Limbus Company

>14 is not overpowered, idk what you're talking about.
Yes it is. It is a straight upgrade numerous 000 skills and an indirect upgrade to many more. Stop thinking about only the maximum number. For PM balancing, the minimum number and coin count are just as important.
>Skill 1 is absolutely going to be more along the lines of the "worst case scenario" simply because it has "gain coin power" attached to it, so they don't want it to become better than S2.
S2 has +coin power and S3 gives +coin power. They aren't going to be worse then the S1.
>Skill 2 having fricking 18 max is just super unlikely given their recent releases, I'd expect more of the first situation (+4) or less (+3)
Chef Ryoshu has a 3+5+5+5 so PM is clearly fine with it balance-wise. Having said that, I don't think it will be a 3+5+5+5. It will probably be a 4+4+4+4 and there is no way in hell it will be a +3.
>I strongly doubt they would leave skill 3 at a max of 12 unless they want no one to roll this unit.
There are good characters with maxrolls on their s3 of 12 or less. Again, coin count matters a lot.
>The 3+3+3+3+3 seems far more likely
I doubt it will happen but I hope it will.
>the skill could actually be 6+1+1+1+1 (11)
That would add up to 10, not a 11. And I highly doubt they'd do that because it'd be powercreeping a 000 (WSault).

No he isn't moron.

He's bad but he's a 000. You can see it in his skill power. 5+2+2+2 is an upgrade to the 00 version 5+1+1+1. 5+6 is an upgrade to the 00 version 4+6.

I'm serious

He's bad but he's a 000. You can see it in his skill power. 5+2+2+2 is an upgrade to the 00 version 5+1+1+1. 5+6 is an upgrade to the 00 version 4+6.

When will they full rework these garbage IDs? Why don't they? God damnit

>When will they full rework these garbage IDs? Why don't they? God damnit
because this is a gacha

It’s PM, they’re terrible at balancing. Look at “30-30-30”

When will they use their players to playtest for them? I could do all this balancing better than they could
>inb4 why don't you
Because I'm not a dev
>inb4 why don't you make your own game
Because I'm creatively sterile and my nature is to modify other peoples' preexisting works. I cannot do anything without a groundwork already there to work on. I fricking suck, and I hate me

>When will they full rework these garbage IDs? Why don't they? God damnit
because this is a gacha

>completely worthless in MD
>corrodes quickly unless you babysit him
Seems fine to me.

>prempetively copes with MD2 because he knows it will be hard and he'll be worthless there
rumao
Well, sure. Let's talk about RR...

Hey look, he corrodes there too.
Thanks for tuning in.

nah his 3rd skill is kinda weak. ryoshu's better

Warp Train Mersault is 000.

>unironically calling Sunshower Heath bad
Not him but this entire post is worthless, even W Sault isn't bad and I'd say most of the Blade Lineage IDs are actually worse.

Post railway count, lunacy count, shard count and credit card number.

Post railway count, lunacy count, shard count and credit card number.

oops meant to reply to you fren

Nta
Both Sunshower Cliff and WSault can deal a lot of damage, but their kits are terrible, especially Sunshower
While you can entirely ignore charge mechanic of Wsault, Sunshower Cliff is unstable and his whole gimmick of losing sanity from self applying Sinking falls appart after the first successful clash

>She does not have coin power on her S3, she has a raw damage buff if she wins the clash and after the attack she gains plus coin up next turn.
In other words, her S3 gives her coin power next turn. That's what I meant.
>S3's actual coin values are normal.
6+2+2+2+2 is never "normal". It is grossly overpowered.
>Actually read the image before posting.
You didn't post an image you moron.
>Chef Ryoshu is the first limited event unit.
And that means nothing in terms of balancing. A launch ID, TTGL has a 3+5+5+5 too.
>S3 lower value units typically have coin boosts like RHeath or inflict better status effects than burn like Fragile.
No. They typically have a higher minimum value and more coins. Go actually look at the skills in the game.
>I think considering WSault in any discussion of power is fricking moronic because he's been well-known as the weakest 000
No it's not. You need to understand how they balance the game. They have a strict formula for skill power they almost never deviate from. Then, they experiment with skill effects. Thisa is evident if you look at the actual skills characters have. They only have abnormally high power or coins once in a blue moon, like FlowerSang who has a strong S3 in exchange for massive sanity loss on clash lose.
>as the weakest 000 in the game prior to Sunshower Heath
Sunshower could be worse really. He's certainly not good but there are worse IDs.
>due to his horrible clashing and reliance on others for just inflicting debuffs when he clashes. He's worse than several 00 units and most units tend to have better S3s than literal bottom of the barrel trash.
Well, yeah. He got some bad skill archetypes and shit charge gen to boot. His coin numbers make him a decent one-sided damage dealer, especially with YWGBH but there are much better choices.

>So no, it doesn't have coin plus on the actual coins of the skill and that's irrelevant to the numbers it gets.
moron, I'm not sure how hard I need to bash this concept over your head but PM designs skills and skill effects on their own. It won't be any weaker because it doesn't have a [On burn gains +coin power].
>WSault will HAVE to be powercrept eventually (and already has been, by several units) simply because of how pathetically weak he is.
WSault has never been powercrept in terms of numbers. This is what we are discussing. Numbers.
>He's a complete dud you're better off bringing Rosespanner for in terms of Charge teams.
I agree.
>Hell, look at Rosespanner's S3 in comparison, damn that's nice over WSault.
Yep
>No conditions, just frick you damage and a burst tremor tacked on top
Yeah.
>I don't think you understand PM does not understand balance.
I do understand that. The way PM balances things does not always correlate to their actual effectiveness in combat. However, if we want to predict the skills of an ID we should try to balance it like PM would.
>And if Sunshower were any worse he'd literally be unusable.
He has a high-theoretical damage output on all of his skills despite their low maximum value because of his large coin count and minus coins. When you use him, you should take one sided attacks and deal one sided attacks. This activates his sinking, which decreases his SP allowing him to deal more damage. Avoiding clashing also means that he does not gain SP. His large health pool, combined with his low stagger thresholds and EGO means he can do this for quite a while. He's no good by any means, but he's not bad either.

>Then why the frick were you arguing about the coin power effect being relevant to the discussion? It's not, holy frick my man.
WTF are you moronic lol? I just said that her S1 would never be as good as her S2 or S3.
>are you shitting me?
Oh great, we get into another autistic tirade. Let me explain things very clearly for you. I'll take my time so you understand. If you still manage to misunderstand this I'll give up. PM has a very specific way of balancing skill power. To PM, a 5+2+2+2 is equal to a 6+1+1+1, a 4+4+4+4 and a 3+5+5+5. This might not be true in terms of combat effectiveness, or in the way you view balance but it is true in terms of PM balancing. PM will never add a 5+3+3+3 000 S2 without extenuating circumstances like a -20 sanity loss on clash lose because they hate direct powercreeping. And the way PM balances things is what is relevant here because we are discussing. You said that Liu Ishmael could have a 3+3+3 S1. This will never happens because it conflicts with PM balancing. It is a direct downgrade to a 3+5+5 and according to PM balancing is a downgrade to 4+3+3 and 5+1+1 so they will never do it. The only options for Ish's S1s are 3+5+5, 4+3+3, and 5+1+1 because they are in line with PM's balancing rules.
>I think ultimately PM's balance is unpredictable at best, behaviour in the past is not tied to the present.
It is, actually, So far, the only times these rules have been broken is when they are on untrodden ground, like minus coin characters. They didn't understand how to balance minus coin characters and made SiNclair too good. Then they overcompensated and made SSHeath too bad. PM will not deviate with the well-established precedent of Liu Ishmaels skills. We will not see a 3+3+3, a 4+3+3+3 or a 6+2+2+2+2. That is simply delusional.

>Are you? The whole point of that discussion was that the S1 and S2 would BOTH have lower values due to plus coin power.
They wouldn't though. Because PM balances skill effects and skill power separately in almost every case. The closest comparison we have here is RHeath and Outis who can gain clash/coin power with their effects. And their power is* within the establish precedents (*RHeath has extra coins but that's because of ammo, not the +power).
>S3 does NOT have it so they don't have to factor that in when balancing the skill's values.
They don't factor it in in the first place.
>That's what the whole fricking thing was. I think you didn't understand.
Your bottomless stupidity can be difficult to comprehend at times.
>You are not PM and have no fricking clue how they balance things clearly by the post here
I do, I can tell very well based on the precedent set by other IDs.
>They make skills like Cloud Cutter that are TECHNICALLY 2 coin skills for S2 but in reality it's not.
Yes, because they balance skill effects and skill powers separately. 5+4+4 is in line with other 00 S2s and the extra coins are a skill effect.
>They make moronic shit like Mutilate and then in the next breath they make a skill with less than half the coin value because it has 3 less base power.
Again, yes. This is what I have been telling you. The way PM balances IDs doesn't always reflect the actual combat effectiveness of the characters.
>I honestly don't think this one's actually reasonable, 7 is below par.
It doesn't matter what you think is reasonable. it matters what PM thinks is reasonable. And PM thinks it's reasonable because multiple 000s have this skill (NSault and BLClair).
>SunHeath is an outlier in how shit he is,
Yes, as a minus coin unit he's in experimental territory.
Ending this here because I almost hit the word limit. Will continue in next post.

>in almost every case
I like how you put "almost" there because you know this is a complete lie, then you name two of the prime examples of coin power/number being based around other factors.
Anyway, about the S3, yeah you clearly didn't understand what was being said and went on a tangent about something else.
>I do
You do not
>skill effect
for frick's sake, extra coins, plus coin power, etc. are ALL skill effects unless they're passives. This completely undermines the first point.
>does not reflect combat effectiveness
And the whole point was that it's inconsistent and unpredictable. Why the frick would he have 5+30 when the others have stuff like 8+14 or 7+16 for their S3s? It's fricking stupid and you can't definitively predict it based off the previous units. I remember when everyone was celebrating Chef Gregor's prerelease as a good free unit until he came out with an S3 that was a copy of WSault's powerwise.

>the normal value if we have to go by your bizarre "it all will have to match the patterns" reasoning, is usually 8-10 max for a 2 coin 000 S1.
I've already told you to stop looking at the maximum values along. PM takes into consideration minimum value, maximum value and coin count equally. PM balancing rules for 000 two coin S1s are that a +1 increase in base power means a -2 decrease in coin power. This is evident in the fact that 3+5+5, 4+3+3 and 5+1+1 are all 000 two coin S1s that exist in the game. We will (probably) never see a 3+3+3 because that completely defies balancing rules. PM only breaks these rules in very extenuating circumstances.

>equally
Oh, I didn't know you worked there, my bad Monzo, don't frick my rolls up.
Anyway, the max is just a shorter way of listing it. The others are mostly 4+3+3 (i.e. 10). I'm not sure why 3+3+3 would be impossible, the reason explained by you as a "rule" does not seem hard and fast by any metric and rather is something arbitrary you made up. 3+4+4 S1 and 3+2+2 exist and they're fine.
The fact that they "break" these "rules" in some cases means they're not rules at all. They're patterns you're obsessing over and treating like a lawbook, which is stupid as frick.

>I like how you put "almost" there because you know this is a complete lie,
It's not a complete lie, it's true in 99% of the cases.
> then you name two of the prime examples of coin power/number being based around other factors.
I explained how those support my point. Despite 7tis and RCliff gaining power, their skills are still in line with PM balancing. 7tis's 5+5+5 is the same as KHong or KKRyoshu for example. 7tis's 6+2+2+2 is the same as NFaust's S3. In almost every case, PM balances power agnostic towards skill effects, and in terms of +power skill effects this holds true.
>You do not
I do though, and I've proved it.
>for frick's sake, extra coins, plus coin power, etc. are ALL skill effects unless they're passives
Indeed.
>This completely undermines the first point.
No it doesn't. It proves my point. PM decided to give KK hong a 5+4+4 skill like many of the other 5+4+4 00s. Then they decided to let it gain two extra coins under certain circumstances as a side effect. For Liu Ishmael, they will not make her rolls purposefully lower then parity and then boost it up with skill effects. Because as we've seen, they design the skill power and skill effects separately. Liu Ishmael will have a 3+5+5, a 4+3+3 or a 5+1+1 for her S1. Then they will add the bonus power on top. They wont purposely gimp her power and then give it back with the skill effect. They've never done this before.
>And the whole point was that it's inconsistent and unpredictable.
No, as I've demonstrated, it is very predictable and consistent. 3+5+5 to 4+3+3 to 5+1+1 follows a clear pattern (+2 coin power, -1 skill power). Same thing with 3+5+5+5 to 4+4+4+4 to 5+2+2+2 to 6+1+1+1 (+1 coin power, -1 skill power). These patterns are everywhere, you just need to be willing to see then.
>Why the frick would he have 5+30 when the others have stuff like 8+14 or 7+16 for their S3s?

The thread is about to die so I'll just tell you this wait. Wait for Liu Ishmael to release. When it turns it that all of her skills were ones that I mentioned could be possibilities, you can apologize to me. If she actually does get weird shit like 3+3+3 I'll apologize to you to.

Anyways, I'm off to play Rimworld. Cya!

They factored in rate originally as well, and there are clear examples of skills that are balanced around their additional effects, passives, and unit traits, as well as the traits and effects of other skills independent of coin value.
I highly doubt that mutilate's huge value and doubled use effect is completely coincidental when paired together, otherwise shank would have been the s3. Same for deer ish, she's got great s1 and s2 skills to make up for her mind whip being hard to use. They may be bad at balancing but they aren't complete clerks.

Anon... I've fapped on numerous occasions to punishment bird, big bird, and judgement bird. Not fan art of them mind you, but their idle animations in their containment units bobbing back and forth like swaying hips inviting you in. Don't get me started on the possibility of ying and yang coiling around your wiener before meeting together at the tip and sounding downward your urethra. You diminishing the pure sexual appeal of what Project Moon created isn't appreciated

>isn't appreciated
Stopped reading there.

I've got off to some of the vore related abnos like big birds with their bite and king of greeds gaping maw. But I used imagination alongside game visuals so I don't know if that counts.

>appreciated
Stopped reading there

>limbis
>odds
you can straight up farm every id and ego in the game with just the battle pass and not roll the gacha a single time with a bit of effort
its the only gacha i know that lets you straight up farm sparks

District T invented the sport, and yet nobody there can fricking play it

what a cute little wash rat

Sour grappes racoon (Zayin)

Pretty harmless but completely useless after the first days, since the better your agent's gear, the more jealous it gets, leading to a lower chance of good work results.

[Spoiler] sorry anon this is the best thing I could come up with [/spoiler]

It's a better skill yes. But balanced according to PM. For PM, a +1 increase in minimum value is equivalent to a +1 increas in coin value. Which is why there are 000s with 3+3+3+3+3s, 4+2+2+2+2s and 5+1+1+1+1s. I don't understand why you can't accept that PM does not balance things the way you see it. Are you autistic? Can you not imagine people having different opinions from you? This is a genuine question.

Are you trolling then?

>5+1+1
>6+1+1+1
>Potential
Lmao, it's really sad and pathetic when his garbage 00s have better coins than a 000

Cute cope

Still gonna be better than BL Sinclair

The difference is, she can be used in burn teams while 000 Sinclair has 0 use, just like Bane and Wsault and Kuro Rodya

>Poise teams
>A chance for ~20% extra damage per turn
You surely showed me

every 100 damage you deal 20 extra damage
every 500 damage it's extra 100

Now let's see Burn
every 500 damage it's 16 burn damage maybe

lol

It doesn't happen anymore in MD and a ID will fix Poise for everyone

Burn will be shit forever

those are 00 tier numbers, she will have the standard 4+3+3 4+4+4+4

>one of the very first 000s in the game
>before PM even knew how to balance skill to make them good
>none of the new 000s had these numbers since
The only bad 000 they released was sunflower heath but I will cope that it's a negative coin ID made with the roll-backed sanity changes

nclair and spicebush are proof that they know how to make busted IDs when they want

>Complete casuality.
What did he mean by this?

Does a Behelit count as a tool abno?

+30% AoE damage passive for Fox EGO alone makes him not useless.

Oh, you should use him from my friend code comp-
>that image
Nevermind.

>You can use friend's units?
You're so fricking bricked it's unreal.

post the phillip version

>stupid zenagay
what a surprise

Did you actually try using him?

sunshower* heath