Ok. I have way more painted minis than that but of course I don't NEED them to live but it's something I've chose to spend free time on doing.
Some of my friends have 4000 hours in counters-strike. They don't need it but they still play.
Unlike you who, of course spend, your valuable time continually bettering yourself in every imaginable field like a bona fide renaissance man and totally doesn't waste away the hours flinging your own poo on an image board like some sort of autistic monkey.
Ok. I have way more painted minis than that but of course I don't NEED them to live but it's something I've chose to spend free time on doing.
Some of my friends have 4000 hours in counters-strike. They don't need it but they still play.
got you there son. Put you over his knee and spanked you
Once you have a fully painted 2000pt army you immediately stop. If you want to keep painting and collecting you start a new army. This is the only way.
>Write down your roster and never change it again
and then GW kept printing shit rules, errata'ing them, and adding new things to replace old things.
You could Stillman it up if you picked a good old edition and stuck to it.
Pity that getting hold of old models is a pain in the arse.
That was written at a time when rules were a lot more static than they are now.
Collecting and army was much more of a passion project rather tha an arms race. The whole point was to collect the army you liked, rather than the one you thought would give you >The best chance against the current meta
That way, when you arranged a game, you'd simply agree on points and decide factions. Everything else was already in the case, ready to go. It took "listbuilding" entirely out of the equation, and prevented you from engaging in the desire to WAAC.
In short, the Stillman model of collecting an army is the very pinnacle of casual, sociable wargaming. Soulful, rather than soulless
The sidebar was also a very sarcastic and self-depreciating write-up by Nigel Stillman, one of the army book/codex writers and playtesters at GW at the time.
The armies he is describing are the playtest armies he and the other devs used to develop the rules with. He would paint the army first and then tune the rules around the army's performance and would be playing them against standardized armies run by other devs.
He was right about the three coats of gloss varnish though. His Brets still look boss.
8 months ago
Anonymous
IDK, personally when I finish an army, I usually keep it that way for a few years, then strip and repaint 1 unit at a time because I've learnt more, and want to go further, introducing things like blending, conversions, kitbashes and the like.
>For what? The hobby is painting armies of minature soldiers.
If you really think that, can you frick off from /tg/ and move yourself to the arts & crafts board since you don't give a shit about the actual game parts of the game?
For what? The hobby is painting armies of minature soldiers. Those are all painted and ready so yeah I would personally need more.
Well you're both wrong. Miniature Wargaming is all of those aspects.
In reality most of us do spend more time not actually playing the games. Like the games are 2-3 hours a week even for the most ardent hobbyist. Yet we spend hours in-between talking about miniatures, thinking about miniatures, buying miniatures, making terrain, assembling paint stations, reading lore or history books for inspiration.
All of us have our own little mix. Mine seems to involve buying toy cars and spaceships and repainting them.
You're a very sad person anon. People are more impressed by expression and hobbyist creations than conducting oneself with poisonous on an anime image board sharing nothing but petulance and obsession with not appearing "reddit." I hope you stop being so pathetic or at best go away to where you're actually wanted.
These guys got a 3-4 part "Path of Iron"(?) articles in White Dwarf following him build the army.
I should go back and look at some of the "Tale of 4 gamers" stuff from around that time too. Just good to read them rummaging around the bins at GW HQ for stuff because they had a budget of £25 a month each. They did it in a White Dwarf I was given recently and it was basically all off-the-sprue minis with no mention of budget lel. Nice to look at but zero real inspiration.
These Tale of 4 Gamers was fun cause it >Showed off the new campaign at the time (the "Lustria" campaign) >Put the participants on a budget, thus it showed what you could do with that amount of money >Participant made conversions and different levels of painting skill being shown >Small battle reports as the armies grew
>Do models cost less at GW HQ?
No, that was during the age where they were still selling individual bits via mail order and they were still "pocket money friendly" with their prices(but only just barely). >25 britbucks >That's not enough for basically anything now kek.
Hence why the never will do To4G series again. Last time was during 5th ed 40k, I think. They know they've priced themselves out of doing those sort of marketing articles anymore.
>unable to market product because product is unmarketable at 100 british dollars for a big vehicle or 35 british dollars dollars for a box of 10 guys
Maybe they should take that as a sign that they might want to scale back a little.
I guess this another thinly veiled >"Oh, so GW wants me to buy more of their product huh? HUH? I'm so onto them!"
Good take. Good thread. Pure quality.
Like are we not supposed to notice when a company makes decisions to try and squeeze customers even more, like D&D ending printed books and moving to a digital subscription model?
Are we not allowed to remark on it in your little world, since in both cases they still wanted your money?
Honestly, no. I don't think you should be allowed to spam dozens of these "GW wants you to buy their product!" threads every day. They contribute nothing. And also they are based on a lie that GW is forcing you to have more minis in your games than you had twenty years ago.
>And also they are based on a lie that GW is forcing you to have more minis in your games than you had twenty years ago.
I think you're twisting this a bit. It's more that even if army sizes have stayed the same, outside of sticking to to contents of the occasional "Start Collecting" boxes the prices have risen well beyond inflation.
Even in the skirmish games, like the plastic gang boxes are fairly reasonable for Necromunda and Blood Bowl, but the singles have gone from being £3-6 metals to £20 either in plastic or resin.
I remember a video where they calculated the actual cost and it was only above inflation by a little on the average model, and some had actually decreased. I think you might need to take off those rose tinted glasses and do some math if you want to convince anyone
Why don't you try some math then - prices should by rights *decrease* over time, or at the very least never increase, since GW structure their whole business around the idea that products should make back their entire development & production costs plus a normal profit margin during their first production run, which they estimate to try and sell out or as near as they can within the preorder period.
In other words, save for rare cases where they radically frick up their estimates and end up having to recall a bunch of stuff to be shredded, every box they sell after the first couple of weeks a product goes on sale is almost pure profit since all initial costs are paid off, meaning the only ones left are the plastic pellets(pennies), the packaging and stock management(pennies), and a small percentage to account for the cost of keeping their stores open(again, pennies). Their entire investment is recouped. They're selling boxes of plastic for 30+ quid and 28+ quid of it is pure gravy. They could let the boxes sit at their initial launch price for decades before inflation became a factor, and even then it would be a pittance of an increase if they were charging Actual Cost Per Unit Produced + Normal Profit Margin + Inflation.
GW's price rises happen for exactly two reasons:
1. Their shareholders are now too used to the gravy train and would riot if the company was honest with its customers and priced more fairly, ie in a way that spread its investment and risk over the planned lifespan of the product line rather than just its preorder/early sales period.
2. They raise prices on old products to make the launch-era prices of new products look less suspicious.
Just because some cuck on youtube who's either a full-on corposimp or just hopes if they suck enough dick they'll get into the partner program can look up an inflation calculator website doesn't mean shit.
8 months ago
Anonymous
I worked for gw when the stormraven was 41 bongbucks. One price rise took it to 50. Overnight, the stormraven had increased by nearly 20%. That's not reasonable in any way. They could have put it up by 50pence every year, and still made tons of money
8 months ago
Anonymous
And I've just looked at it now, and it's 70 bongbucks.
Whoah, anon! Didn't you say it took MORE minis to reach 2000 points today than it did back then? Wasn't that the whole basis of your argument? It seems in reality the opposite is true! Congratulations about being wrong about everything. Have fun with your videogame console. It's cheaper than a 40k army, that I do not deny.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Except the core points limit is now 2000 instead of 1500
9 months ago
Anonymous
Moving the goal posts with another bullshit made up statement. "core point limit"? Are you high?
9 months ago
Anonymous
you don't even know how 2000 point games became a thing... and no it was not a "we need kmore money" Nu-GW thing
9 months ago
Anonymous
You blame it on the ITC or something? What does that even have to do with it?
The anon said you need more models today to play a game. That's bullshit. What are you even trying to say now?
9 months ago
Anonymous
No, I don't blame anything. I just play a different game altogether.
9 months ago
Anonymous
The mysterious "other game" that GW-haters always bring up when they spend their free time b***hing about warhammer on online forums.
9 months ago
Anonymous
You are aware renegade scout exists...it's just warhammer 40k, but better in most regards (smaller forces work well, it's alternating activations, models and armies customisable to hell and back, you can use 40k models and most importantly, you can just import 40k armies if you like)
It's probably best game to play force in picture in OP, since that is just how forces in that game look.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Just to add to this, Renegade Scout is a retroclone that you can actually use Rogue Trader and 2nd ed 40k statlines with.
The same author Ivan Sorensen also wrote another platoon-level sci-fi game called Clash on the Fringe, which is its own thing and is less complex than Rogue Trader, so might also be worth a look.
He also did Five Parsecs From Home, Five Leagues From The Borderlands, the very good solo rulesets.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Ya, and if you are really after feel of 3rd ed...play 3rd ed or play...fricking one page rules, because let's face it, system in third is so simplified you can play that.
Or hell, while it's weird, if you are one of the marine frickers, you can just go and play horus heresy...it's actually pretty alright system.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Are these in the PDF share thread?
8 months ago
Anonymous
Some of those yes, but I like supporting the author so I just bought it...All updates come free.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>All updates come free
Might be my old third world ass talking, but how the frick is my pdf going to get updated.
I have some digital rules in pdf that supposedly get updated for free but costumer support is not exactly responding.
8 months ago
Anonymous
You just download newer pdf once it's updated and don't have buy a new book from place where you bought it. It rarely comes uip but it's a thing.
8 months ago
Anonymous
The only one missing from those is the revised edition of Clash on the Fringe.
Some of those yes, but I like supporting the author so I just bought it...All updates come free.
You wouldn't mind sharing CotF if you got it, would you, anon?
8 months ago
Anonymous
Oh don't have that one sorry
8 months ago
Anonymous
3rd edition had 1000, 1250 and 1500 point games
10th edition has 1000, 2000 and 3000 point games
people like you who need 2000 games. I have a shop near me and two small armies around 1300 and 1200 point respectively. I stopped playing as people thought playing smaller game made them feel like it was a choir or the obligator "K1lLtEamZ" comment.
I switched games for when I want to actually play a wargame now.
2000 points has been pretty standard for a while see
Once you have a fully painted 2000pt army you immediately stop. If you want to keep painting and collecting you start a new army. This is the only way.
8 months ago
Anonymous
that's fantasy 2000 points, not 40k
8 months ago
Anonymous
That's warhammer fantasy which pretty much always had higher points levels than 40k you moron.
9 months ago
Anonymous
3rd edition had 1000, 1250 and 1500 point games
10th edition has 1000, 2000 and 3000 point games
9 months ago
Anonymous
So what exactly stops you from playing at the 1000 points mark, where you need a handful of models (and even less than what you needed in the past)? What stops you from playing new editions at 1500 ponts, even? Are you afraid GW ninjas will be stabbing you from the shadows?
9 months ago
Anonymous
people like you who need 2000 games. I have a shop near me and two small armies around 1300 and 1200 point respectively. I stopped playing as people thought playing smaller game made them feel like it was a choir or the obligator "K1lLtEamZ" comment.
I switched games for when I want to actually play a wargame now.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>people like you who need 2000 games
I just told you that you can play with less points, what makes you think I want to forbid small games? Me and my pal had a campaign played at 850 points because that was the most one force could gather without buying new models.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>people like you
Where did that come? Maybe there's a reason people don't want to play with you? Is your whole problem with the game that other people don't want to play it your way?
9 months ago
Anonymous
>Have fun with your videogame console. It's cheaper than a 40k army, that I do not deny.
I don't know, how much does a current gen console cost nowadays? Then you have to get a decent tv set, that's not talking about audio. Then a single game can cost what? 70 bucks now? If you don't want to scrape the bottom of the barrel with old stuff I'd say a console set can be more expensive than most armies, especially if you want to keep the armies on the small side. Hell' you can start playing with the combat patrol boxes and add paints and a single brush.
9 months ago
Anonymous
3-500 at most, I believe.
9 months ago
Anonymous
So around same you spend on getting army like in OP picture, granted you can get lucky, I almost got same exact force, but blood angels in metal for 60 pounds, a bit mad at myself for missing that one.
8 months ago
Anonymous
People already have a decent tv set. A Series S is 299 and a PS5 is 399. Games cost 70 bucks but only stupid people buy new releases, and don't wait a year when the game is 90% off. Or just spend 9.99€ on gamepass.
Also if you are a PC gamer I have seen used gaming pc's that can play everything expect most demanding modern games being sold for 100-200 euros.
8 months ago
Anonymous
This has to be bait, none of the point values you listed include any of the wargear options in that picture. For example, 75pt for a dreadnought not including its weapons, which were mandatory to take. Devastators again you're being incredibly misleading, a single lascannon was 20pts, in addition to the 15pt the model costed.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Let's go through all the units in the OP, but this time without being a gigantic homosexual and completely ignoring wargear:
>lie that GW is forcing you to have more minis in your games than you had twenty years ago.
homie what, look at what 2000 pts gets you in older editions compared to now and tell me GW aren't pushing you to buy more models
No one cares about the number of mini
The only problem is the cost, even considering inflation a battle ready army in the past costed like 1/4 of a current army-
Funny thing is that isnt even a question of price, is just that GW is fading out every single ""battle ready bundle"" and replacing it with shitter versions
>want to have a comfy thread about old WD articles >defensive "GWs prices are as good/bad as they always were so you should suck it up and buy some stuff like me" drone #234234 appears to talk about money
What thread did you read to get to that statement? It all started when someone started screeching that now you have to play with huge armies by design when there is evidence to the contrary, the only talk about money is when comparing wargaming to another hobby. And as far as hobbies in general go, this is still on the cheap end, why don't you try skiing? Or tuning?
>Comparing 3rd to 10th instead of 2nd.
2nd to 3rd is when the great point drop / game size bloat happened. you and OP are all zoomer secondaries parading as grogs and it’s getting really fricking tedious.
It’s abundantly clear that none of you picked up dice before 3rd and I suspect most of you not even then. Might as well be browsing reddit at this point.
>"Fake Grogs could be here" he thought, "I've never been in this board before. There could be Fake Grogs anywhere." The keycaps felt good against his finger tips. "I HATE FAKE GROGS" he typed. Sweet Dreams are Made of These reverberated his entire desk, making it pulsate even as the $9 energy drink circulated through his powerful thick veins and washed away his (merited) fear of hobbyists after dark. "With a computer, you can post anything you want" he said to himself, out loud.
It’s abundantly clear that none of you picked up dice before 3rd and I suspect most of you not even then. Might as well be browsing reddit at this point.
maybe op thinks 3rd was a sweet spot
maybe he's simply not pushing 40 at minimum to have played 2e at the time
you must surely be that old and you're this desperate for attention/validation, v sad
no that looks pretty much perfect for a 28mm game, my autism would like to see a FV438 for each squad, but that would probably make the table incredibly cluttered
>glue costs like 5 dollars >paint costs like 50 bucks >paintbrush is like 10 bucks >tanks and dreadnaught are collectively like 300 bucks >terminators are 60 bucks >24 marines would be like 150 bucks >space marine captain is like 35 bucks >total 600 bucks for a 1500 point army
Hobbybros....
I have never painted a model. I will never paint a model. I will play whatever army I want in whatever edition I want. GW and its paypigs can cope and seethe all they want.
I need more unit variety but no more importantly I need more time for artistic fulfillment or at the very least to finish painting to battle ready standards.
And that's me for now, if threads still up in the morning I'll post some filthy xenos
8 months ago
Anonymous
Man those traitor guard were so cool, never saw enough of them
8 months ago
Anonymous
And that's me for now, if threads still up in the morning I'll post some filthy xenos
It's a crime we never got Xenohunters but you can easily simulate it.
You take Witch hunter allies (inquisitor+stormtroopers) then take a Deathwatch squad as a HQ choice.
8 months ago
Anonymous
I'll never forget that king of the hill 4 way battle where the blood thirster of khorne burst out of the chaos lord and went on a rampage through that guy's white scars army.
I have the grey knights and the dreadnought and the inquistor but never got the now OOP inquistorial stormtroopers. I had one sister of battle not sure which. Was saddo that there were no alienhunters to round it out, now sad that Deathwatch is so underwhelming as an army vs. sisters or grey (silver) knights.
>redemptor dreadnoughts look like ass and are overscaled as frick >every nu tank is ugly hovershit >devastator squad replaced with desolation squad which would the the ugliest SM models in the codex if phobos didn't exist >wargear and list building options is dead
The only thing we got a worthwhile replacement for was the Terminators tbh. Tell Cawl to find another gorillion marines with more organs for another decade of SM range refresh.
It’s abundantly clear that none of you picked up dice before 3rd and I suspect most of you not even then. Might as well be browsing reddit at this point.
I don't like nostalgia and whining about the good old times, but I agree that 40k should go back to this scale. It's better for smaller boards, it allows more fire and maneouver and detailed mechanics.
Modern games are too cramped with both forces simply advancing against each other when is not a boring slugfest between gunlines.
Bigger games should be the realm of epic or Apocalypse.
My golden rule is that if you can't fit all models in your army in a single line shoulder-to-shoulder along the short table edge, then you have a lot; if they can't fit along the long table edge, then you have too many.
Real life. Most people do not have access to the space or tables big enough outside of LGSs, and those also want smaller boards to cram more people inside.
Remember how many LGSs swapped their wargaming boards for MtG tables.
unsurprising for low class trash that never shut the frick up about how much money they have, 40kids are mostly just morons whose plasticrack addiction eats into their quality of life, many of them don't even have the space to slip a 6x4 bit of plywood behind a bookshelf
>entry prices rise, which will reduce the influx of new players in the long run >fewer new players means you need to squeeze more money from older players, so either you keep bloating (and increasing the problem) or you keep releasing new units that they'll need at a faster rate, meaning production costs rise and your catalogue is more demanding to maintain >we surely can keep this going forever right?
That worked so well for WHFB after all
wishful thinking, GW prices haven't reached yet their ceiling, and WHFB's problem was the amount of models not their individual prices. GW's is only limited by they wanting to keep production inside the UK, which limits their production and raises costs.
Also, reminder that the oh so much fondly remembered 4th edition was actually the worst era for GW in economical terms and they were losing money, something that didn't happen before or since. That's why 5th ed saw the introduction of so much new stuff and flanderization while they tried to see what was sucessful.
Insisting on keeping the stores open is another big factor. Physical stores are a massive cost, personally I could live without them but I see why they do it
prices rise, which will reduce the influx of new players in the long run
GW have been canny and introduced smaller versions of the game to get around that, i.e. Kill Team and Combat Patrol. That turns it from a giant upfront cost into a gradual process where people still spend the same amount of money, but it's spread over a period of time as they build up their collection instead of being confronted with a massive list of stuff they need to buy right off the bat.
I like this image. Not just because Muh Edition nostalgia, but because it reminds me of a time when you saw Salamanders on the table who were coalchunks in bright green armour.
Like here, you've got Drizzt from the original cover, as well as Drizzt from after they clarified to the artist what they meant by black.
For what? The hobby is painting armies of minature soldiers. Those are all painted and ready so yeah I would personally need more.
No one needs more than two 1500 point armies, with maybe an alternate unit or two for themed games like sieges.
Ok. I have way more painted minis than that but of course I don't NEED them to live but it's something I've chose to spend free time on doing.
Some of my friends have 4000 hours in counters-strike. They don't need it but they still play.
>Some of my friends have 4000 hours in counters-strike
Embarrassing.
>My friends are dopamine addicted golems so therefore I too should aspire to being a good one too
No hope for society
>minipainting is dopamine addiction
In what universe? Buying minis can be mindless consooming, but painting takes actual effort.
>videogames as a social lubricant is bad because... BECAUSE IT JUST IS OKAY??
Society 🙁
Unlike you who, of course spend, your valuable time continually bettering yourself in every imaginable field like a bona fide renaissance man and totally doesn't waste away the hours flinging your own poo on an image board like some sort of autistic monkey.
Counter sneed has been around for literally 25 years though. They literally turned my CSGO copy into a CS2 copy.
damn he
got you there son. Put you over his knee and spanked you
>post less than 1k points of marines
>back in the good ol days we played at 1500
How many times are you going to make this thread?
fpbp
Saying the purpose of Warhammer is painting your miniatures is like saying the purpose of D&D is drawing the picture of your character on your sheet.
something something false equivalence but its easier to tell you that you're moronic.
Once you have a fully painted 2000pt army you immediately stop. If you want to keep painting and collecting you start a new army. This is the only way.
>Write down your roster and never change it again
and then GW kept printing shit rules, errata'ing them, and adding new things to replace old things.
You could Stillman it up if you picked a good old edition and stuck to it.
Pity that getting hold of old models is a pain in the arse.
It's actually way cooler to have a big collection of a single faction.
I deny you
This would work great if GW didn't change points every Wednesday
>Yeah bro trying new units and gear for your army is for losers bro
>NEVER TRY ANYTHING NEW
Frick that contrarian garbage.
>NEVER TRY ANYTHING NEW
This but unironically
That was written at a time when rules were a lot more static than they are now.
Collecting and army was much more of a passion project rather tha an arms race. The whole point was to collect the army you liked, rather than the one you thought would give you
>The best chance against the current meta
That way, when you arranged a game, you'd simply agree on points and decide factions. Everything else was already in the case, ready to go. It took "listbuilding" entirely out of the equation, and prevented you from engaging in the desire to WAAC.
In short, the Stillman model of collecting an army is the very pinnacle of casual, sociable wargaming. Soulful, rather than soulless
The sidebar was also a very sarcastic and self-depreciating write-up by Nigel Stillman, one of the army book/codex writers and playtesters at GW at the time.
The armies he is describing are the playtest armies he and the other devs used to develop the rules with. He would paint the army first and then tune the rules around the army's performance and would be playing them against standardized armies run by other devs.
He was right about the three coats of gloss varnish though. His Brets still look boss.
IDK, personally when I finish an army, I usually keep it that way for a few years, then strip and repaint 1 unit at a time because I've learnt more, and want to go further, introducing things like blending, conversions, kitbashes and the like.
>For what? The hobby is painting armies of minature soldiers.
If you really think that, can you frick off from /tg/ and move yourself to the arts & crafts board since you don't give a shit about the actual game parts of the game?
Well you're both wrong. Miniature Wargaming is all of those aspects.
In reality most of us do spend more time not actually playing the games. Like the games are 2-3 hours a week even for the most ardent hobbyist. Yet we spend hours in-between talking about miniatures, thinking about miniatures, buying miniatures, making terrain, assembling paint stations, reading lore or history books for inspiration.
All of us have our own little mix. Mine seems to involve buying toy cars and spaceships and repainting them.
looks like reddit wank. Hope your other vehicles look better than this meme shit
Soulless moron
You're a very sad person anon. People are more impressed by expression and hobbyist creations than conducting oneself with poisonous on an anime image board sharing nothing but petulance and obsession with not appearing "reddit." I hope you stop being so pathetic or at best go away to where you're actually wanted.
Based
Cringe and nomodels
cope. Maybe add some marvel figures to your gaslands for the reddit army. See if you can get gold alongside Pokemong there
post models
Based. Hope there's a Mew under that truck.
Nomodels tourist
Gaslands forever.
Ash took a dark path after losing to the elite four
*chef's kiss*
These guys got a 3-4 part "Path of Iron"(?) articles in White Dwarf following him build the army.
I should go back and look at some of the "Tale of 4 gamers" stuff from around that time too. Just good to read them rummaging around the bins at GW HQ for stuff because they had a budget of £25 a month each. They did it in a White Dwarf I was given recently and it was basically all off-the-sprue minis with no mention of budget lel. Nice to look at but zero real inspiration.
Will of Iron it was called
This Tale of 4 Gamers in particular
These Tale of 4 Gamers was fun cause it
>Showed off the new campaign at the time (the "Lustria" campaign)
>Put the participants on a budget, thus it showed what you could do with that amount of money
>Participant made conversions and different levels of painting skill being shown
>Small battle reports as the armies grew
Do models cost less at GW HQ?
>25 britbucks
That's not enough for basically anything now kek.
>Do models cost less at GW HQ?
No, that was during the age where they were still selling individual bits via mail order and they were still "pocket money friendly" with their prices(but only just barely).
>25 britbucks
>That's not enough for basically anything now kek.
Hence why the never will do To4G series again. Last time was during 5th ed 40k, I think. They know they've priced themselves out of doing those sort of marketing articles anymore.
>unable to market product because product is unmarketable at 100 british dollars for a big vehicle or 35 british dollars dollars for a box of 10 guys
Maybe they should take that as a sign that they might want to scale back a little.
I have the WD with this battle report. I forgot which number it is though.
>chaos basilisk
SOVL
I loved making area terrain out of those 3rd edition trees.
I guess this another thinly veiled
>"Oh, so GW wants me to buy more of their product huh? HUH? I'm so onto them!"
Good take. Good thread. Pure quality.
Not OP, but it's not just about that.
Like are we not supposed to notice when a company makes decisions to try and squeeze customers even more, like D&D ending printed books and moving to a digital subscription model?
Are we not allowed to remark on it in your little world, since in both cases they still wanted your money?
Honestly, no. I don't think you should be allowed to spam dozens of these "GW wants you to buy their product!" threads every day. They contribute nothing. And also they are based on a lie that GW is forcing you to have more minis in your games than you had twenty years ago.
>And also they are based on a lie that GW is forcing you to have more minis in your games than you had twenty years ago.
I think you're twisting this a bit. It's more that even if army sizes have stayed the same, outside of sticking to to contents of the occasional "Start Collecting" boxes the prices have risen well beyond inflation.
Even in the skirmish games, like the plastic gang boxes are fairly reasonable for Necromunda and Blood Bowl, but the singles have gone from being £3-6 metals to £20 either in plastic or resin.
I remember a video where they calculated the actual cost and it was only above inflation by a little on the average model, and some had actually decreased. I think you might need to take off those rose tinted glasses and do some math if you want to convince anyone
Why don't you try some math then - prices should by rights *decrease* over time, or at the very least never increase, since GW structure their whole business around the idea that products should make back their entire development & production costs plus a normal profit margin during their first production run, which they estimate to try and sell out or as near as they can within the preorder period.
In other words, save for rare cases where they radically frick up their estimates and end up having to recall a bunch of stuff to be shredded, every box they sell after the first couple of weeks a product goes on sale is almost pure profit since all initial costs are paid off, meaning the only ones left are the plastic pellets(pennies), the packaging and stock management(pennies), and a small percentage to account for the cost of keeping their stores open(again, pennies). Their entire investment is recouped. They're selling boxes of plastic for 30+ quid and 28+ quid of it is pure gravy. They could let the boxes sit at their initial launch price for decades before inflation became a factor, and even then it would be a pittance of an increase if they were charging Actual Cost Per Unit Produced + Normal Profit Margin + Inflation.
GW's price rises happen for exactly two reasons:
1. Their shareholders are now too used to the gravy train and would riot if the company was honest with its customers and priced more fairly, ie in a way that spread its investment and risk over the planned lifespan of the product line rather than just its preorder/early sales period.
2. They raise prices on old products to make the launch-era prices of new products look less suspicious.
Just because some cuck on youtube who's either a full-on corposimp or just hopes if they suck enough dick they'll get into the partner program can look up an inflation calculator website doesn't mean shit.
I worked for gw when the stormraven was 41 bongbucks. One price rise took it to 50. Overnight, the stormraven had increased by nearly 20%. That's not reasonable in any way. They could have put it up by 50pence every year, and still made tons of money
And I've just looked at it now, and it's 70 bongbucks.
Fricking hell
If you're talking about the dumbass shill Midwinter Minis video he gets so many things wrong in that video and it's been refuted multiple times.
>lie that GW is forcing you to have more minis in your games than you had twenty years ago.
homie what, look at what 2000 pts gets you in older editions compared to now and tell me GW aren't pushing you to buy more models
That's a completetly meaningless comparison which has nothing to do with real gameplay.
Serious cope right here
>3rd edition Tactical Marine: 15 pts per model
>3rd edition Terminator: 42 pts per model
>10th edition Tactical Marine: 16 pts per model
>10th edition Terminator: 41 pts per model
Thanks for playing, anon.
>cherry picking
provide more to refute their argument
Let's go through all units in OP!
>Rhino
3rd edition: 50 pts
10th edition: 75 pts
>Predator Destructor
3rd edition: 100 pts
10th edition: 130 pts
>Dreadnought
3rd edition: 75 pts
10th editon: 135 pts
>Devastator Marine
3rd edition: 15 pts + wargear
10th edition: 20 pts including wargear
Whoah, anon! Didn't you say it took MORE minis to reach 2000 points today than it did back then? Wasn't that the whole basis of your argument? It seems in reality the opposite is true! Congratulations about being wrong about everything. Have fun with your videogame console. It's cheaper than a 40k army, that I do not deny.
Except the core points limit is now 2000 instead of 1500
Moving the goal posts with another bullshit made up statement. "core point limit"? Are you high?
you don't even know how 2000 point games became a thing... and no it was not a "we need kmore money" Nu-GW thing
You blame it on the ITC or something? What does that even have to do with it?
The anon said you need more models today to play a game. That's bullshit. What are you even trying to say now?
No, I don't blame anything. I just play a different game altogether.
The mysterious "other game" that GW-haters always bring up when they spend their free time b***hing about warhammer on online forums.
You are aware renegade scout exists...it's just warhammer 40k, but better in most regards (smaller forces work well, it's alternating activations, models and armies customisable to hell and back, you can use 40k models and most importantly, you can just import 40k armies if you like)
It's probably best game to play force in picture in OP, since that is just how forces in that game look.
Just to add to this, Renegade Scout is a retroclone that you can actually use Rogue Trader and 2nd ed 40k statlines with.
The same author Ivan Sorensen also wrote another platoon-level sci-fi game called Clash on the Fringe, which is its own thing and is less complex than Rogue Trader, so might also be worth a look.
He also did Five Parsecs From Home, Five Leagues From The Borderlands, the very good solo rulesets.
Ya, and if you are really after feel of 3rd ed...play 3rd ed or play...fricking one page rules, because let's face it, system in third is so simplified you can play that.
Or hell, while it's weird, if you are one of the marine frickers, you can just go and play horus heresy...it's actually pretty alright system.
Are these in the PDF share thread?
Some of those yes, but I like supporting the author so I just bought it...All updates come free.
>All updates come free
Might be my old third world ass talking, but how the frick is my pdf going to get updated.
I have some digital rules in pdf that supposedly get updated for free but costumer support is not exactly responding.
You just download newer pdf once it's updated and don't have buy a new book from place where you bought it. It rarely comes uip but it's a thing.
The only one missing from those is the revised edition of Clash on the Fringe.
You wouldn't mind sharing CotF if you got it, would you, anon?
Oh don't have that one sorry
2000 points has been pretty standard for a while see
that's fantasy 2000 points, not 40k
That's warhammer fantasy which pretty much always had higher points levels than 40k you moron.
3rd edition had 1000, 1250 and 1500 point games
10th edition has 1000, 2000 and 3000 point games
So what exactly stops you from playing at the 1000 points mark, where you need a handful of models (and even less than what you needed in the past)? What stops you from playing new editions at 1500 ponts, even? Are you afraid GW ninjas will be stabbing you from the shadows?
people like you who need 2000 games. I have a shop near me and two small armies around 1300 and 1200 point respectively. I stopped playing as people thought playing smaller game made them feel like it was a choir or the obligator "K1lLtEamZ" comment.
I switched games for when I want to actually play a wargame now.
>people like you who need 2000 games
I just told you that you can play with less points, what makes you think I want to forbid small games? Me and my pal had a campaign played at 850 points because that was the most one force could gather without buying new models.
>people like you
Where did that come? Maybe there's a reason people don't want to play with you? Is your whole problem with the game that other people don't want to play it your way?
>Have fun with your videogame console. It's cheaper than a 40k army, that I do not deny.
I don't know, how much does a current gen console cost nowadays? Then you have to get a decent tv set, that's not talking about audio. Then a single game can cost what? 70 bucks now? If you don't want to scrape the bottom of the barrel with old stuff I'd say a console set can be more expensive than most armies, especially if you want to keep the armies on the small side. Hell' you can start playing with the combat patrol boxes and add paints and a single brush.
3-500 at most, I believe.
So around same you spend on getting army like in OP picture, granted you can get lucky, I almost got same exact force, but blood angels in metal for 60 pounds, a bit mad at myself for missing that one.
People already have a decent tv set. A Series S is 299 and a PS5 is 399. Games cost 70 bucks but only stupid people buy new releases, and don't wait a year when the game is 90% off. Or just spend 9.99€ on gamepass.
Also if you are a PC gamer I have seen used gaming pc's that can play everything expect most demanding modern games being sold for 100-200 euros.
This has to be bait, none of the point values you listed include any of the wargear options in that picture. For example, 75pt for a dreadnought not including its weapons, which were mandatory to take. Devastators again you're being incredibly misleading, a single lascannon was 20pts, in addition to the 15pt the model costed.
Let's go through all the units in the OP, but this time without being a gigantic homosexual and completely ignoring wargear:
>Rhino
58pts (extra armour 5pts, smoke launchers 3pts)
>Predator Destructor
130pts (lascannon sponsons 25pts, dozer blade 5pts)
>Dreadnought
125pts (assault cannon 30pts, heavy flamer 10pts)
>Devastator Marine
50pts (multi melta 35pts)
No one cares about the number of mini
The only problem is the cost, even considering inflation a battle ready army in the past costed like 1/4 of a current army-
Funny thing is that isnt even a question of price, is just that GW is fading out every single ""battle ready bundle"" and replacing it with shitter versions
>"Oh, so GW wants me to buy more of their product huh? HUH? I'm so onto them!"
No, it's
>you are being milked like a cow, I am laughing at you
Literally not a single person in the entire universe cares if you laugh at their hobby. They are just annoyed at your cringe.
I do however, I think it's funny.
>want to have a comfy thread about old WD articles
>defensive "GWs prices are as good/bad as they always were so you should suck it up and buy some stuff like me" drone #234234 appears to talk about money
What thread did you read to get to that statement? It all started when someone started screeching that now you have to play with huge armies by design when there is evidence to the contrary, the only talk about money is when comparing wargaming to another hobby. And as far as hobbies in general go, this is still on the cheap end, why don't you try skiing? Or tuning?
>3rd edition: 65 pts storm bolter, hunter killer
>10th edition: 75 pts storm bolter, hunter killer
Destructor
>3rd edition: 150 pts lascannons, hunter killer, storm bolter
>10th edition: 130 pts lascannons, hunter killer, storm bolter
>3rd edition: 135 pts twinlas, fist/flamer
>10th editon: 135 pts twinlas, fist/flamer
>> 5 Devastator Marine
>3rd edition: 215 pts 4x lascannon
>10th edition: 120 pts 4x lascannon
>Comparing 3rd to 10th instead of 2nd.
2nd to 3rd is when the great point drop / game size bloat happened. you and OP are all zoomer secondaries parading as grogs and it’s getting really fricking tedious.
Ok boomer
A person who played 3rd ed when it was current, is 100% now over 30. You're moronic.
>"Fake Grogs could be here" he thought, "I've never been in this board before. There could be Fake Grogs anywhere." The keycaps felt good against his finger tips. "I HATE FAKE GROGS" he typed. Sweet Dreams are Made of These reverberated his entire desk, making it pulsate even as the $9 energy drink circulated through his powerful thick veins and washed away his (merited) fear of hobbyists after dark. "With a computer, you can post anything you want" he said to himself, out loud.
maybe op thinks 3rd was a sweet spot
maybe he's simply not pushing 40 at minimum to have played 2e at the time
you must surely be that old and you're this desperate for attention/validation, v sad
Hot take: movement trays should have a points cost to balance against their board presence.
Verification not required.
The frick are you talking about?
no that looks pretty much perfect for a 28mm game, my autism would like to see a FV438 for each squad, but that would probably make the table incredibly cluttered
>glue costs like 5 dollars
>paint costs like 50 bucks
>paintbrush is like 10 bucks
>tanks and dreadnaught are collectively like 300 bucks
>terminators are 60 bucks
>24 marines would be like 150 bucks
>space marine captain is like 35 bucks
>total 600 bucks for a 1500 point army
Hobbybros....
Well, dice, tape measure, some blast templates and an opponent with an army of their own would be nice.
>black marines
>terminator squad barak
IIRC they're from the Bush years before anyone had heard of Obama.
I have never painted a model. I will never paint a model. I will play whatever army I want in whatever edition I want. GW and its paypigs can cope and seethe all they want.
>I have never painted a model. I will never paint a model.
Average 40k player at this point.
I dunno I think more people paint now, and on average the skill of the average person has increased
The painting is the best part though.
I need more unit variety but no more importantly I need more time for artistic fulfillment or at the very least to finish painting to battle ready standards.
Post more armies
And that's me for now, if threads still up in the morning I'll post some filthy xenos
Man those traitor guard were so cool, never saw enough of them
It's a crime we never got Xenohunters but you can easily simulate it.
You take Witch hunter allies (inquisitor+stormtroopers) then take a Deathwatch squad as a HQ choice.
I'll never forget that king of the hill 4 way battle where the blood thirster of khorne burst out of the chaos lord and went on a rampage through that guy's white scars army.
Loved this batrep. WD 261, I think? Read that shit so many times.
Codex Cityfight
Codex Dark Angels 3E
Carrying on where I left off with some Space Elves
Whoops, posted out of order
And that's me out, Show your local knight or primaris player this thread and try to cure them of their brainrot
Fireknifes are eternal
I have the grey knights and the dreadnought and the inquistor but never got the now OOP inquistorial stormtroopers. I had one sister of battle not sure which. Was saddo that there were no alienhunters to round it out, now sad that Deathwatch is so underwhelming as an army vs. sisters or grey (silver) knights.
Holy shit, this is like the first one of these images I don’t immediately recognise. Off to my WD archive.
>redemptor dreadnoughts look like ass and are overscaled as frick
>every nu tank is ugly hovershit
>devastator squad replaced with desolation squad which would the the ugliest SM models in the codex if phobos didn't exist
>wargear and list building options is dead
The only thing we got a worthwhile replacement for was the Terminators tbh. Tell Cawl to find another gorillion marines with more organs for another decade of SM range refresh.
It’s abundantly clear that none of you picked up dice before 3rd and I suspect most of you not even then. Might as well be browsing reddit at this point.
I have, but I basically been moving to playing rogue trader, be it modernish one, rather then playing 3rd.
Hell, I played more second myself.
Sweatards ruin and kills everything they touch.
I don't like nostalgia and whining about the good old times, but I agree that 40k should go back to this scale. It's better for smaller boards, it allows more fire and maneouver and detailed mechanics.
Modern games are too cramped with both forces simply advancing against each other when is not a boring slugfest between gunlines.
Bigger games should be the realm of epic or Apocalypse.
My golden rule is that if you can't fit all models in your army in a single line shoulder-to-shoulder along the short table edge, then you have a lot; if they can't fit along the long table edge, then you have too many.
>makes armies bigger than ever
>also makes the board size smaller so it looks cramped and ridiculous
The absolute geniuses working at GW
What is stopping people from playing on larger tables?
Real life. Most people do not have access to the space or tables big enough outside of LGSs, and those also want smaller boards to cram more people inside.
Remember how many LGSs swapped their wargaming boards for MtG tables.
unsurprising for low class trash that never shut the frick up about how much money they have, 40kids are mostly just morons whose plasticrack addiction eats into their quality of life, many of them don't even have the space to slip a 6x4 bit of plywood behind a bookshelf
>makes armies bigger than ever so people buy more models
>also makes the board size smaller so it's easier to play anywhere
The designers know what they're doing, they just work for GW, not for us.
>entry prices rise, which will reduce the influx of new players in the long run
>fewer new players means you need to squeeze more money from older players, so either you keep bloating (and increasing the problem) or you keep releasing new units that they'll need at a faster rate, meaning production costs rise and your catalogue is more demanding to maintain
>we surely can keep this going forever right?
That worked so well for WHFB after all
wishful thinking, GW prices haven't reached yet their ceiling, and WHFB's problem was the amount of models not their individual prices. GW's is only limited by they wanting to keep production inside the UK, which limits their production and raises costs.
Also, reminder that the oh so much fondly remembered 4th edition was actually the worst era for GW in economical terms and they were losing money, something that didn't happen before or since. That's why 5th ed saw the introduction of so much new stuff and flanderization while they tried to see what was sucessful.
Insisting on keeping the stores open is another big factor. Physical stores are a massive cost, personally I could live without them but I see why they do it
prices rise, which will reduce the influx of new players in the long run
GW have been canny and introduced smaller versions of the game to get around that, i.e. Kill Team and Combat Patrol. That turns it from a giant upfront cost into a gradual process where people still spend the same amount of money, but it's spread over a period of time as they build up their collection instead of being confronted with a massive list of stuff they need to buy right off the bat.
>4 vehicles, 5 squads
Ew, what is this bloat? I want less.
Commandeering this thread - comfyhammer, armies and terrain inbound
bump
bump
5 squads, three tanks and a walker is already too much.
Go back further.
I like this image. Not just because Muh Edition nostalgia, but because it reminds me of a time when you saw Salamanders on the table who were coalchunks in bright green armour.
Like here, you've got Drizzt from the original cover, as well as Drizzt from after they clarified to the artist what they meant by black.
>tfw you speedtype and somehow don't notice you've forgotten the "n't" in "weren't".