Limbus Company

bro even type moon themselves admitted they knew oldschool fans thought FGO was for morons

you're not the one that brought up that whole topic, that was never my point
fate stuff has always had a balance of taking itself very seriously for the chuunishit combined with silly chibi antics, see taiga dojo. I don't care about jokes, and while the FGO ones are particularly cringe, it's not a fundamental problem, just a problem of the writers being terminally unfunny and trying too hard to bait coomers
The REAL problem with FGO writing is that it broke with the tradition of the old VNs of being about characters with strong inner conflicts being faced with tragedy, to replace it with cosmic forces completely taking the wheel of the narrative and the characters just being props in a war they don't really have personal stakes in. You get to meet people and hear their sob stories, but ultimately the scale of the conflict is so big the personal tragedies are drowned in the absolute necessity of protecting existence itself. This is EXTREMELY boring and leads to villains needing completely absurd motivations to work (lion king, goetia). I never read lost belt because by this point I had already lost all interest, maybe it's better, but if it's about cosmic supervillains talkign about wiping the world again I super do not care.

Well, to get back on topic, this is precisely why I appreciate the stories of the project moon games so far, and what we've seen of limbus.
While there are downright silly levels of grimdark and gore porn to the point of the setting making no real sense (are people mass grown in pods in the City, no way so many people die every day and the population doesn't plummet), it's mostly used symbolically instead of literally. The City is an unreal meatgrinder made of pure suffering not because of some supernatural tyrant but because this is what happens to humans when the only spiritual authorities are gang and cult leaders, and the only thing people respect is power and wealth. The library and the light might be supernatural mc guffins capable of world rebooting silliness, but they're just a pretext symbolizing the hope of a better world for various people you get to meet. It's personal and human, even tho it's still kinda silly with the anime bullshit, but I kinda like it that way.

same, even if the fact that it's so over the top makes it trashy and pulpy, I like it better that way, it's more fun

Honestly only the passives were absolute cancer.

Sweeps are a basic feature for gacha these days. It wouldn't be a good look for any gacha to release without them. I'd certainly be questioning a gacha's design decisions if they don't include it; if they're not gonna add basic QoL features, what else is omitted too?

[...]
Discussing gacha at all with most westoids is near impossible.
95% of the time it will devolve into dealing with their own traumas from other games, more often than not from FGO, FEH or E7.
When everything turns into "OMG IT'S GONNA BE X LIKE IN Y GAME, AIIIEEEEEEEEE YOU GUYS ARE moronS FOR WANTING TO PLAY THIS" discussion is functionally impossible.

The same applies when trying to discuss gacha with said gacha community. Arknights recently released another system (modules & module upgrades) that is heavily time-gated and you wouldn't believe the amount of people were defending it when I'd bring it up. A lot of intellectually dishonest arguments. Gacha players are so ingrained in their Skinner boxes that they'll fervently argue against their best interest just to quash any negativity.

There's nothing inherently wrong with an auto play function like Arknights.
However the people advocating to skip the stage and calling it "sweep function" are too far fricking gone.

>There's nothing inherently wrong with an auto play function like Arknights
I disagree. There is no need to waste a player's time and phone battery autoing stages when better solutions have already been implemented. Arknights doesn't even have multi-autoing so you have to baby your phone/emu so you can start another stage when the last one ended. It's not very fun having to wait around with your phone at the start of events so you can finally use up all that sanity you've acquired. To make matters worse, they've clearly shown that they're able to implement sweeps (via annihilation tickets) but are unwilling to do so. No, they'd rather add a limited version of it, along with extra bloat (the skip tickets themselves). This shit also applies for practice plans--chapter 10 made so changes and failed stages refund sanity, but only for the first two weeks.
But to be extremely pedantic, no there is nothing inherently wrong with the "auto play function" as it works as intended.

The complaining was over someone asking PM to at least add a sweep function, and when someone explained how it worked they went insane and acted like it was an auto win button you just get to by default or "you're not playing the game".

That was good bait honestly, just by acting moronic on purpose he made all the anti-gacha people act even more moronic than him.
Also pretty sure the game was already confirmed to have an auto function like Arknights, and even if I understood that wrong the improved space+p is functionally the same thing.

So we aren't sure on sweeps? That's very worrying.

Perhaps; I'm not going to make any judgements on alpha footage. I would certainly be questioning whether I'll bother playing it if it ships without sweeps.

>Arknights recently released another system (modules & module upgrades) that is heavily time-gated and you wouldn't believe the amount of people were defending it when I'd bring it up.
Now you're just being disingenuous and makes me doubt the rest of what you wrote.
It's not any more time gated than levels from passive LMD/EXP are time gated, on top of not being necessary to clear content at all and being bragging rights about liking a certain character a lot.

I don't want you to believe what I say whole-cloth, you should be doubtful of everything you read, especially on Ganker.
My argument stands--it's another heavily time-gated system. I'm quite sure that you get enough sanity/LMD/EXP to keep up with, and max all new operators that release. That is strictly not possible with modules data blocks. Even if you somehow prove that MDBs aren't as bad as I made them out to be, they're still another thing that added to the game that is time-gated, but yes, you don't need them so the system is fine, right?
Upgrades shouldn't need MDBs; upgrades are already expensive enough so if players want to use their already time-gated lmd/exp on modules over E2s or M3s, they should be able to; there should be no need for additional time-gating on top of it.

>It wouldn't be a good look for any gacha to release without them
ENTER EVERY GAME WITH SW/E7 GEARING

I didn't mention rng gearing as I don't even entertain the idea of trying any gacha utilising those systems.

Again, Alpha footage so who knows what it looks like now, but I really hope it'll be kept nice and simple. I really don't like how complex most gacha are to leveling and gearing characters. Gacha is already extremely front-loaded, please keep it to your 20 different currencies but keep the unit leveling/gearing simple.

You can grind LMD/EXP as long as you have sanity (which is plentiful and purchasable).
You cant grind module blocks because there's a hard limit on drops, like anni orundum.

You can also whale for more LMD/EXP/Rolls. You cannot even whale for MDBs besides 4 a month (yellow cert shop).

>game comes out in 6 months, doubt large chunks of systems will change from what they're showing now
i take it you got into PM stuff only after ruina came out of EA?

>their workflow probably got better with money and fame
i take it you missed the dev comments about the final stretch of ruina?
all that changed was they improved the speed they churn out spaghetti code

>to having 3 simultaneous projects
two of which went into hiatus recently, including leviathan, if that's what you mean
they are still at the level of mom's basement dev, they just rented an actual office and a cafe floor, that's it

lol

you don't have to believe me, just look at what they put out vs what they "promise"/say they are working on
they are clearly stretching themselves too thin but at least el director knows when to step back and stop everyone from distorting from overwork

To be fair, they are keeping Leviathan around as a webnovel so it could have been an artist issue.

>Arknights recently released another system (modules & module upgrades) that is heavily time-gated and you wouldn't believe the amount of people were defending it when I'd bring it up.
Now you're just being disingenuous and makes me doubt the rest of what you wrote.
It's not any more time gated than levels from passive LMD/EXP are time gated, on top of not being necessary to clear content at all and being bragging rights about liking a certain character a lot.

>grind LMD/EXP as long as you have sanity

Again, Alpha footage so who knows what it looks like now, but I really hope it'll be kept nice and simple. I really don't like how complex most gacha are to leveling and gearing characters. Gacha is already extremely front-loaded, please keep it to your 20 different currencies but keep the unit leveling/gearing simple.

[...]
You can also whale for more LMD/EXP/Rolls. You cannot even whale for MDBs besides 4 a month (yellow cert shop).

>whale for more LMD/EXP
I'm not even sure if you are saying this ironically or you actually mean it because it's what (you) in particular do to get those resources.
If it's the latter, lol.

With this argument I hope you have more than one page of E2 max level ops.

I was merely proving that MDBs are the most time-gated item in the game, to the point that they're inaccessible to even whales. Go ahead though, continue with your bad faith arguments, I'm sure your boot-licking won't go unnoticed!

game comes out in 6 months, doubt large chunks of systems will change from what they're showing now
and I'm with you, the simplicity is a draw but at the same time it feels weirdly too simple ? Even something as simple as fgo had skillups but I'm really seeing nothing of the sort there. Not that I mind, if they really took FGO's design as inspiration they probably just want a story focused game with no constant grind for ressources and more geared towards events, which I'm all for.

Totally agree. It may be overly simplistic but that's probably the alpha build without all the bells and whistles. I'm curious, what would they have to do to make you not even try/quit the game early?

I am f2p and have over 10k worth of sanity in OP.
If I wanted I could easily grind over 2.5 mil LMD but I don't have to because I have enough resources to raise anyone I want.
I won't ever be able to module everyone I want just like I cant roll every op I want because of time gating. There is a clear difference, you don't need to act moronic.

>But it's cleeeeeeeearly an optional system, you don't need it. [Insert selection bias here to show even that 3*s can clear every stage so you don't even need modules]
I really don't know why they do it.

Given how important dice rolls are in deciding if you win or lose clashes, I find it hard to believe that low rarity runs won't have a hard time. Even if low rarity runs can be done at first, like Arknights, the community will complain that content is "too easy" even though they're using meta units, which will make lower rarity runs a lot harder. 4* clears in AK are becoming increasingly difficult these days, I can see Limbus (or any other gacha) having similar issues.

>a billion fricking daily chores
That was Alchemy Stars for me. Too much too do. They even had a mode that required you to wait till around the end of the week to acquire enough currency to auto through it (Secret Territories); if you wanted to get through it at the start of the week you'd have to manually clear it.

Low rarity could be a huge rng fest where you're constantly resetting runs to get the needed rolls at a critical moment. Imagine if the game only had autos but you've only invested in low rarity; now imagine autos failing because they don't always get the right rolls as your initial clear high rolled it.

Depends on how they balance it honestly. Since you can level up, all identities will probably have a similar level of power, since giving us identities that get stronger along with the story wouldn't make much sense for a gacha.

There'll definitely be power creep, since that's kinda inevitable, no one is able to fully balance out everything without just making it ultra samey, and unless they want to shoot themselves in the foot, nerfing gacha characters is a surefire way to lose fans.

It'll probably be more like, this one identity is more well suited for this one dungeon or boss, or it has an advantage against this one because of element compatibility.

I'm sure the balance will be fine for the first couple of years. It'll only get crazy after that, where they have to introduced mechanics to counteract the meta set-ups. Think of the Surtr equivalent, where things need ways to live through Surtr, but doing so hobbles the usage of any unit that should be doing a similar job to her.
It's unavoidable but at least the main draw is the story. My biggest question is if there will be a transmog-like system for identities?

>Given how important dice rolls are in deciding if you win or lose clashes
Debatable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTjJ2B2Qifw
Once you learn power stacking, your actual rolls become irrelevant.
Which is likely why everyone complains about power null so much, they use power stacking as a crutch too much.
However even without power stacking, people severely overestimate the weight of RNG to win clashes because they don't understand dice ranges.
Singleton cards also tend to have garbage dice ranges, and that's yet another crutch people use, so I'm not surprised the current beliefs about the game are a thing.

They'll likely introduce new mechanics to deal with any over-represented strategy.

I'm aware, but it's quite clear that bosses/stages are built with he in mind these days. Things extend beyond mere invulnerability. I have no idea how they'll address Ch'oom; she does too much to be invalidated. I still can't believe the best unit in the game is a limited.

Nothing you've said goes against what I said. You did do an excellent job at a personal attack, however. Using the boards nomenclature now makes me an idiot, got it!

>Given how important dice rolls are in deciding if you win or lose clashes
Debatable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTjJ2B2Qifw
Once you learn power stacking, your actual rolls become irrelevant.
Which is likely why everyone complains about power null so much, they use power stacking as a crutch too much.
However even without power stacking, people severely overestimate the weight of RNG to win clashes because they don't understand dice ranges.
Singleton cards also tend to have garbage dice ranges, and that's yet another crutch people use, so I'm not surprised the current beliefs about the game are a thing.

Depends on the type of compositions and passives you can get honestly.

> when dodge tanking cheese is a thing and pretty much required in action games at higher difficulties (by not getting hit).
not getting hit is cheese ? first time I hear about it

What kind of idiotic idiosyncratic definition of "cheese" are you operating under ? When people say cheese in a single player game, they're usually talking about a tactic not intended by developers, with the added implication that it is a tactic that requires less "skill" than a "normal" one. If you dodge attacks and do not get hit in an action game, it pretty much says nothing about your tactic because the vast majority of tactics involve not getting hit, dev intended or not, skillfull or otherwise. Very, VERY few action games are designed with the expectation that the play will be trading hits with the enemies.

if it's an intended tactic it just means the game is easy, not that it is cheese

>Given how important dice rolls are in deciding if you win or lose clashes
Debatable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTjJ2B2Qifw
Once you learn power stacking, your actual rolls become irrelevant.
Which is likely why everyone complains about power null so much, they use power stacking as a crutch too much.
However even without power stacking, people severely overestimate the weight of RNG to win clashes because they don't understand dice ranges.
Singleton cards also tend to have garbage dice ranges, and that's yet another crutch people use, so I'm not surprised the current beliefs about the game are a thing.

From what I could tell of the gameplay footage clash numbers seemed super consistent for the same ability, it may be that there's little to no pure RNG and more of a focus on modifiers and careful clashing.

>Anon has a food related distortion
Chocolate bar EGO anon finally has a worthy opponent

Good times

>Chocolate E.G.O.
>Gain +1 Power against enemies with higher distortion and mental instability, (+1 Power for 2 degrees of difference, up to 5).
>At the end of each Scene, halve the stacks of all negative mind related debuffs on self.

Redistribute the tiddies comrade.

whatever you say, mr. spammer

If this were real life I would've given you a bloody nose already. Stop spamming Ganker threads you frick.

>6 hour gap between posts
>spam
You are utterly moronic

lmfao edgelord pulling out his ebin fantasies
did I bully you too hard?
Gonna shoot up a school?

Fake ignorance is still ignorance
Stop being obsessed with reddit. Your spam might be allowed there but not on Ganker

Dumbass

Angela is winning

Nah, I mean if you don't do either of them on your first go-around.