I've only dipped my feet in and had a few games, but I haven't seen anything egregious so far. The worst balance wise has been that Leman Russes seem like the best tanks you can get for their buck, and work as excellent anti-tank. But that's offset by them being crushed by any opponent who gets into melee with them and their anti-infantry being rather poor, so it's not like you can just spam as many of them as possible and get away with it.
> solar planes all shit on marine equivalents, while being cheaper > best combat infantry in the game as solar > infiltrate just straight ends the game (oh I start on every objectI've and it's progressively scored... if you can't take my 300 points of infantry [in a building] off by turn 2 you auto lose, but if you do, you still probably lose) > solar infiltrating ogres into a building 4" from you, or on the objective > solar infiltrate AA turrets mid board so you can't use the only decent Marine vehicle, the thunderhawk > laborious tracking of individual stands for each formations break test > infantry grossly undercost and either too easy to kill (in the open) or insanely difficult to dig out (in a building) > marine tanks just worse than all guard tanks > Leman russ vanquisher tank the best vehicle in the game > aircraft hit on 6s, lmao just spam dice at everything > assaults weird and badly implemented, once again 100 points of ogres will kill a Warlord titan (615 points) > if you dont have rend you lose combat > win a combat, you are left out in the open, can't even consolidate (unless ONE Legion, BA) > 'Rhino rush' bullshit from how dedicated transports work, herds of rhinos charging tanks to tie them up in CC > special rules on special rules on special rules on special rules (same names as rules from systems you play, but they do something else)
Just play Net Epic Armageddon.
I have zero desire to play it as the default combined arms game, like
> solar planes all shit on marine equivalents, while being cheaper > best combat infantry in the game as solar > infiltrate just straight ends the game (oh I start on every objectI've and it's progressively scored... if you can't take my 300 points of infantry [in a building] off by turn 2 you auto lose, but if you do, you still probably lose) > solar infiltrating ogres into a building 4" from you, or on the objective > solar infiltrate AA turrets mid board so you can't use the only decent Marine vehicle, the thunderhawk > laborious tracking of individual stands for each formations break test > infantry grossly undercost and either too easy to kill (in the open) or insanely difficult to dig out (in a building) > marine tanks just worse than all guard tanks > Leman russ vanquisher tank the best vehicle in the game > aircraft hit on 6s, lmao just spam dice at everything > assaults weird and badly implemented, once again 100 points of ogres will kill a Warlord titan (615 points) > if you dont have rend you lose combat > win a combat, you are left out in the open, can't even consolidate (unless ONE Legion, BA) > 'Rhino rush' bullshit from how dedicated transports work, herds of rhinos charging tanks to tie them up in CC > special rules on special rules on special rules on special rules (same names as rules from systems you play, but they do something else)
Just play Net Epic Armageddon.
say NE:A is just a better system and already has a Heresy conversion floating around.
I *might* give it a go if the Big Robot Battle Mode in the upcoming supplement is any good, because as much as I enjoy AT for what it is I also enjoy ickle Titans and I want to put more of them on the table. But it'll be exclusively for that - big titan v titan battles - not anything else.
>Top
One mold >Bottom
Six molds
I get why you want Xenos too but GW evidently wants the 8mm specialist games to use as few molds as possible, and making those the Imperium or recolored Imperium massively cuts down on the number of molds they need.
Don't care, won't play it, none of my friends will play it. Your argument is flawed. >1 mold that sells no product in my area because nobody will be able to get games with it, even the Imperium/Chaos players know it'll be too hard to find consistent games when the pool is reduced to just them and missing the other 70% of factions >vs 6 molds that actually sell product because now everyone can play the same game and the scene reaches sustainable critical mass of players
The idea that xenos are a small minority is a total meme only ever parroted on the internet. In my 20+ years of being in the 40k hobby, all xenos combined outnumbers everyone else easily.
The Horus Heresy game should have always been Epic scale. it's much more fitting for the scale of battles during the Heresy, the amount of Titans around at the time, and the fact that most armies looked the same but different colors.
Legions Imperialis should be the only Horus Heresy game
It was a repackage of an older ruleset that got rushed out so badly they fricked up the counters in the box, had shit casting on the infantry models that are the poster child for their franchises, is an otherwise similar hype-pump-dump GW scam and there are already 3+ better versions of the game with their own communities.
It was rigged from the start.
Jesus Christ, have a nice day. You people don't need to constantly be asking "le gaem ded??" every chance you get. Use your eyes, it's not hard to find people discussing the game that just came out a few months ago. I doubt I'd ever even consider this game, but I would gladly permaban every one of you from the internet if it meant an end to these threads.
Correct. The "full size army" anons refer to is a completely fictional point set by GW. Its really striking too since the game very obviously plays better at around 1500 points.
Wouldn't be able to tell you, I haven't looked at ToW release beyond checking if it had fixed the one issue I've always had with that game, being that it doesn't do maneuvers well at all.
For IL the issue is that at 3000 the game really bogs down into a slog and its really striking how much its back and forth acting-reacting.
How many models do you need for marine vs solar 1500p armies? Two core boxes and a couple of extra units?
Whats the best army size for the current fanmade Epic rule sets?
2 cores should be comfortably 1500, without the titans. Also there's extra models on the main marine sprue once you get two sets you can add at least 1 extra stand of tact, plas and maybe missiles support & terms, not 100% sure for these last ones. Not much but its better than nothing.
Right now I'd buy 1 core and 1 additional Legion marine sprue. The game leans a lot toward infantry, and I think its pretty much settled Marines wont get new infantry in the next release.
Solar have the same value if not a bit more in the starter box, so you'll get 1500 or a bit over, with two starters for sure. That's without the Titans.
I haven't checked NetEpic rules in a few years, but iirc getting to a point where its fun to play would be very expensive paying IL prices. I'll have to come back to you on that one.
which brings me to
> solar planes all shit on marine equivalents, while being cheaper > best combat infantry in the game as solar > infiltrate just straight ends the game (oh I start on every objectI've and it's progressively scored... if you can't take my 300 points of infantry [in a building] off by turn 2 you auto lose, but if you do, you still probably lose) > solar infiltrating ogres into a building 4" from you, or on the objective > solar infiltrate AA turrets mid board so you can't use the only decent Marine vehicle, the thunderhawk > laborious tracking of individual stands for each formations break test > infantry grossly undercost and either too easy to kill (in the open) or insanely difficult to dig out (in a building) > marine tanks just worse than all guard tanks > Leman russ vanquisher tank the best vehicle in the game > aircraft hit on 6s, lmao just spam dice at everything > assaults weird and badly implemented, once again 100 points of ogres will kill a Warlord titan (615 points) > if you dont have rend you lose combat > win a combat, you are left out in the open, can't even consolidate (unless ONE Legion, BA) > 'Rhino rush' bullshit from how dedicated transports work, herds of rhinos charging tanks to tie them up in CC > special rules on special rules on special rules on special rules (same names as rules from systems you play, but they do something else)
Just play Net Epic Armageddon.
> "Space Marines are a very high complexity army which requires players to perfectly know their army, that of the enemy, the scenario and you essentially win on turn 2 during your drop pod assault or else you don't. Only the greatest tactical mind can successfully run this list." > - Net Epic players > "HURR DURR MARINES SUCKS SO HARD IN LI WHY ARE YOU PLAYING THIS GAME?" > - Also Net Epic players
lol
3 months ago
Anonymous
What about solar or the same for netepic?
Each side in the LI box has 500 points w/o the Titans. Warhounds are 330 points.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The Solar Auxilia side has more, it's like 650 without a warhound. I've been playing 1k point games with just the solar aux and a warhound (ignoring the 30% max on support assets to fit the warhound in).
3 months ago
Anonymous
Messing with legion builder it looks like 590 + an extra command stand. Either way you aren't hitting 1500 w/ 2 boxes and you end up with 2 warhound titans (assuming you split the boxes with someone) that don't make a lot of sense to use together. GW really needed to make the models cheaper, they should have been ~$30-$35 boxes, not $50. I will be interested to see how the unit boxes are selling in a year.
This is probably GWs most expensive game to play an average army in a "standard" (according to GW, 3k points) point game. IMO it's a tough sell to convince someone to drop upwards of $1k for an army you squint at.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Honestly, it would be almost affordable if there was more non titan big stuff to play.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Woa do you really need that many models to play an enjoyable game of netepic? LI seems to work best at 1500p or 2000p which seems quite reasonable.
What about the other epic rule sets? How well can those scale between different army sizes?
Why were Death Guard of all legions the poster-children for this game? I guess it’s not unprecedented since they were the Ultramarines’ designated opponent in 8th, but I’d probably remember this game existed if it had some brighter colours, like the Imperial Fists did for HH.
Probably comes from the Solar Auxilia. They're going to be in darker colours, so ideally their opponent should be lighter to provide a nice contrast. And of those:
Can't use Fists because they're already on the 28mm box.
Wolves are grey. Too close to the SAux scheme.
White Scars - pure white might actually be TOO bright.
World Eaters - send your painting team mad picking out all the shoulder pads. Might also look a bit messy in a photo.
One other thing to note for the Scars and WEaters is that white seems to be allocated to Tau as a 'box art' colour at the moment, and we know GW likes easy visual differentiation for the shelves.
The HH DG/Pallid Hand color scheme is ideal for being gritty and grim looking while also showing off detail and taking to weathering well.
It's the same reason desert vehicles are so popular with WWII modelers.
It was stillborn, like many of the games GW is frantically shitting out nowadays. Someone should teach GW about basic childcare, that if they give birth to something, they should at least support and feed the little fricker, allowing it to grow for a while, instead of what they currently do, drop it immediately so they can shit out the next one in line.
You must be new to GW games. The specialist games today are getting way more support than they did in the past. It used to be you got 1 maybe 2 printings of a boxed game then if you were really lucky an additional release of something. Today at least they continue supporting the things they release, but they are stretching themselves too thin, they can't manufacture enough models to keep shelves stocked.
It's done its job, which is to let GW pick a fight with other manufaturers.
Prior to LI, all "epic scale" stuff was being bought second-hand or from other manufacturers or printed. The rules were all being downloaded for free. GW got no money from any of this and had no presence in the space.
Now, for what I imagine was a minimal outlay, GW are once again selling some people 6-8mm figures and rulebooks and scenery which are slightly (or a lot) physically larger than the competiton's.
This means that GW is back in their preferred position; they're selling the official, trademarked, "luxury-priced" current versions of "epic" miniatures, and next to them other manufacturer's figures look physically smaller and feel more like cheap knockoffs. They are also making at least some money from the product (since the designers, sculptors and rules writers were all minimally paid and told to use old material wherever possible). It's precisely the same as they did with Blood Bowl 2016 (down to changing the scale!), except that Blood Bowl was always a more popular game and got more resources in designing the ministures range.
The game may be dead in terms of online discussion and overall games played, but it's done its job.
No Ben, you just stopped talking about it all the time.
Yeah.
Piecemeal roll out, actively shit balance, and Net Epic Armageddon is simply better
I've only dipped my feet in and had a few games, but I haven't seen anything egregious so far. The worst balance wise has been that Leman Russes seem like the best tanks you can get for their buck, and work as excellent anti-tank. But that's offset by them being crushed by any opponent who gets into melee with them and their anti-infantry being rather poor, so it's not like you can just spam as many of them as possible and get away with it.
> solar planes all shit on marine equivalents, while being cheaper
> best combat infantry in the game as solar
> infiltrate just straight ends the game (oh I start on every objectI've and it's progressively scored... if you can't take my 300 points of infantry [in a building] off by turn 2 you auto lose, but if you do, you still probably lose)
> solar infiltrating ogres into a building 4" from you, or on the objective
> solar infiltrate AA turrets mid board so you can't use the only decent Marine vehicle, the thunderhawk
> laborious tracking of individual stands for each formations break test
> infantry grossly undercost and either too easy to kill (in the open) or insanely difficult to dig out (in a building)
> marine tanks just worse than all guard tanks
> Leman russ vanquisher tank the best vehicle in the game
> aircraft hit on 6s, lmao just spam dice at everything
> assaults weird and badly implemented, once again 100 points of ogres will kill a Warlord titan (615 points)
> if you dont have rend you lose combat
> win a combat, you are left out in the open, can't even consolidate (unless ONE Legion, BA)
> 'Rhino rush' bullshit from how dedicated transports work, herds of rhinos charging tanks to tie them up in CC
> special rules on special rules on special rules on special rules (same names as rules from systems you play, but they do something else)
Just play Net Epic Armageddon.
I have zero desire to play it as the default combined arms game, like
say NE:A is just a better system and already has a Heresy conversion floating around.
I *might* give it a go if the Big Robot Battle Mode in the upcoming supplement is any good, because as much as I enjoy AT for what it is I also enjoy ickle Titans and I want to put more of them on the table. But it'll be exclusively for that - big titan v titan battles - not anything else.
They strangled it in the fricking cradle by making it HH instead of 40k. GW never fricking learns.
This holy frick. I hate the heresy so much.
This
>Top
One mold
>Bottom
Six molds
I get why you want Xenos too but GW evidently wants the 8mm specialist games to use as few molds as possible, and making those the Imperium or recolored Imperium massively cuts down on the number of molds they need.
Don't care, won't play it, none of my friends will play it. Your argument is flawed.
>1 mold that sells no product in my area because nobody will be able to get games with it, even the Imperium/Chaos players know it'll be too hard to find consistent games when the pool is reduced to just them and missing the other 70% of factions
>vs 6 molds that actually sell product because now everyone can play the same game and the scene reaches sustainable critical mass of players
The idea that xenos are a small minority is a total meme only ever parroted on the internet. In my 20+ years of being in the 40k hobby, all xenos combined outnumbers everyone else easily.
Seems to be still on sale on the GW website.
The Horus Heresy game should have always been Epic scale. it's much more fitting for the scale of battles during the Heresy, the amount of Titans around at the time, and the fact that most armies looked the same but different colors.
Legions Imperialis should be the only Horus Heresy game
It was a repackage of an older ruleset that got rushed out so badly they fricked up the counters in the box, had shit casting on the infantry models that are the poster child for their franchises, is an otherwise similar hype-pump-dump GW scam and there are already 3+ better versions of the game with their own communities.
It was rigged from the start.
It's a nice source of models to play against better looking factions with more open rulesets.
BASED and TRUTHpilled.
Where is the big guy from?
no stock, no minis. Printer going brrrrrrrrrrr1. The game is pretty good.
Why are you such a useless FotM chasing little shit
Jesus Christ, have a nice day. You people don't need to constantly be asking "le gaem ded??" every chance you get. Use your eyes, it's not hard to find people discussing the game that just came out a few months ago. I doubt I'd ever even consider this game, but I would gladly permaban every one of you from the internet if it meant an end to these threads.
You would prefer for all games to die off?
The game is fun, but if you don't print your models the price for an army is absurd. $800-$1k for a full size army of 8mm models is pretty crazy.
How does that work out? I would just buy the starter and play on my kitchen table.
Correct. The "full size army" anons refer to is a completely fictional point set by GW. Its really striking too since the game very obviously plays better at around 1500 points.
Even 10th*spit* plays well at around 750-1000 pts.
I am guessing whfb is also less moronic when you just stick to oathmark sized unuts ie with similar frontages.
Wouldn't be able to tell you, I haven't looked at ToW release beyond checking if it had fixed the one issue I've always had with that game, being that it doesn't do maneuvers well at all.
For IL the issue is that at 3000 the game really bogs down into a slog and its really striking how much its back and forth acting-reacting.
How many models do you need for marine vs solar 1500p armies? Two core boxes and a couple of extra units?
Whats the best army size for the current fanmade Epic rule sets?
2 cores should be comfortably 1500, without the titans. Also there's extra models on the main marine sprue once you get two sets you can add at least 1 extra stand of tact, plas and maybe missiles support & terms, not 100% sure for these last ones. Not much but its better than nothing.
Right now I'd buy 1 core and 1 additional Legion marine sprue. The game leans a lot toward infantry, and I think its pretty much settled Marines wont get new infantry in the next release.
What about solar or the same for netepic?
Solar have the same value if not a bit more in the starter box, so you'll get 1500 or a bit over, with two starters for sure. That's without the Titans.
I haven't checked NetEpic rules in a few years, but iirc getting to a point where its fun to play would be very expensive paying IL prices. I'll have to come back to you on that one.
which brings me to
> "Space Marines are a very high complexity army which requires players to perfectly know their army, that of the enemy, the scenario and you essentially win on turn 2 during your drop pod assault or else you don't. Only the greatest tactical mind can successfully run this list."
> - Net Epic players
> "HURR DURR MARINES SUCKS SO HARD IN LI WHY ARE YOU PLAYING THIS GAME?"
> - Also Net Epic players
lol
Each side in the LI box has 500 points w/o the Titans. Warhounds are 330 points.
The Solar Auxilia side has more, it's like 650 without a warhound. I've been playing 1k point games with just the solar aux and a warhound (ignoring the 30% max on support assets to fit the warhound in).
Messing with legion builder it looks like 590 + an extra command stand. Either way you aren't hitting 1500 w/ 2 boxes and you end up with 2 warhound titans (assuming you split the boxes with someone) that don't make a lot of sense to use together. GW really needed to make the models cheaper, they should have been ~$30-$35 boxes, not $50. I will be interested to see how the unit boxes are selling in a year.
This is probably GWs most expensive game to play an average army in a "standard" (according to GW, 3k points) point game. IMO it's a tough sell to convince someone to drop upwards of $1k for an army you squint at.
Honestly, it would be almost affordable if there was more non titan big stuff to play.
Woa do you really need that many models to play an enjoyable game of netepic? LI seems to work best at 1500p or 2000p which seems quite reasonable.
What about the other epic rule sets? How well can those scale between different army sizes?
Are there any good 3rd party 8mm models, or is it best to just print your own?
Print your own.
Waiting for Epic Warpath tbqh, I don't do Kickstarter but when it's out...
Why were Death Guard of all legions the poster-children for this game? I guess it’s not unprecedented since they were the Ultramarines’ designated opponent in 8th, but I’d probably remember this game existed if it had some brighter colours, like the Imperial Fists did for HH.
Probably comes from the Solar Auxilia. They're going to be in darker colours, so ideally their opponent should be lighter to provide a nice contrast. And of those:
Can't use Fists because they're already on the 28mm box.
Wolves are grey. Too close to the SAux scheme.
White Scars - pure white might actually be TOO bright.
World Eaters - send your painting team mad picking out all the shoulder pads. Might also look a bit messy in a photo.
One other thing to note for the Scars and WEaters is that white seems to be allocated to Tau as a 'box art' colour at the moment, and we know GW likes easy visual differentiation for the shelves.
The HH DG/Pallid Hand color scheme is ideal for being gritty and grim looking while also showing off detail and taking to weathering well.
It's the same reason desert vehicles are so popular with WWII modelers.
I think because it's a fairly easy paint scheme.
Iron Hands honestly makes more sense. Problem is their scheme kind of sucks.
Hasn't been available in Australia since it sold out at preorder. The company is killing it themselves.
>8mm minis for the price you could get 28mm minis a decade ago
lol
It was stillborn, like many of the games GW is frantically shitting out nowadays. Someone should teach GW about basic childcare, that if they give birth to something, they should at least support and feed the little fricker, allowing it to grow for a while, instead of what they currently do, drop it immediately so they can shit out the next one in line.
it came out 3 months ago you melodramatic ADD moron
You must be new to GW games. The specialist games today are getting way more support than they did in the past. It used to be you got 1 maybe 2 printings of a boxed game then if you were really lucky an additional release of something. Today at least they continue supporting the things they release, but they are stretching themselves too thin, they can't manufacture enough models to keep shelves stocked.
It's done its job, which is to let GW pick a fight with other manufaturers.
Prior to LI, all "epic scale" stuff was being bought second-hand or from other manufacturers or printed. The rules were all being downloaded for free. GW got no money from any of this and had no presence in the space.
Now, for what I imagine was a minimal outlay, GW are once again selling some people 6-8mm figures and rulebooks and scenery which are slightly (or a lot) physically larger than the competiton's.
This means that GW is back in their preferred position; they're selling the official, trademarked, "luxury-priced" current versions of "epic" miniatures, and next to them other manufacturer's figures look physically smaller and feel more like cheap knockoffs. They are also making at least some money from the product (since the designers, sculptors and rules writers were all minimally paid and told to use old material wherever possible). It's precisely the same as they did with Blood Bowl 2016 (down to changing the scale!), except that Blood Bowl was always a more popular game and got more resources in designing the ministures range.
The game may be dead in terms of online discussion and overall games played, but it's done its job.