Rotation killed us.
No it wasn’t the balance and content neglect or juggling interns in and out of the team.
It
Was
Rotation
Doomshitting aside, what decks do you guys like to play and what region combinations are your favorite.
For me is weirdball stuff like targon/frelj (not rampshit) or frelj/ionia
The rotation news scared a bunch of people away.
I mean it’s already been confirmed for a while now.
But my post was more of a jab on the black/white thinking that rotation alone killed the game
I massively prefer best of 3, with a good deck setup absolutely every single match is winnable. Matchmaking has a much less significant effect in bo3, because you can't get dropped into a 20% wr matchup like you can on ranked ladder.
But I'll warn you, it's a real sweatfest. People pretty much only run high tier decks, so come with a counterpick or two for the meta stuff.
Also all of this only applies when gauntlet is Standard bo3, right now it's singleton bo1, a total meme format in which people are just fricking around building silly decks.
annie/jhin basically plays itself
i just browse the leaderboard and copy decks with regions and champs i enjoy, then modify from there
so many decks are viable right now that you don't have to force yourself to play stuff you dislike
up until platinum it felt like people didn't even try, so i assume literally bottom tier decks can climb there
I've just started playing Ranked. Crafted some basic Demacia/Illaoi decks along with Annie/Jhin and Deep. Are there any other decks you guys would recommend to climb from Silver IV?
I've just started playing Ranked. Crafted some basic Demacia/Illaoi decks along with Annie/Jhin and Deep. Are there any other decks you guys would recommend to climb from Silver IV?
Spider aggro is always decent and can be built with only foundations cards. It will be suboptimal until you unlock more cards, but functional regardless.
when the brackets reset at season end, where do you get placed from masters? plat?
also, does the amount of points influence placement, i.e. can i play down my points to receive a lower rating on reset?
>when the brackets reset at season end, where do you get placed from masters? plat?
Yes >also, does the amount of points influence placement, i.e. can i play down my points to receive a lower rating on reset?
No, you always go down 2 divisions, master players always start a new season at plat 4 regardless of their points.
that mono shurima renekton deck is so much fun
making him BIG and then surprise attacking a weak unit on the opponents turn unexpectedly for lethal feels criminal
they never see it coming
so I guess hes gonna be support for the "self-damaging" archetype? his current card deals damage to ally units for burn and hes depicted here with tahm's symbol.
elites is pretty manageable, they're only really bad when they highroll. ryze is a "win or lose" type of deck where your deck beats him or your deck doesn't.
>epic capsule upgraded to Champ capsule >finally get Leblanc
Very cool Riot, thank you. :*~~))
look, they even gave you the tactician for the OTK
>reach new milestone on ladder with a lot of luck >now stuck in a tier where everyone is a lot better than me and i can't complete the daily pvp wins
faaantastic
>Mana cheating >Bilgewater
Tho I wouldn't mind each region getting it's own coins, that would be funny >extremely out of place to be in Ionia
It's in Sett's package and actually makes sense with the whole invasion and cultural mixing plotline
Did you forget bilgewater has a whole slew of cards that say "plunder: i cost x less" or a unit that fricking discounts your whole deck by 2? It's silly to design a coin hoarding system and not put it in the pirates and gambling region
Game itself seems to be fine to me
Well, threads are dead, but that is no indication of how alive game is >this guy was probably onto something >i'm not saying the individual reasons he lists there explain it 1:1 for this game
So literally the only point you have is "a lot of games die in two year, so that make this gay correct"?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>a lot of games die in two year >expansions in this game are the most boring shit i've ever seen
one his points is that card games are too scared to try something wild and just reach for rotation as a substitute instead of a supporting tool to facilitate bonker ideas to experiment with
we've only seen a handful cards so far but i have a hunch it's gonna be more of the same as always
not that crazy ideas are gonna turn it around at this late stage, but it can't hurt either
1 year ago
Anonymous
but rotation is a way to possibly implement crazy ideas, the things about the rotation planned for this game is to rotate cards that either limit design space (twisted fate or ezreal for example) because trying to implement cool cards that synergize too much with them could be too much. alternatively rotation is also planning to take someone shit like vlad and experiment with an updated version of him.
Master bingwen seems to be the payoff for the coin gameplan, stack a bunch of coins, play him, play coin and duplicate an expensive unit. Seems like he'd be nuts if you can stack 9 coins and duplicate praa.
>Seems like he'd be nuts if you can stack 9 coins and duplicate praa.
Only need to stack 5+1 spell or 6 if no spell mana, only has to replace his own cost.
Now if you're talking 9 on the other hand, Bout Security 3 times -> coins -> 3 more times, you'd have 6 8/8's with quick attack on board.
Seems pretty good but Ionia is a weird region for it. If this kinda mechanic was in Demacia it'd be nuts, but Ionia doesn't tend to play on curve at all. All depends on Sett as usual
There was a poll a few months back on what followers should be turned into champs, it included Cithria and Chip (don't remember Jack tbh). I thought they were talking league champ, didn't think they'd be LoR champs so fast.
No idea, I tried to search for it but all I got were algorithm abusing sites.
Ok, a ton of searching and some luck later, the one I was thinking of was apparently not an official poll, it links back to some r*ddit shit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/qh4vo7/results_from_the_fun_notatall_serious_redditor/ >Name 1 follower you think should become a Champion. >pic
thats true but it basically would kill any combo they wanted to go for with minions while making the best mana they can refill 3 spell mana (assuming it isn't already full).
Interesting that coins cost 1 mana and refill 1 mana. So you need to hit at least 2 points of coin synergy before they do anything.
I have a feeling that unless there's a frickload of coin support beyond what's revealed today, it's not going to be run in its own package as a mana cheat and is instead just going to be spellcast synergy for champs like Fizz/Nami and Flow.
keg decks will probably take advantage of it, you can either use it to fuel the kegs or to refill mana to summon another marai when they tap out removing your first one.
>kegs in ionia
Not happening. Kegs need damage spells to point at nexus or else they'll never actually win. Ionia has nothing that activates kegs. Bilgewater alone doesn't have enough damage spells to self-sufficiently pay off kegs because despite damage-based spells being an explicit part of their region identity, they only have like 3 playable ones and almost never get new spells.
It's refund 2 if you have any coins > hold a candle to the new PnZ draw card?
Drum solo is absolutely disgusting and should be nerfed
Formula is more or less the same card (6 refund 3 as spell mana)
Yeah but generating coins is priced into every card that generates coins. You technically get 2 mana back, but you already paid for one of those points of mana somewhere else.
Feels like it probably generated 3 coins and then nerfed it pre-release.
3 coins would absolutely fricking broken
Literally every other card gives 1 coins, so I assume it gave you 1 coin too and then they buffed it
1 year ago
Anonymous
3 coins is effectively 2 mana refund, which would make it equivalent to Formula and fit the current pattern for how Riot has been designing draw. Drum Solo is 5 mana and gives you a 4 mana discount, but I didn't compare it to that because it's obvious that Drum Solo is cancer and the game absolutely doesn't need any more draw as overtuned as it.
1 year ago
Anonymous
You're overlooking the fact that the mana refund comes as an aditional spell in a region that has a lot of ways to benefit from playing spells, it's not as good as drum solo because drum solo is broken but it's in line with other draw cards.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That would literally makes it better than formula in every way(can be casted earlier, refunds actual mana on demand rather than spell on spot, coin can be used to trigger flow which is always good in like half of all Ionia decks)
Right now you could argue they are kinda the same outside of their intended decks
I still think they made it 4 cost 1 coin refund (literally in line with every coin generator) and changed later cause it felt bad outside of coin decks
Schizophrenic champion
Unflipped he's a mindless challenger beatdown like Vi with text that helps him 2 for 1
His flip has nothing to do with challenging, going to combat, trading board value or surviving combat and is instead just "PLAY ME WITH COINS PLEASE"
Then his flip doubles down on the whole "challenger beatdown" but also just has that extra bit crammed in there to say "PLEASE KEEP PLAYING ME WITH COINS"
Malphite ass champ. Coins are cool but this guy is fricking lame.
Fastest you can level him with no mana regaining is turn 9 (45 mana).
With 1 ramp that's 8 (46 mana)
With 2 ramp that's still 8.
Of course, we all know you're going to be playing him with coins and probably P&Z if you're going all in on him, so you can probably level him on 6-7 if you really try. But that's still pretty slow imo. Playing him with FTR might be interesting, he has a Tryndamere-like ability, but FTR is supposed to be game ending not value giving so I doubt it'd work.
Why PnZ I'm not seeing any real synergy besides Victor, but he doesn't really need any mana cheating, he has enough already
With just coins and his package I don't see him being leveled at 6, assuming it works the exactly same way as Lux and spell copying I can see it being with soul cleave
What the hell is this champ? >boxer catboy mama's boy with the mind of a child >mechanics revolve around money, champ spell is a stun, payoff is obliterate + AoE ping >in the region that doesn't do pings, AoE or obliterates
I get them trying to push like boxer = betting but this whole kit honestly just seems so weird and off-theme. Why is any of this ionian?
Yeah, show stopper should ahve just been a 0 mana dragon kick instead. It feels too weird in ionia even if champions are allowed to break the color pie.
>Sett's flipped art shows him facing Jack
Calling it now, Jack is going to be the other half of the coin package and the reason Sett's design is so weird is that they want him to work with kegs.
>ftr creates a showstopper >ice pillar into sett creates a showstopper >ice pillar into old timer recalls entire board with 0 coins
feel the minah is back baby
>ephemeral support for aggro Azir since they're rotating Irelia >predict support that's actually interesting for a change
I like it, honestly. Flashbomb peddler is going to get nerfed really quickly
I wouldn't say better, but they are definitely similar.
Zap tutors a spell, while this one Predicts. Zap has Attune, while this one just discounts the card you pick.
The good things about Zap is that you're reasonably guaranteed to get the thing you want since it's drawing from a pool you build your deck around controlling for, and the mana refund from attune can be spent at any time on any thing. Predict has a very good chance of just hitting 3 shit cards you don't want right now and then you're stuck with the discount wasted on one of them.
But yes, Shuriman Zap that hits predict synergy is nuts and going to become a mainstay in most Shurima decks. I wonder if this telegraphs them rotating Zap and the bilgewater attune package.
>rotate avarosan sentry >print SI sentry >rotate puffcap peddler >print flashbomb peddler >rotate zap sprayfin >print zap clockfin
I warned you fricks they would do this. They aren't rotating cards to narrow the pool or whatever the frick. They're just cutting good cards so they can release them again and pad expansions with little effort. This whole circus is just the LoR devteam coping with the fact that they have a fraction of the budget and manpower they had a year ago.
When will riot realize "draw x fleeting at the start of your turn" is not good? Bilgewater has so fricking many cards that do this and none of them are playable. They literally printed Barbed Chain last expansion as equipment support and nobody ever played it because it's fricking ass.
Inferna is the same shit. Expensive follower with shit stats in exchange for milling your own deck. Nobody wants this.
Pick a Card was TF's champ spell, and was only "good" in the sense that you would only ever have it on your hand with TF on the board and it just served to accelerate his level up by milling 2 topdecks.
In a vacuum Brash would feel strictly worse than Fearsome but I can see how it hits synergy with bilgewater pings and that can create some interesting situations since you don't necessarily have to kill a unit to effectively remove it as a blocker.
I would argue game has more 3/2 that 2/3s
Regardless, in vacuum if I have 2 3/1 and enemy has 4/5 he can trade that 4/5 with both fearsomes but only 1 of brash
The issue is more than units with 3 or more hp tend to be really good and every good deck tends to already run them. The overwhelming majority of strong decks will be running a 2/3 that also does good things on top of being a 2/3.
Fearsome is effective because 3/x is an aggressive statline and only aggressive decks want to run it, but the existence of fearsome aggro forces decks to play followers that don't gel with their gameplan just to have fearsome blockers. Whereas having lots of hp naturally makes units good blockers, and most units with control/combo value have defensive statlines so brash is adding value to blockers those decks would have already wanted to run. Brazen Buccaneer trades evenly into Aspiring Chronologist, which is not good.
What can make Brash good is that you can reduce hp outside of combat via AoE damage or pings to effectively remove blockers. There are very few ways to reduce power for Fearsome and even fewer that are readily accessible to the fearsome regions, but Bilgewater and Noxus both excel at pings and AoE damage so Brash can serve as additional payoff to playing to their region strengths.
It's on purpose.
This is just pirates 2.0, telegraphing that most of bilgewater's core aggro tools are getting rotated (probably along with mf/gp) so they're replacing them while making a concerted effort to make the deck more combo focused and less go wide smork.
If they rotate blackmarket merchant I'm quitting this fricking game
>activate an ally's plunder effect
Is this like, actually good with anything but Rex? Most Plunder effects at this point are in-hand discounts on intentionally overpriced spells (RIP monster harpoon) or really minor stat buffs that are only appealing when they're essentially activated for free. The only plunder effects I'd want to repeat after already putting them on the board are Rex and Blackmarket Merchant, but there's a 99% chance they just rotate every Nab card because it made someone asshurt 2+ years ago
I guess if this is Samira's package she is runeterran? Noxus Bilge doesn't work for her, unless they do shit like with Senna/Noc where they shoehorn champion into other region just for the theme
Shuriman - Noxian, but she has nothing to do with Bilge
>activate an ally's plunder effect
Is this like, actually good with anything but Rex? Most Plunder effects at this point are in-hand discounts on intentionally overpriced spells (RIP monster harpoon) or really minor stat buffs that are only appealing when they're essentially activated for free. The only plunder effects I'd want to repeat after already putting them on the board are Rex and Blackmarket Merchant, but there's a 99% chance they just rotate every Nab card because it made someone asshurt 2+ years ago
Citrus courier, smooth soloist, tuskraider, spiritwalker if not flipped yet
Regardless, it's just an option, plunder on a body if fine too
I don't see how she could be runeterran unless she can pull plunder cards which makes no sense.
Probably just going to be a maokai situation where your regions are pre-selected.
A Plunder origin would be dogshit because you'd have all of the payoff but none of the activators. It would be the same problem Jhin has, where he wants to play spell synergy but is stuck with only 1 region's spells.
What's interesting to me so far about Samira's followers is that they're far more combo-focused than previous Plunder cards have been. While she's obviously designed for Bilge/Nox pirate aggro 2.0, I could totally see pairing some of these with Freljord in a similar list to Sej/GP-assuming Samira herself holds up.
Probably?
The whole point of a keyword is to show what card does without writing a novel on a card
Imagine your card, but every keyword is fully written
I hope we don't see runeterra champions ever again
Why? Some of them are good, not everyone is just a pocket region like Jax or Eve
>dame the despoiler is noxus >barbed chain, a card featuring her weapon, is bilgewater
Why, at least make her multiregion if you're going to do this shit.
They do this shit constantly. They design a package for 1 region and then arbitrarily split its cards between regions later down the line with no consideration for theme. All this tells is is that this archetype is coming down pre-nerfed
Calling it now, they're going to rotate MF, Crackshot Corsair, the 1/1 elusive, Jagged Taskmaster, Hired Gun etc.
Samira is going to be a 3 or 4 mana backline champ that makes it easier to attack or trigger plunder and pushed with GP to literally just replaced rotated cards from Pirate aggro.
i'm a shitter so i might be over valuing this but also just combat reduces toughness
so outside of regen or heal, you can use a unit to block against brash once, but even if it doesn't die it can't block again
that's probably not great value, admittedly, but
It can make sense of the deck is building towards some like 8/8 Brash Double Attack unit that just wants to come down and end the game if you don't have a brash blocker left, but otherwise just slamming your units into blockers that don't die is throwing cards away and likely to just run you out of units.
Plus Noxus has flock, so the kind of situation where removing a blocker for Brash is better than just removing a blocker entirely is going to be really narrow unless there's a lot more Brash payoff coming tomorrow. Right now we have 1 Brash follower, tomorrow we're likely to get Samira (who will probably be Brash) and like 2 other new cards. Then it's variety day, Jack's followers and finally Jack. There isn't a whole lot of space left to release enough Brash cards for Brash aggro to be a thing.
pretty cool, seems pretty aggressive, but looks like it'd be kinda hard to play 12+ cards in an aggro deck or something while shes alive to get the rally.
>No fricking way GP isn't rotated
They wouldn't rotate a 5 drop to make room for a 2 drop.
My guess is that Noxus is losing Draven because they already nerfed him to replace him with Rumble. Samira's text essentially being the same as Draven's but with Warning Shots instead of Spinning Axes telegraphs it pretty hard.
As for Bilgewater, my bet is that MF is getting rotated, because Riot's been seething about Scouts for half a year, and because that opens up the low cost spot in Pirates curve for Samira. GP will probably survive because without him they might as well rotate sej, and because cutting him means there's almost no real plunder payoff left in the 4+ mana curve. Taking a healthy combo archetype that's been a mainstay since launch, rotating all of its payoff, giving it a dozen 1/2 drops and turning it into brainless aggro would just be moronic. Not even Riot is that stupid.
Prediction:
every region is losing the same number of champions EXCEPT for Bilgewater, Ionia and Noxus. Those regions are losing 1 extra champion to make room for this expansion, so that the totals will be roughly standard afterwards.
Draven was one of the most fair champions in the game as a 3/3 and then they nerfed him to a 3/2, in a transparently terrible and unpopular decision, entirely to create a space in the discard archetype for them to release Rumble into. Riot has been doing this 'nerf a card to print their replacement' shit for a while and it's obvious that Draven has already been sacrificed. Samira being Draven and Akshan's gay ship baby just drives home the fact that he's getting trashcanned.
Rumble was never meant to replace draven, what the hell ? Straight up deranged post
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'll break the timeline down for you anon >way, way back in the heydey of Tribeam (Draven/Ez) >riot releases an interview where they talked about carefully monitoring the health of tribeam and considered nerfing draven down to a 3/2, but when they tried it the nerf absolutely murdered his playability >resolved by saying they didn't want to nerf champions directly out of playability like that and would rather hit deck winrates in other ways. Additionally said that they liked Draven's current play pattern and would never want to nerf him out of play by making him die to mystic shot
Fast forward several expansions >Sion/Draven had been too good for a while, just recently got targeted nerfs to a few cards, including sion's stats >Draven still a 3/3 >when they nerfed sion, they referenced the old interview and maintained that they didn't feel nerfing draven was the right direction >winrates for discard aggro drops to comfortable levels, but it remains a good tourney deck because of matchups >suddenly >out of nowhere >"hi guys we're nerfing draven" >drop him to a 3/2, immediately provokes backlash >players remind riot of their own past words on the subject >some chucklefrick responds "yeah well that was then and this is now. The situation's changed" >2 weeks later >Rumble released
It was as obvious then as it is now. They reneged on their past words and nerfed Draven to make room for a new, competing discard champ in the same region.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Nothing to do with wanting to replace him and everything to do with them outright stating they had changed their mind on the "never nerfing out of viability issue" and thought that occasionally making a champion that has been evergreen since beta unplayable for a while was an acceptable way of switching things up. Exact same happened with Fiora.
Rumble cannot in any way be a replacement for Draven as they don't fill the same spot, let alone actually work in the same decks.
I am so glad the autobuild era is over, they clearly made her with bilgewater in mind but she is flexible enough to be able to play with other regions.
the autobuild era is not over. The flexible champs like Annie and Samira are all designed by Rubinzoo. We still get autobuild champs like Aatrox all the time because 90% of Riot's card designers are fricking awful at their jobs.
>2 mana 2/2 Quick Attack
Farewell, Draven. It was an honor. >plunder-based protection spell at 1 mana
Absolutely nuts. This is one of the best champ spells they've printed in ages
Oh, right, they put in one of tokens instead of proper card, lmao
>flair
I appreciate that it's an easily generated token and Samira will probably create 2 unless she gets Mystic Shot'd, but this is literally Warning Shot for 1 mana.
No fricking way GP isn't rotated
>Stylish Shot
Very cool. 1 Mana Warning Shot is a lot more appealing when it can infinitely regenerate itself. >plunder Badgerbear
Ehh. Part of what makes Jagged Butcher good is that a textless 2/2 is still an acceptable statline for a 1 drop, so it's a playable card even when you can't activate plunder. A 3 mana 1/4 is not a playable card, which means this guy is going to brick in your hand on 3 most of the time. >Elegant Edge
Fricking ridiculous. People will play this as a 1/2 just because it's a 1 drop with fearsome, but playing this as a 1 mana 3/2 is just crazy. Literally an Arachnoid Horror for 1 mana. >adroit artificier
Statwise, this is basically a 5 mana gloryseeker. Its text seems good but it's basically payoff for having a wide board of plunder units that gain stats from plunder (ie these new ones), so you can develop into your turn 5 swing. That's good when you have a big board and you're already doing well, but it's often going to be coming down against control decks and only activating 1 ally's plunder because your opponent hasn't been afk. Feels overpriced and understatted for an extremely feast-or-famine effect. I'd play Daring Demolisher but I wouldn't bother with this guy.
>but this is literally Warning Shot for 1 mana.
It's a generated plunder activator, it's probably more likely to be 1 mana challenger. The only other challenger givers are Entracing Lure and Sonic Wave (both of which cost 2 mana but also have a secondary ability). There's also Royal Decree but the main benefit there is the +2/2 for the round.
>no other brash cards
I guess brash is gonna be jack's thing. hope they don't make him some awkward fearsome-like archetype and have him be nocturne but in bilgewater.
Makes sense. The icon for Brash is a fist and Jack's supposed to be a former boxer now running a betting racket.
I have a strong feeling Jack's package is going to be more Nox/Bilge and be made to fit with Samira's package. Otherwise Samira decks are just going to look like Pirate Aggro with the noxus cards swapped for new ones.
SI + Noxus plunder featuring Adroit Artificer being spammed with its revive cards/soul cleave.
Pity it isn't BW because then you could do some moronic rex shenanigans. Currently only real options would be Dame and Dandy.
Artificier is not a good card. There are just too few 'hits' for it, as in far too few plunder units in Noxus that have plunder effects good enough to be worth recycling at 5+ mana. Artificier wants to come down on a boardful of plunder units so it can buff everything and essentially be a Noxus Cithria, but since most of these units have low hp and are very vulnerable to removal, that 'dream' is basically never going to happen unless you were already shitstomping your opponent. In this batch, the only card with a plunder effect good enough to reuse is Dandy, but unless you have multiple Dandys on the board there's no point in using Artificier over just using like Daring Demolisher with Fading Memories/Iterative. And even then, you're just getting +3 power per pop. Like it's not bad but you're not winning the game on the spot there, so why would you even build your deck around such a limp-wristed "combo"?
Artificier won't see play outside of maybe some kind of mindless monkey aggro deck with Jagged Butcher et al. but I expect Demolisher to enable a few interesting plunder combo variations by recycling cards like Black Market Merchant, Rex or even Smooth Soloist.
I mean this seems cute but it essentially hardcaps at 6 minus every unit you still have on board. Both plunder champs already require 5 to flip so that wasn't really a hard ask even before this new set. Powder Pandemonium is essentially a 4 mana decimate in most cases which I guess isn't bad at all with these new cards.
But really, how many fricking bilgewater cards can they afford to rotate? It's starting to feel like all we'll be left with is Deep and Tentacles.
Paddle is a card you can put in your deck
Sleepy Trouble Bubble, Zoe's champ spell, also generates a fleeting Paddle Star.
Paddle is 3 mana deal 5, so I guess they decided that rather than adjusting its cost, they'd just rotate it and reprint it with the buff.
Detain is also 5 mana capture, so once again they're just reprinting it instead of buffing it.
What's curious is that both Detain and Paddle Star are tellstone tokens. I wonder if they're going to leave them in the tellstones despite rotating the maindeck versions, or if they'll update the tellstones with new cards.
>demacia's 5 mana capture, but now 4 mana >"please play avalanche" >alpha wildclaw 2.0
>Bunch of reprints >Paddle star without Zoe
Oh boy
>SI Culling Strike >SI Reckoning >better broadback >Paddle Star
Not gonna lie this expansion is starting to reek of "we rotated a bunch of cards just to reprint them"
>Bunch of reprints >Paddle star without Zoe
Oh boy
Reprinting what we're assuming are replacements to rotating cards makes no sense. It makes some sense in a physical game but just adjust the card you dumb Black folk.
It makes sense when you realise riot is struggling to fill the release quota for expansions because of how LoR's budget has been slashed, and that simply remaking cards again takes less time and effort than coming up with new ones. This is basically shuffling your feet to make it look like you're busy when your boss checks on you. It's extremely soviet.
That makes no sense. The most expensive part of releasing new cards should be the art, level up animations, vfx and voice acting in multiple different languages. Game design should be mostly unaffected by budget cuts.
Art is ordered and produced in bulk by affordable 3rd party art studios (typically in korea). They could have years worth of backlogged art already that they're drawing from when they print new cards, hence why some, like Barbed Chain for example, have a very tenuos connection between what the art depicts (in this case a woman attacking with a weapon) and what the card does (draw 2). They just dig up unused artwork from their vault and arbitrarily apply card text to it to make a card--in this case just remaking Pick a Card.
Voice acting is indeed expensive, which is why cards on average now have 20% of the voice acting that Rising Tides did. The game used to have a truly staggering amount of unique lines and vocal interactions but now the average follower has only 1 or 2 lines total.
VFX isn't done by LoR's 'dev' team. They ping it off to the wider Riot VFX department where it falls into queue somewhere behind their other work. This is why releases will often come with blatantly absent vfx for cards that gets patched in months later.
The reason game design is impacted is because it's one of the only things done in house. LoR doesn't have its own art team; they outsource art to specialist studios. LoR doesn't have its own programming team, it sends its programming requests to a larger generalized Riot programming department that works on every Riot project. So on and so forth. LoR's team does 2 main things: product management (ie. how to monetize the game, how to market the game, what new things to release to maximize player engagement with the storefront, etc.) and gameplay design (ie. what cards do, what new modes do). These two were likely distinct departments on launch, but as budget dries up and the development gets restructured to operate with less payroll, they merge. "Design" is time-consuming and nebulous work that's nonetheless necessary, so any way you can trim it down allows a smaller team to do more with less.
I guess what you're saying makes sense. Though outsourcing certain work or relegating it to another department or whatever doesn't make it free. I don't know enough about the company to argue about it anyway so I'll take your word for it.
There's a 0% chance flock is getting rotated. The 'leaked list' is just redditors LARPing.
The actual rotation is going to be even more fricking stupid and the main reason riot is being hushhush about it is to try and conceal for as long as possible the fact that they're just clearing away cards so they can pad future expansions rereleasing them.
There are quite a few noxus champs ahead of swain in the list, but more than that he just got buffed recently and they wouldn't still be bothering to buff/rework champs they were going to send to the shadowrealm in a few months.
That's also how we know champs like Lucian and Garen are safe, despite having been forgotten shitters for years. Riot's been going around token-buffing all the old champs they don't plan to rotate to justify not rotating them.
Bilgewater seems kinda weird for this mana cheat effect. Besides rex what will you cheat out? Almost all of it's big cards are archetype specific like deep. Are you just gonna include dreadway or something for the double damage passive?
>what will you cheat out?
Nukkle, Mako and Bull, obviously.
Coins are an autobuild archetype like Lurk. You pick all the cards that generate a coin, grab a couple of the payoff cards and then slot in the two designated champs. All of the things you'd cheat out are built into the deck.
Because 1 coin costs 1 mana and refunds 1 mana, coins are unplayable unless you're running a critical mass of coin synergy to ensure you'll actually be stacking them enough to matter every game. None of the coin cards are going to be playable in random shitbrews or creative combinations. You just search 'coin' and slot in 3 of every card that shows up.
>Nukkle, Mako and Bull, obviously.
But they're shit, they don't even make sense as a coin finisher since they're aggro cards and coin will necessarily play slower in the early turns
you're talking out your ass
If the leaks are real then my favorite champion and his supporting cards are being rotated. Godrest my king. Without you I can't even call Freljord my favorite region.
1 year ago
Anonymous
riot would be legitimately moronic if they do that. including the other cards cards that would get rotated freljord would lose almost all of it's already small pool of good cards, and replace them all with alpha wildclaw that you can also play as a 2 mana 2/3 if you want.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Let's be real, how many champs can they realistically afford to rotate before they just send the game back into the stoneage?
We're probably looking at 2 champs per region, along with most or all of their 'package' with some exceptions, and then a smattering of base set cards, several of which have already been telegraphed by recent variety cards. I would be shocked if this amounted to as many as 30 cards per region total.
Just looking at Freljord for a second, we have:
Ashe
Braum
Anivia
Tryndamere
Sejuani
Trundle
Lissandra
Gnar
Udyr
And Ornn
What are the fricking odds Trundle gets cut over Braum, Anivia or Tryndamere? Espcially since we already know Lissandra, his intended partner, isn't getting cut. What universe ends with Trundle being rotated while fricking Braum stays? It's absurd to think of.
Just by looking down the list of champs you can pretty easily identify the 2-3 champs getting cut from all of the launch regions. It's only when you get to shit like Targon and beyond that it starts getting hard to guess, because these entire regions are a fricking mess.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I think he's likely for rotation because he has consistently been Freljord's best champ. Any big mana strategy supports him. Anytime a Freljord deck has been meta Trundle is most likely in it. The only real exceptions being Thralls, Plunder, and Overwhelm. If the purpose of the rotation is to shake up the region then removing Trundle would definitely do that.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Nowhere did they ever imply the goal of rotation was to "shake up" regions. They're removing failed concepts liie vlad and oppressive value engines like tf and zoe that warp the entire region around them.
1 year ago
Anonymous
riot would be legitimately moronic if they do that. including the other cards cards that would get rotated freljord would lose almost all of it's already small pool of good cards, and replace them all with alpha wildclaw that you can also play as a 2 mana 2/3 if you want.
Let's be real, how many champs can they realistically afford to rotate before they just send the game back into the stoneage?
We're probably looking at 2 champs per region, along with most or all of their 'package' with some exceptions, and then a smattering of base set cards, several of which have already been telegraphed by recent variety cards. I would be shocked if this amounted to as many as 30 cards per region total.
Just looking at Freljord for a second, we have:
Ashe
Braum
Anivia
Tryndamere
Sejuani
Trundle
Lissandra
Gnar
Udyr
And Ornn
What are the fricking odds Trundle gets cut over Braum, Anivia or Tryndamere? Espcially since we already know Lissandra, his intended partner, isn't getting cut. What universe ends with Trundle being rotated while fricking Braum stays? It's absurd to think of.
Just by looking down the list of champs you can pretty easily identify the 2-3 champs getting cut from all of the launch regions. It's only when you get to shit like Targon and beyond that it starts getting hard to guess, because these entire regions are a fricking mess.
I think he's likely for rotation because he has consistently been Freljord's best champ. Any big mana strategy supports him. Anytime a Freljord deck has been meta Trundle is most likely in it. The only real exceptions being Thralls, Plunder, and Overwhelm. If the purpose of the rotation is to shake up the region then removing Trundle would definitely do that.
Bilgewater has nami and fizz who benefit from mindlessly playing spells so they could make use of some of these. I can see people running fizz with barknuckles.
>Coin support
No real surprise there.
I feel like the weird thing seeing this package is that it's mostly coin payoff. In fact, the majority of coin cards we've seen so far feel like payoff rather than enablers. Between Bilge and Ionia we only have like 4 or 5 coin generators, but there are dozens of cards that in some way or another reward you for cheating mana. Which is weird because Sett himself is coin payoff, and by far the best coin payoff we've seen yet. Why would you need to run all of these other coin payoff cards when Sett's going to come down and basically win you the game from coin synergy himself? Feels like the archetype is currently top heavy
Pocket Picker looks fine. Obviously you won't play Coin cards outside of Coin synergy because you need 2 stacks for positive returns, but a 2/1 with last breath is a good chump blocker. >Babs
A 1/3 that doesn't do anything on summon and isn't a value engine is kind of bad. Technically its stats will grow down the line, but you're probably rarely going to want to play it on 2 just because 1/3 isn't blocking anything well. The upside to this I guess is that it basically turns your coin stack into a combat trick, but it feels too much like Wharf Rat in terms of being a growing 2 drop that will never really get big enough to pay off the tempo you lose early. >Barknuckles
This is probably the card that will singlehandedly carry the archetype. I can forsee Ionia running that 2 mana landmark that tutors equipment JUST for this. Stick it to a quick attack or elusive and it's going to be your main source of coins.
>12 mana
>Nukkle
Interesting that the main coin 2 drops are both elusives. This is probably just a flat out great follower. The fact that it's playable on 2 as a 2 drop, or playable on 6 as a split body without even running coin synergy is pretty good. I don't know how I feel about Bull himself, he just seems like a worse Citrus Courier (a card nobody was running already).
>Feels like the archetype is currently top heavy
Worst part is coins are a one and done, you're only getting one payoff per game unless there's some absurd generator coming down.
Yeah most of the coin payoffs seem to be in this weird spot where they want you to have 6-8 stacks on the associated turn so you can spend all of your mana, refill it, and spend it all again, but for the most part all the cards we've seen so far are like "spend 1 card, do 1 thing and get 1 coin"
The archetype as presented feels like it's going to rely excessively on a unit equipped with Barknuckles striking almost every turn to be your coin engine. Though it's also weird in that most of the coin cards are playing down in tempo, for turn 6/8 payoffs that feel designed like normal "I am winning on board" topenders rather than ways to reverse tempo or bypass a losing board.
Though now that we know Jack's followers are coin focused, there's a very real chance Jack himself will be a coin engine.
Presumably they'll have a blogpost detailing the exact list but they've been putting it off conspicuously. At this point we probably won't get it until the patchnotes drop, or the day of the release.
I guess it's because they don't really have to, new cards might get people excited but telling someone their favorite card is rotating out might not be great news.
didn't but got obliterates and that overwhelm guy with other celestials to stack him and managed to close it out
i didn't deserve it though, only won because that asol was a perfect top deck when he was my only out
Fearsomes are safe because it's one of those archetypes that the game 'must have' as a background threat that can rise to threaten greedy decks. Too much of the game's stat balance works on the idea that 3 power is important because of fearsomes. If you rotated the fearsome champs then fearsomes would just become a champless deck. If you rotated fearsomes like mistwraith, it would just throw the whole game out of whack and a lot of greedy decks would jump a solid 10% in winrates.
It's sort of like how some form of nox aggro that just vomits 1 drops and then points fervor face has been in the meta since launch. It's a super simple archetype that uses almost exclusively old cards, but it HAS to exist because going wide and aggressively burning down greedy decks is a necessarily counterbalance to decks that just want to ignore board and afk until their wincon.
If I had to guess, top candidates for rotation in SI are Elise (they've already telegraphed this by telling us a bunch of spider cards are being rotated) and Thresh. If you look at SI's champ curve, you'll notice they have literally nothing over the 6 mana point, because Thresh existing prevents them from printing expensive SI champs he can just cheat out. He's almost certainly the one on the chopping block.
speaking of which, your prediction seems to be on point witht that list. Your reasons make a lot of sense too
Fearsomes are safe because it's one of those archetypes that the game 'must have' as a background threat that can rise to threaten greedy decks. Too much of the game's stat balance works on the idea that 3 power is important because of fearsomes. If you rotated the fearsome champs then fearsomes would just become a champless deck. If you rotated fearsomes like mistwraith, it would just throw the whole game out of whack and a lot of greedy decks would jump a solid 10% in winrates.
It's sort of like how some form of nox aggro that just vomits 1 drops and then points fervor face has been in the meta since launch. It's a super simple archetype that uses almost exclusively old cards, but it HAS to exist because going wide and aggressively burning down greedy decks is a necessarily counterbalance to decks that just want to ignore board and afk until their wincon.
If I had to guess, top candidates for rotation in SI are Elise (they've already telegraphed this by telling us a bunch of spider cards are being rotated) and Thresh. If you look at SI's champ curve, you'll notice they have literally nothing over the 6 mana point, because Thresh existing prevents them from printing expensive SI champs he can just cheat out. He's almost certainly the one on the chopping block.
I'd say my final masterlist for 'likely rotation' before Riot reveals the actual list would look something like this: >Demacia
Pick 2 between Fiora, Lux and Quinn. Fiora's a serially problematic alt wincon whose existence limits how good Demacia's combat tricks are allowed to be, Lux breaks with her region identity and Quinn is just a relic of a form of "scouts" as an archetype that Riot's been deliberately shifting away from. Lucian, Shyv and Garen are safe because of recent buffs. >Freljord
Anivia and Braum. The latter because he's just kind of a failed concept stapled to a failed archetype. The former because she encroaches too much on SI identity by essentially being a death synergy champ with no actual connection to her home region. >Noxus
Katarina, because she's the perennial problem child. Vlad, for the same reasons as Braum. Longshot 3rd candidate: Draven, because Samira is too similar to him and riot doesn't like a region having two champs competing for a slot in the same decks. >Ionia
Lee Sin, because he's a problem child like Katarina. 2nd spot has a lot of candidates with Karma, Shen, Yasuo, Zed etc but my guess is Irelia because the new Azir cards they printed indicate they're trying to make a new deck for him away from Ionia. >PnZ
Heimer and Ez. Simply put, they're both win powerful win cons that strongly impact the kind of cards you can put in PnZ and who have basically shaped every meta PnZ deck since launch. Rotating Ez lets you have more targeting spells and targeted AoE, rotating Heimer lets you just have more good spells in PnZ in general, and the fact that they printed Formual is a dead giveaway that Heimer's saying goodbye. >Bilgewater
TF, as they've already told us. Bilgewater has the lowest number of champs, so it may just stop there. If they do rotate a 2nd, it'll be Tahm, 100%. He's an autobuild champ stuck to a dead archetype and one of his followers is being promoted to a champ.
>Targon
Zoe, as they've already told us. 2nd candidate is most likely Soraka, for the same reasons as Tahm. Her design can only possibly make sense when Star Spring is good, and Star Spring can only be good in a game without landmark removal. >Shurima
It's hard to say because the region itself is still so relatively new. Since all the Ascended Champs technically synergize, it's unlikely any one of them will be rotated individually. Zilean is receiving new predict support, so he's safe. Kai'sa, abomination that she is, is still way too new to get shitcanned. Rek'sai isn't getting rotated without rotating Pyke (which is unlikely just because Bilge has so few champs). This just leaves Akshan, Ziggs, Taliyah and Sivir as candidates. Akshan is a good bet because his design, like Fiora's, strongly limits the kind of cards they can put in Shurima, and because he's got an infinite they haven't fixed yet (big red flag that they'll just 'solve' the problem with rotation). As for a second candidate, I think Taliyah is safe because they printed explicit support for her with Rockbear Shephard so recently, so I guess Ziggs is probably the best choice there. >Bandle
Since almost every bandle champ is multi-region, I don't think it's likely they get any of them rotated specifically as bandle champs, plus Heimer and Ziggs being rotated would technically fulfill Bandles rotation quota too. I'd say there's a nonzero chance Poppy gets rotated just because she's been such a problem for the game but I wouldn't bet on it. Rather I think bandle is just going to have a bunch of its annoying non-champ cards (ie. Loping Telescope, Mayor) rotated.
considering shes decently stated and there aren't many brash cards she might still be good enough. brash is just a beter fearsome since you can low the health to keep things from blocking.
ah frick, I hoped angel would be playable but she seems pretty shit
then again I might be underestimating brash, it seems like it could actually be better than fearsome as an evasion mechanic
It's absolutely better than fearsome. Specially in Bilge, where you can drop aoe health with a random MIR or just ping your problem blockers. Angel is still trash though, maybe at 5/6
>unironically releasing a packfiller trash card in a miniset AND right before the first ever rotation AND it's wasted on a moneyprinting monsterwaifu card with a powerful sounding name
embarrassing
well, the brash stuff seems pretty interesting, since you can abuse prize fight to stop things from blocking them. the coin stuff is still weird though, like they should have went more all in on the brash then making him try and work win coins.
pretty cool that some of the cooler athm support cards like pablo are getting reprinted.
What about them? How many are you expecting to have? What are you expecting to do with them? Do you think it's worth the payoff?
Sett's the only real coin value I've seen so far.
>leak said eye of the dragon + homecoming + claw of the dragon was going >the only good card ionia is losing is deep med
literally why, this actually doesn't fix anything for them. and ryze will be just as good now.
>cut 50 cards per region >that's 500 or so cards cut >replace them with 47 new cards
Yeah, so many decks are fricked. I still stand by rotation being a gigantic mistake.
unfortunately i stopped playing when the beta ended and only came back now
1 year ago
Anonymous
damn you weren't kidding
well those decks have been bad for eons, removing them from standard is a mercy kill
hopefully they get reworked into something more exciting at some point
1 year ago
Anonymous
oh, shame
i thought i heard that spider aggro at least was still pretty functional and very low cost to get into
mistwraiths was always kind of a shitpost comp but i liked them anyway
1 year ago
Anonymous
mistwraiths was pretty good recently in the last patch. though all the elites and jayce/lux decks made it less playable since there were more decks with fearsome blockers.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>hopefully they get reworked into something more exciting at some point
They wont be.
but they pretty much got rid of everything else good in freljord that isn't control too. including spirits unleashed which was the only real reason to ever pick freljord over another region as a secondary region.
spirit's unleashed isn't a freljord card, it's a runeterran champion
you put it in your deck and forfeit your second region in exchange for it
there's no easy fix for freljord's situation, keeping these cards in doesn't give it any more of a real presence
starting fresh is probably the best idea
>The only Poppy cards still in are Yordle Squire, Yordle Captain, and Heroic Refrain >Yordle Squire became utterly useless without the "Grant all allies with equal or less power than me" units >Yordle Captain synergy has been drastically crippled >Heroic Refrain is Heroic Refrain
>leak said eye of the dragon + homecoming + claw of the dragon was going >the only good card ionia is losing is deep med
literally why, this actually doesn't fix anything for them. and ryze will be just as good now.
The frick are you guys reading? Those cards are all gone
Looks like they aimed to keep roughly 90 cards, give or take, in each region. Kind of interesting, on average each region lost between 30% and 50% of its cards, on average the game's cardpool went down by almost half.
>bone skewer rotated >pyke isn't
So he just doesn't have a champ spell anymore?
Also I find it funny how all allegiance cards are getting rotated except the shurima one.
Same thing is happening to Swain. I assume the spell will continue to exist as a champ spell but not as a maindeckable spell. Similar to how a lot of the cards created by Tellstones are getting rotated but Tellstones themselves aren't. I doubt they're changing champ spells for so many champs.
>rotate a ton of random shurima champs like xerath and zilean >but leave in ahkshan who has been limiting design space in the region since his release >leave in taliyah >get rid of a ton of landmark support
I'll give you a hint: none of rubin's champs got rotated. No matter how much many of them obviously deserved it, they were spared because of dev bias.
Taliyah follows the pattern of Sejuani and various other champs, where they had already rotated too many champs out of a region so rather than rotate them, they just ensure they will be completely unplayable.
There's definitely a sense that a small number of cards were selected deliberately or out of some kind of petty childlike vindictiveness, and then the rest were chosen almost entirely at random to fill a 'quota' of cards cut per region. If you asked riot directly I doubt they could account for even half of these cards.
Well I already know they rotated Zap to print PnZ Zap, they rotated Culling Strike to print SI Culling Strike, they rotated Paddle Star to print 2 mana Paddle Star, they rotated Precious Pet to print Plunder Pet, they rotated Pick a Card to print Barbed Chain, etc. etc.
So yeah, you're right. Rotation is going to make a whole lot more sense as we steadily see just how goddamn many cards riot cut just so they could rerelease them as pack filler later.
>trundle >avarosan sentry >blighted ravine >feel the rush >hearthblood mender >it that stares >troll chant >fricking spirits unleashed
freljord was already one of the worst regions in the game, and they got rid of pretty much all of it's good cards or any reason that you'd want to splash it as a region. literally all that remains is three sisters, she who wanders, and harsh winds. they even got rid of a bunch of shit like babbling bjerg and entreat so that if you actually wanted to play freljord you can't have decent cards that help you find your good cards from your other region.
>nerf all the strong decks that aren't getting hit too hard by rotation
okay that makes sense >nerf powder pandemonium after they rotate a ton of bilgewater plunder cards
great design riot
did you miss all the plunder cards being added
powder pandemonium is going to wreck ass this patch, a preventive nerf is a good idea
it's basically the new and improved decimate
In its current state Powder Pandemonium would essentially be a better Decimate in a Nox/Bilge aggro deck that's guaranteed to plunder 6 times by turn 6. 1 more mana doesn't hurt, considering this is just a burn card that is going to be played exclusively in a burn-aggro list.
Freljord is literally worthless now. It was already bad, but now they have absolutely nothing of value. Can't even play Forge cause they rotated the best Forge card.
thing is freljord was below average already so going there is basically just gonna result in mediocrity at best. the rotation gave it the best chance of being playable by bringing down the powerlevel of the game but they just got rid of all it's good cards anyway with almost nothing to replace them with.
explain something to me ex-/lorg/
how do we never have enough discussion to naturally sustain a general on /vg/ but when a patch hits this many people players come out of the woodworks?
is this game just always solved so quickly that no discussion can happen a week past new release?
We have no ritualposters/avatargays to keep a general in /vg/, that's the truth. All our discussion is related to the game while if you go to other generals it's usually around 30% the actual game 70% random shit maybe related to teh characters in the game.
All the people who want to frick LoR characters posts about it in /lolg/ instead.
Nearly nobody deckbuilds in this game, everyone just metadecks their shit. There's nothing to discuss when the meta is concrete.
This is helped by counterplay to something being either really intuitive or almost impossible for any given deck. There's just not much to talk about outside of spoiler season
the game demands too much brainpower to play every day. people see new cards and get hyped but then stop playing soon after. plus, ladder anxiety is a thing. it's like pic related - thinking about playing LoR vs. playing LoR
No, they confirmed that Eternal will get a competitive season later this year. Standard is the Standard competitive mode. They just promised to bring back Eternal for a meme tournament once in a blue moon to make the finality and inevitability of rotation feel less bad. They're probably going to do it once to fulfill the obligation and then never again. It's empty PR.
That makes things even worse, they're fricking up eternal on purpose.
However, in the serpent reasoning >With Rotation, Targon is losing access to most "Invoke low cost" tools in Standard. With that in mind, we still want The Serpent to be a consideration when you see it from an Invoke. >With a higher power ceiling in Eternal, it feels like the right time to restore some of Zoe & Co's former glory and put the DANGER back in the danger noodle.
They outright say want eternal to go full moron.
Pic related, all the crossed out ones are rotated (also Zoe, who's the main one), only two of the remainder (marked with N/A) can't make the serpent.
Fast atrocity too! Man it feels forever since we had that one, can't wait to play atrocity decks with champions I've never had the chance to like Jack or Sett. Maybe even Samira!
That isn't balancing, that's unbalancing. They were nerfed because they were strong for what they did, then they undid those nerfs with no reason other than "frick you for playing eternal".
all of those nerfs are completely outdated and reverting them does pretty much nothing
the only exception being atrocity but that nerf to slow was just an early rotation anyway
I'm sure there are dozens of cards left in the pool with "outdated nerfs", they weren't undone. It's almost like the nerfs weren't outdated and you're making excuses for a bad decision.
b***h they don't even balance standard when needed, what makes you think they're going to be balancing the format they created specifically so they could create things that don't combo with old cards?
>they don't even balance standard when needed
why lie?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Why are you pretending like we didn't live through months of no balance changes during some horrific formats? I even distinctly remember some decks getting slaps on the wrists then going right back to dominating.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'm not. Why are you pretending they don't balance the game?
1 year ago
Anonymous
I didn't say they never balance the game, that's your strawman. I said they don't balance it when needed, which you even admitted they don't.
1 year ago
Anonymous
nta, but yeah. If it bothers you so much why are you even still here?
1 year ago
Anonymous
where do you think you are, that someone would stop browsing the thread for a game just because they hate it
1 year ago
Anonymous
>waaaah stop saying bad things about [corporate entity], accountability is bad
You goy are something else
1 year ago
Anonymous
We've known they're shit at balancing since Azirelia fricking years ago. This is hardly a revelation anon, you're just treading water. Personally I just quit everytime the meta gets bad and come back for patches, if you're gonna whine and moan do it when it actually happens.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>we know they're shit at balancing >so surely eternal will be playable after any amount of time
1 year ago
Anonymous
Well the main game is playable for amounts of time so yeah.
Obviously Eternal is going to be fricked now and then, but there's zero indication they'll leave it to drown. Saying that the devs are shit at balancing is true but they get to it eventually. If you really think otherwise you'd have quit during Azirelia, or Poppy Ziggs, or Bandle tree, or Tribeam, or monoshurima, or Ryze, et cetera.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Obviously Eternal is going to be fricked now and then
More often than not.
Telling people to go to eternal if they don't like the outright moronic rotation choices despite knowing they aren't going to balance it for shit tells me you're just a homosexual who doesn't want to see people insult a multi billion dollar company for what are objectively bad design decisions.
Riot themselves have confirmed eternal is going to be a terrible format, just from the fact they created rotation to print cards they wouldn't have otherwise been able to due to balance problems. If you could balance them with patches then rotation would be unnecessary. And that's ignoring the fact that multiple weaker decks have been relegated there for no reason at all.
The only reasoning I've heard in favour of rotation, especially with how it was implemented here, is pure cope that doesn't stand up to even the slightest amount of scrutiny.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Lmao I never said any of that shit, I don't even like rotation either and would prefer live balance too. Literally said NTA my first post. You've just been spouting rhetoric about how the format will be unbalanced, when this game has actually never been balanced.
You're also making claims like they "aren't going to balance it for shit" when there's zero indication for that, they're going to patch it just as often as standard.
If the first patch comes out and accomplishes literally nothing come back and I'll moan about it with you bro, until then all indication is it'll just be the same as always, probably half a step forwards each patch.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Lmao I never said any of that shit, I don't even like rotation either and would prefer live balance too. Literally said NTA my first post.
You're defending the "just go to eternal bro" anon as if it's a valid argument. >You're also making claims like they "aren't going to balance it for shit" when there's zero indication for that, they're going to patch it just as often as standard.
Yes, I made very obvious conclusions. They also said they aren't going to patch it as often as standard (which isn't patched very often to begin with), and don't pretend like they can patch it at a certain point since the entire point of rotation was to give them design space that would make old cards far too powerful. What do they do if they make TF broken since he's no longer taken into consideration when printing new cards? Give him -2/-2? There's no way they're going to nerf standard cards for eternal.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I'm defending
That's not what I'm doing, reading comprehension. I'm saying Eternal will be playable, you're saying it won't ever be. I think you're being autistic about this, if you really hate rotation so much you can feel free to quit, I don't care if you play eternal or not. >what'll they do about tf
Make him need to draw more cards to level, buff other random shit, make him cost 5 or 6 or 7 mana, what are you even saying?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>That's not what I'm doing, reading comprehension.
Nah that's exactly what you're doing, you're saying "just quit then" as if that fixes the problem. >make him cost 5 or 6 or 7 mana
Ah yes, what a good solution.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Sure, whatever makes you feel better dude. You're saying incorrect things and I'm correcting you, there's no agenda. >what a good solution
Your point was there was no way to patch TF beyond removing him >don't pretend like they can patch it at a certain point
And it was blatantly wrong. Obviously my spitball solution isn't a good one, you've proven nothing
1 year ago
Anonymous
I didn't say there was an agenda, I said you were defending a moronic statement, which you're doing. >Your point was there was no way to patch TF beyond removing him
Yeah I suppose you can make problem cards cost 20 mana, that's just making a banlist which defeats the purpose of a rotation. The idea was balancing not killing, note how balance implies neither amazing or shit.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>ignores the two other suggestions, strawmans my argument
You're a cool dude. We have no reference on how good he will be. Making him a 5 mana 3/2 or 3/3 might be enough, making him need to draw 10 cards might be enough, you could even do both.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>You're a cool dude.
Oh you don't like the argument? Quit playing Ganker then. That was your response right?
Shitposting aside, I don't think +1 mana would do shit considering his play style, +2 or more would likely kill which is not a balance.
I also don't think adjusting the level up condition would do much, iirc he's already had it adjusted multiple times. >We have no reference on how good he will be
We know rotated cards are no longer being considered when they create new cards, that's all the reference you need. It's amazing that people have difficulty understanding things will not be balanced when they created rotation to make things that would otherwise unbalance the game (to the point where patches wouldn't be acceptable).
1 year ago
Anonymous
>you don't like the argument
Lol I see what you wanted to do, it's really not that clever. Just made you look moronic >+2 will likely kill which is not balance
Don't act like they haven't killed cards before. Nami, Poppy, bandle tree, azirelia were all executed, that's how it's gone for years.
If you want to make the argument that it'll happen more often you're right, but then that kind of thing would have to happen anyways if they wanted to print similar kinds of cards without rotation, so it's not much of a difference
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Lol I see what you wanted to do, it's really not that clever. Just made you look moronic
What, you don't think it's a good statement? That when something is bad you should leave? Why say it then? And why defend another guy who says it? >Don't act like they haven't killed cards before.
I never said they didn't, that doesn't make it a good thing. Balance patches should be balancing, the (impossible) goal of every game designer should be a perfect 50% win rate for everything. Balance patches shouldn't exist to kill cards. That's why they've given dominating decks slaps on the wrists a few too many times, they were trying not to kill it outright. >but then that kind of thing would have to happen anyways if they wanted to print similar kinds of cards without rotation
There would be more balance patches and the card would be taken into consideration when creating a new card, unlike rotated cards now. The new cards breaking old cards simply wouldn't be printed (or they'd be different in some major ways).
1 year ago
Anonymous
LMAO dude you are being autistic about this. Have you really never quit games before? You just keep playing things that make you seethe with rage? Pretending to be moronic to convince someone else to quit arguing with you just makes you look moronic and desperate, I'm not angry about you making stupid arguments. > The new cards breaking old cards simply wouldn't be printed
This is starting to get into just different opinions though. Some people want to play new shit and some people don't. Just a matter of preference ultimately. If the devs really wanted to make their new shit, would you be honestly happier if they didn't do rotation and just outright killed TF to print it? It'd be effectively the same outcome as if they rotated him and killed him in eternal. So there's no reason to give a shit, which is pretty much my opinion.
These devs print whatever the frick they want and it has always ended up with dead shit, no difference.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Have you really never quit games before
Of course I have, why do you think "just quit lol" is a valid argument?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Because the alternative is to keep playing something you don't want to play? What do you mean?
"I hate this fricking game, time to queue fifty games"
1 year ago
Anonymous
The alternative is riot doesn't make moronic decisions.
Why are you defending riot's ineptitude?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Oooh, shit, do you think I'm making some sort of point by saying to quit? I'm trying to give you advice on what to do with your life instead of seething, it's just what I would do. My points were pretty much everything else I said other than that. I'm not trying to say that their decision was good because you can quit, I'm saying if you're seething so hard about it you're better off quitting. >why are you defending riot
Read my other posts, you said incorrect things and I corrected them. That's all.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Oooh, shit, do you think I'm making some sort of point by saying to quit?
Why would I think you're making a point? You're just being a homosexual for the sake of it.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>why do you think "just quit lol" is a valid argument?
Well you asked that question, seems kind of blatant in retrospect
1 year ago
Anonymous
Go be a homosexual somewhere else then, people were discussing the update before you chimed in.
1 year ago
Anonymous
? So did you not ask that question or what? Also yeah, and you were wrong about a lot of stuff. That's why I chimed in.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>That's why I chimed in.
The first thing you said was >nta, but yeah. If it bothers you so much why are you even still here?
Just have a nice day.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Lol, I don't think you really got it but the main thing was the "yeah". This game is basically never balanced and rotation isn't really changing that for the worse, so yeah, if you're concerned about balance it's not the right game for you.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>they get to it eventually.
Slurp the goyslop. Do not ask questions. The company is your friend. They'll get to it eventually. If you don't like it, just quit chud. Do not criticise the corporate entity. The corporate entity is beyond reproach. You're just entitled for wanting a good product. Slurp the goyslop. The company is your friend.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I mean yeah it's objectively true though. What tier 0 deck is still around anon? Whenever it happens I quit and when i come back the deck is six feet under.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Because I've been playing a ryze meta for 4 fricking patches now.
Atro was pretty big for Viego, no? >Riot promises to nerf Hallowed to account for rotation >Literally nothing is touched >Foyer isn't nerfed into the ground >Quinn Gwen is going to rape ladder for entire month
I hate them so much
As someone who has 100k viego mastery, Atrocity rotating does not matter at all. By the time you have a big enough mist/Viego to atrocity it, you were winning the game anyways. Atrocity was always a win-more noobtrap in Viego decks.
Yes I had 3 Master Yi decks that performed just fine. >FTR with Karma >Glorious Evolution with Viktor >Go Hard
Without Eye of the dragon or good big mana cards to discount I have no fricking clue how to use him now. I think my only option is equipment to abuse momentous choice.
akshan yi will be vaguely playable, probably about as good as any of those 3.
and 1 mana coins are free flow procs so it's going to be a lot easier to hit (if only there were still any flow cards still in the game)
Alright found my Master Yi deck. Turns out stylish shot is an excellent flow trigger. And Samira's rally is very easy to pull off and extra deadly with a leveled Yi on board.
>all the champs they rotated were champions that were either too good (ezreal,irelia) or too shitty (zilean,elise) >basically all their attempt at balancing the game were worthless
>shitty (zilean,elise)
I wouldn't say Elise wasn't good, she just wasn't much of a champion. It was to the point where there's a solid argument not to level her.
>killed xerath/zilean and all of their support so I can't play landmark control anymore >xerath got removed from the game before they gave him a special effect for his triggers
A-at least I can still play Yhin or Jhannie control... right?
>plunder is a healthy and popular archetype that's had modest meta presence since launch as a midrange combo deck >largely uses cards that aren't played anywhere else >and constantly updated and changed itself over time, incorporating new cards and support >rotate its champ and half of its cards just to reprint the whole archetype as mindless aggro monkey burn to shill the new expansion
I'm upset
Where is Dragon support?
Where is Ahri support?
Where is Ashe and Leblanc support?
Where is Darius support card that resolves all of his problems?
Where is Diana support?
Where is Kalista and Nocturne support?
Where is Malphite support?
Where is Shen support?
Where is Tryndamere own archetype where he doesnt give the Troll king the succ for once?
What Zed will do without Lulu and Hecarim, his frens?
>new cards don't have voice lines either >Rubinzoo is now having to help work on path content
honestly how many years does this game have left before they pull the plug? Does it even have one more year left?
Games like this don't die a dramatic death, they just slowly bleed all their budget until they're struggling to make releases (like what's happening now) and then slowly circle the toilet for half a decade until their last whales finally quit. It's already "dead" in the ways that matter. We're in "dead mmo" maintenance mode now.
Actually in hindsight isn't it fricking wild that they can't afford VO anymore and yet just rotated hundreds of cards with tonnes of complete and varied voice lines? What a waste of budget and assets.
I absolutely believe it. There's no way they would actually rotate champions permanently when the entire reason some people even pick up this game is to play their favorite league character.
From another anon in the other thread. >Cards will rotate in and out every year
This is what they state but likely not what they will do. If cards were removed due to potential broken interactions or balance issues, why the frick would they ever add those cards back in?
Riot have already stated they will do periodic balance changes to Eternal but then also proceed to state it will only be when they can be bothered making a temporary competitive queue for the format which means the focus on Eternal is much, much less than Standard.
Eternal WILL become the dumping ground of cards Riot don't want to think about and will likely never want to think about again.
This.
If you look through the list of rotated cards, there are 4 key criteria for a card to be rotated: >1.
The card is a failed design and riot doesn't know how to make it good, or is afraid that buffing it will make it cancer. This includes shit like Vlad, Braum etc. This is the most obviously compelling reason to rotate cards and what most people probably assumed would be the sole driving factor >2.
The card or its mechanics are something riot straight up just doesn't want in the game, either because it creates problems or because players absolutely hated it. ie. Nab, Katarina, alt wincons, infinite combos etc. In this case, rotating cards is a substitute for nerfing them into unusability. They just want them out of the game because they're bad for the game. >3.
The card is good and healthy and sees a relatively high playrate, so we're going to delete it and reprint it later so we don't have to come up with as many cards next expansion, or delete it specifically to make room for a new card we intend to essentially replace it. This is the bullshit that makes people angry, because it's been so blatant. This includes cards like Culling Strike (now in SI) Zap Sprayfin (now in PnZ), Draven (replaced by Samira) and so on. >4.
"muh region pie." Basically cards that were rotated purely because Riot wants to limit what kinds of decks can exist within a certain region. Noxus, for example, lost all of its control tools, including extremely healthy ones like Flock and Whispered Words, because I guess Riot just doesn't want Noxus to be a control region. SI lost all of its pings because "it's not a ping region" etc. These choices range from questionable but arguably sensible (cutting Vile Feast from SI) to outright moronic (cutting every low cost invoke from Targon because "Targon should be weak early"). These are probably the choices that will be most harmful in the long run because it severely limits what kinds of decks can exist, and what region combos can exist.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'll also add that #4 was already an issue like 2 years ago, and was one of the major criticisms with the game and one that drove the push to release more diverse cards across the different regions, like releasing a draw source in Noxus to support its control archetype, giving PnZ ways to play board instead of just pointing removal at it and passing, etc. We've effectively regressed to the state of the game we were stuck in ages ago, where region design was too restrictive and created a frustrating lack of options for deckbuilding.
Like every region is now narrowed to roughly 90 cards apiece, which is about how many the core regions had during beta, before release and Rising Tides added like 30 more to most of them. But in truth we have even fewer playable cards now than we did then, because so much of the releases since then have been strict autobuild archetypes, and in their mindless pursuit of hitting a specific card quota they've left several archetypes stranded with half of their cards rotated and no substitutes available, leaving the remaining cards unplayable despite dodging rotation. What deck does Sejuani go in now that 2/3 of the cards from her deck were rotated? What's Tryndamere's home now that FTR is gone? How do you play Azir now that both Irelia AND Xerath are gone? What's Malphite's deck now that Targon and Shurima have almost no landmarks between them, and most of his own package is gone? Where do you play Nasus now that Kindred, Thresh and half of the game's slay synergy is gone?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>What's Malphite's deck now that Targon and Shurima have almost no landmarks between them
I'm genuinely surprised they didn't rotate the 5 cost stun landmark that copies itself.
If you think champs like Yasuo, Ezreal or Katarina are going to be permanently gone you're out of your mind. Especially when they've already printed skins for them.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Ezreal was broken by the play/cast merge and has been living on borrowed time ever since. Riot is more likely to reprint these champs with entirely different mechanics than un-rotate them.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That's true, they did say Eternal would be a testing ground for big card reworks. For those specific cards that's welcome I say, frick Ezreal.
They aren't just going to butcher their cashcows though, a lot of the rotated champs are far too big to be gone forever.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Bold of you to assume that LoR's dwindling playerbase is still here for the sake of LoL champions, many of which haven't been playable since launch. The folks who are unironically invested in Yasuo or Katarina fricked off a year ago. Most people left are either playing regardless of the game's connection to League, or in spite of it.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That's a take for sure. The fact that Caitlyn has the most skins in the game is due to her LoR popularity then? Yasuo having two despite being practically unplayable is because the LoR players really love his playstyle?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Ezreal will return when characters that can speedlevel him like Sera get rotated out. He isn't a problem on his own.
>the only card Deep lost was vile feast
What should replace it? Heavy Metal? Honestly it feels like it's going to be very hard to replace ping 1, heal 1 summon a token. Nothing else, especially nothing in the 2 mana slot is going to cover both lightweight removal AND a maokai trigger on 4.
A lot of decks are gonna struggle to replace vile feast. Especially now that they decided efficient pings like it and pokey stick aren't something they want around.
I get the impression that when the expansion actually launches later today, the meta is going to be dominated by cheesy midrange and aggro-combo bullshit. Make it Rain, Pirouette and Caustic are basically the only cost-effective deal-1s that are left in the game so most decks are just going to get run over by swarm lists with no good way to punish low hp statlines.
It's amazing that no one tested a coin vs coin deck.
1 year ago
Anonymous
It was tested tho, yesterday
It was "free QA" day
1 year ago
Anonymous
They had the exact same bug in the past with Darkness. Riot's just phoning this game in at this point. You watch, on launch today the bug won't be fixed and they'll just have a "known issues" message in the client.
Early access usually isn't a good indication of things to come, because everyone wants to play the new cards. You're not facing the same shit you'd face on live.
I do think Samira is transparently overtuned but it's also really easy for a 2/2 to good when nobody is playing mystic shot.
>xpac goes live >face samira/fixx autobuild 3 times in a row >they always have Samira and multiple copies of 1 mana sharpsight on 2 >they always flip Samira by 5 and then rally on 5
Unironically dead on arrival. Nobody's playing coins while this aggro monkey is as overtuned as she is.
Holy shit, yeah Samira is insane. You can't even reliably remove her because all out is just 1 mana to give her +2/+2. And it's so easy for her to rally.
does this mean the only way to contest anything is to build a more threatening board?
will she force the meta into having a beefy early board? midrange/demacia time?
No. She plays a mix of well-stated units she cheats mana/tempo on via plunder, and elusives that just swing over the board and kill you with rallies. I don't think playing a bigger board and matching her tempo is possible right now since her whole archetype cheats tempo, and they rotated every good midrange card to compete with her.
Samira's design makes sense in a world where prenerf Kayne/Aatrox exists but in her current form she feels like a yugioh deck while the rest of the game is playing pre-Rising Tides runeterra.
>Rotate a ton of cards to preserve region identity >But also decide to give noxus a new form of unit protection >It's also tied to their brand new super aggressive champion
Bravo riot
It's not subtle
They released 2 mana +2/2 and then nerfed it because it was too good
Then they released a 1 mana +2 or +2 and it instantly became the best combat trick ever released
Now they give us 1 mana +2/2 but put it in the region that's not supposed to have protection with their new super aggressive champion that wins the game if you don't kill them on 2.
It's not accidental. Riot knows how strong buffing hp is, and knows full well how good 1 mana +2 hp is, and knows damn well that this doesn't fit in noxus at all. They did it anyways because Samira is supposed to be broken and you're supposed to play her and talk about her and praise Rubin for designing her. I'd say "it's all business" but riot is obviously not making any money off this bullshit. It's all ego.
>Samira is supposed to be broken and you're supposed to play her and talk about her and praise Rubin for designing her
Lmao you might be onto something. She's the path freebie champion too.
Why is everyone saying the new cards don't have VO? All of them are constantly jabbering when I play. Hell, they bothered to give the champs voice lines with rotated cards just for Eternal.
I feel like it's the other way around. Elegant Edge doesn't, but every other card from this expac never stops talking to the point they clip into level animations.
probably because they might come back to standard at one point but also because filtering out the eternal cards would take too much effort and it would also break the game somehow
ladder is doompilling me
I thought rotation would mean tons of new innovative decks, but its just the same shit as always. Except now you can't play half the mechanics of each region and all the fun memey decks are gone.
>a lot of games die in two year >expansions in this game are the most boring shit i've ever seen
one his points is that card games are too scared to try something wild and just reach for rotation as a substitute instead of a supporting tool to facilitate bonker ideas to experiment with
we've only seen a handful cards so far but i have a hunch it's gonna be more of the same as always
not that crazy ideas are gonna turn it around at this late stage, but it can't hurt either
Well, it's pretty early to say, but it does seem there's some experimentation going on. Like Caitlyn of all champs looks to have a number of promising decks. Though really I just don't understand their thoughts process for this patch, Samira being very overturned aside most other decks doing well is pretty much everything good from last patch that happened to not lose much during rotation. Regions like freljord have been completely gutted, and shurima is now the akshan region because they rotated everything else good but decided to keep him for who knows what reason. Maybe it'll improve in a few days or after a hotfix for Samira, since all out really needs a quick nerf.
>Samira being very overtuned aside most other decks doing well is pretty much everything good from last patch that happened to not lose much during rotation >tfw too ESL to understand this
My bad, should have added some commas. I mean other than Samira/fizz, the decks that are doing well right now are just decks that were good before rotation. Specially ones that didn't have many of its cards rotated like Quinn Gwen.
I thought with a bunch of the usual aggro burn shit leaving that there'd be more room for new decks or old tier 3 decks to flourish, but the new elusive aggro stuff with Samira feels really oppressive. Mainly because of fricking All Out.
Aggro burn stays, old tier 3 decks were rotated because "they couldn't find a spot in LoR" (translation: we didn't even attempt to make them playable).
>"they couldn't find a spot in LoR" (translation: we didn't even attempt to make them playable).
ofc 10+40 new cards every 3 FRICKING months is NOT an acceptable release in today's TCG standards.
It should be at least 80 new core cards every 2 months + 30-60 new cards from set boosters(sometimes) + structure decks for some older champs with new cards to support them
This will help support pet and rouge deck players a lot
If you mean LoL tier of "changing everything every month" then no
1 year ago
Anonymous
I didn't say to change them every month, I said to adjust them so they aren't dead on arrival.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Old cards dont sell, "LoL Babby's first card game"
1 year ago
Anonymous
Cards don't need to sell, they give them away for free.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Cards don't need to sell
...and thats one of the main reasons this game failed
1 year ago
Anonymous
No, being f2p is one of the only reasons the game survived this long.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>being f2p is one of the only reasons the game survived this long.
ahah too bad they forgot how to make else where good.
btw this new pass sucks ass
1 year ago
Anonymous
>ahah too bad they forgot how to make else where good.
That has nothing to do with what you were b***hing about.
1 year ago
Anonymous
But the thing is: i want more and creative cards(that arent just copy and paste clones of rotated ones) and i refuse to take adjustments as "real content".
Riot should churn out more cards as content faster, and right now, LoR is shriveling up. I wouldnt be surprised if the same happened for upcoming LoL fighting game.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That also has nothing to do with what you were b***hing about.
1 year ago
Anonymous
idc i want some small adjustments+ new cards for my favourite champs
I mean, he gets this way everytime he starts to lose, I watched him last patch quit after losing to trundle/liss and anivia and complain about how they deserve to be nerfed.
oh did he really? i remember him being a lot more positive when the game was fresh but after his year of absencehe seemed kinda broken and easily frustrated in general
maybe it's better he quits for good
>jack sucks
well thats a disappointment, he looked a lot more fun than samira or sett. maybe if he had better support cards he might have had an actual decent deck.
Jack's an honest midrange beatdown card in a degenerate yugioh combo meta. He would be good if the game was sane right now but we're back in beta bullshit where all the strongest decks just kill you out of hand at burst speed on turn x and there's no way to interact with them.
https://twitter.com/PlayRuneterra/status/1641651533485072385
they're gonna explain on the 4th their reasons for the specifics on what did and did not rotate.
better have some good reasons.
>if you aren't facing samira/fizz's constant aggro onslaught where they never seem to run out of cards >then you just face sett karma who stall until 10 mana where they play 30 mana worth of stuff and generate a whole bunch of value while obliterating your board >or you just face a deck from last patch that didn't even lose any cards from rotation
they seriously fricked up this patch, it's like more of the same but worse and now I can't play any of them off-meta decks from before because they rotated a whole bunch of shit out.
They bit off more than they could chew with the game's quality. Like the portraits for units are unironically really high quality. Like rather than just being a small little profile shot or something, it's a full widescreen splash with multiple characters and detailed action in the background. That shit isn't cheap. And now that the budget's slipped we're at the point where they can only afford 30 or so new cards every 3 months and can't even afford voicing for half of them. There's really no getting around that this started as a prestige project riot was prepared to throw money at, and once that embarrassing pedophile turned prestige to shame now they just have no recourse but to slowly strangle their expensive game one budget cut at a time.
i still think that they view the game as a concept art playground to springboard ideas into their mmorpg, so LoR just gets the scraps of what needs to be done anyway and the available budget is used to add the finishing touches to make it cohesive
rate my headcanon / cope
>xerath/zilean can control and hold off aggro decently enough with proper hexmine field usage >can remove low level threats through protection with time bombs >delete the entire deck and all of its cards despite it being a tier 3 deck that required big brain and good draws to do its game plan
So fricking fun. Fricking stupid Black folk. They can't fricking do anything right and instead of trying to address issues they just delete them. We have to wait three fricking months for 30 cards that are "do thing and get a counter" while every mildly interesting archetype (landmarks, whatever Jhin is) starve to death or get outright removed from the fricking game.
>work my ass off slowly building a board with leona stuns vs leveled jayce+heimer, sitting at 3hp vs 20 the entire time >barely stay alive long enough with stuns to get to a turn where i can even *try* going for a swing >but their ferros financier asspulled a ruination earlier and just flushes everything down the drain while giving them free development on the same turn via turrets
truly the peak of gaming
gonna kill myself out of this game
good luck to you guys
a BIG part of why this happened is karma. the only way to consistently beat that c**t is with rallies, and Tumble on a scout is the best rally in the game
I really can't believe they didn't rotate karma, literally the set they were releasing just then had coins in it and they still decided to leave her in.
So anyone who likes jack (and angel) and actually wants to play him in a good midrange deck instead of a coin generator for seraphine, aragornn used this deck for the brawl and sweeped pretty much everyone.
The good thing about this board is we hit bump limit days ago and it's still only page 7. Meanwhile no one posts on /vg/ for 1 and a half hours at the wrong time and it 404s.
/lorg/ doesn't have enough avatar posters and coomers obsessively posting about their waifu like every other general. Truly too cerebral and honest of a general.
The facts are right here. >Dude i cant play my shitty petdecks in ranked like
very cool anymore: im gonna kms rn instead of adapting to the meta and homebrew some creative good decks btw i still believe Freljord/Targon got fricking murdered
Thats it: release the region-free ranked format.
Tired of this "each color must have X specific pros and X specific cons (expect for those 2 regions loved by the devs)"
Lurk: put quick attack on a challenger or lose
Samirafizz: Draw badgerbear or lose
Karma: rally more than 0 times or lose
Literally any deck with a frostbite in it: lose
Foyer: lose
Other stuff: could go either way
>people start running aatrox quinn vayne and quinn gwen to counter fizz samira and sett karma. >gwen quinn also counters aatrox quinn vayne so it ends up being the strongest pick/counter pick in the game
>hungry burger and gate guardian get support like 20 years later >meanwhile cool and literally not even that strong cards like xerath get killed
haha wow
Malphite is actually being used for once though. 13th highest winrate seems low, but that's just because there are like 7 decks that are some combination of Aatrox/Vayne/Quinn in different amounts.
just who wrote aatrox's cards? World ender says it only assimilates followers, yet it also assimilates darkin champions.
In addition, you can turn followers INTO champions with the spell, as if the champions were merely units forms of their signature weapons. Maybe true in the lore, but not mechanics-wise.
most baffling is the fact that nobody seems to notice or care
That means it can't turn regular champions into darkin. >you can turn followers INTO champions with the spell
That's turning them into the darkin weapon. Note how Kayn is turned into his red form but never his blue form, his blue form is human that won against the darkin (it's also shit but that's neither here nor there).
That's because you can't tell the difference between a weapon and a unit, moron.
Can't argue with these. I am now utterly convinced that aatrox's weapon is the same thing as darkin equipment, thanks a lot guys, I kneel as I finally see the light.
>play against Shitmira/Jizz as Jack/PnZ >starts shitting out elusives >he doesn't know.jpeg >avatar of the tides, GE, backalley bar >spend a whole minute playing spells >aggrocuckie surrenders because a turn is taking more than 2 seconds
Heh
I have never had less fun playing this game
In all the past shit metas like irellia and the bandle apocalypse you could still play fun decks, but now you have to play the same generic schlock as the rest of ladder.
feels like I'm just playing the same few matches over and over and over again.
>but now you have to play the same generic schlock as the rest of ladder. >feels like I'm just playing the same few matches over and over and over again.
That's literally intended btw :*~~*~~*~~
They said they want the "new cards to shape the meta" A.K.A play the new shit bigot!!!
>phantom prankster >counterfeit copies >glorious evolution >any and all viable landmarks >lost riches >howling abyss >iceborn legacy >shellfolk >shiraza >mimic >timelines >entire archetypes like ephemeral and self damage >all the champs that have never seen the meta once but were rotated anyways
They went through and removed every unique play pattern they could. What's left is 10 aggro decks, a handful of midrange decks and the 2 playable control decks.
The closest thing to a combo deck right now is samira fizz, or maybe illaoi swain and even then, those two are entirely board based.
if you have an interesting combo deck with a unique wincon, please post it. I'm at my wits end building warmothers call and avatar of the tides+mirror mage shitbrews.
>if you have an interesting combo deck with a unique wincon
Riot doesn't want that, they want you to summon big men and open attack
You're playing the wrong game, in the eyes of the devs
Samira/Riven and Sera/Jack for combo decks. Taliyah/Malph for landmarks. The double damage curse Renekton decks are just better Shiraza decks. Senna/Sett soul cleave for real jank.
I'm kind of confused since most of the decks you listed have been dogshit for a long time and nothing more than bottom tier memes. If you want to go play bottom tier memes, Eternal is right there. It's not like those decks were doing well on ladder before rotation anyway. I don't get why people are upset they can't play their weak petdecks specifically on standard ladder, just go to the format for it. There are plenty of people playing Eternal.
Yes they were all shit but I got masters every season playing my jank trash. Going against strong ladder shit and tuning it to have a better shot in the popular matchups is the fun of this game for me.
And yeah when ranked eternal comes out I'm just going to switch, but no one tries in norms and I'm not losing my masters streak, so in standard I stay.
senna/sett sounds fun though thanks for the idea.
>I don't get why people are mad that they can't use the cards they like >Why would anyone play something they like instead of the current top tier deck?
Also reminder that landmark control could have been a thing but instead they decided to completely remove landmarks as an archetype from the game.
Except for ryze, he gets to keep them :^)
What the frick are you even talking about? >can't use the cards they like
Yes, they can. They're in Eternal. The cards are right there with a big pool of other players using those cards. What's the problem? >Why would anyone play something they like instead of current top tier deck?
The question is why don't you just go play what you like instead of complaining that you can't play what you like in one format in one pool (ranked)? Especially when the complaint wasn't that there was a specific deck they wanted to play, it was "I'm being forced to play what everyone else is playing". There's literally nothing stopping anyone from going into ranked standard and making some shitty homebrew built around some meme card. They just have a smaller pool of cards to do it with. No one is forcing you to play top tier meta decks.
And people complaining about landmarks being removed are ignoring that Malphite is actually good right now because midrange decks can't deal with the double Inviolus Rex power spike and Malphite. It's just a different archetype than the Xerath/Ziggs/Zilean/Arnie stuff. It was the much worse of the two and it's actually working now after rotation.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>It's good now that 60% of the cards got removed from the game
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Yes, they can. They're in Eternal.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Oh you two are doomposting trolls. My bad, carry on.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Eternal is just a dump. Confirmed by the fact they admitted using it as a cope for not being able to balance the game + unnerfing cards that didn’t need it just because they entered eternal.
Of course you’ll ignore this just like you have ignored every other statement and signal because you’re a shill or an actual moron
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Yes, they can. They're in Eternal.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
>karma is the most meta deck in the game >already saw two unyielding spirits in one session
I am seething like I have never seethed before. I don't even care about the about of the game past that point
They literally carved up Bilgewater as a region to cut around Deep. Deep is the only deck bilgewater has ever had that's functional without being such a fricking meta disaster that they end up nerfing every card in it. More than that, it's the only deck bilgewater has ever had that people actually like.
By riot's own criteria for rotation, Deep probably should have been rotated since it's basically been a consistent t2 deck with tournament and ladder presence since the game's official launch, but they decided to make an exception for it because they knew people liked it too much and gutted Plunder instead so they could reprint it.
when bw released for the first time the theme was deep, plunder, and nab iirc, it's a shame they gave up on all of them except plunder (which doens't even feel like og plunder anymore) and made it into the shitspamming wide elusive region
Nami ruined Bilgewater, but it's just a symptom of 'pro' players crying fricking endlessly about nab until Riot was obligated to gut it. Bilgewater's identity got carved away little by little until all that was left was autobuild archetypes and degenerate elusive combo.
>scroll through the meta list >digusted by literally every deck, dont wanna play any of them
do i just quit until next patch? wtf am i supposed to do in the game if nothing in the meta is appealing
That's what I did many expansions ago. This game can be fun in short bursts ever once in a while but to play it consistently I have to have different and fun ways to play. Unfortunately it seems it's not that kind of game.
Maybe try playing single player until they 'fix it'?
>the only reason akshan didn't get rotated is because they were already getting rid of everything else and didn't want to completely screw shurima >freljord was gutted because they unironically thought it was too good at a bunch of shit >a bunch of shit got rotated because they will eventually add cards like 3-6 months from now
They couldn't even give good reasons for the garbage rotation
To the surprise of nobody
Excuse streams like this are just to give ammo for the brainless shills on reddit that will shout down all criticism. This PR just exists for the sake of astroturfing official riot spaces.
They rotated Sivir instead of Akshan because Akshan is a Rubin champ and Riot is a black hole of designer ego.
Freljord was gutted because the whole region is cancer ramp decks where you afk until you play your "I WIN" button, and Plunder. They killed the former because it's been a fricking mistake since beta that everyone has constantly hated on them for not backtracking on. They gutted Plunder because they were reprinting Plunder: Rubin flavoured and needed to warp the game to create designspace for his new pet champ.
And as everyone already predicted: the main factor motivating rotation was just creating space for Riot to reprint the same cards in future expansions, because they have so few designers left on their payroll that they can't afford to come up with 30 new cards ideas every quarter of a year.
I expected like 100-150
Obvious problematic children - like they said
Some champions and package that just doesn't work to be reworked - like they said
I did not expect 60% of all cards getting binned
>ashe leblanc is the most played deck in the game, with one of the highest winrates
pretty funny that it rose so hard as a counter-pick that now people will now have to start counter picking it
the rps meta will never end, people will play the greediest control with their 50 mana karma turns, then people will play demacia scout to counter it because theres no other way, traditional aggro is dead, Then peopl will play frostbite to counter demacia, then it will loop back all over. Good work riot
that's just the reality of card games
there will always be slow-mid/combo-fast
if one gets nerfed completely out of the meta then the game will feel terrible to play until the missing archetype bounces back through innovation or buffs
Rotation killed us.
No it wasn’t the balance and content neglect or juggling interns in and out of the team.
It
Was
Rotation
Doomshitting aside, what decks do you guys like to play and what region combinations are your favorite.
For me is weirdball stuff like targon/frelj (not rampshit) or frelj/ionia
noxus and anything that runs swain or darius
i thought rotation isn't even implemented, or are you saying the announcement alone killed us
The rotation news scared a bunch of people away.
I mean it’s already been confirmed for a while now.
But my post was more of a jab on the black/white thinking that rotation alone killed the game
Anything with si honestly, I like how riot is making it more focused in death and sacrifice rather than the default control secondary region.
>For me is weirdball stuff like targon/frelj
Based Snow Targonbro, this is my favorite deck yo humiliate Ryzegays
just hit master, but it feels like cheating because i was using annie/jhin
what do these icons on some people's accounts mean
You get those from completing gauntlets, you can see the whole rewards list in the gauntlet tab.
is gauntlet worth playing for the experience? never did any serious mode with banning
are side decks a thing? probably not huh
I massively prefer best of 3, with a good deck setup absolutely every single match is winnable. Matchmaking has a much less significant effect in bo3, because you can't get dropped into a 20% wr matchup like you can on ranked ladder.
But I'll warn you, it's a real sweatfest. People pretty much only run high tier decks, so come with a counterpick or two for the meta stuff.
Also all of this only applies when gauntlet is Standard bo3, right now it's singleton bo1, a total meme format in which people are just fricking around building silly decks.
annie/jhin basically plays itself
i just browse the leaderboard and copy decks with regions and champs i enjoy, then modify from there
so many decks are viable right now that you don't have to force yourself to play stuff you dislike
up until platinum it felt like people didn't even try, so i assume literally bottom tier decks can climb there
meant for
dunno how that tag happened
I see. I remember enjoying Annie/Jhin in PoC, so I'm hoping for good things with it in Ranked.
Also planning to build up my collection to run Mono Shurima after the new expansion drops.
I've just started playing Ranked. Crafted some basic Demacia/Illaoi decks along with Annie/Jhin and Deep. Are there any other decks you guys would recommend to climb from Silver IV?
Im a newbie and have Xbox pass, any good decks I can build with foundation cards or it's already powercrept
Obviously you can't make full deck with just foundations, but Elites are like 60% Foundations + few commons
Spider aggro is always decent and can be built with only foundations cards. It will be suboptimal until you unlock more cards, but functional regardless.
when the brackets reset at season end, where do you get placed from masters? plat?
also, does the amount of points influence placement, i.e. can i play down my points to receive a lower rating on reset?
>when the brackets reset at season end, where do you get placed from masters? plat?
Yes
>also, does the amount of points influence placement, i.e. can i play down my points to receive a lower rating on reset?
No, you always go down 2 divisions, master players always start a new season at plat 4 regardless of their points.
frick, that means i'll have to refrain from laddering for the entire coming season to drop all the way
that mono shurima renekton deck is so much fun
making him BIG and then surprise attacking a weak unit on the opponents turn unexpectedly for lethal feels criminal
they never see it coming
Add The list for turn 4 lethals
Strange, Jack the Winner in the new promotional material.
Well, they did promise more LoR original champions.
He is kinda random.
so I guess hes gonna be support for the "self-damaging" archetype? his current card deals damage to ally units for burn and hes depicted here with tahm's symbol.
I assume he is going to be face of the package for Tahm decks, which is long long overdue
That's not even the best 1-drop Elites has lmao
https://twitter.com/PlayRuneterra/status/1637892675545468930
I recognize the kpop punchy man and Jack, but is the 3rd one a league champ or an OC?
It's a noxus lol champion samira aka as the one who fits leblanc card better than leblanc, i expect her to have reputation.
Are they adding Samira to the game?
Yes, Sett and Jack, the winner* too.
*giving credence to the comma theory.
>Jack the Winner getting rotated so we can get Jack the Champion instead
He better be really fricking cool to fill TF's shoes.
https://twitter.com/bkopleck/status/1637870589460512769?t=v5W08R7T7dZ9M3zeF8VohA&s=19
spoilers start tomorrow
>epic capsule upgraded to Champ capsule
>finally get Leblanc
Very cool Riot, thank you. :*~~))
>run Demacia
>queue against Ryze
>t1 drop Cythria
>opponent concedes
Don't know how to feel about using one cancer to cut another. :/
elites is pretty manageable, they're only really bad when they highroll. ryze is a "win or lose" type of deck where your deck beats him or your deck doesn't.
look, they even gave you the tactician for the OTK
Fair enough. I guess I'll still want to branch out to other decks since I'm really bored of this one.
>didn't put lorg in the name
Game generals outside /vg/ get nuked
/wrg/ has been up for a month.
>log in
>"see spoilers at mobalytics.gg" with a pic of the champs
>spoiled before the spoilers are out
They released an art teaser showing all 3 champs yesterday, that's already old news.
The real news is Jack, the Winner being a champion.
I wonder if that Solari dude will also be promoted to championhood.
Rahvun? Probably not without some tweaks, unlike Jack he is already pretty central to any daylight deck
Yes, it is because of the comma.
>reach new milestone on ladder with a lot of luck
>now stuck in a tier where everyone is a lot better than me and i can't complete the daily pvp wins
faaantastic
First spoilers out, seems we are getting more token mechanics
We got another comma character.
Honestly feels extremely out of place for coins to be in Ionia and not Bilgewater
>Mana cheating
>Bilgewater
Tho I wouldn't mind each region getting it's own coins, that would be funny
>extremely out of place to be in Ionia
It's in Sett's package and actually makes sense with the whole invasion and cultural mixing plotline
Did you forget bilgewater has a whole slew of cards that say "plunder: i cost x less" or a unit that fricking discounts your whole deck by 2? It's silly to design a coin hoarding system and not put it in the pirates and gambling region
If both Samira and Jack end up generating coins too, do you think we'll get different art for each region's coin?
expansions in this game are the most boring shit i've ever seen
and even though he's seems like a gay, this guy was probably onto something
Is this a bait?
why would you think that
Mostly cause 95% of what he talks about doesn't apply to LoR
that we died within 2 years doesn't apply? i'm not saying the individual reasons he lists there explain it 1:1 for this game
Game itself seems to be fine to me
Well, threads are dead, but that is no indication of how alive game is
>this guy was probably onto something
>i'm not saying the individual reasons he lists there explain it 1:1 for this game
So literally the only point you have is "a lot of games die in two year, so that make this gay correct"?
>a lot of games die in two year
>expansions in this game are the most boring shit i've ever seen
one his points is that card games are too scared to try something wild and just reach for rotation as a substitute instead of a supporting tool to facilitate bonker ideas to experiment with
we've only seen a handful cards so far but i have a hunch it's gonna be more of the same as always
not that crazy ideas are gonna turn it around at this late stage, but it can't hurt either
but rotation is a way to possibly implement crazy ideas, the things about the rotation planned for this game is to rotate cards that either limit design space (twisted fate or ezreal for example) because trying to implement cool cards that synergize too much with them could be too much. alternatively rotation is also planning to take someone shit like vlad and experiment with an updated version of him.
>no one posted the cards
Cmon guys
Master bingwen seems to be the payoff for the coin gameplan, stack a bunch of coins, play him, play coin and duplicate an expensive unit. Seems like he'd be nuts if you can stack 9 coins and duplicate praa.
>ionia's new gimmick is more mana cheat
fricking hell
>Seems like he'd be nuts if you can stack 9 coins and duplicate praa.
Only need to stack 5+1 spell or 6 if no spell mana, only has to replace his own cost.
Now if you're talking 9 on the other hand, Bout Security 3 times -> coins -> 3 more times, you'd have 6 8/8's with quick attack on board.
Seems pretty good but Ionia is a weird region for it. If this kinda mechanic was in Demacia it'd be nuts, but Ionia doesn't tend to play on curve at all. All depends on Sett as usual
Does the coin price stack too or is it always 1 mana? Because if coin prices stack then it's just a spell mana->mana conversion.
Always 1 mana
Then I can see this getting out of control very quickly so long as they have the generation and draw.
Here is your new champion.
pretty cool, honestly I couldn't care about sett or samira but pretty excited to see what him and his archetype will be like.
He's good. Better than troony the Traveller or side shave femnoid Cithria
Neither of those characters are champions.
There was a poll a few months back on what followers should be turned into champs, it included Cithria and Chip (don't remember Jack tbh). I thought they were talking league champ, didn't think they'd be LoR champs so fast.
Link to it? Who were the top 3?
No idea, I tried to search for it but all I got were algorithm abusing sites.
Thanks, I found one over reddit. Iron Boar was first in the lore poll.
Ok, a ton of searching and some luck later, the one I was thinking of was apparently not an official poll, it links back to some r*ddit shit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/qh4vo7/results_from_the_fun_notatall_serious_redditor/
>Name 1 follower you think should become a Champion.
>pic
Yeah, and Jack wasn't either. That's the whole point.
gonna abuse this if the coins ever become strong
>Coin is burst speed
Good luck getting rid of it
Now pranking that shit...
just wait until you get the attack token and use it as your first action. then they couldn't refill any mana.
It can still refill spell mana
thats true but it basically would kill any combo they wanted to go for with minions while making the best mana they can refill 3 spell mana (assuming it isn't already full).
Interesting that coins cost 1 mana and refill 1 mana. So you need to hit at least 2 points of coin synergy before they do anything.
I have a feeling that unless there's a frickload of coin support beyond what's revealed today, it's not going to be run in its own package as a mana cheat and is instead just going to be spellcast synergy for champs like Fizz/Nami and Flow.
keg decks will probably take advantage of it, you can either use it to fuel the kegs or to refill mana to summon another marai when they tap out removing your first one.
>kegs in ionia
Not happening. Kegs need damage spells to point at nexus or else they'll never actually win. Ionia has nothing that activates kegs. Bilgewater alone doesn't have enough damage spells to self-sufficiently pay off kegs because despite damage-based spells being an explicit part of their region identity, they only have like 3 playable ones and almost never get new spells.
It's a non-issue for yi/jhin decks.
https://twitter.com/bkopleck/status/1637939236887465986
I will now play your new champion
She's just like that.
When will riot ever top Rising Tides? It was by far the most successful card launch they've ever done.
Did they added more dragons yet?
Last dragon I remember them adding is broodfather and the empower one
And speaking of dragons, when are SI's dragons getting support?
Yeah but can i now play Shyvana without being gatekeeped by her mediocre monsters?
No.
Also, Shyvana got a slight update, instead of having to see 12 damage from dragons you now need 16 damage by dragons total (seen or unseen).
>No.
Trash soulless game then, call me when they add an OC cool dragon champ (before EoS) instead of Jack the literally who
Sett reveal
First guess he is good with ramp?
I hate how much draw game gets lately
Isn't Place Your Bets kind of shit?
It's essentially 5 mana refund 1 mana. How does this even remotely hold a candle to the new PnZ draw card?
It's refund 2 if you have any coins
> hold a candle to the new PnZ draw card?
Drum solo is absolutely disgusting and should be nerfed
Formula is more or less the same card (6 refund 3 as spell mana)
Yeah but generating coins is priced into every card that generates coins. You technically get 2 mana back, but you already paid for one of those points of mana somewhere else.
Feels like it probably generated 3 coins and then nerfed it pre-release.
3 coins would absolutely fricking broken
Literally every other card gives 1 coins, so I assume it gave you 1 coin too and then they buffed it
3 coins is effectively 2 mana refund, which would make it equivalent to Formula and fit the current pattern for how Riot has been designing draw. Drum Solo is 5 mana and gives you a 4 mana discount, but I didn't compare it to that because it's obvious that Drum Solo is cancer and the game absolutely doesn't need any more draw as overtuned as it.
You're overlooking the fact that the mana refund comes as an aditional spell in a region that has a lot of ways to benefit from playing spells, it's not as good as drum solo because drum solo is broken but it's in line with other draw cards.
That would literally makes it better than formula in every way(can be casted earlier, refunds actual mana on demand rather than spell on spot, coin can be used to trigger flow which is always good in like half of all Ionia decks)
Right now you could argue they are kinda the same outside of their intended decks
I still think they made it 4 cost 1 coin refund (literally in line with every coin generator) and changed later cause it felt bad outside of coin decks
Schizophrenic champion
Unflipped he's a mindless challenger beatdown like Vi with text that helps him 2 for 1
His flip has nothing to do with challenging, going to combat, trading board value or surviving combat and is instead just "PLAY ME WITH COINS PLEASE"
Then his flip doubles down on the whole "challenger beatdown" but also just has that extra bit crammed in there to say "PLEASE KEEP PLAYING ME WITH COINS"
Malphite ass champ. Coins are cool but this guy is fricking lame.
Wonder if he'll get cute interactions with Aphelios.
Fastest you can level him with no mana regaining is turn 9 (45 mana).
With 1 ramp that's 8 (46 mana)
With 2 ramp that's still 8.
Of course, we all know you're going to be playing him with coins and probably P&Z if you're going all in on him, so you can probably level him on 6-7 if you really try. But that's still pretty slow imo. Playing him with FTR might be interesting, he has a Tryndamere-like ability, but FTR is supposed to be game ending not value giving so I doubt it'd work.
Small mistake, 1 ramp it's 41 mana on 8, 2 it's 45 on 8 (assuming you ramp at 5 and 7 respectively).
*ramp to 5 and 7, from 3+3 spell mana and 5
Took me 3 hours to realize that and we're only at page 2.
Why PnZ I'm not seeing any real synergy besides Victor, but he doesn't really need any mana cheating, he has enough already
With just coins and his package I don't see him being leveled at 6, assuming it works the exactly same way as Lux and spell copying I can see it being with soul cleave
*being possible on turn 6
>But that's still pretty slow imo
His flip is pretty good, generating the best removal in the game
What the hell is this champ?
>boxer catboy mama's boy with the mind of a child
>mechanics revolve around money, champ spell is a stun, payoff is obliterate + AoE ping
>in the region that doesn't do pings, AoE or obliterates
I get them trying to push like boxer = betting but this whole kit honestly just seems so weird and off-theme. Why is any of this ionian?
Yeah, show stopper should ahve just been a 0 mana dragon kick instead. It feels too weird in ionia even if champions are allowed to break the color pie.
>Sett's flipped art shows him facing Jack
Calling it now, Jack is going to be the other half of the coin package and the reason Sett's design is so weird is that they want him to work with kegs.
Jack has blue veins, demon power up?
He was originally part of Tahm's package so it's not beyond reason.
We also got El Padre de Sett.
Wonder if this set will have more demonic stuff.
Wasn't his father noxian?
Samira is literally in the background. I assume he's just in Iona.
He is a Noxian human, he is just wearing a costume.
She doesn't know about the pit fights.
Why does his costume look like that one batman elusive nobody plays
Vastaya themed masked luchador.
kinda weird that we're getting what seems to be his dad, but not his mom as a follower.
Is that batman's father?
All but stated to be Sett's father.
I didn't realize batman was Sett's brother, no wonder he's a challenger.
When are they revealing whats getting rotated
They already did months ago.
they revealed 3 cards as a preview of what it'd be like, not a full list
Closer to 15 actually, but yeah, absolutely not a full list
When is Jack's level 2 splash coming out?
whenever they reveal him
>ftr creates a showstopper
>ice pillar into sett creates a showstopper
>ice pillar into old timer recalls entire board with 0 coins
feel the minah is back baby
FTR is getting rotated anon. Trundle probably is, too.
Variety
Some memes and really good predict for Ekko
Whoops
>ephemeral support for aggro Azir since they're rotating Irelia
>predict support that's actually interesting for a change
I like it, honestly.
Flashbomb peddler is going to get nerfed really quickly
Other than maybe clocking this is a bunch of pack filler. Kinda surprised to see flashbomb support too, I guess cait isn't gonna be rotated
Clockling is insane though, pretty much better Zap Sprayfin honestly
I wouldn't say better, but they are definitely similar.
Zap tutors a spell, while this one Predicts. Zap has Attune, while this one just discounts the card you pick.
The good things about Zap is that you're reasonably guaranteed to get the thing you want since it's drawing from a pool you build your deck around controlling for, and the mana refund from attune can be spent at any time on any thing. Predict has a very good chance of just hitting 3 shit cards you don't want right now and then you're stuck with the discount wasted on one of them.
But yes, Shuriman Zap that hits predict synergy is nuts and going to become a mainstay in most Shurima decks. I wonder if this telegraphs them rotating Zap and the bilgewater attune package.
>shuriman
It's PnZ that's why it's nuts
kek
the visual jokes in this card game are something
They should retheme augment, they have been giving it to a bunch of non technological units just for the effect and it feels weird every time.
It's literally these three and out of all of them only painter is straight up not mechanical
>rotate avarosan sentry
>print SI sentry
>rotate puffcap peddler
>print flashbomb peddler
>rotate zap sprayfin
>print zap clockfin
I warned you fricks they would do this. They aren't rotating cards to narrow the pool or whatever the frick. They're just cutting good cards so they can release them again and pad expansions with little effort. This whole circus is just the LoR devteam coping with the fact that they have a fraction of the budget and manpower they had a year ago.
Why won't they add my man Karthus already.
>last 3 Shadow Isles champs were Gwen, Senna, and Viego
You can blame the Ruined King event
looks like all the new champs are coming to PoC
Jack's package I assume?
>noxus plunder
HUH
>Brash
When will riot realize "draw x fleeting at the start of your turn" is not good? Bilgewater has so fricking many cards that do this and none of them are playable. They literally printed Barbed Chain last expansion as equipment support and nobody ever played it because it's fricking ass.
Inferna is the same shit. Expensive follower with shit stats in exchange for milling your own deck. Nobody wants this.
Pick a Card was good enough that it got nerfed
Pick a Card was TF's champ spell, and was only "good" in the sense that you would only ever have it on your hand with TF on the board and it just served to accelerate his level up by milling 2 topdecks.
Lick Inferna tummy
Inferna seems to be attacking his ship, and the daring demolisher is attacking Sett's arena.
I think they are Samira's.
Brash is leaked to be reverse fearsome. Looks pretty strong to me
>Forcing trades by pinging shit
Yeah, on the second thought you are probably right
Half of them is Noxus tho
Seems like Samira is crashing the party with no survivors.
In a vacuum Brash would feel strictly worse than Fearsome but I can see how it hits synergy with bilgewater pings and that can create some interesting situations since you don't necessarily have to kill a unit to effectively remove it as a blocker.
I would argue game has more 3/2 that 2/3s
Regardless, in vacuum if I have 2 3/1 and enemy has 4/5 he can trade that 4/5 with both fearsomes but only 1 of brash
The issue is more than units with 3 or more hp tend to be really good and every good deck tends to already run them. The overwhelming majority of strong decks will be running a 2/3 that also does good things on top of being a 2/3.
Fearsome is effective because 3/x is an aggressive statline and only aggressive decks want to run it, but the existence of fearsome aggro forces decks to play followers that don't gel with their gameplan just to have fearsome blockers. Whereas having lots of hp naturally makes units good blockers, and most units with control/combo value have defensive statlines so brash is adding value to blockers those decks would have already wanted to run. Brazen Buccaneer trades evenly into Aspiring Chronologist, which is not good.
What can make Brash good is that you can reduce hp outside of combat via AoE damage or pings to effectively remove blockers. There are very few ways to reduce power for Fearsome and even fewer that are readily accessible to the fearsome regions, but Bilgewater and Noxus both excel at pings and AoE damage so Brash can serve as additional payoff to playing to their region strengths.
Poppy and Galio are back
Formidables are still meh for many reasons
I wish tho
Is this real? Are we actually getting a bunch of bilgewater cards that work with the region as a whole and not only their archetype?
No fricking way they don't rotate Sej and maybe GP with this
>Riptide activated trice
I feel like half of the region getting the axe with this
I guess plunder does make sense for noxus. But the potential fusion of pirates and plunder decks might be a bit much.
It's on purpose.
This is just pirates 2.0, telegraphing that most of bilgewater's core aggro tools are getting rotated (probably along with mf/gp) so they're replacing them while making a concerted effort to make the deck more combo focused and less go wide smork.
If they rotate blackmarket merchant I'm quitting this fricking game
>activate an ally's plunder effect
Is this like, actually good with anything but Rex? Most Plunder effects at this point are in-hand discounts on intentionally overpriced spells (RIP monster harpoon) or really minor stat buffs that are only appealing when they're essentially activated for free. The only plunder effects I'd want to repeat after already putting them on the board are Rex and Blackmarket Merchant, but there's a 99% chance they just rotate every Nab card because it made someone asshurt 2+ years ago
It's only a 2 drop and it has a decent body, I could even see it being used in taskmaster decks.
Hot
Pentakill Seraphine looking nice.
>Zilean
>Cooler Zilean
>- Brazen Buccaneer
>“I’d steer clear of her if I were you. She’s got a real nasty habit of making her problems other people’s.” - Samira
I guess if this is Samira's package she is runeterran? Noxus Bilge doesn't work for her, unless they do shit like with Senna/Noc where they shoehorn champion into other region just for the theme
I hope we don't see runeterra champions ever again
Isn't Samira Noxian?
Shuriman - Noxian, but she has nothing to do with Bilge
Citrus courier, smooth soloist, tuskraider, spiritwalker if not flipped yet
Regardless, it's just an option, plunder on a body if fine too
I don't see how she could be runeterran unless she can pull plunder cards which makes no sense.
Probably just going to be a maokai situation where your regions are pre-selected.
A Plunder origin would be dogshit because you'd have all of the payoff but none of the activators. It would be the same problem Jhin has, where he wants to play spell synergy but is stuck with only 1 region's spells.
What's interesting to me so far about Samira's followers is that they're far more combo-focused than previous Plunder cards have been. While she's obviously designed for Bilge/Nox pirate aggro 2.0, I could totally see pairing some of these with Freljord in a similar list to Sej/GP-assuming Samira herself holds up.
will they just keep adding keywords?
Probably?
The whole point of a keyword is to show what card does without writing a novel on a card
Imagine your card, but every keyword is fully written
Why? Some of them are good, not everyone is just a pocket region like Jax or Eve
>dame the despoiler is noxus
>barbed chain, a card featuring her weapon, is bilgewater
Why, at least make her multiregion if you're going to do this shit.
They do this shit constantly. They design a package for 1 region and then arbitrarily split its cards between regions later down the line with no consideration for theme. All this tells is is that this archetype is coming down pre-nerfed
Calling it now, they're going to rotate MF, Crackshot Corsair, the 1/1 elusive, Jagged Taskmaster, Hired Gun etc.
Samira is going to be a 3 or 4 mana backline champ that makes it easier to attack or trigger plunder and pushed with GP to literally just replaced rotated cards from Pirate aggro.
i'm a shitter so i might be over valuing this but also just combat reduces toughness
so outside of regen or heal, you can use a unit to block against brash once, but even if it doesn't die it can't block again
that's probably not great value, admittedly, but
It can make sense of the deck is building towards some like 8/8 Brash Double Attack unit that just wants to come down and end the game if you don't have a brash blocker left, but otherwise just slamming your units into blockers that don't die is throwing cards away and likely to just run you out of units.
Plus Noxus has flock, so the kind of situation where removing a blocker for Brash is better than just removing a blocker entirely is going to be really narrow unless there's a lot more Brash payoff coming tomorrow. Right now we have 1 Brash follower, tomorrow we're likely to get Samira (who will probably be Brash) and like 2 other new cards. Then it's variety day, Jack's followers and finally Jack. There isn't a whole lot of space left to release enough Brash cards for Brash aggro to be a thing.
>make it rain is getting rotated
oh no
New cards season just isn't the same without Swim...
>Try not to stare
My dick can be only so hard
now we're talking
pretty cool, seems pretty aggressive, but looks like it'd be kinda hard to play 12+ cards in an aggro deck or something while shes alive to get the rally.
Cards
No fricking way GP isn't rotated
So elegant edge is just a better jagged butcher in another region
>No fricking way GP isn't rotated
They wouldn't rotate a 5 drop to make room for a 2 drop.
My guess is that Noxus is losing Draven because they already nerfed him to replace him with Rumble. Samira's text essentially being the same as Draven's but with Warning Shots instead of Spinning Axes telegraphs it pretty hard.
As for Bilgewater, my bet is that MF is getting rotated, because Riot's been seething about Scouts for half a year, and because that opens up the low cost spot in Pirates curve for Samira. GP will probably survive because without him they might as well rotate sej, and because cutting him means there's almost no real plunder payoff left in the 4+ mana curve. Taking a healthy combo archetype that's been a mainstay since launch, rotating all of its payoff, giving it a dozen 1/2 drops and turning it into brainless aggro would just be moronic. Not even Riot is that stupid.
Rotating draven would be moronic, he's one of the most fair champions in the game there's no reason to rotate him at all
Prediction:
every region is losing the same number of champions EXCEPT for Bilgewater, Ionia and Noxus. Those regions are losing 1 extra champion to make room for this expansion, so that the totals will be roughly standard afterwards.
Bilge: TF, MF, Tahm
Ionia: Karma, Leesin, Irelia
Nox: Draven, Katarina, Vlad
Draven was one of the most fair champions in the game as a 3/3 and then they nerfed him to a 3/2, in a transparently terrible and unpopular decision, entirely to create a space in the discard archetype for them to release Rumble into. Riot has been doing this 'nerf a card to print their replacement' shit for a while and it's obvious that Draven has already been sacrificed. Samira being Draven and Akshan's gay ship baby just drives home the fact that he's getting trashcanned.
Rumble was never meant to replace draven, what the hell ? Straight up deranged post
I'll break the timeline down for you anon
>way, way back in the heydey of Tribeam (Draven/Ez)
>riot releases an interview where they talked about carefully monitoring the health of tribeam and considered nerfing draven down to a 3/2, but when they tried it the nerf absolutely murdered his playability
>resolved by saying they didn't want to nerf champions directly out of playability like that and would rather hit deck winrates in other ways. Additionally said that they liked Draven's current play pattern and would never want to nerf him out of play by making him die to mystic shot
Fast forward several expansions
>Sion/Draven had been too good for a while, just recently got targeted nerfs to a few cards, including sion's stats
>Draven still a 3/3
>when they nerfed sion, they referenced the old interview and maintained that they didn't feel nerfing draven was the right direction
>winrates for discard aggro drops to comfortable levels, but it remains a good tourney deck because of matchups
>suddenly
>out of nowhere
>"hi guys we're nerfing draven"
>drop him to a 3/2, immediately provokes backlash
>players remind riot of their own past words on the subject
>some chucklefrick responds "yeah well that was then and this is now. The situation's changed"
>2 weeks later
>Rumble released
It was as obvious then as it is now. They reneged on their past words and nerfed Draven to make room for a new, competing discard champ in the same region.
Nothing to do with wanting to replace him and everything to do with them outright stating they had changed their mind on the "never nerfing out of viability issue" and thought that occasionally making a champion that has been evergreen since beta unplayable for a while was an acceptable way of switching things up. Exact same happened with Fiora.
Rumble cannot in any way be a replacement for Draven as they don't fill the same spot, let alone actually work in the same decks.
That flair is wrong, in the video it gives you a choice between dealing 1 to the nexus or giving an ally challenger.
Oh, right, they put in one of tokens instead of proper card, lmao
Can already tell she's gonna be ridiculously broken in PoC.
I am so glad the autobuild era is over, they clearly made her with bilgewater in mind but she is flexible enough to be able to play with other regions.
the autobuild era is not over. The flexible champs like Annie and Samira are all designed by Rubinzoo. We still get autobuild champs like Aatrox all the time because 90% of Riot's card designers are fricking awful at their jobs.
>2 mana 2/2 Quick Attack
Farewell, Draven. It was an honor.
>plunder-based protection spell at 1 mana
Absolutely nuts. This is one of the best champ spells they've printed in ages
>flair
I appreciate that it's an easily generated token and Samira will probably create 2 unless she gets Mystic Shot'd, but this is literally Warning Shot for 1 mana.
>Stylish Shot
Very cool. 1 Mana Warning Shot is a lot more appealing when it can infinitely regenerate itself.
>plunder Badgerbear
Ehh. Part of what makes Jagged Butcher good is that a textless 2/2 is still an acceptable statline for a 1 drop, so it's a playable card even when you can't activate plunder. A 3 mana 1/4 is not a playable card, which means this guy is going to brick in your hand on 3 most of the time.
>Elegant Edge
Fricking ridiculous. People will play this as a 1/2 just because it's a 1 drop with fearsome, but playing this as a 1 mana 3/2 is just crazy. Literally an Arachnoid Horror for 1 mana.
>adroit artificier
Statwise, this is basically a 5 mana gloryseeker. Its text seems good but it's basically payoff for having a wide board of plunder units that gain stats from plunder (ie these new ones), so you can develop into your turn 5 swing. That's good when you have a big board and you're already doing well, but it's often going to be coming down against control decks and only activating 1 ally's plunder because your opponent hasn't been afk. Feels overpriced and understatted for an extremely feast-or-famine effect. I'd play Daring Demolisher but I wouldn't bother with this guy.
>but this is literally Warning Shot for 1 mana.
It's a generated plunder activator, it's probably more likely to be 1 mana challenger. The only other challenger givers are Entracing Lure and Sonic Wave (both of which cost 2 mana but also have a secondary ability). There's also Royal Decree but the main benefit there is the +2/2 for the round.
>no other brash cards
I guess brash is gonna be jack's thing. hope they don't make him some awkward fearsome-like archetype and have him be nocturne but in bilgewater.
Makes sense. The icon for Brash is a fist and Jack's supposed to be a former boxer now running a betting racket.
I have a strong feeling Jack's package is going to be more Nox/Bilge and be made to fit with Samira's package. Otherwise Samira decks are just going to look like Pirate Aggro with the noxus cards swapped for new ones.
will the expansion bring new cosmetics
They're really gonna wait till the 28th to let everyone know what's getting rotated aren't they?
did SI have a different 'kill unit then revive it' spell before spirit journey? i swear i remember one from beta
It has a unit that does that.
oh it was a unit, that's why i couldn't find it
thanks
SI + Noxus plunder featuring Adroit Artificer being spammed with its revive cards/soul cleave.
Pity it isn't BW because then you could do some moronic rex shenanigans. Currently only real options would be Dame and Dandy.
Artificier is not a good card. There are just too few 'hits' for it, as in far too few plunder units in Noxus that have plunder effects good enough to be worth recycling at 5+ mana. Artificier wants to come down on a boardful of plunder units so it can buff everything and essentially be a Noxus Cithria, but since most of these units have low hp and are very vulnerable to removal, that 'dream' is basically never going to happen unless you were already shitstomping your opponent. In this batch, the only card with a plunder effect good enough to reuse is Dandy, but unless you have multiple Dandys on the board there's no point in using Artificier over just using like Daring Demolisher with Fading Memories/Iterative. And even then, you're just getting +3 power per pop. Like it's not bad but you're not winning the game on the spot there, so why would you even build your deck around such a limp-wristed "combo"?
Artificier won't see play outside of maybe some kind of mindless monkey aggro deck with Jagged Butcher et al. but I expect Demolisher to enable a few interesting plunder combo variations by recycling cards like Black Market Merchant, Rex or even Smooth Soloist.
I bet monkeys get rotated. Powder monkeys are never allowed to be good.
I mean this seems cute but it essentially hardcaps at 6 minus every unit you still have on board. Both plunder champs already require 5 to flip so that wasn't really a hard ask even before this new set. Powder Pandemonium is essentially a 4 mana decimate in most cases which I guess isn't bad at all with these new cards.
But really, how many fricking bilgewater cards can they afford to rotate? It's starting to feel like all we'll be left with is Deep and Tentacles.
Variety
>Bunch of reprints
>Paddle star without Zoe
Oh boy
Why reprint paddle star even if you rotate zoe? Just leave the card there
Paddle was token, no?
You had to play 5 mana to remove one unit
Paddle is a card you can put in your deck
Sleepy Trouble Bubble, Zoe's champ spell, also generates a fleeting Paddle Star.
Paddle is 3 mana deal 5, so I guess they decided that rather than adjusting its cost, they'd just rotate it and reprint it with the buff.
Detain is also 5 mana capture, so once again they're just reprinting it instead of buffing it.
What's curious is that both Detain and Paddle Star are tellstone tokens. I wonder if they're going to leave them in the tellstones despite rotating the maindeck versions, or if they'll update the tellstones with new cards.
>demacia's 5 mana capture, but now 4 mana
>"please play avalanche"
>alpha wildclaw 2.0
>SI Culling Strike
>SI Reckoning
>better broadback
>Paddle Star
Not gonna lie this expansion is starting to reek of "we rotated a bunch of cards just to reprint them"
>Detain but worse
Why
This is technically Demacia's only spell-based landmark removal.
That's true, but it's still really bad to the point of being unplayable
Reprinting what we're assuming are replacements to rotating cards makes no sense. It makes some sense in a physical game but just adjust the card you dumb Black folk.
Eternal format tho
It makes sense when you realise riot is struggling to fill the release quota for expansions because of how LoR's budget has been slashed, and that simply remaking cards again takes less time and effort than coming up with new ones. This is basically shuffling your feet to make it look like you're busy when your boss checks on you. It's extremely soviet.
That makes no sense. The most expensive part of releasing new cards should be the art, level up animations, vfx and voice acting in multiple different languages. Game design should be mostly unaffected by budget cuts.
Art is ordered and produced in bulk by affordable 3rd party art studios (typically in korea). They could have years worth of backlogged art already that they're drawing from when they print new cards, hence why some, like Barbed Chain for example, have a very tenuos connection between what the art depicts (in this case a woman attacking with a weapon) and what the card does (draw 2). They just dig up unused artwork from their vault and arbitrarily apply card text to it to make a card--in this case just remaking Pick a Card.
Voice acting is indeed expensive, which is why cards on average now have 20% of the voice acting that Rising Tides did. The game used to have a truly staggering amount of unique lines and vocal interactions but now the average follower has only 1 or 2 lines total.
VFX isn't done by LoR's 'dev' team. They ping it off to the wider Riot VFX department where it falls into queue somewhere behind their other work. This is why releases will often come with blatantly absent vfx for cards that gets patched in months later.
The reason game design is impacted is because it's one of the only things done in house. LoR doesn't have its own art team; they outsource art to specialist studios. LoR doesn't have its own programming team, it sends its programming requests to a larger generalized Riot programming department that works on every Riot project. So on and so forth. LoR's team does 2 main things: product management (ie. how to monetize the game, how to market the game, what new things to release to maximize player engagement with the storefront, etc.) and gameplay design (ie. what cards do, what new modes do). These two were likely distinct departments on launch, but as budget dries up and the development gets restructured to operate with less payroll, they merge. "Design" is time-consuming and nebulous work that's nonetheless necessary, so any way you can trim it down allows a smaller team to do more with less.
I guess what you're saying makes sense. Though outsourcing certain work or relegating it to another department or whatever doesn't make it free. I don't know enough about the company to argue about it anyway so I'll take your word for it.
what happens if you capture a champion, play another copy of it, and then end the capture?
You'll have two of them
you have 2 champion
What's your highest ladder rank anons?
0 elo masters, it's what I just aim for every season
very nice
how many times did you reach it?
The last 3 seasons, and season 2+3
Currently diamond 1, aiming for masters tomorrow. Cutting it tight because I focused more on gaunlets this season
I'm a PoChad.
CARDS YOU WANT TO SEE FRICK OFF TO ETERNAL FOREVER :
Flock
Rearguard
Decimate
Eye of the dragon
Twin discipline
Norra
if the leaked list of rotated cards is true then all of those but norra are going
There's a 0% chance flock is getting rotated. The 'leaked list' is just redditors LARPing.
The actual rotation is going to be even more fricking stupid and the main reason riot is being hushhush about it is to try and conceal for as long as possible the fact that they're just clearing away cards so they can pad future expansions rereleasing them.
100% of flock getting rotated and swain's champion spell being changed to death's hand.
Source : my lucid dreaming and deep meditations
Either that or Swain being rotated too
There are quite a few noxus champs ahead of swain in the list, but more than that he just got buffed recently and they wouldn't still be bothering to buff/rework champs they were going to send to the shadowrealm in a few months.
That's also how we know champs like Lucian and Garen are safe, despite having been forgotten shitters for years. Riot's been going around token-buffing all the old champs they don't plan to rotate to justify not rotating them.
I just went 6-2 with Ryze in Gauntlet and I liked it till the very end
Jack followers
>12 mana
Bilgewater seems kinda weird for this mana cheat effect. Besides rex what will you cheat out? Almost all of it's big cards are archetype specific like deep. Are you just gonna include dreadway or something for the double damage passive?
>what will you cheat out?
Nukkle, Mako and Bull, obviously.
Coins are an autobuild archetype like Lurk. You pick all the cards that generate a coin, grab a couple of the payoff cards and then slot in the two designated champs. All of the things you'd cheat out are built into the deck.
Because 1 coin costs 1 mana and refunds 1 mana, coins are unplayable unless you're running a critical mass of coin synergy to ensure you'll actually be stacking them enough to matter every game. None of the coin cards are going to be playable in random shitbrews or creative combinations. You just search 'coin' and slot in 3 of every card that shows up.
>Nukkle, Mako and Bull, obviously.
But they're shit, they don't even make sense as a coin finisher since they're aggro cards and coin will necessarily play slower in the early turns
you're talking out your ass
Sett's best deck is going to end up just being FTR with trundle though, coins will hardly even be relevant to that
FTR is being rotated, anon.
Fair enough, Warmother's call with Trundle then
>trundle
anon I....
If the leaks are real then my favorite champion and his supporting cards are being rotated. Godrest my king. Without you I can't even call Freljord my favorite region.
riot would be legitimately moronic if they do that. including the other cards cards that would get rotated freljord would lose almost all of it's already small pool of good cards, and replace them all with alpha wildclaw that you can also play as a 2 mana 2/3 if you want.
Let's be real, how many champs can they realistically afford to rotate before they just send the game back into the stoneage?
We're probably looking at 2 champs per region, along with most or all of their 'package' with some exceptions, and then a smattering of base set cards, several of which have already been telegraphed by recent variety cards. I would be shocked if this amounted to as many as 30 cards per region total.
Just looking at Freljord for a second, we have:
Ashe
Braum
Anivia
Tryndamere
Sejuani
Trundle
Lissandra
Gnar
Udyr
And Ornn
What are the fricking odds Trundle gets cut over Braum, Anivia or Tryndamere? Espcially since we already know Lissandra, his intended partner, isn't getting cut. What universe ends with Trundle being rotated while fricking Braum stays? It's absurd to think of.
Just by looking down the list of champs you can pretty easily identify the 2-3 champs getting cut from all of the launch regions. It's only when you get to shit like Targon and beyond that it starts getting hard to guess, because these entire regions are a fricking mess.
I think he's likely for rotation because he has consistently been Freljord's best champ. Any big mana strategy supports him. Anytime a Freljord deck has been meta Trundle is most likely in it. The only real exceptions being Thralls, Plunder, and Overwhelm. If the purpose of the rotation is to shake up the region then removing Trundle would definitely do that.
Nowhere did they ever imply the goal of rotation was to "shake up" regions. They're removing failed concepts liie vlad and oppressive value engines like tf and zoe that warp the entire region around them.
TRUNDLE NOOOOOOOOO!
Bilgewater has nami and fizz who benefit from mindlessly playing spells so they could make use of some of these. I can see people running fizz with barknuckles.
>Goblin Shark
>Mako Shark
>Bull Shark
You fancy that little Angler Fish, eh?
>Coin support
No real surprise there.
I feel like the weird thing seeing this package is that it's mostly coin payoff. In fact, the majority of coin cards we've seen so far feel like payoff rather than enablers. Between Bilge and Ionia we only have like 4 or 5 coin generators, but there are dozens of cards that in some way or another reward you for cheating mana. Which is weird because Sett himself is coin payoff, and by far the best coin payoff we've seen yet. Why would you need to run all of these other coin payoff cards when Sett's going to come down and basically win you the game from coin synergy himself? Feels like the archetype is currently top heavy
Pocket Picker looks fine. Obviously you won't play Coin cards outside of Coin synergy because you need 2 stacks for positive returns, but a 2/1 with last breath is a good chump blocker.
>Babs
A 1/3 that doesn't do anything on summon and isn't a value engine is kind of bad. Technically its stats will grow down the line, but you're probably rarely going to want to play it on 2 just because 1/3 isn't blocking anything well. The upside to this I guess is that it basically turns your coin stack into a combat trick, but it feels too much like Wharf Rat in terms of being a growing 2 drop that will never really get big enough to pay off the tempo you lose early.
>Barknuckles
This is probably the card that will singlehandedly carry the archetype. I can forsee Ionia running that 2 mana landmark that tutors equipment JUST for this. Stick it to a quick attack or elusive and it's going to be your main source of coins.
>Nukkle
Interesting that the main coin 2 drops are both elusives. This is probably just a flat out great follower. The fact that it's playable on 2 as a 2 drop, or playable on 6 as a split body without even running coin synergy is pretty good. I don't know how I feel about Bull himself, he just seems like a worse Citrus Courier (a card nobody was running already).
>Feels like the archetype is currently top heavy
Worst part is coins are a one and done, you're only getting one payoff per game unless there's some absurd generator coming down.
Yeah most of the coin payoffs seem to be in this weird spot where they want you to have 6-8 stacks on the associated turn so you can spend all of your mana, refill it, and spend it all again, but for the most part all the cards we've seen so far are like "spend 1 card, do 1 thing and get 1 coin"
The archetype as presented feels like it's going to rely excessively on a unit equipped with Barknuckles striking almost every turn to be your coin engine. Though it's also weird in that most of the coin cards are playing down in tempo, for turn 6/8 payoffs that feel designed like normal "I am winning on board" topenders rather than ways to reverse tempo or bypass a losing board.
Though now that we know Jack's followers are coin focused, there's a very real chance Jack himself will be a coin engine.
Does babs grow with mana refilled at round start?
Probably not, that would be insane
>2 mana 4/3
Not even riot is that stupid. Card is going to end up really underwhelming though
Probably only if it bleeds into spell mana.
>fortune croaker is a girl
I thought it was some horse voiced voodoo man this whole time
That's his mom.
sovl
Bilgewater ALWAYS gets the best art
I just realized it's
>last breath: get a coin
If you kill the slime, you get the coin back.
Is it wearing a fish outfit? I am not comprehending
My favorite part is the background.
>randomly open 3 ziggs
gonna be real sad if they decide to rotate him
of course
Are they really not giving us a list of who is rotating?
we have to wait for the when the patch notes drop tomorrow I guess
Presumably they'll have a blogpost detailing the exact list but they've been putting it off conspicuously. At this point we probably won't get it until the patchnotes drop, or the day of the release.
why are they dropping it so late? do they have something to hide?
Obviously.
I guess it's because they don't really have to, new cards might get people excited but telling someone their favorite card is rotating out might not be great news.
They probably don't want community pressure to kick in and complicate things.
i should have switched to late game decks sooner, this is stupid fun
better hope you hit deal 15 to all enemies as one of your living legends cards.
didn't but got obliterates and that overwhelm guy with other celestials to stack him and managed to close it out
i didn't deserve it though, only won because that asol was a perfect top deck when he was my only out
congrats, leveled seraphine + ezreal with Glorious active isn't easy to beat.
That's asol's spell not an invokable.
I'm not really a fan of Sett's or Jack's cards that have been revealed so far. Fingers crossed that Jack and other cards are good.
I haven't played in a while, but I'm actually pretty excited for rotation.
Reminder, there's a 90% chance they don't fix the nora's teacup bug.
Nah it will most definitely be fixed. They will be shilling a new path game mode after all.
so this is what comes to. we're fricking phoneposters, now?
Bluestacks.
>Noc and kalista not getting rotated
I am surprised, I guess they have that janky spooky deck going on right now
Says who? They haven't announced shit yet.
I'm pretending that the leaked list is real
speaking of which, your prediction seems to be on point witht that list. Your reasons make a lot of sense too
Fearsomes are safe because it's one of those archetypes that the game 'must have' as a background threat that can rise to threaten greedy decks. Too much of the game's stat balance works on the idea that 3 power is important because of fearsomes. If you rotated the fearsome champs then fearsomes would just become a champless deck. If you rotated fearsomes like mistwraith, it would just throw the whole game out of whack and a lot of greedy decks would jump a solid 10% in winrates.
It's sort of like how some form of nox aggro that just vomits 1 drops and then points fervor face has been in the meta since launch. It's a super simple archetype that uses almost exclusively old cards, but it HAS to exist because going wide and aggressively burning down greedy decks is a necessarily counterbalance to decks that just want to ignore board and afk until their wincon.
If I had to guess, top candidates for rotation in SI are Elise (they've already telegraphed this by telling us a bunch of spider cards are being rotated) and Thresh. If you look at SI's champ curve, you'll notice they have literally nothing over the 6 mana point, because Thresh existing prevents them from printing expensive SI champs he can just cheat out. He's almost certainly the one on the chopping block.
I'd say my final masterlist for 'likely rotation' before Riot reveals the actual list would look something like this:
>Demacia
Pick 2 between Fiora, Lux and Quinn. Fiora's a serially problematic alt wincon whose existence limits how good Demacia's combat tricks are allowed to be, Lux breaks with her region identity and Quinn is just a relic of a form of "scouts" as an archetype that Riot's been deliberately shifting away from. Lucian, Shyv and Garen are safe because of recent buffs.
>Freljord
Anivia and Braum. The latter because he's just kind of a failed concept stapled to a failed archetype. The former because she encroaches too much on SI identity by essentially being a death synergy champ with no actual connection to her home region.
>Noxus
Katarina, because she's the perennial problem child. Vlad, for the same reasons as Braum. Longshot 3rd candidate: Draven, because Samira is too similar to him and riot doesn't like a region having two champs competing for a slot in the same decks.
>Ionia
Lee Sin, because he's a problem child like Katarina. 2nd spot has a lot of candidates with Karma, Shen, Yasuo, Zed etc but my guess is Irelia because the new Azir cards they printed indicate they're trying to make a new deck for him away from Ionia.
>PnZ
Heimer and Ez. Simply put, they're both win powerful win cons that strongly impact the kind of cards you can put in PnZ and who have basically shaped every meta PnZ deck since launch. Rotating Ez lets you have more targeting spells and targeted AoE, rotating Heimer lets you just have more good spells in PnZ in general, and the fact that they printed Formual is a dead giveaway that Heimer's saying goodbye.
>Bilgewater
TF, as they've already told us. Bilgewater has the lowest number of champs, so it may just stop there. If they do rotate a 2nd, it'll be Tahm, 100%. He's an autobuild champ stuck to a dead archetype and one of his followers is being promoted to a champ.
Irelia and Vlad were confirmed by Riot, so you are 100% correct at least there
>Targon
Zoe, as they've already told us. 2nd candidate is most likely Soraka, for the same reasons as Tahm. Her design can only possibly make sense when Star Spring is good, and Star Spring can only be good in a game without landmark removal.
>Shurima
It's hard to say because the region itself is still so relatively new. Since all the Ascended Champs technically synergize, it's unlikely any one of them will be rotated individually. Zilean is receiving new predict support, so he's safe. Kai'sa, abomination that she is, is still way too new to get shitcanned. Rek'sai isn't getting rotated without rotating Pyke (which is unlikely just because Bilge has so few champs). This just leaves Akshan, Ziggs, Taliyah and Sivir as candidates. Akshan is a good bet because his design, like Fiora's, strongly limits the kind of cards they can put in Shurima, and because he's got an infinite they haven't fixed yet (big red flag that they'll just 'solve' the problem with rotation). As for a second candidate, I think Taliyah is safe because they printed explicit support for her with Rockbear Shephard so recently, so I guess Ziggs is probably the best choice there.
>Bandle
Since almost every bandle champ is multi-region, I don't think it's likely they get any of them rotated specifically as bandle champs, plus Heimer and Ziggs being rotated would technically fulfill Bandles rotation quota too. I'd say there's a nonzero chance Poppy gets rotated just because she's been such a problem for the game but I wouldn't bet on it. Rather I think bandle is just going to have a bunch of its annoying non-champ cards (ie. Loping Telescope, Mayor) rotated.
Anon, you probably put more effort into thinking about this than Riot did. Sounds sound though, I do hate most of the champs listed
sound reasoning tbh
gonna be interesting to compare those posts to the actual list
Jack
And his boat that doesn't boat
>5+ mana
>whatever stats
>one keyword
Why do they insist on printing this pack-filler?
considering shes decently stated and there aren't many brash cards she might still be good enough. brash is just a beter fearsome since you can low the health to keep things from blocking.
ah frick, I hoped angel would be playable but she seems pretty shit
then again I might be underestimating brash, it seems like it could actually be better than fearsome as an evasion mechanic
It's absolutely better than fearsome. Specially in Bilge, where you can drop aoe health with a random MIR or just ping your problem blockers. Angel is still trash though, maybe at 5/6
I don't see brash being good enough to give you value worth whatever she's missing by being vanilla.
>unironically releasing a packfiller trash card in a miniset AND right before the first ever rotation AND it's wasted on a moneyprinting monsterwaifu card with a powerful sounding name
embarrassing
Looks like he lost.
>posting rotated cards
>5 punch pablo
they tore off his arms
well, the brash stuff seems pretty interesting, since you can abuse prize fight to stop things from blocking them. the coin stuff is still weird though, like they should have went more all in on the brash then making him try and work win coins.
pretty cool that some of the cooler athm support cards like pablo are getting reprinted.
>level up needs to have spent 12 mana in 1 round
I just don't see him being able to do that without freljord shenanigans.
>all the coin cards
What about them? How many are you expecting to have? What are you expecting to do with them? Do you think it's worth the payoff?
Sett's the only real coin value I've seen so far.
Cute angler
lickable tummy
WHERE THE FRICK IS THE ROTATION LIST RIOT
THE UPDATE IS FRICKING TOMMOROW
in 40 minutes
YOU BETTER NOT BE LYING TO ME IM GOING TO EXPLODE
Rotation
https://lorreport.com/rotation-2022
https://mobalytics.gg/blog/lor-cards-standard-format/
>the leak was real
what the frick are some of the regions going to do, freljord lost almost all of it's good cards
>leak said eye of the dragon + homecoming + claw of the dragon was going
>the only good card ionia is losing is deep med
literally why, this actually doesn't fix anything for them. and ryze will be just as good now.
that image based one is missing an entire image of ionia cards, the cheaper ones
eye of the dragon is definitely out
>cut 50 cards per region
>that's 500 or so cards cut
>replace them with 47 new cards
Yeah, so many decks are fricked. I still stand by rotation being a gigantic mistake.
am i reading this wrong or did they just delete both spider aggro and mistwraiths
what the frick
are you from two years ago
yeah why
you should've gotten your fill of those decks then
unfortunately i stopped playing when the beta ended and only came back now
damn you weren't kidding
well those decks have been bad for eons, removing them from standard is a mercy kill
hopefully they get reworked into something more exciting at some point
oh, shame
i thought i heard that spider aggro at least was still pretty functional and very low cost to get into
mistwraiths was always kind of a shitpost comp but i liked them anyway
mistwraiths was pretty good recently in the last patch. though all the elites and jayce/lux decks made it less playable since there were more decks with fearsome blockers.
>hopefully they get reworked into something more exciting at some point
They wont be.
>frej removed from the game entirely
rubins vision is finally coming together
all that stinky no fun control can just frick off to eternal
freljord control is fricking braindead and unironically brought the rest of the region down
without it they'll be able to get good cards again
>and unironically brought the rest of the region down
Yeah, the rest of freljord like uh... ramp?
but they pretty much got rid of everything else good in freljord that isn't control too. including spirits unleashed which was the only real reason to ever pick freljord over another region as a secondary region.
spirit's unleashed isn't a freljord card, it's a runeterran champion
you put it in your deck and forfeit your second region in exchange for it
there's no easy fix for freljord's situation, keeping these cards in doesn't give it any more of a real presence
starting fresh is probably the best idea
In Rubin's vision, Overwhelm is the only playable Freljord deck. Anyone who puts a ramp card in their deck is instantly permabanned.
>The only Poppy cards still in are Yordle Squire, Yordle Captain, and Heroic Refrain
>Yordle Squire became utterly useless without the "Grant all allies with equal or less power than me" units
>Yordle Captain synergy has been drastically crippled
>Heroic Refrain is Heroic Refrain
*also, they removed all my favorite champs, spells, and units
>deleting literally yasuo
roru
rumao
>Black Market Merchant rotated
kbye. Uninstalling.
>NOOOOOO MY FAVOURITE CARD IS FRICKING ROTATEEEDDDD
Dude just Eternal format, is not the end of the world
>let's split the game in half, surely that will be good for it
You already said PoC was going to split the playerbase and kill Lo-opppsss it didnt happen, stfu doomposter
>having any hope in an eternal format on a game that already has dire problems balancing one format
>legion rearguard still in
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
The frick are you guys reading? Those cards are all gone
yeah the one with the images is missing some apparently compared to the text list
Check your eyes, anon, Rearguard is rotated.
Looks like they aimed to keep roughly 90 cards, give or take, in each region. Kind of interesting, on average each region lost between 30% and 50% of its cards, on average the game's cardpool went down by almost half.
>they didn't rotate Jettison or Bloodbait so all the spell generators in Bilgewater are still fricked by unplayable hits.
Cool
>Jayce / Hitler basically untouched
Frick, that's the one I wanted gone most after Ryze and Ez
>Runeterran
>In Rotation (8 cards)
>Aatrox
>Bard
>Evelynn
>Jax
>Jhin
>Kayn
>Ryze
>Varus
>Out Rotation (0 cards)
>
Ryze lost like all of his Ionian tools, he should be a lot shitter now. Hitler lost Vile and that's pretty much it
losing vile feast is a huge fricking deal for that deck to be honest
Yeah, but aggro lost a lot of stuff to make up for it. I dunno I see that deck still being pretty annoying for a while.
Frick ranked I'm only going to play eternal
>Plunder lost GP, Bjerg, Zap and Black Market Merchant
Holy frick they really wanted that deck to fricking die.
Holy frick I didn't even catch that they rotated Spirits Unleashed too. Rest in fricking peace, Plunder. You're a noxus aggro monkey archetype now
>Anivia I get
>Braum was seeing some play here and there
>Trundle was always seeing play
>but let's leave fricking Tryndamere of all things
>bone skewer rotated
>pyke isn't
So he just doesn't have a champ spell anymore?
Also I find it funny how all allegiance cards are getting rotated except the shurima one.
>SI lost almost all of its 1 drops
lmao
Same thing is happening to Swain. I assume the spell will continue to exist as a champ spell but not as a maindeckable spell. Similar to how a lot of the cards created by Tellstones are getting rotated but Tellstones themselves aren't. I doubt they're changing champ spells for so many champs.
Nah he will probably keep it. Just won't be maindeckable.
Same with Yuumi and Udir
Probably you just don't get it as a maindeckable card, only token
>Got rid of Rumble
FRICK YOU
And draven too because god forbid discard to be playable.
>rotate a ton of random shurima champs like xerath and zilean
>but leave in ahkshan who has been limiting design space in the region since his release
>leave in taliyah
>get rid of a ton of landmark support
I'll give you a hint: none of rubin's champs got rotated. No matter how much many of them obviously deserved it, they were spared because of dev bias.
Taliyah follows the pattern of Sejuani and various other champs, where they had already rotated too many champs out of a region so rather than rotate them, they just ensure they will be completely unplayable.
yeah, you can tell, they got rid of all of yuumi's support cards but left in yuumi herself just so he can play his fizz yuumi deck.
Except ziggs got rotated
You can't convince me that this list wan't made throwing darts at a dashboard
There's definitely a sense that a small number of cards were selected deliberately or out of some kind of petty childlike vindictiveness, and then the rest were chosen almost entirely at random to fill a 'quota' of cards cut per region. If you asked riot directly I doubt they could account for even half of these cards.
Either way there's no way game design was taken into consideration.
or maybe just maybe the next year or sets is already developed as is the custom and they know something you don't about upcoming cards
>riot gaymes
>knowing something
Sounds like they're bad designers if they have to remove existing cards to fit in their shitty replacements.
Well I already know they rotated Zap to print PnZ Zap, they rotated Culling Strike to print SI Culling Strike, they rotated Paddle Star to print 2 mana Paddle Star, they rotated Precious Pet to print Plunder Pet, they rotated Pick a Card to print Barbed Chain, etc. etc.
So yeah, you're right. Rotation is going to make a whole lot more sense as we steadily see just how goddamn many cards riot cut just so they could rerelease them as pack filler later.
>Lulu
>Poppy
>Rumble
>Ziggs
>Gangplank
>TK
>TF
>Fiora
>Lux
>Poppy (again)
>Anivia
>Braum
>Trundle
>Irelia
>Lee Sin
>Lulu (again)
>Yasuo
>Aphelios
>Soraka
>Taric
>Zoe
>Draven
>Katarina
>Rumble (again)
>Vlad
>EZ
>Vi
>Viktor
>Elise
>Hecarim
>Kindred
>Thresh
>Sivir
>Xerath
>Ziggs (again)
>Zilean
SI got scammed.
>trundle
>avarosan sentry
>blighted ravine
>feel the rush
>hearthblood mender
>it that stares
>troll chant
>fricking spirits unleashed
freljord was already one of the worst regions in the game, and they got rid of pretty much all of it's good cards or any reason that you'd want to splash it as a region. literally all that remains is three sisters, she who wanders, and harsh winds. they even got rid of a bunch of shit like babbling bjerg and entreat so that if you actually wanted to play freljord you can't have decent cards that help you find your good cards from your other region.
Patchnotes
https://playruneterra.com/en-us/news/game-updates/patch-4-3-0-notes/
>new cosmetics
well, thats nice at least
>noodle nerf revert as zoe rotates
>war chef nerf revert as lulu rotates
this is a fricking cruel joke at my expenses
>nerf all the strong decks that aren't getting hit too hard by rotation
okay that makes sense
>nerf powder pandemonium after they rotate a ton of bilgewater plunder cards
great design riot
did you miss all the plunder cards being added
powder pandemonium is going to wreck ass this patch, a preventive nerf is a good idea
it's basically the new and improved decimate
When has riot ever pre-nerfed a card?
it has happened before
I fricking told you, monkeys are never allowed to be fun.
In its current state Powder Pandemonium would essentially be a better Decimate in a Nox/Bilge aggro deck that's guaranteed to plunder 6 times by turn 6. 1 more mana doesn't hurt, considering this is just a burn card that is going to be played exclusively in a burn-aggro list.
>aurelion sol skin doesn't even change pose on level up
Freljord is literally worthless now. It was already bad, but now they have absolutely nothing of value. Can't even play Forge cause they rotated the best Forge card.
>WAHHH
>WAHHH
>WAHHH
Play Eternal format then
thing is freljord was below average already so going there is basically just gonna result in mediocrity at best. the rotation gave it the best chance of being playable by bringing down the powerlevel of the game but they just got rid of all it's good cards anyway with almost nothing to replace them with.
>stop complaining about objectively bad design choices dude
No.
I just hope the game can support 2 queues without doomposters spamming pictures of 5 minute matchmaking
3 queues. We'll have Ranked Standard, Normal Standard and Normal Eternal.
who the FRICK plays normals
explain something to me ex-/lorg/
how do we never have enough discussion to naturally sustain a general on /vg/ but when a patch hits this many people players come out of the woodworks?
is this game just always solved so quickly that no discussion can happen a week past new release?
We have no ritualposters/avatargays to keep a general in /vg/, that's the truth. All our discussion is related to the game while if you go to other generals it's usually around 30% the actual game 70% random shit maybe related to teh characters in the game.
All the people who want to frick LoR characters posts about it in /lolg/ instead.
This is probably true, go to the big/eternal threads and they're full of avatargays.
How the frick does katawa shojou still have things to talk about?
Nearly nobody deckbuilds in this game, everyone just metadecks their shit. There's nothing to discuss when the meta is concrete.
This is helped by counterplay to something being either really intuitive or almost impossible for any given deck. There's just not much to talk about outside of spoiler season
the game demands too much brainpower to play every day. people see new cards and get hyped but then stop playing soon after. plus, ladder anxiety is a thing. it's like pic related - thinking about playing LoR vs. playing LoR
tbh I don't mind the thinking I just hate how some decks just get to top deck one card and win
it's really deflating
This game is dead to me now
>no ranked eternal queue
>all fun decks rotated
goodbye
>no ranked eternal queue
They already confirmed both standard and eternal will have ranked queues
No, they confirmed that Eternal will get a competitive season later this year. Standard is the Standard competitive mode. They just promised to bring back Eternal for a meme tournament once in a blue moon to make the finality and inevitability of rotation feel less bad. They're probably going to do it once to fulfill the obligation and then never again. It's empty PR.
Eternal's just going to be a clusterfrick since they aren't balancing for it.
Eternal now has a 2/1 serpent and 1/3 ballistic bot for example.
>2/1 serpent
deserved, invoke is weak as frick. this will not be broken
>1/3 ballistic bot
based, p&z burn being tier 1 is a good thing
Weren't those changes expressly for eternal to be balanced? Not saying it will be but I thought that was the point
No, they're expressly because shit's being rotated so they can undo some nerfs.
Except the buffed cards are the ones being rotated anon. They aren't playable in standard
technically serpent isn't rotated but it might as well be without zoe and sketchy
That makes things even worse, they're fricking up eternal on purpose.
However, in the serpent reasoning
>With Rotation, Targon is losing access to most "Invoke low cost" tools in Standard. With that in mind, we still want The Serpent to be a consideration when you see it from an Invoke.
>With a higher power ceiling in Eternal, it feels like the right time to restore some of Zoe & Co's former glory and put the DANGER back in the danger noodle.
They outright say want eternal to go full moron.
Pic related, all the crossed out ones are rotated (also Zoe, who's the main one), only two of the remainder (marked with N/A) can't make the serpent.
True, I'm not even saying the changes were good. But your post was saying that they were ignoring it when they blatantly aren't.
Fast atrocity too! Man it feels forever since we had that one, can't wait to play atrocity decks with champions I've never had the chance to like Jack or Sett. Maybe even Samira!
>riot says they are gonna balance it
>anon says they won/'t
mmm...
That isn't balancing, that's unbalancing. They were nerfed because they were strong for what they did, then they undid those nerfs with no reason other than "frick you for playing eternal".
all of those nerfs are completely outdated and reverting them does pretty much nothing
the only exception being atrocity but that nerf to slow was just an early rotation anyway
I'm sure there are dozens of cards left in the pool with "outdated nerfs", they weren't undone. It's almost like the nerfs weren't outdated and you're making excuses for a bad decision.
yeah bro can't wait for 2 attack serpent and war chef to fricking dominate the eternal ladder tommorow
Why are you being disingenuous? They're proof riot is purposely fricking with eternal format, there's definitely going to be more to come.
reed the fricking article, they specified they're balance patching eternal when needed
b***h they don't even balance standard when needed, what makes you think they're going to be balancing the format they created specifically so they could create things that don't combo with old cards?
>they don't even balance standard when needed
why lie?
Why are you pretending like we didn't live through months of no balance changes during some horrific formats? I even distinctly remember some decks getting slaps on the wrists then going right back to dominating.
I'm not. Why are you pretending they don't balance the game?
I didn't say they never balance the game, that's your strawman. I said they don't balance it when needed, which you even admitted they don't.
nta, but yeah. If it bothers you so much why are you even still here?
where do you think you are, that someone would stop browsing the thread for a game just because they hate it
>waaaah stop saying bad things about [corporate entity], accountability is bad
You goy are something else
We've known they're shit at balancing since Azirelia fricking years ago. This is hardly a revelation anon, you're just treading water. Personally I just quit everytime the meta gets bad and come back for patches, if you're gonna whine and moan do it when it actually happens.
>we know they're shit at balancing
>so surely eternal will be playable after any amount of time
Well the main game is playable for amounts of time so yeah.
Obviously Eternal is going to be fricked now and then, but there's zero indication they'll leave it to drown. Saying that the devs are shit at balancing is true but they get to it eventually. If you really think otherwise you'd have quit during Azirelia, or Poppy Ziggs, or Bandle tree, or Tribeam, or monoshurima, or Ryze, et cetera.
>Obviously Eternal is going to be fricked now and then
More often than not.
Telling people to go to eternal if they don't like the outright moronic rotation choices despite knowing they aren't going to balance it for shit tells me you're just a homosexual who doesn't want to see people insult a multi billion dollar company for what are objectively bad design decisions.
Riot themselves have confirmed eternal is going to be a terrible format, just from the fact they created rotation to print cards they wouldn't have otherwise been able to due to balance problems. If you could balance them with patches then rotation would be unnecessary. And that's ignoring the fact that multiple weaker decks have been relegated there for no reason at all.
The only reasoning I've heard in favour of rotation, especially with how it was implemented here, is pure cope that doesn't stand up to even the slightest amount of scrutiny.
Lmao I never said any of that shit, I don't even like rotation either and would prefer live balance too. Literally said NTA my first post. You've just been spouting rhetoric about how the format will be unbalanced, when this game has actually never been balanced.
You're also making claims like they "aren't going to balance it for shit" when there's zero indication for that, they're going to patch it just as often as standard.
If the first patch comes out and accomplishes literally nothing come back and I'll moan about it with you bro, until then all indication is it'll just be the same as always, probably half a step forwards each patch.
>Lmao I never said any of that shit, I don't even like rotation either and would prefer live balance too. Literally said NTA my first post.
You're defending the "just go to eternal bro" anon as if it's a valid argument.
>You're also making claims like they "aren't going to balance it for shit" when there's zero indication for that, they're going to patch it just as often as standard.
Yes, I made very obvious conclusions. They also said they aren't going to patch it as often as standard (which isn't patched very often to begin with), and don't pretend like they can patch it at a certain point since the entire point of rotation was to give them design space that would make old cards far too powerful. What do they do if they make TF broken since he's no longer taken into consideration when printing new cards? Give him -2/-2? There's no way they're going to nerf standard cards for eternal.
>I'm defending
That's not what I'm doing, reading comprehension. I'm saying Eternal will be playable, you're saying it won't ever be. I think you're being autistic about this, if you really hate rotation so much you can feel free to quit, I don't care if you play eternal or not.
>what'll they do about tf
Make him need to draw more cards to level, buff other random shit, make him cost 5 or 6 or 7 mana, what are you even saying?
>That's not what I'm doing, reading comprehension.
Nah that's exactly what you're doing, you're saying "just quit then" as if that fixes the problem.
>make him cost 5 or 6 or 7 mana
Ah yes, what a good solution.
Sure, whatever makes you feel better dude. You're saying incorrect things and I'm correcting you, there's no agenda.
>what a good solution
Your point was there was no way to patch TF beyond removing him
>don't pretend like they can patch it at a certain point
And it was blatantly wrong. Obviously my spitball solution isn't a good one, you've proven nothing
I didn't say there was an agenda, I said you were defending a moronic statement, which you're doing.
>Your point was there was no way to patch TF beyond removing him
Yeah I suppose you can make problem cards cost 20 mana, that's just making a banlist which defeats the purpose of a rotation. The idea was balancing not killing, note how balance implies neither amazing or shit.
>ignores the two other suggestions, strawmans my argument
You're a cool dude. We have no reference on how good he will be. Making him a 5 mana 3/2 or 3/3 might be enough, making him need to draw 10 cards might be enough, you could even do both.
>You're a cool dude.
Oh you don't like the argument? Quit playing Ganker then. That was your response right?
Shitposting aside, I don't think +1 mana would do shit considering his play style, +2 or more would likely kill which is not a balance.
I also don't think adjusting the level up condition would do much, iirc he's already had it adjusted multiple times.
>We have no reference on how good he will be
We know rotated cards are no longer being considered when they create new cards, that's all the reference you need. It's amazing that people have difficulty understanding things will not be balanced when they created rotation to make things that would otherwise unbalance the game (to the point where patches wouldn't be acceptable).
>you don't like the argument
Lol I see what you wanted to do, it's really not that clever. Just made you look moronic
>+2 will likely kill which is not balance
Don't act like they haven't killed cards before. Nami, Poppy, bandle tree, azirelia were all executed, that's how it's gone for years.
If you want to make the argument that it'll happen more often you're right, but then that kind of thing would have to happen anyways if they wanted to print similar kinds of cards without rotation, so it's not much of a difference
>Lol I see what you wanted to do, it's really not that clever. Just made you look moronic
What, you don't think it's a good statement? That when something is bad you should leave? Why say it then? And why defend another guy who says it?
>Don't act like they haven't killed cards before.
I never said they didn't, that doesn't make it a good thing. Balance patches should be balancing, the (impossible) goal of every game designer should be a perfect 50% win rate for everything. Balance patches shouldn't exist to kill cards. That's why they've given dominating decks slaps on the wrists a few too many times, they were trying not to kill it outright.
>but then that kind of thing would have to happen anyways if they wanted to print similar kinds of cards without rotation
There would be more balance patches and the card would be taken into consideration when creating a new card, unlike rotated cards now. The new cards breaking old cards simply wouldn't be printed (or they'd be different in some major ways).
LMAO dude you are being autistic about this. Have you really never quit games before? You just keep playing things that make you seethe with rage? Pretending to be moronic to convince someone else to quit arguing with you just makes you look moronic and desperate, I'm not angry about you making stupid arguments.
> The new cards breaking old cards simply wouldn't be printed
This is starting to get into just different opinions though. Some people want to play new shit and some people don't. Just a matter of preference ultimately. If the devs really wanted to make their new shit, would you be honestly happier if they didn't do rotation and just outright killed TF to print it? It'd be effectively the same outcome as if they rotated him and killed him in eternal. So there's no reason to give a shit, which is pretty much my opinion.
These devs print whatever the frick they want and it has always ended up with dead shit, no difference.
>Have you really never quit games before
Of course I have, why do you think "just quit lol" is a valid argument?
Because the alternative is to keep playing something you don't want to play? What do you mean?
"I hate this fricking game, time to queue fifty games"
The alternative is riot doesn't make moronic decisions.
Why are you defending riot's ineptitude?
Oooh, shit, do you think I'm making some sort of point by saying to quit? I'm trying to give you advice on what to do with your life instead of seething, it's just what I would do. My points were pretty much everything else I said other than that. I'm not trying to say that their decision was good because you can quit, I'm saying if you're seething so hard about it you're better off quitting.
>why are you defending riot
Read my other posts, you said incorrect things and I corrected them. That's all.
>Oooh, shit, do you think I'm making some sort of point by saying to quit?
Why would I think you're making a point? You're just being a homosexual for the sake of it.
>why do you think "just quit lol" is a valid argument?
Well you asked that question, seems kind of blatant in retrospect
Go be a homosexual somewhere else then, people were discussing the update before you chimed in.
? So did you not ask that question or what? Also yeah, and you were wrong about a lot of stuff. That's why I chimed in.
>That's why I chimed in.
The first thing you said was
>nta, but yeah. If it bothers you so much why are you even still here?
Just have a nice day.
Lol, I don't think you really got it but the main thing was the "yeah". This game is basically never balanced and rotation isn't really changing that for the worse, so yeah, if you're concerned about balance it's not the right game for you.
>they get to it eventually.
Slurp the goyslop. Do not ask questions. The company is your friend. They'll get to it eventually. If you don't like it, just quit chud. Do not criticise the corporate entity. The corporate entity is beyond reproach. You're just entitled for wanting a good product. Slurp the goyslop. The company is your friend.
I mean yeah it's objectively true though. What tier 0 deck is still around anon? Whenever it happens I quit and when i come back the deck is six feet under.
Because I've been playing a ryze meta for 4 fricking patches now.
>Hallowed and Viego lost basically nothing
SIChads can't stop winning
Atro was pretty big for Viego, no?
>Riot promises to nerf Hallowed to account for rotation
>Literally nothing is touched
>Foyer isn't nerfed into the ground
>Quinn Gwen is going to rape ladder for entire month
I hate them so much
As someone who has 100k viego mastery, Atrocity rotating does not matter at all. By the time you have a big enough mist/Viego to atrocity it, you were winning the game anyways. Atrocity was always a win-more noobtrap in Viego decks.
Brash is fricking broken
btw Rotation is still better than a b*nlist format
Banlists aren't necessary in digital games. You adjust the card.
Rotation is literally just a banlist
Who am I supposed to play Master Yi with now? HOW do I play Master Yi now?
...you were playing master yi?
Yes I had 3 Master Yi decks that performed just fine.
>FTR with Karma
>Glorious Evolution with Viktor
>Go Hard
Without Eye of the dragon or good big mana cards to discount I have no fricking clue how to use him now. I think my only option is equipment to abuse momentous choice.
akshan yi will be vaguely playable, probably about as good as any of those 3.
and 1 mana coins are free flow procs so it's going to be a lot easier to hit (if only there were still any flow cards still in the game)
Alright found my Master Yi deck. Turns out stylish shot is an excellent flow trigger. And Samira's rally is very easy to pull off and extra deadly with a leveled Yi on board.
>all the champs they rotated were champions that were either too good (ezreal,irelia) or too shitty (zilean,elise)
>basically all their attempt at balancing the game were worthless
bravo riot
>shitty (zilean,elise)
I wouldn't say Elise wasn't good, she just wasn't much of a champion. It was to the point where there's a solid argument not to level her.
Since she's rotated what the go to deck for newbies then?
elites probably
newbie here
the goto deck is having zero cards and playing path until rito gets their shit together
>killed xerath/zilean and all of their support so I can't play landmark control anymore
>xerath got removed from the game before they gave him a special effect for his triggers
A-at least I can still play Yhin or Jhannie control... right?
>jhannie control
what in the goddamn ?
Enemy can't play unites or spells if his nexus is at 0
controlling face is best control (and you can't spell it without trolling)
>plunder is a healthy and popular archetype that's had modest meta presence since launch as a midrange combo deck
>largely uses cards that aren't played anywhere else
>and constantly updated and changed itself over time, incorporating new cards and support
>rotate its champ and half of its cards just to reprint the whole archetype as mindless aggro monkey burn to shill the new expansion
I'm upset
I'm genuinely so mad they are pushing ocs ahead of the line when ZERO of the champs I like are in the game. Insane shit.
Expect more, since Bigelwater only has 2 and Targon is depleted.
fricking finally
still can't believe this wasn't fixed last patch but at least now it finally is
Where is Dragon support?
Where is Ahri support?
Where is Ashe and Leblanc support?
Where is Darius support card that resolves all of his problems?
Where is Diana support?
Where is Kalista and Nocturne support?
Where is Malphite support?
Where is Shen support?
Where is Tryndamere own archetype where he doesnt give the Troll king the succ for once?
What Zed will do without Lulu and Hecarim, his frens?
>new cards don't have voice lines either
>Rubinzoo is now having to help work on path content
honestly how many years does this game have left before they pull the plug? Does it even have one more year left?
Games like this don't die a dramatic death, they just slowly bleed all their budget until they're struggling to make releases (like what's happening now) and then slowly circle the toilet for half a decade until their last whales finally quit. It's already "dead" in the ways that matter. We're in "dead mmo" maintenance mode now.
Actually in hindsight isn't it fricking wild that they can't afford VO anymore and yet just rotated hundreds of cards with tonnes of complete and varied voice lines? What a waste of budget and assets.
those cards still exist and will eventually rotate back to standard
You don't actually believe that do you?
I absolutely believe it. There's no way they would actually rotate champions permanently when the entire reason some people even pick up this game is to play their favorite league character.
From another anon in the other thread.
>Cards will rotate in and out every year
This is what they state but likely not what they will do. If cards were removed due to potential broken interactions or balance issues, why the frick would they ever add those cards back in?
Riot have already stated they will do periodic balance changes to Eternal but then also proceed to state it will only be when they can be bothered making a temporary competitive queue for the format which means the focus on Eternal is much, much less than Standard.
Eternal WILL become the dumping ground of cards Riot don't want to think about and will likely never want to think about again.
This.
If you look through the list of rotated cards, there are 4 key criteria for a card to be rotated:
>1.
The card is a failed design and riot doesn't know how to make it good, or is afraid that buffing it will make it cancer. This includes shit like Vlad, Braum etc. This is the most obviously compelling reason to rotate cards and what most people probably assumed would be the sole driving factor
>2.
The card or its mechanics are something riot straight up just doesn't want in the game, either because it creates problems or because players absolutely hated it. ie. Nab, Katarina, alt wincons, infinite combos etc. In this case, rotating cards is a substitute for nerfing them into unusability. They just want them out of the game because they're bad for the game.
>3.
The card is good and healthy and sees a relatively high playrate, so we're going to delete it and reprint it later so we don't have to come up with as many cards next expansion, or delete it specifically to make room for a new card we intend to essentially replace it. This is the bullshit that makes people angry, because it's been so blatant. This includes cards like Culling Strike (now in SI) Zap Sprayfin (now in PnZ), Draven (replaced by Samira) and so on.
>4.
"muh region pie." Basically cards that were rotated purely because Riot wants to limit what kinds of decks can exist within a certain region. Noxus, for example, lost all of its control tools, including extremely healthy ones like Flock and Whispered Words, because I guess Riot just doesn't want Noxus to be a control region. SI lost all of its pings because "it's not a ping region" etc. These choices range from questionable but arguably sensible (cutting Vile Feast from SI) to outright moronic (cutting every low cost invoke from Targon because "Targon should be weak early"). These are probably the choices that will be most harmful in the long run because it severely limits what kinds of decks can exist, and what region combos can exist.
I'll also add that #4 was already an issue like 2 years ago, and was one of the major criticisms with the game and one that drove the push to release more diverse cards across the different regions, like releasing a draw source in Noxus to support its control archetype, giving PnZ ways to play board instead of just pointing removal at it and passing, etc. We've effectively regressed to the state of the game we were stuck in ages ago, where region design was too restrictive and created a frustrating lack of options for deckbuilding.
Like every region is now narrowed to roughly 90 cards apiece, which is about how many the core regions had during beta, before release and Rising Tides added like 30 more to most of them. But in truth we have even fewer playable cards now than we did then, because so much of the releases since then have been strict autobuild archetypes, and in their mindless pursuit of hitting a specific card quota they've left several archetypes stranded with half of their cards rotated and no substitutes available, leaving the remaining cards unplayable despite dodging rotation. What deck does Sejuani go in now that 2/3 of the cards from her deck were rotated? What's Tryndamere's home now that FTR is gone? How do you play Azir now that both Irelia AND Xerath are gone? What's Malphite's deck now that Targon and Shurima have almost no landmarks between them, and most of his own package is gone? Where do you play Nasus now that Kindred, Thresh and half of the game's slay synergy is gone?
>What's Malphite's deck now that Targon and Shurima have almost no landmarks between them
I'm genuinely surprised they didn't rotate the 5 cost stun landmark that copies itself.
If you think champs like Yasuo, Ezreal or Katarina are going to be permanently gone you're out of your mind. Especially when they've already printed skins for them.
Ezreal was broken by the play/cast merge and has been living on borrowed time ever since. Riot is more likely to reprint these champs with entirely different mechanics than un-rotate them.
That's true, they did say Eternal would be a testing ground for big card reworks. For those specific cards that's welcome I say, frick Ezreal.
They aren't just going to butcher their cashcows though, a lot of the rotated champs are far too big to be gone forever.
Bold of you to assume that LoR's dwindling playerbase is still here for the sake of LoL champions, many of which haven't been playable since launch. The folks who are unironically invested in Yasuo or Katarina fricked off a year ago. Most people left are either playing regardless of the game's connection to League, or in spite of it.
That's a take for sure. The fact that Caitlyn has the most skins in the game is due to her LoR popularity then? Yasuo having two despite being practically unplayable is because the LoR players really love his playstyle?
Ezreal will return when characters that can speedlevel him like Sera get rotated out. He isn't a problem on his own.
>the only card Deep lost was vile feast
What should replace it? Heavy Metal? Honestly it feels like it's going to be very hard to replace ping 1, heal 1 summon a token. Nothing else, especially nothing in the 2 mana slot is going to cover both lightweight removal AND a maokai trigger on 4.
A lot of decks are gonna struggle to replace vile feast. Especially now that they decided efficient pings like it and pokey stick aren't something they want around.
It's dead anon
I get the impression that when the expansion actually launches later today, the meta is going to be dominated by cheesy midrange and aggro-combo bullshit. Make it Rain, Pirouette and Caustic are basically the only cost-effective deal-1s that are left in the game so most decks are just going to get run over by swarm lists with no good way to punish low hp statlines.
Pretty much, in the beta people were playing yesterday all the best decks were different versions of Samira aggro.
That's also because coins are bugged beyond belief though.
It's amazing that no one tested a coin vs coin deck.
It was tested tho, yesterday
It was "free QA" day
They had the exact same bug in the past with Darkness. Riot's just phoning this game in at this point. You watch, on launch today the bug won't be fixed and they'll just have a "known issues" message in the client.
Early access usually isn't a good indication of things to come, because everyone wants to play the new cards. You're not facing the same shit you'd face on live.
I do think Samira is transparently overtuned but it's also really easy for a 2/2 to good when nobody is playing mystic shot.
I can fix Freljord
RIOT LOVES ME THIS I KNOW
FOR THE BLOGPOST TELLS ME SO
>xpac goes live
>face samira/fixx autobuild 3 times in a row
>they always have Samira and multiple copies of 1 mana sharpsight on 2
>they always flip Samira by 5 and then rally on 5
Unironically dead on arrival. Nobody's playing coins while this aggro monkey is as overtuned as she is.
Is the coin big at least fixed?
no one fricking knows because the servers don't work lmao
its fixed
Holy shit, yeah Samira is insane. You can't even reliably remove her because all out is just 1 mana to give her +2/+2. And it's so easy for her to rally.
does this mean the only way to contest anything is to build a more threatening board?
will she force the meta into having a beefy early board? midrange/demacia time?
No. She plays a mix of well-stated units she cheats mana/tempo on via plunder, and elusives that just swing over the board and kill you with rallies. I don't think playing a bigger board and matching her tempo is possible right now since her whole archetype cheats tempo, and they rotated every good midrange card to compete with her.
Samira's design makes sense in a world where prenerf Kayne/Aatrox exists but in her current form she feels like a yugioh deck while the rest of the game is playing pre-Rising Tides runeterra.
>Rotate a ton of cards to preserve region identity
>But also decide to give noxus a new form of unit protection
>It's also tied to their brand new super aggressive champion
Bravo riot
Yeah MTG game designers be like that.
Is not rare
It's not subtle
They released 2 mana +2/2 and then nerfed it because it was too good
Then they released a 1 mana +2 or +2 and it instantly became the best combat trick ever released
Now they give us 1 mana +2/2 but put it in the region that's not supposed to have protection with their new super aggressive champion that wins the game if you don't kill them on 2.
It's not accidental. Riot knows how strong buffing hp is, and knows full well how good 1 mana +2 hp is, and knows damn well that this doesn't fit in noxus at all. They did it anyways because Samira is supposed to be broken and you're supposed to play her and talk about her and praise Rubin for designing her. I'd say "it's all business" but riot is obviously not making any money off this bullshit. It's all ego.
>Samira is supposed to be broken and you're supposed to play her and talk about her and praise Rubin for designing her
Lmao you might be onto something. She's the path freebie champion too.
to be fair she is super hot and probably a casual magnet
is it worth pissing off the hardcore audience for it? maybe yes
Why is everyone saying the new cards don't have VO? All of them are constantly jabbering when I play. Hell, they bothered to give the champs voice lines with rotated cards just for Eternal.
only a few of the new cards have voice lines. some like elegant edge don't.
I feel like it's the other way around. Elegant Edge doesn't, but every other card from this expac never stops talking to the point they clip into level animations.
>you can still get rotated cards and champs from rewards track
i'm glad all my pulls are a bunch of cards only usable in eternals now.
yeah this is really stupid
doesn't feel very good when you open your ranked rewards prism chests and it's 80% eternal cards
lmao
Riot is handling this game like it's pay2pack when everything's free
probably because they might come back to standard at one point but also because filtering out the eternal cards would take too much effort and it would also break the game somehow
Joke is on you, they just don't care
so what're they doing with starter decks? like, the SI/noxus one is mostly gone now. are there new ones? are they sending new players to eternal?
they didn't even bother to separate eternal cards from standard cards in rewards. I doubt they even thought about this at all.
Yep, just opened the weekly chest and managed to open a bunch of rotated rares and a lux.
>sett karma deck
Okay I take it back, Id rather have to play against fizz Samira all the time than have karma ever be viable again.
Also it seems mogwai returned to the game.
ladder is doompilling me
I thought rotation would mean tons of new innovative decks, but its just the same shit as always. Except now you can't play half the mechanics of each region and all the fun memey decks are gone.
that's what i meant
Well, it's pretty early to say, but it does seem there's some experimentation going on. Like Caitlyn of all champs looks to have a number of promising decks. Though really I just don't understand their thoughts process for this patch, Samira being very overturned aside most other decks doing well is pretty much everything good from last patch that happened to not lose much during rotation. Regions like freljord have been completely gutted, and shurima is now the akshan region because they rotated everything else good but decided to keep him for who knows what reason. Maybe it'll improve in a few days or after a hotfix for Samira, since all out really needs a quick nerf.
>Samira being very overtuned aside most other decks doing well is pretty much everything good from last patch that happened to not lose much during rotation
>tfw too ESL to understand this
My bad, should have added some commas. I mean other than Samira/fizz, the decks that are doing well right now are just decks that were good before rotation. Specially ones that didn't have many of its cards rotated like Quinn Gwen.
>everything good from last patch that happened to not lose much during rotation
well, yeah. only, what, two regions got new cards?
I thought with a bunch of the usual aggro burn shit leaving that there'd be more room for new decks or old tier 3 decks to flourish, but the new elusive aggro stuff with Samira feels really oppressive. Mainly because of fricking All Out.
How did he get away with it?
Aggro burn stays, old tier 3 decks were rotated because "they couldn't find a spot in LoR" (translation: we didn't even attempt to make them playable).
>"they couldn't find a spot in LoR" (translation: we didn't even attempt to make them playable).
ofc 10+40 new cards every 3 FRICKING months is NOT an acceptable release in today's TCG standards.
It should be at least 80 new core cards every 2 months + 30-60 new cards from set boosters(sometimes) + structure decks for some older champs with new cards to support them
This will help support pet and rouge deck players a lot
Half of them don't even need support, they just need adjustments.
If you mean LoL tier of "changing everything every month" then no
I didn't say to change them every month, I said to adjust them so they aren't dead on arrival.
Old cards dont sell, "LoL Babby's first card game"
Cards don't need to sell, they give them away for free.
>Cards don't need to sell
...and thats one of the main reasons this game failed
No, being f2p is one of the only reasons the game survived this long.
>being f2p is one of the only reasons the game survived this long.
ahah too bad they forgot how to make else where good.
btw this new pass sucks ass
>ahah too bad they forgot how to make else where good.
That has nothing to do with what you were b***hing about.
But the thing is: i want more and creative cards(that arent just copy and paste clones of rotated ones) and i refuse to take adjustments as "real content".
Riot should churn out more cards as content faster, and right now, LoR is shriveling up. I wouldnt be surprised if the same happened for upcoming LoL fighting game.
That also has nothing to do with what you were b***hing about.
idc i want some small adjustments+ new cards for my favourite champs
BBG is getting pounded by Fizz/Samira decks and crying about the lack of elusive counters
he's considering going back to TFT, kinda sad です
I mean, he gets this way everytime he starts to lose, I watched him last patch quit after losing to trundle/liss and anivia and complain about how they deserve to be nerfed.
oh did he really? i remember him being a lot more positive when the game was fresh but after his year of absencehe seemed kinda broken and easily frustrated in general
maybe it's better he quits for good
>jack sucks
well thats a disappointment, he looked a lot more fun than samira or sett. maybe if he had better support cards he might have had an actual decent deck.
Jack's an honest midrange beatdown card in a degenerate yugioh combo meta. He would be good if the game was sane right now but we're back in beta bullshit where all the strongest decks just kill you out of hand at burst speed on turn x and there's no way to interact with them.
kinda crazy that caitlyn is an actual champion now, if only because shes basically the only option for some decks now.
Now that they deleted every ping from the game, caustic and flashbombs are the only real way to punish decks for playing a million 1hp units.
running around with a badgerbear+dragons deck and it's so easy to stop samira fizz decks
actually fun spoiling the deck for others
Where do I find standard decks? Runeterra.ar is full of eternal decks mixed with standard ones, shit is unusable.
just wait a little while, I think that site updates in chunks so in a bit it will probably be mostly standard decks
try app.lormaster.com
https://twitter.com/PlayRuneterra/status/1641651533485072385
they're gonna explain on the 4th their reasons for the specifics on what did and did not rotate.
better have some good reasons.
>if you aren't facing samira/fizz's constant aggro onslaught where they never seem to run out of cards
>then you just face sett karma who stall until 10 mana where they play 30 mana worth of stuff and generate a whole bunch of value while obliterating your board
>or you just face a deck from last patch that didn't even lose any cards from rotation
they seriously fricked up this patch, it's like more of the same but worse and now I can't play any of them off-meta decks from before because they rotated a whole bunch of shit out.
the expansion needed to have triple the amount of new cards
They bit off more than they could chew with the game's quality. Like the portraits for units are unironically really high quality. Like rather than just being a small little profile shot or something, it's a full widescreen splash with multiple characters and detailed action in the background. That shit isn't cheap. And now that the budget's slipped we're at the point where they can only afford 30 or so new cards every 3 months and can't even afford voicing for half of them. There's really no getting around that this started as a prestige project riot was prepared to throw money at, and once that embarrassing pedophile turned prestige to shame now they just have no recourse but to slowly strangle their expensive game one budget cut at a time.
i still think that they view the game as a concept art playground to springboard ideas into their mmorpg, so LoR just gets the scraps of what needs to be done anyway and the available budget is used to add the finishing touches to make it cohesive
rate my headcanon / cope
>xerath/zilean can control and hold off aggro decently enough with proper hexmine field usage
>can remove low level threats through protection with time bombs
>delete the entire deck and all of its cards despite it being a tier 3 deck that required big brain and good draws to do its game plan
So fricking fun. Fricking stupid Black folk. They can't fricking do anything right and instead of trying to address issues they just delete them. We have to wait three fricking months for 30 cards that are "do thing and get a counter" while every mildly interesting archetype (landmarks, whatever Jhin is) starve to death or get outright removed from the fricking game.
>aragornn just stomps everyone at the brawl with jack/j4/quinn
>he was even running angel
>work my ass off slowly building a board with leona stuns vs leveled jayce+heimer, sitting at 3hp vs 20 the entire time
>barely stay alive long enough with stuns to get to a turn where i can even *try* going for a swing
>but their ferros financier asspulled a ruination earlier and just flushes everything down the drain while giving them free development on the same turn via turrets
truly the peak of gaming
gonna kill myself out of this game
good luck to you guys
after finally getting aatrox under control, they forget to rotate any of his cards. then this happens.
a BIG part of why this happened is karma. the only way to consistently beat that c**t is with rallies, and Tumble on a scout is the best rally in the game
I really can't believe they didn't rotate karma, literally the set they were releasing just then had coins in it and they still decided to leave her in.
>go to sleep and go to work
>come back
>last post was by me
they really fricked up this time
Everyone was in the /vg/ thread but it rotated.
oh, my bad then
We had a thread in /vg/ going until /vg/ hit "10 minutes and thread falls off" hours
I made a nice OP, too. frick.
anyway, play 3 badgerbears over catch in vaynetrox, you'll beat samirafizz
So anyone who likes jack (and angel) and actually wants to play him in a good midrange deck instead of a coin generator for seraphine, aragornn used this deck for the brawl and sweeped pretty much everyone.
I had my doubts but this deck has really been performing for me. Thanks for sharing
no problem
The good thing about this board is we hit bump limit days ago and it's still only page 7. Meanwhile no one posts on /vg/ for 1 and a half hours at the wrong time and it 404s.
/lorg/ doesn't have enough avatar posters and coomers obsessively posting about their waifu like every other general. Truly too cerebral and honest of a general.
>Rotation killed deck varie-ACK!
>-ty
The facts are right here.
>Dude i cant play my shitty petdecks in ranked like
very cool anymore: im gonna kms rn instead of adapting to the meta and homebrew some creative good decks btw i still believe Freljord/Targon got fricking murdered
>my shitty petdecks in ranked like
very cool
Those are the starter decks you moron.
very cool
do feel properly welcomed to the game
any particular reason i can't discard sion here?
Glitch, it happens from time to time.
I just beat approximately 30 flashbombs going off against me, on a game where all I did before turn 4 was play a valor.
I fricking love vaynetrox
who the frick thought printing ephemeral fricking halloweds was OK? jesus christ did they not see somehow that hallowed is a on-death trigger?
You'd rather they weren't ephemeral?
so I could actually play around them instead of getting hallowed tringgers forced into my ass? what do you think
Yeah, you wouldn't. They'd still be treated the same because they're basically free except they don't expire on pass pass.
you asked a rethorical question and then replied to the answer
Because the answer was dumb.
do you know what a rhetorical question is
Yes, and you replied with a dumb answer.
Also it wasn't rhetorical.
ok, so you don't know.
A rhetorical question is a question you don't expect to be answered, I did want it answered and your answer was dumb.
why did you want it answered? what could you possibly expect besides a meme reply to your meme question?
A real response. If he doesn't like them being ephemeral then there must be a reason he wants them to be non-ephemeral.
then you should've asked a real question
It was a real question.
>rotate vile feast
>leave foyer in
oh, so they don't playtest at all. good to know
It's worse than that
They did know hallowed were going to be a problem, they said it themselves, but did not nerf them in literally any way
>source: my dad
Frick off, they talk about it in either one of interviews or one of dev blogs
>literally can't lose to karma or samirafizz
>still can't climb
this is literally RPS: the game
Thats it: release the region-free ranked format.
Tired of this "each color must have X specific pros and X specific cons (expect for those 2 regions loved by the devs)"
Official list of vayntrox matchups:
Lurk: put quick attack on a challenger or lose
Samirafizz: Draw badgerbear or lose
Karma: rally more than 0 times or lose
Literally any deck with a frostbite in it: lose
Foyer: lose
Other stuff: could go either way
wtf
why arent people playing a harpoon in aatrox
xolaani is a meme in this list anyway
Harpoon is by far the shittiest Darkin weapon.
so? your only other card draw option is attacking with an 8-cost unit
you still don't run it because fleeting draw is inherently awful in any deck where you don't want to dump your hand.
that's just not true at all.
I may have lost my mind
>people start running aatrox quinn vayne and quinn gwen to counter fizz samira and sett karma.
>gwen quinn also counters aatrox quinn vayne so it ends up being the strongest pick/counter pick in the game
actually it just looks like scouts are really powerful again, all of quinn's decks have great winrates
Just play something else to counter both decks.
>galio udyr
is this a real deck or just something only doing well because of low play numbers?
1k isn't really "low"
I assume with lack of good pings 0/5 broadwing with regen is actually not bad
>hungry burger and gate guardian get support like 20 years later
>meanwhile cool and literally not even that strong cards like xerath get killed
haha wow
Malphite is actually being used for once though. 13th highest winrate seems low, but that's just because there are like 7 decks that are some combination of Aatrox/Vayne/Quinn in different amounts.
aatrox will never beat a frostbite
burger and gate guardian get support like 20 years la-ACK!
>triple no-cost negate
holy fricking zazed, even if it's targetted
that's good protection, gatechads eating good
>win game, feel normal
>lose game, feel bad
You're only feeling the relief of not losing.
that seems underwhelming for a video game
just who wrote aatrox's cards? World ender says it only assimilates followers, yet it also assimilates darkin champions.
In addition, you can turn followers INTO champions with the spell, as if the champions were merely units forms of their signature weapons. Maybe true in the lore, but not mechanics-wise.
most baffling is the fact that nobody seems to notice or care
That means it can't turn regular champions into darkin.
>you can turn followers INTO champions with the spell
That's turning them into the darkin weapon. Note how Kayn is turned into his red form but never his blue form, his blue form is human that won against the darkin (it's also shit but that's neither here nor there).
>That's turning them into the darkin weapon.
huh. that's weird. I never get the option to play aatrox as a 1 mana weapon on turn 2. weird.
moron
That's because you can't tell the difference between a weapon and a unit, moron.
Do you get off on being stupid?
Can't argue with these. I am now utterly convinced that aatrox's weapon is the same thing as darkin equipment, thanks a lot guys, I kneel as I finally see the light.
there's nothing funnier that dropping a badgerbear in front of a samirafizz player when you're not even playing elites
>try the 4* adventure with TK
>brick every game
>draw a champ 2/4 games
>lose to Jhin
It's like they want me to use Jinx.
Oh, forgot
>went Zed support
>drew both of his 3 cost transfer ephemeral spells every game
is this the worst expansion yet?
about to say frick no that's still shadowlands, but i am in the wrong thread
>play against Shitmira/Jizz as Jack/PnZ
>starts shitting out elusives
>he doesn't know.jpeg
>avatar of the tides, GE, backalley bar
>spend a whole minute playing spells
>aggrocuckie surrenders because a turn is taking more than 2 seconds
Heh
>lurk player instapredicts
>no reksai
>manifest passage unearned to kill pyke
I have peaked as a player
sorry aatroxchads but I'm just gonna play norraveigar. Too many morons thinking frostbites are playable.
I haven't seen a single Freljord deck with that new Bulwark card.
they rotated braum and vlad, ofc you haven't
i currently have sixteen different standard freljord cards, of which exactly two have two copies with the rest having one
I have never had less fun playing this game
In all the past shit metas like irellia and the bandle apocalypse you could still play fun decks, but now you have to play the same generic schlock as the rest of ladder.
feels like I'm just playing the same few matches over and over and over again.
>but now you have to play the same generic schlock as the rest of ladder.
>feels like I'm just playing the same few matches over and over and over again.
That's literally intended btw :*~~*~~*~~
They said they want the "new cards to shape the meta" A.K.A play the new shit bigot!!!
I'm curious what the "generic schlock" you're being forced to play is. Having a fun viable kegs deck is great.
>phantom prankster
>counterfeit copies
>glorious evolution
>any and all viable landmarks
>lost riches
>howling abyss
>iceborn legacy
>shellfolk
>shiraza
>mimic
>timelines
>entire archetypes like ephemeral and self damage
>all the champs that have never seen the meta once but were rotated anyways
They went through and removed every unique play pattern they could. What's left is 10 aggro decks, a handful of midrange decks and the 2 playable control decks.
The closest thing to a combo deck right now is samira fizz, or maybe illaoi swain and even then, those two are entirely board based.
if you have an interesting combo deck with a unique wincon, please post it. I'm at my wits end building warmothers call and avatar of the tides+mirror mage shitbrews.
>if you have an interesting combo deck with a unique wincon
Riot doesn't want that, they want you to summon big men and open attack
You're playing the wrong game, in the eyes of the devs
Samira/Riven and Sera/Jack for combo decks. Taliyah/Malph for landmarks. The double damage curse Renekton decks are just better Shiraza decks. Senna/Sett soul cleave for real jank.
I'm kind of confused since most of the decks you listed have been dogshit for a long time and nothing more than bottom tier memes. If you want to go play bottom tier memes, Eternal is right there. It's not like those decks were doing well on ladder before rotation anyway. I don't get why people are upset they can't play their weak petdecks specifically on standard ladder, just go to the format for it. There are plenty of people playing Eternal.
Yes they were all shit but I got masters every season playing my jank trash. Going against strong ladder shit and tuning it to have a better shot in the popular matchups is the fun of this game for me.
And yeah when ranked eternal comes out I'm just going to switch, but no one tries in norms and I'm not losing my masters streak, so in standard I stay.
senna/sett sounds fun though thanks for the idea.
>I don't get why people are mad that they can't use the cards they like
>Why would anyone play something they like instead of the current top tier deck?
Also reminder that landmark control could have been a thing but instead they decided to completely remove landmarks as an archetype from the game.
Except for ryze, he gets to keep them :^)
What the frick are you even talking about?
>can't use the cards they like
Yes, they can. They're in Eternal. The cards are right there with a big pool of other players using those cards. What's the problem?
>Why would anyone play something they like instead of current top tier deck?
The question is why don't you just go play what you like instead of complaining that you can't play what you like in one format in one pool (ranked)? Especially when the complaint wasn't that there was a specific deck they wanted to play, it was "I'm being forced to play what everyone else is playing". There's literally nothing stopping anyone from going into ranked standard and making some shitty homebrew built around some meme card. They just have a smaller pool of cards to do it with. No one is forcing you to play top tier meta decks.
And people complaining about landmarks being removed are ignoring that Malphite is actually good right now because midrange decks can't deal with the double Inviolus Rex power spike and Malphite. It's just a different archetype than the Xerath/Ziggs/Zilean/Arnie stuff. It was the much worse of the two and it's actually working now after rotation.
>It's good now that 60% of the cards got removed from the game
Oh you two are doomposting trolls. My bad, carry on.
Eternal is just a dump. Confirmed by the fact they admitted using it as a cope for not being able to balance the game + unnerfing cards that didn’t need it just because they entered eternal.
Of course you’ll ignore this just like you have ignored every other statement and signal because you’re a shill or an actual moron
>Yes, they can. They're in Eternal.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
>unironically suggesting a malphite or renekton deck
yeah....can't play a meta where both swindle AND karma are popular
see ya next path
>6 cards in my that kill teemo on turn 1
>I start drawing puffcaps before I even see one of them
This deck always falls off halfway through the season.
they removed almost all the spell removals which was this deck's biggest weakness
>karma is the most meta deck in the game
>already saw two unyielding spirits in one session
I am seething like I have never seethed before. I don't even care about the about of the game past that point
Imagine the seethe if they rotated Deep
They literally carved up Bilgewater as a region to cut around Deep. Deep is the only deck bilgewater has ever had that's functional without being such a fricking meta disaster that they end up nerfing every card in it. More than that, it's the only deck bilgewater has ever had that people actually like.
By riot's own criteria for rotation, Deep probably should have been rotated since it's basically been a consistent t2 deck with tournament and ladder presence since the game's official launch, but they decided to make an exception for it because they knew people liked it too much and gutted Plunder instead so they could reprint it.
when bw released for the first time the theme was deep, plunder, and nab iirc, it's a shame they gave up on all of them except plunder (which doens't even feel like og plunder anymore) and made it into the shitspamming wide elusive region
Nami ruined Bilgewater, but it's just a symptom of 'pro' players crying fricking endlessly about nab until Riot was obligated to gut it. Bilgewater's identity got carved away little by little until all that was left was autobuild archetypes and degenerate elusive combo.
>scroll through the meta list
>digusted by literally every deck, dont wanna play any of them
do i just quit until next patch? wtf am i supposed to do in the game if nothing in the meta is appealing
That's what I did many expansions ago. This game can be fun in short bursts ever once in a while but to play it consistently I have to have different and fun ways to play. Unfortunately it seems it's not that kind of game.
Maybe try playing single player until they 'fix it'?
The frick is it with all these weird rek'sai decks going around. I've seen everything from kayle rek'sai to mono shurima sun disc rek'sai.
>rock hopper has a bad trade
>open attacks into quick attack
Every fricking time.
Reminder to tune in and shit on devs
https://www.twitch.tv/legendsofruneterra
Not tuning in would also shit on devs.
No? They wouldn't care if it's for 10 people or 100
Not playing the game would shit on them, doing it myself and can't recommend enough
Yes. They would be disheartened that their game is dead.
They have player data, they couldn't care less about stream numbers
Streams are advertisements, that's why they spend man hours to do them.
Devs streams are for existing community community
>the only reason akshan didn't get rotated is because they were already getting rid of everything else and didn't want to completely screw shurima
>freljord was gutted because they unironically thought it was too good at a bunch of shit
>a bunch of shit got rotated because they will eventually add cards like 3-6 months from now
They couldn't even give good reasons for the garbage rotation
To the surprise of nobody
Excuse streams like this are just to give ammo for the brainless shills on reddit that will shout down all criticism. This PR just exists for the sake of astroturfing official riot spaces.
They rotated Sivir instead of Akshan because Akshan is a Rubin champ and Riot is a black hole of designer ego.
Freljord was gutted because the whole region is cancer ramp decks where you afk until you play your "I WIN" button, and Plunder. They killed the former because it's been a fricking mistake since beta that everyone has constantly hated on them for not backtracking on. They gutted Plunder because they were reprinting Plunder: Rubin flavoured and needed to warp the game to create designspace for his new pet champ.
And as everyone already predicted: the main factor motivating rotation was just creating space for Riot to reprint the same cards in future expansions, because they have so few designers left on their payroll that they can't afford to come up with 30 new cards ideas every quarter of a year.
>freljord was bad because of ramp
>the ramp was left mostly intact
i thought rotation would mean a small list of 20 to maybe 40 or so
I expected like 100-150
Obvious problematic children - like they said
Some champions and package that just doesn't work to be reworked - like they said
I did not expect 60% of all cards getting binned
>ashe leblanc is the most played deck in the game, with one of the highest winrates
pretty funny that it rose so hard as a counter-pick that now people will now have to start counter picking it
the rps meta will never end, people will play the greediest control with their 50 mana karma turns, then people will play demacia scout to counter it because theres no other way, traditional aggro is dead, Then peopl will play frostbite to counter demacia, then it will loop back all over. Good work riot
that's just the reality of card games
there will always be slow-mid/combo-fast
if one gets nerfed completely out of the meta then the game will feel terrible to play until the missing archetype bounces back through innovation or buffs
There's a new thread btw