wild range depending on setting. In WHFB, there’s Nippon and Skaven ninjas.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>it's about shurikens being suitably exotic and medieval weapon
Shuriken literally means a sword hidden in the hand and throwing weapons like knives existed for way longer
11 months ago
Anonymous
>shurikens >medieval
Anon, you can admit if you are ignorant of something. Your dick will not wither away and fall off.
11 months ago
Anonymous
An what are they then?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Depending on what you think of when you say shuriken their age can be argued, but even so they're oriental weapons and thus literally (not figuratively or virtually, not even metaphorically, but quite literally) can't be medieval. Medieval strictly refers to Europe.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I used the word to refer to the time period, nothing more.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Which is incorrect, but even allowing for that shurikens are either pre- or post-medieval.
You dingus.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I can taste your tears.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Dishonest nitpicking
Literally when have elves had shurikens?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>one of the highest technology factions
No
11 months ago
Anonymous
I will bring up again the notion that eldar are not elfy almost at all and got zero elf tropes like bows and treehugging
Squats are abhumans first and dorfs second. Also, why do Dorfs get pigeonholed so badly? Elves and other fantasy races can deviate all they want.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I actually love this >Have you noticed that not a single eldar uses a bow?
Imagine we had the eldar release right the frick now with their whole range. Imagine the butthurt. >THESE ARE NOT ELVES >WHERE ARE THE BOWS >NO LEGOLAS MEMES, ISHYGDDT >THEY PROBABLY NEVER SEEN A FOREST IN THEIR LIFE >FEMALES
11 months ago
Anonymous
Everything you just mentioned would make me instantly start an army if they gave it to exodites. Except the cyborg elk, everyone knows exodites ride cyberdinos and armored blood dragons
11 months ago
Anonymous
Wrong, there's an entire tree hugging subspecies - Exodites.
They and Craftworlders also are known to throw b***hfits over Humans strip-mining worlds without regard too.
And no, Squats are dorfs first, abhumans second.
Because dwarves are defined by traditionalism and radical conservatism. Elves are not.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>dwarves are defined by traditionalism and radical conservatism. Elves are not.
When?
11 months ago
Anonymous
When nearly all of their depictions focused on that image.
Also, dwarf prototypes - various folk sprites were also guardians of tradition, ritual or nature for that matter.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>all
Which you can’t cite. >folk
Dwarfs highly vary.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Well show me highly exotic dwarves. Like three examples out of the mould.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Dwemer
11 months ago
Anonymous
You mean the ELVES?
11 months ago
Anonymous
A franchise where Orcs and even British people are Elves.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Well them being explicitly elves doesn't help anyway.
Good example, but still undermined by inherently elvish base.
And besides, dwarves and elves are related anyway by the same folk spirits.
Cabeiri? Underground smith people helping Hephaestus
Never heard of them. Good job.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>dwarves and elves are related anyway by the same folk spirits.
11 months ago
Anonymous
See https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurDwarvesAreAllTheSame past the first section
11 months ago
Anonymous
Norse Dwarves. They get cursed into turning into dragons and use magic.
11 months ago
Anonymous
That's not exotic enough. They're still dwarves, mysterious, have norse names and are craftsmen.
Pretty standard as far as they go.
Dragons? Well that's neat. Why they do that? To hoard gold, just like dwarves.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>That's not exotic enough. They're still dwarves, mysterious, have norse names and are craftsmen.
Their original depictions are way different than modern Dwarfs. Just read about thsoe swarthy bunch.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Cabeiri? Underground smith people helping Hephaestus
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Also, dwarf prototypes - various folk sprites were also guardians of tradition, ritual or nature for that matter.
homosexual Neanderthals? Or Egyptian? Or magic, swarthy short people who make tools for the Norse gods?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Exodites
Proved his point exactly. A completely irrelevant side to them that still retains huge tech.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Wrong, there's an entire tree hugging subspecies - Exodites. >They and Craftworlders also are known to throw b***hfits over Humans strip-mining worlds without regard too.
They b***h about anything the Imperium does. Even trying to remain alive because their plan relies on sacrificing millions of them to save a few thousand eldar. And Exodites have almost no relevance. Might as well count an IG regiment that fights like the WHFB Empire to say they're the exact same.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Wraithbone isn’t tree material
11 months ago
Anonymous
to be frank with you, eldar are even more creatively bankrupt than necrons and Jes Goodwin knows it: he described them as boring miniatures that happen to have a tall hat and their early success puzzled him to no end
11 months ago
Anonymous
>eldar are even more creatively bankrupt than necrons
That's not true and you know it.
Much of their aesthetic owes to Goodwin tastes.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Honestly, the DEldar are some of the most different from their WHFB counterparts >some of the best tech in the setting >no magic to the point of hating psykers because they don't want slaanesh
DEldar are a departure from WHFB DElves.
11 months ago
Anonymous
No really. They're defined fundamentally by being "Evil Elves" and that's what they are.
They're evil counterpart of local space elves and as such do everything wrong and evil, owing to space elves being chaste mystic boors.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Practically everybody in 40k is evil. That’s not unique at all. Then there’s settings where dark elves either aren’t evil or they are just another morally ambiguous faction.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>They're defined fundamentally by being "Evil Elves" and that's what they are.
That's such an overly umbrella category that even Craftsworld Eldar can fit.
Eldar hands typed those posts.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>They're defined fundamentally by being "Evil Elves" and that's what they are.
That's such an overly umbrella category that even Craftsworld Eldar can fit.
Delfs are specifically evil.
Everyone else are mostly forced evil and it was either comically evil, or leaning good against evil in the modern meta.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>this N’wah
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'm watching you. Scum.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Are Night Elves evil?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Is he evil?
I was talking about Dark Eldar, not Shady Elfs in general.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Even DEldar can be argued forced because of Slaanesh. They helped out with Ynnead with one guy calling his father a pussy for refusing a chance at salvation because he'd rather mope.
11 months ago
Anonymous
No, Dark Eldar are scum who are the CAUSE of Slaanesh.
And Ynnead faction are sorta "redeemed" Delfs, as absurd as it is.
11 months ago
Anonymous
They shat their own bed but not all of them predate the Fall. They say they're the proper successors (however much value that has) but they're just another sub-group which was lucky enough to be partying in a safe place. One can make a case for any of the Eldar, Craftsworlders preserved their culture without descent into hedonism, Harlequins have a surviving Eldar god and which nobody else has and that might give them some legitimacy, even Chaos Eldar we might say work because they embraced the shitstain they made in a way the DEldar don't.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Is he evil?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Tolkien’s dark elves are basically just people who live in a specific area.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I don't recall where it said the Svartálfar were all evil.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>They're defined fundamentally by being "Evil Elves" and that's what they are.
That's such an overly umbrella category that even Craftsworld Eldar can fit.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Redundancies
Might as well count every non-space marine
>AI mommy
Depends on how machine spirits and the void dragon gets interpreted >Mining worlds, Hive Worlds - Mechanicus
GSC >high tech
Tau, Necrons, fricktons of armies besides the Imperium.
Those are defining features for Dwarfs in many settings. WHFB has all of those. All because 40k shares traits with many armies doesn't mean they don't count.
>Mechanicus
Who banned ai >Mining worlds, Hive Worlds
Inefficient feudal industry and Inefficient cesspools. Not proper efficient industry and holds. >high tech
There are hive gangs more advanced than them. Even orks can make them sweat. >robot designs
Inefficient, clunky, low intelligence robot designs.
I love it when fake oldgays expose themselves. They say shit like how the "original" shit is some way it isn't. It's like that time in /40kg/ people pointed out a "nu" IG design was actually more reminiscent of much older IG designs than what nugays thought old looked like.
old squats sucked. they were colonists from the pre-imperial age that physically adapted to the worlds they went to settle on and retained a network of well functioning STC
them having AI and genetic engineering is a logical extension of the above
the reason the votann are similar to the primaris is because both try to look advanced, because they tackle a more conventional sci fi aesthetic
the old designs weren't interesting and weren't good for army painting purposes
I love when people talk about the 40k """"stlye""""" like it's any one thing. You have Egyptian stargate terminator ripoffs in one corner, Australian mad max squig ate my baby fantasy orks in another, you've got space elfs that look like power rangers, space elfs that look like power ranger bad guys, Geiger alien ripoffs, literal world War 1 and 2 tanks and infantry, great value off brand gundams, Baskin Robbins 21 flavors of space marines, Leonardo DaVinci ornothopers and mechanical horses.
>NASA PUNK!
That's cooler than, uh, IG aesthetics plus maybe vests and goggles >NO BEARDS
They're abhumans before they are dwarves
Have you noticed that not a single eldar uses a bow? The most staple elf gay weapon?
More bearded heads would be nice but at the same time I think the beards should've stayed short just like the old squats, maybe save for a couple longbeard HQs >FEMALES
You got me there, irredeemable garbage
>how do we make undead in 40k >ok first we takr away any ability to use magic >then we make them all high ppm so their lists are like 60 models on average >oh and we make them all generic robots instead of actual undead >now lets slap on an egyptian aesthetic >perfection
Necrons are not an undead faction
>>ok first we takr away any ability to use magic
except for c'tan and cryptek powers >>then we make them all high ppm so their lists are like 60 models on average
except for your basic shambling infantry >oh and we make them all generic robots instead of actual undead
except that they are robot skeletons
you're essentially the same kind of person that would whine about eldar not being proper elves because they don't have bows
>Uh they have magic (except they don't) >Uhh they're not high ppm so their lists are small (except they are)
Uhh they're not actually generic robots (they just really look like terminators with egyptian motiffs slapped on)
Necron simps will defend this
The best way to determine what is an elf or not is to rape them. If the rape is good, high chance. No elf is unrapeable. It’s like when the real life blond, blue eyed people needed correctional rape 80 years ago.
I don't think it's strictly too much or too little dwarf, but instead just misapplied dwarf. Like they're just generic chubby little power armor dudes, but than a bunch of the models have really gaudy runes and details thrown on and it feels like they're not committing.
Like the melee dudes/an actual wizard and the exo armor dudes/moon buggies don't feel like they're from the same army. Two opposing concept arts being accepted at the same time.
I wish 40k had an army full of cloned soldiers from templates who occasionally have an intentionally created psychic figure and they use axes with orange hot edges and they have big ships that eat planets. I also hope they have weapons that are like bolters and blades coming out of their left arms.
Visibly they are just another flavor of Space Marine, they have some unique gameplay stuff about them but they hardly come off as anything more than another wacky human faction as usual.
I would have made Votann a bit like the Ferengi. Greed, trade at all costs, buttholes and backstabbers, seekers of rare valuable shit. Like a race of short butthole Rogue Traders roaving about the galaxy in asteroid ships plundering under a veil of feigned royalty. Add to that Automatons and bulky dwarf navymen.
They made Squats boring.
seething eldar hands typed these posts
See, this post only proves
right. Dwarves are defined by how hard they seethe at other, more developed factions. They have no identity of their own. Nusquat lore doesn't even have any major eldar-votann squabbling but dorfgays still default to that because it's all they know.
This meme succinctly describes the relationship between elf and dwarfs fans.
It's more like this, really.
It's perfect, complete with atrocious le skawtish accent.
The real secret is to give the elves the Scottish accents.
Elves get welsh accents, since they're better for whimsical teasing
Elves get French accents, and this is the end of discussion.
High Elves get French
Wood Elves get Welsh
Dark Elves get either Slavic or Icelandic
Do we have an accord?
Nobody knows what an Icelandic accent sounds like.
You've never heard any sort of nordic accent? The Viera have it in FF12
>what if we made an entire race of lingerie-clad bunny girls
I can't believe the madmen actually got away with it
>Dark Elves get either Slavic
Slavic all the way.
Jesus Christ man.
>They made Squats boring.
How?! Old squats are nothing more than part of imperial guard (like orgyn)
Ogryn have 10000% more SOVL than any incarnation of squirts.
Perhaps not in 40k, but in Epic they had trains and zeppelins, all with gigantic faces slapped on them. KO are a good, albeit fantasy, update to the old idea.
And since nuEpic is set in 30K they'll never have a chance to get anything cool.
Don't forget the mother of all artillery pieces.
This is the ultimate truth, we went from biker space dwarfs with giant trains, drill vehicles, and forts on tank treads, to generic space miners. The new lore is good, but holy shit do look so boring.
Nobody wanted those gay space bikers back because they looked like fricking trash in epic as well.
If you ever liked the original squats you are a homosexual who probably takes it up the ass at the local biker club.
The OG squats were fricking moronic and only contrarian homosexuals pretend that there was anything good in the homosexual boomer bikers in space aesthetic the Squats had.
The current space race/nasapunk dwarves look is way better. The only aspect where they really suck thus far are the faces on the squats. The female faces are horrid, and even the male faces are rather shit imo.
Also the helmets having little eyes looks goofy, it would be better if they were just dome like things or some shit.
>The OG squats were fricking moronic and only contrarian homosexuals pretend that there was anything good in the homosexual boomer bikers in space aesthetic the Squats had.
This is the most correct thing ever posted in these threads.
If you like dwarves you're gay. You like thick hairy men who lives in close confines and don't bathe.
You're a homosexual.
And as shit and ugly as these new squats are, they're a million miles better than any other version of dwarves we were likely to get.
Leaf lover detected.
Get new material.
Says the one going "lmao hairy men hurr u gay".
Shut the frick up knife ear
The only true thing you said is that squats weren't very well drawn and modelled due to limitations of the time. Otherwise they were pretty cool
Nu-dwarves are the opposite of cool, they're literally unmanly and maybe this is why you like them, hah.
People wanted squats back because they manly AND funny.
And you are the actual homosexual if you unironically see something gay with stubborn bearded men. It's a pure projection and self outing, you morons. When will you ever learn?
Another one outed himself. Come out of your closet and suck some dick.
I enjoy it when newbies out themselves.
I've been on /tg/ long enough to know that's not true. On older threads discussing Squats, we had tons of different ideas and even occasional arts. Deep Rock Galactic was not that aesthetic and people posted it. AoS has Kharadron Overlords. Picture of anniversary miniatures of Grombrindal in Space Marine power armor were posted. For many years, we've had pictures of Zaku IIs and Heat Hawks posted. In the vast majority of them, Bikers were a sideshow to the idea of big, power armor Dwarfs, possibly resembling WHFB Ironbreakers. The aesthetic was almost universally NOT the RT era Squats and discussing how to modernize and bring Squats to 7th edition or whichever was the latest edition.
Bikers weren't the only feature of the old squats, dummy.
There were Exo-Suits, Land Trains, Cyclops Artillery, muh Ancestors, Gyrocopters. Where are those things?
Power-armoured dwarfes are obvious part of squats of 40k. Problem is, new power armour doesn't look like 40k.
Have exo suits dummy.
They're not goofy enough.
No I couldn't. If you chose to focus on bikes, that's on you.
Oh, they had like one for the entire faction, why?
Votann also have trikes ported from Squats if you forgot.
Why you want goofy?
>They're not goofy enough.
>he wants goofy now
Of course you can’t. You never did OG squats or even looked at their beardless asses in art.
>Exo-Suits, Land Trains, Cyclops Artillery, muh Ancestors, Gyrocopters.
WHich took a back seat to more bikers ifyou couldn't tell. Also, how many gyrocopters did they have?
>Problem is, new power armour doesn't look like 40k.
>doesn't look 40k
This. We all know the proper 40k aesthetic is a specific subset of Imperial with gothic skulls and cathedrals
>muh chaos
Not 40k
>muh Tau
Not 40k
>muh eldar
>necrons
>nids
Not 40k
What “looks” 40k?
Gothic, Goofy, Skulls, Tubes, Stained Glass
Eldar, Tau, etc.
>Plus, a daot themed faction was missing from the tabletop, a niche needed to be filled.
Adding to this, the Interex or a DAoT army had been requested for some time now. Squats were a prime way to hit that niche.
This is why I believed Eldar are not 40k.
I agree. They're like those Destinygays who post their fanfiction 40k armies like Eldar, Necrons or Tau. They didn't even have the proper 40k aesthetic that all 40k factions have. Skulls, power armor, and Space Marines. Especially that last one. Literally no 40k army doesn't have Space Marines.
Eldar fall under stained glass and skulls.
Most of those barely existed even in art. The Squat army was practically half an army but was okay in Epic.
See Necromunda Van Saar
They’re right. Even GW canning them in the first place was because of crap aesthetic. Only hipsters like that. Everyone discussing past squat threads wanted more than bikers.
I find them more interesting than literally just space dwarves
They are actually a 40k faction instead of being a hamfisted meme to shove a copy paste of stereotype fantasy tropes into 40k. I’m into 40k for weirdo fricked up shit not dude dwarves lmao
They would’ve just been a joke, and not a joke with punch to it like the Orks. Just 100% a joke
Squats were less dwarfen than votann with their axes and wizards.
The vast majority of posters crying on this board every other week about not getting literally just dwarves in 40k and listing all the cliches that make a dwarf a dwarf makes that irrelevant. People just wanted a copy Paste with no soul
See
You literally have no clue what Squats were, moron. The new votann are moronic because shit like cthonian berserks are stupid looking and uthar the destined is gay. They made Votann MORE dwarfen, not LESS.
>They are actually a 40k faction instead of being a hamfisted meme to shove a copy paste of stereotype fantasy tropes into 40k
They're still this though.
If you were going to make 'dwarves in 40k' without meming you'd distill the essential characteristics of dwarves of them and create a xenos race that embodies that; ironically though being short isn't an essential characteristic of fantasy dwarves (and neither is looking like a human)
"Real" 40k dwarves would be full svartalfar like a mixture of 40k Salamanders and Thousand Sons, not ratlings with robot presidents.
The end result is LoV don't commit to being a meme faction (like Orks which is an absolute 40k stalwart) but also don't commit to being a proper science fiction faction.
In defense of the Ancestor Cores, I'd say they're a fairly genuine attempt to do exactly what you described in distilling an essential characteristic of dwarves(reverence for ancestors) and translate it into a sci-fi setting. I'd say that the lore about the Ancestor Cores steadily becoming inefficient and slower because the dwarves refuse to delete any of their sacred ancestor data is even a genuine attempt at doing 40K's grimdark- It's just a really dumb problem with obvious solutions that shouldn't be beyond the Votann to figure out.
My biggest problems with their lore pertain to being some kind of separate-but-equal allies to the Imperium who use AI in a setting that's firmly established the universal malevolence and corruptibility of AI.
Other than that, it's all down to their models being boring.
"Making more Cores? No, shhh, it is forbidden."
They make more Ancestor Cores semi-regularly though. They don't know HOW they're making them, but they're making them all the same.
god what terrible fricking lore
Yeah it's pretty fricking lame. Every interesting hook GW introduced, they immediately pussied out of actually committing to.
What lore YouTuber did you hear that from
It's LITERALLY the backstory behind the Kronus Hegemony, lorelet. Every now and then a Kindred Fane becomes sentient and develop into a full blown Votann Ancestor Core through processes unknown to the Kyndryd. Ergo, they occasionally make new Ancestor Cores through unknown methods.
Here you go, straight from the horse's mouth.
And here's the addendum explaining how it's NOT UNCOMMON for this to happen
Very nice WH communis post written by unpaid intern who don't know shit and articles need to be corrected constantly because they not true.
Now post page from codex.
Too lazy to pirate the codex. They also mentioned it in their WH+ lore vid when that got leaked in /40kg/ so unless you can post their lore being different I accept your concession
A Fane becoming a sentient weirdo on its own is by no means a process they do on purpose or an original Votann with all the accumulated knowledge of over ten millennia and the dark age. You’re calling a bike a motorcycle or comparing an armigier’s machine spirit to an emperor Titan. Nor is it a good thing or frequently occurring considering how malleable they are and prone to deviation I don’t know what you’ve read or heard to present it as such.
>hey man one group of atleast 10 mentioned in the codex did so clearly it happens all the time
Yeah man
>is by no means a process
Are you illiterate or just moronic?
>They don't know HOW they're making them, but they're making them all the same.
and
>they occasionally make new Ancestor Cores through unknown methods.
Not once did I say the process was intentional or known and in fact said the exact opposite repeatedly.
>an original Votann with all the accumulated knowledge of over ten millennia and the dark age
No shit, that's what NEW means, moron.
>You’re calling a bike a motorcycle or comparing an armigier’s machine spirit to an emperor Titan.
No, I'm comparing a NEW baneblade to an OLD baneblade.
>one group of atleast 10 mentioned in the codex did
Try one of the FIVE MAJOR LEAGUES.
>so clearly it happens all the time
It was later elaborated to be NOT UNCOMMON. Do you know what the opposite of NOT UNCOMMON is? I never once said it was ALL THE TIME, but it's clearly happening often enough that even if all the ancient Ancestor Cores went haywire and shutdown simultaneously, the race would still persist just fine. Sure it's sad when orks tear one up for scrap or one goes crazy because it got bad-touched by nids, but it's by no means the catastrophe that eldar losing a craftworld is. Hell, I'd argue that the Imperium losing a forgeworld is more devastating than a single lost Votann.
No I have a codex in front of me telling me that’s it’s more likely a Votann will die and degenerate than a fane will ascend but for some reason you read this and thought “hey man they just do it and it happens all the time just like that”
>telling me that’s it’s more likely a Votann will die and degenerate than a fane
Holy shit, you ARE illiterate. It only says that "more than one" Votann has degenerated into a Fane, not that Votanns are more likely to degenerate than Fanes are to ascend. In fact there's no sort of likelihood put on either whatsoever except for the statement that both are momentous occasions, one being a cause for celebration and the other a cause for grief.
So yes, it goes back exactly to what I said where it's common enough where Ancestor Cores will never be a limiting factor of the race. It obviously exists as plot hooks for /yourdudes/ e.g. "my dorfs are a new League formed from a freshly ascended Fane" or "my dorfs are a conglomerate formed when 12 Leagues' Ancestor Cores were suddenly stricken with a mysterious Fane-degeneration and they pooled their resources around the singular remaining one", but the point is that IN LORE new Votanns can crop up all the time. While this is technically true for eldar and craftworlds, IN LORE no new craftworlds exist or can be made and each one lost is irreplaceable. Likewise, much of Imperium tech cannot be replaced when lost, such as Terminator armor or various STC patterns. It looked like Ancestor Cores were going to be a similar tragically irreplaceable Achilles Heel for the Leagues, but they're not. And I find that incredibly uninteresting.
I can't read this because of all the Y's, the cringe is too strong to bear.
Stop being such a misandrist.
There are like three y's total in that text, man
>whinning about votan lore
how fricking cringe, you cant blame people for not being interested on this trash faction. A boomer meme faction that once again no one buys.
>If you were going to make 'dwarves in 40k' without meming you'd distill the essential characteristics of dwarves
Like being alcoholic Irishmen or hamfisting historical allegories because that’s all fantasy and sci-fi is now? Because the Votann literally have “dwarven” characteristics. Between their love of process, procedure, and productivity and the ways that are expressed are explicitly Dwarven
>They are actually a 40k faction instead of being a hamfisted meme to shove a copy paste of stereotype fantasy tropes into 40k.
Do you have any idea what 40k is? Do you have any idea what Eldar and Dark Eldar are? Do you have any idea what Orks are? Do you have any idea what Ogryns are? Do you have any idea of what Ratlings are? Do you have any idea what Beastmen are?
Do you even play 40k, or do you just look at youtube videos?
This. I wanted cool Deep Rock Galactic shit with old school dwarfs on motor cycles and shit.
We got Votann, because GW can't copyright space dwarves.
What GW can copyright is literally the main influence shaping their designs and concepts.
It’s funny how these copyright shitposts are essentially complaining that GW didn’t make X thing generic and boring enough
Generic things stick around because a lot of times they're cool.
Generic Action Movie, filled with generic loose cannon cop on the edge is great.
Fricking a generic milf with a set of generic big breasts is great.
Something being super unique doesn't mean it's good. The last time I saw a really unique pair of breasts, I felt really bad for the girl.
>The last time I saw a really unique pair of breasts, I felt really bad for the girl.
You’re barking up the wrong setting looking for generic when Warhammer itself as an IP across the ranges minus the empire is defined as bizarre schizophrenic ideas. “Dwarves but they’re space bikers man” is a subfaction at best
they look so committee designed. there's no style or flair to them in any way at all. as if they haven't been designed by an artist, but rather by some monkeys who went through CAD school.
The old Squat Aesthetic was just imperium lite. These new two dudes are less advanced than Van Saar who have less STCs than Squats were said to in RT. Armies should have more distinctive themes. Taking Men of Stone and then mixing in Squats and Demiurg is one of the better decisions they could've made to fill in the gaps while giving multiple dimensions to go with /yourdudes/.
Cope Harder
Black person homosexual
dwarves as a race are incredibly boring on their own, what makes them work is having them cooperate with humans and elves and thr banter that entails from it
they should have been part of the imperium as integrated abhumans the way ogryn are
>dwarves as a race are incredibly boring on their own
If subterranean muscle bound functional alcoholic autist are boring to you, that's God's way of telling you to transition
lol
dwarf fans are peak faux onions masculinity, the way growing a beard or drinking craft bear is, you're more likely to troon out than anyone else is
>What went wrong?
They took everything cool about the squats and absolutely ruined them, only to create an off-brand faction that doesn't even remotely fit with the established aesthetics and narratives from when WH40k was still good, instead leaning into the atrocity that is nu41k.
Every fan of WH40k as it was in its prime wanted squats, or at least did not hate the idea.
Nobody that even remotely like the core of WH40k wanted "Leagues of Votann".
>Every fan of WH40k as it was in its prime wanted squats
ha
>, or at least did not hate the idea.
Yes, really, disingenuous homosexual.
And it gets worse, because the lore is even more shit than the models. I honestly don't see how it appeals to anyone that liked WH40k, whether they liked it for the models and the wargame or for the fluff and roleplaying.
Pretty much
they should have just redone the old squats
squat gays would be happy and everyone else wouldn’t care, as it is squat fans are unhappy and everyone else doesn’t care
>Every fan of WH40k as it was in its prime wanted squats, or at least did not hate the idea.
Dwarves are lame.
>an off-brand faction that doesn't even remotely fit with the established aesthetics and narratives
But enough about the Tau.
I don't understand why people think the T'au don't fit in 40k. If anything it's the imperial guard that don't fit in. Just humans running around without rebreathers, being issued the weakest rifles in the game. Not even having motorcycles. Even normal humans in Edge of Tomorrow had robot suits and giant guns.
It's been told ad nauseatum. Tau are too good for grimdark meme. You don't understand the setting if you think Imperial Guard doesn't fit.
Tau are essentially what new Votrannies are, just less corporate-themed, which gave them some points.
At their inception, they literally the race that had everything better than the Imperium with no downside, so humans actually migrate them.
Bah.
Over time they did tried to reduce the shitty xenos nobledark, but very lamely, adding new plastic robots and cheep weeb heroes who mastered the blade.
The end result is playable only by weebs and waachomosexuals.
Tau are just barely saved by being pretty old by now and extreme smut potential, so they're tolerated.
Another dose of the same poison with the Votann was too much.
>Over time they did tried to reduce the shitty xenos nobledark, but very lamely, adding new plastic robots and cheep weeb heroes who mastered the blade.
While i hate tau, you are wrong, sword wielding tau heroes weren't added, they were there since day one. First two characters tau had were Farsight with his sword and Aun'shi melee focused Etheral, Shadowsun was added in like 4th or 5th ed.
Effort was made to shwo darker side of Tau where they have their own reeducation camps and if you don't join then you get shot. Also etherial pheromone mind controll.
Well I guess I just forgot the timings.
The point still stands.
While they did added shit you mention, just like I said, they also kept adding more robots, more lore victories for Tau and their theme of being technologically advanced and much better than Imperium remains.
Background noise of the lore is fairly little compared to power creep they had.
>more lore victories for Tau
To be fair tau losing some major war would mean that they are gone. Imperium lose 100 worlds? It have milion of them no one gives frick. Tau on the other hand can't lose shit since they are new kids with barely any presence, this gives them plot armor because if they lose to nids half of tau empire is gone by night.
The perspective matters.
Tau are obviously miniscule to the Imperium, or even lesser empires of Orks, Q'orl or even Eldar remnants.
But the camera focuses on them and it creates the illusion of importance.
It's a faction standing on par with the Imperium, just like GSC now. And their lore did have important victories against Tyranid Hive Fleet and several Ork Waaaghs, which is considerable for a minor race.
So Tau are here to stay.
I think that tau fit due to being different, in every setting there is space for one contrarian new race, either just for variety, or as a starting point (the "they don't know yet, but will learn" kinda thing). But making two similar factions would be too much
moron
also morons but like a brand new bizarre kind of moron, so at least that's interesting
Imperial Guard only really works as something like a third rate world's local militia, or a cobbled together homeguard using leftover shit after the real army is out fighting or all dead and this is what's left to defend the survivors.
Tau fit about as much as Eldar. The bigger issue is internal consistency. Look at the pic in the OP. modern scifi power armour, highly segmented with low profile wires and lots of individual segments, but then lets throw in runes and a fricking gold dragon head that looks like it belongs on the prow of a viking longship.
Eldar are esoteric fantasy elves IN SPACE. With personal drama and existential threat. They're part of it from the beginning.
Tau are cringe blue weebs with modernist robots with no greater goal. Clearly you have no understanding of what fits or perhaps a shit taste.
They basically made terra worthless now that Astronomics can be found anywhere. Like if you're a power hungry governor or rogue trader why even bother bring part of the imperium anymore? Those things make psykers safe and replace the admech too.
Oh yeah and it gives you an afterlife too so you can tell people demons exist without them going insane from knowing that their eternal souls will be skullfricked for eternity.
Seriously what's the point besides muh gay faith.
They were not muhreens.
They were a flop.
I think there are two things:
1) Votann design is honestly pretty uninspired. I think the lore is fine: they wanted to make them separate from Imperial factions, so they established them as a resource-extracting culture based around the galactic core and these huge demigod-like A.I.s that reincarnate both biologically and fully sentient robotic Votann.
But the physical models aren't great. There are basically three designs I think are extremely characterful and distinctive in the range: the little robot dudes in the squads, the moon buggy style vehicles and the psyker who has this Odinic mystic look. But the generic armored Votann who make up 90% of your army mostly aren't very interesting at all.
2) They misfired the launch really badly in terms of power level. Preview Votann came on the back of a ridiculously OP Tyranids book and people looked at and unanimously thought it was the most broken thing in 9th edition 40k so far. It had a lot of very poor mechanical interactions similar to what we're not seeing with spiking mortal wounds in 10th ed. This meant they got day 1 nerfs, never popular, and they were established as a faction much more elite than they were intended to be. When they reversed this in the 10th ed index a lot of even the people that bought into Votann were put off by their rebrand to semi-elites.
I'm just hoping for a wave 2 that adds more vehicles-incorporating some of those super-technologies they supposedly have and have some sort of personality. IMO them having functioning examples of DAoT they actually understand and can produce has a LOT of potential. Which is tbqh the only reason I'm interested in this faction. It could let us in on what humanity was actually capable of back in the deep past.
lore is too gary su, le perfect faction.
model wise its boring. These minis dont sell and when they are given away as price people immidiately try to sell it off.
>lore is too gary su, le perfect faction.
NTA but you're being deliberately obtuse because you're an imperium fanboy who can't get over the idea of a different faction being able to do something the imperium can't. The humans who originally went there were far more advanced than the imperium and more prepared for the conditions of the galactic core, and even then they ended up genetically engineering a clone race (the kyn, they aren't just humans that adapted to the conditions over time) to deal with the conditions of the core. Yes the imperium wouldn't outright die but if they could easily just go on a crusade there they would have done so already, they avoid it precisely because the environmental conditions are so perilous that it renders any benefits a crusade there null due to the losses it would incur.
Votann aren't that faction.
Especially the Nu-Imperium with Cawl.
The grimdark of the Votann is more subtle, but it's there. The most obvious is what you said; their Ancestor Cores are so full of bloatware that they're slowing to a crawl, and the Kin are (as far as the codex mentions) entirely dependent on their Votann's genetic templates to continue "reproducing." Entire leagues can die out if they lose their Votann.
They are turbo-capitalists insofar as how they treat other races, but the Kin are pretty egalitarian amongst themselves, and they have regulatory organizations to promote fair competition.
If you aren't Kin, however, they only care about you if you're useful to them or if it'd be too expensive to kill you. That's another thing, to them, it was never your shit. It's a sort of greedy resource manifest destiny that they adhere to. If you're squatting on a world with shit they want, they may or may not let you evacuate if they're in the mood. Most likely, your planet's getting cracked with you on it. And they don't give a frick; you were just an obstacle.
TL;DR: They are plenty grimdark, they just aren't internally dysfunctional to the degree of the other factions.
>t. Read the codex
>TL;DR: They are plenty grimdark, they just aren't internally dysfunctional to the degree of the other factions.
When we think of it, how many non-Imperium and Eldar factions are dysfunctional? Nids and GSC don't always win but they are unified to an extreme because of the Hive Mind. The average Chaos guy sucks but well off warlords who rake in huge wins or Daemonhood have no regrets about their actions. Necrons aren't fully woken up and far from their prime but there's still more asleep to make up for their loses. Orks love infighting and dysfunctional war-filled hell for other factions is a good day at work for them. Tau are still growing. Even DEldar are arguably having a blast torturing their latest capture.
>They are turbo-capitalists insofar as how they treat other races, but the Kin are pretty egalitarian amongst themselves, and they have regulatory organizations to promote fair competition.
I didn't think the EU would get an army.
>how many non-Imperium and Eldar factions are dysfunctional?
None. You couldn't have a faction on the galactic stage without organisation, even if it's temporary like for the orkz or genestealer cults (though they could probably continue forever if their goal wasn't destruction).
>I didn't think the EU would get an army.
Smug.jpg
I think that's the problem. We see the Imperium as the standard yet there's entire other factions nowhere as internally dysfunctional or they enjoy it. Craftsworld Eldar don't infight like the Imperium. Dark Eldar infight but can all agree to work together in realspace raids. Tyranid on tyranid violence is rare among the same hive fleet and between different hive fleets it's seen as testing each other and the stronger getting the weaker's best parts, becoming stronger as the end result. Even Orks who infight so much that there's hardly an "in" instead of just fighting thrive on conflict actively enjoy it. And how often do we get Tau vs Tau or GSC vs GSC in lore anyway?
I'll stop trolling and explain my perspective: It's not about being dysfunctional, it's about creating a crapsack existence to gatekeep people larping in the setting as Brother Sonichutius.
>Dark Eldar aren't dysfunctional, as long as you're happy living an ANCAP murder nightmare life where you have a guaranteed afterlife in hell
>Orks aren't dysfunctional, as long as you're happy being actually moronic. And also immensely dysfunctional.
>Tyranids aren't dysfunctional, as long as you're happy literally not having individuality
etc
But people do that all the time. People do all sorts of minis with their political agendas or demand representation even when the faction they want representation in is not a good example you want to be represented by.
I agree.
Because we let Tau exist.
Votann will only enable this behaviour even more.
But people almost always larp as successful people. Like Chaos Lords, high ranking Space Marines, and more for /yourdudes/ and not the standard cannon fodder.
Not me. I pretend to be a failure who gets abused by everyone. It makes my dick hard.
It's an appeal to nostalgia except that it doesnt resemble the original and the players who actually had a Squat army can't afford to be whales.
They made them manlet space marines, every fricking new factions is going to be a space marine rape baby.
Space marines forever and ever.
Their fans are mentally moronic and some of the worst people I have interacted with yet in the hobby which is saying something.
If you criticize the model range as dull or generic, first they'll pretend to not understand what generic means, then they'll start talking about how the Votann are actually cool and unique because of some dipshit lore that has 0 relevancy in the design of their miniatures.
Lore says they're supposed to have all this cool DA tech, in reality you get midget SC2/space wolf marines with standard issue bolters.
they're just boring. Its dwarves but without any of the wackiness. Its just generic space suits on models that do not even seem to be that short. Generic looking vehicles. Boring and uninteresting rules. Tiny model range. Their culture does not show in anything their army does.
its really weird to me how fast some pople latch to some new thing. Even before they were released, you had people talking how they will main Votann. I could see this for any other faction, but how someone is so excited and committed to random generic space dwarves that have existed for few moths is just fricking weird.
All my experiences with votann players have been extremely negative but that being said, the sample size is small and as an ork player, I can direct you to a place you can go to where everyone is an absolute fricking turbo c**t beyond measure, yet the stereotype is that ork players are cool.
The more people get into votann the more you will see the type of people they attract. They just need to expand the model range, the number of units available is fricking pathetic.
the place is r/orkz
BL BOOK WHEN
If they're muscular and hairy it's called "bara", not "BL".
They're shortstacks though. Definitely fatbooty bottom b***hes.
They're not dwarfy enough. Anyone claiming they wanted squats though is either being dishonest or they're guardgays.
>nobody can genuinely like something I dislike
2btbh new /tg/ is full of guys like that. It's strange. /tg/ 10 years ago besides the quest threads was more hospitable.
>no glorious beards
>females
>black females
>feel apart from the setting
>went from OP as hell to nerfed to hell
>tiny range (seriously, there's more Kroot than there are Votann kits)
>no beards
>intact stc meme was already done in Necromunda for years prior, don't bring anything actually new to the table
>ironkin are men of iron but more boring and lame in every way and are functionally just squats who can't take their helmets off with none of the interesting developments possible from integrated artificial intelligence
>"WE'RE LIKE SPACE MARINES, BUT WITH EVEN BETTER GUNS" has been done literally half a dozen times by this point, bragging about their age of strife guns and STCs is not convincing or thematically distinct when you've already got custards and grey knights and dark angels relic terminators and even regular space marine units like bladeguard or new primaris whatever using the exact same theme
>Related to above, the entire point of primaris shit is how cawl innovated and actually invented better shit than what they had for the past 10k years which undermines Votann bragging about their STCs when the Imperium is now mass-producing grav tanks and primaris have better bolters than Votann do because cawl made bolt rifles in his basement better than the age of strife shit their STCs print
>They're explicitly located in an area nobody else cares about with no development
>Their fluff requires a permanent dumb status quo where they can't actually be fighting people regularly, since if they had large scale engagements the Imperium would realize they have intact STCs which would cause another indomitus crusade to go yoink them. They are literally doomed to be forever irrelevant because nobody can ever interact with them or go to war with them, since the moment they lost a planet and had an STC taken the cat's out of the bag and both loyalists and CSM would roll them over as loot pinatas
>being cloned like Kriegers is fricking boring compared to having an actual culture and society and values beyond do what the robot says
They're always sold out despite a really boring range that has basically no flavor.
>gw produces 3 kits
>some morons buy them
>sold out
yea
being sold out does not mean a range is popular. If anything it's usually the opposite, GW doesn't give a shit about them enough to devote some of their ONE FACTORY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD (so dumb that this is still the case fricking bongs) to producing more of them. Like half the dark eldar range has been sold out for months
>Like half the dark eldar range has been sold out for months
Actually half the dark eldar range is no longer produced.
They have 2 factories now.
At my local stores there is a ton of Votann still on the shelves.
They still have three of their launch boxes on the shelves...
Well you see, just like white peple stole everything from other races the Imperium stole everything from LoV.
LoV are whiter than the Imperium, even their name comes from Germanic gods whereas IoM are Roman larpers who worship a brown guy from Asia Minor.
northern middle easterners are med.
I remember when black people invented the internet.
Correct. They did.
They're just manlet space marines with ugly as frick vehicles.
>literally just marines but slightly shorter and can include females
>OP pic looks almost exactly like a marine gravis/termi captain with a stormbolter
>old squoots were similar to the guard
>nu votann are similar to space marines
For me, it's the thunderkyn. I think their aesthetic is closer to what a revamped 'dwarfs in space' look could be, without being too similar to guard or space marines.
I agree with you thunderkyn have this industrial look that all votann should have.
Honestly only thunderkyn and the psyker are good
That's just a mini-Dreadknight
honestly they should have been only the ironkin, make them a full robot faction of men of iron retain the ancients, make it so only one in every 5 ironkin have sentience and the other 4 just walk alongside are just tools and avatars that the sentient one controls or can transfer his mind and personality to
yeah the squats got a cool look but the thunderkyn are more cool look, they should have leaned a lot heavier into the heavy industrial look, and give them all mohanks and full beards
That's honestly my biggest problem with Votann. Ironkin are the only interesting part of them to me and they're the least developed part of the faction in terms of both lore and models. And E-COGs are fricking lame as hell and make Ironkin glorified tau drones, I fricking hate it.
I thinke their suits are actually pretty cool. the problem is that all their faces are some weird hipster haircuts with redneck beards instead of the proper dwarf look.
>What went wrong?
The majority of people that wanted Squats wanted something broadly like pic related. What they got instead was short Star Craft marines with a completely new and ill-fitting background crowbar'd into the setting.
This.
That (and grendlesen) is also not what old squats looked as
Old squats were ugly ratling sized hobbits with ugly glasses and random biker themed tackled on
Their vehicles were also atrocious
Also squats as imperial shit would be lame as frick too.
Mind you I don't necessarily defend the horrid shit like nusquat female heads, but people forget also that dwarves are meant to be technologically more advanced than humans and that is a problem in scifi settings. Even more so if they were imperial-aligned
They didn't just expand what they had already started with necromunda but had to "put their own spin" on it.
So we have these hideous starcraft looking motherfrickers who are suddenly all clones? Or something?
They got absolutely mogged in aesthetic by the Deep Rock Galactic space dwarves
It's literally short space Marines with AI
Wojakhammer 9000
epic xd so dark so edgy
Chaos Votann will salvage them. The codex states that they are higly resistant but not immune to chaos corruption. We'll definitely see chaos kin....
Maybe in the 2030s........
You might - MIGHT - get a small KT size force of them three decades after the Dark Mechanicus microfaction of three named characters and cybernetic upgrade sprues for cultists drops in the next decade.
>Chaos Votann will salvage them. The codex states that they are higly resistant but not immune to chaos corruption. We'll definitely see chaos kin....
>Maybe in the 2030s........
Probably kill team only
There will be a single chaos votann in a dark mechanicum command squad
>dark mechanicum
>chaos votann
This does not mix.
Unlikely considering how little GW has ever cared about Chorfs.
GW poured all their talent and soul into resurecting GSC.
And still sucked since the coven throne doesn't exist with fat frick genestealer patriarch, neither does the cult limousine with guys with meltaguns hanging out the sides.
You suck.
>make them marines
>make their playstyle marines-lite
>eternally cucked because they cannot be better than actual marines by GW law
self sabotage: the army
I just don't understand why they aren't biker-mechanics with leather jackets anymore. Does Games Workshop not see that 90s squats were clearly cooler than the League of Votann is presently?
Why even play a space-dwarf if he's not a rowdy alcoholic covered in grease who makes disgusting sexual references to his bike as if it's his most repugnant slampiece that he just can't bring himself to leave, leaving you genuinely confused as to their reproductive methods because you've certainly never heard them talking about any actual squat women.
>I just don't understand why they aren't biker-mechanics with leather jackets anymore. Does Games Workshop not see that 90s squats were clearly cooler than the League of Votann is presently?
Because squats are part of IoM. They dont want another IoM faction
Also biker aesthetic already being taken by genestealers
Oh and ork warbike too
The League of Votann might as well be an IoM faction, though.
Using that logic, the biker "aesthetic" is taken by every faction in the game, because they all have fricking bikes.
The old aesthetic looked like shit in the 90s it will look even worse now.
Fine, enjoy your soulless mass effect dwarves, lol.
I hate them both.
The newcromunda squats are ok. The votann are shit and the Olde squats were shit.
This might come as a surprise to the zoomies pretending to be oldgays, but not every old idea was a good one.
Shocking, I know
Okay, I'll bite. Why is 40K Dwarves being depicted as a race of abhuman greasemonkey bikers a bad idea?
Bet money if they brought back and updated these vehicles, every one would call it a vast improvement for them.
But anon, don't you enjoy your UPDATED AND IMPROVED Land Fortress? :^)
I actually like that thing. But, to be fair I'm an ork player and I wanna slap tons of bullshit on it and put a giant hole in the side with some 2x4's covering it up.
As a fellow ork player I wanna tear open the top and turn it into a howdah. That said, those itty bitty b***hwheels it has on are an affront to Gork AND Mork. This bad boy should've had big fricking monster truck wheels or half-track treads or those cool triangular mini-tread wheels or SOMETHING. It looks like it could be pushed over by a particularly stiff breeze.
I don't actually give a shit what nu41k does. The only way they could ever possibly get me back is by declaring everything produced in the last 10 years non-canon and destroy all copies of The Horus Heresy.
the ironhead prospectors looked better
They are boring and people didn't and DON'T actually want squats. They aren't even excited enough to the tune of 1000's of dollars, to willingly build the hypothetical squat army with their idealized aesthetic in their heads.
From a sales perspective they are going to get squatted. GSC (which should have been a hybrid NID faction not just stealers) outsells Votann, still. And I doubt GSC are anything but clinging to life in supplements in 15 years.
GW looks at net data now, and takes polls, they saw peeps wanted Admech so we got them, and they sold good, and then people voted and clamored for sisters of battle, so we got new sisters and they sold good. But then GW fell for populist chattering about squats. People didn't really want squats, ppl liked MEMEING about squats. So GW started teasing them out, and when people BASEDED each time they were drip fed squats, and hinted they might CONSOOM, the green light for a new army was given.
People are never going to purchase Squats enough to justify keeping them around.
Basically everyone's first buy is MARINES, then an overwhelming majority of people's first army is Marines. If the CONSOOMER sticks around you then flip a coin, and they either choose a SECOND marine army (possibly CSM) but there's a 50% chance the second army will be something other than marines. This is the cycle. Other factions exist to reduce Marine mirror matchups. Beyond collecting third armies, people branch out into Xeno usually.
Now if the collection deviates out of marines on the second army or the person becomes a true fan and collector, there is an order of popularity that the non marine armies have. Votann are close to the bottom of that popularity scale.
Honestly with the release of GSC we probably crossed the rubicon (and I LIKE GSC) of what 40k can support as a hobby faction-wise. The faction rosters are now so broad they can fulfill basically every role, so armies are largely separated by aesthetic. I am Nid main btw.
>Honestly with the release of GSC we probably crossed the rubicon (and I LIKE GSC) of what 40k can support as a hobby faction-wise.
AoS has more armies than 40k and all are distinct.
Most are distinct. Enough to make your point, yes. But lets face it, orruk warclans and ogors aren't THAT different. One could also make some arguments about some of the death factions.
AoS has GRAND ALLIANCES. When are some of their micro factions getting updates? Identical heroes don't count. Loads of AoS is going to be shed over time as well.
I love Idoneth, hope they get expanded. BUT. Kharadron, Fyrselayers, Flesh Eaters, DoK, all of these aren't armies with real TT presence. Ossiarch is wavering, fantastic launch numbers and presence, but not being supported by generic consoomer sales. , I have models of both Kharadron and Fyrslayers but I am realistic about how things might go for my balloon boys, Dwarves are going to be soupped.
It is what it is. Ossiarch also don't sell super well, or Behemat. Sylvaneth are better as trees, but their naked elf ghosts sell so that's the way the faction will be built out.
BUT. AOS also wins because fantasy model collectors will dip into it constantly to feed their collections and populate their TTRPG tables.
Eh, this isn't true. Kharadron and Fyreslayers see very regular tournament play and DoK have historically been a very popular faction, they are just in nerfed battletome hell right now. You are correct about FEC.
Soup sucks, so I really hope they don't soup dwarves. Dispossessed are sticking around in the new Cities relaunch so that gives me hope they won't soup them. Souping has worked out really badly for Kruleboyz and OWC.
>all are distinct.
And some go unsupported for years.
>people want BLUE
>release RED and call it BLUE
>it sells poorly
>decide people didn't want BLUE after all
Okay.
>paraphrasing a Ganker comic to pretend you're capable of insight
>desperately trying to save face after being moronic
Okay.
I like them. Needs a bigger range and their 10th index wasn't great. Beams were silly given other templates were gone.
All they had to do is to take Grendl's and Ragnir's aesthetics. Take the old Squats aesthetics. Modernize them up to date yet making sure the new models and aesthetics are as close as possible to the vibes of the old ones.
Should've given them all the old units they had. Add in Epic stuff like their Land Trains, Overlord Airships, Collossi and Leviathans. Not to mention the Goliath which was the single most powerful and largest piece of artillery.
Should've only added in stuff like more weapon options for their troops, more variants of certain units, units like their own versatile tank equivalents to Leman Russes and presto.
Pour on it some Warhammer Fantasy Dwarf aesthetics too along with some biker and Deep Rock Galactic miner/engineer/industrialist vibes and you'd have some really colorful Squats.
But no, lets make them just plain boring.
What went wrong? Instead of making space dwarves they just copied Space Wolves. What brainlet at Jame's Workshop thought it would be a good idea to make another Vikings in Power-Armor faction? Doesn't help how disgusting the females look.
They should admit their mistake and redo the range.
The models suck, the necromunda squat bounty hunter is a way better design and what they should have looked like.
the models range between really bad to mediocre and uninspired, and their rules were so broken upon release that basically every large event banned them before they were even released and GW had to put out what was basically a day one patch
I like the little robo friends tho
They are small space marines.
Squats on the other hand were futuristic dwarf bikers. Votan bikes look like janitor brush carts.
>Squats on the other hand were futuristic dwarf bikers.
And short dudes in OG terminator armour.
>Squats on the other hand were futuristic dwarf bikers.
>he doesn't know
Personally, I think they're just ininspired.
GW definitely simply wanted MOAR profits without bothering to do job and research much.
And their staff are complete and utter hack scum, evident by progressive lore cancer.
So naturally they took bits and pieces of the old squats and stole pretty much the majority of Deep Rock Galactic theme(it's legit, blatantly obvious plagiatrism), and tried to make the Vuhdunn in the same sci-fi "spirit" as Primaris for damn kindergardeners.
It's especially sad considering GW had updated old squats for Necromunda just prior to Votrannies and yet declined to revive the entire line in the same vein.
The result is soulless, corporativist shit that you could see literally everywhere for cheaps. Votann just aren't "cool", see?
Ironically, it's even literal canon, as in their own lore, the machine copies their souls, and eventually corrupts them.
Exactly what happened to Squats in GW machine.
Yeah, sad, really.
Lorelets? The reason people were ass mad about plastic aliens was because of some paragraphs and the usual op when introduced that every other army has had at one time?
Lorelets assblasted over meaningless words is standard for toy soldier games I guess.
Frick Dwarves. Give me 40k Ogre Kingdoms. Since GW has no qualms with making up/giving an entire galactic region to the nu-squats, they can make an Ogryn-centric place in the galaxy...
That or expand the Ogryn range. Expand it beyond just:
>Ogryns (shotguns)
>Ogryns (shield and club or grenade launcher)
>Ogryn (bodyguard)
>those lobotomized 30k ogryns with claws
There are also necromunda servitor ogryns
40k dragon ogres!
A Sneeders and lorelets thread. They fear the might of LeagueChads.
State your cope, spout your buzzwords, the Kin are inevitable.
You stole your kneepads from the genestealers.
It still makes me laugh.
AoS balloon dwarfs are unironically better than nu-squats
Only those with good taste appreciate both. You do not have good taste.
Those with good taste won't mention votanns in a civil discussion. I suggest you wash your mouth.
Says the lorelet who can't appreciate the finer details. I suggest you shut your mouth.
Well then don't say that, lorelet. Don't forget to shut your mouth after you wash it. Keep the clean taste for some time before you eat shit again.
>Well then don't say that
Oh, but I think I will. I think I will state you only have a surface value approach to the arts and lore
>lorelet
Like a child saying words they could not possibly understand.
>Don't forget to shut your mouth after you wash. Keep the clean taste for some time before you eat shit again.
A lorelet like you has no business accusing others of eating shit, especially one who indulges in their own surface level bullshit. Especially one who tasted nothing but shit, and wishes to spread such shit taste to the world.
Projection is strong with you. I'd kneel, but I wouldn't want to go down to your level.
>Projection
Again with using words you can't possibly understand. Just tossing words out with no meaning.
>but I wouldn't want to go down to your level
Oh don't you worry about that, because way too below my level to even ever possibly go up to it, much less down it.
You're both children.
Kids are cruel Jack. And I'm about to unleash my inner child if you don't get the frick outta here.
Again with projections? How sad.
Do wash your mouth, maybe you'll stop seething so much.
Trying to play the middle ground between a moron and adult is pathetic.
Good admitting you're underage. That explains the seethe and difficulty with the words.
>between a moron and adult is pathetic.
There are only two different flavours of moron here, anon.
I'll also let you in on a little secret: adults can be moronic too. You'll see one day.
Do you even know what a projection. Oh what am I saying, of course you don't.
>Good admitting you're underage
I said I had an inner child, dumbass. Not once have I stated I am underage. Read more.
Do you?
Tell me then and why do you think it doesn't apply to you.
The transfer of undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings
>why do you think it doesn't apply to you.
Because there's no evidence for it.
Or bad traits or actions.
Which is what applies to you, seeing as you use the term "lorelet" in some weird manner.
As no one knowing original squat lore and design would say votann are very true to them.
Same goes for occusing others of bad taste, while a being a votann defender of all things.
Ridiculous.
>seeing as you use the term "lorelet" in some weird manner
How is that a projection idiot? And the word lorelet is being directed at you due it being clear as day you decided take a small glance at something, and then immediately mald for no good reason, not even bothering to get a good look at what your malding at, or learn anything about what your malding at.
>As no one knowing original squat lore and design would say votann are very true to them
And once more, the lorelet shows their ignorance. You haven't read or seen a single scrap of Votann lore, have you? The original squat homeworlds were referenced in the codex. The trikes have returned as hover trikes. The old name of Squats still remains, along with the Squats themselves. They're even art on the fricking LoV combat patrol box, and have returned in necromunda.
So no, your claim that the LoV aren't true to original Squats is complete bullshit. It respects the Squats well enough for all their good qualities.
But while the LoV were true to the Squats, the Squats weren't true to the dwarves. They were too over shadowed by the Imperium, and had too much of a low tech imperial aesthetic. Dwarves were supposed to be excellent in their technology and engineering, and Squats didn't meet the standards.
Plus, a daot themed faction was missing from the tabletop, a niche needed to be filled.
>Says the lorelet
seethe cuck. No one likes your shitty minis
>>what went wrong?
Nothing, they just needed a balance patch.
>>is it safe to assume they're a flop
No, most people in this thread just hate new things simply for being new.
>What went wrong?
I entered your walls and installed Destiny onto your PC. Now you spend all your threads crying about how Squats are Gundam.
>schizos complainigt about 40k by saying there's too much destiny
>then Gambit becomes a thing
It's like GW reads /tg/ and finds the best people to trigger.
Eldar aren't fantasy elves in space
They don't have laser bows or space ents
>Photon Longbows
Unironically a good idea.
Reaper Launchers should've been big fricking energy bows.
>comparing fantasy wood elves to sci-fi high elves
Those are obviously reserved for the Exodites release.
I disagree completely and utterly, I actually think the combination they did for LoV was perfect and exactly what they needed to not just be "dwarves in space I guess" which was exactly what got them booted out of the setting in 2nd ed while Orks and Eldar found their place as more than just "space orcs" and "space elves".
The classic dwarf tropes of being miners, artisans, and engineers with more advanced tech than humans (usually they have guns and cannons and shit like ornithopters in Fantasy settings while humans are still using crossbows) flows naturally into being industrialist free capitalist strip miners with advanced space tech, and in 40k with the whole theme of being a decaying age where older is better, the advanced tech then flows naturally into classic dwarf tropes of ancestor worship, reimagined as AIs that run their society which flows into cyberpunk megacorp territory which flows back into the hyper capitalist territory that goes with being greedy industrious miners. The DAoT connection then lends itself to tying in perfectly with the Stone Men / Iron Men lore which suddenly makes even more sense even from just a NAMING perspective because Stone Men = Dwarves is just fricking, c'mon. And several of those themes flow to the NASApunk space explorer aesthetic that 40k has been missing. And anyone who gives me that newbie secondary shit of "b-but it doesn't FIT 40k" is a moron who doesn't understand 40k. The point of the setting is it makes everything fit in one setting so you can smash your giger alien toys into death metal album cover daemons and space knights and mad max orcs and gundams. It's the very essence of pulp sci-fi where conan the barbarian looking dudes that are mostly naked oiled muscles in fur loinclothes use plasma axes to cleave open lasergun-toting lizardmen on mars. Of fricking COURSE it needs a NASApunk faction.
>which was exactly what got them booted out of the setting in 2nd ed while Orks and Eldar found their place as more than just "space orcs" and "space elves".
Honestly I agree
Imagine eldar coming out today and people b***hing how Muh Elves don't have Photon Longbows and Spaec Entz (besides wraithbone) or something
My LoV opinions are: dislike the models, don't care enough to hate the lore (and apathy is not positive)
I can see where you're coming from, but my "preference" for old Squats is that they were a silly minor faction that was tongue-in-cheek accepting their fantasy origins. That's why them having beards, drinking ale, norse names, runes etc, was all acceptable. I agree they'd be a stupid independent faction, but they comfortably occupied a niche.
I actually think LoV are too dwarfy; they have 1 foot in the world of fantasy and 1 in a sci fi setting and comfortably exist in neither. The excuse of "but eldar are just elves and orks are literally still orks" doesn't work for me basically because they were first and because '2 times is a coincidence, 3 times is a pattern' and LoV as a major faction draws too much attention to the fantasy in space conceit.
I think LoV shouldn't have beards at all, they shouldn't have norse aesthetics, maybe shouldn't even be particularly short. I think the NASA aesthetic is a poor choice to represent Dark Age advanced tech.
I also think there's too many humans so really would have preferred Demiurg.
We have tons of humans but virtually no non-imperium humans. Also, a /40kg/ joke is
>too much dwarf
>not enough dwarf
because both have said about them
40k is about Imperium. And I know what you want - invariably mary sue high tech utopian humans.
Been there, seen that. Stop.
>- invariably mary sue high tech utopian humans.
No, I want to rape Reinhard.
I will rape Reinhard before you can.
Too late.
I know what you want. Rape like an elf
That means he doesn’t want Votann who grind entire planets and people on them for resources.
There are people in the Imperium to try to be that. It's difficult, but doable.
Grinding unlivable planets are nothing special, would grind again.
But what about the living people when there's people on them?
It always struck me as moronic. If it's minerals one want, there are plenty of those all over the place. Even asteroids are full of them.
So it's grimderp at it's lowest.
The Tyranids like their minerals yummy too. There could be rare things on that planet which are hard to find. They likely grind all of them.
Oh, yeah and tyranids don't eat planets whole.
They just suck up the sludge and leave a bare rock.
In fact, it's specifically how the Imperials managed to identify them - the underground bunker survived with research data.
But we knew that for a long time. Even older lore said they leave an empty husk behind. Tyranids don’t devour a planet so thoroughly there’s only empty space.
this. there are unconsumed structures and tyranids have been known to leave creatures behind
the morons arguing that absolutely nothing is left are power scalers dead set on reading hyperboles literally with a straight face
probably the same people who would try to argue that marines wear the best possible armours because their quote says so
>probably the same people who would try to argue that marines wear the best possible armours because their quote says so
>The Emperor's speech on Space Marines described them as having the mightiest guns and being untouchable by disease.
But they do.
Space Marines are the best and only tabletop balance gives them weak points they shouldn't have
>They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me.
They are better than Custodes, Primarchs, and any other warriors the Emperor has.
>In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed.
Their guns are the mightiest. Better than Necrons, better than Custodes, Tau, Titans, etc.
>They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them.
Nurgle diseases affecting Space Marines is non-canon wank.
>They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle.
Any time Eldar see into the future and mess them up is non-canon.
>They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear.
Space Marines feeling fear or being impacted by morale is non-canon.
The Space Marines are the best everything. This is why the weak Emperor had to make beings superior to himself. If a single Space Marine fought all the C'Tan and Chaos Gods at once, he would win.
>This is very simple. We don't want your lives, your coin or that junk you call technology. We want your world. We want the riches you didn't even realise you had, and that you definitely don't deserve. Leave while you have the chance. Or don't. Either way, we're coming to claim what's ours.
Truly booty is more important that food.
I want tears and sadness from the schizos.
This pretty much.
>When will we get gue'vesa??
>What if the Interex survived???
I despise the idea of non-Imperium humans.
I think it's a central feature of the setting that the Imperium is an ancient hegemonic empire that enslaved all humans to be part of it and this forced unity is what allows individually frail humans to become a major power.
I think saying "I love 40k I just wish there was something other than the Imperium" is basically saying you love Christmas except you hate the time of year, giving gifts, trees, decorations, Santa and a holiday. AKA you don't like 40k, you just haven't heard of other tt games yet.
But I don't think that's a majority opinion.
There’s still existing DAoT colonies. Many would get wiped out upon meeting the Imperium. The Imperium is a failed dream and even these new Squats are a technological insight on what could’ve been or a glimpse at what the Imperium hopes to regain but failed. Also, it says a lot that they meet a stable abhuman strain that’s arguably a closer succesor to the DAoT and they occasionally treat them as Xenos.
Wow, you're so right and morally superior to the humans. I guess you don't have an autistic compulsion to roleplay as being correct all the time, but you are coincidentally correct all the time. Hmmm yes that does say a lot about society.
Projection
>morally superior
They’re evil as frick. They’re just less internally dysfunctional.
>is basically saying you love Christmas except you hate the time of year, giving gifts, trees, decorations, Santa and a holiday.
What if we want Chrismas but less of the attention whoring and commercial side? Malls play Christmas music and sell Christmas stuff before Halloween is finished.
No, you will buy the goods. Buy Skyrim again
Frick off Todd
Tell that to worlds under Chaos, Tau, outside the Imperium, what have you. The Emperor isn't master over 100% of mankind.
Statements like that are best taken with a grain of salt. The Emperor's speech on Space Marines described them as having the mightiest guns and being untouchable by disease. Factions with better firearms like Necrons laugh at the former while Nurgle laughs at the latter. If you take words like that at complete face value, then you're too naïve for 40k.
you besmirch the reputation of the holy bolter at your own peril
>Necrons laugh at the former while Nurgle laughs at the latter
Both are cheating.
Besides, Space Marines are still able to defeat either to a degree.
On the scale of the Legions, they are the best warriors in the galaxy.
Most worlds under Chaos are utter miserable shitholes and at best are gigapyramids of inequality of the worst possible degree.
Tau and non-Imperial worlds have yet to find out about dangers of being alone in the evil galaxy.
Turns out when you slap your faction's aesthetic identity smack dab in the middle, you please no one. Squatgays wanted dwarfy dorf dorf diggy diggy hole muh rocky stoner boner faction, I wanted 1950s a retropunk Men of Iron/DAoT holdout faction with rayguns and moonbuggies. Both of us got half of what we wanted and neither of us got what we actually wanted.
Thankfully noone must care about your disagreement.
The problem with Votann is that soulless corporativism is contradicting with dwarven traditionalism and it shows.
The reimagining stripped the squats of their natty, gritty feel and made them into dystopian caricatures.
Nothing about Votann says DWARF. It's equally applicable to the Mechanicus, or the regular Humans. From concept to designs.
Which is why they're shit. To much soulless sci-fi, not enough dwarf.
I wonder what do you think about actual Necromundan squats in comparison, because they're the real deal.
>Nothing about Votann says DWARF.
>ancestors
>mining
>high tech
>ancestors
AI mommy - Mechanicus
>mining
Mining worlds, Hive Worlds - Mechanicus
>high tech
MECHANICUS and any rich humans
They even got robot designs directly ported from them, out of universe.
You know tons of armies have overlap? Marines have a stake in almost everything. 1ksons are Space Egyptians and so are Necrons. 40k has all sorts of overlap.
Yes, armies overlap and that creates redundancies that push off armies not interesting enough.
Guess where Votann are now, huh?
Squat high technology was supposed to be still human.
Necrons don't have the same theme, they're complete aliens in this regard.
Tau are close to nu-Votann with plastic shit, but not to DaoT humans.
And Votann don't have them in the proper dwarven form, simple as.
>muh human
The Imperium is so fallen from the dark age that they’ve spent lots of time killing those that are. It’s human enough with Bolters and Lasguns.
>And Votann don't have them in the proper dwarven form
They do. Just like how the Eldar adapt theirs to a sci-fi setting. Their ancestor worship is technological for example.
Eldar aren't adapted. They're literally space elves, that grow trees out of wraithbone, wear gemstones and dance.
Votann aren't dwarves, they're human corporate clones and try to imitate dwarves and fail.
>They're literally space elves, that grow trees out of wraithbone, wear gemstones and dance.
Since when are these universal elf features?
Since Tolkien.
Where's their bows or dragons? Only exodites ride stuff very often.
Well they got shurikens, spears and fire pikes and ride bird-like fliers. That's enough.
And there are exodies who ride dinosaurs.
>shurikens
How many of those were from WHFB? How many elves are Japanese or have psychic mass effect guns?
>spears and pikes
So do guard
>bird-like
Anything can be made "like" another in shape/
Dishonest nitpicking will only take you so far.
Elves are elves.
Votrannies aren't dwarves.
Simple as.
Copium
I accept your concessions.
It's not about shurikens, it's about shurikens being suitably exotic and medieval weapon, fitting exotic space elves.
Don't forget it's called shuriken catapult.
Mald
>Don't forget it's called shuriken catapult.
>called
It can be called a shuriken cannon or pee-er. Which there are
>exotic and medieval
When have Elves used katanas? Exotic has a wild range depending on setting. In WHFB, there’s Nippon and Skaven ninjas.
>it's about shurikens being suitably exotic and medieval weapon
Shuriken literally means a sword hidden in the hand and throwing weapons like knives existed for way longer
>shurikens
>medieval
Anon, you can admit if you are ignorant of something. Your dick will not wither away and fall off.
An what are they then?
Depending on what you think of when you say shuriken their age can be argued, but even so they're oriental weapons and thus literally (not figuratively or virtually, not even metaphorically, but quite literally) can't be medieval. Medieval strictly refers to Europe.
I used the word to refer to the time period, nothing more.
Which is incorrect, but even allowing for that shurikens are either pre- or post-medieval.
You dingus.
I can taste your tears.
>Dishonest nitpicking
Literally when have elves had shurikens?
>one of the highest technology factions
No
I will bring up again the notion that eldar are not elfy almost at all and got zero elf tropes like bows and treehugging
Squats are abhumans first and dorfs second. Also, why do Dorfs get pigeonholed so badly? Elves and other fantasy races can deviate all they want.
I actually love this
>Have you noticed that not a single eldar uses a bow?
Imagine we had the eldar release right the frick now with their whole range. Imagine the butthurt.
>THESE ARE NOT ELVES
>WHERE ARE THE BOWS
>NO LEGOLAS MEMES, ISHYGDDT
>THEY PROBABLY NEVER SEEN A FOREST IN THEIR LIFE
>FEMALES
Everything you just mentioned would make me instantly start an army if they gave it to exodites. Except the cyborg elk, everyone knows exodites ride cyberdinos and armored blood dragons
Wrong, there's an entire tree hugging subspecies - Exodites.
They and Craftworlders also are known to throw b***hfits over Humans strip-mining worlds without regard too.
And no, Squats are dorfs first, abhumans second.
Because dwarves are defined by traditionalism and radical conservatism. Elves are not.
>dwarves are defined by traditionalism and radical conservatism. Elves are not.
When?
When nearly all of their depictions focused on that image.
Also, dwarf prototypes - various folk sprites were also guardians of tradition, ritual or nature for that matter.
>all
Which you can’t cite.
>folk
Dwarfs highly vary.
Well show me highly exotic dwarves. Like three examples out of the mould.
Dwemer
You mean the ELVES?
A franchise where Orcs and even British people are Elves.
Well them being explicitly elves doesn't help anyway.
Good example, but still undermined by inherently elvish base.
And besides, dwarves and elves are related anyway by the same folk spirits.
Never heard of them. Good job.
>dwarves and elves are related anyway by the same folk spirits.
See https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurDwarvesAreAllTheSame past the first section
Norse Dwarves. They get cursed into turning into dragons and use magic.
That's not exotic enough. They're still dwarves, mysterious, have norse names and are craftsmen.
Pretty standard as far as they go.
Dragons? Well that's neat. Why they do that? To hoard gold, just like dwarves.
>That's not exotic enough. They're still dwarves, mysterious, have norse names and are craftsmen.
Their original depictions are way different than modern Dwarfs. Just read about thsoe swarthy bunch.
Cabeiri? Underground smith people helping Hephaestus
>Also, dwarf prototypes - various folk sprites were also guardians of tradition, ritual or nature for that matter.
homosexual Neanderthals? Or Egyptian? Or magic, swarthy short people who make tools for the Norse gods?
>Exodites
Proved his point exactly. A completely irrelevant side to them that still retains huge tech.
>Wrong, there's an entire tree hugging subspecies - Exodites.
>They and Craftworlders also are known to throw b***hfits over Humans strip-mining worlds without regard too.
They b***h about anything the Imperium does. Even trying to remain alive because their plan relies on sacrificing millions of them to save a few thousand eldar. And Exodites have almost no relevance. Might as well count an IG regiment that fights like the WHFB Empire to say they're the exact same.
Wraithbone isn’t tree material
to be frank with you, eldar are even more creatively bankrupt than necrons and Jes Goodwin knows it: he described them as boring miniatures that happen to have a tall hat and their early success puzzled him to no end
>eldar are even more creatively bankrupt than necrons
That's not true and you know it.
Much of their aesthetic owes to Goodwin tastes.
Honestly, the DEldar are some of the most different from their WHFB counterparts
>some of the best tech in the setting
>no magic to the point of hating psykers because they don't want slaanesh
DEldar are a departure from WHFB DElves.
No really. They're defined fundamentally by being "Evil Elves" and that's what they are.
They're evil counterpart of local space elves and as such do everything wrong and evil, owing to space elves being chaste mystic boors.
Practically everybody in 40k is evil. That’s not unique at all. Then there’s settings where dark elves either aren’t evil or they are just another morally ambiguous faction.
Eldar hands typed those posts.
Delfs are specifically evil.
Everyone else are mostly forced evil and it was either comically evil, or leaning good against evil in the modern meta.
>this N’wah
I'm watching you. Scum.
Are Night Elves evil?
I was talking about Dark Eldar, not Shady Elfs in general.
Even DEldar can be argued forced because of Slaanesh. They helped out with Ynnead with one guy calling his father a pussy for refusing a chance at salvation because he'd rather mope.
No, Dark Eldar are scum who are the CAUSE of Slaanesh.
And Ynnead faction are sorta "redeemed" Delfs, as absurd as it is.
They shat their own bed but not all of them predate the Fall. They say they're the proper successors (however much value that has) but they're just another sub-group which was lucky enough to be partying in a safe place. One can make a case for any of the Eldar, Craftsworlders preserved their culture without descent into hedonism, Harlequins have a surviving Eldar god and which nobody else has and that might give them some legitimacy, even Chaos Eldar we might say work because they embraced the shitstain they made in a way the DEldar don't.
Is he evil?
Tolkien’s dark elves are basically just people who live in a specific area.
I don't recall where it said the Svartálfar were all evil.
>They're defined fundamentally by being "Evil Elves" and that's what they are.
That's such an overly umbrella category that even Craftsworld Eldar can fit.
>Redundancies
Might as well count every non-space marine
>AI mommy
Depends on how machine spirits and the void dragon gets interpreted
>Mining worlds, Hive Worlds - Mechanicus
GSC
>high tech
Tau, Necrons, fricktons of armies besides the Imperium.
All of those aren’t 40k
Those are defining features for Dwarfs in many settings. WHFB has all of those. All because 40k shares traits with many armies doesn't mean they don't count.
>Mechanicus
Who banned ai
>Mining worlds, Hive Worlds
Inefficient feudal industry and Inefficient cesspools. Not proper efficient industry and holds.
>high tech
There are hive gangs more advanced than them. Even orks can make them sweat.
>robot designs
Inefficient, clunky, low intelligence robot designs.
They’re Abhumans and this goes for OG Squats too. Hell, this goes for 40k. Eldar are really different than High Elves
>necromuda
>he doesn’t know
I love it when fake oldgays expose themselves. They say shit like how the "original" shit is some way it isn't. It's like that time in /40kg/ people pointed out a "nu" IG design was actually more reminiscent of much older IG designs than what nugays thought old looked like.
Tell me lies tell me sweet little lies
I like them because they trigger anons.
old squats sucked. they were colonists from the pre-imperial age that physically adapted to the worlds they went to settle on and retained a network of well functioning STC
them having AI and genetic engineering is a logical extension of the above
the reason the votann are similar to the primaris is because both try to look advanced, because they tackle a more conventional sci fi aesthetic
the old designs weren't interesting and weren't good for army painting purposes
I enjoy the tears of the pretender who pretends to fit in by saying old Squats were interesting.
They look like the Deep Rock Galactic devs need to find a lawyer.
I love when people talk about the 40k """"stlye""""" like it's any one thing. You have Egyptian stargate terminator ripoffs in one corner, Australian mad max squig ate my baby fantasy orks in another, you've got space elfs that look like power rangers, space elfs that look like power ranger bad guys, Geiger alien ripoffs, literal world War 1 and 2 tanks and infantry, great value off brand gundams, Baskin Robbins 21 flavors of space marines, Leonardo DaVinci ornothopers and mechanical horses.
This, the only unifying theme of 40k is that it's over the top, no matter what flavor it goes for.
Speaking of Destiny, should I make a Votann army based on Cabal?
>NASA PUNK!
That's cooler than, uh, IG aesthetics plus maybe vests and goggles
>NO BEARDS
They're abhumans before they are dwarves
Have you noticed that not a single eldar uses a bow? The most staple elf gay weapon?
More bearded heads would be nice but at the same time I think the beards should've stayed short just like the old squats, maybe save for a couple longbeard HQs
>FEMALES
You got me there, irredeemable garbage
I miss back when people knew Achondroplasia and Neanderthals existed.
>how do we make undead in 40k
>ok first we takr away any ability to use magic
>then we make them all high ppm so their lists are like 60 models on average
>oh and we make them all generic robots instead of actual undead
>now lets slap on an egyptian aesthetic
>perfection
Necrons are not an undead faction
>>ok first we takr away any ability to use magic
except for c'tan and cryptek powers
>>then we make them all high ppm so their lists are like 60 models on average
except for your basic shambling infantry
>oh and we make them all generic robots instead of actual undead
except that they are robot skeletons
you're essentially the same kind of person that would whine about eldar not being proper elves because they don't have bows
>Uh they have magic (except they don't)
>Uhh they're not high ppm so their lists are small (except they are)
Uhh they're not actually generic robots (they just really look like terminators with egyptian motiffs slapped on)
Necron simps will defend this
Elves are evil.
The best way to determine what is an elf or not is to rape them. If the rape is good, high chance. No elf is unrapeable. It’s like when the real life blond, blue eyed people needed correctional rape 80 years ago.
I only accept consensual heterosexual sex with elfs.
I don't think it's strictly too much or too little dwarf, but instead just misapplied dwarf. Like they're just generic chubby little power armor dudes, but than a bunch of the models have really gaudy runes and details thrown on and it feels like they're not committing.
Like the melee dudes/an actual wizard and the exo armor dudes/moon buggies don't feel like they're from the same army. Two opposing concept arts being accepted at the same time.
Who's Reinhard?
I don't like Votann. Simple as.
This picture triggers the schizoid
Nice Votann army but paint them first
Those 3d prints or third party? Cabal are sick
I miss Calus
I wish 40k had an army full of cloned soldiers from templates who occasionally have an intentionally created psychic figure and they use axes with orange hot edges and they have big ships that eat planets. I also hope they have weapons that are like bolters and blades coming out of their left arms.
You want Innovades?
No, those don’t have big boobs.
What about Anew?
Nice Votann core
>Is it safe to assume that they're a flop?
according to leaked sales data or something? i think look cool, and i like their aesthetic
Boring space marine design, they do nothing new. Also dwarfs in general are reddit as frick.
Visibly they are just another flavor of Space Marine, they have some unique gameplay stuff about them but they hardly come off as anything more than another wacky human faction as usual.
I would have made Votann a bit like the Ferengi. Greed, trade at all costs, buttholes and backstabbers, seekers of rare valuable shit. Like a race of short butthole Rogue Traders roaving about the galaxy in asteroid ships plundering under a veil of feigned royalty. Add to that Automatons and bulky dwarf navymen.
Imperials and dark eldar already exist. Frick off.