Anon, she's had a hard life
let dream
I would pamper Maria to make up for her bad times with the Black Witch, even though the Witch might truly love her, she's still way too volatile towards Maria
Hey Maria
I played Umineko for the first time last year and regretted not doing so in realtime. Not because it was good, it was fricking trash, but because the final parts with the author making the characters literally fight internet posts gave me the impression that there were probably glorious bouts of internet shitposting back in the day that I missed, and that seems like it would've been way more fun than the game itself.
>STOP DEDUCING USING LOGIC YOU HAVE NO LOVE YOU STUPID SHEEPLES
really motherfricker?
Anon, she's had a hard life
let dream
I would pamper Maria to make up for her bad times with the Black Witch, even though the Witch might truly love her, she's still way too volatile towards Maria
People say that the final message of Umineko is an embrace of escapist fantasy, but I am not sure if that is the case. Yes, using fantasy to cope and deal with the weight of tragedy is often used, but I didn't get the message that this is where one has to stay.
The antagonistic figures in the story DID use the truth against the escapists, but the truth was not of any importance to the antagonists. A perfect example being Bernkastel and Erika vs Natsuhi. Natsuhi is clearly delusional, and is trapped in a web of falsehood, but the witches exposing her were not trying to bring her to the truth. Instead, they merely pointed out where she was wrong, and used the weakness that resulted to push her on to yet another falsehood. Just the same, the "goats" in the story too, didn't really care much for what actually happened on the island. Instead, they were just trying to impose a solution that best fit their tastes. Exposing lies just to seed more lies. This is the sort of cruelty that the story was attempting to condemn, rather than the truth itself.
I do feel that Umineko stumbled in its attempt to convey this, especially with the ending. I don't think the choice should have been the way it was. Rather, I think that truly letting go, and forgiving those involved, would have been the best course of action.
>THE ANSWER IS BOMBS! TINY BOMBS IN THE SOUP! SMALL BOMBS THAT KILL EVERYONE WHO EAT IT (except the people who didn't)
nah the moral of the story is that the people who care about the story are idiots.
>Rather, I think that truly letting go, and forgiving those involved, would have been the best course of action.
This is how it is, at least in the manga. Some say that opening Eva's diary would be disrespectful to the dead.
Erika is just another figment of imagination, of "what could have" happened on Rokkenjima.
Erika is like the representative of "it's a murder mystery - detective" people, while Battler is anti-fantasy's (the average fun reader who comes up with batshit insane non-fantasy solutions), and we have the fantasy (everything was caused by witches and daemons), at least that's what I got from the thing
I'm reading the VN after finishing the manga, and I'm having fun, it goes into details that I kinda brushed over in the manga
I don't think it stumbled in its attempt to convey it, i think that ultimately the message is something that someone who is wired a certain way just won't be able to intake because it's just fundamentally opposed to their world view which is why Chiru is so controversial/disregarded by some people
You can pretty much substitute a lot of the plot elements for religion and suddenly all the people who think Erika/Goats are justified in the actual scope of the plot makes a lot more sense
It is largely analogous to religion, though battler straight up says after saying that magic is real, that he is lying about it. I don't know of any religion that straight up admits: "Yeah we made it all up, but that's not the point, the actions (or ethics) you make once you believe are". At best I've heard about Buddhist monks say that reincarnation isn't real, but even that is hardly the mainstream Buddhist position. Maybe atheistic israelites have something similar going on, IDK.
>I do feel that Umineko stumbled in its attempt to convey this
No, people are just goats, anyone who hates the ending either genuinely has no soul or has the IQ of Battler.
Bern and Lambda are just two powerful witches fricking around. Lambda sticks to the magic side, Bern to the mystery side. Since Battler and Ange changed alignments in the end, it turns out they go against Bern while Lambda becomes their friend.
People don't like it because they fundamentally disagree with it. The truth does not only belong to victims and can be used whichever way you wish, and being a hardcore truth-seeker does not turn you into a cartoon villains like Erika. The "lessons" Umineko tries to teach are absurd and have no real-world application. It comes off as the author sniffing his own farts and fighting strawmen.
>The "lessons" Umineko tries to teach are absurd and have no real-world application.
But they do.
t.used magic when I was little >The truth does not only belong to victims and can be used whichever way you wish
Truth seeking ruined Ange's life. >hardcore truth-seeker does not turn you into a cartoon villains like Erika
This is not what Erika is, you imbecile.
Considering how mentally unwell and self loathing she was at that point, in her mind yes
Did she not do it so Battler would not find out about her fricked body?
Battler isn't the one who was always badgering her about muh kids so I doubt it. She was already suicidal and seeing an island full of people killing each other partly due to her actions probably didn't help
>She was already suicidal and seeing an island full of people killing each other partly due to her actions probably didn't help
Yeah probably this.
Battler is a good guy, I'm sure he will understand.
They kissed (and married in the meta world) afterall
They could have raised baby Ange together :3
>I'm sure he will understand.
I think so as well, but she hated herself over it and wanted to remain ideal in Battlers mind. She found her salvation when Battler dove in after her.
>She found her salvation when Battler dove in after her.
also >When the last banquet happens, Battler finally uniting with her >The Witch's Portrait, something that strikes uneasiness in the reader goes 180 and becomes a lasting beauty over the course of Umineko >"Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice"
I had never witnessed something so endearing. I was fricking crying over a manga/vn at 26 yo, frick
Gohda trying to hide jessica's body after his stakes of purgatory juggling act goes wrong.
Every now and then I kinda wish they'd shell out for a proper animated adaptation but it's also one of those things where I feel like it would never actually be able to match up to the game because of how differently you'd digest it
It will never happen, even if you cut out some of the fat you could never make an umi adaption on the level of the VN without it being 200+ episodes, any adaption would have to gut the story DEEN style unless it got billionare funding.
I could be misremembering but was the whole thing with Kinzo disappearing whenever he needed money and then coming back a day later with a new master plan not talked about?
everyone left over always died at exactly 12, no matter where they were on the island. In chapter 1 after the clock strikes 12 battler sees golden butterflies despite being the detective, presumably because the second the clock struck he was blown up without time to process it and the detective rule no longer applied?
The fact that police in 1998 call it an accident. The fact that no remains were found besides a piece of Maria's jaw in episode 1. The goats in episode 2's ending symbolize the explosion. Beatrice's mystery at the end of episode 4.
It was a pretty common theory when the game was still ongoing. It's easy to theorize if you have prior knowledge of Higurashi, since Ryukishi tends to echo ideas from his other works. In Ciconia, there is probably something similar happening, but on a global scale.
Unironically Battler's small bomb theory about everyone dying at the table together. It even gets constantly brought up again and again as a stupid theory in 5-6. It puts the idea of the true answer (on a small scale) in the players head whilst also dismissing it as ludicrous as to throw them off.
There's a few things; The mass media and the police call it an accident in 1998; the disappearance of the small temple which the characters take as a bad omen and which Kumasawa infers was done by a lightning; by the ending scene of episode 2 you can kinda infer something is wrong, the golden butterflies and goats runinng amok the island are a result of the explosion that's occurring; and most importantly, Ange's description of the area when she visits in EP4. She never mentions a mansion anywhere, and she keeps mentioning how she's going down to get closer, as if she's going down into an explosion crater.
Every now and then I kinda wish they'd shell out for a proper animated adaptation but it's also one of those things where I feel like it would never actually be able to match up to the game because of how differently you'd digest it
I have zero interest in there being an english dub, but there probably would have been some physical rewards and that would have been nice to have. same reason I want another umi anime even if it's as bad as sotsugou. there's like no fricking umi merch
but they never existed. In the «true route» they never appeared or got mentioned at all. They only appeared in the routes written by beato/battler/hachijo
Genji handled the schedules of the servants, kanon and shannon are barely ever sharing the same working days and are only doing so during the game because of how important the family visit is. Nanjo and Kumasawa are constantly helping with the facade. Kanon is anti-social and avoids everyone so the only family members who get the chance to properly interact with him are krauss, natsuhi and jessica. Natsuhi talks about how she avoids being around the male servants to avoid spreading rumors, Krauss is busy selling crypto. Jessica barely talks to him before inviting him to the concert, but does suspect something briefly, she then decides that the boy she likes just looking a lot like her best friend sans massive breasts makes more sense than a shizo crossdressing conspiracy.
Even if they did it would be irrelevant to the gameboard
Besides they all but state they're just personas she was trying to choose between and that Yasu prime chose 'Shannon' because she gave up on Battler and Jessica's shit was more half-assed
Shannon was chosen because Ryukishi was butthurt that Kanon was more popular.
He did this with Higurashi too. Gave Mion less because she was popular, decided to ruin Satoko with gousotsu because she wasn't popular.
They aren't. As long as by the time the 4th game is released, there are no errors, you can still solve it. The logic error is put into the game as a confession by him that he changed things as he went along.
You are just tard
YASU IS FEMALE
KINZO AND WILLIARD CONFIRM
So I get that Shannon/Kanon were Yasu swapping between identities and stuff in Episode 1, but they're actually characters in Ep 2 onwards right? Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice all split into 3 different people and were made "real" when they became pieces? At the very least, I feel like they're never seen together in Ep 1 but they are in Ep 2 onwards
Kinzo also lied to Willard about stealing the gold. We've gone over this, you're wrong. Nobody reads your bullshit because it's bullshit.
What did he change exactly?
I distinctly recall his approval with thr Japanese fandom having problems as early as game 3 because people called out the shkanon trick and he weaseled around how he could use their bodies to throw people off.
I found out I was severely moronic when I finished umineko and read the wiki and found out they were Beatriche. I didn't understand what the frick I was reading for the entirety of the last 2-3 episodes
>How does Shannon being a robot mean she's beatrice? That part doesn't allude to it at all >previous episode ended saying there are less people on the island then there should be. >somehow kanon was not in the closet. >Will notices that he hasn't seen them together, asks for her to get kanon and she instead starts acting creepy and trying to sneak off to the backroom.
The reveal of the actual number of people on the island after the closet mystery is supposed to be the shoedrop moment where you realise what's going on if you haven't already figured it out, chapter 7 is just confirming it and fleshing out more of the motive.
I was there having a mental breakdown, it was so weird I remember feeling strange, like I was having a dream.
[...]
Umineko has some of the most pseudointellectual low IQ writing and its fans are pseudointellects that shit on people who didn't enjoy the story because they recognize it was written sloppily and not worth their time. The pacing after EP3 is horrible
I definitely think the pacing could be better and it's pretty blatant how the story got worse when it stopped being about Beatrice.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I was there having a mental breakdown, it was so weird I remember feeling strange, like I was having a dream.
I myself was actually a new fan and had binged the old canon Higurashi seasons (sorry for not reading the VN, will do someday but wanted to catch up asap). Gou was interesting to an extent, but it started to get really boring where the episodes became very predictable with Sotsu. Then that ending happened. I don't have nostalgia goggles on, I can say for a fact the old Higurashi seasons were far better in many aspects. It was just... such a strange direction to take for Higurashi and it felt wrong. I greatly enjoyed Umineko, but keep its elements out of Higurashi - it's not meant to be.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm a new fan too, I even wrote my experience with every VN chapter on the Gou threads, rating them and talking about what I loved and about what I hated, It was lots of fun, sotsu doesn't even feel like umineko, it feels like a bad joke, like a gag from kira IMO.
>People can actually, unironically, make make it through the part where shannon goes full robot mode in ep7 and still not understand who beatrice is
People criticize r07 for calling his readers stupid but there's people like this that prove him right
Umineko has some of the most pseudointellectual low IQ writing and its fans are pseudointellects that shit on people who didn't enjoy the story because they recognize it was written sloppily and not worth their time. The pacing after EP3 is horrible
>The writer of sotsugou has no right to call anyone stupid....
He didn't write sotsugou, it was written by Naoki Hayashi.
Everything about this character real sex is stupid.
>he spent his entire life being told that he was female
This is the dumbest thing about this story. There is no way this could happen at least in real life because, if the surgery is what you're implying, it would need constant "maintenance", it's not a one time thing and is impossible to not notice.
>There is no way this could happen at least in real life
It has literally happened in real life before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
is the umineko anime worth watching for a "so bad it's good" factor or is it just boring/irredeemable
it's fun to watch if you use the DAMEDAME meme subs.
What does the whole meta world stuff even mean? Was battler literally isekai'd to an alternate hell dimension where he has to battle witches? Or was that entire thing just I giant metaphor to portray the themes of the story? It seemed like that stuff was literally happening in the first half, but the second half got weird and confusing in regards to that? What even is real in this god damn story? I feel like I wasted my time watching a bunch of scenes that literally never happened.
IKUKO IS YASU
everything is just her trying to make Battler remember
the game between Battler and Beatrice
Ikuko and Battler on a table discussion about Ikuko's mystery
>Except Genji
Dude saw his entire family and everyone he knew get massacred while he got to live with the guilt of running away. He's genuinely dead inside.
Reminder that this literally never happened and was all part of the fanfiction a suicidal teen wrote where he killed his entire family as revenge
Genji's only sin was hiring Yasu.
>Reminder that this literally never happened and was all part of the fanfiction a suicidal teen wrote where he killed his entire family as revenge
The characters on the gameboards can only act in a way that their true selves would act in that situation, the game explicitly tells you this. If that wasn't the case there would be zero reason to get attached to any of the characters. The only exception to this is Bern's game where Battler is a culprit, which can happen only because it's a game she took from a different Kakera.
yes, it just seems inconsistent with Battler's character considering that he wrote a letter to Maria, who he had a far less personal connection to. George was a reddit nice guy and totally would've hidden it as a 13/14 year old homosexual brat so if you think about it it's all George's fault
I never liked Shannon X Jooji segments
except the buffet parts, that part seems reasonably written
If only Shannon didn't contract brain damage every time she's flustered
Kyrie probably mentioned who he should write too and I don't know why she'd mention a servant. George didn't do shit Battler just didn't care about Shannon.
I'd care about my little baby cousin even if I barely saw her much more.
according to r07 in the 'answer to the golden witch' interview, he intended for people to be able to see it that way, and so to me that's enough to start thinking that it wouldn't be out of character for the 'ladies first' george of the time to hide the letter out of jealousy or out of an intention to slip in himself while the maid is heartbroken
pachinko sprites are abhorrent. hated how mexican Battler kept staring at me in the taskbar throughout all of Chiru
I found out I was severely moronic when I finished umineko and read the wiki and found out they were Beatriche. I didn't understand what the frick I was reading for the entirety of the last 2-3 episodes
filtered but I didn't really 'solve' the mystery until it was practically laid out in its entirety in episode 7, and it still took me a bit of thinking to realize that they were all the same (it roughly clicked around a 1/3 of the way through episode 8)
considering the circumstances
she was the only one to physically lashes out at Maria (a literal 9 year old)
Natsuhi and Krauss didn't slap Jessie for having inappropriate manners
well
can you reeeaaaally say Rosa killed Kuwadorian Beato?
sure it may keep her awake at night, but torturing her daughter for it? Doesn't seem sensible
to Earth, no one would dispute that a coffin is a closed room
unless
it's a deliberate contraption that can be opened at the bottom leading to a hidden catacomb
>when the demon explains to ange that if she had a gun that they would have been able to perform a magic spell killing all her classmates if she had a gun but she didn't so they couldn't do any magic
I started reading this when I was 17 years old and dropped it because sotsu gave me intense hatred for anything higurashi related, now I'm 18 years old and Have a job, I want to go back to reading it, but it's so damn long, it's literally impossible for to read the whole thing in less than 9 months
>it's literally impossible for to read the whole thing in less than 9 months
When I was a neet I went through it in under a week by reading 12-16 hours a day. Even if you have a job, it should only take you a month if you have at least 3 hours a day to spare
Maybe they're one of those people where when they read for long enough they need to take a break to digest/decompress
I know when I read it though it was like inhaling crack and staying up until 3AM to see the next thing
Maybe I'm fricking moronic but I didn't manage to do that not even when I had nothing else to do, it took me at least 2 weeks and a half to finish a chapter.
>it's literally impossible for to read the whole thing in less than 9 months
When I was a neet I went through it in under a week by reading 12-16 hours a day. Even if you have a job, it should only take you a month if you have at least 3 hours a day to spare
How did you manage to not feel terribly sick by spending too much time in front of the screen and also understand the story?
[...]
Maybe they're one of those people where when they read for long enough they need to take a break to digest/decompress
I know when I read it though it was like inhaling crack and staying up until 3AM to see the next thing
>they read for long enough they need to take a break to digest/decompress
This, it's too much information to digest, If I read for too long I'll just forget everything that happened, I had to take breaks to do nothing besides recapitulate the events on my head to not lose track of the plot.
>it's literally impossible for to read the whole thing in less than 9 months
When I was a neet I went through it in under a week by reading 12-16 hours a day. Even if you have a job, it should only take you a month if you have at least 3 hours a day to spare
What does the whole meta world stuff even mean? Was battler literally isekai'd to an alternate hell dimension where he has to battle witches? Or was that entire thing just I giant metaphor to portray the themes of the story? It seemed like that stuff was literally happening in the first half, but the second half got weird and confusing in regards to that? What even is real in this god damn story? I feel like I wasted my time watching a bunch of scenes that literally never happened.
It's all just a way to tell the story and convey what certain characters think - it is useful to you in figuring out to the story if you interpret it the right way. Of course, that's not to say there is nothing actually supernatural in Umineko... but that's really only outside of the gameboard. And a few characters in the meta world, like the voyagers, aren't just there for the purpose of the narrative. The supernatural DOES exist in Umineko's universe, but it never really exists in the context of the tragedy occurring on Rokkenjima.
>What does the whole meta world stuff even mean? Was battler literally isekai'd to an alternate hell dimension where he has to battle witches? Or was that entire thing just I giant metaphor to portray the themes of the story?
In functions as both simultaneously. But like the other anon [...] said you're not supposed to view the supernatural elements of the plot as actual things that happened in the story, it's more like "Supernatural elements in this world debate whether or not it's possible if supernatural stuff could have existed in this mystery event" >What even is real in this god damn story?
Gameboards aren't real but are like puzzle pieces to solving the actual story elements for the reader
Yeah, that's honestly what I didn't really like about it. Like I understand the whole point was about solving the mystery and all the other themes it had. But I'm someone who is more interested in the characters themselves I guess. And basically being told, "All those characters you liked are either dead or never existed, none of the games are real, and all that fun stuff with witches never actually happened. Sorry, buddy. Solve the mystery I guess." was kind of a big frick you to the me spending 100+ hours reading this hoping for something more. I don't know, guess it's not for me.
Well, R07 uses all the meta stuff as actually undoubtedly real in a lot of writing outside of Umineko itself. It's just in relation to Ange's world/narrative that he keeps all that ambiguity.
Last Note of the Golden Witch is even all fantasy/meta, without any kind of real world grounding at all. Or the prologue to Hotarubi which includes Lambdadelta. Or the crossover with Higurashi Mei.
Ikuko is Yasu
all your garbage are just b***hing to deny this fact
I can't think of a bigger waste of time discussing something like Umineko, a roughly 100 hour long VN, with morons on the worst board on the site. Who makes these threads?
>none of the games are real, and all that fun stuff with witches never actually happened
All of the games were real and all of the witch stuff actually happened. Featherine uses the red truth in the human world and Bernkastel is explicitely Rika. The only reason the meta stuff is written in a way where most of it can be reasoned as "not real" is because allowing for that interpretation adds to the themes of story and it's exploration of the dichotomy between fantasy and mystery as genres.
>What does the whole meta world stuff even mean? Was battler literally isekai'd to an alternate hell dimension where he has to battle witches? Or was that entire thing just I giant metaphor to portray the themes of the story?
In functions as both simultaneously. But like the other anon
It's all just a way to tell the story and convey what certain characters think - it is useful to you in figuring out to the story if you interpret it the right way. Of course, that's not to say there is nothing actually supernatural in Umineko... but that's really only outside of the gameboard. And a few characters in the meta world, like the voyagers, aren't just there for the purpose of the narrative. The supernatural DOES exist in Umineko's universe, but it never really exists in the context of the tragedy occurring on Rokkenjima.
said you're not supposed to view the supernatural elements of the plot as actual things that happened in the story, it's more like "Supernatural elements in this world debate whether or not it's possible if supernatural stuff could have existed in this mystery event" >What even is real in this god damn story?
Gameboards aren't real but are like puzzle pieces to solving the actual story elements for the reader
It's all just a way to tell the story and convey what certain characters think - it is useful to you in figuring out to the story if you interpret it the right way. Of course, that's not to say there is nothing actually supernatural in Umineko... but that's really only outside of the gameboard. And a few characters in the meta world, like the voyagers, aren't just there for the purpose of the narrative. The supernatural DOES exist in Umineko's universe, but it never really exists in the context of the tragedy occurring on Rokkenjima.
>Check out this 1v1 fight montage I have with my witch-sensei >homosexual get back to the ACTUAL event >ahaha.wav
Despite having XY chromosomes, I am a woman. You must acknowledge me as a woman, otherwise you have no love and are a stupid goat.
Now say it. Say I'm a beautiful woman
KINZO WAS AFRAID TO COMMIT THE SAME SIN AGAIN. YOU CAN'T GET A MAN PREGNANT. SO YASU IS A FEMALE
THE SIN IS YASU LIKE STATED IN EP4 ITALIAN LYRICS
EVEN IF THE SIN IS RAPE, KINZO RAPED BEATRICE 2 JUST BECAUSE SHE STARTED LOOKING LIKE BEATRICE, A MAN DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A WOMAN, AND EVEN IF HE DID IT, YOU UNDERSTAND IT ONLY AFTER YEARS THE BABY IS BORN.
KINZO FORCED NATUSHI TO RISE HIM AS A MALE TO AVOID ANOTHER RAPE
NATSUHI FANTACISIM FOR KINZO ALLOWED EVERYTHING HE SAID
KINZO WAS AFRAID TO COMMIT THE SAME SIN AGAIN. YOU CAN'T GET A MAN PREGNANT. SO YASU IS A FEMALE
THE SIN IS YASU LIKE STATED IN EP4 ITALIAN LYRICS
EVEN IF THE SIN IS RAPE, KINZO RAPED BEATRICE 2 JUST BECAUSE SHE STARTED LOOKING LIKE BEATRICE, A MAN DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A WOMAN, AND EVEN IF HE DID IT, YOU UNDERSTAND IT ONLY AFTER YEARS THE BABY IS BORN.
KINZO FORCED NATUSHI TO RISE HIM AS A MALE TO AVOID ANOTHER RAPE
NATSUHI FANTACISIM FOR KINZO ALLOWED EVERYTHING HE SAID
I don't get the whole Yasu troony shit. Wasn't Kanon's existence a direct result of Yasu realising that he is a male, and thus tried to fit within the role of one? Shannon still exists because he spent his entire life being told that he was female, which permanently affected his psychology.
Everything about this character real sex is stupid.
>he spent his entire life being told that he was female
This is the dumbest thing about this story. There is no way this could happen at least in real life because, if the surgery is what you're implying, it would need constant "maintenance", it's not a one time thing and is impossible to not notice.
>This is the dumbest thing about this story. There is no way this could happen at least in real life because, if the surgery is what you're implying, it would need constant "maintenance", it's not a one time thing and is impossible to not notice.
>9 years in an aisland and no one ever notice that
dude wolves are in kanon's pants don't check them
2 years ago
Anonymous
servants changing cloths together and see the abominations created by Nanjo?
no one made a question?
no one is school during gym?
LMAO
Yasu is a woman or the only solution for Umineko is just eveyone is dumb pls ignore
2 years ago
Anonymous
this man peeps wieners on the clock
2 years ago
Anonymous
YASU HAD AN OPERATION AT 0YO AND FROM THAT MOMENT HE NEVER DILATED A SINGLE DAY
enjoy the result
2 years ago
Anonymous
>yes i memorized what all my classmates dicks looked like and snapped pics of my coworkers at the urinal but uhhh d-dial 8
2 years ago
Anonymous
we speak about woman tard.
during chaning clothes they will notice some abomination by even bad looking at it
would you frick a literal axewound, Ganker?
Shannon is not Yasu
2 years ago
Anonymous
have you tried not being italian?
you gonna try and get me to read your shitty manifesto?
anyway what did r07 mean by this?
and what the absolute FRICK did he mean by the entirety of ciconia?
is he woke or not?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I solved Higurashi ttoo as a mystery so Ciconia will be the same >what Ryukishi mean
that Yasu is a woman >stop being italian
Never best ticket at nationality lottery
2 years ago
Anonymous
> and what the absolute FRICK did he mean by the entirety of ciconia? > is he woke or not?
American Politics is an aberration, so don't expect people outside of America to adhere to its "rules".
2 years ago
Anonymous
but is he gay or something
why is whatever the hell is in miyao's pants a plot point
2 years ago
Anonymous
He understands gender identity is the next big societal conflict now that homosexuality is more or less settled. He was a social worker briefly before trying out writing a screenplay, so I would argue at bare minimum he's a person who's big on a government social safety net. You can't really view other countries politics through the American culture war lens though, because only America is schizophrenic enough to waste their time on that instead of real policy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
well, whatever.
i'll continue to make ACK! jokes about yasu anyway.
Episode 5 did, we go straight from Battler avenging Ange with his rage against the witch to him being all romantic with her and sperging out about his honorable chess board.
I still consider it the best Episode and he does have some cool moments in it but it's silly how easy he forgets about Ange's sacrifice despite it being such an important moment for him in Ep 4.
His rage against Beatrice is more a competitive one. He doesn't even believe she was the culprit, and she never even killed anyone anyway. I don't see the sense in avenging Ange from someone you don't even believe did anything on the island.
>she never even killed anyone anyway
uhhhh, she didn't directly kill them, but it doesn't change the fact that they wouldn't have died if she didn't do what she did.
I really wonder what the hell happened in that world. Natsuhi should be well-adjusted and Lion is not a huge schizo like Yasu was. How the hell did it end up in a shoot out? The family might still have had their debts, but with Lion being the head of the family, I'd expect him to share part of the inheritance with his brothers to bail them out.
Well yeah, but that's basically because Kinzo did in that world what Yasu did in "the normal world". We also know that the tragedy wouldn't have happened if Asumu didn't die, so it's not like the tragedy is 100% unavoidable.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>We also know that the tragedy wouldn't have happened if Asumu didn't die
Is this from the ninth episode that released a few years ago or am I just a speed reader?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah. There's an English fantranslation which is... not good, to say the least, but it's still barely readable.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>There's an English fantranslation which is... not good, to say the least, but it's still barely readable.
This is from Steam's release with 07th mod
2 years ago
Anonymous
Thankfully I'm not a homosexual that gets triggered by the words "it can't be helped".
2 years ago
Anonymous
You saying that you understand the second sentence?
2 years ago
Anonymous
After reading the context, I think I do understand, yes. But I don't know what's your point honestly. Umineko is a very long game, a few awkwardly translated lines is understandable. The fantranslation of EP9 is barely better than a MTL, in comparison.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I never cared about "can't be helped" or whatever
the second sentence doesn't even make sense in its context but sure, you do you
2 years ago
Anonymous
She's calling Rosa a low-level magical container because she's a schizo who thinks Rosa is evil because she's possessed by an evil witch.
The UP version of that line is the same, btw.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>UP version
what?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Umineko Project version, which uses a different translation compared to the Steam Version.
I can't think of a bigger waste of time discussing something like Umineko, a roughly 100 hour long VN, with morons on the worst board on the site. Who makes these threads?
I read the entirety of Umineko as it came out and I feel like I'm being generous when I give it a 4/10. It's a convoluted mess that reads like it was written by a 12 year old. The Japanese fanbase refuses to so much as give Ryuukishi the time of the day nowadays for good reason.
Honestly, I find the extent to which the western fanbase is obsessed with Umineko to this day to be frightening in a sense. I have no idea how you guys can drone on about it day after day nearly ten years after the final episode was released; Ryuukishi is a hack who has no idea how to actually tell a story that does anything except continually bait the reader with red herrings and empty promises of greater themes. He's been like this since Higurashi and will never improve, either on a technical level or as a storyteller in general.
Like I said, almost no Japanese fan cares about Ryuukishi nowadays, and it's more than people just being pissed off about episode 8 of Umineko (people were pissed off about Minagoroshi and Matsuribayashi long before then, anyway). It's because they've had enough exposure to him to see through his tricks and stop falling for his brand of spectacle and sophistry. And yes, his terrible, childish text is part of the problem too - there are parts of Higurashi that have such embarrassingly poor writing that they're used as copypasta on 2ch.
I don't know how the western fanbase continues to put up with Ryuukishi, and I honestly feel that it's damaging to the community as a whole to continue to obsess this much over a single work so long after the fact.
Higurashi obviously, but you've probably read that. I keep hearing people mentioning The House in Fata Morgana as similar to Umineko, but I have not yet read it.
Well, there are games where you're literally a detective trying to solve a case, like Kara no Shoujo.
If you don't want something quite like that and are comfortable with more "thriller" elements then there's the infinity series stuff. Remember11 in particular will get your noggin joggin if you really try to piece everything together yourself.
Watch out anons, reading The Name of the Rose might freak you out a little with how similar some of the devices are (literally and figuratively).
Anyway, he asked for VNs. Literature related to Umineko is practically endless.
Not him, Raging Loop is great but it doesn't come close to Umineko in the mystery aspect. Like Umineko it's supposed to be about the MC trying to prove a human culprit in a supernatural murder mystery, but very few chances for actual deduction are presented since basically no clues are given to the player and the MC ends up spending most of his time trying to navigate the mechanics of the village gatherings only to decide 80% through the plot that "oh yeah, there's a mystery I should try to solve". So if you want the feeling of solving murders that you get from Umi you won't find it with Raging Loop. There are also some plot twists towards the last third of the game that are objectively awful writing and might hurt your enjoyment of the overall experience. It's really messy because of that last third but I would still give it an 8/10 just for how strong everything before it was.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Up until the end, Raging Loop is great, but yea, there isn't much investigation but you DO get hints and can put some stuff together.
Gonna be honest though: Umineko isn't really much of an investigation either. You have much more freetime in a sense, but it's still 'romance'.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes you do get some hints for raging loop, but The human explanation is terrible. I already considered knockout gas and electronic locks way before the confirmation but ruled them out because they're stupid explanations that don't actually follow believable logic. Hiding an electronic lock in shitty wooden doors for 20+ years with no one noticing is less believable than an actual ookami. The mystery doesn't follow any rules and is filled with plotholes like Cheimi rotting away and the werewolf being unkillable and 20 feet tall. It seems like the writer wasn't happy with it either because the extra content retcons everything by saying it all WAS supernatural and the werewolf was real, but the MC just rewrote reality to fit his own explanation because he has subconsious psychic powers. Umi kind of has something similiar with the catbox murders but it's just executed a hundred times better, I hate that butch sheep so fricking much.
>Umineko isn't really much of an investigation either
What I mean is that Battler spends tons of time analysing the various murders and trying to figure out how they're performed by ruling out all possibilites, Fusaishi on the other hand is entirely focused on staying alive and does very little detective work until the end.
2 years ago
Anonymous
like Cheimi rotting away and the werewolf being unkillable and 20 feet tall.
These are my issues too.
The rest isn't that crazy. And yea I ended up hating the sheep too, especially with their reveal.
Probably ZUN's guidelines getting in the way, as long as you're talking about the PS3 version. The original Umineko releases were Comiket doujin stuff after all.
>Episode 1-6 Battler - Even if it's just on the gameboard deeply cares about the fate of everyone on the island and gets upset at how they get killed in horrible ways >Episode 8 - lol
>didn't even realize there was a mystery i had to attempt to solve until it dawned on me during the chapter 7 minigame
How many layers of goat am I on?
I only figured out Beatrice's identity was somehow related to Shannon and Kanon and it's obviously these two who are pushing it. Which turned out to be right, even if I guess they wanted us to actually figure out the trick
Unironically, I believe thats one of the better ways to experience umineko, just reading along and taking the things as it happens.
>didn't even realize there was a mystery i had to attempt to solve until it dawned on me during the chapter 7 minigame
How many layers of goat am I on?
You just didn't read nothing of umineko
Mystery was the main theme
What is?
How to write it?
How to solve it?
Mystery isn't a theme, It's a genre. Umineko offers commentary on the mystery genre, but it isn't a theme.
The core theme of umineko is understanding (And what it means to understand). This is why they spend so long repeating "Without love it cannot be seen."
It has other lesser themes, like Atonement, cycles of abuse, crisis of identity etc, but the whole story is about understanding and the importance of learning how to reach it yourself.
How the heck am I supposed to know if Umineko was my first VN and I had never read any mystery novel/book before?
Despite all that, I still enjoyed it with all my soul, and that's alright imo
>characters letter address you as the reader and tell you to try and solve the mystery >chapters have difficulty rankings >climax's with the player actually having to solve a mystery in Bern's game >no bro don't think about it, just consoom product.
Do you also "play" video games by watching your favourite streamers?
I think reading it completely uncritically is kind of wasteful, but I also don't think you have to read it like mystery fiction just because someone said so. A recurring theme in the story is that overcoming the predefined terms of a debate or concept can lead to a greater understanding, a theme I agree with. Engaging with the stoey through other methods of analysis still shows R07 "love" by taking his story seriously, and those other methods can even come to the "correct" culprit and theory through simply grasping the characters and their motivations.
The one thing that didn't sit right with me was beatrice breaking down in ep 4 over how battler doesn't seem to be making progress towards understanding her/yasu motives/heart
except that when battler was starting to do exactly that, beatrice pulls the rug out from under him and reinforices the idea that she's a psychopath that thinks his family members dying is funny, so what the frick did she expect battler to do except think she really is a witch he has to reject in all ways?
Unpopular fact: "Solving" the mystery is only possible if you followed the story as the episodes were released and participated in discussions on the internet.
Reason: The "solutions" are so shitty and out of the world, the only way to find them is to have billions of "goats" throwing shit at the wall until something sticks. Ironically, the "best" aka most insane solutions probably acted as inspiration for the author which makes them self fulling prophecies.
I really wonder what the hell happened in that world. Natsuhi should be well-adjusted and Lion is not a huge schizo like Yasu was. How the hell did it end up in a shoot out? The family might still have had their debts, but with Lion being the head of the family, I'd expect him to share part of the inheritance with his brothers to bail them out.
>schizo
Loveless goats like you are the reason why Umineko is so hated
I'm sorry anon but you can't call writing fanfiction about how a witch is going to kill your family and then sending it in a bottle across the sea anything but a schizo move.
The whole point was to show that yasu was a pussy who wouldn't actually go through with anything. The person she believed she could be in her bottles/forgeries and the person she actually was are very different. People are capable of having a change of heart, sometimes they just need to be pushed to the edge to have it.
I really wonder what the hell happened in that world. Natsuhi should be well-adjusted and Lion is not a huge schizo like Yasu was. How the hell did it end up in a shoot out? The family might still have had their debts, but with Lion being the head of the family, I'd expect him to share part of the inheritance with his brothers to bail them out.
It's important to keep in mind that Bernkastel's fragment she created with Lion, by Bern's own admission, is fundamentally impossible. It's a cross-stitch of two or more different fragments together. In the fragment Bern created, it is framed as the adults getting upset with Kinzo's favoritism towards lion and him presenting his children with the riddle. While Bern's fragment depicts Rokkenjima Prime, it is still a deliberate illusion made to be misleading (why else not show Ange the truth of Battler surviving?).
In a "True Lion Fragment", the events depicted wouldn't happen. The adults wouldn't have guns, because they are normally in kinzo's study (shown in manga), not in the gold room where the fight broke out (which had guns because of Yasu's plans). Even if the adults solved the riddle and got to the gold, Kyrie would have had to go sicko mode on 2+ fully grown men before she could have got access to a gun. Kinzo also wouldn't even let it happen in the first place, since he only gives a frick about Lion, and has zero reason to let the adults try anything at all anyway. The epitaph was placed in 1984, two years before the incident, as a means to resurrect Beatrice, something he wouldn't have done if Lion existed, so they would only ever be able to get to the gold room on Kinzo's word as well. If the adults are in the gold room, kyrie/rudolf have no reason to kill either, since they stand to gain nothing.
If you truly believe in magic, they are still alive in the Golden Land, having fun drinking tea and eating biscuits
If you don't, they are all dead, but how? How did they die? Who, or what killed them?
The howdunnit might be different, but the beginning (arrival on the island) and the end (everyone dies except some) are all the same
It's up to you, the reader, to analyze and come up with a rational solution to what really happened
The entire point is that the whydunnit is more important, as it is what drives the characters to do the actions in the first place. This is stated explicitly in the story in no uncertain terms.
That is why the whydunnit remains constant, because that's what the story is about figuring out. It's an insult to the author to not understand this.
2 years ago
Anonymous
YEAP
WILLOARD
I WILL NEVER BELIVE PEOPLE KILL NOT FOR LOVE
IN SHKANONTROCE THE ACCOMPLICE KILL FOR MONEY
NOT FOR LOVE
The final answer is remembering your loved ones rather than dwelling on their deaths
The metaworld exists in a state of duality as a real place and also just part of the message bottle mysteries
There is not enough evidence to prove ikuko being yasu or not, but the themes heavily imply it.
Logic errors were introduced in the story because of 2chanons solving the mystery and 07th changing it as he went on, it's his confession so to speak.
Episode 5 "lacks love" because it makes Battler an accomplice in Yasu's plot when she only ever makes the plots for him to solve.
You can solve the who dunnit, how dunnit, and why dunnit with only the first 4 games, but the last 4 are necessary to truly understand what the frick is going on.
>You can solve the who dunnit, how dunnit, and why dunnit with only the first 4 games,
Not all of them.
I guessed kanontrice, and the how to some extent, but the bombs? How the truck can you guess the bombs?
You can solve it with the third party narrative regarding what the police found at the island, the fact that the game always ends explicitly at 12, and Beato's last riddle stating that despite Battler being completely alone on the island with no beings, she would still kill him.
>There is not enough evidence to prove ikuko being yasu or not, but the themes heavily imply it.
you've changed, namegay, you used to be a lot more stubborn on this one glad you conceded over time
>You can solve the who dunnit, how dunnit, and why dunnit with only the first 4 games,
Not all of them.
I guessed kanontrice, and the how to some extent, but the bombs? How the truck can you guess the bombs?
"Guaranteed to win at X time"
"Skeletal remains unidentifiable except for a jawbone"
what is capable of these two things?
Fire doesn't burn bones, even crematoriums often have remains that aren't ashes.
Beyond this, the story gives clues that fires WOULDN'T do this, with kinzo's corpse being incinerated and still having elements that identify him.
>The story changed because BT died
headcanon >There is not enough evidence to prove ikuko being yasu
Because she isn't and you lack basic storytelling comprehension if you think otherwise, it's literally on the level of saying Nanjo = Kinzo.
They were practically gay lovers. Yes his death changed the story, 6 jumped the shark and diverted from a chunni mystery focus literally because his best friend and frankly saving grace editor died.
>You can solve the who dunnit, how dunnit, and why dunnit with only the first 4 games, but the last 4 are necessary to truly understand what the frick is going on. >Logic errors were introduced in the story because of 2chanons solving the mystery and 07th changing it as he went on, it's his confession so to speak.
these two things are incompatible
They aren't. As long as by the time the 4th game is released, there are no errors, you can still solve it. The logic error is put into the game as a confession by him that he changed things as he went along.
No, it's the opposite. The "logic error" plot is here to tell you that rewriting the mystery after reading the fan theories would be moronic. What would he have changed anyway?
>You can solve the who dunnit, how dunnit, and why dunnit with only the first 4 games, but the last 4 are necessary to truly understand what the frick is going on. >Logic errors were introduced in the story because of 2chanons solving the mystery and 07th changing it as he went on, it's his confession so to speak.
these two things are incompatible
I really can't stand episode 8 Battler
For no other reason than he stops resembling the character he was in the first 6 episodes entirely with little to no explanation
The entire point of his character is that he is a different person after understanding who/what Beatrice is. The only thing left for him to accomplish is to take Ange off her self-destructive path, and dedicates himself to that. It'd be out of character for him to do anything else.
I feel like he acts even more detached and weirdly cold except to Ange
In Episode 5 he still cared about things like defending Natsuhi even after becoming the territory lord whereas in 8 he's pretty callous about shit, I dunno maybe it's just supposed to be that way in 8 because of the Tohya/Battler conflict in the real world is influencing meta BATTLER
The entire point of his character is that he is a different person after understanding who/what Beatrice is. The only thing left for him to accomplish is to take Ange off her self-destructive path, and dedicates himself to that. It'd be out of character for him to do anything else.
To tack on here, thanks to the manga showing us what happens to Beato and Battler when they sink into the sea, we get confirmation that Battler in 1-4 is simultaneously a fraction of his memories that Tohya lost and also the character written into the stories. Once he regains his memories in the 5th game, he understands that he's basically dead. But that he can also help Ange because apparently Ryukishi wanted her to actually go to the metaworld.
I'd always thought that her sudden change on the roof in 8 was because of a manuscript and doll that Tohya sent to her in lieu of meeting her out of fear, but the manga just confirms that she got isekai'd
He told me at a convention that Satoko was Lambda's piece in Higurashi when he came to one in the states. I don't expect you to believe me, nor do I need you to because he put out the new higurashi material showing it anyway.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>me at convection
Ahahahahahahahahahahahha
This is a new level of shilking
So I get that Shannon/Kanon were Yasu swapping between identities and stuff in Episode 1, but they're actually characters in Ep 2 onwards right? Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice all split into 3 different people and were made "real" when they became pieces? At the very least, I feel like they're never seen together in Ep 1 but they are in Ep 2 onwards
I could be wrong but the only time Shannon/Kanon appear together is with servant characters (People who are in on it) or magic scenes which on the game board is literal untrustworthy narrator tier
No. Any time they are "seen together", Battler is never a witness and thus the scene is fictitious, generally a metaphorical depiction of a conversation going in Yasuda's head as they disagree with themselves. They do that rather often.
they were already actual characters when episode 1 occured. Episode 1 is already taking place inside the catbox, Battler just doesn't know it yet/remember that he died. The real world version of the incident happens before the start of the game. Shannon and kanon can always be shown together so long as the "detective" isn't present in the scene.
Oh A LOT of people hated 7. I personally really disliked it and it's pretty much what you said. Didn't like new character explaining the answers. At least make it Battler.
Because Will was boring plot device and was only brought in to answer all the questions. And then he only answered them in oblique poem so it wasn't even satisfying.
I started reading the VN in 2009 up to the third game. Then read it on release every year.
Post screenshots and provide proof for your claim, it's not hard to do. You are the one trying to convince this board that Yasu is a girl and is also Erika. None of us believe you.
>And then he only answered them in oblique poem so it wasn't even satisfying.
That's the most kino part of Umineko though
Incredible how it still filters people nowadays.
I don't think you really need much explanation as to why people might find Battler being sidelined and others solving his mysteries shit and bad writing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Are you mentally moronic? Battler solved it in ep5 and his story ended in ep6. Battler arc is finished, done.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I dont have a problem with it but the people that do probably would argue that Battler solving everything instantly in the "And then I knew" scene robs them of the experience of him actually presenting the solutions
That said Beatrice was dead at that point so
2 years ago
Anonymous
Very much this.
Is there a Sherlock Holmes novel that ends with the cops explaining it to Watson?
2 years ago
Anonymous
The tea party of 4 already exists, if you want to see Battler try to explain everything. A new scene where Battler would just explain the correct answers would be pointless.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yea, and he should be the one revealing it to the audience.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's not his job. Why would he do it?
Very much this.
Is there a Sherlock Holmes novel that ends with the cops explaining it to Watson?
Those are completely thematically different stories. This argument doesn't make any sense.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I love how you have to bend backwards and snap your spine to try to justify this. Let's be honest: It won't matter how I explain it, you won't accept it. Somehow you think an audience can follow an MC investigate a mystery but be happy when a never seen before character reveals it instead.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I love how you have to bend backwards and snap your spine to try to justify this
Sorry, but I am not following your schizophrenia. >MC investigate a mystery
Battler gave up on it in ep 5 and he wasn't making any progress beforehand. (You) are the one who supposed to solve it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So Battler DIDN'T solve the mystery. news to me.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Don't be an overdramatic homosexual. The point is Battler is not your typical detective character.
2 years ago
Anonymous
He can be atypical and you can still say it's not satisfying to have someone else reveal it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Battler is not Sherlock, doesn't matter how much you complain.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ok, now ACTUALLY refute this part: >you can still say it's not satisfying to have someone else reveal it.
He is the MC and has agency.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>has agency
No, he is not.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Go to sleep, anon. This post made no sense.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I refuse. Your entire argument is based off "thing x is similar to y, therefore it should behave the same way, because... just because, ok?"
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, dumbass, we already moved on, to PURE literary devices.
Forget the Sherlock shit, move on, realize what makes a satisfying narrative in general. What sort of things.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>satisfying narrative in general
Something that you can't describe, cuz it's subjective?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I don't care if you're a Battlergay seething because he wasn't in Ep7, I'm talking to someone angry about the fact that Will didn't explicitly explain his answers.
I thought 8 was the most hated? If people hate 7 it's probably because Battler isn't in it and neither is Beatrice unless you count Clair
Oh A LOT of people hated 7. I personally really disliked it and it's pretty much what you said. Didn't like new character explaining the answers. At least make it Battler.
8 is certainly the most hated. At the time people hated 7 tremendously but after time came around to it.
For me, I hated 7 because it just threw in Yasu instead of just sticking with one of her 3 personalities. There actually is no way to figure out who Yasu is up to this point. You could guess that there's a chief person behind all 3 people, but it's just occams razor that one of the 3 is the real one.
I also didn't care for the poem, but then i realized that he basically tells you what golden truth is, and then suddenly he's just solving the first four games for you.
Will was unbelievably boring. You won't find anyone saying Will was their favorite character.
Also I'm a Yasuda poster thank you very much.
READ HERE SHANNON IS NOT YASU
I started reading the VN in 2009 up to the third game. Then read it on release every year.
Post screenshots and provide proof for your claim, it's not hard to do. You are the one trying to convince this board that Yasu is a girl and is also Erika. None of us believe you.
Psychotically based and seconded. Walls of peace enjoyers will read ciconia
2 years ago
Anonymous
2 years ago
Anonymous
FOUND TARD
2 years ago
Anonymous
FOUND TARD
>People often ask me about my gender. So, I always give the same irritated response. Which do you think I look like?" >...In the 5th game, you're treated as a boy
AKA FOR EVERYONE LION IS NOT A MAN BUT DE JURE HE IS
0 INCIDENT AND RAISED AS A MAN
STILL PEOPLE BELIVE IN HIM BEING A WOMAN
why'd he have to make the american the gayest homosexual to ever exist? i should reread ciconia actually, the story's all fuzzy in my mind also NEXT PHASE FRICKING WHEN?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>why'd he have to make the american the gayest homosexual to ever exist?
He made the american an unashamed chad who happens to look pretty.
2 years ago
Anonymous
IRL fighter pilots got a slap on the wrist for that.
2 years ago
Lord BATTLER
Ciconia is When They Cry: "Oops! All Yasus"
It's funny. Umineko was his lashing out at people who hated matsuribayashi-hen for being contrived and impossible, now ciconia is his lashing out at people who hated shkanontrice.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Because shkanontrice jsut said ep5 and 6 are not mystery
Ryuukishi is a hack who can only milk Higurashi's success by ruining it. Umineko and >Ciconia is the proof that when his ghost writer is gone, he can't write a good story without making things convoluted
Will does explain his answers though, earth sentences are real, illusion sentences are fake, and gold truth sentences are things that everyone collectively agreed to or believed.
That's not being disputed right now though, the merits of Willard being the presenter vs Battler is
While understanding already that Battler figured shit out in ep05
>Battler arrives on Rokkenjima >Oh hey Shannon, sorry I didn't bring my white horse but you never responded to any of my letters - did George not give them to you?
Realistically what happens in this situation
It's quite probable that something that annihilated their genitals probably would have decimated their anus as well. Yasuda likely has to use a colostomy bag.
The injury was so severe that they were very lucky to be saved at all. Probably just a mass of scar tissue down there.
Perhaps George is a kind man who will give up on his dream of a large family for love.
Perhaps George is a cruel boy who wanted a maidservant wienersleeve.
The Ushiromiya are dead. The truth is whatever you want.
>STILL SHKANON KILL HIM FOR BATTLER
Rudolf was the one to shoot George. Yasuda didn't personally kill anyone since the epitaph was solved before the first twilight.
When they arrived at the treasury she gave them permission to activate or deactivate the bomb at their discretion. Whatever happened after was their own fault.
Presumably, Eva reactivated the bomb to purge the evidence, or it was forgotten in the chaos.
It's quite probable that something that annihilated their genitals probably would have decimated their anus as well. Yasuda likely has to use a colostomy bag.
The injury was so severe that they were very lucky to be saved at all. Probably just a mass of scar tissue down there.
>To the point that they cannot participate in any form of meaningful sexual intercourse. Basically nonexistent.
her ass doesn't function either?
George cared about having children so the use of other orifices is irrelevant as far as ShannonYasu's fears were concerned
It was the combined armaments of the imperial japanese station and whatever Kinzo could get off the italian submarine. Just a shitton of conventional bombs and fuel rigged to blow.
Honestly, umineko is a much better story when it's totally separated from higurashi and ciconia, the meta world stuff for me is better left as unexplainable and magical and I hate that ciconia and higurashi went deeper into it trying to explain everything (and ruining it all on the process)
This is one of the worst novels I've ever read along with higurashi. I dony know how you people can stomach this trash dialogue. Reading this is a fricking chore.
that's the whole point of the story
I played Umineko for the first time last year and regretted not doing so in realtime. Not because it was good, it was fricking trash, but because the final parts with the author making the characters literally fight internet posts gave me the impression that there were probably glorious bouts of internet shitposting back in the day that I missed, and that seems like it would've been way more fun than the game itself.
>STOP DEDUCING USING LOGIC YOU HAVE NO LOVE YOU STUPID SHEEPLES
really motherfricker?
You're right and people will hate you for it. It's worse than fricking trash.
You have no love
Turned umineko into a garbage mystery to proof your garbage solution
Why did you reply to so many posts though
Anon, she's had a hard life
let dream
I would pamper Maria to make up for her bad times with the Black Witch, even though the Witch might truly love her, she's still way too volatile towards Maria
Hey Maria
You can (not) fix her.
Rosa redeemed herself at the end of Ep2
I might even call her.. cool..
Without love, it cannot be seen
Will the Ps4 Saku get translated to PC bros
where do you even get anything past Chiru on PC?
Why do you want even more of this garbage?
Because I like it
Bullying Maria
People say that the final message of Umineko is an embrace of escapist fantasy, but I am not sure if that is the case. Yes, using fantasy to cope and deal with the weight of tragedy is often used, but I didn't get the message that this is where one has to stay.
The antagonistic figures in the story DID use the truth against the escapists, but the truth was not of any importance to the antagonists. A perfect example being Bernkastel and Erika vs Natsuhi. Natsuhi is clearly delusional, and is trapped in a web of falsehood, but the witches exposing her were not trying to bring her to the truth. Instead, they merely pointed out where she was wrong, and used the weakness that resulted to push her on to yet another falsehood. Just the same, the "goats" in the story too, didn't really care much for what actually happened on the island. Instead, they were just trying to impose a solution that best fit their tastes. Exposing lies just to seed more lies. This is the sort of cruelty that the story was attempting to condemn, rather than the truth itself.
I do feel that Umineko stumbled in its attempt to convey this, especially with the ending. I don't think the choice should have been the way it was. Rather, I think that truly letting go, and forgiving those involved, would have been the best course of action.
>THE ANSWER IS BOMBS! TINY BOMBS IN THE SOUP! SMALL BOMBS THAT KILL EVERYONE WHO EAT IT (except the people who didn't)
nah the moral of the story is that the people who care about the story are idiots.
>Rather, I think that truly letting go, and forgiving those involved, would have been the best course of action.
This is how it is, at least in the manga. Some say that opening Eva's diary would be disrespectful to the dead.
Erika is just another figment of imagination, of "what could have" happened on Rokkenjima.
Erika is like the representative of "it's a murder mystery - detective" people, while Battler is anti-fantasy's (the average fun reader who comes up with batshit insane non-fantasy solutions), and we have the fantasy (everything was caused by witches and daemons), at least that's what I got from the thing
I'm reading the VN after finishing the manga, and I'm having fun, it goes into details that I kinda brushed over in the manga
I don't think it stumbled in its attempt to convey it, i think that ultimately the message is something that someone who is wired a certain way just won't be able to intake because it's just fundamentally opposed to their world view which is why Chiru is so controversial/disregarded by some people
You can pretty much substitute a lot of the plot elements for religion and suddenly all the people who think Erika/Goats are justified in the actual scope of the plot makes a lot more sense
It is largely analogous to religion, though battler straight up says after saying that magic is real, that he is lying about it. I don't know of any religion that straight up admits: "Yeah we made it all up, but that's not the point, the actions (or ethics) you make once you believe are". At best I've heard about Buddhist monks say that reincarnation isn't real, but even that is hardly the mainstream Buddhist position. Maybe atheistic israelites have something similar going on, IDK.
>they were just trying to impose a solution that best fit their tastes
You just described people who were seething about shkanon.
>I do feel that Umineko stumbled in its attempt to convey this
No, people are just goats, anyone who hates the ending either genuinely has no soul or has the IQ of Battler.
> IQ of Battler.
Super genius?
Was being trapped by a logic error a part of your master plan, genius?
Unironically yes.
Low IQ Episode 1-4 Battler still tried to understand more of the actual story than Erika did, which is the entire point of Episode 5 and 6
>anyone who hates the ending either genuinely has no soul or has the IQ of Battler.
And you have no argument as to why? moron
>anon needs to have love explained to him
so sad!
>Erikaposter proceeds to hold a position just as ignorant as the goats he's complaining about
You love to see it.
>no sprite or CG with Bern giving you this expression
The VN sucks.
>Bernkastel
>antagonist
I mean, she is doing it just to play with Lambda but she did act like an antagonist in the second half.
Bern is Battler's family culprit theory
The theory who ruined Ange's life
The theory of the goats
Naturally she is the bad guy
Bern and Lambda are just two powerful witches fricking around. Lambda sticks to the magic side, Bern to the mystery side. Since Battler and Ange changed alignments in the end, it turns out they go against Bern while Lambda becomes their friend.
Definition of a witch in umineko
UNION OF STORIES
Bern is the physical rapresentation of the union of stories about Kyrie and Rudolf are the culprit.
This explain why she is so obsessed with Ange
Why she want to ruin her life
Ep7 reality was just the most accepted version of Bernkastle
This is why Battler's fate in unknow because peoppe do not agree on him being an accomplice
People don't like it because they fundamentally disagree with it. The truth does not only belong to victims and can be used whichever way you wish, and being a hardcore truth-seeker does not turn you into a cartoon villains like Erika. The "lessons" Umineko tries to teach are absurd and have no real-world application. It comes off as the author sniffing his own farts and fighting strawmen.
>The "lessons" Umineko tries to teach are absurd and have no real-world application.
But they do.
t.used magic when I was little
>The truth does not only belong to victims and can be used whichever way you wish
Truth seeking ruined Ange's life.
>hardcore truth-seeker does not turn you into a cartoon villains like Erika
This is not what Erika is, you imbecile.
>used magic when I was little
kek umihomosexuals were literal aspies/downies/abused homosexuals as children, not a surprise really
>The "lessons" Umineko tries to teach are absurd
What lessons, even? Not every work needs to be some sort of message being delivered to the reader.
Erika is Kanon
She is the culprit in ep5 and 6
Umineko is perfect
>cartoon villains
Be a christian and try to argue with an atheist
Will do the same expression and things
You put trice as much though in that idiotic speech of yours than r07 put in making the shit you venerate.
Explain the candy then.
Umineko Goats were cancel culture decades before it became a thing
Rosa did nothing wrong
>Rosa did nothing wrong
556 is still scared of you, you know?
Did she really need to jump off the boat with a gold bar tied to her leg in the end?
Did she not do it so Battler would not find out about her fricked body?
Battler is a good guy, I'm sure he will understand.
They kissed (and married in the meta world) afterall
They could have raised baby Ange together :3
No. She felt irredeemable after causing the massacre.
Considering how mentally unwell and self loathing she was at that point, in her mind yes
Battler isn't the one who was always badgering her about muh kids so I doubt it. She was already suicidal and seeing an island full of people killing each other partly due to her actions probably didn't help
>She was already suicidal and seeing an island full of people killing each other partly due to her actions probably didn't help
Yeah probably this.
>I'm sure he will understand.
I think so as well, but she hated herself over it and wanted to remain ideal in Battlers mind. She found her salvation when Battler dove in after her.
>She found her salvation when Battler dove in after her.
also
>When the last banquet happens, Battler finally uniting with her
>The Witch's Portrait, something that strikes uneasiness in the reader goes 180 and becomes a lasting beauty over the course of Umineko
>"Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice"
I had never witnessed something so endearing. I was fricking crying over a manga/vn at 26 yo, frick
Frick...
I like Umineko enough to pick up the pen
now tell me what to draw
expect shitpost-tier
Erika giving Ange a pirate hat after she killed Amakusa
2 birds 1 stone
Top stuff anon.
Gohda trying to hide jessica's body after his stakes of purgatory juggling act goes wrong.
It will never happen, even if you cut out some of the fat you could never make an umi adaption on the level of the VN without it being 200+ episodes, any adaption would have to gut the story DEEN style unless it got billionare funding.
le BBC girl
*le BWC girl
Erika.
Bring the Fate still brings a tear to my eye ngl
Was there any foreshadowing for island bomb other than them offhandedly mentioning that the island was a military base in 1-4
I could be misremembering but was the whole thing with Kinzo disappearing whenever he needed money and then coming back a day later with a new master plan not talked about?
Man that could mean anything and I certainly wouldn't think.
Lol I sit in a room full of bombs to force myself to think of shit
>foreshadowing
There is no need to foreshadow it. It's like the only possible answer outside of an unknown group of people naval invading the island.
everyone left over always died at exactly 12, no matter where they were on the island. In chapter 1 after the clock strikes 12 battler sees golden butterflies despite being the detective, presumably because the second the clock struck he was blown up without time to process it and the detective rule no longer applied?
The fact that police in 1998 call it an accident. The fact that no remains were found besides a piece of Maria's jaw in episode 1. The goats in episode 2's ending symbolize the explosion. Beatrice's mystery at the end of episode 4.
If someone was able to guess bomb off of the Episode 4 riddle then they are more intelligent than me
It was a pretty common theory when the game was still ongoing. It's easy to theorize if you have prior knowledge of Higurashi, since Ryukishi tends to echo ideas from his other works. In Ciconia, there is probably something similar happening, but on a global scale.
>It was a pretty common theory when the game was still ongoing
Actually, it wasn't. In fact, people hated the bomb.
They hated Shkanon, too.
I understand the hate behind the SK theory, but what's wrong with the bomb?
>hurr durr cope out
What? No they didn't, it wasn't a controversial reveal (especially compared to Shkanon).
The foreshadowing was reading Higurashi first and assuming that there's some big disaster that will kill everyone no matter what in this story too
Unironically Battler's small bomb theory about everyone dying at the table together. It even gets constantly brought up again and again as a stupid theory in 5-6. It puts the idea of the true answer (on a small scale) in the players head whilst also dismissing it as ludicrous as to throw them off.
The clock
There's a few things; The mass media and the police call it an accident in 1998; the disappearance of the small temple which the characters take as a bad omen and which Kumasawa infers was done by a lightning; by the ending scene of episode 2 you can kinda infer something is wrong, the golden butterflies and goats runinng amok the island are a result of the explosion that's occurring; and most importantly, Ange's description of the area when she visits in EP4. She never mentions a mansion anywhere, and she keeps mentioning how she's going down to get closer, as if she's going down into an explosion crater.
Every now and then I kinda wish they'd shell out for a proper animated adaptation but it's also one of those things where I feel like it would never actually be able to match up to the game because of how differently you'd digest it
Unless they can animate the batshit crazy faces in the manga, I'm not really interested
> you will never see Beatrice [Kakegurui Masho].
I don't get it, someone Mystery novel pilled explain
magic is real because this tune exists
Which one's your favorite Ganker
Occultics > Umineko > Pathos
Though I like all three.
Umineko, nothing beats that thundering Italian opening
I haven't read past episode 2 yet, my opinion might change
>Haven't read past episode 2 yet
homie what are you doing in here then get out before you get spoiled
I liked this one.
Too bad it's vaporware...
Umineko When they Never Come Out
>autotuned
gay
also it's just a poorly organized project by umineko super fan(voice actress)
I have zero interest in there being an english dub, but there probably would have been some physical rewards and that would have been nice to have. same reason I want another umi anime even if it's as bad as sotsugou. there's like no fricking umi merch
Fricking kino.
Maria is right. Magic is real.
im lonely
I just want to talk about Umineko with other anons
is this game worth playing? can you solve it?
Yes
Most of it
There's one mystery in particular that you literally don't have a prayer of solving without JP knowledge and giga brain shit
Not just JP knowledge, but Maritime China knowledge too.
Gohda's mom is the real victim
I refuse to believe that no one in the Ushiromiya family noticed that they are the same person
but they never existed. In the «true route» they never appeared or got mentioned at all. They only appeared in the routes written by beato/battler/hachijo
They don't exist in the true route because Lion is mentally alright in that route baka
They exist when they are severely mentally ill
Genji handled the schedules of the servants, kanon and shannon are barely ever sharing the same working days and are only doing so during the game because of how important the family visit is. Nanjo and Kumasawa are constantly helping with the facade. Kanon is anti-social and avoids everyone so the only family members who get the chance to properly interact with him are krauss, natsuhi and jessica. Natsuhi talks about how she avoids being around the male servants to avoid spreading rumors, Krauss is busy selling crypto. Jessica barely talks to him before inviting him to the concert, but does suspect something briefly, she then decides that the boy she likes just looking a lot like her best friend sans massive breasts makes more sense than a shizo crossdressing conspiracy.
>Pic
Even if they did it would be irrelevant to the gameboard
Besides they all but state they're just personas she was trying to choose between and that Yasu prime chose 'Shannon' because she gave up on Battler and Jessica's shit was more half-assed
Shannon was chosen because Ryukishi was butthurt that Kanon was more popular.
He did this with Higurashi too. Gave Mion less because she was popular, decided to ruin Satoko with gousotsu because she wasn't popular.
SHANNON IS NOT KANON
You are just tard
YASU IS FEMALE
KINZO AND WILLIARD CONFIRM
Nope
Shannon and Kanon are different people
Kinzo also lied to Willard about stealing the gold. We've gone over this, you're wrong. Nobody reads your bullshit because it's bullshit.
I distinctly recall his approval with thr Japanese fandom having problems as early as game 3 because people called out the shkanon trick and he weaseled around how he could use their bodies to throw people off.
WILLIARD HAS THE VIEWER AUTHORITY
can't lie
And Lion reaction confirmed she is a woman
Goat at his finest
>WILLIARD HAS THE VIEWER AUTHORITY
Which he never actually uses. He threatens to use it, then calmly listens to their lies anyway.
He has no reason to do it since Kinzo spoke with Love.
Lion confirmed his words too
So it's over
WILLIARD: LION ARR YOU A WOMAN?
LION: WHY EVERYONE ASK ME THAT?
AKA ARR YOU DRESSING AS A MAN TO AVOID ANOTHER RAPE?
Btfo
And yet Kinzo lied about himself being responsible for causing the massacre and stealing the gold.
Also he doesn't say anything about Yasu's gender, nor does Lion talk about his own.
Post screenshots of where I'm wrong.
TRUE
EP4 TEST
LIKE GEORGE HE KILLED EVERYONE ON ROKKENJIMA FOR HIS LOVE.
He Said was afraid of commit the same sin again
Looking to Yasu
A MAN CAN'T GET PRRGNANT
Post the screenshots of his confession to Will, and what Lion says about his gender.
Show proof.
Go on youtube tard
Williard interrogation of Kinzo in ep7
After Williard heard about the rape he asked Lion his gender and Lion confirmed it by telling everyone said it to him
Wveryone who met Lion thinks he is a woman + the rape = lion dress like a man to avoud the rape
Post screenshots that support your claim. Prove your manifesto.
It's not hard to do, just back it up with screenshots of where the characters imply these things.
>Kanon was more popular.
Things that never happened.
nta but he's right about Kanon being more popular.
pic related is the popularity poll after Ep3, for example.
Nobody liked Shannon
Guy willing to die for his waifu = more popular than doormat booba in love with a fat guy
= should've been a >
I found out I was severely moronic when I finished umineko and read the wiki and found out they were Beatriche. I didn't understand what the frick I was reading for the entirety of the last 2-3 episodes
>I didn't understand what the frick I was reading for the entirety of the last 2-3 episodes
jej
I can't do meta stuff man, I'm fricking autistic and take everything literally. Higurashi was more relaxing 🙁
well I can't either
but you don't really need to understand the metaverse to connect the dots, especially when it's already Episode 7/8
That is far too autistic, please tell me Ciconia isn't this autistic
It isn't. Yet.
Literally how, Episode 7 spells out for you who the culprit is and the whole Shkanon deal
Probably because I started fast clicking the text too much because the pacing became butthole
>People can actually, unironically, make make it through the part where shannon goes full robot mode in ep7 and still not understand who beatrice is
People criticize r07 for calling his readers stupid but there's people like this that prove him right
How does Shannon being a robot mean she's beatrice? That part doesn't allude to it at all
>How does Shannon being a robot mean she's beatrice? That part doesn't allude to it at all
>previous episode ended saying there are less people on the island then there should be.
>somehow kanon was not in the closet.
>Will notices that he hasn't seen them together, asks for her to get kanon and she instead starts acting creepy and trying to sneak off to the backroom.
The reveal of the actual number of people on the island after the closet mystery is supposed to be the shoedrop moment where you realise what's going on if you haven't already figured it out, chapter 7 is just confirming it and fleshing out more of the motive.
Erika is Kanon
Robot Shannon confirmed she cpuld bring here Kanon if Willoard wanted
>r07 for calling his readers stupid
The writer of sotsugou has no right to call anyone stupid....
True.
I was there having a mental breakdown, it was so weird I remember feeling strange, like I was having a dream.
I definitely think the pacing could be better and it's pretty blatant how the story got worse when it stopped being about Beatrice.
>I was there having a mental breakdown, it was so weird I remember feeling strange, like I was having a dream.
I myself was actually a new fan and had binged the old canon Higurashi seasons (sorry for not reading the VN, will do someday but wanted to catch up asap). Gou was interesting to an extent, but it started to get really boring where the episodes became very predictable with Sotsu. Then that ending happened. I don't have nostalgia goggles on, I can say for a fact the old Higurashi seasons were far better in many aspects. It was just... such a strange direction to take for Higurashi and it felt wrong. I greatly enjoyed Umineko, but keep its elements out of Higurashi - it's not meant to be.
I'm a new fan too, I even wrote my experience with every VN chapter on the Gou threads, rating them and talking about what I loved and about what I hated, It was lots of fun, sotsu doesn't even feel like umineko, it feels like a bad joke, like a gag from kira IMO.
Umineko has some of the most pseudointellectual low IQ writing and its fans are pseudointellects that shit on people who didn't enjoy the story because they recognize it was written sloppily and not worth their time. The pacing after EP3 is horrible
>The writer of sotsugou has no right to call anyone stupid....
He didn't write sotsugou, it was written by Naoki Hayashi.
>There is no way this could happen at least in real life
It has literally happened in real life before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
it's fun to watch if you use the DAMEDAME meme subs.
>the doctor
Fricking meme
Nanjo on an island without any knowledge or instrument to do that job
Not only did it but was so good that Yasu didn'need him anymore?
No dilating?
A perfect job so kuch that no one noticed?
Pure madness
the most moronic scene who don't confirm nothing
IKUKO IS YASU
everything is just her trying to make Battler remember
the game between Battler and Beatrice
Ikuko and Battler on a table discussion about Ikuko's mystery
I thought Umineko was just alright
I am on chapter 5 and it is my least favorite so far.
The second half of 5 is very good.
I'm reading the whole damn thing regardless of how good or shit it gets but that is a relief to hear.
Every character in Umineko is good
Except Genji, frick that guy
>Except Genji
Dude saw his entire family and everyone he knew get massacred while he got to live with the guilt of running away. He's genuinely dead inside.
More like a genuine murderer.
>my butcher's contract includes murdering 10 adults, 4 kids, and then myself
Reminder that this literally never happened and was all part of the fanfiction a suicidal teen wrote where he killed his entire family as revenge
Genji's only sin was hiring Yasu.
>Reminder that this literally never happened and was all part of the fanfiction a suicidal teen wrote where he killed his entire family as revenge
The characters on the gameboards can only act in a way that their true selves would act in that situation, the game explicitly tells you this. If that wasn't the case there would be zero reason to get attached to any of the characters. The only exception to this is Bern's game where Battler is a culprit, which can happen only because it's a game she took from a different Kakera.
George and Kanon are the culprits in a the games inckuding Bern's one
lmaoing at George
>george costanza cosplaying george ushiromiya
magic is real and battler is an idiot
You will never be a witch
Ok trooner
Why did Umineko get so bad?
The author's friend died, causing him to change course mid series.
>BT headcanon
have a nice day.
This is true, but Umitards will never accept it
>
Ange love!
>Rosa fights the island destroying bomb and wins
Truly kino.
Done with the first chapter.
Are all chapters just text without decisions or just the first one?
The only time you get decisions is episode 8
I hate how the ps3 sprites made George not fat
nah I prefer CHAD george.
So did George hide the letters
yes, it just seems inconsistent with Battler's character considering that he wrote a letter to Maria, who he had a far less personal connection to. George was a reddit nice guy and totally would've hidden it as a 13/14 year old homosexual brat so if you think about it it's all George's fault
I never liked Shannon X Jooji segments
except the buffet parts, that part seems reasonably written
If only Shannon didn't contract brain damage every time she's flustered
Kyrie probably mentioned who he should write too and I don't know why she'd mention a servant. George didn't do shit Battler just didn't care about Shannon.
I'd care about my little baby cousin even if I barely saw her much more.
according to r07 in the 'answer to the golden witch' interview, he intended for people to be able to see it that way, and so to me that's enough to start thinking that it wouldn't be out of character for the 'ladies first' george of the time to hide the letter out of jealousy or out of an intention to slip in himself while the maid is heartbroken
No you STUPID b***h, he ate them.
Why's this song so groovy?
what am I in for?
Kino or getting filtered and being very upset
peak fiction
Beatrice looking like a troony. Just get Nyaa
That kinda works as foreshadowing though
>not using the original sprites
homosexual
Ps3 > Ham Hands > Pachinko
pachinko sprites are abhorrent. hated how mexican Battler kept staring at me in the taskbar throughout all of Chiru
filtered but I didn't really 'solve' the mystery until it was practically laid out in its entirety in episode 7, and it still took me a bit of thinking to realize that they were all the same (it roughly clicked around a 1/3 of the way through episode 8)
>ywn get neck locked by Jessie
why live?
maybe
but could have been a lot better
That's everyone in this story
considering the circumstances
she was the only one to physically lashes out at Maria (a literal 9 year old)
Natsuhi and Krauss didn't slap Jessie for having inappropriate manners
Natsuhi and Krauss didn't kill someone when they were a child and had their spouse as an emotional support through everything
I dunno, throwing a baby off a cliff seems to have done some damage to Natsuhi's mental state.
well
can you reeeaaaally say Rosa killed Kuwadorian Beato?
sure it may keep her awake at night, but torturing her daughter for it? Doesn't seem sensible
Is there any good physical Umineko shit that was released overseas
Does Umineko even have anything physical other than music CDs?
I assume Japan got crazy limited edition shit for all the console releases the game has had
>Earth to Earth, no one would dispute that a coffin is a closed room
to Earth, no one would dispute that a coffin is a closed room
unless
it's a deliberate contraption that can be opened at the bottom leading to a hidden catacomb
Read Rose Guns Days.
>when the demon explains to ange that if she had a gun that they would have been able to perform a magic spell killing all her classmates if she had a gun but she didn't so they couldn't do any magic
I love this dumb cat like you wouldn't believe
it was more like
Ange had to be able to do the deeds
it's like I slap your ass and then when you turn around I say a demon did it
the powerlevel was kinda fricked here
how come EVA could summon Chiesters at will and Beato couldn't?
I started reading this when I was 17 years old and dropped it because sotsu gave me intense hatred for anything higurashi related, now I'm 18 years old and Have a job, I want to go back to reading it, but it's so damn long, it's literally impossible for to read the whole thing in less than 9 months
I marathoned the entire thing over the course of a few weeks in college
why do you want to read it witnin 9 months?
>it's literally impossible for to read the whole thing in less than 9 months
Do you never get free time? I binged the entire thing in a month.
Maybe they're one of those people where when they read for long enough they need to take a break to digest/decompress
I know when I read it though it was like inhaling crack and staying up until 3AM to see the next thing
Maybe I'm fricking moronic but I didn't manage to do that not even when I had nothing else to do, it took me at least 2 weeks and a half to finish a chapter.
How did you manage to not feel terribly sick by spending too much time in front of the screen and also understand the story?
>they read for long enough they need to take a break to digest/decompress
This, it's too much information to digest, If I read for too long I'll just forget everything that happened, I had to take breaks to do nothing besides recapitulate the events on my head to not lose track of the plot.
>it's literally impossible for to read the whole thing in less than 9 months
When I was a neet I went through it in under a week by reading 12-16 hours a day. Even if you have a job, it should only take you a month if you have at least 3 hours a day to spare
>at least 3 hours a day to spare
nta but
>3.5 hours commute
What does the whole meta world stuff even mean? Was battler literally isekai'd to an alternate hell dimension where he has to battle witches? Or was that entire thing just I giant metaphor to portray the themes of the story? It seemed like that stuff was literally happening in the first half, but the second half got weird and confusing in regards to that? What even is real in this god damn story? I feel like I wasted my time watching a bunch of scenes that literally never happened.
If you answered magic the metaworld is real
if you answered trick it isn't
simple as
>What does the whole meta world stuff even mean?
F/sn is garbage for morons. here let me show you
It's all just a way to tell the story and convey what certain characters think - it is useful to you in figuring out to the story if you interpret it the right way. Of course, that's not to say there is nothing actually supernatural in Umineko... but that's really only outside of the gameboard. And a few characters in the meta world, like the voyagers, aren't just there for the purpose of the narrative. The supernatural DOES exist in Umineko's universe, but it never really exists in the context of the tragedy occurring on Rokkenjima.
Yeah, that's honestly what I didn't really like about it. Like I understand the whole point was about solving the mystery and all the other themes it had. But I'm someone who is more interested in the characters themselves I guess. And basically being told, "All those characters you liked are either dead or never existed, none of the games are real, and all that fun stuff with witches never actually happened. Sorry, buddy. Solve the mystery I guess." was kind of a big frick you to the me spending 100+ hours reading this hoping for something more. I don't know, guess it's not for me.
Well, R07 uses all the meta stuff as actually undoubtedly real in a lot of writing outside of Umineko itself. It's just in relation to Ange's world/narrative that he keeps all that ambiguity.
Last Note of the Golden Witch is even all fantasy/meta, without any kind of real world grounding at all. Or the prologue to Hotarubi which includes Lambdadelta. Or the crossover with Higurashi Mei.
>using mobile game
ALL MAGIC IS ANOTHER VERSION OF REALITY
Ikuko is Yasu
all your garbage are just b***hing to deny this fact
Shkanontrice is dogshit don't worry
>all your garbage are just b***hing to deny this fact
Script by Ryukishi for the first Umineko event.
Also, like I said, the Hotarubi prologue (First and Last Gift) features Lambdadelta. It's just a light novel though so no pictures.
as i said mobile game advertising do not matter a single shit
read the VN
Hotarubi isn't a mobile game. It's a manga (and the prologue a light novel)
so even more reason to being dogshit
But anon, no piece of fiction is ever real.
no need to remind me
>none of the games are real, and all that fun stuff with witches never actually happened
All of the games were real and all of the witch stuff actually happened. Featherine uses the red truth in the human world and Bernkastel is explicitely Rika. The only reason the meta stuff is written in a way where most of it can be reasoned as "not real" is because allowing for that interpretation adds to the themes of story and it's exploration of the dichotomy between fantasy and mystery as genres.
>What does the whole meta world stuff even mean? Was battler literally isekai'd to an alternate hell dimension where he has to battle witches? Or was that entire thing just I giant metaphor to portray the themes of the story?
In functions as both simultaneously. But like the other anon
said you're not supposed to view the supernatural elements of the plot as actual things that happened in the story, it's more like "Supernatural elements in this world debate whether or not it's possible if supernatural stuff could have existed in this mystery event"
>What even is real in this god damn story?
Gameboards aren't real but are like puzzle pieces to solving the actual story elements for the reader
>Check out this 1v1 fight montage I have with my witch-sensei
>homosexual get back to the ACTUAL event
>ahaha.wav
It's literally just purgatory.
So Battler and/or Ikuko wrote some of the chapters, yeah? I'm assuming the metaworld stuff in them is seperate from that?
yes and yes
But what if instead of small bombs they put nitroglycerine in the food?
Despite having XY chromosomes, I am a woman. You must acknowledge me as a woman, otherwise you have no love and are a stupid goat.
Now say it. Say I'm a beautiful woman
AHEM
Today I remind them.
KINZO WAS AFRAID TO COMMIT THE SAME SIN AGAIN. YOU CAN'T GET A MAN PREGNANT. SO YASU IS A FEMALE
THE SIN IS YASU LIKE STATED IN EP4 ITALIAN LYRICS
EVEN IF THE SIN IS RAPE, KINZO RAPED BEATRICE 2 JUST BECAUSE SHE STARTED LOOKING LIKE BEATRICE, A MAN DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A WOMAN, AND EVEN IF HE DID IT, YOU UNDERSTAND IT ONLY AFTER YEARS THE BABY IS BORN.
KINZO FORCED NATUSHI TO RISE HIM AS A MALE TO AVOID ANOTHER RAPE
NATSUHI FANTACISIM FOR KINZO ALLOWED EVERYTHING HE SAID
frick off newbie
-will-never-be-a-real-woman
Yasu is a woman
>A change of perspective makes affects the meaning of a statement.
you are my wife. I would never marry a man, therefore you are a woman.
I don't get the whole Yasu troony shit. Wasn't Kanon's existence a direct result of Yasu realising that he is a male, and thus tried to fit within the role of one? Shannon still exists because he spent his entire life being told that he was female, which permanently affected his psychology.
KINZO WAS AFRAID TO COMMIT THE SAME SIN AGAIN
you can't get pregnat a male so Yasu is female.
Kinzo and Williard confirmed Yasu is a woman
and lion who has 0 accidents looks like a total woman.
Stop with this bullshit
BLUE TRUTH: Kinzo was mentally deranged, so it is highly possible that he believed he could impregnate a male Yasu.
It makes complete sense that someone who is not in the right state of mind would believe things that don't make sense.
>Kinzo was mentally deranged, so it is highly possible that he believed he could impregnate a male Yasu.
Kinzo's love was shown to Williard, deny that mean deny love.
Mystery do not allow someone is stupid as solution
everything has a meaning
Everything about this character real sex is stupid.
>he spent his entire life being told that he was female
This is the dumbest thing about this story. There is no way this could happen at least in real life because, if the surgery is what you're implying, it would need constant "maintenance", it's not a one time thing and is impossible to not notice.
>This is the dumbest thing about this story. There is no way this could happen at least in real life because, if the surgery is what you're implying, it would need constant "maintenance", it's not a one time thing and is impossible to not notice.
9 years in an aisland and no one ever notice that he was a male or he was Shannon?
Shkanontrice works only with the premise everyone is a moron and Eva never did research on Shannon.
>9 years in an aisland and no one ever notice that
dude wolves are in kanon's pants don't check them
servants changing cloths together and see the abominations created by Nanjo?
no one made a question?
no one is school during gym?
LMAO
Yasu is a woman or the only solution for Umineko is just eveyone is dumb pls ignore
this man peeps wieners on the clock
YASU HAD AN OPERATION AT 0YO AND FROM THAT MOMENT HE NEVER DILATED A SINGLE DAY
enjoy the result
>yes i memorized what all my classmates dicks looked like and snapped pics of my coworkers at the urinal but uhhh d-dial 8
we speak about woman tard.
during chaning clothes they will notice some abomination by even bad looking at it
Shannon is not Yasu
have you tried not being italian?
you gonna try and get me to read your shitty manifesto?
anyway what did r07 mean by this?
and what the absolute FRICK did he mean by the entirety of ciconia?
is he woke or not?
I solved Higurashi ttoo as a mystery so Ciconia will be the same
>what Ryukishi mean
that Yasu is a woman
>stop being italian
Never best ticket at nationality lottery
> and what the absolute FRICK did he mean by the entirety of ciconia?
> is he woke or not?
American Politics is an aberration, so don't expect people outside of America to adhere to its "rules".
but is he gay or something
why is whatever the hell is in miyao's pants a plot point
He understands gender identity is the next big societal conflict now that homosexuality is more or less settled. He was a social worker briefly before trying out writing a screenplay, so I would argue at bare minimum he's a person who's big on a government social safety net. You can't really view other countries politics through the American culture war lens though, because only America is schizophrenic enough to waste their time on that instead of real policy.
well, whatever.
i'll continue to make ACK! jokes about yasu anyway.
KINZO WAS AFRAID TO COMMIT THE SAME SIN AGAIN
YOU CAN'T GET PREGNANT A MALE
Yasu is female no matter all the bullshit you will spam.
Umineko VN confirms it
>YOU CAN'T GET PREGNANT A MALE
you can make a male pregnant you simply have to cum in them enough
>this is what SHkanontrice cucks think
this explain your theory a lot
Frick off already to /jp/, morons.
Why can't we enjoy both?
Episode 8 ruined Battler as a character
Episode 5 did, we go straight from Battler avenging Ange with his rage against the witch to him being all romantic with her and sperging out about his honorable chess board.
I still consider it the best Episode and he does have some cool moments in it but it's silly how easy he forgets about Ange's sacrifice despite it being such an important moment for him in Ep 4.
His rage against Beatrice is more a competitive one. He doesn't even believe she was the culprit, and she never even killed anyone anyway. I don't see the sense in avenging Ange from someone you don't even believe did anything on the island.
>she never even killed anyone anyway
uhhhh, she didn't directly kill them, but it doesn't change the fact that they wouldn't have died if she didn't do what she did.
Bernkastel literally proved that they would have killed each other anyway had she not done what she did by using Lion's world as an as example.
Fanfictiom
Bernkastle didn't know nothing about the story
I really wonder what the hell happened in that world. Natsuhi should be well-adjusted and Lion is not a huge schizo like Yasu was. How the hell did it end up in a shoot out? The family might still have had their debts, but with Lion being the head of the family, I'd expect him to share part of the inheritance with his brothers to bail them out.
Well yeah, but that's basically because Kinzo did in that world what Yasu did in "the normal world". We also know that the tragedy wouldn't have happened if Asumu didn't die, so it's not like the tragedy is 100% unavoidable.
>We also know that the tragedy wouldn't have happened if Asumu didn't die
Is this from the ninth episode that released a few years ago or am I just a speed reader?
Yeah. There's an English fantranslation which is... not good, to say the least, but it's still barely readable.
>There's an English fantranslation which is... not good, to say the least, but it's still barely readable.
This is from Steam's release with 07th mod
Thankfully I'm not a homosexual that gets triggered by the words "it can't be helped".
You saying that you understand the second sentence?
After reading the context, I think I do understand, yes. But I don't know what's your point honestly. Umineko is a very long game, a few awkwardly translated lines is understandable. The fantranslation of EP9 is barely better than a MTL, in comparison.
I never cared about "can't be helped" or whatever
the second sentence doesn't even make sense in its context but sure, you do you
She's calling Rosa a low-level magical container because she's a schizo who thinks Rosa is evil because she's possessed by an evil witch.
The UP version of that line is the same, btw.
>UP version
what?
Umineko Project version, which uses a different translation compared to the Steam Version.
How moronic do you have to be to not understand that even his "rage" at the end of Ep4 isn't truly genuine?
I can't think of a bigger waste of time discussing something like Umineko, a roughly 100 hour long VN, with morons on the worst board on the site. Who makes these threads?
READ ERIKANTRICE MANIFESTO HERE
THE REAL TRUTH OF UMINEKO
https://www.docdroid.net/lnzdHQc/erikantrice-manifesto-pdf
in the pic what happened in reality and from now even a video
demo DAMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I read the entirety of Umineko as it came out and I feel like I'm being generous when I give it a 4/10. It's a convoluted mess that reads like it was written by a 12 year old. The Japanese fanbase refuses to so much as give Ryuukishi the time of the day nowadays for good reason.
Honestly, I find the extent to which the western fanbase is obsessed with Umineko to this day to be frightening in a sense. I have no idea how you guys can drone on about it day after day nearly ten years after the final episode was released; Ryuukishi is a hack who has no idea how to actually tell a story that does anything except continually bait the reader with red herrings and empty promises of greater themes. He's been like this since Higurashi and will never improve, either on a technical level or as a storyteller in general.
Like I said, almost no Japanese fan cares about Ryuukishi nowadays, and it's more than people just being pissed off about episode 8 of Umineko (people were pissed off about Minagoroshi and Matsuribayashi long before then, anyway). It's because they've had enough exposure to him to see through his tricks and stop falling for his brand of spectacle and sophistry. And yes, his terrible, childish text is part of the problem too - there are parts of Higurashi that have such embarrassingly poor writing that they're used as copypasta on 2ch.
I don't know how the western fanbase continues to put up with Ryuukishi, and I honestly feel that it's damaging to the community as a whole to continue to obsess this much over a single work so long after the fact.
https://www.docdroid.net/lnzdHQc/erikantrice-manifesto-pdf
Shkanontrice is fake
read the manifesto
Umineko is a 10/10
schizo
>stop liking things
>japanese people dont like these things
>so you should stop liking these things
>replying to a copypasta
read an actual good vn
but we are, its called Umineko
how about you go read an actual good nitroplus vn like Demonbane
>generic lovecraft eroge trash
no wonder you like umishit instead of fun r07 vns like higanbana
Umineko is a masterpice of mystery
generic shounen shit frick off
>Higanbanana
>fun
you're contrarian as frick, holy shit. take your ass back to 'reddit
>umitroony calling others reddit
lol
>posting muv luv
go to a circus, you fricking clown.
Other VNs like Umineko? something with a feeling of "figuring out the truth", investigative story that reveals details as the story progresses.
raging loop
the most Umineko VN
Higurashi obviously, but you've probably read that. I keep hearing people mentioning The House in Fata Morgana as similar to Umineko, but I have not yet read it.
Well, there are games where you're literally a detective trying to solve a case, like Kara no Shoujo.
If you don't want something quite like that and are comfortable with more "thriller" elements then there's the infinity series stuff. Remember11 in particular will get your noggin joggin if you really try to piece everything together yourself.
DO NOT READ KARA NO SHOUJO.
Unless you want to become jaded and desperate like us because finale in English never ever
Man, that game fricked me up. but yes, the third game is never ever coming out.
Real literature like Pale Fire or The Name of the Rose are pretty similar.
Watch out anons, reading The Name of the Rose might freak you out a little with how similar some of the devices are (literally and figuratively).
Anyway, he asked for VNs. Literature related to Umineko is practically endless.
I don’t know if it counts, but the Ace Attorney series is the only one that comes close to Umineko in the mistery and “holy shit!” departments.
LMAO
Play raging loop
Isn’t that untranslated?
Official translated on steam
Masterpiece
I had no idea.. I’ll check it out
Not him, Raging Loop is great but it doesn't come close to Umineko in the mystery aspect. Like Umineko it's supposed to be about the MC trying to prove a human culprit in a supernatural murder mystery, but very few chances for actual deduction are presented since basically no clues are given to the player and the MC ends up spending most of his time trying to navigate the mechanics of the village gatherings only to decide 80% through the plot that "oh yeah, there's a mystery I should try to solve". So if you want the feeling of solving murders that you get from Umi you won't find it with Raging Loop. There are also some plot twists towards the last third of the game that are objectively awful writing and might hurt your enjoyment of the overall experience. It's really messy because of that last third but I would still give it an 8/10 just for how strong everything before it was.
Up until the end, Raging Loop is great, but yea, there isn't much investigation but you DO get hints and can put some stuff together.
Gonna be honest though: Umineko isn't really much of an investigation either. You have much more freetime in a sense, but it's still 'romance'.
Yes you do get some hints for raging loop, but The human explanation is terrible. I already considered knockout gas and electronic locks way before the confirmation but ruled them out because they're stupid explanations that don't actually follow believable logic. Hiding an electronic lock in shitty wooden doors for 20+ years with no one noticing is less believable than an actual ookami. The mystery doesn't follow any rules and is filled with plotholes like Cheimi rotting away and the werewolf being unkillable and 20 feet tall. It seems like the writer wasn't happy with it either because the extra content retcons everything by saying it all WAS supernatural and the werewolf was real, but the MC just rewrote reality to fit his own explanation because he has subconsious psychic powers. Umi kind of has something similiar with the catbox murders but it's just executed a hundred times better, I hate that butch sheep so fricking much.
>Umineko isn't really much of an investigation either
What I mean is that Battler spends tons of time analysing the various murders and trying to figure out how they're performed by ruling out all possibilites, Fusaishi on the other hand is entirely focused on staying alive and does very little detective work until the end.
like Cheimi rotting away and the werewolf being unkillable and 20 feet tall.
These are my issues too.
The rest isn't that crazy. And yea I ended up hating the sheep too, especially with their reveal.
13 sentinels
Loads:
raging loop, higurashi, Ace attourney, Danganronpa, Zero Escape, Ai: Somnium files, 428: Shibuya Shuffle
Shut up, Erika.
Did the stage play ever get translated?
>Umineko STILL filters illiterate homosexuals after all these years
is the umineko anime worth watching for a "so bad it's good" factor or is it just boring/irredeemable
there is no tsukihi- i mean, umineko anime
would you frick a literal axewound, Ganker?
>no cuh fanart of maria because she acts too much like a real child (annoying little shit)
pedocoomer KYS
best mom
Umineko new anime when? I need batches of Ange and Jessica R34 to coom.
>remake cuts out best scene
Jessica's cosplay and the song she sings are metaphors for Beatrice.
>fighting game puts the song and the toohoo cosplays on the background but not the remake
yeah what's up with that?
Probably ZUN's guidelines getting in the way, as long as you're talking about the PS3 version. The original Umineko releases were Comiket doujin stuff after all.
How the frick did they kill this level of hype going into sotsu
I literally cannot fathom how such a thing is possible
by disguting fillers
coomers watch anime not 07th fans
They didn't
Just pretend everything but the last two eps exist
>Episode 1-6 Battler - Even if it's just on the gameboard deeply cares about the fate of everyone on the island and gets upset at how they get killed in horrible ways
>Episode 8 - lol
>didn't even realize there was a mystery i had to attempt to solve until it dawned on me during the chapter 7 minigame
How many layers of goat am I on?
I only figured out Beatrice's identity was somehow related to Shannon and Kanon and it's obviously these two who are pushing it.
Which turned out to be right, even if I guess they wanted us to actually figure out the trick
You just didn't read nothing of umineko
Mystery was the main theme
What is?
How to write it?
How to solve it?
>mystery was the main theme
I wish, but it wasn't
Was
Just Shkanontroce can't survive with mystery as theme
Mystery isn't a theme, It's a genre. Umineko offers commentary on the mystery genre, but it isn't a theme.
The core theme of umineko is understanding (And what it means to understand). This is why they spend so long repeating "Without love it cannot be seen."
It has other lesser themes, like Atonement, cycles of abuse, crisis of identity etc, but the whole story is about understanding and the importance of learning how to reach it yourself.
Mystery created the love between Battler and Beatrice
Mystery made Yasu create Beatrice
Mystery is how Ikuko trying to make Battler remember
MYSTERY IS TEACH IN UMINEKO
AND ALL OF THIS GONE FOR CONFIRM A DOGSHIT SOLUTION
How the heck am I supposed to know if Umineko was my first VN and I had never read any mystery novel/book before?
Despite all that, I still enjoyed it with all my soul, and that's alright imo
Umineko teach to you everything about mystery
Don't listen the fanstics of the official solution
Unironically, I believe thats one of the better ways to experience umineko, just reading along and taking the things as it happens.
yep, just a hype novel, not worth taking notes
>characters letter address you as the reader and tell you to try and solve the mystery
>chapters have difficulty rankings
>climax's with the player actually having to solve a mystery in Bern's game
>no bro don't think about it, just consoom product.
Do you also "play" video games by watching your favourite streamers?
I think reading it completely uncritically is kind of wasteful, but I also don't think you have to read it like mystery fiction just because someone said so. A recurring theme in the story is that overcoming the predefined terms of a debate or concept can lead to a greater understanding, a theme I agree with. Engaging with the stoey through other methods of analysis still shows R07 "love" by taking his story seriously, and those other methods can even come to the "correct" culprit and theory through simply grasping the characters and their motivations.
If I had my current mindset when reading it, I probably wouldn't bother either since I struggle to trust R07 anymore
The one thing that didn't sit right with me was beatrice breaking down in ep 4 over how battler doesn't seem to be making progress towards understanding her/yasu motives/heart
except that when battler was starting to do exactly that, beatrice pulls the rug out from under him and reinforices the idea that she's a psychopath that thinks his family members dying is funny, so what the frick did she expect battler to do except think she really is a witch he has to reject in all ways?
women
>Your mom didn't give birth to you so I don't think you exist
How do you refute this?
My mom is not my real mother
You're smarter than Batler
Caesarian section. Oldest trick in the book, goes back to Macbeth.
[Glass them]
I'm the biggest brain let ever and the moment I saw that I thought "I was adopted" or "my dad had me with other woman", such an easy solution.
Is it true that the later works retconned 2nd beatrice to not actually be kinzo's biological daughter?
Fanfiction of some moron
Why didn't Yasu just send emails instead of bottles? Why didn't the cast use their cellphones?
Themes
Ikuko needed for her stories to be in every sinngle media to make it Popular enought for Battler to discover it by his own
Krauss confiscated all technological devices on the island for crypto mining. It was a great market to try and break into back in 1986.
Miss Erikantrice in total love and total truth
No service in the shitty island.
i = y
Higurashi>>>>>>>>>>>>
Unpopular fact: "Solving" the mystery is only possible if you followed the story as the episodes were released and participated in discussions on the internet.
Reason: The "solutions" are so shitty and out of the world, the only way to find them is to have billions of "goats" throwing shit at the wall until something sticks. Ironically, the "best" aka most insane solutions probably acted as inspiration for the author which makes them self fulling prophecies.
Also magic is real
SHAKNONTROCE IS NOT THE SOLUTION
WOTH ERIKANTRICE YOU CAN SOLVE IT ALL
>Plan is for everyone to die on island
>People actually start dying
>OH NO THIS ISNT WHAT I MEANT
What the frick did Sayo want, really?
battler's penis
Shannon is not Yasu
>schizo
Loveless goats like you are the reason why Umineko is so hated
I'm sorry anon but you can't call writing fanfiction about how a witch is going to kill your family and then sending it in a bottle across the sea anything but a schizo move.
Ikuko put the letter in the sea years after the tragedy
Tard
The whole point was to show that yasu was a pussy who wouldn't actually go through with anything. The person she believed she could be in her bottles/forgeries and the person she actually was are very different. People are capable of having a change of heart, sometimes they just need to be pushed to the edge to have it.
It's important to keep in mind that Bernkastel's fragment she created with Lion, by Bern's own admission, is fundamentally impossible. It's a cross-stitch of two or more different fragments together. In the fragment Bern created, it is framed as the adults getting upset with Kinzo's favoritism towards lion and him presenting his children with the riddle. While Bern's fragment depicts Rokkenjima Prime, it is still a deliberate illusion made to be misleading (why else not show Ange the truth of Battler surviving?).
In a "True Lion Fragment", the events depicted wouldn't happen. The adults wouldn't have guns, because they are normally in kinzo's study (shown in manga), not in the gold room where the fight broke out (which had guns because of Yasu's plans). Even if the adults solved the riddle and got to the gold, Kyrie would have had to go sicko mode on 2+ fully grown men before she could have got access to a gun. Kinzo also wouldn't even let it happen in the first place, since he only gives a frick about Lion, and has zero reason to let the adults try anything at all anyway. The epitaph was placed in 1984, two years before the incident, as a means to resurrect Beatrice, something he wouldn't have done if Lion existed, so they would only ever be able to get to the gold room on Kinzo's word as well. If the adults are in the gold room, kyrie/rudolf have no reason to kill either, since they stand to gain nothing.
explain synchronicity if magic isn't real
inb4 you don't even see synchronicity happen almost daily, you god damned npcs.
>Everyone dies in the first chapter
>Now they're back
Heh? Eh?
HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE??????? *pans up to sky*
If you truly believe in magic, they are still alive in the Golden Land, having fun drinking tea and eating biscuits
If you don't, they are all dead, but how? How did they die? Who, or what killed them?
But you can't just constantly change the murder mystery.
The howdunnit might be different, but the beginning (arrival on the island) and the end (everyone dies except some) are all the same
It's up to you, the reader, to analyze and come up with a rational solution to what really happened
Magic.
why not?
Insult to the reader
The why dunnit is still the same
The entire point is that the whydunnit is more important, as it is what drives the characters to do the actions in the first place. This is stated explicitly in the story in no uncertain terms.
That is why the whydunnit remains constant, because that's what the story is about figuring out. It's an insult to the author to not understand this.
YEAP
WILLOARD
I WILL NEVER BELIVE PEOPLE KILL NOT FOR LOVE
IN SHKANONTROCE THE ACCOMPLICE KILL FOR MONEY
NOT FOR LOVE
Completely frick up everything written in umineko
whoosh
bump
Each game board has different hints for the overall mystery
The culprit doesn't change in the first 4 episodes, it's always the same killer
I got to chapter 4 originally and stopped playing. Was fond of it, just it fricking took forever. Should I jump back in?
Yasu was born a man
The story changed because BT died
The final answer is remembering your loved ones rather than dwelling on their deaths
The metaworld exists in a state of duality as a real place and also just part of the message bottle mysteries
There is not enough evidence to prove ikuko being yasu or not, but the themes heavily imply it.
Logic errors were introduced in the story because of 2chanons solving the mystery and 07th changing it as he went on, it's his confession so to speak.
Episode 5 "lacks love" because it makes Battler an accomplice in Yasu's plot when she only ever makes the plots for him to solve.
You can solve the who dunnit, how dunnit, and why dunnit with only the first 4 games, but the last 4 are necessary to truly understand what the frick is going on.
Disagree = witch-hunt
>You can solve the who dunnit, how dunnit, and why dunnit with only the first 4 games,
Not all of them.
I guessed kanontrice, and the how to some extent, but the bombs? How the truck can you guess the bombs?
You can solve it with the third party narrative regarding what the police found at the island, the fact that the game always ends explicitly at 12, and Beato's last riddle stating that despite Battler being completely alone on the island with no beings, she would still kill him.
>There is not enough evidence to prove ikuko being yasu or not, but the themes heavily imply it.
you've changed, namegay, you used to be a lot more stubborn on this one
glad you conceded over time
"Guaranteed to win at X time"
"Skeletal remains unidentifiable except for a jawbone"
what is capable of these two things?
A big fire? That was my explanation
Fire doesn't burn bones, even crematoriums often have remains that aren't ashes.
Beyond this, the story gives clues that fires WOULDN'T do this, with kinzo's corpse being incinerated and still having elements that identify him.
>The story changed because BT died
headcanon
>There is not enough evidence to prove ikuko being yasu
Because she isn't and you lack basic storytelling comprehension if you think otherwise, it's literally on the level of saying Nanjo = Kinzo.
They were practically gay lovers. Yes his death changed the story, 6 jumped the shark and diverted from a chunni mystery focus literally because his best friend and frankly saving grace editor died.
>You can solve the who dunnit, how dunnit, and why dunnit with only the first 4 games, but the last 4 are necessary to truly understand what the frick is going on.
>Logic errors were introduced in the story because of 2chanons solving the mystery and 07th changing it as he went on, it's his confession so to speak.
these two things are incompatible
They aren't. As long as by the time the 4th game is released, there are no errors, you can still solve it. The logic error is put into the game as a confession by him that he changed things as he went along.
What did he change exactly?
No, it's the opposite. The "logic error" plot is here to tell you that rewriting the mystery after reading the fan theories would be moronic. What would he have changed anyway?
KINZO WAS AFRAID TO COMMIT THE SAME SIN AGAIN
YOU CAN'T GET PREGNANT A MAN
TARD
YES WITH ERIKANTRICE
NOT WITH SHKANONTRICE
Yes
I really can't stand episode 8 Battler
For no other reason than he stops resembling the character he was in the first 6 episodes entirely with little to no explanation
The entire point of his character is that he is a different person after understanding who/what Beatrice is. The only thing left for him to accomplish is to take Ange off her self-destructive path, and dedicates himself to that. It'd be out of character for him to do anything else.
Episode 5/6 BATTLER is still different than episode 8 BATTLER
how so
I feel like he acts even more detached and weirdly cold except to Ange
In Episode 5 he still cared about things like defending Natsuhi even after becoming the territory lord whereas in 8 he's pretty callous about shit, I dunno maybe it's just supposed to be that way in 8 because of the Tohya/Battler conflict in the real world is influencing meta BATTLER
I really don't think so, he still demonstrates identical character behavior, just with different motivations
To tack on here, thanks to the manga showing us what happens to Beato and Battler when they sink into the sea, we get confirmation that Battler in 1-4 is simultaneously a fraction of his memories that Tohya lost and also the character written into the stories. Once he regains his memories in the 5th game, he understands that he's basically dead. But that he can also help Ange because apparently Ryukishi wanted her to actually go to the metaworld.
I'd always thought that her sudden change on the roof in 8 was because of a manuscript and doll that Tohya sent to her in lieu of meeting her out of fear, but the manga just confirms that she got isekai'd
>manga
not canon.
Tough shit, ryukishi said it was canon.
Never said it
Confirmed it after years onmy because was forced by a contract
Or you belive Satoko is lambda after a game advertising anime said it?
He told me at a convention that Satoko was Lambda's piece in Higurashi when he came to one in the states. I don't expect you to believe me, nor do I need you to because he put out the new higurashi material showing it anyway.
>me at convection
Ahahahahahahahahahahahha
This is a new level of shilking
What he said about erikantrice?
>implying he's the real italianon
no, he said the chapters that he wrote about Yasu's confession are canon.
So I get that Shannon/Kanon were Yasu swapping between identities and stuff in Episode 1, but they're actually characters in Ep 2 onwards right? Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice all split into 3 different people and were made "real" when they became pieces? At the very least, I feel like they're never seen together in Ep 1 but they are in Ep 2 onwards
I could be wrong but the only time Shannon/Kanon appear together is with servant characters (People who are in on it) or magic scenes which on the game board is literal untrustworthy narrator tier
No. Any time they are "seen together", Battler is never a witness and thus the scene is fictitious, generally a metaphorical depiction of a conversation going in Yasuda's head as they disagree with themselves. They do that rather often.
they were already actual characters when episode 1 occured. Episode 1 is already taking place inside the catbox, Battler just doesn't know it yet/remember that he died. The real world version of the incident happens before the start of the game. Shannon and kanon can always be shown together so long as the "detective" isn't present in the scene.
Dlanor was the best thing about Umineko.
Simple AS.
What would the Gou/Sotsu version of Umineko be?
I don't get it, why is 7 hated again?
I thought 8 was the most hated? If people hate 7 it's probably because Battler isn't in it and neither is Beatrice unless you count Clair
Oh A LOT of people hated 7. I personally really disliked it and it's pretty much what you said. Didn't like new character explaining the answers. At least make it Battler.
Willard is just Yasu's idealized version of Battler though.
I legit don't give a frick and reject it as she would have MADE it still be Battler. As if this story needed MORE characters.
Because Will was boring plot device and was only brought in to answer all the questions. And then he only answered them in oblique poem so it wasn't even satisfying.
Williard BTFO shannon=Kanon and confirms Yasu is a woman
This is why you hate him
I am on mobile tard
Ypu just never read the VN
I must waist my time so you can avoid reading the VN?
I started reading the VN in 2009 up to the third game. Then read it on release every year.
Post screenshots and provide proof for your claim, it's not hard to do. You are the one trying to convince this board that Yasu is a girl and is also Erika. None of us believe you.
Provide proof!
>And then he only answered them in oblique poem so it wasn't even satisfying.
I liked it
Will was cool, shit taste Shannon poster
Will was unbelievably boring. You won't find anyone saying Will was their favorite character.
Also I'm a Yasuda poster thank you very much.
>You won't find anyone saying Will was their favorite character.
>believe my headcanon
You really won't. Even Will's most diehard fans are just run of the mill Battlergays who appreciate his gallantry.
Black Battler X Beatrice dress Shannon is my shit
if only Battler didn't have shit taste and like blondes we got robbed
SHANNON IS NOT YASU
SHANNON IS OLDERN THAN BATTLER
YASU IS YOUNGER THAN JESSICA
Will was almost universally loved both here and in Japan when EP7 released. He ranked 4th in the first popularity poll after Ep7.
>You won't find anyone saying Will was their favorite character.
wrong
>And then he only answered them in oblique poem so it wasn't even satisfying.
That's the most kino part of Umineko though
Incredible how it still filters people nowadays.
>bad ideas and writing filters people
>only the true bootlickers can love this story
Amazing and based.
>it's bad writing because... it just is, ok?
I don't think you really need much explanation as to why people might find Battler being sidelined and others solving his mysteries shit and bad writing.
Are you mentally moronic? Battler solved it in ep5 and his story ended in ep6. Battler arc is finished, done.
I dont have a problem with it but the people that do probably would argue that Battler solving everything instantly in the "And then I knew" scene robs them of the experience of him actually presenting the solutions
That said Beatrice was dead at that point so
Very much this.
Is there a Sherlock Holmes novel that ends with the cops explaining it to Watson?
The tea party of 4 already exists, if you want to see Battler try to explain everything. A new scene where Battler would just explain the correct answers would be pointless.
Yea, and he should be the one revealing it to the audience.
That's not his job. Why would he do it?
Those are completely thematically different stories. This argument doesn't make any sense.
I love how you have to bend backwards and snap your spine to try to justify this. Let's be honest: It won't matter how I explain it, you won't accept it. Somehow you think an audience can follow an MC investigate a mystery but be happy when a never seen before character reveals it instead.
>I love how you have to bend backwards and snap your spine to try to justify this
Sorry, but I am not following your schizophrenia.
>MC investigate a mystery
Battler gave up on it in ep 5 and he wasn't making any progress beforehand. (You) are the one who supposed to solve it.
So Battler DIDN'T solve the mystery. news to me.
Don't be an overdramatic homosexual. The point is Battler is not your typical detective character.
He can be atypical and you can still say it's not satisfying to have someone else reveal it.
Battler is not Sherlock, doesn't matter how much you complain.
Ok, now ACTUALLY refute this part:
>you can still say it's not satisfying to have someone else reveal it.
He is the MC and has agency.
>has agency
No, he is not.
Go to sleep, anon. This post made no sense.
I refuse. Your entire argument is based off "thing x is similar to y, therefore it should behave the same way, because... just because, ok?"
No, dumbass, we already moved on, to PURE literary devices.
Forget the Sherlock shit, move on, realize what makes a satisfying narrative in general. What sort of things.
>satisfying narrative in general
Something that you can't describe, cuz it's subjective?
I don't care if you're a Battlergay seething because he wasn't in Ep7, I'm talking to someone angry about the fact that Will didn't explicitly explain his answers.
8 is certainly the most hated. At the time people hated 7 tremendously but after time came around to it.
For me, I hated 7 because it just threw in Yasu instead of just sticking with one of her 3 personalities. There actually is no way to figure out who Yasu is up to this point. You could guess that there's a chief person behind all 3 people, but it's just occams razor that one of the 3 is the real one.
I also didn't care for the poem, but then i realized that he basically tells you what golden truth is, and then suddenly he's just solving the first four games for you.
Shannon is not yasu
EP7 CONFIRM THAT YASU IS YOUNGER THAN JESSICA
SHANNON ISNTEAD IS DESCIBED BY GEORGE AS OLDERN THAN BATTLER
FOR SHKANONTRICE YASU IS SHANNON SINCE DAY 1
AKA FOR THE PARENTS YASU HAS 2 DIFFERENT AGE
IMPOSSIBLE
READ HERE SHANNON IS NOT YASU
Willaird never asked for yasu gender in ep7?
Post screenshots where the characters say things that back up your theory.
Shannon is not Yasuda. But they are two individuals sharing a body along with Kanon.
They're a proto-CPP triumvirate. Read Ciconia.
Psychotically based and seconded. Walls of peace enjoyers will read ciconia
FOUND TARD
>People often ask me about my gender. So, I always give the same irritated response. Which do you think I look like?"
>...In the 5th game, you're treated as a boy
AKA FOR EVERYONE LION IS NOT A MAN BUT DE JURE HE IS
0 INCIDENT AND RAISED AS A MAN
STILL PEOPLE BELIVE IN HIM BEING A WOMAN
Shannon is never be part of Yasu
aka you confirm you don't know
samegay
ciconia is gayshit do not read
Ciconia is When They Cry: "Oops! All Yasus"
why'd he have to make the american the gayest homosexual to ever exist?
i should reread ciconia actually, the story's all fuzzy in my mind also NEXT PHASE FRICKING WHEN?
>why'd he have to make the american the gayest homosexual to ever exist?
He made the american an unashamed chad who happens to look pretty.
IRL fighter pilots got a slap on the wrist for that.
It's funny. Umineko was his lashing out at people who hated matsuribayashi-hen for being contrived and impossible, now ciconia is his lashing out at people who hated shkanontrice.
Because shkanontrice jsut said ep5 and 6 are not mystery
they have nothing to explain and use logic on it
Wasn't disagreeing. 8 is probably most hated but wouldn't be surprised if 7 wins.
Here's your golden truth.
Frick off
GOHDA RAPED JESSICA
Biggest flaw with episode 7 is that Willard and Lion don't deserve a witch portrait
George is a fat frick. A fat frick!
Ryuukishi is a hack who can only milk Higurashi's success by ruining it. Umineko and >Ciconia is the proof that when his ghost writer is gone, he can't write a good story without making things convoluted
>ciconia
>convoluted
May I suggest reading something more your level, like the Mr.Men?
Will does explain his answers though, earth sentences are real, illusion sentences are fake, and gold truth sentences are things that everyone collectively agreed to or believed.
Williard explained that Lion was a woman with the same sentence
TARD
That's not being disputed right now though, the merits of Willard being the presenter vs Battler is
While understanding already that Battler figured shit out in ep05
>Battler arrives on Rokkenjima
>Oh hey Shannon, sorry I didn't bring my white horse but you never responded to any of my letters - did George not give them to you?
Realistically what happens in this situation
First shannon is not yasu
SECOND BATTLER NEVER FORGOT YASU AND RETURNED ON THE ISLAND JUST TO SEE HER AGAIN
George destroyed the letters
and by destroyed you mean ate
>George destroyed the letters
yeah but Yasu couldn't know that
same for Battler
so both doubt about the other one and felt the sama pain
YASU IS A WOMAN
KINZO WAS AFRAID TO COMMIT THE SAME SIN AGAIN
YOU CAN'T GET PREGNANT A MALE
LION HAD 0 INCIDENTS STILL LOOK LIKE 100% WOMAN
Yeah but what's up with the scene with Yasu having a melty with Genji about their body then
INCEST MONSTER
no puberty, so in no way can get the body Battler's wanted
MAGIC IS JUST ANOTHER VERISON OF REALITY
IKUKO=YASU OR AMGIC EXIST
CHOICE
Yasu's age
no puberty still look young
Yasu kills herself.
IKUKO IS YASU
ALL UMINEKO IS THE MAGIC VERSION OF HER TRYING TO MAKE BATTLER REMEMBER
All of Umineko is Ange pondering her life choices at the top of a skyscraper before deciding not to jump.
How fricked are Yasu's genitals
To the point that they cannot participate in any form of meaningful sexual intercourse. Basically nonexistent.
>To the point that they cannot participate in any form of meaningful sexual intercourse. Basically nonexistent.
her ass doesn't function either?
It's quite probable that something that annihilated their genitals probably would have decimated their anus as well. Yasuda likely has to use a colostomy bag.
The injury was so severe that they were very lucky to be saved at all. Probably just a mass of scar tissue down there.
KINZOW AS AFRAID OF COMMIT THE SAME SIN AGAIN
YOU CAN0T GET PREGNAT A MAN SO YASU IS FEMALE
willaird confirmed it Lion is a woman
so stop spamming
ALL META HAS A COUNTERPART IN REALITY
IKUKO IS YASU
>ALL META HAS A COUNTERPART IN REALITY
Who's Lambdadelta?
Who's Dlanor?
>dlanor
Knox rules
>Lmabda
Witch hunter Forum
You can't have abstract meta.
You said has a counterpart in reality.
There is no real equivalent for Lambdadelta or Dlanor.
COUNTERPART TARD
BATTLER IN FRONT HIS PC ON WITCH HUNTER FORUM SOLVED THE MYSTERY CREATED BY LAMBDA USER BY USING KNOX RULE
enjoy
KYS PEDOCOOMER
your moron theory is dead
>actually responding to the schizo
You would have better luck Maria that magic isn't real.
why doesn't Featherine's real self age? b***h is pristine still even when Ange is a baba
Magic is real simple as.
Because all the meta stuff is real, she uses red truth during the witch hunter conference.
>People legit discussing a VN with what an adaptation content added
lol
lmao
miyao's anus
Miyao's boypussy (female) (c**tboy) (dysphoric)
(robot)
If there's true love they wouldn't need to have sex
Well yeah that's literally the point and why Beatrice instantly mogs Shannon or Kanon in the love duel if Battler had returned for it
Perhaps George is a kind man who will give up on his dream of a large family for love.
Perhaps George is a cruel boy who wanted a maidservant wienersleeve.
The Ushiromiya are dead. The truth is whatever you want.
GEORGE WON THE DUEL
STILL SHKANON KILL HIM FOR BATTLER
moron THEORY
>STILL SHKANON KILL HIM FOR BATTLER
Rudolf was the one to shoot George. Yasuda didn't personally kill anyone since the epitaph was solved before the first twilight.
when she set the bomb she was consenting to everyone dying regardless of what happened after that point
When they arrived at the treasury she gave them permission to activate or deactivate the bomb at their discretion. Whatever happened after was their own fault.
Presumably, Eva reactivated the bomb to purge the evidence, or it was forgotten in the chaos.
in all the games Shkanon killed George + in reality palnned to kill george?
moron theory
>bern's bullshit
Bulshit
BATTLER LOST
SIMPLE AS
in a fair tournamert but the result is just i don0t gave a shit by Shksnon
moron theory
George only won because Battler wasn't there
And beating Jessica is easy b***h's romance was more tenuous than a high-school teen movie
George cared about having children so the use of other orifices is irrelevant as far as ShannonYasu's fears were concerned
George is the culprit
as the real heir of Kinzo he is ready to kill everyone on rokkenjima for his woman
why did Rudolf's dick cause so much trouble
Goerge is the culprit in reality
Bern's bullshit is a bullshit used to torture Ange
his dick is a bad judge of character, he'd totally stick it in crazy
How does he do it?
What was the point of making Jessica asthmatic and then never bringing it back up in the later episodes?
she's not though, she's pretending
Is this bomb like a nuclear bomb how the frick did it kill everyone
It only needs to be big enough to blow up the mansion and surrounding shit its not like the island is a city size area
It was the combined armaments of the imperial japanese station and whatever Kinzo could get off the italian submarine. Just a shitton of conventional bombs and fuel rigged to blow.
It makes sense then
Honestly, umineko is a much better story when it's totally separated from higurashi and ciconia, the meta world stuff for me is better left as unexplainable and magical and I hate that ciconia and higurashi went deeper into it trying to explain everything (and ruining it all on the process)
This is one of the worst novels I've ever read along with higurashi. I dony know how you people can stomach this trash dialogue. Reading this is a fricking chore.
Too few sex scenes for your coomer brain to endure it?