USA, it's a full fledged game with all new mechanics and gameplay building on prior concepts, rather than the half-hearted rushed to market standalone expansion with cranked up difficulty that is the original SMB2.
This isn't even to say the original SMB2 is a bad game, because it isn't, it's still SMB, but it's not particularly bold as far as sequels go.
He means Dookie Dookie Punchbowl.
USA. it's an incredibly well-designed platformer, and i'm surprised more games haven't copied it
mario usa improves on doki in all aspects
>i'm surprised more games haven't copied it
Same. The core mechanic of getting on top of enemies and lifting them, then throwing them at other enemies, or pulling random vegetables (or surprises) out of the ground to pelt enemies with, that shit is very fun and I wish there had been another Mario game which played like that.
Some do have some grabbing and throwing mechanics, but not to the same extent, it's never the main focus of 'combat.'
>mario usa improves on doki in all aspects
Its the exact same game just with a sprite swap
It handles and plays better. Since the game was basically finished already they put in more polish and refinement into it while converting it into a Super Mario game (and not just in the graphics). The resulting game is much nicer for it.
I'm so tired of hearing this that I'm going to go ahead and say that even if it was JUST Doki Doki Panic without the Mario characters, I'd still pick it over Lost Levels.
Wasn't the story that they were told to make a licensed game mario-like to bring the brand of whatever license doki doki was and Nintendo together? They also had some of the same devs as the first game, so it was natural to want to make the game a Mario game eventually after that licensing event ended anyway.
>From a game dev perspective, Doki/USA was always the true 2.
I feel like Doki Doki Panic had a bigger influence on the later games in the series, more so than SMB2J did. SMB3 and SMW took a lot of game play elements from Doki Doki Panic. I don;t think SMB2J would have ever sold well in the western markets. Especially not a $60 dollar price point, given that SMB1 was primarily a pack-in game that most people got with their NES's. It looks like a ROM hack of SMB1, it doesn't use any advanced MMC's. Doki Doki could have never been sold in the west, given that it was a promotional game for some tech fair event in Japan.
>From a game dev perspective, Doki/USA was always the true 2.
I feel like Doki Doki Panic had a bigger influence on the later games in the series, more so than SMB2J did. SMB3 and SMW took a lot of game play elements from Doki Doki Panic. I don;t think SMB2J would have ever sold well in the western markets. Especially not a $60 dollar price point, given that SMB1 was primarily a pack-in game that most people got with their NES's. It looks like a ROM hack of SMB1, it doesn't use any advanced MMC's. Doki Doki could have never been sold in the west, given that it was a promotional game for some tech fair event in Japan. #
It literally was the true 2, it started out as a Mario game, then became Doki Doki, then became Mario again
>It literally was the true 2, it started out as a Mario game, then became Doki Doki, then became Mario again
Yeah, there's that too. The problem is with SMB2j, is that if NOA released the game in 1987-1988, it would have looked a bit too primitive up against the third party offerings of the time. I love SMB2, as a hard mode sequel to SMB1. But, I feel like Nintendo would have had to give the game an overhaul for the NA market. SMB2 is weird in some ways, with no 2-player and the option to choose between 4 different characters. It uses MMC3, for multi-directional scrolling and bigger stages. Has nice cartoonish graphics. It just looks more appealing for a 1988 release.
Super Mario Bros. 2 Japan doesn't even feel like a 'new' original Mario game. It reuses too many sprites and tiles from the first game, doesn't have any new music tracks. It only adds a couple new enemy types and poison mushrooms, and just has harder stages. I think they could have released a second edition of Mario 1 with Mario 2 J on the same cartridge. Selling it alone would have not helped the Mario franchise much in the west.
My first time playing The Lost Levels was with Super Mario All Stars, and to be honest, It never really filtered me at all. Then I replayed it on Super Mario Bros. Deluxe for the GBC, it is a bonus hidden game called Super Mario Bros. for Super Players. But that version was altered in spots to make it easier for the cropped GBC screen. I also remember getting the NES as a Christmas present, and there was an ad for Nintendo Power Magazine that was included with the instruction manual that actually had a screenshot of Super Mario Bros. 2 JP featuring the poison mushroom. I never knew what that was about. Did not play the original until emulation. I think it's a nice 'hard mode' edition to the original Super Mario Bros. But I could never see this game being sold at a $59.99 price tag, back in the day. It seemed too much like an expansion pack to be its' own game. I don;t think it would have helped the Mario Franchise as much as Doki Doki Mario Madness did.
You're not supposed to get sucked up when you break a brick and get completely stopped by the next one, you're supposed to bounce back down and keep your horizontal speed
I'm the anon you replied to. This is a good webm that explains the point well. So, granted, I'm not that big of a 2D Mario fan, but I'm also not hitting the bricks when I'm trying to fricking jump on enemies like in your webm.
That is, this issue makes almost no difference to me, since it doesn't seem to affect how I play, but I think I understand why it makes you hardcore Marioheads mad, and that's all right.
>but I'm also not hitting the bricks when I'm trying to fricking jump on enemies like in your webm
It's impossible to jump on the goombas without hitting the ceiling in that webm. It's crazy how much people are willing to defend All-Stars when it has a major flaw that makes the gameplay worse
Saying that devs picking up one of their games to make an enhanced version equals to "a romhack" is so fricking stupid. You probably thinks they didn't have the source and just edited shit in FCEUX and YYCHR huh?
USA, it's a vastly superior game with much more to it than muh difficulty. Anyone saying JP is just difficulty-wanking, it's not even as good as SMB1 on a design quality level.
Super Mario 2 is a rom hack of Doki Doki Panic so Lost Levels is the defacto winner as its actually Super Mario Bros
>Super Mario 2 is a rom hack of Doki Doki Panic
source?
>chinese bootleg is a source
USA, not sure how this is even a question
It's built from the same game but it's definitely more than just a "rom hack"
Doki Doki Panic has different characters who handle in their own ways. It would be like saying Doom is Sonic Robo Blast 2.
It is Doom, just with a furgay coat of paint.
USA, it's a full fledged game with all new mechanics and gameplay building on prior concepts, rather than the half-hearted rushed to market standalone expansion with cranked up difficulty that is the original SMB2.
This isn't even to say the original SMB2 is a bad game, because it isn't, it's still SMB, but it's not particularly bold as far as sequels go.
He means Dookie Dookie Punchbowl.
>i'm surprised more games haven't copied it
Same. The core mechanic of getting on top of enemies and lifting them, then throwing them at other enemies, or pulling random vegetables (or surprises) out of the ground to pelt enemies with, that shit is very fun and I wish there had been another Mario game which played like that.
Some do have some grabbing and throwing mechanics, but not to the same extent, it's never the main focus of 'combat.'
It handles and plays better. Since the game was basically finished already they put in more polish and refinement into it while converting it into a Super Mario game (and not just in the graphics). The resulting game is much nicer for it.
USA. it's an incredibly well-designed platformer, and i'm surprised more games haven't copied it
mario usa improves on doki in all aspects
>mario usa improves on doki in all aspects
Its the exact same game just with a sprite swap
completely false. doki doki panic doesn't even have a run button
they even added clawgrip
https://tcrf.net/Super_Mario_Bros._2_(NES)/Changes_from_Yume_Koujou:_Doki_Doki_Panic
Sadly it lacks the "finish with everyone to get the ending".
Why lie?
I'm so tired of hearing this that I'm going to go ahead and say that even if it was JUST Doki Doki Panic without the Mario characters, I'd still pick it over Lost Levels.
The thing is Doki Doki Panic started out as a concept for a Mario 2, but was then later reworked as a licensed game. Mario USA is the real Mario 2
THIS how do people still not know this?
Mario 2 JP is to me something akin to the Zelda second quest, whereas USA is an actual sequel
Don't care. Mario USA is an official Nintendo game of an official Nintendo franchise officially sold by Nintendo and it's better than JP SMB2
It's plagiarism.
Wasn't the story that they were told to make a licensed game mario-like to bring the brand of whatever license doki doki was and Nintendo together? They also had some of the same devs as the first game, so it was natural to want to make the game a Mario game eventually after that licensing event ended anyway.
But the Lost Levels is also a rom hack, and a bad one too. It's barely an expansion for the first game.
>Super Mario 2 is a rom hack
And Lost Levels FEELS like a rom hack
>filtered by the wind
Many such cases.
If I had to choose, 2USA, but LL is great too, still never could 1cc it while I never run out of lives in 2 (thank these cherries)
>Jap 2, so good it pretty much always just gets shoehorned in as extra content for SMB1 and hardly ever on its own
From a game dev perspective, Doki/USA was always the true 2.
>From a game dev perspective, Doki/USA was always the true 2.
I feel like Doki Doki Panic had a bigger influence on the later games in the series, more so than SMB2J did. SMB3 and SMW took a lot of game play elements from Doki Doki Panic. I don;t think SMB2J would have ever sold well in the western markets. Especially not a $60 dollar price point, given that SMB1 was primarily a pack-in game that most people got with their NES's. It looks like a ROM hack of SMB1, it doesn't use any advanced MMC's. Doki Doki could have never been sold in the west, given that it was a promotional game for some tech fair event in Japan.
>Doki/USA was always the true 2.
>
I feel like Doki Doki Panic had a bigger influence on the later games in the series, more so than SMB2J did. SMB3 and SMW took a lot of game play elements from Doki Doki Panic. I don;t think SMB2J would have ever sold well in the western markets. Especially not a $60 dollar price point, given that SMB1 was primarily a pack-in game that most people got with their NES's. It looks like a ROM hack of SMB1, it doesn't use any advanced MMC's. Doki Doki could have never been sold in the west, given that it was a promotional game for some tech fair event in Japan. #
It literally was the true 2, it started out as a Mario game, then became Doki Doki, then became Mario again
>It literally was the true 2, it started out as a Mario game, then became Doki Doki, then became Mario again
Yeah, there's that too. The problem is with SMB2j, is that if NOA released the game in 1987-1988, it would have looked a bit too primitive up against the third party offerings of the time. I love SMB2, as a hard mode sequel to SMB1. But, I feel like Nintendo would have had to give the game an overhaul for the NA market. SMB2 is weird in some ways, with no 2-player and the option to choose between 4 different characters. It uses MMC3, for multi-directional scrolling and bigger stages. Has nice cartoonish graphics. It just looks more appealing for a 1988 release.
Super Mario Bros. 2 Japan doesn't even feel like a 'new' original Mario game. It reuses too many sprites and tiles from the first game, doesn't have any new music tracks. It only adds a couple new enemy types and poison mushrooms, and just has harder stages. I think they could have released a second edition of Mario 1 with Mario 2 J on the same cartridge. Selling it alone would have not helped the Mario franchise much in the west.
Just admit you got filtered.
>Just admit you got filtered.
My first time playing The Lost Levels was with Super Mario All Stars, and to be honest, It never really filtered me at all. Then I replayed it on Super Mario Bros. Deluxe for the GBC, it is a bonus hidden game called Super Mario Bros. for Super Players. But that version was altered in spots to make it easier for the cropped GBC screen. I also remember getting the NES as a Christmas present, and there was an ad for Nintendo Power Magazine that was included with the instruction manual that actually had a screenshot of Super Mario Bros. 2 JP featuring the poison mushroom. I never knew what that was about. Did not play the original until emulation. I think it's a nice 'hard mode' edition to the original Super Mario Bros. But I could never see this game being sold at a $59.99 price tag, back in the day. It seemed too much like an expansion pack to be its' own game. I don;t think it would have helped the Mario Franchise as much as Doki Doki Mario Madness did.
new
USA since its actually an enjoyable game
If it wasn't for USA Mario 2 would Luigi have been portrayed as the taller skinner brother?
there isnt a single thing lost levels does better than doki doki mario USA madness, only a contrarian would pick LL
challenge is that single thing obviously
they're both great games
what about
NES Lost Levels vs. All-Stars Lost Levels
and
NES Mario 2 USA vs. All-Stars Mario 2 USA
>muh bricks
There. Debate over.
All-Star is only acceptable if patched to fix the brick shit. Unironically unplayable otherwise
Plays fine to me (though I grew up with a Genesis, not an NES).
>Genesis
Even Genesis does Mario better than snes.
You're not supposed to get sucked up when you break a brick and get completely stopped by the next one, you're supposed to bounce back down and keep your horizontal speed
Don't really care.
Don't care that you're moronic. All-stars is shit
Crazy how all star casuals will still defend this.
You're clearly not a fan of the game and shouldn't be posting.
Isn't there something with All Stars Lost Levels that makes it the overall harder game? Something like faster enemies in the last few levels?
I'm the anon you replied to. This is a good webm that explains the point well. So, granted, I'm not that big of a 2D Mario fan, but I'm also not hitting the bricks when I'm trying to fricking jump on enemies like in your webm.
That is, this issue makes almost no difference to me, since it doesn't seem to affect how I play, but I think I understand why it makes you hardcore Marioheads mad, and that's all right.
>but I'm also not hitting the bricks when I'm trying to fricking jump on enemies like in your webm
It's impossible to jump on the goombas without hitting the ceiling in that webm. It's crazy how much people are willing to defend All-Stars when it has a major flaw that makes the gameplay worse
I need the continues, okay? You big Mario meanie.
Saying that devs picking up one of their games to make an enhanced version equals to "a romhack" is so fricking stupid. You probably thinks they didn't have the source and just edited shit in FCEUX and YYCHR huh?
Both
LL, but SMB2 is good. 1 and LL are the funnest NES Mario games.
USA A-OK
USA, it's a vastly superior game with much more to it than muh difficulty. Anyone saying JP is just difficulty-wanking, it's not even as good as SMB1 on a design quality level.
I dislike both so Mario bros 3
smb2 is smb2
lost levels is just dlc for smb1