>Let me ask you a question: When you won those last two games, were you not the sweatlord in those matches?
>The true answer, and you know it and I know it, is that your ego is getting your ass beat. When you lose, it's because that guy's a tryhard. When you win, it's because you're a beast.
Is FGC personality Sajam right? Is there nothing wrong with Skill-based matchmaking? Should people just wrangle their egos instead of expecting easy games and free wins?
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Having SBMM in casual while there also exists a ranked playlist is one of the major issues many people have. If the only difference between the two modes is a shiny badge then what's the point of even calling it casual/unranked?
this
there should be no expectations for casual. SBMM is just something to keep people stuck in that skinner box mentality as they experience the drudgery of forced 50. The complete lack of variety in skill level isn't engaging or fun in and of itself, it's monotonous. Games with dedicated servers allow you to experience the wonder of true god contrasted by a DSP-tier quadriplegic playing the game with his tongue.
You SHOULD get completely annihilated once in a while and you SHOULD stomp some idiot with a 0.3 kdr once in a while.
If sweat lords can just stomp on newbies and shitters on casual, which is where they can go practice without being yelled at for sucking, the majority will just stop playing the game. It makes sense for casual to have matchmaking too. At most, there should be a separate mode where people can go knowing that anything goes but it shouldn't replace normal MM casual
>If sweat lords can just stomp on newbies and shitters on casual, which is where they can go practice without being yelled at for sucking, the majority will just stop playing the game
No they won't. ALL multiplayer games used to be like this and it was fine
The point is that nothing fricking matters in casual
Just relax, why are you sweating and getting worked up?
>If the only difference between the two modes is a shiny badge then what's the point of even calling it casual/unranked?
So that the casuals can relax and not have to deal with sweaty homosexuals
There's tons of people who would go into casual for the sole purpose of stomping weaker players if they knew there wasn't any SBMM, and then these people would now be crying about that. There's no pleasing them.
Skill based match making is MORE important in casual than competitive, a new player hopping into casual getting raped by a basment dweller sweatlord who plays 18 hours a day makes them stop playing and your game dies
You're right that's why Call of Duty sold like complete dogshit until Black Ops 2 released and saved everyone from the hell that is ping-based matchmaking.
LOOK AT THAT SCHNOZ
basado
>SBMM
Vidya companies have been employing psychologists for a long time, and EOMM (engagement-optimized matchmaking) reigns supreme now. It exists to push the right buttons to keep you playing for as long as possible.
If you're average/good, you will be used to carry low skill earners so they don't quit after getting stomped all the time and keep buying cosmetics and other shit.
The burden of proof is on the companies to show that their matchmaking isn't rigged, and nothing short of full disclosure of their algorithms can put this discussion to rest.
Of course, with all these patented matchmaking algorithms, this will never happen, so it's safe to assume foul play.
>I KNOW I can win but somehow I'm just not doing it!
Sounds like you can't actually win then
I agree with this post overall. SSBM is excellent as a concept but it's pretty obvious most games don't really use it now.
that pic doesn't make sense to me. When I lose more then two games in a row I stop playing.
That may be how you work but it's not how a lot of other people work
Regardless EOMM simply doesn't effect me so I don't care if it exists
>implying their player evaluation is good enough to even begin rigging outcomes
>implying that win/loss streaks cannot be explained purely by the inherent statistics of 50%WR
EOMM is shitter cope, unironically. There is no conspiracy. You just suck. Enjoy your 50% winrate.
>teammates just having a good/bad game
>you're having a good/bad day
>enemy playstyle completely counters yours, even if they're hardstuck shitters like you (and vice versa)
There are a huge amount of good explanations for why you have swing games. All of them are better than a grand conspiracy to keep you in the bottom 10% of rank icons.
Then how come when I'm talked into trying CoD multiplayer yet again, I seem to be stuck on teams full of people just as bad as I am, while the entire enemy team seems to be able to tank a half dozen shots while the deathcam shows them all being able to keep their reticle over me no matter how I dodge an weave?
Have you bought any microtransactions? They seem to help quite a bit.
No, I can't afford to waste money like that, I'm a working man.
Are you implying that if I buy cosmetics, they'll put me on the winning team for a change?
NTA but literally yes, that is exactly how it works. Some company even tried to make a patent about it.
But how do they expect me to keep playing long enough to want microtransactions if they always put me on the outmatched team so I don't have fun?
Also which company/game?
>Also which company/game?
I think it was literally even Activision. I don't have it saved.
>But how do they expect me to keep playing long enough to want microtransactions if they always put me on the outmatched team so I don't have fun?
They don't care. Only about 10% of people buy mtx at all but if they ever do they tend to buy a huge amount of them. They make more money than the sales on buying the game itself. I have literally avoided all games with mtx for years now. I have never bought a single CoD game.
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Category:Infinite_spend
>When you won those last two games, were you not the sweatlord in those matches?
yes. I'm skilled and based. That's why they call it Skill Based Match Making.
this reminds me of getting host with the shotgun in Gears of War back in the day. Everybody on average was basically only getting a 1.5 kdr at best and every like 5-10 games you'd inexplicably become a demigod. Next game you're back to being a shitter.
Zoomers don't understand, I don't give a shit about what name you give matchmaking. Matchmaking itself is shit and it must be abolished so we can return to community servers.
Why not just have both and emphasize them equally?
Companies don't want to give control to players.
It has to be universally curated "safe space".
Doesn't work. People will just pick matchmaking because it's offered as the path of least resistance, especially if matchmaking only leads to official servers; leading to community server death. Team Fortress 2 is a real example of this. Not only that, matchmaking's presence de-emphasizes the community aspect of multiplayer games by reducing games into nothing but a series of quick matches, and servers into set dressing for said matches instead of potential social spaces and casual places you might spend hours on. Plus, even in the ideal scenario where matchmaking leads to community servers, that matchmaker will likely work off approval of some kind and is unlikely to approve of modded servers with custom content and gameplay, which is one of the strongest appeals of community servers. It's best to have community servers as the only option, even if it makes kids grumble about the inconvenience of having options in a server browser.
TF2 doesn't emphasize them equally, though. TF2 removed community servers from the matchmaking queue and shuffled community servers down to a menu no clueless newcomer who wants to play the game is going to click.
In TF2, Servers and Quickplay used to be emphasized a bit more evenly before Meet your Match, and Quickplay was a lot more customizable and even allowed you to go to community servers. But Quickplay still led to several community servers and chains suddenly hemorrhaging new players and eventually dying from a lack of activity, even if it wasn't the total server apocalypse Meet your Match was. Point is, it's like page 2 of Google. Nobody goes to page 2 of Google. As long as servers are the second option, people will pick matchmaking first, and matchmaking's mere presence warps how a playerbase views and plays the game.
>pic
You can still get that with SBMM. I'm Masters rank in Overwatch 2 and the pool of players is so small that you recognize people and get recognized yourself. People at that level know me as a very good Wrecking Ball, and I know others as well. We chat and are friendly.
That’s mostly because you’re playing a dead troony game with like 100 people
I don't care how many people play the game, how successful it is, or about the politics if in having fun.
so you basically unlocked the tryhard community server after grinding a shitty ranking system instead of just being able to play in the tryhard community server from the beginning
I just had an R6 game like 2 days ago where everyone was having a great time in voice chat and we stayed as team for like a dozen games. Pretty magical glad it can still happen from time to time.
Technically right, but missing the point: the real issue is that casual PvP is no longer possible, SBMM is a bandaid at best.
Dedi servers would be a significant step in the right direction, but the community degradation hit them too.
"Noobs welcome" servers created to be noob traps, control freak admins, the choice between the "install our ~~*anti-cheat*~~ spyware" servers and the "our donator is totally not cheating" servers...
>Technically right, but missing the point: the real issue is that casual PvP is no longer possible
It's true. I get irritated when the average guy seethes over SBMM because his imagined solution is unranked matchmaking, which would blow ass in its own way. We need shit community servers back and supported if you want truly casual PVP back. I'm pretty sure shit like Roblox and Fortnite have it despite being runaway commercial successes
Of a pvp game is not fun when you play to win it is just a bad game. Nothing else to it
>control freak admins
That's been a thing since I can remember. Counter Strike 1.5 already had guys who'd advertise a three page rulebook for their dust2 server
>the real issue is that casual PvP is no longer possible
This
It never was
A sad consequence of video game popularity booming. No way to feasibly moderate these so they bulldozed this free land instead.
AAAHH a non-argument that doesn't address the issue, I'm sure you feel very intelligent
It avoids the issue entirely, yes.
Simply get rid of matchmaking or make containment playlists for the nerds to play in.
I refuse the question, homosexual
I just love dedicated servers and having 99% of servers being some 24/7 autistic mods of the same map, and if you want something else you need to join some zero player servers hoping to god other people will join (they wont)
This is only a problem now because most of the games with dedicated servers are fricking ancient.
>You have been kicked Reason: Reserved VIP spot 😉
then join a different server frickface
that's the whole point of dedicated servers, choices
This just makes me hate the normalgay subhuman reporting everyone
Snitches get stiches
>Is there nothing wrong with Skill-based matchmaking?
ELO in terms of matchmaking fricking sucks. Anything "Automated" fricking sucks, because it wil lresult in people cheating the system or being placed either too high or too low your skill level. I purposefully avoid ELO based games for this reason. If I want a game, I want to be on equal ground with everyone who wants to play with me at that time. Anything else is just a game of who stacks the deck the best before the game starts.
Casinos do this shit too, which is why the only winners in a "Fair" game of Blackjack where it's you vs the house is either the Casino or the person who cheats beforehand. That's neither fun nor is it entertaining.
also this, sometimes I feel like acting like a moron with a sub-optimum loadout. But if I do that in a matchmade game, my ELO suffers and I get banned for smurfing.
this is such a good img it deserves a Ganker gamer award
>pure SBMM
Technically good for fighting games which is the background this gay is coming from. Still allows for smurfs and the like. Noobs always complain about getting stomped and not wanting to learn combos, just want to mash against fellow monkeys, well, SBMM gives them that experience
>forced 50/50 SBMM
shit
>Is an FGC personality right?
No, moron.
only shitters complain about sbmm because they got carried to what they think is their skill level
>codbabbs when SBMM is fixed and they can't shitstomp 12 year olds playing their first console game and dudebros that play it 1 hour/week
>Random matchmaking
>Your numbers get bigger as you get better, giving you a feeling of reward for your dedication. Sometimes you stomp, sometimes you come up against someone who's even better and get humbled
>SBMM
>K/D is about 1, no matter what. Every match feels samey.
>Low skill players you're supposed to be protecting are now being gathered up for some would be steamer to stomp after he tanks his numbers on purpose to get sick clips
Great system
>Low skill players you're supposed to be protecting are now being gathered up for some would be steamer to stomp after he tanks his numbers on purpose to get sick clips
Why are you just going to lie to everyone on Christmas?
Cod gays have been doing this for like a decade. You just throw 50 games in a row to tank your hidden MMR. Then when you’re at the bottom with noobs that’s when you make your videos
You use two accounts (typically """content creators""" buy bundles of reverse boosted smurfs). Join a game with the shitter account, then join that through your main's friend list. Leave on the shitter account and you'll be a in a lobby full of speds and stoners to farm.
sbmm is the type of system thats sounds good on paper (pleases corpos), but is shit in practice (displeases the actual consumers)
remember when mutliplayer games were like playgrounds you and some kids would play at, no stakes, nothing on the line, you could play how you wanted and the reward was the joy of playing around instead of winning or getting some fricking battle pass skin?
now they're like these competitive sports where winning is the only thing that matters and money and prizes are on the line and you gotta train and keep up with the meta and all this other garbage and everyone else is an enemy instead of a play partner
Most people who vocally complain about SBMM aren't pining for those days, they're pining for when they could get to an above-average skill level and start totaling everyone without resistance in regular matchmaking.
What you're referencing was killed by the advent of matchmaking as a whole.
Sajam is a massive homosexual and he should go back to MK or whatever westernshit fighting game he came from.
I always just create a room and play whoever enters it regardless if their better or worse than me until they leave. I don't care if that makes me racist or transphobic or whatever Californian nonsense that west coast queer is scolding everyone about.
SBMM morons forgot the most important rule
It's not about winning
It's about having fun
but if you're implying you can only have fun without being truly challenged then what about everyone else in the lobby
>You can only have fun if you're challenged
Yawn
I didn't say that
Neither did I say what you think I said
why is SBMM not "having fun" then
Why is not-SBMM not "having fun"?
it's not.
>You can only have fun if you're challenged
Yawn
Fun is a combination breeziness of play and results. If I get better at a game but the gameplay gets harder and my results stay the same, then it's not fun. We acknowledge this with single player, this is why Oblivion level scaling is a meme, but that is pretty much what SBMM amounts to when applied to public MP lobbies.
That is the stupidest thing I have ever read. High level gameplay is more fun than low level gameplay in any game worth a frick. If you are playing garbage then maybe not, but don't take it out on the matchmaking.
Third strike is absolutely more fun at low skill levels than high skill
3rd Strike is garbage
Play a single player game, or if you must show 'em online, PvE coop
No, having fun is fun. Getting results for getting better is fun. Pulling off a play you never have is fun. All of this becomes less doable when you are forced against the SBMM wall. Increasing your skill should increase your results simple as. You beat dog FGC rejects dont get that games are for FUN, which is why your genre flounders and no one new joins. Gaming is not just sweats and bots, it's a bell curve. And the average player suffers the most with SBMM.
Oblivion sucks because the game doesn't actually get harder or deeper and the way progression works in that game it's impossible to keep up without metagaming it in stupid and unintuitive ways. Comparing a goblin warlord with three million health to a higher caliber of player is just silly.
Fun reliably comes from interplay of risk and reward. Getting a larger reward for something more difficult is usually thrilling.
>Fun reliably comes from interplay of risk and reward
The word is challenge, not fun. And is counter to the point of SBMM. If you want challenge, play ranked mode. Pub lobbies should not be ranked, they should be about FUN which does not derive from challenge.
Challenge is a reliable source of fun, that's why most games strive to offer a challenge, just for different skill levels.
But constant stressful challenge is just work, that's the point that you are missing. When every game is a barn burner, no game is. When every round is structured like ranked, what is the point of ranked? When every round requires real work, where is the fun?
well, that's why they should have dedicated servers on top of sbmm
No, that's why RANKED should be RANKED and PUBLIC LOBBIES should be PUBLIC. Community servers don't even need to be brought up in this discussion, it's dilutes the argument. Outside of a pool for absolute noobs to learn the game, Public lobbies should be the wild west.
Unranked modes in modern games are just ranked modes where the ranks are hidden, and sometimes not even that.
Community servers matter because when implemented as the only option, they get rid of the entire ranking and matchmaking paradigm and leave finding a match in the hands of the player, where it should belong. Yes, entitled zoomers will complain that they can't find a match in a single click and that they might join some shitty servers from time to time, but frick them, pandering to convenience above all else is one of the reasons multiplayer games and the internet as a whole is so shitty these days.
Your game is just bad. If I want to relax I play a relaxing game. Online pvp is always sweaty that is the fun part
It's ONLY sweaty BECAUSE of SBMM. Are you intentionally acting moronic? With SBMM 75% of games are essentially ranked, without it's maybe 1/10. This is why modern MP games need so much "progression" in the form of battle pass and weeklies, because no one has fun playing the game on its own anymore for the sake of getting better. Because there is no reward for getting better at a game than being put in tougher lobbies.
>put in tougher lobbies.
If you were a better player they wouldn't be tough. Sorry but I don't listen to casual players.
Tougher is a relative term you mental midget.
But the reward is the feeling of getting better. If your game isn't fun to play when you arent being skinnerboxxed then you should play a better game
The reward is WINNING MORE. You are a hamster that enjoys running a treadmill, simple moronic grazing animal.
>Stomping in 12 year olds is fun actually
>You are the moron for wanting to get better
Real fun game you got there fps players. Ill stick to competitive game for my pvp fix
You are simple. Your imaginary strawman 12yo does not invalidate the truth of my statement. Being better should equate to winning more in a "public" lobby setting. If 12 yo cares he can play ranked, which has an in-built SBMM. And beyond that, have you ever looked at the sports scene of any shooting game? It's ALL teenagers, especially in twitch shooters.
No because the game was designed to let shitters win occasionally. These people are scared of ranked so sorry they get the casual mode too
Winning is fun
Then you'll be having it a state-mandated 50% of the time.
No, because I'm good at the game, I don't need the algorithm to stack my team with good players in order to win.
Then you're not playing a matchmaking game.
Yes I am. If your individual ability isn't enough to cliimb, you don't deserve to climb. How do you think smurfs climb back to their original rank in a matter of hours?
>How do you think smurfs climb back to their original rank in a matter of hours?
Living in a fantasy, also this means account selling is prevalent.
You don't understand the system.
i see your kind all the time. i bet you think it's all aim and zero brain
>Living in a fantasy, also this means account selling is prevalent.
Huh? How does this answer my question. Go watch a stream of a high rank player making a new account and watch them stomp almost every game they get into until they reach their original rank in no time. If you can't climb as fast as them, it's because you lack the ability, it's not because "le algorithm" is stacked against you.
>How do you think smurfs climb back to their original rank in a matter of hours?
are you fricking moronic, why would a smurfer want to attempt that when that defeats the purpose of smurfing
I just mean a high rank player making a new account, you see streamers do it all the time. If the algorithm is forced 50/50 how do they get back to their original rank so quickly?
So you want to Smurf in dota 2? That's a minimum of 26 matches (up to 125) before you're given a rank.
The average match is 35 to 45 minutes.
Go on, do it in a couple of hours.
I've given you an actual example while you scream your platitudes, good job.
You're not undertsanding the point I'm making. Regardless of how long it takes, the fact remains that they climb back to their original rank far faster than a non-smurf could ever reach that rank. It's almost as if someone who is stuck in bronze is stuck there because they're at a bronze level of skill and it's not some forced 50/50 winrate that's keeping them there.
Then explain why people who buy boosted accounts usually fall back down to the rank their normal account is on. Go on keep coming up with excuses for why you can't climb, I'm sure that'll help you improve.
Second link
Because their mmr gets boosted down moron. Peoples issue with forced 50 is that the game forces 50 for where you are at. Theyre complaining that they arent having fun, they dont want a second job. You inherrently dont understand the complaints. Sometimes jenga is just fun, not competitive. Silly, dynamic, fun.
>Because their mmr gets boosted down moron
because they lose more than they win because they're put against players far above their skill level.
>damn I have no answer to that, I'll just call him stupid
good plan
First anon
Yes and then they get forced 50 50 because thats what forced 50 50 is meant to do. Its supposed to help you climb and not punish you too much. Peoples complaints are that the ratio for how the game treats their skill level is too punishing such that they cant enjoy their donwtime, they dont want a second job. Youre just arguing it should be a second job and they should want to climb, they dont want to. No argument you make is going to change that. Just tell them to stop buying. Say they should go frick themselves. Have some balls instead of beating around the bush. The games how you like it, tell them to go frick themselves if they dont like it because thats where the conversation ends.
Then just play normals and stop worrying about winning or losing if you don't have a competetive mindset. Are you seriously just complaining that you can't have an easy game against people of a lower skill level?
I'm not. I'm making their argument for them because they keep acting like anyones ever going to listen to them and I'd rather you just have better arguments to slit their throats instead of letting them writhe on like anyones ever going to pay attention to them. I already do that with halo infinite purely because I have those rythms and never cared about where I placed on the scoreboard, but I'm not like everyone else. I'm giving you the knife. NOBODY cares about them. They should spend their money elsewhere. Tell them to shove it up their own ass.
>Then just play normals and stop worrying about winning or losing
AKA Get the fun sapped out of the game because you wanted to play the way you wanted literally one (1) time and you got dragged down to the shitter level. Or worse, you got banned from matchmaking altogether for smurfing.
Proving
more and more right
What's the way you want to play? What style of game is matchmaking preventing you from attaining? Seems like you just want to stomp on people worse than you without being stomped on by people better than you.
>What's the way you want to play?
I want to go from being an immense tryhard to immediately swapping to my knife and dicking around for an hour before going right back to being a tryhard.
Why? Because I may just get the urge to do that, that's why.
Instead I'm using the same meta as 99% of players because some anonymous wienerwad on Ganker thinks that if I decide that I don't want to play 100% serious at all times of the day that I'm trying to stomp on noobs and some other anonymous wienerwad will report me for it and get me banned from my $80 game.
>I want to go from being an immense tryhard to immediately swapping to my knife and dicking around for an hour before going right back to being a tryhard.
Cool, do that. If you're good at the game you'll still win.
>Cool, do that.
Then you'll report me and get me banned from my game, you dumb, smelly, transparent piece of human trash Black person. Just like you're going to report this post, right now.
Article says throwing matches. Just win big baby boy.
>Literally does not happen
Yes it does and Riot just put a system in place that automatically detects and strikes players who go AFK or start using non-meta builds.
You're not fooling anyone. You are, in fact, trying to gaslight people to run interference for your favorite companies.
>AFK
You want to not play? You can do that without the game.
>or start using non-meta builds
Throwers, so losers. Losers don't interest me, win matches using whatever you want and then we'll talk again.
>You want to not play? You can do that without the game.
Okay cool so you're saying I should get banned because I stood up to go use the shitter mid-match when in the dedicated server setup, I could do that anytime I wanted.
You're just proving
more and more right.
>autofill
By the way, this is the gayest cuck shit ever. If I agreed to be in a place at a specific time like in a scrim, that's different from "This guy stood up from his desk in the automatched game and that may hurt someone's imaginary representation of their tiny penis (AKA Their ELO)" If the game doesn't take something so simple into account, what are you doing playing it?
You know there are games you can play that let you leave and join at will? No shit if you get up for a crap in the middle of a league game people are going to get pissed. They're trying to have fun just as much as you are and it's not fun fighting a 4v5
SBMM is bad cause I don't have proper bowel control is a new one
>play ranked
>know that you'll get punished if you leave because the game you're playing is very balanced around team play and a player leaving ruins the match for everyone
>leave
>surprised when you get punished for it
Yeah I get it, shit happens IRL like your internet dying or your dog eating your floor chocolate or something.
But pretty much every game will give you no or a minor timeout or something if it happens the first time in a while. If you have to constantly ruin other player's matches because you can't control your bowel movements, that's on you. And if elo score is pointless/irrelevant, then why are you playing ranked matches where leaving matches will likely be taking more seriously?
yeah no shit you're gonna get banned for going AFK in a game that doesn't have autofill. As for getting banned for non-meta builds? Doesn't happen. Otherwise the meta would never change because nobody would ever be able to try new items or builds, but they do. What you're saying is you're not allowed to deliberately build in a way that is detrimental to yourself. It's a competetive team game where the goal is to win. If your goal is not to win why are you playing that game?
Oh, you meant in a team game.
Why do you want to act like an uncivilized Black person?
>Not wanting to play meta makes you an uncivilized Black person
Please see
for further questions if you're confused why
>I want to go from being an immense tryhard to immediately swapping to my knife
There's off-meta and then there's being a Black person of the highest degree.
The only game I've seen that bans you for off-meta is league, and that's only because you get auto banned for excessive reports for throwing (there is no "off-meta ban"). It's extremely rare because you have to really eat shit, and get reported a lot for the autoban to trigger, and it gets immediately cleared up once you send a support ticket.
Despite that inconvenience, you see people going off-meta all the time.
Literally does not happen unless you're playing ranked and why would you be playing ranked if you want to dick around?
Just do that. Who the frick is gonna report you in a free-for-all lobby for giving them free kills?
>Just do that. Who the frick is gonna report you
My teammates.
>So what's the issue?
You just described smurfing, which is a bannable offense in EVERY ELO setup due to it being the unsolvable weakness of ELO.
Smurfing has been a bannable offense for years but nobody gets banned for it because it's impossible to prove you're losing on purpose unless you're literally just running it down mid all game.
>dick around for an hour
>lose games, lose rank
>tryhard for an hour
>now you're at a lower rank after dicking around and it's easier to win games and win rank
So what's the issue? What's preventing you from doing what you want?
Competitive games are supposed to be the most fun when you tryhard. If this is not the case the game is just bad.
>Then just play normals and stop worrying about winning or losing if you don't have a competetive mindset.
tell that to the Black folk in the dev team that put the same system used for competitive in normal mode first, if it's supposed to NOT BE COMPETITIVE then why does it have to follow the same shit ?
Because the game is designed to make lil Timmy not feel to bad? Why would they compromise this design that ensures casuals have a better time
>Why would they compromise this design that ensures casuals have a better time
lmao, you believe that ? lil timmy hate it just as you do, why do you think everyone is talking shit about MW3 ? i've played on games with dedicated servers for years and i still do today and i'm having much more fun that playing on shit of duty, all those stories people tell about admin being gays or people going into server just to curbstomp noobs are things that i've never witnessed, does it mean it never happen ? no it just mean that it's not a generality.
dedi servers ensured that games had they own community groups from modders to comp players doing tourneys, everyone had their own special place thanks to it, sbmm just kill it all to make sure you and lil timmy will kee pgettign hooked to the game and buy more skins that's it
Shitters dont talk shit about mw3 you delusional frick. These people just casually play the game they dont post about it online. Servers confuse them and they like the experience of winning occasionally. And again if your game isnt more fun when you play against equally skilled opponents its just a bad game were the only appeal is bullying shitters
Alright but if you're not competitive why do you care if you're losing? I just don't get the issue. It genuinely seems like you just want easy games with no challenge. But in order for that to happen your opponents have to have a challenging game.
i don't want easy game, i want a fun and enjoyable game, it happen a few time while playing cod but they are extremely rare and no i don't end up on top of scoreboard on them.
most matches i play with sbmm is either i wipe the floor or i eat the dirt, the inbetween is almost never happening because sbmm is made to be like this, it's not about fun, it's not about being fair, it's about getting you hooked on the game and it's ass at it except for the low IQ morons that get fooled by it like you
>most matches i play with sbmm is either i wipe the floor or i eat the dirt,
You're seriously upset that if you don't make an effort to win you'll lose? Seriously just go play fricking PvE that's clearly the experience you want.
there's a difference between making an effort and win the game, and having the game purposely fricking you over to make sure you don't win
>but the players are all the same
yes indeed my dear little moron, but sadly the game itself don't behave the same way, it will make other players spawn on your back, it will lower your sound to make sure you can't hear the other players coming on your back, it will make sure your shot don't register half of the time, it will make sure you spawn in the enemy spawn point so they can kill you easily.
now what, you are going to tell me that don't happen and it's all lies ? when there's loads of players reporting the same issues and even made videos about it ? in the fair games i'm talking about wining or losing don't matter because it was a good experience, it was fun and agreable, you can make effort and try to win but even then in the end you don't make it it was great.
i'm focused on having fun and that everyone should have fun too, it's also incredible to see that you completely disergard the rest of my post just to try and make your point, if only you weren't so fricking moronic maybe you would get it, clearly sbmm was amde for people like you, you don't deserve any better
Holy cope. The game isn't making you lose. You lost because you stomped the last game so the matchmaking assumes you need a harder challenge. Then you failed that challenge. Go ahead and try and prove that the game is lowering your fricking sound just to make you lose you fricking schizo.
What if I don't want a harder challenge
Then don't play a game that's intended to challenge you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernWarfareII/comments/yukxly/footsteps_sound_are_different_between_players/
5 second on google, defend it now, moron
I said proof moron. That dumbass is just huffing the same copium you are. Anything less than datamining is not proof.
>actual videos
>not proof
>anything else but datamining is not proof
haha, how many rupees are they paying you to defend their scam ? holy frick at that point i refuse to believe you are anything else but a pajeet scanning for thread like these so people don't look up on sbmm issues, it's impossible you are anything else but that, go eat some cow dung and don't bother replying to me fricking rajeesh
Buddy people have been claiming that games are "making" them lose for decades and it's always cope. The single most irrefutable proof that it's cope is that a high level player can make a new account and then get back to their original rank far faster than someone who's "hardstuck"
Why? Because they're better at the game than them. If you're stuck at one rank it's because that's your skill level, you don't deserve to win more than 50% of the time unlike all the players who are more skilled than you who win far more than 50% of the time.
this is the typical midwit take that misses the point entirely. the point isn't that "elo hell" exists as dome metaphysical entity that prevents you from ranking higher. it's true that only delusional morons think like that, fair enough. the real "elo hell" is a more subtle, subjective experience. it's about being stuck playing with the same class of morons over and over again without ever getting any feedback on what your main flaws are or how to improve. so you have to slowly grind out games while looking up guides or streams of high level players, and then try to replicate their habits against players who have much worse, duller habits who will only drag you down if you continue to play around their level. imagine a mathematics class where there was no teacher with a degree, but you were all a bunch of morons trying to teach other algebra and calculus. that's the experience of SBMM. it doesn't apply to high level players who are smurfing because they already have the best habits trained into them by constantly playing against high level competition. the problem is with mid level players stagnating because theyre constantly teaching each other bad playing habits.
>but you can learn from pro guides / clips / streams!
yea but it would be nice to meet these guys in game now and then and have them demonstrate it in action. instead you have to prevent yourself from being mind-warped by the mediocrity you're surrounded with.
it sounds like you want a casual experience but for some reason keep choosing to play competitive games.
You didn't even read your own link, dipshit.
This one's methodology is definitely better than yours.
Videos are no substitute for data mining, but with an open book like COD and the thousands of people incentivized to prove something like this exists, absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
>now what, you are going to tell me that don't happen and it's all lies ? when there's loads of players reporting the same issues and even made videos about it ?
Reminds me of CS players universally agreeing that peeker's advantage in CS2 is worse (i.e. more peeker favored) than CSGO
There is still no quantitative demonstration of that. Yeah I've seen the warowl video, he's only talking about visuals and not who gets an actual gameplay advantage.
>wipe the floor
Too easy
>eat the dirt
Too hard
>fair match
Too sweaty
Literally impossible to please because you morons don't even know what you want.
>Literally impossible to please because you morons don't even know what you want.
pic related, now you can go be a Black person somewhere else
It doesn't matter what you say to these zoomers, their only argument is "HURR U WANNA PUBSTOMP"
>Then explain why people who buy boosted accounts usually fall back down to the rank their normal account is on.
Holy fricking shit I can't fricking believe your being stupid, ON PURPOSE.
Nta
Because its forced 50/50 for the mmr you have. They dont have your actual mmr at that point so they cant force 50 50
Forced 50 50 is supposed to be something to help you improve by giving you a challenge to climb, but if someones not wanting to rank up at that moment they dont care for the new challenge. Forced 50 50 is premised on you being able to improve. No one is saying forced 50 50 is instituted by ai that spawnkills you.
>If the algorithm is forced 50/50 how do they get back to their original rank so quickly?
God I fricking hate you morons.
>Durr just git gud outplay the algorithm like the pros do!
The algorithm isn't like a human that can make fairly accurate assumptions based on limited data, its accuracy increases as more data is introduced to it. A smurf makes a new account and they climb quickly because the algorithm doesn't know how to handle them, in its eyes they're a new player. So they had one match where they assfricked everyone, so it places them a bump higher without launching them into the stratosphere because if they only had a good game because of beginner's luck then they'll be less likely to re-engage after getting stomped. This is of course assuming it "ranks" you after one or two matches, which not every game does. A smurf gets to their natural plateau because that's where they're fricking supposed to be, the more data the system gets the more accurately it can manipulate matchmaking. Again, don't bother replying with anything other than a concession.
Just be better at the game.
That only works if you're literally the best player of the game and you can carry the rest of your team that is now braindead/AFK.
you should be working towards that. lmao holy shit. i know your kind. you want your enemies to kneel in front of you for a free kill. i see your kind all the time.
be better then, casual
If game designers were all as smart as this guy the complaints I made here
would be null and void
Dude you are fricking insane, what he described is literally the standard, dystopian Skinner box SBMM
Listen to what he said
>sure getting destroyed sucks
>but destroying people is fun so it balances it
>I just sprinkle in some even games every once in awhile
This translates to shitty stomp fests over and over where no game is actually competitive and the games that do matter to rank up are few and far between. You’ll get one actually good game of evenly skilled players in between hours of shitty one sided squashes. It’s THE worst situation you can possibly have
>No game is competitive
CORRECT! Should have gone into IRL sports if that was your concern.
I disagree with this, and it honestly devalues when I got to 49 in ranked in Halo 3. Now I know it wasn't purely about skill. Which I honestly suspected since some games were too easy. Ranked should always, and I mean always be about you being nearly at the same level and skill as your opponents, yes those games are stressful and tight, but that is the whole point of ranked and competitive games. It is the law of nature itself. Iron Sharpens Iron. If you aren't constantly learning, adapting and improving, then what's the point? The system that he described in Ranked should honestly be in Unranked.
Sajam is a smart dude. I know some people don't like him but he legitimately has some good points. One of the few FGC personalities I will listen to and take advice from. He just needs better production. I don't like that his videos are just him sitting in a room talking to his chat. Because his points are really good but it comes off a lazy. Then again I don't even make content at all so any way you look at it he's like step above me
No. I want to be the sweat decimating scrubs online.
okay scrub
Wait is Ganker actually defending non-SBMM? What the frick is the point of an easy win?
Because internet trolls just want to grief lower skills. That's all it is. People are mad that they no longer get matches to spawn camp morons.
Games are about FUN! I understand you guys never got your competitive kicks in real life sports but don't misrepresent what the point of video games actually is. The amount of people with career potential in gaming is infinitesimal, why must the rest of the players be beholden to their mentality?
>Games are about FUN!
Correct. Fighting newbies isn't fun for me. Next argument
>Fighting game moron doesn't understand games that aren't 1v1 yet proceeds to comment anyway
Typical, take a shower.
Why would I care about games that aren't 1v1?
>take a shower
Why are you so interested in my naked body, homo?
>Can only shower when others are watching
Nice job, gaylord.
And SBMM would mean you fight newbies you fricking moron. So you agree it isn’t fun
No it would quickly realise that I'm above noob level and start putting me with non noobs
If I beat those people up it'll keep trying to put me higher until I stop beating people up.
If I lose then that's where I'll plateau until I noticeably improve.
>quickly
In any game with SBMM, like league, it takes hundreds of games even at a good winrate to reach your correct bracket. It’s designed for playtime
Absolutely not quickly, because the adjustment is slowed down by ever additional variable :(See, amount of players in a match).
If the adjustment is too quick, it also encourages smurfing.
>Games are about FUN!
then why keep score
SBMM is literally easy wins balancing out easy losses until the algorithm decides to actually give you a fair match, it’s designed to extend playtime which is why basically every SBMM obfuscates rank with brackets like gold diamond master, straight up doesn’t show any rank, has a promotion system, etc.
what the fricks the point of fixed games that reward you for getting good by making you have longer queue times and shittier connections? they will force you to have a 50% winrate no matter what, you'll never know if youre actually better than anyone its just an algorithm designed to milk the most money out of the market. it's anti consumer and you just lap it up because it sounds nice on paper yet you will burn out of the games for the same reasons everyone else is aware of, and every sbmm game ends up dying a quick death and the longest lasting multiplayer games are all server based. daily reminder that tf2 outlived overwatch with zero support and rampant cheaters.
If teams/players aren't allowed to balance themselves and even out teams with team scramble votes then there is no point to SBMM because even the best player can have an off day sometimes
Skill based matchmaking is only good for pros and noobs. It's bad for the middle of the bell-curve, because playing against better and worse opponents is an integral part of the learning process. In no other sport/competition are you forced to compete with people at your skill level from day 1; no, you play with people who are better who can teach and inspire you, and people who are worse who you can flex on and try new stuff. This gives you a far more realistic picture of your talent and ability to improve. Being pigeonholed into a certain skill level early on and forced to grind your way up from there is a miserable, frustrating, stagnating experience because it's very difficult to tell just exactly what you're doing wrong without better players to outclass you or worse whom you can outclass.
The only games of League of Legends I ever enjoyed where when I was levelling a new account and ended up with the same MMR as pros levelling theirs (I got to play with xPeke for example, one of the early greats of the game). These people were way better than me, forced me to play my best, actively told me what mistakes I was making / how to improve, and overall the game just felt a lot tighter and faster paced (because my abilities were actually being stretched / tested for once). Those games were very fun. I don't know if I ever had fun in however many hundred games it took me to grind to Diamond league because it was a shitfest where I was only ever getting marginally better and the people around me never seemed to be getting significantly better either. I think I would have been better off playing on a boosted account.
I don't think it's quite as bad in 1v1 games as in team games (though I think it's still bad), but in team games it's truly miserable when there's no obviously better player who can push the team forward and everyone is a headless chicken.
I just want to add one more thing: there's nothing more frustrating in a game you want to improve at than losing and not having any idea why. Being forced to play with only your peers in skill is going to give you this frustration nearly every time you lose, because they will only beat you by fine margins and so it will look fairly random as to why you lost. By contrast, better players will crush you so hard that it's very obvious why you lost, and that's a challenge to improve and get on their level; whereas crushing worse opponents gives you a vision of what poor / suboptimal play is which gives you inspiration as to how to punish mistakes. This is natural growth. Imagine learning chess without going to a chess club and getting crushed 10 times in a row by an IM or a GM, or playing football at school without ever getting to see the talented kid who's better than everyone who can inspire you. It would suck. You need people who can stretch you every now and then.
With fighting games I get vastly more frustrated playing against lower skilled players because they make it impossible to practice certain things. They refuse to block so they'll get hit by random shit theres no need to get bit by and you never get to practice your actual mix-ups.
Playing strong players is discovery and experimentation
Playing weak players is honing and perfecting
You won't get to try your layer3 mixup or whatever against a bad player, but you can try going for that 100% AA rate, trying that hard conversion, practising jailing and boxing people in the corner etc.
You can definitely have fruitful games against weak players, unless it's bracket or the points really matter to you, then just kill them and move on.
>it's very difficult to tell just exactly what you're doing wrong
>(without players) whom you can outclass.
?????????
What the frick are you gonna learn from people you're already better than. Best you can do is get inspiration to try an idea you didn't consider as you didn't think about smth from a specific angle.
You make a fine point with wanting/needing better players to look for ideas/inspiration etc. But if you're seeking to improve, what's stopping your from seeking out footage/replays/discussions/whatever of good players outside the game?
coming from fighting games i feel this exact same way. nothing motivated me more when i first started out than getting stomped by someone way better than me, which is why it's surprising that someone like sajam is arguing in favor of ssbm. it was the same in the early cods as well. you see someone stomping a lobby and it made you want to eventually be that guy, and like you said you can pay attention to what he's doing and implement it into your play which helps you get better faster
I would have never learned how to butterfly in GUNZ if I played with people of my own skill level.
Skill based matchmaking is "okay" for ranked/competitive modes but nowadays literally every mode even casuals are skill based. And the worst part is that even though you don't see any ranks or anything people are taking it very seriously.
I think if you showed a zoomer a 24/7 server where the round never ends and thus nobody wins or loses, it would break their fricking brains
Looks like zoomers broke your fricking brain.
I mean that's all they play on Minecraft and roblox.
SBMM also encourages cheating/hacking and lacks community moderation.
Frick anti-SBMM I want to fight someone that actually feels like they know what they're doing. Don't waste my time. I don't want to win. I want to learn. I want to get stronger
SBMM is anti-learning as I explained here
unless it's the flexible type described here
>SBMM is anti-learning as I explained here
I don't care what you explained. I learn nothing from some newbie mashing specials. It wastes my time and it's boring
fighting game youtubers remind of those PUA channels lmao
Nothing uses skill based match making in the right way these days. Everything is trying to force you into a 50% win-loss ratio by first matching you against idiots, then matching you against people far above your skill level. This leads to 0 satisfying games being played.
The glory of fighting games comes from playing someone who is exactly as skilled as you. It doesn't matter what your skill level is. If the dude you're playing is 1:1 on your level, those are always the best matches. That's where you find your friendly rivals. That guy you play 10 matches with and the 11th is the tie breaker.
okay but give me a server browser i want the casual mode pl0x
>another thread probably full of people arguing for the concept SBMM and it's ideal implementation
>all while ignoring and insulting the people that point out that most forms of it suck complete ass
And before someone claims I just want to stomp, no. I want even matches. Nothing is better then two evenly matched teams going at it until the match ends. SBMM does not give even matches, it's stomp or be stomped. Random connection based match making does a better job of giving even matches. SBMM is complete dogshit in team games and utterly fails at it's stated goals.
Agreed completely.
If SBMM truly does make even matches, then it should show everyone's MMR to prove it.
It doesn't of course so they will never do this.
COH3 shots the elo score of everyone involved. I'm at 1400. Sometimes the game faces me vs 1000 elo people, other times vs 1800. 300-400 seems to be the matching range and that is too broad for me. The range should expand as you improve and fewer and fewer people are at your level, the 1400-1800 matches are still somewhat enjoyable and the 1800 guy needs to find games too, but the 1400-1000 games are a stomp fest.
People at 1000 should be matched vs 1100 at most, 1100 against 1300, 1200 vs 1500, and so on.
Some games, like COD, use SBMM in all forms of matchmaking yet give the player no actual info about what their skill rating is or who they're fighting.
"Reverse boosting" to get gameplay clips is absolutely a thing in the COD community. Series is full of people desperate to be steamers.
I remember in warcraft 3 people would just make new accounts to stomp on kids and once they started getting matched with real opponents they would abandon the account. It was called smurfing and it was absolute homosexualry. In hindsight warcraft 3 had a pretty good matchmaking system whatever it was.
>Good matchmaking
>Players so dissatisfied they make new accounts to have fun again
>Noobs cordoned in their own lobbies like fish in a barrel
You should get paid for this.
I'm not claiming it's never happened. What I'm pushing back against is the implication that the average player experiences this in the average game. They don't.
SBMM does not stand for "thing I don't like", use your words you imbecile
Arguing about SBMM is missing the forest for the trees. You're arguing about this one specific form of matchmaking, mainly to attack the idea of either tryhards or people just wanting to stomp, when the problem itself is matchmaking, and the frustration about it is not only the result of matchmaking itself but other elements of game design that make winning the only encouraged way to have fun.
I'm a FFA enjoyer. Of course SBMM sucks. Bring on the randomness.
Streamers and what I'd call competitive rejects just want easy wins to look good, so they typically hate getting matched with people of equal skill.
That being said, a good handful of patents were revealed that some implementations of skill based matchmaking may be psychologically manipulative and quite distanced from matching based on skill, although much of it is unproven in consumer releases.
This is basically the run down and every thread goes the same way.
The only multiplayer vidya I've played are 1v1 games with matchmaking. What am I missing out on? No, I'm not interested in FPSes.
Nothing. Team games are moronic. Team mates only slow me down
sbmm doesn't even exist, it's all eomm, and I'm convinced all the people coming to defend its honor don't actually play multiplayer games and are more concerned about virtue signaling their opposition to le evil pubstomper because what they say sbmm does never actually happens, it's almost always stomps just in different directions
>eomm
The reality is it's hard to tell because statistics are cold and uncaring about whether or not it feels fair to you.
So until there's a server side leak it's plausible deniability.
>The reality is it's hard to tell
It's not, not at all. Riot had to make a bunch of fricking changes to League's lobbies because people could tell if they were in winners' or losers' queue within seconds of seeing names and would dodge appropriately.
who cares
grinding level 20 hordes in stonetalon is fun and good
SBMM in games turns games into work which is EXACTLY what the companies want. It's not more 'fair", that is newspeak hegellian dialect.
FAIR is when a more skilled player wins more often because they are getter than the general populace. SBMM is designed to bring you to an arbitrary metric of "average" thereby SBMM is in absolutely no way "fair".
This is beside the fact that most match making ISNT SKILL BASED, It's engagement based. They will literally give you the easiest lobby possible to give you a win and get you hooked, then feed you to better players until your engagement lessens, repeat cycle. Nothing about it is fair or balanced or real.
This. Take a pro athlete. They should be able to win most of the games they play unless they play solely with other pro athletes. What SBMM does is take teams of kindergarteners and put in a pro every once in awhile if one team is losing too much. Conversely if the pro is winning to many games against other pros they’ll put in some kindergarteners even out they winrate
And the idea that lesser skilled players always hate playing against pros is moronic.
And SBMM essentially turns a Sunday scrim into a world cup game if you are too good. Only bad players can really defend it, or the delusional that think they are a step away from pro.
If fighting an opponent who is on your level feels like work then that's your problem not mine. There's nothing more fun to me
They don't play 1v1, much less fgs to understand how good SBMM is.
call of duty is in the thumbnail, despite the thumbnail showcasing some guy who plays fighting games I think it's safe to assume most people are talking about non-1v1 games like shooters here
SBMM is usually designed around the chess ELO rating system, which is designed for 1v1 and any teamgame suffers greatly from trying to hamfist that shit into it.
Works great for 1v1, completely fricking sucks for anything else.
Case in point, the Age of empires 2 definitive edition has an ELO ranking system and the teamgame ratings were actually so broken there was theoretical infinite inflation, as in the amount of net rating gained was greater than lost.
You might've heard about the Dota 2 rating system in how it's experienced inflation over the years, with statements like
>X number of three years ago is the Y number of today
In a functional ELO system this would simply not happen, as it would follow a deviation that would make it impossible for the ratings to go haywire, even if you're one of the best (or the worst) in the world.
You are an anomaly of gamer playing a niche genre of games, you aren't even representative of the average fighting game purchaser. 99% of people come to games for fun because they use their vigor improving at irl stuff.
I don't want to win games easily, where's the fun in that? Give me opponents who present a challenge. I WANT to go into matches uncertain if I will win.
>dude SBMM just matches you against players your skill level
which is why pros and streamers are known to abandon accounts once they get stuck in ELO hell or end up in losers queue (which is an actual thing in league apparently)
the problem with skill-based matchmaking is that it's matchmaking
matchmaking is inherently inferior to a server browser
I will continue to enjoy close matches with an opponent at or near my skill level and there's nothing you can do about it. Iron will continue to sharpen Iron and I will only grow stronger. Farwell
You will never get paid for it and other people live actual lives while you put your vigor towards sweating a game out. The lack of popularity of your genre is testament to how wrong you are, but at least you are in your own playpen.
>The lack of popularity of your genre is testament to how wrong you are, but at least you are in your own playpen.
/thread
>Muh popularity
I too think Tailor Swift is the greatest musician of all time
The numbers are not the point moron. It's what FGs are and why they are unpopular.
FGs are just not very casual friendly thats why they'll never be mainstream popular. There is simply no appeal unless you like tryharding.
>SBMM in 1v1 games
works perfectly fine
>SBMM in 5v5 games
works like shit. Often gets exposed for using algorithms to keep shit players on win streaks so they feel good or topedoe a good player's win streak by giving him 4 shitters
>SBMM in 45v45+ games
works fine because the population for each match is so big youre less likely to get fricked over by morons. Maps are so big that good players are forced to counter other good players leading to natural battle lines based on skill
based take
Skill based matchmaking in a 1v1 game makes smurfing way too easy. -teh smurf
SBMM in 45v45 games works fine because it literally does nothing.
It doesn’t work in 1v1 games either
I want a new MMOFPS like Planetside. I love the "literally everyone playing the game in the same match" approach.
Planetside 2 was so fricking fun
>but it was shit
the game was shit but also fun. It was unparalleled in its ability to make good players feel like war gods
I keep thinking about getting back into PS2 but everyone says it sucks now, what's wrong with it? Just grindy as frick?
low playercounts finally dealing the killing blow
the game is actually a lot less frustrating and easier to unlock shit than 5 years ago + they added a bunch of QoL stuff for newbs like changing the NC heavies default gun to something easier for newbs
Never understood skill ratings in games that aren't 1v1. There are so many factors at play when you add random players on your team.
The funny part is, it boils down all your skill into a single number anyway, that can't be reverse engineered to figure out how a player actually fricking plays. Yet people somehow trust SBMM as some infallible and reliable measure of skill.
FGC homosexuals need to stay in their lane. There is not skilled about current matchmaking and clearly do not understand the subject at hand.
It's all optimized for engagement, spending money on cash shop and protecting noobs at all cost at the detriment of actual skillful matches.
There is nothing skilled about going 0-30 one match and then getting a bone on the next. There is nothing skilled about putting bots in teams and changing variables like hitbox, gun damage on the fly. That's like if I queued on SF6 and lost 2 sets and then suddenly they throw me a low rank player, or if my Hadouken randomly did less damage because "SSBM" said so.
reminds me of league of legends where if I went a while without playing the game would give me a bunch of free win games but after the winstreak I would get absolute shitters.
It’s funny because FGC morons eat up their own Skinner box shit, like sajam will grind out each character to “master” over hundreds of games, shit is such a scam
>individual rank for each character is scam
yeah because being god tier at acharacter whos all offense means you should be the same rank as a character who requires more defense automatically right moron?
The problem with call of duty sbmm is that the game isn't actually fun. It is just morons being tricked by the progression system, hence they get upset not because they lost a fair game but because they didnt get their precious progression. Fighting games dont have this problem because they are competitive games that are built to be actually fun
"Skill based" match making would be good if it was actually true. But it never is. The number is always wildly fluctuating between going up and going down as you do well or do badly. Especially if you're on a hot streak you'll be put into lobbies with people who are vastly better than you and you will lose hard which also isn't a good thing. There's almost nothing "skill based" about it because their algorithms, match making systems, and so on, are all working with/against each other trying to pair people up, let alone doing other dumb shit like putting low skill people in a lobby/on your team to "even out" the supposed "good" or "high skill" players. Also not counting any kind of smurfs/cheaters/etc
If you play any FPS with "SBMM" enabled, you can easily see it happen all of the time. Halo Infinite for example has an absolutely egregious match making system that will force you onto teams of players who can not even get past 6 kills at times while you have one guy who is dominating. Or again, you'll be versed off against people who are much better than you/your team and basically the only thing you can do is lose no matter how hard you try. It just isn't fun.
Yeah no game is going to be a perfect match every time, but ideally the matches should be relatively even. Having 1 good player on a team of 4 or 5 with the rest being complete fricking morons isn't fun
It's good for competitive, not casual play. I like occasionally getting my ass beat and seeing crazy shit, while I also like getting to play around and style on fools.
Games survived and thrived before SBMM, and no one complained. Now that there is SBMM, everyone complains. Its a solution to a problem that never existed, and in reality is a smokescreen to try and expand the market as wide as possible and extract as much money as possible, which by no measure does that mean creating the best game.
The easy way to beat sbmm is to not actually try to win (ie sandbag)
Like you should just frick around, emote spam/bm occasionally to intentionally lose fights/the game. If the game has you in a skill bracket that's worse than you actually can be then it lets you simply have fun with the game
I don't know about skill based matchmaking as it's implemented in fighting games, but to the larger point I will say it's not very fun to play with people who are good at fighting games when you're frankly shit at them. I tried getting into them a while ago with a friend who's pretty good at them but after months of trying and practising, his skill was still too high for me to touch. He'd been playing for years and years and our matches were just him pulling one long combo with me occasionally managing to break it. I think there's a point past which you're not even really playing anymore.
I'd like to play with my friends and not give them nightmare games where they can't do anything, now being good at a game means I can't play with my friends anymore as opposed to the era of random selection. Cool. Not going to buy any shit game with SBMM, they all suck.
>comparing matchmaking in a fighting game to a team based fps
do these gays really
well, they are black
Yeah FGC is really stupid. They also don't play anything other than fighting games so their entire view on gaming is skewed.
>Playing a team based game alone
Just get a full stack so you can progress as a team
>stacking in pub/casual matchmaking
lol lmao even
>Expecting a fulfilling experience by playing a team game alone.
Anon I.....
again
pubs
it literally shouldnt matter
weird, in older team based games that was fully possible, but I guess that was just a miraculous fluke or something and impossible to replicate nowadays
It literally wasn't you just sucked and had no comparison for better ways to spend your time.
sorry buddy but you don't know more about my lived experience than I do
True friend you are never wrong about anything that happened 15 years ago.
e-"sports" are cancer
>makes fun of fps players for crying about sbmm
>"as a fighting game player, it couldn't be me"
>proceed to smurf GBVSR ranked for days on end instead of climbing to master with one character
What did Sajam means by this?
Why can't they just implement a toggle? I want good connection
If it's not a ranked mode, matchmaking should be 100% random.
if SBMM worked it would be fine but that's not how the algorithms work in matchmaking games at all.
They're all designed around engagement metrics to keep people playing and skill ratings have little to do with it
So SBMM ... I am good, I get matched with our people who are similary good? Why is this bad?
Because you can never feel good at the expense of others, the entire point of online gaming.
No, you get matched in a way that forces a 50% winrate over time.
It's not the same thing at all.
So I should be matched against shitters? Because?
You are matched against shitters in a SBMM environment when you lose too much.
>I play like shit, meaning my skill in otherwords have lowered, meaning I should be in a lower bracket / i.e shitterbracket. When I become better I rise above the shitterbracket.´
If only sports had figured this out, hate being a Premier League player and not being able to play against Indian Division 10 and stomping them
No, you play too well you get worse teammates and better enemies, you play badly you get better teammates and worse enemies.
You seem to be a bit autistic.
hehe, I really like how you KNOW how things work. Should probably read about the argument of ignorance my guy.
>hehe, I really like how you KNOW how things work. Should probably read about the argument of ignorance my guy.
A tad salty
I don't get paid to sweat my ass off in public lobbies when I just want to run some squads with friends. The fallacy of all this "improve, sports, equity" etc arguments is I PAID for the game to have FUN, not to do work. I already worked to get the money to pay for my game, why are there systems that prevent me from having fun because I naturally rise to the 80th percentile in any game I play?
It arbitrarily lowers my statistical results which is what I care about as a good casual player.
>80th percentile
>good casual player
>casual player
Yeah, that is most definitely what your brain on zero statistics knowledge gets you
Yes I play CASUALLY and because I'm not a moron and have working hands/wrist I always reach diamond or equivalent in any game I play, at minimum. I am a real person. In fact, most people could be me I they played more diligent. You have yet to tell me why I deserve to be punished for being good at a video game I paid for.
Real life is an awful example because here how it would work
>pro athlete plays with high schoolers
>wtf this isn’t fair he should be with the pros
If sports were like SBMM
>pro athlete stomps high schoolers for 50 games
>ok give him a promo to rank up to adult Rec center level
>pro athlete stomps casual adult players for 100 games
>ok give him a promo to rank up to collegiate athletes
>pro stomps collegiate youths for 150 games
>ok give him a promo to be in a bottom of the barrel pro league
>pro succeeds wildly for 200 games
>ok give him a promo for the second most popular league
>600 games
>ok now put him here he belongs
Shit is an absolute scam
Because cod is not actually fun to play competitively. Its a lil b***h game with no fun skill expression so ofcourse people just want to bully others as its the only fun to be had
That is funner.
It's not. Most people are just whiny b***hes that dont want to improve.
…that’s not what happens
> I am good, I get matched with our people who are similary good?
in theory
in practice no, that doesn't happen
Because public lobbies should be PUBLIC and ranked lobbies should be ranked. The only people who can argue are game makers who experience less "engagement", not even necessarily less revenue. Games are not work despite what streamer culture and battle pass grind has impressed upon you.
>do really well in two or three matches
>suddenly get matched with mouth breathers on your team
>enemy team is in a VC party and a full ELO tier higher than you
>get stomped
>this repeats for two or three matches
>suddenly get matched with sweaty tryhards on your team
>enemy team is a bunch of clueless morons that bought the game 45 minutes ago
>effortlessly faceroll for two or three matches
>suddenly get matched with mouth breathers on your team
>etc
>repeat this process forever
wow this is really fun and engaging
You are describing EOMM
The real problem is that games claim to be using SSBM, but are using EOMM under the hood.
Of course, SBMM is not something you can actually implement in anything beyond a 1v1.
SBMM is literally just a marketing buzzword for EOMM, it’s the same exact thing.
It's not, EOMM is an anti-consumer evolution of the concept.
Forced 50% win rate says, Hi.
matchmaking is just another example of how the modern netizen is so lazy these days they want an algorithim to make all their choices for them, even if the end results are inevitably worse
It doesn't make sense. Rank to rank matchmaking was good for bringing players of similar skill on organic level. Sometimes you played better people but often you played on par or worse players and it wasn't cancer
How's this?
>Everything goes queue / Fun
>SBMM Unranked / Learning
>Ranked / Sweat
No. Ranked with skill based matchmaking, public with random matchmaking. Casual skill-based matchmaking is so moronic that it's an oxymoron
I don't understand why people don't get this. It's called CASUAL, it's where I go when I want to just frick around and not be expected to try very hard. There shouldn't be the ever present draw of smurfing for fricking casual mode of all things.
If you don't want to try hard then don't try hard.
You can, more players add more variability but still somebody that's winning 55% of the time will rise and somebody losing 46% of the time will fall. The only reason it doesn't work is because companies don't want it to work.
If you have a 60% winrate in a 5v5 game you're one of the best players in the region.
That means you still lose 40% and it's not your fault, this being for the top 0.01%.
Yeah and IN THEORY (SSBM) you would keep rising till you reach people as good as you and would win like 50% of the time.
IN PRACTICE (EOMM) you get thrown with absolute fricking morons to slow you down at how fast you reach those matches with equally matched opponents.
My issue is you guys are poisoning the discussion by equating two different types of matchmaking with each other.
Of course, because people have a hard time figuring out that even the exact same system (SBMM) breaks when variables (amount of people involved) change.
It doesn't "Break", it just requires a larger sample size. There's still only two outcomes (win or lose)
>Bro play 10000 games and we'll figure out your skill level I promise
See
Literally the
>Bro the game gets good 1000 hours in
You are being facetious, a proper SSBM game would have the game increase your invisible MMR more aggressively as you win more in a row so it wouldn't take that long. The reason it takes so long is because the games are artificially slowing you down.
A proper SBMM game is the gaming equivalent of
>Real Communism has never been tried!
>A proper SBMM game
Splatoon doesn't do gayshit because it's not trying to sell you microtransactions.
To be fair, I don't know a single thing about Splatoon except that the porn's good.
That game takes all of its design cues from every other modern multiplayer game. It still has dogshit matchmaking, the battle pass treadmill, FOMO elements and engagement tricks everywhere. And with how Nintendo's been getting scummier each and every year, it's only a matter of time before they implement microtransactions for Splatoon.
The matchmaking (what this thread is about) is fine and not operating on EOMM, if you suck the game isn't going to suddenly throw a god on your team to make you win.
My matchmaking experiences with the game line up with the way other EOMM games work, and even without that in mind, it still has an atrocious matchmaking system that regularly drops matches, takes too long to find certain matches and does moronic things like match up teams of short-range weapons against teams of long-range ones. I wouldn't call Splatoon's matchmaking proper by any stretch of the imagination.
>If you don't want to try hard then don't try hard.
But you are putting me in a shit matchmaking system where because I did slightly good for a while I'm now matched with a bunch of people tryharding in casual. This is gay, and so are you.
See my thing is like, why not just have a server browser and a skill based quick play option?
Like, if somebody drops out, they can get replaced by somebody looking for an empty server.
Or just get rid of skill based quickplay since it's fricking gay
>if somebody drops out, they can get replaced by somebody looking for an empty server.
Being thrown into an ongoing match is fricking gay, I always hated it back in the day and it doesn't even work with a lot of genres.
I'm starting to think people who cry about super bros melee melee don't have friends they regular team up with.
Buy an ad.
really weird how threads defending SBMM keep popping up and getting spammed everytime a new COD comes out
definitely organic behavior
>play team game
>Sometimes I lose and sometimes I win
>Take winning or losing very seriously even though I am only 1/16 of the contribution to the score
Why are call of duty friends like this? Please play a real competitive game if you care about winning you'll find it to be very rewarding.
they're like this because the entire game is based around winning and winning is required to progress the battle pass treadmill to get your unlocks that determine your worth in zoomer circles
That's another thing, matchmaking is just used to keep people on the battle pass slop treadmill
>BRO THE LADDER/RANKS JUST RESET ITS A NEW BATTLE PASS LETS GOOOOOOO
But if the game itself isn't fun then what is the point?
ones wonders, but modern games are full of psychological tricks to keep people playing even when they're not having fun
battle pass progression is one of them
My thoughts go out to all the rats trapped in bobby's maze. Happy Christmas to you all
for many years, i told Ganker that the 50/50 is there for you to break and then move up. there is no other way to rank up than to constantly do well while winning.
everyone should be trying hard. trying hard is a good thing
and, no, that guy who killed you wasn't hacking. stop hoping and wishing for hackers to kill you, Ganker
SBMM/EBMM do not belong in public lobbies. "Breaking 50/50" should not be a concept in public lobbies.
i dont enjoy the types of lobbies in sbmm matchmaking, id rather have more skill variety.
even though its a ranking system that balances matches off of their elo, i have been playing faceit in cs because as a new player, i have no idea what kind of game im going to get. im there to see as much of the game as possible including playing with/against lvl 10 people
sbmm games also have modifiers they do to people related to their playstyles. halo infinite had negative aim assist for m&k, cod makes other players lag in high skill lobbies, and uses bots to sway match scores. shits dishonest and a headache to deal with nowadays.
If i gain the reflexes necessary to stomp generally in casual matchmaking, that's what I paid for. I didn't pay to be on a never-ending rat race that requires me to constantly reformulate my patterns against new metas. That's what ranked is for. This is why I won't buy pvp multiplayer fps games anymore. I can understand it with fighting games because its one on one. However, in a 16 or 32 player match, high skill players are not omniscient gods who can snipe you the moment you spawn no matter where you are on the map. There are always ways to not be a front liner if you aren't that skilled.
Why have you guys started replying like this when the quotes are calling you out for this exact mindset?
Because im not buying the game. Im just saying it like it is. I stopped buying. Call out paying customers all you want, if theyre not your target audience, they're not your target audience, and you have to target someone else. I have a better question for you. If this is no longer an issue and everything's fine, then why hasnt the conversation moved forward? Why dont you talk about anything other than people whom are buying these titles less and less while you become the new target audience? It seems like its just something people in general dislike but they want to enjoy the short bursts of fun from the gunplay so they keep buying. Gaming is my hobby so I will play a game for a long period of time if I buy it, so im averse to investing in games that dont allow for a variety of experiences from their choice selection of game modes.
Calling someone out for wanting to unwind every now and then isnt the own you think it is.
>then why hasnt the conversation moved forward?
The majority of players don't mind, sales haven't tanked because of it and SBMM is more common than ever. So nothing changes, a minority complain but their complaints are overtly contradictory copes.
So, in other words. It's clickbait, and you're trying to make a big deal about the turning of the wheel. People who used to enjoy some downtime enjoyed their downtime. Such a profound call out. This is why you will always receive these replies. They're easy to make, and given its all preference based on why you spend your money, you literally can't refute it. Look at you. You attempted to attack a mindset of lightly enjoying yourself. That's textbook being up your own ass. Nobody cries when people say they dont like modern rpgs, but it happens with fps games. Funny.
This is only because gaming has become more casual with a wider audience, which in turn feeds the DECIDELY NEGATIVE trait of casual consumers who feel they deserve free wins and beg for SBMM in public multiplayer lobbies. Ranked was ALREADY there.
>Calling you out
Nothing he said is wrong.
There it is folks, they finally admit it. People hate matchmaking for no other reason than because they're afraid of challenge and want an easy win.
>afraid
Bro when you just get off work and your shoulders are too stiff and your back is feels like shit you dont want a fricking challenge for the genre youve played for more than a decade.
Stop wageslaving
Then why are you playing a competitive PvP game if you want to relax? Play a PvE campaign if you just want to relax with some easy gameplay.
Because theyre creatures of habit. Its a social experience for them. At least it was.
SBMM is fine when the game is ranked and is completely transparent about your rank, your skills, and your opponent's rank(s). Which is why it works in fighting games. His moronic take doesn't work in quick match for fighting games and it doesn't work for lobbies in fighting games, so why does he say that it should work that way for CoD which has no ranked mode and completely hides every single thing to do with MMR and skill level?
SBMM in CoD would be fine if you could track your rank and see your team's ranks and your opponent's ranks every single lobby, but it doesn't. Because they know the SBMM algorithm is fricking moronic and if you do 1 good game as a Bronze level player, your next game will be your Bronze 1 ass carrying 4 Bronze 5 asses against at least 3 Gold skill asses.
This dude always has shit takes. Where tf did he come from and what's he known for?
Who the frick enters a competitive game mode and complains about "sweats"?
Western FGC consists almost exclusively of wienersucking morons who have no right to voice an opinion about anything other than how to play a specific game at a high level. People are ragging on these moronic matchmaking algorithms for two reasons, one: because that shit doesn't belong on a casual mode; two: it's not actually designed to match you up based on skill. Demand these companies show you the MMR of everyone in a lobby and watch how they recoil, because the system is designed to keep your stats within defined parameters and how it does this is entirely determined by what is starting to move out of line. Winning too much? You get paired up with low SPM casuals who won't play the game. Getting too many kills? The enemy team is all fricking cracked out zoomers hopped up on Adderall and Monster. The opposite is also true, if you win too little you'll be paired with people who play the fricking game instead of farming kills. If you play like dogshit then the game pits you against people that are so shit it makes you question if they're even sentient.
Any arguments to the contrary are wrong, and you can suck my dick because I will not bother debating morons trying to send out bait. I have spoken.
they do not need to use players to sway matches, there are bots for that.
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This brings me to another point about these moronic algorithms is that the community (which is to say the community that used to enjoy these games rather than the casual morons who will play literally whatever slop a big company shits into their console) which are these /x/-tier schizophrenic theories about how the game actively manipulating your performance. As someone who runs the whole gamut of skill depending on my level of intoxication and who I play with, I can confidently say that this is literally nothing but clickbait and well-poisoning that distract from WHY these algorithms are so sinister and how they actively ruin multiplayer games.
there are bots in cod. if not from activision, 3rd party services to place u in bot lobbies.
.be
it makes paranoia because there is no honesty to how the algorithms work
Fricking tard games like Fortnite quite literally backfill lobbies with AI bots instead of widening the player pool to lesser skilled players, you don't play or develop games. Multiplayer shooters are a sham and fake and gay.
It's not clickbait. I keep running to actual bots in MW3 all the time.
Yup, rough sbmm is good to keep teams relatively even but getting matches together quickly should be and is more important even if a few outliers are present and there are a few games where one side gets absolutely dogged on. The "sbmm" aka eomm they use in a lot of shooters and asshomosexuals these days is pretty much just gambling. Except instead of money you are gambling on getting non-moron teammates X games in a row despite the matchmakings best efforts to put you back down within the mean.
>lol just go back to good old days where sweats and casuals played on the same servers
Oh boy, can't wait for another arena shooter situation where pros raise the bar to absurd levels, drive away new players and kill the genre
>same servers
You mean like when you could go to another server to play with other peoole if you accidentally clicked the one that said "pros only"?
You're a fricking idiot and I know for a fact you're not old enough to know how those games ACTUALLY fricking played. The pool of players who are genuinely capable of dumpstering a 50th percentile player in most games is laughably small in anything but games with absolutely abyssal skill gaps. I played shit like Bad Company 2 for hours on end and most people ran the gamut between clearly drunk and semi-competent, and on the off-chance I wound up on a server I didn't like I could fricking leave ANY time I wanted.
Yes yes trash, that's what killed the genre as a whole uhuh, keep lying to yourself
sweats and casuals still play matches together in the EOMM landmines, especially since smurfing is so prevalent, it's just now the algorithim arbitrarily decides when and how it happens
meanwhile under community servers smurfing doesn't happen because a pro and a newbie have the same exact setup to find a match
I don't care if a game has SBMM or not. I rather solo ques be implemented first so stack shitters stop getting carried. 90% of games don't because they don't have the population support it.
there is a billion ecelebs to hate, but if I could curb stomp any of them, it'd be sajam. frick this moron
It's simple, just mindwipe ALL the gamers and you can have 'casual pvp fun' again
>But after some time pros will emerge once again
Mindwipe em again
coming from fighting games i cant imagine playing with people below my rank.
maybe 1 or 2 games to flex with some stylish combos, but it gets really boring after that. like playing with a training mode dummy.
i do not know why this is even a debate. why play against rookies, i mean, whats the point? you get nothing out of it.
But anoooon I need my ego boost
>coming from fighting games
holy shit these FGC guys are so fricking moronic. Every post the same and they never read the replies to their inane moronation before they think it's a good idea to post their literal-NPC opinion.
sorry man, didnt read everything.
is it different for fps?
Of course it is, you fricking ingrate, it's different for ANY GAME where there is a team, be it FPS, ASShomosexualS, whatever.
wouldnt you get more pissed off if you have low ranked players in your team?
>wouldnt you get more pissed off if you have low ranked players in your team?
I'm going to re-iterate what several people (including myself) have already said: western FGC morons have no right to talk about anything except their extremely narrow scope of expertise, because your opinions are fricking misinformed bordering on malignant moronation. Matchmaking algorithms in non-ranked games don't care about putting you with people of your skill level, they're designed to keep you at or around 50% and 1.0.
The difference between a 1v1 game and a team based game when it comes to matchmaking is that the system used to dictate a as-close-as-possible-to 50% winrate uses the averages of players and various metrics (winstreaks, etc) to 'create' an environment with a theoretical 'fair' but not equal match.
In 1v1 matchmaking, it's way, way simpler and can use a basic formula to do so, see the chess ELO that most games use. In a team game, the system can (and will) place shit like
bad teammates or overtuned enemies in an effort to force a 50% winrate on you.
well, i didnt know that. thanks for explaining it. in that case, i agree, it's pretty shit.
yeah, elo would be the best for all. even fighting games reinvent shit coz you need those super cool rankz, instead of a number that doesnt move a lot.
Yeah, most of the discussion is actually just because people don't really know the difference and assume that matchmaking in situation X is the same as Y.
I really appreciate that you had the malleability to change your mind and even go so far as to admit it. Takes some real guts.
To further elucidate, let me state some examples of the systems in action. Games often have different matchmaking ranking systems based on things like
>Casual/ranked
>Solo-queue (no set party)
>Party mode
>Game mode
Etc.
Of course, it's gets a bit silly after some point, as it's all in an effort to capture something that's inherently difficult to do (your skill level). Even some fighting games have ranking systems for just playing a different character, right? Then there's also stuff like the whole ranking "season" being reset in an effort to account for time-induced skill deprecation.
All in all, it's a subject matter of hot debate, as people get very emotionally invested when you state have words like "personal" and "skill" in a sentence.
My solution is simple:
If you're playing a team game, make sure you're always playing with your friends, this drastically lowers the variability that you can't control. If you can't, then play a game where the amount of variables floods the system (amount of players in a match is like 30+).
1v1 games don't really have to worry about any of this.
The best, of course, would be to just be able to have fun no matter if you're winning or losing, but that's probably the hardest thing to do.
based on what you and others said, it shouldnt even be called skillbased, it's more like some convoluting_algorithm_based.
probably most shitflinging comes from that name alone.
Absolutely, the power of words can be quite something.
In 1v1 games even ELO can be a bad measure for your "actual skill". You can get matched with someone who counters your weaknesses perfectly, just by chance. From your POV, you got an unfair match, when the truth is, ELO had no way to measure that.
Same thing applies to team games. From your POV, your teammates are bots that started playing FPS a week ago and the enemy are all ex pros hooked on adderall. In reality, it's just silvers vs. silvers, but the enemy team likes to rush B every round, and your team can't hold a site, isn't confident in stacking, and doesn't want to rotate proactively.
The solution for both games is simple: just average out the bad games by performing consistently.
Not to mention 1v1 ELO based games don't take into account extremely important things like "Does this patch have an exploit?" or "What race or gun was he using?"
AOE2's ELO matching is fricking abysmal because of this, and I consider that to be one of the best done ELO systems out there. But if you get Aztecs vs Franks, you're fricked regardless even if the opponent is 200 ELO lower.
That's true, actually, I'm also an advocate for the AoE 2 ELO system but it does not take into account civ matchup rates, though taking into account civ and map matchup rates would probably be too difficult given the sample size. It is what it is, given that it's using a rating system designed for a game where there's two factions (black and white) that are almost the same.
But still, it's way better than the team matchmaking problems, which have the same issues and a plethora more.
Combos and set-ups demand more complexity than stock flicks and knowing where to crouch. Fps games have always been low demand compared to fighting games so it attracted people who want to laze.
I think some FPS players never developed basic logic skills. Like they don't want to be stomped by better players constantly, but cause they reached a sub-mediocre skill level believe they are owed pub stomps. Its like talking to people who don't understand that whole you can have a cookie or wait 10 minutes and have 2 test.
>When you lose, it's because that guy's a tryhard. When you win, it's because you're a beast.
No, when I lose it's because the game is fricking ass, or my opponent is playing in this annoyingly one dimensional way that I'm too stubborn to counter because it's so ridiculously stupid that he's making such moronic decisions, and it triggers me that he's forcing me to play as one dimensionally and boring as he is just to counter him
And when I win it's because I play the honest game where I win just by the skin of my teeth, because I decided to have fun instead of try hard and be a "beast"
frick you sajam.
>fortnite decides im too good for average players (im not)
>puts me in games with subhumans that play the game 10 hours per day on consoles
>after that clearly not working it puts me in 90 man bot lobby where the npc's are literally standing still for me to kill them
Great system.
The truth is that 80% of Fortnite players are absolutely terrible at the game, especially in build mode. If you are even competent you are above average
The curbstomper cries out in pain as he strikes you
people talking about different implementations of SBMM is like talking about an itch you have while you have a gaping chest wound
matchmaking itself is the problem it doesn't matter what algorithim it's using to matchmake you with, the fact that any algorithim is being used to determine when where and how you play the game is the problem
Well, anon, there's not really anything to talk about if we compare matchmaking to custom lobbies because it's a done deal.
Everyone knows Matchmaking is inferior, everyone agrees, so we just fling shit and debate about MM because there isn't anything else to talk about in the subject area.
I seriously don't understand what is the issue with getting matched up with people of similar skill level
That's the thing, they are not. You are either too stupid or ignorant to understand the difference.
>nooo you don't understand I'm getting put into games with morons on my team because the game wants me to lose
>well yes other people climb despite this supposedly being a thing but you don't understand it's not my fault I keep losing!
>nooo you don't understand I'm getting put into games with morons on my team because the game wants me to lose
Yes. That's literally what forced 50 win rate is about.
>well yes other people climb despite this supposedly being a thing but you don't understand it's not my fault I keep losing!
They don't. Everyone must stay at 50%.
>They don't. Everyone must stay at 50%.
Explain why some people climb while others stay in one rank
>forced 50
You climb against people worse than you. At a similar skill level you will win half your matches. For some reason your believe you are should be allowed to face the players you easily won the majority of matches against, but it is unfair and sweaty to go up against anyone better. Despite not even being a very good player.
There is literally no player above bronze then I guess. Are fps players really this stupid?
>Are fps players really this stupid?
Yes. They will blame literally everything else but themselves. Just look at CS player configs and all the placebo they have on it.
maybe try reading the rest of the thread
COD isn't a competitive game. The flowchart of COD is
>play a few games, do ok
>stomp, get kill streaks of 15+ multiple times
>repeat
It's an arcade shooter
>matchmaking
this is the fundamental problem
sbmm or no it's inherently a shit system
bring back server browsers for casual play, let casual matchmaking just put shitters in those casual servers and have dedicated servers with sbmm for ranked play
it's that easy
SBMM is fricking dog shit. The only way to git gud is to get your shit nuked from time to time, and on the other side its boring as frick being constantly put in the sweatiest of sweaty lobbies. It's still better than when they used to just add lag to players with high kd to "make it fair" but it's still dog shit
These threads are just exercises in how fruitless it is to try and convince zoomers of anything. I wonder why I still even bother.
>Charlatan still trying
Sad!
>sajam
Is there a single tolerable fgc content creator out there? Everyone else is either a giant annoying homosexual or mentally ill.
I hate what zoomers have done to multiplayer games
Millennials* FTFY
I bet you hate the meta too
why would you blame zoomers? the whole esports meme very clearly started with millennials
millennials are clearly capable of understanding how matchmaking is a plague on multiplayer games while zoomers are busy defending companies in any way they can because to them there's no way daddy activision could do wrong
Why is this "issue" so fricking shoehorned now? You have a ranked playlist and a casual playlist, simple shit.
the only difference between the ranked and casual playlist is that the ranked playlist has a number that goes up when you win and goes down when you lose, is the problem
SBMM is shit for the very reason that it slows down your progress and leave you in the skinnerbox for longer than you should
Back when I was tryharding FPSes and Warcraft 3, I used to join servers and private games with higher skilled player which helped me improve incredibly fast
Im going to slaughter all zoomers with one sentence. Youtubers want to keep sbmm because they want you to watch their guides instead of learning through experience.
What's preventing me from learning through experience with SBMM?
Because some techniques are what your skill level is dependent on, and you're never going to meet those people with the small iterations you make in game. You'll be stuck at 50/50 till you watch a guide.
That makes no sense. You'll eventually get matched against players who have higher level techniques than you. If you fail to learn from them that's your own fault.
And youll then learn a shoddy implementation of the technique and likely not recognize it well enough to implement it. Keeping you in the 50/50. Also the likelihood you will see it and notice it in matches with a numerity of players where next to nobody knows it yet is slim to none
Skill issue. You're "hardstuck" in the rank you belong in.
Yes, its an issue with "Skill Based MatchMaking"
Glad you agreed it doesnt help you acrue skill.
It literally does, you just fail to rise to the challenge every time the game tries to teach you something.
>the game
Thought we were talking about people? Youre telling me games have hyper advanced ai able to match you up with people able to tutor you correctly so you learn new skills? Or are you just pulling a ladder out of your ass? People are imperfect. Youre facing people, and the people who are one notch higher than you are not good teachers.
Fricking dumbass. The game matches you up with higher skilled players so you can learn from them. If you fail to learn from them that's on you.
So you just dodged the point. Going act like there's no such thing as a "low plat". You're not really making yourself look like a real player that knows anything about learning when you argue like you've got a dick in your mouth.
>The game matches you up with higher skilled players so you can learn from them
This is so true. Higher ranked players taught me how to one and done and dodge queues and that I get a few penalty-free disconnects per day.
Wow big surprise you're stuck in the rank you are if you're not even willing to rise to the challenge. Must be the game's fault.
>if you're not even willing to rise to the challenge
Lmao this Black person thinks high rank players play every match
newsflash dipshit: they're high rank because they know when it's time to dodge a game and wait for their queue to reset rather than get dragged down by morons like you
>NOO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE GAME IS LITERALLY ALGORITHMICALLY MAKING ME LOSE
So why does the algorithm allow some players to have a higher winrate than others?
>taught me how to one and done and dodge queues
How?
extremely perceptive point. this is exactly right. the problem with never getting matched against much better players is you never get to see the techniques of high level play in action, so you have to rely on some guide or streamer or youtuber to demonstrate it for you. even then, the experience is nothing like meeting it in-game, because your in-game psychology is a lot different to your normal observation. this is why getting stomped by better players now and then is a valuable experience. I actually don't feel bad getting beat by someone who is clearer better who I can admire and learn from. imagine living in the true arcade or Lan days where you could see the true god gamers in action without the homosexualry of online matchmaking.
Has SBMM ever worked for fighting games? SF clearly does it wrong as I'm still fighting DI spamming morons who have no idea DR is a better use of their drive gauge. And boy, the sheer amount of diamond morons who refuse to anti air is astounding. Heard that everyone is celestial in strive, even the noobest of noobs
I will accept SBMM when it puts players of my skill level into my lobby, not when it decides the results of my lobbies by putting morons in my team
You know, I find that an interesting point people say about SBMM.
People don't like SBMM because it puts morons on your team, but can you honestly say in those games, you've never made a bad play/decision/call? Have you've never had a bad day where you're just off or aren't focusing? Have you've never made a game losing throw? How do you know that you weren't the moron on your team? Most people don't ever genuinely reflect on their performance and open up a replay to see what they did wrong, especially if they lost.
In games you've won, wouldn't it also because of your fellow teammates in the same/close rank as you be making smart plays and giving you openings to make your plays? If you play with friends, how often do you justify their mistakes and bad plays compared to if a random person fricks up once?
I'm not judging anyone by this, I actually would like to see an actual psychological research study on how people cope with losing in recreational games and how to respond to it in a healthy way.
If I make bad plays, decisions and calls, then I wouldn't be top-scoring with as much kills than the rest of the team combined.
I do have shitty days/games sometimes but if players can't switch teams to correct balance issues then that is a flaw with the game. In the old days if there was a stomp that was too one sided the better players would balance out the teams more, I switched teams a ton back before TF2 ruined shit with gay class favoritism and matchmaking.
The only people against skill based matchmaking are the tryhard nolifers who ruin the game for everyone else.
Then why are the ones for it saying you should be dedicating all of your time to climbing a ladder?
SBMM is good in theory but every game ends the same with me playing people's vastly better than me and my teammates don't care and just throw
I will never play a game that doesn't have dedicated servers and a server browser
Literally what business problem is SBMM intended to solve
getting low IQ morons hooked into the game and making sure they buy skins, can't sell skins if you have dedicated servers and modding because morons can't play for shit and modders make free skins to download
"how to get competition hungry ego gamers hooked on our free-to-play, buy cosmetics game"
>1/3 games vs higher rank player
>1/3 games vs lower rank players
>1/3 games vs similar rank players
Guess which games you will win and lose. It's not skillbased. It's statistical manipulation
too bad gaming is dead and the cattle in this thread will gladly accept a matchmaking system that fricks with them because it “stops sweats from pubstomping”
eat it goy, eat all the bugs
>Playing a team game by yourself competitively
Why is sbmm a thing when rank to rank matchmaking wasn't a problem before?
Arguing in SBMM threads is the modern day equivalent of being Sisyphus pushing a boulder up a hill for all eternity
SBMM or MMR is bad. Just look at Dead by Daylight. The game added MMR and ever since then the game has gone from a party game to a comp game, and just shows how broken DBD is, and the devs refuse to fix it. All five gens being done in 3-4 minutes, the first three gens being done in the first chase, there are god pallets and windows on every map, and four man swfs is stronger than even the strongest killers.
The worst part about it is that most games aren't designed with the meta they receive in mind. This is why fighting games meta are constantly shifting. So just enforcing the meta with sbmm disincentivizes anyone purely trying to enjoy themselves. What is being competitive anyways when they also constantly patch it to enforce a new balance?
why dont people from shit mmr games move onto third party matchmaking or private games? this exact problem of sbmm can be avoided with something such as faceit, or inviting people for private matches. we have way more tools to do this shit now, but there is constant b***hing about matchmaking when it can be replaced in the same fps its in?
SBMM + EOMM are 100% designed to manipulate idiots into addiction and eventually buying the latest battle pass or skin pack or whatever bullshit is being peddled. Even if you do break the algorithm by virtue of being just that insanely good you'll get matched against literal cheaters. The patents for these systems are public knowledge, and there's no way they aren't being used when the greed of companies like activision is self-evident.
Just get good
Why do people insult their superiors instead of improving themselves?
Exactly. Why do people call those who would demolish everyone in casual matches sweaty tryhards? Why do they then also go out of their way to enforce an entire system so they never meet their betters?
Wanna know something? They aren't even trying when they trash you.
Who? Where's the pubstomping? Thought all that's gone now? Cant utter those words with your world homosexual. The own zones gone. You dont get matched with people better than you, you get matched with people on a better streak than you.
So people better than you.
I guess if you have that poor of an understanding of language and gameplay, sure. Just makes you look moronic to affirm streaks are pure skill. Like youd never played a game before. I lay my dick on the table as this argument is now done. You chose a poor hill to die on.
>When you won those last two games, were you not the sweatlord in those matches?
No not really, if you're good at the game and get matched with Super-speedy sweats you can just slow down and outcamp them. Just get more kills than deaths.
We patrol an area by headglitching cover and laying down next to spots where we got kills
Just kill more, die less. Sometimes you loose if teammates got beat up, but still have good KD
Nice dehydration skinny gay, what are your lifts tho?
We lift n carry teams by having good KD
Yep, skinny skeleton.
Don't pop a vein with all that 'flexing' lmao
>matched with Super-speedy sweats you can just slow down and outcamp them. Just get more kills than deaths.
Also buy noticeable skins to be more annoying for your enemies, some sweats will just leave when they get hard-camped on by Dracula or his exotic Sex-slave Nikki
Lara tomb raider and her nemesis Jaguar
No it isn't, I perform above my actual abilities under pressure and it makes me a nervous wreck, it happened throughout my entire childhood and into college and now into my career because I will keep taking things on and raising the bar without realizing I'm doing it, just trying to get through the work, and then I get overworked or reprimanded or have to find a new job because the workload is unbearable.
Please let me have fun in videogames, I am going to kill myself otherwise
We have the bright bundles and piss enemies off 😀
We keep these SBMM lobbies LIT
Rgb-light gun + Hades skin and we make sweats rage