Xitter's saying that because Beldam refuses to say sisters, it confirms that she's transphobic, which confirms Vivian is trans.
It's my understanding that in the original Japanese dialogue, Vivian is just an effeminate boy. If this is the case, can anyone direct me to a reliable resource to back this up? I'm sure the wiki isn't going to be much help, I've seen how they handled Bridget.
Vivian's gender is poorly explained, but she does seem to refer to herself in a feminine context. The game never puts her through an arc to have her accept her place as a man, which is actually a huge difference from something like Bridget. People often point to the Goombella tattle, but it's right after Beldam's insults. The way I take it, she's either meant to be a rough trans stand-in or be deliberately ambiguous in terms of gender. The biggest point to her (or him) being a man is the Catch Card in Super Paper Mario, but that's a late game throwaway collectible. Could have easily been a misinterpretation, and even the exact translation there has been up to scrutiny.
If anything, the bigger point would be that Vivian's weird gender status are present in a majority of original translations of the game. Could see English still forgoing that due to potential controversy if anything, but at best you still got to pick out the right details to see Vivian flatout as a boy. At most, he would be a boy who still identifies as a girl or very feminine.
saved this a while back because it was supposed evidence for Vivian being a femboy. It calls him an "otokonoko" i.e. an effeminate boy. I don't see how a source directly from the game is made invalid by being a late-game collectible.
Never denied it paints Vivian as a man. I just pointed out it was a single description from a different game in the series. It's the most damning sign that Vivian isn't unambiguously a woman in Japanese, but it doesn't answer the exact situation quite as well as the original game she was in.
The Three Shadows are sisters. They were originally localized as "Shadow Sirens" in the GCN release. The Switch remake changes it back to Three Shadows. This particular line of dialogue is part of a conversation where Bellem, the blue one, calls into question their relation as sisters because Vivian, the red one, is such a huge frickup. That conversation wasn't referenced in the GCN version, and is also the reason people think Vivian trans: taking "You're no sister" or whatever it was to mean Vivian is not a girl instead of her being essentially disowned.
as expected twitter being insufferable and acting like this is “le epic trans win” even though the full context of this conversation isn’t clear and it could be a minor change
>Ganker >"I hate translators putting refrences in and modern slang" >Also Ganker >FRICK NITNENDO FOR REMOVING BRUCE LEE FROM SUPER MARIO RPG >Ganker >I hate translators when they dont do accruate translations >Also Ganker >FRICK NINTENDO FOR ADDING BACK VIVIAN BEING A FUTA WHICH IS MORE ACCURATE!
Is that all the original dialogue implies, that Vivian just "isn't female"? I've heard a bunch of conflicting info. The one I'd seen the most non-twitter support for is that Vivian was specifically a crossdressing male
vivian is a female, nintendo explicitly confirmed this and the game itself says vivian's a female, it's just morons deliberately mistranslating the context fit their narrative
If they offically confirmed this, I am sure you can show the proof.
1 month ago
Anonymous
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Nintendo of America
Even if this was more than some fricking file with no acutal way to verify NoA is the one that made the change dipshit.
1 month ago
Anonymous
You know the end of PM:TYD? One of the things in the ending was how Goombella described to Mario what his partners in this game are doing currently, after Mario is back in the Mushroom Kingdom. Vivian was also included. And in the Japanese version, at that point, Goombella confirms Vivian is female.
With that, it is possible that Beldam scolded Vivian for something that is roughly translated as "man" (in the insult manner), and that Goombella took that seriously.
1 month ago
Anonymous
This is still not evidence anon, if Nintendo confirmed it offically it should be super easy to show that.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Can you get a screencap of the specific dialogue that says Vivian is female? Because that sounds oddly specific and too good to be true.
1 month ago
Anonymous
"Vivian returned to her sister's village. Since we beat the Shadow Queen, the Three Shadows Group have become completely harmless. And I made Majorin promise me that she wouldn't abuse Vivian. Now, the three sisters can live in peace. Come visit her sometime, OK?"
1 month ago
Anonymous
the scene in question
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxx0q1i-nDHlYQE89Vu3uy6IgO4MCW2c02?si=NzahESH9c1qklSUy
1 month ago
Anonymous
there's... literally a question mark next to the word for sisters. if anything it just makes Vivian's gender even more suspect.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I really think the developers were indeed inspired by transgender people enough to be sympathetic towards them, but also not see them quite as women. Wouldn't be the only time, and it would explain a lot about Vivian. If anything, the hardest part to believe is that they made this kind of character a full-fledged party member.
1 month ago
Anonymous
20 years ago barely anyone cared about them outside porn addicts
1 month ago
Anonymous
Unfortunately it is no longer 20 years ago
Is this just a random comment on a Japanese forum? How is this evidence of anything?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>How is this evidence of anything?
read the last line
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Unfortunately it is no longer 20 years ago
Unfortunately the game is still from 20 years ago.
1 month ago
Anonymous
yet the text you're talking about was written 20 years ago
1 month ago
Anonymous
Yeah, hence why a character inspired by them in Japan of all nations was likely to have some odd traits. The final answer on this won't be in English, but Japanese. We'll see if they keep the gender ambiguity, tone it down, or just pull a Birdo by removing it. We can work backwards from there.
1 month ago
Anonymous
This is still true.
People that embrace gender degeneracy are still porn addicts. They even try to teach children to embrace that shit
1 month ago
Anonymous
vivian is just a crossdresser
there’s hundreds of characters who are crossdressers in japanese media
a trans character would’ve either been a huge man in a dress or a sexy woman who says she used to be a man
1 month ago
Anonymous
Doesn't crossdresser imply dual identity or going back and forth like the love interest from Princess Jellyfish?
1 month ago
Anonymous
The two often seem to overlap.
1 month ago
Anonymous
you're right good xir its a vast conspiracy to hide vivian's real gender
#NoA bodycount
1 month ago
Anonymous
You know NoA has actually been fricking with gender-related dialogue in games for a while now, right? They altered gendered catchphrases in ACNH and more recently made a female character a they/them in Splatoon 3's DLC
If Vivian was more obviously trans, a journalist would have happily confirmed or at least heavily implied that. The fact this line is being glossed over is likely due to it really not changing the overall scene much beyond making it slightly closer to the Japanese text, including the trio's name.
We don't know yet. If Twitter is right, NoA has written Beldam as a heckin transphobe by having her refuse to call Vivian her sister. Or it could just be her disowning her because she's a b***h. Who's to say?
We don't know yet since the screenshot is the only real part we've seen of that scene. Nobody who saw the scene has commented on Vivian's gender, and Nintendo's only press on Vivian so far just refers to her as "her" with no fanfare around it. They can't get around it in every language, but for English nothing's changed so far.
Vivian is a girl. Beldam hates her guts so she calls her a man as an insult. Goombella sees this and thinks Vivian is a man but since she looks like a girl (because she is) she's confused. It's that fricking simple.
Not taking a stance on the character being trans or not, but isn't RELATION WITHELD kind of bad compromise ether way? Wasn't the original dialogue intended to single Vivian out? Now it just seems like all three are dissociated.
as long as vivian fricks mario with her big wiener I don’t care about what pronoun they call her
I just hate how the censorship of the original game is still intact
>They need to be stopped
>Instead of going out and making change I will complain behind a screen all day
Where do I go out and make a change so that Nintendo stops letting schizophrenics localize their games? I'm all ears.
you need to go to your local downtown's park, get a megaphone and some fliers, and start spouting about how gay nintendo is
>Why don’t you just go make your own bank then?
what the matter op your bf didn't gape your butthole today?
Context?
It use to say The Three Shadow Sirens.
I know that, but how does the full scene play out with the new context? What does she call her?
They are no longer the shadow sirens, even though you'd think they would want to call vivian a female more if it's some trans thing
Xitter's saying that because Beldam refuses to say sisters, it confirms that she's transphobic, which confirms Vivian is trans.
It's my understanding that in the original Japanese dialogue, Vivian is just an effeminate boy. If this is the case, can anyone direct me to a reliable resource to back this up? I'm sure the wiki isn't going to be much help, I've seen how they handled Bridget.
Vivian's gender is poorly explained, but she does seem to refer to herself in a feminine context. The game never puts her through an arc to have her accept her place as a man, which is actually a huge difference from something like Bridget. People often point to the Goombella tattle, but it's right after Beldam's insults. The way I take it, she's either meant to be a rough trans stand-in or be deliberately ambiguous in terms of gender. The biggest point to her (or him) being a man is the Catch Card in Super Paper Mario, but that's a late game throwaway collectible. Could have easily been a misinterpretation, and even the exact translation there has been up to scrutiny.
If anything, the bigger point would be that Vivian's weird gender status are present in a majority of original translations of the game. Could see English still forgoing that due to potential controversy if anything, but at best you still got to pick out the right details to see Vivian flatout as a boy. At most, he would be a boy who still identifies as a girl or very feminine.
saved this a while back because it was supposed evidence for Vivian being a femboy. It calls him an "otokonoko" i.e. an effeminate boy. I don't see how a source directly from the game is made invalid by being a late-game collectible.
Never denied it paints Vivian as a man. I just pointed out it was a single description from a different game in the series. It's the most damning sign that Vivian isn't unambiguously a woman in Japanese, but it doesn't answer the exact situation quite as well as the original game she was in.
Don't forget the Jap tattle log of her.
The Three Shadows are sisters. They were originally localized as "Shadow Sirens" in the GCN release. The Switch remake changes it back to Three Shadows. This particular line of dialogue is part of a conversation where Bellem, the blue one, calls into question their relation as sisters because Vivian, the red one, is such a huge frickup. That conversation wasn't referenced in the GCN version, and is also the reason people think Vivian trans: taking "You're no sister" or whatever it was to mean Vivian is not a girl instead of her being essentially disowned.
morons trying to say vivian is transgender because of one line in the japanese version
as expected twitter being insufferable and acting like this is “le epic trans win” even though the full context of this conversation isn’t clear and it could be a minor change
>Ganker
>"I hate translators putting refrences in and modern slang"
>Also Ganker
>FRICK NITNENDO FOR REMOVING BRUCE LEE FROM SUPER MARIO RPG
>Ganker
>I hate translators when they dont do accruate translations
>Also Ganker
>FRICK NINTENDO FOR ADDING BACK VIVIAN BEING A FUTA WHICH IS MORE ACCURATE!
>Futa
So is Vivian supposed to be a hermaphrodite, then?
Well not female so either male pretending to be a girl or a hermaphrodite. Either way the new translation is more faithful.
Is that all the original dialogue implies, that Vivian just "isn't female"? I've heard a bunch of conflicting info. The one I'd seen the most non-twitter support for is that Vivian was specifically a crossdressing male
>a crossdressing male
>male pretending to be a girl
Are you just repeating him.
vivian is a female, nintendo explicitly confirmed this and the game itself says vivian's a female, it's just morons deliberately mistranslating the context fit their narrative
If they offically confirmed this, I am sure you can show the proof.
>Nintendo of America
Even if this was more than some fricking file with no acutal way to verify NoA is the one that made the change dipshit.
You know the end of PM:TYD? One of the things in the ending was how Goombella described to Mario what his partners in this game are doing currently, after Mario is back in the Mushroom Kingdom. Vivian was also included. And in the Japanese version, at that point, Goombella confirms Vivian is female.
With that, it is possible that Beldam scolded Vivian for something that is roughly translated as "man" (in the insult manner), and that Goombella took that seriously.
This is still not evidence anon, if Nintendo confirmed it offically it should be super easy to show that.
Can you get a screencap of the specific dialogue that says Vivian is female? Because that sounds oddly specific and too good to be true.
"Vivian returned to her sister's village. Since we beat the Shadow Queen, the Three Shadows Group have become completely harmless. And I made Majorin promise me that she wouldn't abuse Vivian. Now, the three sisters can live in peace. Come visit her sometime, OK?"
the scene in question
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxx0q1i-nDHlYQE89Vu3uy6IgO4MCW2c02?si=NzahESH9c1qklSUy
there's... literally a question mark next to the word for sisters. if anything it just makes Vivian's gender even more suspect.
I really think the developers were indeed inspired by transgender people enough to be sympathetic towards them, but also not see them quite as women. Wouldn't be the only time, and it would explain a lot about Vivian. If anything, the hardest part to believe is that they made this kind of character a full-fledged party member.
20 years ago barely anyone cared about them outside porn addicts
Unfortunately it is no longer 20 years ago
Is this just a random comment on a Japanese forum? How is this evidence of anything?
>How is this evidence of anything?
read the last line
>Unfortunately it is no longer 20 years ago
Unfortunately the game is still from 20 years ago.
yet the text you're talking about was written 20 years ago
Yeah, hence why a character inspired by them in Japan of all nations was likely to have some odd traits. The final answer on this won't be in English, but Japanese. We'll see if they keep the gender ambiguity, tone it down, or just pull a Birdo by removing it. We can work backwards from there.
This is still true.
People that embrace gender degeneracy are still porn addicts. They even try to teach children to embrace that shit
vivian is just a crossdresser
there’s hundreds of characters who are crossdressers in japanese media
a trans character would’ve either been a huge man in a dress or a sexy woman who says she used to be a man
Doesn't crossdresser imply dual identity or going back and forth like the love interest from Princess Jellyfish?
The two often seem to overlap.
you're right good xir its a vast conspiracy to hide vivian's real gender
#NoA bodycount
You know NoA has actually been fricking with gender-related dialogue in games for a while now, right? They altered gendered catchphrases in ACNH and more recently made a female character a they/them in Splatoon 3's DLC
Could you provide a source on that?
all me btw
Vivian is going to destroy all discussion of TTYDR
You mean Ganker is going to destroy discussion because of cultural war grifting
This. Thankfully, people are learning just to let containment threads let people rage off while others actually discuss the damn game.
grift really is just the new buzzword, isn't it. who exactly is turning a profit from us calling out localizers' bullshit on a Ganker thread?
Buzzword? You stupid homosexual.
Ganker is gonna be mindbroken over Vivian no matter what ends up happening, and I'm here for it.
It's gonna be funny for one day then it's gonna fricking suck seeing threads about it for months
Hi Ganker, I'm going to overreact to a single screenshot from a single line of a game
>30fps
>vivian is now a total troony
yea i'll keep playing the original on dolphin
I don't get it, this matches the Japanese script more. It's meant to be denigrating to Vivian.
>this matches the Japanese script more.
it doesn't
it does, it fits the original context better
doesn't make it a good translation
This is why the "localization" discourse is such trash. You get what you ask for and still complain.
>You get what you ask for
i didn't ask for this
can someone find this in the original
>delocalize
>Ganker still throws a culture war fit
?
the original Japanese text for this scene
that's the line before
Nooooo not my hecking Nintendtoddler slop!!!
If Vivian was more obviously trans, a journalist would have happily confirmed or at least heavily implied that. The fact this line is being glossed over is likely due to it really not changing the overall scene much beyond making it slightly closer to the Japanese text, including the trio's name.
Explanations on R34 aren't a reliable source, anon.
yes it is
>rule 34 comments are now sources
zoomers need to be genocided
I recognize that shade of green!
I don't know. Op is acting pretty SUS
We don't even know what she says beforehand.
I wouldn't be shocked if this is the route they double down on in the remake, at least in several languages.
>isn't it?
Why do the Japanese talk about this like it's not concrete ether?
it's considered polite to make yourself sound unsure even if you are
aren't*
Wait so the new localization doesn't validate the trans shit at all?
we don't know yet, so far it's completely ambiguous
We don't know yet. If Twitter is right, NoA has written Beldam as a heckin transphobe by having her refuse to call Vivian her sister. Or it could just be her disowning her because she's a b***h. Who's to say?
We don't know yet since the screenshot is the only real part we've seen of that scene. Nobody who saw the scene has commented on Vivian's gender, and Nintendo's only press on Vivian so far just refers to her as "her" with no fanfare around it. They can't get around it in every language, but for English nothing's changed so far.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Vivian is a James Charles.
Vivian is a girl. Beldam hates her guts so she calls her a man as an insult. Goombella sees this and thinks Vivian is a man but since she looks like a girl (because she is) she's confused. It's that fricking simple.
Tell that to Xitter and the localizers who share their mental illness
Not taking a stance on the character being trans or not, but isn't RELATION WITHELD kind of bad compromise ether way? Wasn't the original dialogue intended to single Vivian out? Now it just seems like all three are dissociated.
Marilyn is likely just used to it, and directly doesn't speak up to Beldam. Vivian is way more reactive, making her an easier target.
>So long Black person homosexual Bowser you subhuman piece of shit! Burn in hell!
I miss old Nintendo...
he said heck, don't lie
koopa*
>hell
fricking lying piece of shit
as long as vivian fricks mario with her big wiener I don’t care about what pronoun they call her
I just hate how the censorship of the original game is still intact
Ganker you told me she was going to be cis again
you lied to me....
>Literally bridget 2.0
i hate hate hate VIDEO GAMES
Then frick off and leave the board.
>caring about ArcSISSY drama
>when you could be gooning to Poison japanese wiener
K
What do Mario and Vivian even do while under the shadow?