literature:
>roald dahl is great for your formative years, but you should grow out if it at some point
tv:
>avatar is great for your formative years, but you should grow out if it at some point
movies:
>harry potter is great for your formative years, but you should grow out if it at some point
video games:
>mario and zelda are great for your formative years, AND THEY ARE THE PINNACLE OF THE MEDIUM AND YOU SHOULD PLAY EVERY NEW ENTRY NO MATTER YOUR AGE
wtf. grow out of it guys. play the witness or disco elysium or something
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>You MUST stop enjoy things and be depressed like the rest of us
There is nothing more depressing than being trapped by the shit you liked as a child.
My only childhood favourites that remain as my favourites now that I'm an adult are Escape From The Planet of The Apes and the Mobile Suit Gundam novels written by Tomino.
i remember the planet of the apes in my childhood... good times.
Thinking back all the sequels kinda sucked. I guess escape was probably the least suckish of the bunch. Or actually, I remember a lot scenes from 4, the beginning with the circus owner, ceasar picking his name, the uprising part, that speech at the end. Yeah that one was probably better than escape.
The second one, I really didnt like, and 5 was just weak and kind of mild. Maybe I just just sick of the series at that point.
I haven't watched any since I was a kid though. And I never watched the new movie series. Welp thus ends my trip down memory lane.
>mobile suit gundam
What “novels”
The Gundam novel trilogy written by series creator Yoshiyuki Tomino. It was the first Gundam media ever brought over to the West, ended up reading it when it was fairly new at the library.
You can enjoy bing bing wahoo at any age, but at some you have to broaden your horizons.
"Have to" is a strong term. More like "you should be willing to". Or at least be open to it. Nintendo doesn't pander to us mecha lovers, and Xenoblade X is not a suitable replacement for games like Zone of the Enders, or Mechwarrior, or Armored Core. The roguelike audience isn't gonna find much from Nintendo's first parties, the shmup audience will be sorely lacking, the RTS fans will be wanting more. There's just so much out there.
Nobody is saying you can only enjoy bing bing and nothing else. Anti Mariogays are really weird, seriously.
You don't need to become depressed just because you outgrow something. If you think your options are between deeply enjoying Mario and becoming depressed, you're too dependant on media for some fake sense of fulfillment and belonging.
Yawn. I don't play edgelord games.
[Thread has been archived]
i don't read edgelord books (everything that's not on the young adult shelf)
lol im not depressed
>Young Adult stuff
>Not edgelord
>lol im not depressed
Nice cope. Play a fun game once in a while, it'll cheer you up.
i had fun with stray recently, thanks for your concern
>lol im not depressed
You're on Ganker whining about people enjoying things that you don't enjoy. If you weren't depressed you'd have the confidence to ask this question on a more normalgay friendly platform.
i like the immediacy of this platform to bounce ideas and try to find interesting view points that I hadn't considered.
the point is not that roald dahl isn't good, the point is that he wrote children's literature.
>the point is that he wrote children's literature
and if you had matured past age 12 you wouldn't care
You shouldn't, but the point OP is making isn't that.
It's that you shouldn't just keep reading Dahl and should pursue more mature works. You can still appreciate and read Dahl, nothing wrong with that, but if you're in your 20s and the depth of your literary pursuits is Dahl and Tolkein then you either just didn't read past high school or are scared of leaving a comfort zone.
It's funny how many people are completely misreading the OP lol.
I don't know what it is with gamers that makes them see red and just default to this response against any insinuations that they should seek out games that aren't primarily targeted to a general audience.
>if you're in your 20s and the depth of your literary pursuits is Dahl and Tolkein then you either just didn't read past high school or are scared of leaving a comfort zone
there's nothing wrong with this, you're just projecting your own insecurities on everyone else
you are the manchild here
>insecurities
No, it's a genuine flaw with your ability as a reader. You don't want to grow or seek new ideas, you just want to retreat to a comfort zone.
Like I said, there's nothing wrong with returning to media you read as a child, in fact, nobody here has been saying that. Only people like you have been insisting that is what's being said (perhaps out of some form of projection). But, you need to branch out. It's not like you have to go from Lord of the Rings right to Moby Dick or whatever, but you have to consider other works if you want your perspective and ability as a reader to grow.
You don't even need to read typically adult works. I was 23 when I first read Oliver Twist, a children's novel, and it was great. I remember a good section from one of Harlan Ellison's TV spots on how people are obsessed with reading more of the same 'fantasy trilogies' that were flooding bookstores from the 90s to the 2000s, and how these people were completely ignorant of all the great authors being published at the time due to American publishers pushing shit like the latest Star Trek novels or trilogies about dwarves or other stereotypical fantasy.
The difference is, today it's not even on the publishers, it's the people themselves denying greater experiences and depth of interest in their chosen medium.
Again, not saying you can't reread them, but just reading the same shit you read as a kid all the time is antithetical to achieving a greater depth of understanding in the works you consume. You're gonna return to the works you read as a kid and repeat the shit the K-On poster said about them being comfy, or make some surface level comments about base themes that everyone already understands.
>ability as a reader
stopped reading here
pretentious manchild
I mean, so many people here can't read and just spout schizobabble in response. I fully believe reading comprehension is a skill.
You morons are the ones claiming that's all everyone does. It's what the OP is doing.
Likely out of projection on being stuck in the eternal teenager form and neve growing up mentally. Physically means nothing if you're a 42 year old downie.
>literally state that's not what I'm saying and provide supporting ideas for that
>"No you're wrong"
See, this is what I mean by ability as a reader.
>but if you're in your 20s and the depth of your literary pursuits is Dahl and Tolkein
Most people do not appreciate Dahl and Tolkien in any in depth way lmao. I read Shakespeare's "4 tragedies" of Othello, Macbeth, King Lear and Hamlet when I was 16. I probably didn't know how to appreciate them until I was in my 20's. Same thing when rereading lotr as an adult , a lot of it was misses by me because I was too youthful and naive to understand it.
>lol I'm not depressed
Your shit thread on Ganker says otherwise
>reads YA books
>calls other people mentally stunted
Bad bait
>that pic
prompt?
it's just a promo image for the game
don't get hung up on the specific example, we all know that in any other medium besides video games most works that are made for childrem don't tend to appeal to adults
>all know that in any other medium besides video games most works that are made for childrem don't tend to appeal to adults
People love Bluey though and that show is made for pre schoolers.
For a second I thought you were referring to James Cameron's Avatar, but Avatar the last Airbender is still one of the best cartoons the west had made, regardless if it was made for kids or not.
>but Avatar the last Airbender is still one of the best cartoons the west had made, regardless if it was made for kids or not.
Pretty low bar, and even then it's wrong.
It exposes a tendency people have to value the idea of narrative above sound structure. Tom & Jerry and classic Looney Tunes are among the best western cartoons for this reason- they relish in the medium and do everything they can.
Avatar by comparison is dull- it wasn't animated here, it merely apes the stylistic tendencies of another nation while failing to understand the values that make that style work, and tells a story that would be seen as ultimately pedestrian or even outright bad if it were told in a medium with higher standards in that regard.
Very based take. Old cartoons are full of soul and artistry but people are terrified to admit it because they don't want to seem childish and those cartoons were earnestly for children instead of shoehorning in some middle-school philosophy to pander to pseuds.
There is nothing wrong with simple "good guy beats bad guy" stories. Yiik has the most mature and well written story of any game I've played on a literary level
It's not that people are afraid to admit it they just don't value it all that much. Yeah to an animator tom and jerry is the pinnacle of the medium, to the average person its just some mindless schlock they watched as a kid.
This is a take I absolutely don't understand. I have a friend who similarly values cinematography and technique, how a movie looks, over the characters and story, and while he typically likes good stuff I can't see "taking advantage of the medium" as the pinnacle of artistry. It's the graphics homosexualry of other media.
I listed issues beyond just failing to take advantage of the medium, but I think Avatar should be held to higher standards in that regard- same goes for any films taking after the French New Wave, or indeed, any cartoons trying to ape French or Japanese cartoon styling.
Avatar only attempts the 'anime' look at a surface level, but fails to take any of the lessons learned from the many genius creators that came out of Japan- likely because its creators had minimal care for the animation aspect. It was an outsourced show after all, but the point is that anime is a subset of animation that makes amazing use of the limited abilities that formed many early productions- it's why many anime focus so heavily on poses or still shots. It's why a true visionary of the medium like Osamu Dezaki employed ideas like the triple take or postcard memories (before anyone mentions Miyazaki, he was a hyper elite of the industry, going to high level universities and being given free reign at one of the best animation studios basically at the start of his career- he is almost a polar opposite to what the idea of anime really is).
Avatar is just a cartoon that vaguely lifts some aesthetics.
Similarly, its narrative has very little to truly say. Despite lifting from Eastern sources for those aesthetics, even drawing on East Asian literature for how it denotes it seasons, its narrative is as western as it can get, a very typical save the world plot with focuses on classism, drawing on American literature like 1984 in its second season, it has a spurned prince but he's a pathetic young angsty boy, which is more typical of American young adult literature.
And ultimately, despite how little it does with its aesthetics, it tells a narrative completely pedestrian and with very little to truly say, it only serves to distract people from truly great works surrounding it.
Bing bing wahoo is better than No Gameplay Elyisium.
Seethe, commie.
I'm sure any of those could be enjoyed at any age. having said that, mario and zelda bore me.
>you should grow out if it at some point
ironically only manchildren say shit like this
>ironically only manchildren say shit like this
This. Someone who isn't a man child doesn't have to manually "grow up", it just happens with age naturally, I feel like it should be obvious
people are arguing over who would win goku or iron man well into adulthood. if at some point you don't make a conscious effort to engage with stuff that challenges you a bit, you will never grow and mature as a person
Goku.
How is that even a debate?
there hasn't even been a Zelda game since 2011
you're 12 years late
>since 2011
*1993
>*1993
*1986
I think you're confused. There wasn't one between 1986 and 2017 but there's been two since then.
too based for Ganker, they love "narrative adventure games" now.
>the midwitness
>telling anyone else to grow up
The Witness and Disco Elysium suck though. No, I've never played them.
>comparing actual art mediums with digital toys
troony Elysium isn't any less manchild than Mario.
kentucky route zero is art.
Based! I'm going to go back to adulting with Snoy cinemaslop.
>mario and zelda are great for your formative years, AND THEY ARE THE PINNACLE OF THE MEDIUM AND YOU SHOULD PLAY EVERY NEW ENTRY NO MATTER YOUR AGE
I mean, is it the statement wrong? regardless if you like the series or not, they are ones not the sole ones of the foundations of the medium as we know it today.
If you are "too mature" for Zelda and mario you are too mature foer vidya simple as.
i disagree. there are little experiments on itch.io that have more art to them than each inevitable new mario game with a new gimmick and flashier graphics. even something like shadow of the colossus, to me, is in the ballpark of ghibli or something like this. we value an entertaining gameplay loop over artistry, themes, aesthetics, and that's what relegates video games to children's toys when they dont have to be
i enjoy lots of obscure quirky experimental itch games but i still think it's reductionist to say that people only value gameplay because they're overgrown children - movies and books can get away with being uncomfortable/not traditionally entertaining because all you're doing is sitting back and staring at them, games require you to actively engage with the gameplay at all times so a game that isn't fun needs to be a 10/10 in other areas to make up for it. SotC is a beautiful game, sure, but it's remembered as much for the kino colossus combat as it is for the art
and that's not to say that the only form of fun is flashy combat. papers please is a masterpiece because it takes a concept that sounds miserable (inspecting paperwork) and manages to make it engaging enough that you end up putting yourself in the shoes of a strict border inspector just because you want to be good at the game
Pretty sure there are more adult harry potter fans than zelda fans
yeah but it's more universally recognized that adult potter heads are in some kind of arrested development state
im not being pretentious, im calling attention to the kinds of things we value in games compared to other kinds of media, like i explain here
i like the witness and disco elysium and i also like mario and zelda. being pretentious about video games is gay as frick
one of these require effort put in to see the end, the others don't
Meanwhile, in reality...
If Lewis saw a modern Funko Pop/Marvel/Bluey/MLP shrine he would immediately regret this quote.
Well obviously he wasn't yet aware of the corporate religions that would arise.
see
>play the witness or disco elysium
Not my fault the best creators in the medium are making "kid games" while the ones making "adult games" are complete hacks.
>Nintendo
>the best creators in the medium
Their games are as corporate as Disney's shit. If you're still clinging to AAA game studios, you aren't going to find anything actually great.
Nintendo is basically high end AA which are still fine.
Nintendo is a massive corporation. Nintendo makes products, they are not a friend game developer, they are a group of businessmen trying to fine tune the ways they present their media.
The same is true of Sony and Microsoft developed titles. They exist solely to perpetuate the machine.
Yes, your ability as a reader. Your ability to engage with the work and recognize what the author might be evoking or drawing on as motif, to recognize what themes are at play and tug on various ideas yourself throughout the process.
>engage with the work and recognize what the author might be evoking or drawing on as motif
jesus christ lmao
Yes anon, books can have ideas.
Problem is there's no adult video games. It's either colorful toddler bing bing wahoo games or edgy teenager SEX GORE VIOLENCE games. Video games as a medium has capped at the 12+ shounen/South Park/capeshit demographic.
kentucky route zero, norco, eliza, citizen sleeper, the red strings club, gorogoa, papers please, obra dinn, mundaun, umurangi generation, disco elysium...
lmao that made me laugh
No one looks like that and no one has ever said any of those things
yeah i read every new roald dahl story that comes out each year
Roald Dahl is studied in universities, moron. Some English profs' favorite books are Harry Potter and I wouldn't be shocked if they were studied in YA Fiction courses, too.
Legend of Korra was objectively better than Avatar btw
Roald Dahl's books are fricking good though.
and zelda are great for your formative years, AND THEY ARE THE PINNACLE OF THE MEDIUM AND YOU SHOULD PLAY EVERY NEW ENTRY NO MATTER YOUR AGE
"mature" games traded the gameplay to focus on narrative, effectivelly making them less video game. as such mario remains the defacto "pinnacle of the medium"
that's not the point. something like journey is not narrative-driven but it's also not just very polished gameplay. it's about balancing gameplay, narrative, aesthetics, themes, etc.
>stop playing games with actual gameplay, you should grow out of it and play dialogue simulators
Lmao kys Black person
>actually being grown up: taking responsibility and being a genuine and honest person
>what immature people think being grown up is: smoking, swearing, drinking, violence, sex, edge, darkness, depression, anything that's the opposite of "kids" stuff
not my point. bukowski has all these things and it's "grown up" literature, vonnegut doesn't have too many of these things and it's also "grown up" literature. but harry potter is not "grown up" literature and im tired of pretending it is
>roald dahl is great for your formative years, but you should grow out if it at some point
Already wrong. Roald Dahl just gets better as you age when you pick up on the perspective of adults in his works. Comparing Roald Dahl to Harry Potter is just hilarious.
Yeah, because people actually read Harry Potter as adults.
I prefer the childish content like Harry Potter, Avatar, and Zelda.
Content made for children is fun, comfortable, and full of hope.
Content made for adults is a depressing deconstruction of how fricked the world is.
I don't want to hear how fricked we are. The whole reason I'm engaging in entertainment is to escape from this reality.
I think most people do move on from Nintendo OP, but there are lots of people who still read children's ans YA books as adults so they're like the bookgay version of tendies. But there's nothing really wrong with that either so long as its not your whole frickin personality, enjoying stupid kidshit is acceptable me in small doses. My opinion is the only one that matters or is real so that's how it is, the rest of you are fitments of my imagination.
>I think most people do move on from Nintendo
There's no reason to "move on from Nintendo" they make fun and interesting games. If you're worried about the maturity level of the games you play then wtf are doing?
I already smoked meth once today, stop replying to me. I know you're not real.
Damnit he's onto us. Cheese it!
mostly agree with that, but im tired of seeing children's games being heralded as pinnacles of the medium. it's more than fine if you enjoy breath of the wild as an adult, but if that's the best video games can offer then, as a medium, they have a lot of catching up to do. or we're all just getting dumber and losing the ability to interact with challenging content. where's the dostoevsky of games and all that
I think "moving on from X" gives the implication that you look down on it but I've never looked at growing past or moving on from something as a bad thing or as a criticism personally. I think a lot of them should be given the praise they are I don't know about certain ones but to me it is not a condemnation of the thing to have moved on from it. Games are mostly for kids and there is something magical about experiencing a well made product for younger people when you are older and can appreciate other certain aspects of it. I definitely do not play every Nintendo game anymore and haven't for years but every once in awhile I'll pick one up. I think its definitely normal to stop playing most of them or playing them regularly for most people but its just like an individuals own preference, some like to go back to those things a little more frequently.
None of that is true. CS Lewis quote, you know the one. Grow up.
You should learn to ignore the console warriors. Their brains haven't progressed beyond grade school.
>level headed fan
I love Mario and Zelda, and I like to branch out to other games like FTL or Starsector or Terraria. There's plenty to enjoy across the medium
>console warrior
DUDE NOTHING ELSE EXISTS OUTSIDE OF MY CONSOLE! IF YOUR GAME DOESN'T SELL 50 MILLION UNITS, IT'S GARBAGE! KYS troony!
Daily reminder that you should have grown out of shitposting on Ganker in high school.
People are supposed to grow out of swearing too, yet it's super common place even now.
>ANOTHER thread pissing and sharting because people like Nintendo
But I thought this was a Nintendo board?
Mario can be enjoyed by anyone, but Zelda definitely should be grown out of your formative years. Too bad it's like a disease, once you play Zelda once you will always be doomed to be a manchild.
mario can be very enjoyable. i also enjoyed iron man when it came out. but when you see critics discussing the best movies of all time, iron man is not on the list. mario is in every list of best games of all time. its only value is that its entertaining
Probably because film has more artistic depth and history to it than video games? By a lot of decades , in fact
Majora's Mask and OoT are both amazing games, and Zelda 2 is a really good retro game despite what hardcore Zelda fans think about it. Came out around the same time as Castlevania 2 and was far superior. Zelda is a massively influential and important series to the industry so I don't know why people get uppity about people who enjoy it.
Why? What makes Zelda different from any other adventure fantasy game?
Growing out of things is moronic. You should enjoy the things of your childhood the more you grow up.
>the witness
Pretentious garbage.
When I was a kid I watched history documentaries and read nonfiction books.
As an adult I play games and watch anime.
>play the witness or disco elysium or something
I'm curious, OP, what do you think of people who have played, understood, and appreciated both of those games and would /still/ say Mario and Zelda are better? Because you know there's plenty of people who engage critically with video games as an artistic medium and would say BotW is one of their absolute favorite games, while The Witness and DE are just really good games.
>literature:
Dead.
>tv:
Dead.
>movies:
Dead.
>video games:
Well, well, well. See you have some fun with this medium, kiddo? We will fix it.
>all these mediums are DEAD
Stop consuming shit made in the land of fricking burgers. American is a curse on all mediums and this has been known for over 50 years.
>Literature
America makes it all about trend chasing and tie in works, so 80% of American publishers end up focusing on a kid to teenager demographic or alternatively, publish softcore erotica.
>TV
The issues honestly had more to do with emulation of films, which was an American thing.
>Movies
It's funny, because countries like Italy and France have always been infinitely more respectful of this medium, and then you press anyone on this board and at best they've only seen shit made in America or Canada (or maybe Japan, but it'll inevitably something along the lines of a Takeshii Miike film).
>avatar is great for your formative years, but you should grow out if it at some point
Nobody fricking says this.
This whole thread reeks of pretentious pseuds. There's nothing wrong with staying within your comfort zone when engaging in leisure activities as long as you're growing as a person in some other aspects of life.
>YOU HAVE TO LE BRANCH OUT!!!
Funny how I only see this thrown at Nintendo fans, perpetuating the idea that they don't play Non-Nintendo games, when it's been shown time and time again that Nintendo fans own multiple consoles, unlike sony fans who are contempt over buying the next playstation box and nothing else. Here's a novel idea, maybe sony fans should branch out from playing movie games.
to be clear, im op, i think something like god of war or call of duty is infinitely worse in this regard, but these franchises are not held in as high esteem as the nintendo classic franchises.
I once saw a Nintendo YouTuber that had no clue what Grand Theft Auto was and thought Snake was a Smash OC
Your assertation about snoys needing to branch out is true, but tell me with a straight face that you haven't seen Nintendo fanboys who will declare that all non-nintendo games are bad. Or worse, they'll pull that passive-aggressive crap about how
"oh Nintendo just has that magic, maaan. Your games will never compare because they just can't, maaaan". Some of us do like Nintendo games, we even love them. but is it a sin to imply that a non-nintendo game might be better in terms of specific genres or game mechanics?
This is just because Nintendo YouTubers with that attitude have dominated discourse online for fifteen years
This is why video games as a medium are immature.
The people consuming them are locked in a gladiator death match where they die for corporations.
There were multiple centuries where anyone who could read or write English would learn the Bible and Shakespeare and enjoy those books for their whole lives.
If you're an adult and can't enjoy Roald Dahl, Avatar and Harry Potter because they're "for children" you should probably take a step back and review yourself.
this point has been made and refuted multiple times in this thread already
I can't enjoy Harry Potter because it sucks.
>remake a game that didn't need a remaster
>instead of the one that sorely needed it (Adventure of Link)
>even worse, pull a Windwaker-tier gotcha moment with the game looking nothing like footage shown during the storm
>worst of all, somehow make it WORSE than the original
ALL OF MY FRICKING WHY?
The only Nintendo games I enjoy as an adult are Zelda and Metroid. Mario was ludo when I was growing up. I don't think I'll ever get tired of the classic level design of Ocarina of Time or Super Metroid. Trying to play Mario as an adult and... yeah. The bing-bing wahoo meme exists for a reason. Even Super Mario Galaxy, which I adored as a teenager, felt like a Fisher Price toy. I just can't do it.
Luckily Mario games are so short. I can enjoy them as an evening or two of "brain off" entertainment every couple years.
This only works if you have a really pedestrian idea of games and what makes them complex. You assume nintendo games are kiddie because… they are colorful and bouncy? Yet I guarantee you most Mario and Zelda games are more mechanically depth than most AAA “adult” shit like Starfield or Ass Creed. If anything you should grow out of bland shit like Overwatch and LoL and into games that are mechincally deep.
But anon, what about the nuance and richness of the themes in the witness?
that's not true. the new zeldas have a colorful and cozy aesthetic that remind me of ghibli, which i adore. but something like mononoke hime has themes of environmentalism, industrialism, ambition and compassion, nuanced writing and character arcs. whereas breath of the wild has the same plot as ever, underwritten dialogues, a blank slate protagonist and not much to say about anything in particular
Thats because mononoke is a movie and zelda is a video game
why should video games not have artistic value beyond "its fun and mechanically complex"?
Look at what happens when you try to be "artistic".
i detest gow. mediocre storytelling, zero use of the interactive nature of the medium beyond the way you kill people
fair enough. bit why should it be its ONLY value? the game HAS a narrative, why should it be an afterthought?
The artistic value IS the complexity
Why should they? What makes a game good first and foremost is its mechanics. While those things could do nothing but add to a game, it doesn't change the fact that the best games are the ones that best engage the player directly.
>why should they
it's a varied medium capable of being many things, why do you think games should have some kind of universal design?
They shouldn't, but that seems more like the point you're making. A good game doesn't need artistic merit in the forms you're asking for. Again, those things can add value, absolutely, but only once the legwork to be a good GAME is done first.
what about visual novels then?
Not games. They're choose your own adventure books with art. I don't think this is a bad thing, but I never understood why they're lumped in. There is no gameplay, it's just reading. The ever lambasted walking sim is more of a game.
it's not like there's a clear definition of what is a video game, or even just a game
>A good game doesn't need artistic merit in the forms you're asking for
I'm not that other anon, I'm someone else entirely. I think artistic merit can manifest in many different ways, be in through mechanics, visuals or narrative. it all depends on the genre. like I'm not going to go into an adventure game seeking tight mechanics, I'm going to be looking for good writing and puzzle logic that doesn't demand I get a lobotomy to figure it out. but in an action title I would be looking for a tight mechanical experience. to make blanket statements like "the medium would be better if everyone working within focused on X first" is an incredibly silly and narrow minded thing to do, I think.
Fair point anon. I guess what I mean by "mechanics" is how well a game uses its interactivity to engage with the player. I think Outer Wilds for example uses being a video game to tell its story and convey its themes brilliantly. It's not mechanically deep in a traditional sense, but it engages the player in a way that I feel is entirely unique to the medium and could not be accomplished in another. Does that clarify my point at all?
I would say reading isn't a game. And I must clarify I mean this as no slight against visual novels as a medium.
Wow you really soared right over what he said didn't you?
Roald Dahl books
>never change from when you were a child
Avatar TV
>never changes from when you were a child
Harry Potter
>never changes from when you were a child
Video Games
>new versions with completely new stories and mechanics constantly released well beyond from when you were a child
Even with OP's comparisons being fundamentally different - any media that is directed at children but does not also have something engaging for adults is, frankly, shitty children's media.
>all bawd shaming and fat shaming is removed with the rerelease
>has several sequels
>has a Netflix reboot in the making
Dumb fricking Black person have a nice day
>any media that is directed at children but does not also have something engaging for adults is, frankly, shitty children's media.
this, I'm tired of people defending garbage because "it's for kids". when I was a kid I sure as hell didn't like eating shit, why would newer kids?
I was going to get Sonic Superstars and Mario Wonder but you make a strong case OP