I thought wings of liberty was fricking excellent, the only thing I'd change would be the in-game artstyle being more gritty like the cutscenes instead of colourful lego blocks
Tychus did himself dirty when he signed with Mengsk.
He opted to die on his own terms at the end, and spent the last half of the campaign subtly trying to get Raynor to not go face Kerrigan, since he knew that it was a one-way street for him.
But he still stuck through it for his buddy, and even for a bit of a righteous cause he hadn't felt in over a decade.
If Tychus really wanted to kill Kerrigan at the end, he would have just pulled the trigger instead of talking to Jimmy. We see him do the exact same thing to a dominion marine, with a smile on his face, not four missions prior.
Tychus' last words were "Dayum shame..." for a reason. A deal with the devil comes with the devil's dues.
He was the best written character in SC2 by a mile.
Mengsk wouldn't have just killed him if he refused to double-deal Raynor.
Tychus would be, at worst, leverage against Raynor at a different time and place. But he'd be in prison for it, and Tychus is very much not a patient man. So, he took the chance to get out, consequences be damned.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Mengsk wouldn't have just killed him if he refused to double-deal Raynor
He didn't know that, all he was told is go convince your buddy to go kill this genocidal b***h and you're free to go, or you'll rot in here forever
At the time with the knowledge he has available it's pretty cut and dry which seems the better choice
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's implied that he knew about the suit shutting down his organs on command. That's not exactly standard marine operations.
What is unknown is when exactly he learned of this. It might have been during his suiting up and it was dropped on him like a ton of bricks, mid procedure, but it wasn't stated in the lore, to my knowledge.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What I meant is that he is more or less forced into a bad situation because he chose to take the fall for his partner all those years ago and said partner now has powerful enemies who own the prison he's stuck in
There was never once a winnable route for tychus and watching him try and come to terms with that was kino
2 years ago
Anonymous
Eh, I suppose if you go that far back, then yeah. He took the fall, and that was really his last wholly autonomous act as a free man until he decided to not kill Kerrigan.
Everything else was influenced from majorly to minimally. Influence from the law, prison, Mengsk, or literal death threats.
>Raynor managed to receive a message from Hammond, who revealed that his mother was dying, with only a few weeks to live. After some soul searching, Raynor resolved to head back to Shiloh. Findlay was against it—O'Banon had given them a job, and he was tired of Raynor complaining about their benefactor. The two men almost came to blows, but Findlay eventually relented, seeing how important heading to Shiloh was to his friend. He agreed to drop him off there and give him a day to conduct his business.
>tychus was a bro and they did him dirty
I still think its stupid that somehow they couldnt figure out a way to cut him out of the suit. I know, its booby trapped to go off if you tamper with it, but still. Not a single protoss or terran machine can somehow disable the bomb or extract tychus out of the suit without destroying it?
They know right. Why else would he always wear the suit even in the hyperion?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nobody asks or he just deflects, because he doesn't wanna go boom
2 years ago
Anonymous
>nobody asks
why >deflect
yeah because some guy that got away from mensgk, a known snake, totally isnt suspicious
2 years ago
Anonymous
They don't know that
2 years ago
Anonymous
They don't know that
They literally find out if you complete Media Blitz. Matt even says "they have a gun to his head" But they just decide to keep him on board anyway. It's really weird.
If she had a monstrous face like one of the hive queens I'd agree
>I know, its booby trapped to go off if you tamper with it
I don't think you really know. The human body is a fragile thing and it's incredibly easy to kill even when you have time-stopping alien powers. They will have teams of people monitoring Tychus every second of his life and the moment they get a whiff of him betraying he dies.
Governments have the means to kill anybody in the world today easily without any way for the victim to stop it. The only reason why we don't is because we've put so many safeguards and penalties in place that doing so would end or ruin the life of whoever is involved.
To that end, the fact that Kerrigan or Raynor didn't fricking ask the Dark Templar to simply kill Mengsk without murdering billions of Terran lives and destroying an immense amount of Terran military assets is ridiculous.
>go through all that shit and tychus dies over neutralizing kerrigan and turning her back into a human >5 minutes later. kerrigan immediately turns herself into a zerg but this time shes even more of a zerg than before. completely undoing all of raynors work. >protoss basically had no story except gather all the other protoss cut content so we can defeat gigahomie9000
God, I remember when the end cinematic was revealed for HOTS. People were saying it was fake because it looked so bad. That it was fake because the story was that moronic.
Have the universe team up to kill Kerrigan and make a pit stop to kill mengsk when he backstabs everyone again. They killed the franchise the second they invented amon. It might work in a different setting but goddamn, it was worse than fricking highlander 2 in terms of continuity
>They killed the franchise the second they invented amon.
You do realize that the "dark entity who wants to make hybrids" was baked into the story since brood war, right?
Ah yes they clearly intended for the xel Naga to be literal deities and for Kerrigan to ascend to ssj4godssj to kill the actual devil in that one secret mission. Clearly there was no other way to take the story.
>Ah yes they clearly intended for the xel Naga to be literal deities
Literally yes, read the Protoss lore. >and for Kerrigan to ascend to ssj4godssj to kill the actual devil in that one secret mission. Clearly there was no other way to take the story.
I never said that.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I've read the protoss lore. It's ancient history to them and doesn't need to be canon or literal. The xel Naga could've just been slightly more advanced aliens who could create life and liked to frick around. Not... what we got. Kerrigan was always infinitely better as a villain than some badly thought out galactic mastermind. Never really fell in line with the rest of the continuity?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Protoss was the hardest difficulty. Did you beat the game?
2 years ago
Anonymous
All of the campaigns several times. I still have my original manual with the zerg brood populations in the 10s of millions (lmao).
>Yeah but it could have been just Durand,
Nope
>At this time, a mysterious voice contacted Zeratul. The voice announced itself as Samir Duran, but said it had taken on many names "throughout the millennia" and Samir Duran was only how Zeratul would know it. It denied Kerrigan having any hand in the experiments here, and Zeratul questioned what Duran was if not her pawn. Duran said he was a servant of "a far greater power" that had slept for "countless ages" and was reflected in the hybrid.
https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Origin
They could've just ignored it and made Kerrigan the badguy. Or done literally anything else? I was kinda hyped to play as xel Naga but holy goddamn I was not expecting forty mile space elephants
2 years ago
Anonymous
Zerg are fun, but I know exactly how they work. All I need is 4 zealots lvl2 weapons, and a recharger
2 years ago
Anonymous
>4 more zealots just warped in
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Kerrigan was always infinitely better as a villain than some badly thought out galactic mastermind. Never really fell in line with the rest of the continuity?
I can agree to that. StarCraft felt like a real space opera.
Yeah but it could have been just Durand, unless im remembering wrong the N64 mission. The Xel Naga were more interesting when they were just in the background.
>At this time, a mysterious voice contacted Zeratul. The voice announced itself as Samir Duran, but said it had taken on many names "throughout the millennia" and Samir Duran was only how Zeratul would know it. It denied Kerrigan having any hand in the experiments here, and Zeratul questioned what Duran was if not her pawn. Duran said he was a servant of "a far greater power" that had slept for "countless ages" and was reflected in the hybrid.
https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Origin
2 years ago
Anonymous
Fair enough, there is still a lot you can do with that description that doesn't involve the xel naga.
>IMMA KILL YOU ONE DAY KERRIGAN >Lol just kidding, i love you despite only have 3 lines of dialogue with you in Broodwar >also lel whos Fenix? >Tassadar is now space jesus and his sacrifice was for nothing >Zerg are feral and dindu nuffin, they were corrupted. you know, just like how orcs were corrupted in Warcraft because Metzen can only write 1 story >DBZ SUPER POWERS >Yes male xelnagas look like slugs, but kerrigan keeps her hair, boobs and gets anime wings >Frick Tychus. Hoes b4 bros. >Zeratul is now a homosexual
>kerrigan gets corrupted >murders everyone >is proud of it, doesnt give a frick >sequel makes her a good girl who dindu nuttin
>arthas gets corrupted >murders everyone >doesnt care about it, mentions his soul is stolen so he feels no remorse >WOW makes him a good boy who held the scourge back
This, but zoomers will complain about the micro management. Being able to mass your entire army into a huge ball with ease and roam it across the map is moronic and contradictory to good RTS gameplay
It's realistic. Do you think if a commander orders alll units to attack a building that they will split off into groups of 12 and mill around aimlessly if not directed? That was basically Brood War's moronic pathfinding. And don't even get me started on the dragoons.
It's just muh apm dickheads, you don't see any of this b***hing in other rts's about a-clicking with all your units
Hell in older command and conquers you didn't even have a supply cap so nothing was stopping you from making enough units to freeze the game the second they opened fire
I would take the money and give it to the devs of Factorio, the actual future of top-down RTS. It has like, actual factories instead of a dumb box that churns out units with no visible supply chains.
World of Starcraft with playable Terran, Protoss and infested humanoid zerg race fighting against bad zerg and UED invaders. Gameplay would be hybrid of mmo skills and tps shooter.
pla we dont need erp trannies here
mmos are franchise killers
even if sc is dead they will dig up the corpse and rape right after they put cat ears on it
What the frick happened with sc II anyway?
WoL was great
HotS was okay
LotW was meh to bad
The core gameplay held strong all the way through, but the plot, campaign mechanics and mission variety were consistently going down with every new campaign.
was a mary sue in brood war
Nah, you constantly beat her when playing as the other races. She only survives through backstabbing, hardly a mary sue trait.
she wasn't a mary sue because 1. she betrayed raynor and felt bad about it and 2. she's hated by pretty much everyone except the zerg. meanwhile in sc2 she's forgiven for everything with no reason whatsoever
Back when they were being released, someone leaked an ending where Kerrigan kills wotsisname. They had to go and alter it a bunch on release.
Chris Metzen was the right kind of edgy with 1 and Brood war. When he got married, fat and happy, Kerrigan became a Mary-Sue.
Haha anon, I remember that. They didn't change a damn thing. All they did was make it so that, instead of Mengsk getting thrown out a window, he now explodes from Kerrigan injecting him with psionic purple glowey energy.
>HotS was okay
HOTS killed the game.
More specifically, HOTS Swarm Hosts killed the game. No matter what LotV could do to fix the multiplayer the damage was done.
Starcraft lives off its ladder and UMS, both of which Blizzard fricked up hilariously.
Before expansion packs were a cheap way to get more money. You already did all the hard work of creating the game, the expansion pack could then reuse all the assets you made, add in some stuff that was left on the cutting room floor, and fix some balance issues. Thats what brood war did, that is what frozen throne did.
But blizzard decided that for SC2 they would make 2 expansions that would be far bigger. And that just doesnt work
It wouldve been better if they just made a standard expansion and then worked on SC3.
>cheap way to get more money
They were valued at 50% the price of the original game and most of the added so much content it was worth it. Gotta respect that.
but at the same time it is less than 50% development cost for the devs. Not having to make an engine, make a bunch of assets from scratch, make a bunch of coding and trigger work from scratch, all of that saves a lot of money. So the margin on it is bigger and better for them. Thats why any remotely successful game had an expansion, not just RTS, but also stuff like quake or halflife.
At the same time it really completed the package. So I dont mind them being a bit greedy here. Its a lot better than what we have nowadays. DLC is just a few missions, a map pack or horse armor.
WoL was absolute dogshit in the plot department compared to Starcraft and Broodwar. Reeks of nu-Blizzard. Of course fricking tasteless nerds swallowed it right up. Didn't even try HotS because of that.
>Of course fricking tasteless nerds swallowed it right up.
I remember after release quite some negative comments on it >kerrigan being a good girl trapped inside an evil shell, which broodwar made sure to shut down >no mention of the UED >overmind being a good guy all along
But between muh esports and people happy to get a new blizzard game it didnt really get too much traction.
The stuff you're complaining about is touched on in HotS where the story all goes to shit
You see stukov again who explains how badly the ued got fricked, you don't see she dindu nuffin' until HotS, you don't get the full meat and potatoes for zergs were tragic heroes all along till HotS
WoL on its own was self contained and great
2 years ago
Anonymous
If you're talking about wc3 then the best army introduced was the undead and the demons. They fricked up death knights
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you don't see she dindu nuffin' until HotS
she literally calls out to jim for help during the final fight. Like shes trapped inside of her body. While BW was pretty clear there was no old kerrigan left. (In SC1 there was an inkling she might still have some humanity left because she lets jimmy go after she hatches from the egg, but after BW true colors its clear that shes not good in any way or form)
Zeratul approaches jim and says that the overmind wasnt an evil creature, but actually tried to do his best to save the galaxy.
Here:https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Overmind#Zeratul's_Visit >"I have come to tell you of this creature's... courage."
2 years ago
Anonymous
You don't know how fast I can download zealots
2 years ago
Anonymous
In the final fight you're charging a magic maguffin that's fully dezerg'ing her not just breaking the overminds connection because Jimmy wants his toxic ex gf back, it's perfectly hand waveable here but then goes full moron in HotS
I coulda sworn the shit with overmind was in HotS when they were doing shit at the primal zerg planet but looks like I remembered wrong
2 years ago
Anonymous
>In the final fight you're charging a magic maguffin that's fully dezerg'ing her not just breaking the overminds connection because Jimmy wants his toxic ex gf back, it's perfectly hand waveable here but then goes full moron in HotS
To me it seemed pretty clear from BW that it wasnt her zerg self being evil. It was kerrigan. Human or not. Kerrigan always was a dangerous character, and now she has been betrayed once again, and this time she decides she wants to be in charge
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah. Which makes for a compelling villain... not saying frick that let's give her a redemption arc while she's standing on Fenix's ashes
2 years ago
Anonymous
Kerrigan was never a compelling villain. She has no goals or motivations beyond just killing people because...? She was just a generic spec ops killer with psychic powers who got eaten by the overmind and then went berserk once its control disappeared. She reminds me of Tim Roth's character in that Hulk movie where he's given the hulk boost and he just wants more and more until he goes full-Abomination then starts blowing up the city just for the fun of it. That's about the same depth of villainy as Kerrigan ever had. At least Tim had the decency to enjoy it.
Kerrigan's response to Jim de-zergifying her should be to kill him and then go on pretty much the same quest she ends up going on in-game except with the purpose of regaining her power for her own lust for it rather than to help people for no reason.
If that had been her response, the plot might've been salvageable. Then it wouldn't be the entire setting warping itself to fit Jim's delusions, but just Jim himself being a lunatic moron who then suffers the consequences for it as he should.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>become primal queen of blades >looks exactly like old corrupted queen of blades
They could have gone with something different. It WAS lazy
Not the anon, but Kerrigan only killed people out of necessity. >helps bring down the Confederacy, which is NOT! nuking their own planets >she lets Jim go in Char >kills the protoss because they are attacking her on Char first >works with Zeratul to destroy the new Overmind so she doesn't get controlled >kills the protoss from Aiur beucase it's getting messy >kills the UED because they are creating their own Overmind to rule the sector >destroy the toss and terran in Korhal because she knows it's a matter of time before they come after her again. >kill them when they DO come after her >still lets Jimmy walk >still lets Mengsk walk
She was a cool vilain because she fought a defensive war and won by being a mean b***h. It's only in SC2 that she starts razing whole planets
Frick yeah, still wanted a Tosh commander for so long now.
>Tosh
God, I wish!
2 years ago
Anonymous
You forgot newscast early in WoL when Kerrigan finally starts doing shit again >"*static* BILLIONS DEAD *static*"
She's a mass murderer, but with an ass like that....
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It's only in SC2 that she starts razing whole planets'
how does that contradict his post?
2 years ago
Anonymous
She wasn't killing people out of necessity, maybe at the very start, but eventually she was just doing it cuz she could
2 years ago
Anonymous
She come to finish the job.
2 years ago
Anonymous
God I wish she'd finish me.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If she had a monstrous face like one of the hive queens I'd agree
2 years ago
Anonymous
>believing ~~*the news*~~ >in Wings of Liberty
Why?
2 years ago
Anonymous
trust DONNY VERMILLION
2 years ago
Anonymous
BROOD WARS >Kerrigan defeats all other factions combined >Mengsk expended his last political clout
SC2 >Mengsk is inexplicably still Emperor >Kerrigan has been evolving the zerg in secret for years >somehow Mengsk's army is strong enough to defeat the evolved version of the Zerg who defeated them, the UED, and the Protoss before
it makes 0 sense.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not sure why you are replying to me, but Kerrigan won the Brood War through guile, not brute force. She threw the protoss and Mengsk against the UED and then backstabbed them both.
Mengsk is still emperor because there is no one standing to dethrone him.
2 years ago
Anonymous
She was corrupted, and she was so bad ass that she took it over for herself for power.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You can still handwave that away as her being half zerg with no human dna left, regardless of overmind connection
The maguffin is built to dezerg things so the human side starts coming out
Or since everything is now amon mind controlling everyone retroactively removing all character agency in sc1/bw the device is breaking the link
I prefer option A because all the amon stuff in HotS and lotv was total garbage
You forgot to mention that the game takes place after the Broodwar Zerg campaign. You know, the one where Kerrigan has an army capable of washing over the entire galaxy. Always loved that. It ends with you sieging Char despite not crippling the Zerg in any way lol.
You mean the brood war campaign where on the last mission she barely wins against everyone's combined forces and everyone including her need to go lick their wounds afterwards?
Yeah, that also confused me. You just attack char and somehow win. Like, you just have the fleet of the dominion. Somehow they managed to rebuild faster than the zerg.
Before SC2 I figured SC2 would be about fighting an overwhelming zerg force with the remnants of the protoss and terran
I think playing the story exclusively as the good guys is the wrong idea. raynor was the most compelling because he had conflict in him on kerrigan and wanting revenge on mensk but overall choosing to be the hero
>boyfriend wastes countless lives just to get you into rehab so he can finally tap the ass of the girl he fell in love with again >don't see him for a few weeks and relapse 10x harder than before >lol sorry
No wonder terrans couldn't do shit after that, Jimmy is a broken man
I've finished replaying Brood War a couple weeks ago and finished replaying WoL on Monday. Here's what I think: >Mechanics
SC2 is great and needs nothing fixed here for a good game. I have a personal gripe of not being able to use rapid fire with grid hotkeys, but that's minor.
The game would benefit a lot if it had more starting workers. It amazed me so much much that it took to LotV to get to 12 workers.
The level design sucks ass, though. Most missions are too linear in design and too short. I would be excited about the prospect of ever maxing out given the mechanical improvements to the game, but for the majority of the missions across all campaigns you will be on two bases, hardly ever so on three, and most of them will be done in twenty minutes or so. Compare it to Brood Wars, where a lot of missions were longer and the maps were wide. You could pick which base you'd be attacking first and each enemy faction would have a different composition, so it was up to you to choose who you'd fight in any given mission. WoL did that with Engine of Destruction, but that was the exception, rather than the rule.
I also disliked that they kept the players on a leash, where the rhythms of progress were all too limited. In Brood War, the AI but as you did, so if you tried to win early on, the AI would be rather weak, but as the mission progressed, they'd have progressively more stuff and it seemed like their AI adapted to counter your composition. In SC2, in general, you have to be aggressive at precisely the points they tell you to. In "Welcome to the Jungle", for example, you have to go left, then right and then destroy the center base (maybe switch the last two), because these are the geysers the AI will go for without variation, so you will always play that mission at that rate. There is no free expo, like in BW, where you could decide if you wanted to go greedy. (cont.)
>The game would benefit a lot if it had more starting workers
No thank you. Adding more workers removes a lot of early game alternate routes of strategy and you essentially start in the middle of the game. There's a lot that can go in in the first few minutes with minimal resources and even when the boosted it the first time it killed a decent amount of beginning options.
I'm talking specifically about the campaign here. There's not much you can do in the early game. You don't have enough units to go and kill stuff. You don't have access to a free expo to focus on saving money to build another CC like you did in Brood War, so what you roughly do is make workers and maybe micro a marine around to collect the resources pick-ups for two minutes.
I also prefer more workers on the ladder because it speeds the game to the point where we are actually fighting with armies, which is what I like. I also find it more enjoyable to watch faster matches. But I understand what you mean.
[...]
Lol SC1's campaign sucks. Zero visual appeal (the maps are all just barren wastelands with nonsensical topography and conviently placed resources instead of "the future" "in space"), every mission is a piss-easy map sweep. At least it's not WC3 (ugliest game ever made)
"conveniently placed" stuff is just game design in general, anon. Why the hell would there be mineral patches in the main square of the terran capital of the entire sector? Because stuff needs to be there. And for 1999, it was truly great, both narratively and design-wise. Proof is that we are still talking about it two decades later.
That's not a plothole lol, mengsk is barely even in the equation besides wanting Kerrigan dead and he knows his rival Jimmy is one of the only people competent enough to get close to her so why waste any of his own forces.
You'll notice that in most of WoL you hardly fight terrans at all, you're doing his dirty work without realizing it and the only reason typhus goes along with it is because he's literally trapped with a bomb strapped to his chest.
He even has his sperg out moment in the canteen because he knows what's gonna happen if they go to charr and is depressed as all hell about it
Raynor didn't deserve him.
>Tal'darim is a villian
Nobody say Tal'darim is a villian, they just edgy like Alarak because of their savage culture as explained in LOTV. >Revolution during an alien apocalypse
Why do you think he accept Valerian offer instead of held him as hostage to smoke Mengsk out? His motto is always saving people lives. >Mengsk's plan was to get this guy who worked with Jimmy
Look at the trailer. >They say a man never really know himself until his freedom been taken away.
That explain why Tychus willingly accept Mengsk offer. >Send Warfield
Have you not even played the Char mission? Without Jimmy, Warfield would become hydralisk food. >Mobious Corp funded by Mengsk
Again Valarien own the mobious corp which he say himself.
Are we talking about the same game? Jimmy steals his mega mech and nuke Valhalla's facility, preventing further Odin production, then he takes said Odin to the capital world, explodes half the city and strikes a massive PR blow on him. Consider how much better the invasion on Char would have gone if Valerian didn't gift Battlecruisers to Jimmy and if Warfield had access to OdinS (PLURAL).
And there's nothing in the plot that really ties Jimmy as Mengsk's rival. Since Tychus knows where to find Jimmy, it's safe to assume that so does Mengsk. If he ever wanted Jimmy dead in those six years of alcoholism, all he needed to do was to get a ghost there and done.
It gets dumber when you realize that both Jim and Sarah have been quiet for the last six years. He didn't only kick a hornet's nest. He kicked a hornet's nest into another hornet's nest.
>Again Valarien own the mobious corp which he say himself.
But Tychus is still working for Arcturus. Junior lied?
>If he ever wanted Jimmy dead in those six years of alcoholism, all he needed to do was to get a ghost there and done.
They do address this in a conversation with Tosh. He says that assassinating Jimmy would just make him a martyr and cause even more people to turn against him. Makes sense, but at some point you'd think Mengsk would be like "eh screw it".
The same awful shit happened in missions like Engine of Destruction, Lock and Load, The Mobius Factor etc.
ALL the campaigns failed hard in giving the player base management control. Instead of having 4 or 5 bases and having to defend them all, you have enough resources clustered at a single base, you hardly ever need to expand and you can just bunker up your front door. It's no wonder I see so many people playing turtle when they go on the ladder. They have been trained to play defense all the time and be forever punished for greed. The map I just posted starts you with a free expo and you won't finish it on less than four bases.
Here's another with one free (but vulnerable) expo to the center and an easy one to the left. Meanwhile, in SC2, you could at most get a free bundle of resources if you moved out of the base.
The campaigns really benefited from giving the liberty of customizing your armies, but the non-linear way you get units is rather suckish and the way they structured the story non-linearly to give you some wiggle room in building your army composition ultimately backfried on the narrative side and design as well. In most missions, you just have to amass the unit the mission is introducing and call it a day. I'd rather they didn't give you any new units per mission, gave you more credits and you could buy the tech to buy the units you actually want. (cont.)
I've finished replaying Brood War a couple weeks ago and finished replaying WoL on Monday. Here's what I think: >Mechanics
SC2 is great and needs nothing fixed here for a good game. I have a personal gripe of not being able to use rapid fire with grid hotkeys, but that's minor.
The game would benefit a lot if it had more starting workers. It amazed me so much much that it took to LotV to get to 12 workers.
The level design sucks ass, though. Most missions are too linear in design and too short. I would be excited about the prospect of ever maxing out given the mechanical improvements to the game, but for the majority of the missions across all campaigns you will be on two bases, hardly ever so on three, and most of them will be done in twenty minutes or so. Compare it to Brood Wars, where a lot of missions were longer and the maps were wide. You could pick which base you'd be attacking first and each enemy faction would have a different composition, so it was up to you to choose who you'd fight in any given mission. WoL did that with Engine of Destruction, but that was the exception, rather than the rule.
I also disliked that they kept the players on a leash, where the rhythms of progress were all too limited. In Brood War, the AI but as you did, so if you tried to win early on, the AI would be rather weak, but as the mission progressed, they'd have progressively more stuff and it seemed like their AI adapted to counter your composition. In SC2, in general, you have to be aggressive at precisely the points they tell you to. In "Welcome to the Jungle", for example, you have to go left, then right and then destroy the center base (maybe switch the last two), because these are the geysers the AI will go for without variation, so you will always play that mission at that rate. There is no free expo, like in BW, where you could decide if you wanted to go greedy. (cont.)
Lol SC1's campaign sucks. Zero visual appeal (the maps are all just barren wastelands with nonsensical topography and conviently placed resources instead of "the future" "in space"), every mission is a piss-easy map sweep. At least it's not WC3 (ugliest game ever made)
Atmosphere-wise, they killed Starcraft. I don't play World of Warcraft, but I think the heroic of the game bled into Starcraft, if WoW is anything like what I imagine.
The UI in Brood War is darker, the soundtrack is somber and the effects are darker. The zerg cerebrate's voice creeped me out as a kid - the entirety of the zerg did. They made the UI shinier in the remaster and it was honestly a downgrade. The more heroic tone would bleed into the writing and narrative as well. Everything seems more like a propaganda piece, rather than grimdark sattire. And the thing is that Starcraft 2 needed to fill me with even more anxiety than 1 because of the writing - end of the world and all that. But now that everything is so badass and optimistic, I can't feel anxious. The only exception being "A Sinister Turn" and "The Mobius Factor".
It was funny watching space Australians die in SC because they were all awful stupid people. In SC2, they are still awful people, but now with a tone of heroism, which makes everything extremely absurd when you look back at things
Take Jimmy, for example. In Brood War, he was a horndog who was OK with zerg rushing two whole planets, but got angry at Mengsk for letting his date die and realizing that he, too, was expendable. Then risks everybody's lives by flying to Char, where he finds she is a monster now and walks away with the protoss, making new friends. Then he sides with her AND Mengsk to fight the UED and the new Overmind, only to be betrayed by her and swear revenge.
The guy let two planets slide but not his girlfriend or his best alien buddy. This is our hero for Wings of Liberty.
Then we have Kerrigan, who's a ruthless tactician who needs to be the heroine for the Zerg campaign, so she gets a pass in Heart of the Swarm because it was Amon all along, despite this ruining the entirety of Brood Wars in hindsight. HotS would also ruin WoL, but that's something that comes later.
(cont.)
The vilains in SC2 make less sense as well. Take the Tal'darim, for example. The soundtrack gets all evil when they show up, but in WoL, all they are doing is defending their own turf, their natural resources and relics. In "Welcome to the Jungle", you invade their planet to steal their gas so you can sell it for cash (you find out later it's for making specters). They rightfully shoot you on sight when you refuse to leave and insist on taking their shit and killing their people. And what for? To fuel a revolution during an alien apocalypse. Am I supposed to believe Jimmy is the good guy here?
The plot of Wings of Liberty is dumb as hell. We start with Mengsk monologuing for Tychus, who is going to Approach Jimmy to work for Mobius, Mengsk's research corporation that is actually being secretly controlled by Amon. By the end of the campaign, we find out that Tychus had a deal with Mengsk: he kills Kerrigan in exchange for his freedom.
So, if I got this straight, Mengsk's plan was to get this guy who worked with Jimmy, who hasn't been a problem for the last six years, instigate Jimmy to start working against him (Mengsk), starting a revolution while being funded by himself (via Mobius corp) in hopes that Jimmy would eventually go after Kerrigan using the funds provided via Mobius Corp to go to Char and kill her? Why even add Jimmy to that equation? Just send Warfield to Char and call it a day.
That's not a plothole lol, mengsk is barely even in the equation besides wanting Kerrigan dead and he knows his rival Jimmy is one of the only people competent enough to get close to her so why waste any of his own forces.
You'll notice that in most of WoL you hardly fight terrans at all, you're doing his dirty work without realizing it and the only reason typhus goes along with it is because he's literally trapped with a bomb strapped to his chest.
He even has his sperg out moment in the canteen because he knows what's gonna happen if they go to charr and is depressed as all hell about it
Raynor didn't deserve him.
The plot gets dumber by HotS. Turns out SC1 and WoL Kerrigan wasn't evil. She was being controlled by Amon, who was also in control of the zerg, which makes zero sense. If Amon controls the Overmind and the cerebrates AND Kerrigan, this means that the Overmind, under Amon's control, created Kerrigan to be out of his control, but under Amon's. Then, when the Overmind was destroyed, the cerebrates, under Amon's control created a new Overmind, also under Amon's control. Then Kerrigan, under Amon's control, reached out to the protoss so the new Overmind wouldn't control her, but both were already under Amon's control.
Then we have Samir Duran, who's lying to Kerrigan and later deserts her in her direst moment when he doesn't need her anymore. Both comment in-game about that.
We also find out that Amon is behind Mobius corp and the Tal'darim on the mission you get the ultras.
So, this means that in Smash and Grab, Amon, via Mobius Corp, send Raynor to get the protoss relic from Amon, via the Tal'darim, before Amon, via Kerrigan, could snatch it. This is dumb as hell. It's even dumber because of the reason Mobius corp needs the artifact.
Mobius needs to assemble the artifact so when it activates on Kerrigan, her psionic energy unleashed would resurrect Amon. So, Amon needs the relics, which he already has, and Kerrigan, who he already controls, to come back. Why is Jimmy on this again? None of the artifact missions make any sense when you realize that the briefers and the opponents are on the same side.
It's even more aggravating because the only threat to Amon's plan is Kerrigan. If he does all this work in a protected environment, he can simply kill Kerrigan afterwards, ensuring his victory. Jimmy is at best a waste and at worst a liability (which ends up being true).
The problem is that the whole plot is bending over backwards to accomodate Jimmy in a place he doesn't belong. Brood War had the balls to start the Terran Campaign with a whole new cast that fit the plot better and only added Jimmy later. I think the plot of SC2 would work much better if it worked in a similar way.
You start with a security contractor for Mobius, say Tychus, who figures out that Mobius is dealing with some messed up stuff and desert with a piece of the artifact or something and now they are coming after you. Now the Tal'darim have a reason to be in the story as vilains. You can even pick Jimmy, old buddy, old pal, later in the game. Then you go around the galaxy trying to figure out what this shit is, meeting Zeratul in the process and making some complicated aliances in the process with say, Kerrigan (not Amon's thrall here), or Stukov. SC2's plot was too straight forward for my taste.
HotS campaign should embrace Kerrigan as the backstabber she is and who knows who she's siding with and only by LotV we get the conclusion.
Mechanics-wise, HotS sucked ass with its discount WC3 design. I wanted to play the swarm, with massive amounts of zerg, instead, I'm stuck microing Kerrigan because it's much more cos-effective. I only got it when playing coop with Swarm Queen Zagara and Abathur. I liked the Spear of Adun buffs enough, though not as much as I liked what they did with WoL. The Master Archives was a good mechanical addition.
>Kerrigan wasn't evil. She was being controlled by Amon.
Wrong, Kerrigan say herself during Zerus mission. She was never in Amon control but an influence keep whispering to her. >Amon controls the Overmind
It similar to Warcraft 3 where Ner zhul turn into undead and become burning legion pet. The way Kerrigan become Zerg is the same as Ner Zhul turn Arthas into his undead Champion.
Hybrid = Nathrezim
Zerg = Undead
Overmind = Ner Zhul
Kerrigan = Arthas >Samir Duran, who's lying to Kerrigan and later deserts her in her direst moment
He been busy dealing with Zeratul that has been sniffing and found hybrid research lab if you played the secret mission in SC, that why Zeratul did not take part in final zerg mission where you fight Artanis, Mengsk and UED even though he tell Kerrigan that she will regret for letting him alive. >Smash and Grab, Amon, via Mobius Corp, send Raynor to get the protoss relic from Amon
Now this, if you played Zeratul mission in WOL you would know why Kerrigan want to grab the artifacts. That why she been laying low in past few year before event of SC2 until he met Zeratul, she been storing extra egg if you played HOTS Char mission where you fight Zagara. Plus she never knew Mobius belong to Amon faction, since she is not in hybrid club. >Only threat to Amon's plan is Kerrigan
Nobody knew that until Zeratul telling everyone plus she need to be dead for Amon to be revived. Amon knew about the prophecy but as long nobody know he would win which he talk about it in "In Utter Darkness" mission.
It wasn't even willingly, he had a bomb strapped to his chest
Tychus sacrifice himself to save Jimmy in the past what stopping him doing it again?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Wrong, Kerrigan say herself during Zerus mission. She was never in Amon control but an influence keep whispering to her.
She does say that, but her behavior changes drastically before and after.
WoL Kerrigan: "Fate cannot be changed. The end comes. And when it finds me, I shall embrace it at last." https://youtu.be/amU9J0mvhuM?t=226
She's either lying or someone at Blizzard didn't do their job properly. Also, >red eyes and evil laughter before >normal eyes and speech after
How to spot a character change visually
>Warcraft 3
It's quite the opposite. Arthas is thrall for Ner Zhul.
>He been busy dealing with Zeratul that has been sniffing and found hybrid research lab if you played the secret mission in SC
He didn't deal with Zeratul. He just monologued evilly. Might as well just leave any given researcher there to do so, if at all. I understand that Blizzard was hinting at the sequel, so I won't complain about "vilain monogues his plan", but he clearly didn't seem to care much for Kerrigan.
>Now this, if you played Zeratul mission in WOL you would know why Kerrigan want to grab the artifacts.
I don't recall the artifacts being mentioned in the Ihan crystals at all! I remember Zeratul seeing the end of the Universe where shit went down the drain because Kerrigan died and he tells her not to kill her. Kerrigan herself said she's embracing her death.
>That why she been laying low in past few year before event of SC2 until he met Zeratul, she been storing extra egg if you played HOTS Char mission where you fight Zagara. >be the only one with a sizeable force at the end of Brood War >spend six years storing baneling eggs >commence invasion before they hatch
Nice strategy, Kerrigan! Also, she would have still made it if Jimmy wasn't there. If she started artifact hunting six years ago, she would have no one to contest the artifact hunting. If Jimmy could do it, so could she.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>bow down fool
2 years ago
Anonymous
I definitely miss this style of protoss, they should have at least made more dark Templar faction units and dressed them like this since they clearly wanted goldshiny space heroes for main protoss.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm banned
2 years ago
Anonymous
That was metzen's take on the joining of the Templars
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah but all sc1 protoss art is a similar vibe
I dont object to the heroic protoss since they look cool as well, but would have liked half the forces to be that mystical style too
2 years ago
Anonymous
I rush with profess
2 years ago
Anonymous
>protoss
2 years ago
Anonymous
You only need once zealot to 5 marines, and zurg die to my turrets
>Tal'darim is a villian
Nobody say Tal'darim is a villian, they just edgy like Alarak because of their savage culture as explained in LOTV. >Revolution during an alien apocalypse
Why do you think he accept Valerian offer instead of held him as hostage to smoke Mengsk out? His motto is always saving people lives. >Mengsk's plan was to get this guy who worked with Jimmy
Look at the trailer. >They say a man never really know himself until his freedom been taken away.
That explain why Tychus willingly accept Mengsk offer. >Send Warfield
Have you not even played the Char mission? Without Jimmy, Warfield would become hydralisk food. >Mobious Corp funded by Mengsk
Again Valarien own the mobious corp which he say himself.
It wasn't even willingly, he had a bomb strapped to his chest
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Tal'darim is a villian
Nobody say Tal'darim is a villian, they just edgy like Alarak because of their savage culture as explained in LOTV. >Revolution during an alien apocalypse
Why do you think he accept Valerian offer instead of held him as hostage to smoke Mengsk out? His motto is always saving people lives. >Mengsk's plan was to get this guy who worked with Jimmy
Look at the trailer. >They say a man never really know himself until his freedom been taken away.
That explain why Tychus willingly accept Mengsk offer. >Send Warfield
Have you not even played the Char mission? Without Jimmy, Warfield would become hydralisk food. >Mobious Corp funded by Mengsk
Again Valarien own the mobious corp which he say himself.
>It wasn't even willingly, he had a bomb strapped to his chest
I understand that Tychus is being coerced. What I mean is that Tychus and Jimmy's relation is rather weak. Some coworker from a decade ago calls me to work on something. What if I just say no? Where's Mengsk's master plan now?
>nobody say Tal'darim is a villian, they just edgy
The game's tone did. The soundtrack turns all tense in the same way it does when Kerrigan shows up or when the night falls in the Outbreak mission.
>Why do you think he accept Valerian offer instead of held him as hostage to smoke Mengsk out? His motto is always saving people lives.
He starts his revolution out of drunken rage. He invades a planet and kills its inhabitants, all of which are innocent to his knowledge, to steal their resources to fund his revenge. Jim Raynor, friend of the protoss, doesn't even attempt a diplomatic solution. It's all "I'll be outta here soon, bye!"
Then he goes "Oh, no! The protoss are attack ME!? Guess I'm in the right to kill them, then." Rinse and repeat for the entire campaign.
Even the human lives he saves mean nothing. The Agria refugees are infected anyways and taking them to different planets just enhanced the problem. At the end of the day Jimmy either kills every person he saved, or he kills the protoss who come up to clean up after his mess, dooming a whole planet. So much for life saving.
The irony is that Mengsk made the right call by isolating the outer worlds until he had what he needed, Odins, to kill the zerg.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They ain't accountants homie, your boy who took the fall for you so you could escape from supermax ultrahell space jail is way beyond "co-worker" level.
All the Odin stuff was obviously not according to plan, but again *majority* of campaign you don't even glance at dominion forces cuz jimmy's busy advancing all the pieces together for mengsk to have his revenge on kerrigan without realizing it
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I understand that Tychus is being coerced. What I mean is that Tychus and Jimmy's relation is rather weak. Some coworker from a decade ago calls me to work on something. What if I just say no? Where's Mengsk's master plan now?
Jimmy owe Tychus for saving his ass. Tychus even say about it to make Jimmy feel guilty. >The game's tone did. The soundtrack turns all tense in the same way it does when Kerrigan shows up or when the night falls in the Outbreak mission.
That is literally just your feeling. They never invade anyone or rather just guarding their place. >He starts his revolution out of drunken rage.
He did not start his revolution out of drunken rage, he took 'you' during SC1 and Horner, bunch of volunteer that cut off from Mengsk after he genocide the planet with zerg. That how he manage to easily snatch Hyperion where you need at least 400 crews to operate it. He is drunk because he regret of not saving Kerrigan and letting her go alone, all these can be avoided he thought. Imagine if he did go with her, Kerrigan would not become Zerg. >He invades a planet and kills its inhabitants, all of which are innocent to his knowledge, to steal their resources to fund his revenge.
When did he even invade a planet and kill all inhabitants? He did attempt diplomatic solution but it was shot down because of protoss prejudice view against infected. >The Agria refugees are infected anyways and taking them to different planets just enhanced the problem.
Hanson manage to continued develop a cure for the virus. >The irony is that Mengsk made the right call by isolating the outer worlds until he had what he needed, Odins, to kill the zerg.
Odin wss never meant for mass production it was just a prototype for thor and it is expansive, by isolating the outer worlds Mengsk literally goes back against his words during BW declaration where he shall watch and protect you which confederacy fail to do.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I thought Horner was 'you' during SC1?
2 years ago
Anonymous
'You' was a magistrate while horner was a navy pilot.
2 years ago
Anonymous
"you" were 3 different characters, or up to 6, its not clear.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>tychus
Already acknowledged from another post, but good point. >That is literally just your feeling.
Yes, anon. I explained that the game tried to elicit the feeling from me by using audio cues previously presented during zerg attacks. I said earlier that Blizzard changed the feeling of the game from "everybody sucks lmao" to "we're the heroes saving the galaxy". No one ever comments on Jimmy going around and slaughtering innocent protoss for profit. Horner is supposed to be the conscience of the group, but he never says anything.
>revolution
Fair enough. But I would like to remind you that Jimmy was part of both genocides and only left when he realized he wasn't above being sacrificed for the "greater good" >Imagine if he did go with her, Kerrigan would not become Zerg.
They would have both died lmao. You played Starcraft 1? Nothing special on hero units, just a small buff.
>When did he even invade a planet and kill all inhabitants? He did attempt diplomatic solution but it was shot down because of protoss prejudice view against infected.
You're mixing planets. He killed protoss for profit on Bel'shir in the mission "Welcome to the Jungle". The colonists were killed in Haven, if you chose to do so. >Hanson manage to continued develop a cure for the virus.
I don't remember this being in the game. Is this canon? I remember her kissing Raynor in the cheek before he left. Even then, given the same timeframe, if you chose to kill the infested, she shows up as infested as well. So if Blizzard did write that, they messed up hard.
>Odin wss never meant for mass production it was just a prototype for thor and it is expansive
No. Swann builds a Thors as a knock-off. https://youtu.be/_4hI3uQ2GMM?t=176
There's literally no reason not to build more Odins when the facility was already there.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Jimmy steals his mega mech and nuke Valhalla's facility, preventing further Odin production
Swan reverse engineer it and produce Thor which is more cheaper and faster than Odin and it was recovered by dominion and used against zerg during HOTS last mission. >Invasion on Char would have gone if Valerian didn't gift Battlecruisers to Jimmy and if Warfield had access to OdinS (PLURAL).
When did Valerian gift BC to Jimmy? He was there as insurance and advisor incase Dominion frick up. Dominion troops are not under Jimmy commands until Warfield wounded at the battlefield. >Nothing in the plot that really ties Jimmy as Mengsk's rival. Since Tychus knows where to find Jimmy, it's safe to assume that so does Mengsk.
Have you seen the poster in the bar? Jimmy is the face of revolution. Jimmy already say that to Tychus during bar chat if Mengsk want to kill him with ghost, Jimmy would become martyr and fuel the revolution to more extreme. Mengsk first need to tarnish his reputation but of course Tychus advice Jimmy that even Mengsk has a limit. >Jim and Sarah have been quiet for the last six years.
Dominion were building up troops they lost in Char and assert it control in terran space.
Jimmy were gathering volunteer where colonies were abused by dominion which is where he meet swan after saying goodbye to the protoss.
Kerrigan saw the vision of overmind and decided to investigate just like Zeratul did when he see Overmind memory.
Protoss was forming Daelaam which reject Conclave teaching and bestow Artanis as Hierarch. >But Tychus is still working for Arcturus. Junior lied?
Tychus did explain himself that he met some egghead that pay him good money if he steal the artifacts when he got out from jail. So the artifact is a side mission while killing Kerrigan is his main objective. That why he got pussy out when there only two artifact left to steal and suggest Jimmy take the money and run because he did not want to betray Jimmy while want to enjoy more freedom.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Jimmy didn't deserve Tychus, name a bigger bro in all of videogames
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Jim and Sarah
Could have killed Jim at the beginning of the rebellion instead of going for propaganda.
Kerrigan wasn't a problem and might not even be one. She let him live, so why go after her? It's a liability. >Tychus
I'm not talking about his point of view, I'm talking about both Mengsks and why the hell they would be working with Jimmy.
Idk but id look to create a styled perhaps cellshaded art style for the units that resembles the dirtiness/simplicity of the first game while still having 3d models. Get Matt Eulman back for the soundtrack.
Get rid of stupid shit like protoss balance is based off micro and instead make protoss units stronger and cost more but require proper unit composotion and positioning to work properly.
Zerg should not be given anything that produces units for free. Uprooting defensive buildings costs supply or just remove mobility on zerg defenses.
Im not a good designer but I think they should really look at Starcraft 1's design, the caster units and try to figure out how to create games that dont devolve into A move death balls.
Zerg game play should be based on overwhelming with tech switchs and cool battlefield control options through casters and creep.
Protoss should have devasting spells and tech that are hard to use as well as miscelanous stuff like Arbiters or Dark Archons. Units are expensive but poweful and god like under proper micro. Only race where their bio units get stronger the more they fight and get damaged. Every protoss bio unit should be a hero unit in gaining xp and leveling up rewarding players for strong micro. They should play like a spear tip or arrow like if protoss attacks you and they gain ground you are completely fricked but if they fail they kinda just fall apart or retreat easily. Protoss should have the best options to retreat or speed up their units because of how expensive they are.
Terran should have expendable strong units for shock and awe tactics and raids as well as strong as frick defense. They should be like a slow grinder renforcing and siege positions
>art direction
I agree. >balance
I don't understand. The suggestion for your complaint that protoss is too micro-heavy is to make it MORE micro-heavy?
>Protoss should have the best options to retreat or speed up their units because of how expensive they are. >force fields >stasis wards >recall
>Terran should have expendable strong units for shock and awe tactics and raids as well as strong as frick defense. They should be like a slow grinder renforcing and siege positions
Frick, no! I say this both for playing as and against terran. Turtle mech was cancer and I hope it never makes a comeback.
>HotS was okay
HOTS killed the game.
More specifically, HOTS Swarm Hosts killed the game. No matter what LotV could do to fix the multiplayer the damage was done.
Starcraft lives off its ladder and UMS, both of which Blizzard fricked up hilariously.
>Starcraft lives off its ladder
Nope. Co-op. https://youtu.be/XehNK7UpZsc?t=117
>bow down fool
SOVL
I dont even remember if mengsk knew about the artifacts tbh, I only remember his son saying everything was done of his own initiative.
Also Valerian literally explains his motives to you, and mengsk doesn't care because he wants Kerrigan dead above all else.
[...]
Tbh it doesn't sound very fun to watch, even the only parts about competitive starcraft I like watching are those little 30 second clips of someone getting outplayed or fricking up bad, not the whole match
I'll just stick with turtling against AI for fun kek
His motives make even less sense. >"How do I prove I am better than my father?" >"I know I will risk trillions of lives by refusing to ask for the Emperor's help on this imperial matter!"
How emotionally old IS he?
And he'd have to be lying. No way Tychus just happens to be his dad's Manchurian candidate by coincidence.
Tell you what. Why don't you explain to me Valerian's plan and then Arcturus's plan. And see if they had no better alternatives? Arcturus is a smart guy enough to figure out that the Confederacy was behind the zerg attacks and Valerian is smart enough to figure the importance of the artifacts out. These are not stupid people.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The next major RTS won't fail if it's a good game. That's the issue. Developers keep making shit games then blaming the audience for not wanting to play it.
Attempting to criticize the whole Tychus situation in WoL doesn't make sense because you aren't given enough information to determine if it's a plothole or not
There's several games being played by amon/narud, mobieus, valarian and mengsk you don't really know what each party knows about the situation
>SC2 is great and needs nothing fixed here for a good game
Competitive side needs some cleaning because of the "high apm=much gooder better+1" idea which leads to a lot of busy work.
The same awful shit happened in missions like Engine of Destruction, Lock and Load, The Mobius Factor etc.
ALL the campaigns failed hard in giving the player base management control. Instead of having 4 or 5 bases and having to defend them all, you have enough resources clustered at a single base, you hardly ever need to expand and you can just bunker up your front door. It's no wonder I see so many people playing turtle when they go on the ladder. They have been trained to play defense all the time and be forever punished for greed. The map I just posted starts you with a free expo and you won't finish it on less than four bases.
Here's another with one free (but vulnerable) expo to the center and an easy one to the left. Meanwhile, in SC2, you could at most get a free bundle of resources if you moved out of the base.
The campaigns really benefited from giving the liberty of customizing your armies, but the non-linear way you get units is rather suckish and the way they structured the story non-linearly to give you some wiggle room in building your army composition ultimately backfried on the narrative side and design as well. In most missions, you just have to amass the unit the mission is introducing and call it a day. I'd rather they didn't give you any new units per mission, gave you more credits and you could buy the tech to buy the units you actually want. (cont.)
SC2 campaign as balanced around blatantly overpowered unit upgrades.
Which was a shame because I love base building but it only ever gives you so much space for it.
The LotV coop could have been a lot better if the missions weren't so structured as well. No real room for style or risk you just rush resources and deathball.
>he game would benefit a lot if it had more starting workers
Maybe that's controversial but I think this is a bad idea. I actually like the build up phase in RTS games, I don't like how fast it is in SC2 with both that as well as the resources depleting more quickly. I get why they made it like that but I think it's annoying.
I agree with the level design part though, while the campaign in WoL is actually generally pretty fun it does lack some classic "build up an army and go kill the enemy base" kind of missions, they are always based around some gimmick. Like they thought classic RTS level design wasn't good enough or something. One thing SC2's campaign does better than BW is having a difficulty setting, as BW is just way too easy as it is.
Overall though I think my problem with SC2 is that I just don't like the units and how the game feels compared to BW. It genuinely feels soulless.
There is a lot of decisions with regards to build orders, scouting, rushes, etc in BW. Also I like to design my base layout and make it look aesthetic, don't judge me.
A lot of the gimmicks were really fun at least on the first playthrough
I can't think of any missions in WoL where I wasn't having fun because they kept it fresh every time
I can think of a bunch of sc1 and brood war missions where they felt pretty samey and "not this shit again..." so for me it was an all around improvement
Different strokes, I guess. The only SC1 missions I don't like are the instalation ones, and I guess the tutorial "build 8 mehrines lmao" missions but those don't count.
I thought Horner was 'you' during SC1?
That's a theory but I don't think it was ever confirmed, iirc the only SC1 "commander" that had their fate confirmed was the Cerebrate, which was killed by Kerrigan as she "no longer needed it" (which is funny considering how stupid her strategy is in 2; if you think about it all of her success in SC1 really was because of that 400 IQ literal giant brain doing the hard work for her).
I despised how game speed was tied to difficulty.
I tried to cheese some achievements on lower difficulties and it was so irritating to watch the game drag out for ages.
I only have fun playing SC2 on Brootal myself. Meanwhile in SC1 I just like to frick around. Why yes I will mind control a drone and and build up through the entire Zerg tech tree. Why? Because I can. It's a very comfy game, same as Warcraft 2 and 3.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well I mean you're talking repeat playthroughs right, I only fully played through the game once so I had a great time.
I'm sure some of the level gimmicks become annoying if you do repeat playthroughs because that's always the case with that kind of design
But it was fun the first time anyway
I like the gimmicks, but I'd like to have them ON TOP of the base Brood Wars design instead replacing it. I can finally produce from multiple buildings from a single selection and there isn't a mission that needs to last long enough for that to happen. It only happens to me on Brutal in defensive missions because I can't rush them or it gets too hard to do it.
As for the lower worker count, it's OK during the first playthrough, but then it just becomes tiresome. Also, tiresome for ladder games.
They ain't accountants homie, your boy who took the fall for you so you could escape from supermax ultrahell space jail is way beyond "co-worker" level.
All the Odin stuff was obviously not according to plan, but again *majority* of campaign you don't even glance at dominion forces cuz jimmy's busy advancing all the pieces together for mengsk to have his revenge on kerrigan without realizing it
>They ain't accountants homie
Fair enough. I stand corrected. But you don't spend a lot of time going after the artifacts either, you have four missions going after them. And Mengsk could have easily sent his own troops after that. Instead of funding rebels via Mobius, he could have funded his own troops. >but it was Valerian's money
Makes even less sense. Why would the prince fund public enemy #1 under his dad's nose instead of just telling dad about the artifacts and let the big guns do it? The plot keeps bending over to fit Jim.
>Jimmy steals his mega mech and nuke Valhalla's facility, preventing further Odin production
Swan reverse engineer it and produce Thor which is more cheaper and faster than Odin and it was recovered by dominion and used against zerg during HOTS last mission. >Invasion on Char would have gone if Valerian didn't gift Battlecruisers to Jimmy and if Warfield had access to OdinS (PLURAL).
When did Valerian gift BC to Jimmy? He was there as insurance and advisor incase Dominion frick up. Dominion troops are not under Jimmy commands until Warfield wounded at the battlefield. >Nothing in the plot that really ties Jimmy as Mengsk's rival. Since Tychus knows where to find Jimmy, it's safe to assume that so does Mengsk.
Have you seen the poster in the bar? Jimmy is the face of revolution. Jimmy already say that to Tychus during bar chat if Mengsk want to kill him with ghost, Jimmy would become martyr and fuel the revolution to more extreme. Mengsk first need to tarnish his reputation but of course Tychus advice Jimmy that even Mengsk has a limit. >Jim and Sarah have been quiet for the last six years.
Dominion were building up troops they lost in Char and assert it control in terran space.
Jimmy were gathering volunteer where colonies were abused by dominion which is where he meet swan after saying goodbye to the protoss.
Kerrigan saw the vision of overmind and decided to investigate just like Zeratul did when he see Overmind memory.
Protoss was forming Daelaam which reject Conclave teaching and bestow Artanis as Hierarch. >But Tychus is still working for Arcturus. Junior lied?
Tychus did explain himself that he met some egghead that pay him good money if he steal the artifacts when he got out from jail. So the artifact is a side mission while killing Kerrigan is his main objective. That why he got pussy out when there only two artifact left to steal and suggest Jimmy take the money and run because he did not want to betray Jimmy while want to enjoy more freedom.
>spend 6 years and quadrilions building factory for mega mech >enemy ruins the whole facility >it's ok because they are making a cheap knock-off >now my enemy has access to top-tier weaponry
Is this supposed to be good?
>When did Valerian gift BC to Jimmy?
?t=63 >Valerian: Fortunately, our new Minotaur class Battlecruisers should be able to survive the fields long enough to destroy the generators.
Also, Medivacs when Kerrigan goes after Mobius.
>martyr
Use a ghost to kill Raynor during zerg attack on Mars Sara. The end. Further proving that people have to unite under a banner to survive against a greater threat. Use a psy emitter again. He's done it before. TWICE! And he's gotten away with it, too!
I dont even remember if mengsk knew about the artifacts tbh, I only remember his son saying everything was done of his own initiative.
Also Valerian literally explains his motives to you, and mengsk doesn't care because he wants Kerrigan dead above all else.
Nope, it's kinda like high level Counter Strike. It's about who has better aim until everybody has perfect aim, then it's about strategy and positioning. Top tier AoE II players don't make mistakes in the early game so it's not about that anymore.
Tbh it doesn't sound very fun to watch, even the only parts about competitive starcraft I like watching are those little 30 second clips of someone getting outplayed or fricking up bad, not the whole match
I'll just stick with turtling against AI for fun kek
Winning in starcraft is better than crack. Sc2 has the highest skill ceiling in a game I've ever seen, and it's so fast paced that if you blink you die, so the adrenaline runs the entire fricking time. Zvz makes my dick hard
Go watch some T90 casts, i would also recommend "low elo legends", it's the extreme opposite. Games between 60 years old boomer that dont even know what the word "meta" means.
I dont understand how people play at the bronze level. Like I see replays and its just minutes of idling at a time? I get being slow but holy shit half the time they're fricking afk
2 years ago
Anonymous
Some people just play to relax, not to win, its the only way i can rationalize that. I remember an interview with a guy called "the wall" that he tried to win every single game by building walls around his enemy; when he was asked about his motives he answered "i want to win by doing this, if i win by any other means its not really fun".
Lol SC1's campaign sucks. Zero visual appeal (the maps are all just barren wastelands with nonsensical topography and conviently placed resources instead of "the future" "in space"), every mission is a piss-easy map sweep. At least it's not WC3 (ugliest game ever made)
>nonsensical topography and conviently placed resources in
SC2 minerals and gas are perfectly placed for maximum mining efficiency. Many levels in SC1 or BW have random fields of minerals and geysers that are too far from your CC
Just make Warcraft 4. Less units and buildings + hero system is just going to have far wider appeal to the average person. t. weekly play WC3 and BW to this day
SC2 is unironically perfectly fine. BW nostalgia morons think SC2 is bad because you don't spend 95% of the game fighting against the horrible UI and worst unit pathing of all time. RTS just isn't a popular genre anymore and it has nothing to do with the quality of the game.
And Age of Empires 2 is an inferior product to other RTS like Rise of Nations but people still play it. The thing is RTS are now just niche and they will survive if somehow they manage to build a small and strong community.
They are different breeds, you cant compare RTS between breeds tbh. I havent given it a lot of thought but its clear that Supreme Commander (Planetary Anhiilation etc), Red Alert (westwood games), Company of heroes, Ground Control (World in Conflict etc), Ageo of Empires (Rise of Nations, Empire earth) and finally SC (warcraft) cant be compared between them because they are all very different; even though we put them all under the RTS umbrella.
I'll just Japanese castles and only spawn samurai and fully leveled gun men your dead.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Watch some high level AoE 2, its as complex as SC or WC3
2 years ago
Anonymous
I made half of those wc3 vids. I rushed with night elves
2 years ago
Anonymous
Isn't high level AoE2 just whoever has better/closer starting resource spawns so whoever reaches castle age first wins because it's been so thoroughly optimized?
I'll just enjoy being a sitter that tuetled against Ai in campaigns building walls out of castles for fun
2 years ago
Anonymous
no
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nope, it's kinda like high level Counter Strike. It's about who has better aim until everybody has perfect aim, then it's about strategy and positioning. Top tier AoE II players don't make mistakes in the early game so it's not about that anymore.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Go back to plebbit. CS is for gays
2 years ago
Anonymous
I havent played CS since source, that doesnt mean im ignorant of it. I was just making a point on how games change once the players have perfected their use of game mechanics to the point its no longer a variable.
Nobody's made an RTS that isn't worse than 10-15 year old titles since SC2.
Nobody's made an RTS that tries to innovate in the genre since SupCom1.
The genre is dead, just like all genres that don't have massive normie appeal. Even the nerdy titles that have managed to survive, like 4X, have done so through normie-appeal, with e.g., the civilization series being vastly inferior now than it was 20 years ago. And you can run that 20 year old title on your 20 year old laptop, while the modern title makes your desktop somehow overheat through its cancerous engine.
Just remembered the name of the game and the dev's name.
Game: Beezlebox
Dev: Shodanon
(last I spoke with him was mid-2018, so that may have been hotwheels-chan)
https://shodanon.itch.io/beelzebox
Oh shit I know that guy lol (or at least I know one of the Perepeteia devs), we had a short chat last weekend. I'll let him know it's missed. I made that RTS while blizzard was getting cancelled, and I did factorio same deal, it's a good way to parasitically get traffic.
Dude, small world. Tell him to respond to the email I sent him. I need that itch scratched something fierce and "The Hell 2.0" can only be played so much.
Witch doctor is cool as frick, could d3 have been better? A thousand times yes
Was it soulless? Not by a long shot, the art team knew what they wanted and knocked the feeling of exploding a goatmans head or melting him with poison out of the park
It's absolutely soulless artstyle-wise compared to D1 and D2. Everyone was clamoring for it to be less colorful because it just looks like a WoW ARPG instead of a Diablo ARPG.
>Duran is actually the bad guy, he's not some lackey working for a giant space squid >hybrid units are strong, but what really needs to set them apart are really strong boss-like units that can tank an entire squad of 200+ supply of units, to cement how dangerous they are >Kerrigan is angry because hybrids can resist infestation, and affect her psionic control over the swarms >she wants to kill them so she alone can rule the universe >Jim wants to kill Kerrigan and doesn't cuck out like a drunkard >joins up with some competent UED remnants and Confederate loyalists >they join up with Artanis and the Golden Armada >terran+ protoss team up like buddies to kill the zerg and the hybrid >last mission of the game ends in a 3 way all out war, with Kerrigan and Duran vying for control of a Xelnaga artifact, Ter+protoss get it first and activate it, killing both Duran and severely wounding Kerrigan >Jim walks up to her fatally wounded corpse >pulls out his gun >"this one's for Fenix" >BLAM >roll credits
Gameplay-wise:
>no more a+move deathblobs, limit unit counts. Allow the player to control an unlimited amount of any one unit, but you can't control them all simultaneously. For example, you can control 50 tanks, but you can't control a tank and a marine at the same time unless it's under 12 units or something. Something to force the player to strategize, instead of encouraging a+move blobs. The idea probably wouldn't work out, and would likely result in blob combat anyway, so it's still something that needs working on >more environmental interactions, IE gates that can be closed and opened, hills that can be destroyed, rivers that can be clogged and drained to make stable ground >possible introduction of naval units >add the hybrids as a fourth race
You know, the more I think about it, the more I just want the game to be like Supreme Commander.
Imagine talking about the plot of SC2 as if SC2 and SC1 even take place in the same universe. Jimmy doesn't go from wanting to kill Kerrigan more than he's wanted anything in his life to wanting to do the exact opposite. It's literally a different setting with a similar-looking coat of paint.
>Jimmy doesn't go from wanting to kill Kerrigan more than he's wanted anything in his life to wanting to do the exact opposite
People do shit like that all the time
Of all the gripes I've seen over SC2 the one I never understood is why people get so hung up over Jimmy's death threat.
It's very unclear how much of Kerrigan is still her and what's just the new monster-her. What is clear is that the transformation did some wild shit to her brain and now murder is basically a priority.
Jim's been on a bender for half a decade and was (presumably) beaten down into a hole by Mengsk. After a while like some fantasies about getting your girlfriend back by magically turning her human again might come up now and again.
And then his old pal Zeratul shows up with a funny crystal and tells him that not only can he turn her human again but if he doesn't the universe is going to be wiped out.
Shitty writing aside, that's a pretty solid reason to stop wanting to kill someone.
You don't need any reason beyond >sure my ex killed zillions of people >but DAMN those breasts
He let 2 whole planets die without caring but the moment his gf was in danger it was game on
She's that toxic ex you just can't get over, you swear you'll kill her to her face and 30 seconds later you're making out in the shower
>being drunk for a while is a pretty good reason to want to marry the person who killed all your friends and destroyed the world
the worst part with idiots like (You) is you're so self-evidently moronic that it isn't possible to find the energy to even disagree, it's so moronic.
you literally have to have the mentality of a woman who doesn't care about anything other than sucking whatever dick is the biggest one in the room to let something this stupid fly
y'know, maybe that's why everything turns to shit when companies go woke. they hire so many women that everybody stops caring about anything other than gurgling wiener. and then you get modern blizzard..
shit I may have just cracked the code right here
>he doesn't understand the power Dat ass has on an emotionally compromised man
lol
lmao
Once again, she's that toxic ex gf and sure she killed zillions of people and you even screamed at her face you'd kill her, but 30 seconds later you're both making out in the shower
I just have a hard time seeing the Queen of Blades as "Sarah Kerrigan"
Blizzard, or just Metzan, corruption usually erases every trace of the person if not just their free will or control.
>turning the whole argument on it's heel to talk about how much you hate women
Bro
Your misogyny will not earn you any reddit karma here
Idk but id look to create a styled perhaps cellshaded art style for the units that resembles the dirtiness/simplicity of the first game while still having 3d models. Get Matt Eulman back for the soundtrack.
Get rid of stupid shit like protoss balance is based off micro and instead make protoss units stronger and cost more but require proper unit composotion and positioning to work properly.
Zerg should not be given anything that produces units for free. Uprooting defensive buildings costs supply or just remove mobility on zerg defenses.
Im not a good designer but I think they should really look at Starcraft 1's design, the caster units and try to figure out how to create games that dont devolve into A move death balls.
Zerg game play should be based on overwhelming with tech switchs and cool battlefield control options through casters and creep.
Protoss should have devasting spells and tech that are hard to use as well as miscelanous stuff like Arbiters or Dark Archons. Units are expensive but poweful and god like under proper micro. Only race where their bio units get stronger the more they fight and get damaged. Every protoss bio unit should be a hero unit in gaining xp and leveling up rewarding players for strong micro. They should play like a spear tip or arrow like if protoss attacks you and they gain ground you are completely fricked but if they fail they kinda just fall apart or retreat easily. Protoss should have the best options to retreat or speed up their units because of how expensive they are.
Terran should have expendable strong units for shock and awe tactics and raids as well as strong as frick defense. They should be like a slow grinder renforcing and siege positions
Ive been watching videos of the SC2 alpha and its surprising how voluntary it was to depart from the SC1 art style and color pallette. The original vision of SC2 was way closer to its predecessor.
Things they changed from SC1 and was objectively a mistake
1) They killed the player character, in the first game the player was an actual "commander" that got to experience the world of SC. In the sequel you are just an omnipresent entity that follows raynor and friends. Frick that.
2) The art style, SC1 had a sort of post apocalyptic/old west feeling to it, it was very popular back then (same feeling as Full Throttle or Fallout 1).
Its not arbitrary at all, i just don't care discussing about it since other people ITT are more qualified than me to talk about it. I can comment on the campaign since that's what i played the most.
Yeah dude I loved not building an army because upkeep would rape me while I go race to fight npcs to see who can get the better items first. Fricking heroes are so gay and I'm glad they died at wc3
>not building an army because upkeep
Then the other player pushes and destroys you because he did break upkeep and did actually built an army. Sounds like you don't like the game because you are bad at it.
>SC1 ends with Kerrigan finishing off all her enemies and Artanis swearing he'll get revenge on her for killing a bunch of Protoss dudes >SC2 ends with Artanis literally kneeling before MarySueigan who has become a literal God to save the universe
Fricking lol
Ah yes they clearly intended for the xel Naga to be literal deities and for Kerrigan to ascend to ssj4godssj to kill the actual devil in that one secret mission. Clearly there was no other way to take the story.
We don't talk about HotS or LotV or anything blizzard made after 2008
It never happened
When did Kerrigan stop winning?
When she had to ascend the frozen throne of course
>thank god we freed Kerrigan from the zerg now we can end them once and for all >there must always be a zerg king...........
It's so fricking moronic at every level
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nah that was simply human hubris >test subjects??? Frick yes!
2 years ago
Anonymous
I mean that too but also
Oh God my man was kidnapped I better turn back into a zerg so I can go kill another hundred million people even though he ostensibly died to free me from the zerg
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, jumped the shark, that was the turning point in the campaign for me
I understand she thinks her mans is dead and wants revenge, but come the frick on way to spit on his grave.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It was like three missions in too goddamn.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They managed to top that with lotv killing off zeratul by the first mission too
If I wanted to fight npcs so my death knight can get a town portal scroll for 20 minutes I'd just play the fricking campaign lmao
>not building an army because upkeep
Then the other player pushes and destroys you because he did break upkeep and did actually built an army. Sounds like you don't like the game because you are bad at it.
To be fair I don't know how high level wc3 is played these days I'm just shitposting because the entire concept of creeping is the most anti rts thing I've ever heard of.
I used to think the same as you until I actually decided to get good at WC3 and found out it's fricking brilliant. The point of creep camps is that they are meant to be something the players fight over, not so you can ignore each other and play pve. Instead of passively creeping you can harrass your enemy, steal creeps from the enemy's side of the map so they can't level their second hero, even go invisible and steal an item from right under their noses. You can genuinely tell a player is good just from how he approaches creeping. There's actually a lot of strategic depth to it.
I agree, but SC had its niche of being a macro-game as opposed to a micro-game as in WCIII.
Obviously, some people liked the macro style more, as it crushed the numbers of WCIII for most of its lifetime.
Different strokes for different Korean folks.
Focus on improving ground textures, then a bump to animations (have to keep god tier animation for later at $5)
Units with different kind of attacks, armor gets messy
Every 5 kills a unit receives a minor upgrade
rollback netcode? only to cover 2 actions per second
Pros (it´s blizzard´s fault) fricked the game...just look at some tournaments, the sim cities are awful
>Not only leaving Korea, but moving to fricking CANADA
oh no...he listened to his wife, as far as i know the canadian players, except gypsy, are from the based part of Canada
I would make a Total War like campaign system where I can basically play as any faction with differen goals but also play the RTS on the field.
Make saving Kerrigan a convenient asset in defeating Amon but with severe diplomatic penalty or some kind of political setback.
Make the UED a playable again.
Make Amon's forces playable.
Capitalize on the redneck cyberpunk feeling it had before instead of hilly billy garbage love story.
>They killed the franchise the second they invented amon.
You do realize that the "dark entity who wants to make hybrids" was baked into the story since brood war, right?
Just make the Xel Naga regular ass aliens, goddamn. Or just fricking ignore it because every time I think about angel Kerrigan having a beam struggle with the devil my eyes bleed
Death knights should be the opposite of paladins. I don't understand why the alliance has them. Just like belfs. The alliance rejected the high elf archers.
>Jim and Sarah
Could have killed Jim at the beginning of the rebellion instead of going for propaganda.
Kerrigan wasn't a problem and might not even be one. She let him live, so why go after her? It's a liability. >Tychus
I'm not talking about his point of view, I'm talking about both Mengsks and why the hell they would be working with Jimmy.
[...] >art direction
I agree. >balance
I don't understand. The suggestion for your complaint that protoss is too micro-heavy is to make it MORE micro-heavy?
>Protoss should have the best options to retreat or speed up their units because of how expensive they are. >force fields >stasis wards >recall
>Terran should have expendable strong units for shock and awe tactics and raids as well as strong as frick defense. They should be like a slow grinder renforcing and siege positions
Frick, no! I say this both for playing as and against terran. Turtle mech was cancer and I hope it never makes a comeback.
[...] >Starcraft lives off its ladder
Nope. Co-op. https://youtu.be/XehNK7UpZsc?t=117
[...]
SOVL
[...]
His motives make even less sense. >"How do I prove I am better than my father?" >"I know I will risk trillions of lives by refusing to ask for the Emperor's help on this imperial matter!"
How emotionally old IS he?
And he'd have to be lying. No way Tychus just happens to be his dad's Manchurian candidate by coincidence.
Tell you what. Why don't you explain to me Valerian's plan and then Arcturus's plan. And see if they had no better alternatives? Arcturus is a smart guy enough to figure out that the Confederacy was behind the zerg attacks and Valerian is smart enough to figure the importance of the artifacts out. These are not stupid people.
I'm trying to say something cool here, and you keep being a homosexual
>wanting to frick Kerrigan
What if you were fricking her in one of those evol chambers or hives and as you're about to climax you get a glimpse of the outside through an orifice opening (since Kerrigan basically controls all zerg and can do this easily to a structure), and you saw a Zergling staring right at you? As you climax in Kerrigan?
>amon >a secret behind the curtain character >funds shady race mix researches >uses his agents to manipulate races and cause in fighting >suddenly turned into LE BAD cape shit garbage tier villain
Blizzard got punished for being open about ~~*them*~~
>Earth Terrans never expanded >THIS SECTOR OF THE UNIVERSE IS THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE SO THE STORY STAYS HERE >Protoss are supposed to be space conquerors >gets dabbed on by zerg and terran >Terrans of the Koprulu sector are 10000 years behind Earth Terran's tech >still be able to go toe to toe against Protoss and Zerg >Zerg >Kerrigan just spawns billions of these aliens from her c**t and manages to overpower everything else
it plays like Dawn of War, and Company of Heroes
forming groups of units spearheaded by a hero unit, who has all the abilties of individual units on his person, ect
i wish they would make Jim straggle a bit more
he went from >i will kill you b***h
to >we have to save her
in a whim
i get that kerigan supposed to be an only hope and all
but wait till he gets on char hellbent to kill her and then zeratul shows up to convince him
you can even have a bro final mission with the protos ally
fixing hots is harder, in my opinion its the worst campaign both in level design and the story
i would say let her keep her human form and not let her loose every mission
make her create cerebrates again to keep brood obedient or use psi emitters on queens
Lotv is stupid because it goes way too big for its own good
we kill hybrids left and right questioning why should we be afraid of them
make them fricking scary
and spear of adun is dumb you should teleport as much protos as you need instead of a nexus and 5 probes
story however i dont know how to fix mostly because hots need to be rewriten
Nah Jim is fine, he's emotionally unstable and thirsting for Dat ass
HotS is really hard to fix because the final setup for WoL was dezergifying Kerrigan
Off the top of my head you could have the xel'naga appear at the start of the campaign ready to frick shit up and you play the xel'naga commander, eventually you coerce Kerrigan to ally with you because you need to hunt down the final bad guy and she's still a juiced up psionic
Then LotV basically everyone gets mind controlled including the xel'naga, maybe Kerrigan dies in the first mission and the protoss have to figure out a way to prevent the end of all life as we know it without a prophecy to save or guide them
make co-op mode right away and then focus on that more
it's the best mode in SC2 and I'm upset that they only added it when the game was already dying and then abandoned it
making Kerrigan vengeful is kind of stupid
she could've killed Mengsk in brood war when she was evil
and now that she became zerg voluntary her only desire is to kill him
She's puppeted by Amon in WoL. Now, if you're asking why she's opposing Narud (aka Duran), who is also working for Amon and also looking for the Xel'Naga Artifacts, then you're getting close to the actual answer: they didn't know what they were doing with Kerrigan in WoL and were making shit up as they went
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, Kerrigan is not puppeted by Amon in WoL. Jim is.
2 years ago
Anonymous
well Jim succeeded
so Amon plan was kind of shit
2 years ago
Anonymous
But Jim's success was Amon's plan succeeding. Don't you understand how Tzeentch works?
2 years ago
Anonymous
When Jim used the artifact to make Kerrigan human, Amon was winning.
2 years ago
Anonymous
then why zeratul didnt stopped that?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Jim is figuratively puppeted by Amon, in the sense that he's tricked into doing what he wants. Queen of Blades is literally under his control.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No she wasn't. That is moronic. Why would Kerrigan steal the artifact from Narud. Though I agree that Jim was only being puppeted by Amon through Moebius Corp and the contracts.
then why zeratul didnt stopped that?
I don't know and was never got an answer. But Zeratul only shows up once in WoL, then sticks around in HotS to make Kerrigan Zerg again. Perhaps it's a "If you didn't make her human she would have died and then everyone would have died" thing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Amon retroactively made WoL, sc1 and BW worse with this kind of throw the tracks down while driving the train tier writing
2 years ago
Anonymous
I could not get over the fact that Metzen had the money and resources to plan and write the plot over three games and still fricked it up by producing a product that felt like winging it game by game.
Few writers get the chance to have three fricking guaranteed games/seasons to write a plot but he did and just fricked the dog not only for Starcraft but for every property under Blizzard. All those video clips of him smirking at Blizzcon autists who understood the lore better than he did it's just fricking awful.
If gaming had paid historians Blizzard would be studied in literature as how to frick up everything despite having the most opportunity in the history of paid fiction.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's simply because happy people don't make good art, which is why coked out batshit crazy young metzen made so much cool shit but then the moment he mellowed out it was over
2 years ago
Anonymous
I might agree with you about happy people not being able to make GREAT art, but good art can easily be the product of money and time resources. You pay people to storyboard, map the plot, plan which points you have to it - it's no different than constructing a house. There has never been anything soulful about the process but the process is important to make the soul express itself. The only part of the proper process that was competently executed was in the graphic assets of Starcraft but the lore just went to fricking shit. I feel really fricking bad that the voice actor for Kerrigan was replaced because she was really good but they got the hottest sci-fi b***h in the business at the time to replace her - that's the result of competence despite being soulless.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The more batshit insane the artist is, the more soul leaks straight into the work
If rhey don't care you can instantly tell
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I could not get over the fact that Metzen had the money and resources to plan and write the plot over three games and still fricked it up by producing a product that felt like winging it game by game.
To be fair blizzard always winged it. They would make stuff up as it came along, that is why WC 1 2 and 3 are all quite different with some retcons. Its not bad, the stories are still fun, but it is important that SC2 started from a blank slate, it is not like metzen already had a sequel planned out storywise.
I get the feeling metzen changed and his tastes changed with him. Angsty grimdark metal shit wasnt his style anymore. He couldnt be bothered to try and maintain the same tone, and seeing how they would change things up between sequels he just figured he could make up new shit. It doesnt help he constantly writes the same story.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I understand that art starts as you just winging it. And the success depends on a lot of luck. But the right thing to do once you stumble across something that works is to sit down and codify why it's a success because you really don't want to leave up to chance to the circumstances of (being in jail/being coked out/just broke up/death) re-inspiring you again. There are incredibly few examples of just letting the artists just off the leash without any real oversight and even then there are signs of decay because no boss or editor or governing body is there to keep shit in line.
I think a good example to explore the usefulness of structure and the failure of lack of structure is South Park. Now, South Park IS just the guys winging it every week, episodes are sometimes finalized a few hours before air. They were able to keep this up but at some point they forgot the characterization of the characters. At no point did they plan some kind of broad arc of the characters and now the show is a fricking mess of caricatures when the genius just got too tired. The WoW episode, often cited as the best episode ever, wasn't actually going to get released because they thought it was so fricking bad. But their editor, the one lady who was the actual person doing the difficult thinking insisted that it was getting broadcast. They alone couldn't see what someone else in the room can see. And that's the fricking problem with Blizzard because it really felt like nobody above, beside, or below him was there to scream at fricking Metzen that they were ruining this shit. They just let him go because he was the golden goose but nobody can fricking lay golden eggs forever. This is why editors are so fricking important, they actually have to sit down and fricking THINK while the creatives go off and ride rollercoasters all day.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Jim is figuratively puppeted by Amon, in the sense that he's tricked into doing what he wants. Queen of Blades is literally under his control.
No she wasn't. That is moronic. Why would Kerrigan steal the artifact from Narud. Though I agree that Jim was only being puppeted by Amon through Moebius Corp and the contracts.
[...]
I don't know and was never got an answer. But Zeratul only shows up once in WoL, then sticks around in HotS to make Kerrigan Zerg again. Perhaps it's a "If you didn't make her human she would have died and then everyone would have died" thing.
Amon retroactively made WoL, sc1 and BW worse with this kind of throw the tracks down while driving the train tier writing
then why zeratul didnt stopped that?
>Amon needs the artifacts to activate and absorb zerg energy and come back >Kerrigan wants to stop that >If Jimmy just sat at home, none of this shit would have even happened
mfw Jimmy was the bad guy all along!
2 years ago
Anonymous
The only thing Jim did was, uh, he, um, he stole the Odin and caused a rebellion that got Mengsk dethroned r-right? Oh and I guess he killed a couple Taldarim.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Being horny for your batshit crazy toxic (genocidal) ex gf is a hell of a drug
Supposedly she already knows what the Xelnaga artifacts do and who they are for (but she's not telling Jim cause he hurt her feelings). It could explain why she doesn't seem to care about Mengsk but we don't really know what happened between them, but the Odin was created to stop the Zerg soooo...
artosis is moving to canada from korea because he has 4 kids and they don't want to raise them like literal bugmen in a korean city. so instead, they decided to become bugmen in eastern Canada
In the 90s everyone thought SC2 was going to be Blizzard's next big project after W3. Everyone was dissapointed when WoW was announced. No one wanted an Evercrack clone.
People speculated the protoss-zerg hybrids would be added as a fourth playable race, making the game's 4-side balance more akin to W3's than Brood War.
There was also speculation the was would go to Earth, since the UED proved it was only a hop, skip, and jump away.
Wow was fine, blizzard also worked on SC ghost and purchased the diablo studio. So they werent just making RTS. Especially back when games were easier to make so jumping from genre to genre wasnt as difficult. WOW was set up to be a fairly minor game that could compete with everquest, not be the landmark title it would end up being.
>since the UED proved it was only a hop, skip, and jump away.
Didnt it require the UED fleet years of FTL flight in cryosleep to get to the korpulu sector?
To be honest I never really knew what they were planning with both hybrid and UED. The hybrid were connected to the xelnaga and were perfect beings so they would be OP as frick. The UED also was supposed to be OP. And if they sent out a more serious force they couldve raped everyone.
Who has the fattest ass, Kerrigan, Nova, or that Medic?
All units are to scale. Battlecruisers orbit planets. Tens of thousands of marines in cities, massive swarms of mutalisks. Buildings crumble. Cities turn to glass. Massive factories building vehicles on Omega scales.
Need to zoom in and out, no homosexual supreme commander icon simulator.
Why u say that? Zerg would be amazing, millions of zerglings swarming planets. Use micromanagement to funnel them properly and flank. A million zerg could be stopped if not micromanaged.
I’d like to see a total war style game set in the StarCraft/wh40k/whatever universe.
So instead of building individual homies, you build frickhueg squads of dudes. You could even keep the base building and whatnot, but just move away from the massed blobs of bullshit, and incorporate line of sight, cover, positioning etc.
It annoys me that games where that shit is in, always have stupid company of heroes capture points, since I prefer resource gathering and base building like in command and conquer and age of empires, but the actual fighting in shit like men of war, total warhammer, or company of heroes.
I guess cnc3 did come a little closer to it by making the infantry into squads, but even then, and as fricking awesome as that game is for the variety they added to multiplayer and skirmish setup, it was pretty rudimentary as far as the actual killing each other part went.
So if I was in charge, I’d make a hybrid of OG StarCraft, and company of heroes.
Sure, the Koreans would maybe hate it cos they can’t blob and rush as effectively (not that blobbing didn’t work in coh, to be fair) but it would actually move the fricking genre forward somewhat.
Either that, or I’d take the money and just make world in conflict 2 instead.
i get that you like these these of rts, but they exist already
i love my individual homies and i dont want to control my homies more accurately then one blob
so making the other game out of this one isn't a good idea nor do i like it
I can’t think of any that have squads but base building/resource gathering instead of node control.
Lemme know if there actually are any! Genuinely would be rad!
Nah they had capture points.
I literally just want classic base building, but with units that favour tactics and positioning over blobbing.
Not even really big on micro with abilities and shit, more just adding cover, sight lines, destructible terrain, and squads you can reinforce and veteran etc.
Take the 33% highground miss rate and change it to -33% damage dealt, other than that change nothing.
Broodwar is basically perfect, the only other comparable game in that regard is Tetris.
>cant play 2 zerg in 2v2s because that breaks the game >maps need to be designed in a very specific way or zerg can rape anyone >island maps are broken
You can cut out James' moronic love for Kerrigan and WoL will be perfect
SC2 went full moron with the talking jungle zerg
The only way it could get worse is if at the end someone looks at the camera and says "at last we are truly Starcraft too"
I thought wings of liberty was fricking excellent, the only thing I'd change would be the in-game artstyle being more gritty like the cutscenes instead of colourful lego blocks
And the story?
Story of WoL was fricking great, tychus was a bro and they did him dirty, it didn't go to shit till HotS and then full moron till LotV
Cope
Tychus did himself dirty when he signed with Mengsk.
He opted to die on his own terms at the end, and spent the last half of the campaign subtly trying to get Raynor to not go face Kerrigan, since he knew that it was a one-way street for him.
But he still stuck through it for his buddy, and even for a bit of a righteous cause he hadn't felt in over a decade.
If Tychus really wanted to kill Kerrigan at the end, he would have just pulled the trigger instead of talking to Jimmy. We see him do the exact same thing to a dominion marine, with a smile on his face, not four missions prior.
Tychus' last words were "Dayum shame..." for a reason. A deal with the devil comes with the devil's dues.
He was the best written character in SC2 by a mile.
Tychus never had a choice, it was get a bomb strapped to his chest or be disappeared
You're goddamn right he was the best character, name a better bro in all of videogames, F
Mengsk wouldn't have just killed him if he refused to double-deal Raynor.
Tychus would be, at worst, leverage against Raynor at a different time and place. But he'd be in prison for it, and Tychus is very much not a patient man. So, he took the chance to get out, consequences be damned.
>Mengsk wouldn't have just killed him if he refused to double-deal Raynor
He didn't know that, all he was told is go convince your buddy to go kill this genocidal b***h and you're free to go, or you'll rot in here forever
At the time with the knowledge he has available it's pretty cut and dry which seems the better choice
It's implied that he knew about the suit shutting down his organs on command. That's not exactly standard marine operations.
What is unknown is when exactly he learned of this. It might have been during his suiting up and it was dropped on him like a ton of bricks, mid procedure, but it wasn't stated in the lore, to my knowledge.
What I meant is that he is more or less forced into a bad situation because he chose to take the fall for his partner all those years ago and said partner now has powerful enemies who own the prison he's stuck in
There was never once a winnable route for tychus and watching him try and come to terms with that was kino
Eh, I suppose if you go that far back, then yeah. He took the fall, and that was really his last wholly autonomous act as a free man until he decided to not kill Kerrigan.
Everything else was influenced from majorly to minimally. Influence from the law, prison, Mengsk, or literal death threats.
The boy had it rough.
>Raynor managed to receive a message from Hammond, who revealed that his mother was dying, with only a few weeks to live. After some soul searching, Raynor resolved to head back to Shiloh. Findlay was against it—O'Banon had given them a job, and he was tired of Raynor complaining about their benefactor. The two men almost came to blows, but Findlay eventually relented, seeing how important heading to Shiloh was to his friend. He agreed to drop him off there and give him a day to conduct his business.
>tychus was a bro and they did him dirty
I still think its stupid that somehow they couldnt figure out a way to cut him out of the suit. I know, its booby trapped to go off if you tamper with it, but still. Not a single protoss or terran machine can somehow disable the bomb or extract tychus out of the suit without destroying it?
"Hey btw my suit is rigged to self destruct if I don't do my mis- *kaboom*"
That's why
They know right. Why else would he always wear the suit even in the hyperion?
Nobody asks or he just deflects, because he doesn't wanna go boom
>nobody asks
why
>deflect
yeah because some guy that got away from mensgk, a known snake, totally isnt suspicious
They don't know that
They literally find out if you complete Media Blitz. Matt even says "they have a gun to his head" But they just decide to keep him on board anyway. It's really weird.
based
Protoss have the ability to warp people. Just warp Tychus into a shuttle without his suit.
I want to warp my semen into your mouth.
I want to warp my penis into the middle of the zergs hive mind.
You guys are such actual homosexuals.
>it'll be a small destracton while I attack their main base
They'll never know what hit them. As in, like a DT attacking drones, It's much too small to even notice.
I'll throw in a few carrier's, the I'll just bust in with my maxed out zealots and dragoons. Invisible
>carrier's
>'
ESLs I swear to fricking Christ.
I didn't spell it wrong you hick
You implied the carrier has ownership of something, yet never said what it was.
That's why you die because your focused in my 2 carrier while I'm raping the shit out of your base on foot
focus on
What is the proper term for mulipulte carrier then?
Carriers.
Carrieri obviously
carrius
You lose. It's a good distraction
carri
I think the suit is too far integrated into his body. Remember that in the intro it's literally bolted into his body via cybernetic implants.
>I know, its booby trapped to go off if you tamper with it
I don't think you really know. The human body is a fragile thing and it's incredibly easy to kill even when you have time-stopping alien powers. They will have teams of people monitoring Tychus every second of his life and the moment they get a whiff of him betraying he dies.
Governments have the means to kill anybody in the world today easily without any way for the victim to stop it. The only reason why we don't is because we've put so many safeguards and penalties in place that doing so would end or ruin the life of whoever is involved.
To that end, the fact that Kerrigan or Raynor didn't fricking ask the Dark Templar to simply kill Mengsk without murdering billions of Terran lives and destroying an immense amount of Terran military assets is ridiculous.
funny how the then decided to undo all that by having kerrigen just turn into the zerg queen again.
>go through all that shit and tychus dies over neutralizing kerrigan and turning her back into a human
>5 minutes later. kerrigan immediately turns herself into a zerg but this time shes even more of a zerg than before. completely undoing all of raynors work.
>protoss basically had no story except gather all the other protoss cut content so we can defeat gigahomie9000
Bravo metzen
Hoes before bros indeed
God, I remember when the end cinematic was revealed for HOTS. People were saying it was fake because it looked so bad. That it was fake because the story was that moronic.
God, I hate blizzard
>revealed
leaked*
And then compare to the absolute KINO of the HotS launch trailer
It's everything that I'm hoping space marine 2 will be
Have the universe team up to kill Kerrigan and make a pit stop to kill mengsk when he backstabs everyone again. They killed the franchise the second they invented amon. It might work in a different setting but goddamn, it was worse than fricking highlander 2 in terms of continuity
>They killed the franchise the second they invented amon.
You do realize that the "dark entity who wants to make hybrids" was baked into the story since brood war, right?
Ah yes they clearly intended for the xel Naga to be literal deities and for Kerrigan to ascend to ssj4godssj to kill the actual devil in that one secret mission. Clearly there was no other way to take the story.
>Ah yes they clearly intended for the xel Naga to be literal deities
Literally yes, read the Protoss lore.
>and for Kerrigan to ascend to ssj4godssj to kill the actual devil in that one secret mission. Clearly there was no other way to take the story.
I never said that.
I've read the protoss lore. It's ancient history to them and doesn't need to be canon or literal. The xel Naga could've just been slightly more advanced aliens who could create life and liked to frick around. Not... what we got. Kerrigan was always infinitely better as a villain than some badly thought out galactic mastermind. Never really fell in line with the rest of the continuity?
Protoss was the hardest difficulty. Did you beat the game?
All of the campaigns several times. I still have my original manual with the zerg brood populations in the 10s of millions (lmao).
They could've just ignored it and made Kerrigan the badguy. Or done literally anything else? I was kinda hyped to play as xel Naga but holy goddamn I was not expecting forty mile space elephants
Zerg are fun, but I know exactly how they work. All I need is 4 zealots lvl2 weapons, and a recharger
>4 more zealots just warped in
>Kerrigan was always infinitely better as a villain than some badly thought out galactic mastermind. Never really fell in line with the rest of the continuity?
I can agree to that. StarCraft felt like a real space opera.
Yeah but it could have been just Durand, unless im remembering wrong the N64 mission. The Xel Naga were more interesting when they were just in the background.
>Yeah but it could have been just Durand,
Nope
>At this time, a mysterious voice contacted Zeratul. The voice announced itself as Samir Duran, but said it had taken on many names "throughout the millennia" and Samir Duran was only how Zeratul would know it. It denied Kerrigan having any hand in the experiments here, and Zeratul questioned what Duran was if not her pawn. Duran said he was a servant of "a far greater power" that had slept for "countless ages" and was reflected in the hybrid.
https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Origin
Fair enough, there is still a lot you can do with that description that doesn't involve the xel naga.
>IMMA KILL YOU ONE DAY KERRIGAN
>Lol just kidding, i love you despite only have 3 lines of dialogue with you in Broodwar
>also lel whos Fenix?
>Tassadar is now space jesus and his sacrifice was for nothing
>Zerg are feral and dindu nuffin, they were corrupted. you know, just like how orcs were corrupted in Warcraft because Metzen can only write 1 story
>DBZ SUPER POWERS
>Yes male xelnagas look like slugs, but kerrigan keeps her hair, boobs and gets anime wings
>Frick Tychus. Hoes b4 bros.
>Zeratul is now a homosexual
Bravo metzen
>kerrigan gets corrupted
>murders everyone
>is proud of it, doesnt give a frick
>sequel makes her a good girl who dindu nuttin
>arthas gets corrupted
>murders everyone
>doesnt care about it, mentions his soul is stolen so he feels no remorse
>WOW makes him a good boy who held the scourge back
>He's never had a Tammy in his life
Just look at what she did to Ron swanson
streamline the gameplay down to one resource type and maybe 3 or 4 combat units per race. You can still build all the cool looking buildings though
All they had to do was limit the control groups and starcraft 2 would have been perfect
This, but zoomers will complain about the micro management. Being able to mass your entire army into a huge ball with ease and roam it across the map is moronic and contradictory to good RTS gameplay
Imagine thinking SC1 represents "good RTS gameplay" because you're limited by your human dexterity
It's realistic. Do you think if a commander orders alll units to attack a building that they will split off into groups of 12 and mill around aimlessly if not directed? That was basically Brood War's moronic pathfinding. And don't even get me started on the dragoons.
It's just muh apm dickheads, you don't see any of this b***hing in other rts's about a-clicking with all your units
Hell in older command and conquers you didn't even have a supply cap so nothing was stopping you from making enough units to freeze the game the second they opened fire
I would take the money and give it to the devs of Factorio, the actual future of top-down RTS. It has like, actual factories instead of a dumb box that churns out units with no visible supply chains.
Why do midwits think that making things more complex makes them "better"?
Legacy of the void was kino
World of Starcraft with playable Terran, Protoss and infested humanoid zerg race fighting against bad zerg and UED invaders. Gameplay would be hybrid of mmo skills and tps shooter.
>starcraft mmo
>can only play as humanoid zerg
thank fricking GOD you'll never make a game
have a nice day for thinking of that
>he doesn't want to play a sexy zerg queen with mandibles and shark teeth
Smh
Just give us Starcraft:Ghost. I want to call down nuke.
pla we dont need erp trannies here
mmos are franchise killers
even if sc is dead they will dig up the corpse and rape right after they put cat ears on it
What the frick happened with sc II anyway?
WoL was great
HotS was okay
LotW was meh to bad
The core gameplay held strong all the way through, but the plot, campaign mechanics and mission variety were consistently going down with every new campaign.
Kerrigan being a mary sue.
yea wokeism happened to blizz before anyone could react
and now there are many such cases, sad
kerrigan was a mary sue in brood war
was a mary sue in brood war
Nah, you constantly beat her when playing as the other races. She only survives through backstabbing, hardly a mary sue trait.
she wasn't a mary sue because 1. she betrayed raynor and felt bad about it and 2. she's hated by pretty much everyone except the zerg. meanwhile in sc2 she's forgiven for everything with no reason whatsoever
Back when they were being released, someone leaked an ending where Kerrigan kills wotsisname. They had to go and alter it a bunch on release.
Chris Metzen was the right kind of edgy with 1 and Brood war. When he got married, fat and happy, Kerrigan became a Mary-Sue.
kills who? jim?
Mengsk
Took a second to remember
Haha anon, I remember that. They didn't change a damn thing. All they did was make it so that, instead of Mengsk getting thrown out a window, he now explodes from Kerrigan injecting him with psionic purple glowey energy.
writing in every medium from videogames to film to literature has been in serious decline since the 90s at least
>HotS was okay
HOTS killed the game.
More specifically, HOTS Swarm Hosts killed the game. No matter what LotV could do to fix the multiplayer the damage was done.
Starcraft lives off its ladder and UMS, both of which Blizzard fricked up hilariously.
You guys are lucky I don't play anymore
Bw is the only ladder match with working twords
>worth
Before expansion packs were a cheap way to get more money. You already did all the hard work of creating the game, the expansion pack could then reuse all the assets you made, add in some stuff that was left on the cutting room floor, and fix some balance issues. Thats what brood war did, that is what frozen throne did.
But blizzard decided that for SC2 they would make 2 expansions that would be far bigger. And that just doesnt work
It wouldve been better if they just made a standard expansion and then worked on SC3.
>cheap way to get more money
They were valued at 50% the price of the original game and most of the added so much content it was worth it. Gotta respect that.
but at the same time it is less than 50% development cost for the devs. Not having to make an engine, make a bunch of assets from scratch, make a bunch of coding and trigger work from scratch, all of that saves a lot of money. So the margin on it is bigger and better for them. Thats why any remotely successful game had an expansion, not just RTS, but also stuff like quake or halflife.
At the same time it really completed the package. So I dont mind them being a bit greedy here. Its a lot better than what we have nowadays. DLC is just a few missions, a map pack or horse armor.
I agree, the old expansion model was a perfect balance between new content/time investment/cost. Way superior to the DLC bs we get nowadays.
WoL was absolute dogshit in the plot department compared to Starcraft and Broodwar. Reeks of nu-Blizzard. Of course fricking tasteless nerds swallowed it right up. Didn't even try HotS because of that.
Gameplay was good tho
>Captcha PS4 8K
>Of course fricking tasteless nerds swallowed it right up.
I remember after release quite some negative comments on it
>kerrigan being a good girl trapped inside an evil shell, which broodwar made sure to shut down
>no mention of the UED
>overmind being a good guy all along
But between muh esports and people happy to get a new blizzard game it didnt really get too much traction.
I mean the single player was and is almost universally reviled. But nobody gave a shit because lol multiplayer
>I mean the single player was and is almost universally reviled
plenty of people love the SP. maybe not the story, but the gameplay was appreciated
None of those things you're b***hing about were in WoL
WoL was kino
Where was the UED mentioned in WOL
Kerrigan was in WOL
Overmind was a good guy after all in WOL (zeratul missions)
The stuff you're complaining about is touched on in HotS where the story all goes to shit
You see stukov again who explains how badly the ued got fricked, you don't see she dindu nuffin' until HotS, you don't get the full meat and potatoes for zergs were tragic heroes all along till HotS
WoL on its own was self contained and great
If you're talking about wc3 then the best army introduced was the undead and the demons. They fricked up death knights
>you don't see she dindu nuffin' until HotS
she literally calls out to jim for help during the final fight. Like shes trapped inside of her body. While BW was pretty clear there was no old kerrigan left. (In SC1 there was an inkling she might still have some humanity left because she lets jimmy go after she hatches from the egg, but after BW true colors its clear that shes not good in any way or form)
Zeratul approaches jim and says that the overmind wasnt an evil creature, but actually tried to do his best to save the galaxy.
Here:https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Overmind#Zeratul's_Visit
>"I have come to tell you of this creature's... courage."
You don't know how fast I can download zealots
In the final fight you're charging a magic maguffin that's fully dezerg'ing her not just breaking the overminds connection because Jimmy wants his toxic ex gf back, it's perfectly hand waveable here but then goes full moron in HotS
I coulda sworn the shit with overmind was in HotS when they were doing shit at the primal zerg planet but looks like I remembered wrong
>In the final fight you're charging a magic maguffin that's fully dezerg'ing her not just breaking the overminds connection because Jimmy wants his toxic ex gf back, it's perfectly hand waveable here but then goes full moron in HotS
To me it seemed pretty clear from BW that it wasnt her zerg self being evil. It was kerrigan. Human or not. Kerrigan always was a dangerous character, and now she has been betrayed once again, and this time she decides she wants to be in charge
Yeah. Which makes for a compelling villain... not saying frick that let's give her a redemption arc while she's standing on Fenix's ashes
Kerrigan was never a compelling villain. She has no goals or motivations beyond just killing people because...? She was just a generic spec ops killer with psychic powers who got eaten by the overmind and then went berserk once its control disappeared. She reminds me of Tim Roth's character in that Hulk movie where he's given the hulk boost and he just wants more and more until he goes full-Abomination then starts blowing up the city just for the fun of it. That's about the same depth of villainy as Kerrigan ever had. At least Tim had the decency to enjoy it.
Kerrigan's response to Jim de-zergifying her should be to kill him and then go on pretty much the same quest she ends up going on in-game except with the purpose of regaining her power for her own lust for it rather than to help people for no reason.
If that had been her response, the plot might've been salvageable. Then it wouldn't be the entire setting warping itself to fit Jim's delusions, but just Jim himself being a lunatic moron who then suffers the consequences for it as he should.
>become primal queen of blades
>looks exactly like old corrupted queen of blades
They could have gone with something different. It WAS lazy
Not the anon, but Kerrigan only killed people out of necessity.
>helps bring down the Confederacy, which is NOT! nuking their own planets
>she lets Jim go in Char
>kills the protoss because they are attacking her on Char first
>works with Zeratul to destroy the new Overmind so she doesn't get controlled
>kills the protoss from Aiur beucase it's getting messy
>kills the UED because they are creating their own Overmind to rule the sector
>destroy the toss and terran in Korhal because she knows it's a matter of time before they come after her again.
>kill them when they DO come after her
>still lets Jimmy walk
>still lets Mengsk walk
She was a cool vilain because she fought a defensive war and won by being a mean b***h. It's only in SC2 that she starts razing whole planets
>Tosh
God, I wish!
You forgot newscast early in WoL when Kerrigan finally starts doing shit again
>"*static* BILLIONS DEAD *static*"
She's a mass murderer, but with an ass like that....
>It's only in SC2 that she starts razing whole planets'
how does that contradict his post?
She wasn't killing people out of necessity, maybe at the very start, but eventually she was just doing it cuz she could
She come to finish the job.
God I wish she'd finish me.
If she had a monstrous face like one of the hive queens I'd agree
>believing ~~*the news*~~
>in Wings of Liberty
Why?
trust DONNY VERMILLION
BROOD WARS
>Kerrigan defeats all other factions combined
>Mengsk expended his last political clout
SC2
>Mengsk is inexplicably still Emperor
>Kerrigan has been evolving the zerg in secret for years
>somehow Mengsk's army is strong enough to defeat the evolved version of the Zerg who defeated them, the UED, and the Protoss before
it makes 0 sense.
Not sure why you are replying to me, but Kerrigan won the Brood War through guile, not brute force. She threw the protoss and Mengsk against the UED and then backstabbed them both.
Mengsk is still emperor because there is no one standing to dethrone him.
She was corrupted, and she was so bad ass that she took it over for herself for power.
You can still handwave that away as her being half zerg with no human dna left, regardless of overmind connection
The maguffin is built to dezerg things so the human side starts coming out
Or since everything is now amon mind controlling everyone retroactively removing all character agency in sc1/bw the device is breaking the link
I prefer option A because all the amon stuff in HotS and lotv was total garbage
You forgot to mention that the game takes place after the Broodwar Zerg campaign. You know, the one where Kerrigan has an army capable of washing over the entire galaxy. Always loved that. It ends with you sieging Char despite not crippling the Zerg in any way lol.
You mean the brood war campaign where on the last mission she barely wins against everyone's combined forces and everyone including her need to go lick their wounds afterwards?
When did Kerrigan stop winning?
Yeah, that also confused me. You just attack char and somehow win. Like, you just have the fleet of the dominion. Somehow they managed to rebuild faster than the zerg.
Before SC2 I figured SC2 would be about fighting an overwhelming zerg force with the remnants of the protoss and terran
I agree. The only reason the story of WoL gets praise is because the other two SC2 campaigns were worse.
I think playing the story exclusively as the good guys is the wrong idea. raynor was the most compelling because he had conflict in him on kerrigan and wanting revenge on mensk but overall choosing to be the hero
I mean, Kerrigan does a lot of fricked up shit in HotS. The fact that the narrative treats her as a good guy regardless is part of the problem.
Well yeah
They never showed the consequences of the decisions she made except making her boyfriend sigh
>boyfriend wastes countless lives just to get you into rehab so he can finally tap the ass of the girl he fell in love with again
>don't see him for a few weeks and relapse 10x harder than before
>lol sorry
No wonder terrans couldn't do shit after that, Jimmy is a broken man
I've finished replaying Brood War a couple weeks ago and finished replaying WoL on Monday. Here's what I think:
>Mechanics
SC2 is great and needs nothing fixed here for a good game. I have a personal gripe of not being able to use rapid fire with grid hotkeys, but that's minor.
The game would benefit a lot if it had more starting workers. It amazed me so much much that it took to LotV to get to 12 workers.
The level design sucks ass, though. Most missions are too linear in design and too short. I would be excited about the prospect of ever maxing out given the mechanical improvements to the game, but for the majority of the missions across all campaigns you will be on two bases, hardly ever so on three, and most of them will be done in twenty minutes or so. Compare it to Brood Wars, where a lot of missions were longer and the maps were wide. You could pick which base you'd be attacking first and each enemy faction would have a different composition, so it was up to you to choose who you'd fight in any given mission. WoL did that with Engine of Destruction, but that was the exception, rather than the rule.
I also disliked that they kept the players on a leash, where the rhythms of progress were all too limited. In Brood War, the AI but as you did, so if you tried to win early on, the AI would be rather weak, but as the mission progressed, they'd have progressively more stuff and it seemed like their AI adapted to counter your composition. In SC2, in general, you have to be aggressive at precisely the points they tell you to. In "Welcome to the Jungle", for example, you have to go left, then right and then destroy the center base (maybe switch the last two), because these are the geysers the AI will go for without variation, so you will always play that mission at that rate. There is no free expo, like in BW, where you could decide if you wanted to go greedy. (cont.)
>The game would benefit a lot if it had more starting workers
No thank you. Adding more workers removes a lot of early game alternate routes of strategy and you essentially start in the middle of the game. There's a lot that can go in in the first few minutes with minimal resources and even when the boosted it the first time it killed a decent amount of beginning options.
I'm talking specifically about the campaign here. There's not much you can do in the early game. You don't have enough units to go and kill stuff. You don't have access to a free expo to focus on saving money to build another CC like you did in Brood War, so what you roughly do is make workers and maybe micro a marine around to collect the resources pick-ups for two minutes.
I also prefer more workers on the ladder because it speeds the game to the point where we are actually fighting with armies, which is what I like. I also find it more enjoyable to watch faster matches. But I understand what you mean.
"conveniently placed" stuff is just game design in general, anon. Why the hell would there be mineral patches in the main square of the terran capital of the entire sector? Because stuff needs to be there. And for 1999, it was truly great, both narratively and design-wise. Proof is that we are still talking about it two decades later.
Are we talking about the same game? Jimmy steals his mega mech and nuke Valhalla's facility, preventing further Odin production, then he takes said Odin to the capital world, explodes half the city and strikes a massive PR blow on him. Consider how much better the invasion on Char would have gone if Valerian didn't gift Battlecruisers to Jimmy and if Warfield had access to OdinS (PLURAL).
And there's nothing in the plot that really ties Jimmy as Mengsk's rival. Since Tychus knows where to find Jimmy, it's safe to assume that so does Mengsk. If he ever wanted Jimmy dead in those six years of alcoholism, all he needed to do was to get a ghost there and done.
It gets dumber when you realize that both Jim and Sarah have been quiet for the last six years. He didn't only kick a hornet's nest. He kicked a hornet's nest into another hornet's nest.
>Again Valarien own the mobious corp which he say himself.
But Tychus is still working for Arcturus. Junior lied?
>If he ever wanted Jimmy dead in those six years of alcoholism, all he needed to do was to get a ghost there and done.
They do address this in a conversation with Tosh. He says that assassinating Jimmy would just make him a martyr and cause even more people to turn against him. Makes sense, but at some point you'd think Mengsk would be like "eh screw it".
The same awful shit happened in missions like Engine of Destruction, Lock and Load, The Mobius Factor etc.
ALL the campaigns failed hard in giving the player base management control. Instead of having 4 or 5 bases and having to defend them all, you have enough resources clustered at a single base, you hardly ever need to expand and you can just bunker up your front door. It's no wonder I see so many people playing turtle when they go on the ladder. They have been trained to play defense all the time and be forever punished for greed. The map I just posted starts you with a free expo and you won't finish it on less than four bases.
Here's another with one free (but vulnerable) expo to the center and an easy one to the left. Meanwhile, in SC2, you could at most get a free bundle of resources if you moved out of the base.
The campaigns really benefited from giving the liberty of customizing your armies, but the non-linear way you get units is rather suckish and the way they structured the story non-linearly to give you some wiggle room in building your army composition ultimately backfried on the narrative side and design as well. In most missions, you just have to amass the unit the mission is introducing and call it a day. I'd rather they didn't give you any new units per mission, gave you more credits and you could buy the tech to buy the units you actually want. (cont.)
Lol SC1's campaign sucks. Zero visual appeal (the maps are all just barren wastelands with nonsensical topography and conviently placed resources instead of "the future" "in space"), every mission is a piss-easy map sweep. At least it's not WC3 (ugliest game ever made)
Atmosphere-wise, they killed Starcraft. I don't play World of Warcraft, but I think the heroic of the game bled into Starcraft, if WoW is anything like what I imagine.
The UI in Brood War is darker, the soundtrack is somber and the effects are darker. The zerg cerebrate's voice creeped me out as a kid - the entirety of the zerg did. They made the UI shinier in the remaster and it was honestly a downgrade. The more heroic tone would bleed into the writing and narrative as well. Everything seems more like a propaganda piece, rather than grimdark sattire. And the thing is that Starcraft 2 needed to fill me with even more anxiety than 1 because of the writing - end of the world and all that. But now that everything is so badass and optimistic, I can't feel anxious. The only exception being "A Sinister Turn" and "The Mobius Factor".
It was funny watching space Australians die in SC because they were all awful stupid people. In SC2, they are still awful people, but now with a tone of heroism, which makes everything extremely absurd when you look back at things
Take Jimmy, for example. In Brood War, he was a horndog who was OK with zerg rushing two whole planets, but got angry at Mengsk for letting his date die and realizing that he, too, was expendable. Then risks everybody's lives by flying to Char, where he finds she is a monster now and walks away with the protoss, making new friends. Then he sides with her AND Mengsk to fight the UED and the new Overmind, only to be betrayed by her and swear revenge.
The guy let two planets slide but not his girlfriend or his best alien buddy. This is our hero for Wings of Liberty.
Then we have Kerrigan, who's a ruthless tactician who needs to be the heroine for the Zerg campaign, so she gets a pass in Heart of the Swarm because it was Amon all along, despite this ruining the entirety of Brood Wars in hindsight. HotS would also ruin WoL, but that's something that comes later.
(cont.)
The vilains in SC2 make less sense as well. Take the Tal'darim, for example. The soundtrack gets all evil when they show up, but in WoL, all they are doing is defending their own turf, their natural resources and relics. In "Welcome to the Jungle", you invade their planet to steal their gas so you can sell it for cash (you find out later it's for making specters). They rightfully shoot you on sight when you refuse to leave and insist on taking their shit and killing their people. And what for? To fuel a revolution during an alien apocalypse. Am I supposed to believe Jimmy is the good guy here?
The plot of Wings of Liberty is dumb as hell. We start with Mengsk monologuing for Tychus, who is going to Approach Jimmy to work for Mobius, Mengsk's research corporation that is actually being secretly controlled by Amon. By the end of the campaign, we find out that Tychus had a deal with Mengsk: he kills Kerrigan in exchange for his freedom.
So, if I got this straight, Mengsk's plan was to get this guy who worked with Jimmy, who hasn't been a problem for the last six years, instigate Jimmy to start working against him (Mengsk), starting a revolution while being funded by himself (via Mobius corp) in hopes that Jimmy would eventually go after Kerrigan using the funds provided via Mobius Corp to go to Char and kill her? Why even add Jimmy to that equation? Just send Warfield to Char and call it a day.
That's not a plothole lol, mengsk is barely even in the equation besides wanting Kerrigan dead and he knows his rival Jimmy is one of the only people competent enough to get close to her so why waste any of his own forces.
You'll notice that in most of WoL you hardly fight terrans at all, you're doing his dirty work without realizing it and the only reason typhus goes along with it is because he's literally trapped with a bomb strapped to his chest.
He even has his sperg out moment in the canteen because he knows what's gonna happen if they go to charr and is depressed as all hell about it
Raynor didn't deserve him.
Tychus*
Fricking autocorrect
The plot gets dumber by HotS. Turns out SC1 and WoL Kerrigan wasn't evil. She was being controlled by Amon, who was also in control of the zerg, which makes zero sense. If Amon controls the Overmind and the cerebrates AND Kerrigan, this means that the Overmind, under Amon's control, created Kerrigan to be out of his control, but under Amon's. Then, when the Overmind was destroyed, the cerebrates, under Amon's control created a new Overmind, also under Amon's control. Then Kerrigan, under Amon's control, reached out to the protoss so the new Overmind wouldn't control her, but both were already under Amon's control.
Then we have Samir Duran, who's lying to Kerrigan and later deserts her in her direst moment when he doesn't need her anymore. Both comment in-game about that.
We also find out that Amon is behind Mobius corp and the Tal'darim on the mission you get the ultras.
So, this means that in Smash and Grab, Amon, via Mobius Corp, send Raynor to get the protoss relic from Amon, via the Tal'darim, before Amon, via Kerrigan, could snatch it. This is dumb as hell. It's even dumber because of the reason Mobius corp needs the artifact.
Mobius needs to assemble the artifact so when it activates on Kerrigan, her psionic energy unleashed would resurrect Amon. So, Amon needs the relics, which he already has, and Kerrigan, who he already controls, to come back. Why is Jimmy on this again? None of the artifact missions make any sense when you realize that the briefers and the opponents are on the same side.
It's even more aggravating because the only threat to Amon's plan is Kerrigan. If he does all this work in a protected environment, he can simply kill Kerrigan afterwards, ensuring his victory. Jimmy is at best a waste and at worst a liability (which ends up being true).
The problem is that the whole plot is bending over backwards to accomodate Jimmy in a place he doesn't belong. Brood War had the balls to start the Terran Campaign with a whole new cast that fit the plot better and only added Jimmy later. I think the plot of SC2 would work much better if it worked in a similar way.
You start with a security contractor for Mobius, say Tychus, who figures out that Mobius is dealing with some messed up stuff and desert with a piece of the artifact or something and now they are coming after you. Now the Tal'darim have a reason to be in the story as vilains. You can even pick Jimmy, old buddy, old pal, later in the game. Then you go around the galaxy trying to figure out what this shit is, meeting Zeratul in the process and making some complicated aliances in the process with say, Kerrigan (not Amon's thrall here), or Stukov. SC2's plot was too straight forward for my taste.
HotS campaign should embrace Kerrigan as the backstabber she is and who knows who she's siding with and only by LotV we get the conclusion.
Mechanics-wise, HotS sucked ass with its discount WC3 design. I wanted to play the swarm, with massive amounts of zerg, instead, I'm stuck microing Kerrigan because it's much more cos-effective. I only got it when playing coop with Swarm Queen Zagara and Abathur. I liked the Spear of Adun buffs enough, though not as much as I liked what they did with WoL. The Master Archives was a good mechanical addition.
>Kerrigan wasn't evil. She was being controlled by Amon.
Wrong, Kerrigan say herself during Zerus mission. She was never in Amon control but an influence keep whispering to her.
>Amon controls the Overmind
It similar to Warcraft 3 where Ner zhul turn into undead and become burning legion pet. The way Kerrigan become Zerg is the same as Ner Zhul turn Arthas into his undead Champion.
Hybrid = Nathrezim
Zerg = Undead
Overmind = Ner Zhul
Kerrigan = Arthas
>Samir Duran, who's lying to Kerrigan and later deserts her in her direst moment
He been busy dealing with Zeratul that has been sniffing and found hybrid research lab if you played the secret mission in SC, that why Zeratul did not take part in final zerg mission where you fight Artanis, Mengsk and UED even though he tell Kerrigan that she will regret for letting him alive.
>Smash and Grab, Amon, via Mobius Corp, send Raynor to get the protoss relic from Amon
Now this, if you played Zeratul mission in WOL you would know why Kerrigan want to grab the artifacts. That why she been laying low in past few year before event of SC2 until he met Zeratul, she been storing extra egg if you played HOTS Char mission where you fight Zagara. Plus she never knew Mobius belong to Amon faction, since she is not in hybrid club.
>Only threat to Amon's plan is Kerrigan
Nobody knew that until Zeratul telling everyone plus she need to be dead for Amon to be revived. Amon knew about the prophecy but as long nobody know he would win which he talk about it in "In Utter Darkness" mission.
Tychus sacrifice himself to save Jimmy in the past what stopping him doing it again?
>Wrong, Kerrigan say herself during Zerus mission. She was never in Amon control but an influence keep whispering to her.
She does say that, but her behavior changes drastically before and after.
WoL Kerrigan: "Fate cannot be changed. The end comes. And when it finds me, I shall embrace it at last." https://youtu.be/amU9J0mvhuM?t=226
She's either lying or someone at Blizzard didn't do their job properly. Also,
>red eyes and evil laughter before
>normal eyes and speech after
How to spot a character change visually
>Warcraft 3
It's quite the opposite. Arthas is thrall for Ner Zhul.
>He been busy dealing with Zeratul that has been sniffing and found hybrid research lab if you played the secret mission in SC
He didn't deal with Zeratul. He just monologued evilly. Might as well just leave any given researcher there to do so, if at all. I understand that Blizzard was hinting at the sequel, so I won't complain about "vilain monogues his plan", but he clearly didn't seem to care much for Kerrigan.
>Now this, if you played Zeratul mission in WOL you would know why Kerrigan want to grab the artifacts.
I don't recall the artifacts being mentioned in the Ihan crystals at all! I remember Zeratul seeing the end of the Universe where shit went down the drain because Kerrigan died and he tells her not to kill her. Kerrigan herself said she's embracing her death.
>That why she been laying low in past few year before event of SC2 until he met Zeratul, she been storing extra egg if you played HOTS Char mission where you fight Zagara.
>be the only one with a sizeable force at the end of Brood War
>spend six years storing baneling eggs
>commence invasion before they hatch
Nice strategy, Kerrigan! Also, she would have still made it if Jimmy wasn't there. If she started artifact hunting six years ago, she would have no one to contest the artifact hunting. If Jimmy could do it, so could she.
>bow down fool
I definitely miss this style of protoss, they should have at least made more dark Templar faction units and dressed them like this since they clearly wanted goldshiny space heroes for main protoss.
I'm banned
That was metzen's take on the joining of the Templars
Yeah but all sc1 protoss art is a similar vibe
I dont object to the heroic protoss since they look cool as well, but would have liked half the forces to be that mystical style too
I rush with profess
>protoss
You only need once zealot to 5 marines, and zurg die to my turrets
>power overwhelming
>Tal'darim is a villian
Nobody say Tal'darim is a villian, they just edgy like Alarak because of their savage culture as explained in LOTV.
>Revolution during an alien apocalypse
Why do you think he accept Valerian offer instead of held him as hostage to smoke Mengsk out? His motto is always saving people lives.
>Mengsk's plan was to get this guy who worked with Jimmy
Look at the trailer.
>They say a man never really know himself until his freedom been taken away.
That explain why Tychus willingly accept Mengsk offer.
>Send Warfield
Have you not even played the Char mission? Without Jimmy, Warfield would become hydralisk food.
>Mobious Corp funded by Mengsk
Again Valarien own the mobious corp which he say himself.
Yep, WoL makes perfect sense and it's good shit
Doesn't become contradictory and shit until HotS
It wasn't even willingly, he had a bomb strapped to his chest
>It wasn't even willingly, he had a bomb strapped to his chest
I understand that Tychus is being coerced. What I mean is that Tychus and Jimmy's relation is rather weak. Some coworker from a decade ago calls me to work on something. What if I just say no? Where's Mengsk's master plan now?
>nobody say Tal'darim is a villian, they just edgy
The game's tone did. The soundtrack turns all tense in the same way it does when Kerrigan shows up or when the night falls in the Outbreak mission.
>Why do you think he accept Valerian offer instead of held him as hostage to smoke Mengsk out? His motto is always saving people lives.
He starts his revolution out of drunken rage. He invades a planet and kills its inhabitants, all of which are innocent to his knowledge, to steal their resources to fund his revenge. Jim Raynor, friend of the protoss, doesn't even attempt a diplomatic solution. It's all "I'll be outta here soon, bye!"
Then he goes "Oh, no! The protoss are attack ME!? Guess I'm in the right to kill them, then." Rinse and repeat for the entire campaign.
Even the human lives he saves mean nothing. The Agria refugees are infected anyways and taking them to different planets just enhanced the problem. At the end of the day Jimmy either kills every person he saved, or he kills the protoss who come up to clean up after his mess, dooming a whole planet. So much for life saving.
The irony is that Mengsk made the right call by isolating the outer worlds until he had what he needed, Odins, to kill the zerg.
They ain't accountants homie, your boy who took the fall for you so you could escape from supermax ultrahell space jail is way beyond "co-worker" level.
All the Odin stuff was obviously not according to plan, but again *majority* of campaign you don't even glance at dominion forces cuz jimmy's busy advancing all the pieces together for mengsk to have his revenge on kerrigan without realizing it
>I understand that Tychus is being coerced. What I mean is that Tychus and Jimmy's relation is rather weak. Some coworker from a decade ago calls me to work on something. What if I just say no? Where's Mengsk's master plan now?
Jimmy owe Tychus for saving his ass. Tychus even say about it to make Jimmy feel guilty.
>The game's tone did. The soundtrack turns all tense in the same way it does when Kerrigan shows up or when the night falls in the Outbreak mission.
That is literally just your feeling. They never invade anyone or rather just guarding their place.
>He starts his revolution out of drunken rage.
He did not start his revolution out of drunken rage, he took 'you' during SC1 and Horner, bunch of volunteer that cut off from Mengsk after he genocide the planet with zerg. That how he manage to easily snatch Hyperion where you need at least 400 crews to operate it. He is drunk because he regret of not saving Kerrigan and letting her go alone, all these can be avoided he thought. Imagine if he did go with her, Kerrigan would not become Zerg.
>He invades a planet and kills its inhabitants, all of which are innocent to his knowledge, to steal their resources to fund his revenge.
When did he even invade a planet and kill all inhabitants? He did attempt diplomatic solution but it was shot down because of protoss prejudice view against infected.
>The Agria refugees are infected anyways and taking them to different planets just enhanced the problem.
Hanson manage to continued develop a cure for the virus.
>The irony is that Mengsk made the right call by isolating the outer worlds until he had what he needed, Odins, to kill the zerg.
Odin wss never meant for mass production it was just a prototype for thor and it is expansive, by isolating the outer worlds Mengsk literally goes back against his words during BW declaration where he shall watch and protect you which confederacy fail to do.
I thought Horner was 'you' during SC1?
'You' was a magistrate while horner was a navy pilot.
"you" were 3 different characters, or up to 6, its not clear.
>tychus
Already acknowledged from another post, but good point.
>That is literally just your feeling.
Yes, anon. I explained that the game tried to elicit the feeling from me by using audio cues previously presented during zerg attacks. I said earlier that Blizzard changed the feeling of the game from "everybody sucks lmao" to "we're the heroes saving the galaxy". No one ever comments on Jimmy going around and slaughtering innocent protoss for profit. Horner is supposed to be the conscience of the group, but he never says anything.
>revolution
Fair enough. But I would like to remind you that Jimmy was part of both genocides and only left when he realized he wasn't above being sacrificed for the "greater good"
>Imagine if he did go with her, Kerrigan would not become Zerg.
They would have both died lmao. You played Starcraft 1? Nothing special on hero units, just a small buff.
>When did he even invade a planet and kill all inhabitants? He did attempt diplomatic solution but it was shot down because of protoss prejudice view against infected.
You're mixing planets. He killed protoss for profit on Bel'shir in the mission "Welcome to the Jungle". The colonists were killed in Haven, if you chose to do so.
>Hanson manage to continued develop a cure for the virus.
I don't remember this being in the game. Is this canon? I remember her kissing Raynor in the cheek before he left. Even then, given the same timeframe, if you chose to kill the infested, she shows up as infested as well. So if Blizzard did write that, they messed up hard.
>Odin wss never meant for mass production it was just a prototype for thor and it is expansive
No. Swann builds a Thors as a knock-off. https://youtu.be/_4hI3uQ2GMM?t=176
There's literally no reason not to build more Odins when the facility was already there.
>Jimmy steals his mega mech and nuke Valhalla's facility, preventing further Odin production
Swan reverse engineer it and produce Thor which is more cheaper and faster than Odin and it was recovered by dominion and used against zerg during HOTS last mission.
>Invasion on Char would have gone if Valerian didn't gift Battlecruisers to Jimmy and if Warfield had access to OdinS (PLURAL).
When did Valerian gift BC to Jimmy? He was there as insurance and advisor incase Dominion frick up. Dominion troops are not under Jimmy commands until Warfield wounded at the battlefield.
>Nothing in the plot that really ties Jimmy as Mengsk's rival. Since Tychus knows where to find Jimmy, it's safe to assume that so does Mengsk.
Have you seen the poster in the bar? Jimmy is the face of revolution. Jimmy already say that to Tychus during bar chat if Mengsk want to kill him with ghost, Jimmy would become martyr and fuel the revolution to more extreme. Mengsk first need to tarnish his reputation but of course Tychus advice Jimmy that even Mengsk has a limit.
>Jim and Sarah have been quiet for the last six years.
Dominion were building up troops they lost in Char and assert it control in terran space.
Jimmy were gathering volunteer where colonies were abused by dominion which is where he meet swan after saying goodbye to the protoss.
Kerrigan saw the vision of overmind and decided to investigate just like Zeratul did when he see Overmind memory.
Protoss was forming Daelaam which reject Conclave teaching and bestow Artanis as Hierarch.
>But Tychus is still working for Arcturus. Junior lied?
Tychus did explain himself that he met some egghead that pay him good money if he steal the artifacts when he got out from jail. So the artifact is a side mission while killing Kerrigan is his main objective. That why he got pussy out when there only two artifact left to steal and suggest Jimmy take the money and run because he did not want to betray Jimmy while want to enjoy more freedom.
Jimmy didn't deserve Tychus, name a bigger bro in all of videogames
>Jim and Sarah
Could have killed Jim at the beginning of the rebellion instead of going for propaganda.
Kerrigan wasn't a problem and might not even be one. She let him live, so why go after her? It's a liability.
>Tychus
I'm not talking about his point of view, I'm talking about both Mengsks and why the hell they would be working with Jimmy.
>art direction
I agree.
>balance
I don't understand. The suggestion for your complaint that protoss is too micro-heavy is to make it MORE micro-heavy?
>Protoss should have the best options to retreat or speed up their units because of how expensive they are.
>force fields
>stasis wards
>recall
>Terran should have expendable strong units for shock and awe tactics and raids as well as strong as frick defense. They should be like a slow grinder renforcing and siege positions
Frick, no! I say this both for playing as and against terran. Turtle mech was cancer and I hope it never makes a comeback.
>Starcraft lives off its ladder
Nope. Co-op. https://youtu.be/XehNK7UpZsc?t=117
SOVL
His motives make even less sense.
>"How do I prove I am better than my father?"
>"I know I will risk trillions of lives by refusing to ask for the Emperor's help on this imperial matter!"
How emotionally old IS he?
And he'd have to be lying. No way Tychus just happens to be his dad's Manchurian candidate by coincidence.
Tell you what. Why don't you explain to me Valerian's plan and then Arcturus's plan. And see if they had no better alternatives? Arcturus is a smart guy enough to figure out that the Confederacy was behind the zerg attacks and Valerian is smart enough to figure the importance of the artifacts out. These are not stupid people.
The next major RTS won't fail if it's a good game. That's the issue. Developers keep making shit games then blaming the audience for not wanting to play it.
Attempting to criticize the whole Tychus situation in WoL doesn't make sense because you aren't given enough information to determine if it's a plothole or not
There's several games being played by amon/narud, mobieus, valarian and mengsk you don't really know what each party knows about the situation
>SC2 is great and needs nothing fixed here for a good game
Competitive side needs some cleaning because of the "high apm=much gooder better+1" idea which leads to a lot of busy work.
SC2 campaign as balanced around blatantly overpowered unit upgrades.
Which was a shame because I love base building but it only ever gives you so much space for it.
The LotV coop could have been a lot better if the missions weren't so structured as well. No real room for style or risk you just rush resources and deathball.
>he game would benefit a lot if it had more starting workers
Maybe that's controversial but I think this is a bad idea. I actually like the build up phase in RTS games, I don't like how fast it is in SC2 with both that as well as the resources depleting more quickly. I get why they made it like that but I think it's annoying.
I agree with the level design part though, while the campaign in WoL is actually generally pretty fun it does lack some classic "build up an army and go kill the enemy base" kind of missions, they are always based around some gimmick. Like they thought classic RTS level design wasn't good enough or something. One thing SC2's campaign does better than BW is having a difficulty setting, as BW is just way too easy as it is.
Overall though I think my problem with SC2 is that I just don't like the units and how the game feels compared to BW. It genuinely feels soulless.
what is fun about building up in starcraft? you're literally just waiting for stuff to build, you aren't making decisions
There is a lot of decisions with regards to build orders, scouting, rushes, etc in BW. Also I like to design my base layout and make it look aesthetic, don't judge me.
>There is a lot of decisions with regards to build orders, scouting, rushes, etc in BW
Not in single player
>Also I like to design my base layout and make it look aesthetic
lol
A lot of the gimmicks were really fun at least on the first playthrough
I can't think of any missions in WoL where I wasn't having fun because they kept it fresh every time
I can think of a bunch of sc1 and brood war missions where they felt pretty samey and "not this shit again..." so for me it was an all around improvement
Different strokes, I guess. The only SC1 missions I don't like are the instalation ones, and I guess the tutorial "build 8 mehrines lmao" missions but those don't count.
That's a theory but I don't think it was ever confirmed, iirc the only SC1 "commander" that had their fate confirmed was the Cerebrate, which was killed by Kerrigan as she "no longer needed it" (which is funny considering how stupid her strategy is in 2; if you think about it all of her success in SC1 really was because of that 400 IQ literal giant brain doing the hard work for her).
Maybe sc1 missions are more fun if you git gud and start learning build orders and shit so you can go play multiplayer
But you can have tonnes of fun with sc2 missions even as a shitter which pure base building can't provide (assuming you set game to very easy)
I despised how game speed was tied to difficulty.
I tried to cheese some achievements on lower difficulties and it was so irritating to watch the game drag out for ages.
I only have fun playing SC2 on Brootal myself. Meanwhile in SC1 I just like to frick around. Why yes I will mind control a drone and and build up through the entire Zerg tech tree. Why? Because I can. It's a very comfy game, same as Warcraft 2 and 3.
Well I mean you're talking repeat playthroughs right, I only fully played through the game once so I had a great time.
I'm sure some of the level gimmicks become annoying if you do repeat playthroughs because that's always the case with that kind of design
But it was fun the first time anyway
I like the gimmicks, but I'd like to have them ON TOP of the base Brood Wars design instead replacing it. I can finally produce from multiple buildings from a single selection and there isn't a mission that needs to last long enough for that to happen. It only happens to me on Brutal in defensive missions because I can't rush them or it gets too hard to do it.
As for the lower worker count, it's OK during the first playthrough, but then it just becomes tiresome. Also, tiresome for ladder games.
>They ain't accountants homie
Fair enough. I stand corrected. But you don't spend a lot of time going after the artifacts either, you have four missions going after them. And Mengsk could have easily sent his own troops after that. Instead of funding rebels via Mobius, he could have funded his own troops.
>but it was Valerian's money
Makes even less sense. Why would the prince fund public enemy #1 under his dad's nose instead of just telling dad about the artifacts and let the big guns do it? The plot keeps bending over to fit Jim.
>spend 6 years and quadrilions building factory for mega mech
>enemy ruins the whole facility
>it's ok because they are making a cheap knock-off
>now my enemy has access to top-tier weaponry
Is this supposed to be good?
>When did Valerian gift BC to Jimmy?
?t=63
>Valerian: Fortunately, our new Minotaur class Battlecruisers should be able to survive the fields long enough to destroy the generators.
Also, Medivacs when Kerrigan goes after Mobius.
>martyr
Use a ghost to kill Raynor during zerg attack on Mars Sara. The end. Further proving that people have to unite under a banner to survive against a greater threat. Use a psy emitter again. He's done it before. TWICE! And he's gotten away with it, too!
I dont even remember if mengsk knew about the artifacts tbh, I only remember his son saying everything was done of his own initiative.
Also Valerian literally explains his motives to you, and mengsk doesn't care because he wants Kerrigan dead above all else.
Tbh it doesn't sound very fun to watch, even the only parts about competitive starcraft I like watching are those little 30 second clips of someone getting outplayed or fricking up bad, not the whole match
I'll just stick with turtling against AI for fun kek
Winning in starcraft is better than crack. Sc2 has the highest skill ceiling in a game I've ever seen, and it's so fast paced that if you blink you die, so the adrenaline runs the entire fricking time. Zvz makes my dick hard
>>Tbh it doesn't sound very fun to watch
Go watch some T90 casts, i would also recommend "low elo legends", it's the extreme opposite. Games between 60 years old boomer that dont even know what the word "meta" means.
I dont understand how people play at the bronze level. Like I see replays and its just minutes of idling at a time? I get being slow but holy shit half the time they're fricking afk
Some people just play to relax, not to win, its the only way i can rationalize that. I remember an interview with a guy called "the wall" that he tried to win every single game by building walls around his enemy; when he was asked about his motives he answered "i want to win by doing this, if i win by any other means its not really fun".
Kino level
>nonsensical topography and conviently placed resources in
SC2 minerals and gas are perfectly placed for maximum mining efficiency. Many levels in SC1 or BW have random fields of minerals and geysers that are too far from your CC
Just make Warcraft 4. Less units and buildings + hero system is just going to have far wider appeal to the average person. t. weekly play WC3 and BW to this day
WarCraft IIII
t. doesn't understand how roman numerals work
Your right, it's Warcraft VI
no dumbass its IIIIIIX
Do you?
>IIII
>IX, not VIIII
????
way to make me hate traditions even more
SC2 is unironically perfectly fine. BW nostalgia morons think SC2 is bad because you don't spend 95% of the game fighting against the horrible UI and worst unit pathing of all time. RTS just isn't a popular genre anymore and it has nothing to do with the quality of the game.
> RTS just isn't a popular genre anymore and it has nothing to do with the quality of the game
Well that's not quite true. Dune 2 clones are (and always have been btw) unpopular because they're simply an inferior, fundamentally flawed genre.
And Age of Empires 2 is an inferior product to other RTS like Rise of Nations but people still play it. The thing is RTS are now just niche and they will survive if somehow they manage to build a small and strong community.
It's a fun game, but it's not as good as warcraft, or starcraft
They are different breeds, you cant compare RTS between breeds tbh. I havent given it a lot of thought but its clear that Supreme Commander (Planetary Anhiilation etc), Red Alert (westwood games), Company of heroes, Ground Control (World in Conflict etc), Ageo of Empires (Rise of Nations, Empire earth) and finally SC (warcraft) cant be compared between them because they are all very different; even though we put them all under the RTS umbrella.
I'll just Japanese castles and only spawn samurai and fully leveled gun men your dead.
Watch some high level AoE 2, its as complex as SC or WC3
I made half of those wc3 vids. I rushed with night elves
Isn't high level AoE2 just whoever has better/closer starting resource spawns so whoever reaches castle age first wins because it's been so thoroughly optimized?
I'll just enjoy being a sitter that tuetled against Ai in campaigns building walls out of castles for fun
no
Nope, it's kinda like high level Counter Strike. It's about who has better aim until everybody has perfect aim, then it's about strategy and positioning. Top tier AoE II players don't make mistakes in the early game so it's not about that anymore.
Go back to plebbit. CS is for gays
I havent played CS since source, that doesnt mean im ignorant of it. I was just making a point on how games change once the players have perfected their use of game mechanics to the point its no longer a variable.
I can't believe how fricked up battle net is now. It's a fricking joke
Nobody's made an RTS that isn't worse than 10-15 year old titles since SC2.
Nobody's made an RTS that tries to innovate in the genre since SupCom1.
The genre is dead, just like all genres that don't have massive normie appeal. Even the nerdy titles that have managed to survive, like 4X, have done so through normie-appeal, with e.g., the civilization series being vastly inferior now than it was 20 years ago. And you can run that 20 year old title on your 20 year old laptop, while the modern title makes your desktop somehow overheat through its cancerous engine.
I already tried, I'm not a team or resources though, and I don't have IP lol.
https://pricklypeargames.itch.io/cold-itzler
I'm still waiting on that one Gamedev anon to make his Diablo 1-like game.
that would be worthwhile, I spend a lot of time cloning games that I used to play.
Just remembered the name of the game and the dev's name.
Game: Beezlebox
Dev: Shodanon
(last I spoke with him was mid-2018, so that may have been hotwheels-chan)
https://shodanon.itch.io/beelzebox
Oh shit I know that guy lol (or at least I know one of the Perepeteia devs), we had a short chat last weekend. I'll let him know it's missed. I made that RTS while blizzard was getting cancelled, and I did factorio same deal, it's a good way to parasitically get traffic.
Dude, small world. Tell him to respond to the email I sent him. I need that itch scratched something fierce and "The Hell 2.0" can only be played so much.
Tower of kalamari or whatever it’s called? Other than the blatant programmer art, it’s pretty cool.
Tell my wife I'm dead
thank you for reminding me how much fun I had doing these lines with my friends and family
https://vocaroo.com/1eCqg2dckwTR
Make it edgier and less cartoony, basically give it some soul
WoL had more soul than any rts made since then
That's like saying D3 had more soul than any ARPG made since, which is true but it's still too soulless
Witch doctor is cool as frick, could d3 have been better? A thousand times yes
Was it soulless? Not by a long shot, the art team knew what they wanted and knocked the feeling of exploding a goatmans head or melting him with poison out of the park
It's absolutely soulless artstyle-wise compared to D1 and D2. Everyone was clamoring for it to be less colorful because it just looks like a WoW ARPG instead of a Diablo ARPG.
>everyone
You mean those 3 gays on deviantart?
Grimdark doesn't equal soul you muppet, otherwise now d4 has more soul than d3 which is blatantly false
Expand unit control from 12 to 40 or 50
Improve pathing
Add neutral creeps
Better graphics
Done
just like the first one but with better graphics, i guess?
Mechanically SC2 is the best RTS ever by a wide margin, I'd just change the story to more grimdark like BW was
Story-wise:
>Duran is actually the bad guy, he's not some lackey working for a giant space squid
>hybrid units are strong, but what really needs to set them apart are really strong boss-like units that can tank an entire squad of 200+ supply of units, to cement how dangerous they are
>Kerrigan is angry because hybrids can resist infestation, and affect her psionic control over the swarms
>she wants to kill them so she alone can rule the universe
>Jim wants to kill Kerrigan and doesn't cuck out like a drunkard
>joins up with some competent UED remnants and Confederate loyalists
>they join up with Artanis and the Golden Armada
>terran+ protoss team up like buddies to kill the zerg and the hybrid
>last mission of the game ends in a 3 way all out war, with Kerrigan and Duran vying for control of a Xelnaga artifact, Ter+protoss get it first and activate it, killing both Duran and severely wounding Kerrigan
>Jim walks up to her fatally wounded corpse
>pulls out his gun
>"this one's for Fenix"
>BLAM
>roll credits
Gameplay-wise:
>no more a+move deathblobs, limit unit counts. Allow the player to control an unlimited amount of any one unit, but you can't control them all simultaneously. For example, you can control 50 tanks, but you can't control a tank and a marine at the same time unless it's under 12 units or something. Something to force the player to strategize, instead of encouraging a+move blobs. The idea probably wouldn't work out, and would likely result in blob combat anyway, so it's still something that needs working on
>more environmental interactions, IE gates that can be closed and opened, hills that can be destroyed, rivers that can be clogged and drained to make stable ground
>possible introduction of naval units
>add the hybrids as a fourth race
You know, the more I think about it, the more I just want the game to be like Supreme Commander.
Nerf Pr*toss and Z*rg.
First of all, I ensure the team is fresh & the ideas are fash.
Step 2? Well lil israelite boy, step two is making a kino game.
You just play as the UED genociding every Dominion, Protoss, and Zerg homosexual in the cluster
Imagine talking about the plot of SC2 as if SC2 and SC1 even take place in the same universe. Jimmy doesn't go from wanting to kill Kerrigan more than he's wanted anything in his life to wanting to do the exact opposite. It's literally a different setting with a similar-looking coat of paint.
>Jimmy doesn't go from wanting to kill Kerrigan more than he's wanted anything in his life to wanting to do the exact opposite
People do shit like that all the time
Of all the gripes I've seen over SC2 the one I never understood is why people get so hung up over Jimmy's death threat.
It's very unclear how much of Kerrigan is still her and what's just the new monster-her. What is clear is that the transformation did some wild shit to her brain and now murder is basically a priority.
Jim's been on a bender for half a decade and was (presumably) beaten down into a hole by Mengsk. After a while like some fantasies about getting your girlfriend back by magically turning her human again might come up now and again.
And then his old pal Zeratul shows up with a funny crystal and tells him that not only can he turn her human again but if he doesn't the universe is going to be wiped out.
Shitty writing aside, that's a pretty solid reason to stop wanting to kill someone.
You don't need any reason beyond
>sure my ex killed zillions of people
>but DAMN those breasts
He let 2 whole planets die without caring but the moment his gf was in danger it was game on
She's that toxic ex you just can't get over, you swear you'll kill her to her face and 30 seconds later you're making out in the shower
>being drunk for a while is a pretty good reason to want to marry the person who killed all your friends and destroyed the world
the worst part with idiots like (You) is you're so self-evidently moronic that it isn't possible to find the energy to even disagree, it's so moronic.
you literally have to have the mentality of a woman who doesn't care about anything other than sucking whatever dick is the biggest one in the room to let something this stupid fly
y'know, maybe that's why everything turns to shit when companies go woke. they hire so many women that everybody stops caring about anything other than gurgling wiener. and then you get modern blizzard..
shit I may have just cracked the code right here
>he doesn't understand the power Dat ass has on an emotionally compromised man
lol
lmao
Once again, she's that toxic ex gf and sure she killed zillions of people and you even screamed at her face you'd kill her, but 30 seconds later you're both making out in the shower
I just have a hard time seeing the Queen of Blades as "Sarah Kerrigan"
Blizzard, or just Metzan, corruption usually erases every trace of the person if not just their free will or control.
>turning the whole argument on it's heel to talk about how much you hate women
Bro
Your misogyny will not earn you any reddit karma here
In the end of WoL you kill Queen Of Blades as Jimmy.
Mission complete. Saving Sarah is just a bonus.
And it all plays off in LoV epilogue.
Idk but id look to create a styled perhaps cellshaded art style for the units that resembles the dirtiness/simplicity of the first game while still having 3d models. Get Matt Eulman back for the soundtrack.
Get rid of stupid shit like protoss balance is based off micro and instead make protoss units stronger and cost more but require proper unit composotion and positioning to work properly.
Zerg should not be given anything that produces units for free. Uprooting defensive buildings costs supply or just remove mobility on zerg defenses.
Im not a good designer but I think they should really look at Starcraft 1's design, the caster units and try to figure out how to create games that dont devolve into A move death balls.
Zerg game play should be based on overwhelming with tech switchs and cool battlefield control options through casters and creep.
Protoss should have devasting spells and tech that are hard to use as well as miscelanous stuff like Arbiters or Dark Archons. Units are expensive but poweful and god like under proper micro. Only race where their bio units get stronger the more they fight and get damaged. Every protoss bio unit should be a hero unit in gaining xp and leveling up rewarding players for strong micro. They should play like a spear tip or arrow like if protoss attacks you and they gain ground you are completely fricked but if they fail they kinda just fall apart or retreat easily. Protoss should have the best options to retreat or speed up their units because of how expensive they are.
Terran should have expendable strong units for shock and awe tactics and raids as well as strong as frick defense. They should be like a slow grinder renforcing and siege positions
I don't plwu sc2. I okwu scbw
Are you guys still playing? It's not like wc2 chop farms is it?
Ive been watching videos of the SC2 alpha and its surprising how voluntary it was to depart from the SC1 art style and color pallette. The original vision of SC2 was way closer to its predecessor.
Things they changed from SC1 and was objectively a mistake
1) They killed the player character, in the first game the player was an actual "commander" that got to experience the world of SC. In the sequel you are just an omnipresent entity that follows raynor and friends. Frick that.
2) The art style, SC1 had a sort of post apocalyptic/old west feeling to it, it was very popular back then (same feeling as Full Throttle or Fallout 1).
Watch the original star craft / brood war battles
what will i be looking for? Another anon said it better, the original SC had a "grimdark" aesthetic that the sequel completely lacked.
Tactics
Quit being an idiot
I thought you meant the cinematics, i never mentioned the gameplay at all dont know why you would bring it up.
Yeah game play is so arbitrary
Its not arbitrary at all, i just don't care discussing about it since other people ITT are more qualified than me to talk about it. I can comment on the campaign since that's what i played the most.
I was being sarcastic
The sc2 cutscenes and hyperion interiors were kino and perfect examples of what the in-game style should have been more like
yeah, they were made back when SC2 still had the original game aesthetic.
Make a sequel to it, but hundred of thousand years away.
Characters are merely mentioned in scrolls or texts.
99% of units are redone
Do you guys think the baldurs gate commander deck 2s are good?
For magic the gathering
All of you suck ass
Yiu guys remember bnet chat channels?
Dunno but it would have at least more features than Warcraft 3, which SC2 didn't
The best were wc2 scenarios, and scbw map battles
>Scbw 1v8
Im in
>claws of attack +3
>features
Wc3 is a godawful rts. Fun campaign though.
It was fricking awesome until blizzard fricked it up
Yeah dude I loved not building an army because upkeep would rape me while I go race to fight npcs to see who can get the better items first. Fricking heroes are so gay and I'm glad they died at wc3
All you needed was a few wizards and a few fodder. Thank God the Genova convention didn't expand into online warfare
>not building an army because upkeep
Then the other player pushes and destroys you because he did break upkeep and did actually built an army. Sounds like you don't like the game because you are bad at it.
Nothing. SC despite having a great story, killed RTS by turning it into a clickfest about reaction times. SC is a harder fighting game, not RTS.
>Me and Kerrigan makes trillions of zerg babies
>the end
Kerrigan isn't even the best girl in her own game
you shut your prostitute mouth, nobody is better than the queen of blades in scbw.
I believe in German fighter pilot supremacy
>SC1 ends with Kerrigan finishing off all her enemies and Artanis swearing he'll get revenge on her for killing a bunch of Protoss dudes
>SC2 ends with Artanis literally kneeling before MarySueigan who has become a literal God to save the universe
Fricking lol
shut your heathen mouth sc2 isn't canon. scbw kerrigan is the best kerrigan and the queen of blades and the universe
>It was just prank bro, I not evil anymore.
We don't talk about HotS or LotV or anything blizzard made after 2008
It never happened
When she had to ascend the frozen throne of course
After wc3 I started playing a lot of homm3 again
>thank god we freed Kerrigan from the zerg now we can end them once and for all
>there must always be a zerg king...........
It's so fricking moronic at every level
Nah that was simply human hubris
>test subjects??? Frick yes!
I mean that too but also
Oh God my man was kidnapped I better turn back into a zerg so I can go kill another hundred million people even though he ostensibly died to free me from the zerg
Yeah, jumped the shark, that was the turning point in the campaign for me
I understand she thinks her mans is dead and wants revenge, but come the frick on way to spit on his grave.
It was like three missions in too goddamn.
They managed to top that with lotv killing off zeratul by the first mission too
Shut the frick up blonde Kerrigan is a shit.
warcraft 3 is a better game than starcraft brood war in literally every single ways and i'm tired of pretending it's not
Nah frick off. Heroes are the gayest shit of all time
they're the best part of wc3 doofus
If I wanted to fight npcs so my death knight can get a town portal scroll for 20 minutes I'd just play the fricking campaign lmao
To be fair I don't know how high level wc3 is played these days I'm just shitposting because the entire concept of creeping is the most anti rts thing I've ever heard of.
I used to think the same as you until I actually decided to get good at WC3 and found out it's fricking brilliant. The point of creep camps is that they are meant to be something the players fight over, not so you can ignore each other and play pve. Instead of passively creeping you can harrass your enemy, steal creeps from the enemy's side of the map so they can't level their second hero, even go invisible and steal an item from right under their noses. You can genuinely tell a player is good just from how he approaches creeping. There's actually a lot of strategic depth to it.
I agree, but SC had its niche of being a macro-game as opposed to a micro-game as in WCIII.
Obviously, some people liked the macro style more, as it crushed the numbers of WCIII for most of its lifetime.
Different strokes for different Korean folks.
Bw is better than wc3
They fricked up wc3 so bad
It is, but i prefer the science fiction setting. I wish they had gone the Warcraft III route gameplay wise in SC2
Focus on improving ground textures, then a bump to animations (have to keep god tier animation for later at $5)
Units with different kind of attacks, armor gets messy
Every 5 kills a unit receives a minor upgrade
rollback netcode? only to cover 2 actions per second
Pros (it´s blizzard´s fault) fricked the game...just look at some tournaments, the sim cities are awful
oh no...he listened to his wife, as far as i know the canadian players, except gypsy, are from the based part of Canada
>rush
Not only is it a good band, but it's a good tactic
I would make a Total War like campaign system where I can basically play as any faction with differen goals but also play the RTS on the field.
Make saving Kerrigan a convenient asset in defeating Amon but with severe diplomatic penalty or some kind of political setback.
Make the UED a playable again.
Make Amon's forces playable.
Capitalize on the redneck cyberpunk feeling it had before instead of hilly billy garbage love story.
Or just delete amon and make Kerrigan the badguy
Amon was already implied in bw
as this anon has pointed out.
Just make the Xel Naga regular ass aliens, goddamn. Or just fricking ignore it because every time I think about angel Kerrigan having a beam struggle with the devil my eyes bleed
This is a real death knight, and his Buddies are goblins
Too...Much...SOVL
I still cannot believe that the vulture has NEVER had a cabin. I used to see the guy as colored panels for the cabin.
Raynor sucks zerg dick
When I was a kid I tohught the front color thingy between the two metal pieces was the wienerpit. Like a jet without wings
Same, it just makes sense where it's positioned.
It was always a space motorcycle to me that lobbed grenades
For me I never realized the fins on BCs were actually missiles. Just thought they were stabilizers or whatever.
Wait what...
Watch your back
Those things on the wings are clearly missiles. See the... fletching? On the back?
I remember one of the earlier SC books talking about the vulture having a cabin so you’re not alone.
>zerglings have human hands
>defilers have a literal trollface
>turrets have a dude spinning on them
you were suprised by that?
behold
the vomit trooper
why does it spin
I READ YOU """SIR"""
OH IS THAT IT?
Death knights should be the opposite of paladins. I don't understand why the alliance has them. Just like belfs. The alliance rejected the high elf archers.
I'm trying to say something cool here, and you keep being a homosexual
>wanting to frick Kerrigan
What if you were fricking her in one of those evol chambers or hives and as you're about to climax you get a glimpse of the outside through an orifice opening (since Kerrigan basically controls all zerg and can do this easily to a structure), and you saw a Zergling staring right at you? As you climax in Kerrigan?
hot
>we're making more zerglings lil fella
>Make eye contact as you nut
>Assert your dominance
>For the swarm, lil' fella
>amon
>a secret behind the curtain character
>funds shady race mix researches
>uses his agents to manipulate races and cause in fighting
>suddenly turned into LE BAD cape shit garbage tier villain
Blizzard got punished for being open about ~~*them*~~
>all of your shit belongs to us
rip muds and custom scenarios
>funds shady race mix researches
hybrids are supposed to be stronger though
>Play Terran campaign/skirmish/multiplayer
>plays
Reminder that the UED are the good guys.
>Earth Terrans never expanded
>THIS SECTOR OF THE UNIVERSE IS THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE SO THE STORY STAYS HERE
>Protoss are supposed to be space conquerors
>gets dabbed on by zerg and terran
>Terrans of the Koprulu sector are 10000 years behind Earth Terran's tech
>still be able to go toe to toe against Protoss and Zerg
>Zerg
>Kerrigan just spawns billions of these aliens from her c**t and manages to overpower everything else
>built in grenade launcher
You guys aren't very smart
it plays like Dawn of War, and Company of Heroes
forming groups of units spearheaded by a hero unit, who has all the abilties of individual units on his person, ect
i wish they would make Jim straggle a bit more
he went from
>i will kill you b***h
to
>we have to save her
in a whim
i get that kerigan supposed to be an only hope and all
but wait till he gets on char hellbent to kill her and then zeratul shows up to convince him
you can even have a bro final mission with the protos ally
fixing hots is harder, in my opinion its the worst campaign both in level design and the story
i would say let her keep her human form and not let her loose every mission
make her create cerebrates again to keep brood obedient or use psi emitters on queens
Lotv is stupid because it goes way too big for its own good
we kill hybrids left and right questioning why should we be afraid of them
make them fricking scary
and spear of adun is dumb you should teleport as much protos as you need instead of a nexus and 5 probes
story however i dont know how to fix mostly because hots need to be rewriten
Nah Jim is fine, he's emotionally unstable and thirsting for Dat ass
HotS is really hard to fix because the final setup for WoL was dezergifying Kerrigan
Off the top of my head you could have the xel'naga appear at the start of the campaign ready to frick shit up and you play the xel'naga commander, eventually you coerce Kerrigan to ally with you because you need to hunt down the final bad guy and she's still a juiced up psionic
Then LotV basically everyone gets mind controlled including the xel'naga, maybe Kerrigan dies in the first mission and the protoss have to figure out a way to prevent the end of all life as we know it without a prophecy to save or guide them
You sure you want to say that +
The carrier distraction is a good one. Nobody playes this anymore, so I'm perfectly fine with giving away tactics.
make co-op mode right away and then focus on that more
it's the best mode in SC2 and I'm upset that they only added it when the game was already dying and then abandoned it
Frick yeah, still wanted a Tosh commander for so long now.
That would be because all the sc2 devs were forced onto heroes of the storm and then slowly left blizzard
>they stole fan made sceneros, and made shit
Pathetic
>no one can see me
making Kerrigan vengeful is kind of stupid
she could've killed Mengsk in brood war when she was evil
and now that she became zerg voluntary her only desire is to kill him
It's because she thinks he killed Jim.
There's many things in HotS that are fricking stupid but the Mengsk focus isn't nearly the worst of it
She clearly addresses Jim in WoL multiple times. Personally I think she wants to kill Mengsk BECAUSE MENGSK WANTS TO KILL HER AND EXPLOIT THE ZERG!!!
She's not really that interested in killing Mengsk in WoL though. She's just looking for Xel'Naga artifacts and doing generic evil on the side.
btw why does she looking for them?
so we cant reverse her? or to hunt xel'naga?
why wouldn't she at least try to cooperate again?
She's puppeted by Amon in WoL. Now, if you're asking why she's opposing Narud (aka Duran), who is also working for Amon and also looking for the Xel'Naga Artifacts, then you're getting close to the actual answer: they didn't know what they were doing with Kerrigan in WoL and were making shit up as they went
No, Kerrigan is not puppeted by Amon in WoL. Jim is.
well Jim succeeded
so Amon plan was kind of shit
But Jim's success was Amon's plan succeeding. Don't you understand how Tzeentch works?
When Jim used the artifact to make Kerrigan human, Amon was winning.
then why zeratul didnt stopped that?
Jim is figuratively puppeted by Amon, in the sense that he's tricked into doing what he wants. Queen of Blades is literally under his control.
No she wasn't. That is moronic. Why would Kerrigan steal the artifact from Narud. Though I agree that Jim was only being puppeted by Amon through Moebius Corp and the contracts.
I don't know and was never got an answer. But Zeratul only shows up once in WoL, then sticks around in HotS to make Kerrigan Zerg again. Perhaps it's a "If you didn't make her human she would have died and then everyone would have died" thing.
Amon retroactively made WoL, sc1 and BW worse with this kind of throw the tracks down while driving the train tier writing
I could not get over the fact that Metzen had the money and resources to plan and write the plot over three games and still fricked it up by producing a product that felt like winging it game by game.
Few writers get the chance to have three fricking guaranteed games/seasons to write a plot but he did and just fricked the dog not only for Starcraft but for every property under Blizzard. All those video clips of him smirking at Blizzcon autists who understood the lore better than he did it's just fricking awful.
If gaming had paid historians Blizzard would be studied in literature as how to frick up everything despite having the most opportunity in the history of paid fiction.
It's simply because happy people don't make good art, which is why coked out batshit crazy young metzen made so much cool shit but then the moment he mellowed out it was over
I might agree with you about happy people not being able to make GREAT art, but good art can easily be the product of money and time resources. You pay people to storyboard, map the plot, plan which points you have to it - it's no different than constructing a house. There has never been anything soulful about the process but the process is important to make the soul express itself. The only part of the proper process that was competently executed was in the graphic assets of Starcraft but the lore just went to fricking shit. I feel really fricking bad that the voice actor for Kerrigan was replaced because she was really good but they got the hottest sci-fi b***h in the business at the time to replace her - that's the result of competence despite being soulless.
The more batshit insane the artist is, the more soul leaks straight into the work
If rhey don't care you can instantly tell
>I could not get over the fact that Metzen had the money and resources to plan and write the plot over three games and still fricked it up by producing a product that felt like winging it game by game.
To be fair blizzard always winged it. They would make stuff up as it came along, that is why WC 1 2 and 3 are all quite different with some retcons. Its not bad, the stories are still fun, but it is important that SC2 started from a blank slate, it is not like metzen already had a sequel planned out storywise.
I get the feeling metzen changed and his tastes changed with him. Angsty grimdark metal shit wasnt his style anymore. He couldnt be bothered to try and maintain the same tone, and seeing how they would change things up between sequels he just figured he could make up new shit. It doesnt help he constantly writes the same story.
I understand that art starts as you just winging it. And the success depends on a lot of luck. But the right thing to do once you stumble across something that works is to sit down and codify why it's a success because you really don't want to leave up to chance to the circumstances of (being in jail/being coked out/just broke up/death) re-inspiring you again. There are incredibly few examples of just letting the artists just off the leash without any real oversight and even then there are signs of decay because no boss or editor or governing body is there to keep shit in line.
I think a good example to explore the usefulness of structure and the failure of lack of structure is South Park. Now, South Park IS just the guys winging it every week, episodes are sometimes finalized a few hours before air. They were able to keep this up but at some point they forgot the characterization of the characters. At no point did they plan some kind of broad arc of the characters and now the show is a fricking mess of caricatures when the genius just got too tired. The WoW episode, often cited as the best episode ever, wasn't actually going to get released because they thought it was so fricking bad. But their editor, the one lady who was the actual person doing the difficult thinking insisted that it was getting broadcast. They alone couldn't see what someone else in the room can see. And that's the fricking problem with Blizzard because it really felt like nobody above, beside, or below him was there to scream at fricking Metzen that they were ruining this shit. They just let him go because he was the golden goose but nobody can fricking lay golden eggs forever. This is why editors are so fricking important, they actually have to sit down and fricking THINK while the creatives go off and ride rollercoasters all day.
>Amon needs the artifacts to activate and absorb zerg energy and come back
>Kerrigan wants to stop that
>If Jimmy just sat at home, none of this shit would have even happened
mfw Jimmy was the bad guy all along!
The only thing Jim did was, uh, he, um, he stole the Odin and caused a rebellion that got Mengsk dethroned r-right? Oh and I guess he killed a couple Taldarim.
Being horny for your batshit crazy toxic (genocidal) ex gf is a hell of a drug
Supposedly she already knows what the Xelnaga artifacts do and who they are for (but she's not telling Jim cause he hurt her feelings). It could explain why she doesn't seem to care about Mengsk but we don't really know what happened between them, but the Odin was created to stop the Zerg soooo...
let artosis make it
>Not only leaving Korea, but moving to fricking CANADA
wait what.
Did you not read my post?
wait, why
wait how?
artosis is moving to canada from korea because he has 4 kids and they don't want to raise them like literal bugmen in a korean city. so instead, they decided to become bugmen in eastern Canada
how do DTs work? shouldn't the psi blades be visible?
Haha imagine if Protoss couldn't figure out how to make the armour turn invisible so DTs had to walk around naked hahaha ewww haha
>tfw you realize the hatchery's "mouth" is an anus
Don't care still putting my dick in it.
How do Protoss procreate?
literal mindfricking, i guess
WoL is awesome
HotS is disappointing and easy af
LotV is great and challenging
Epilogue is beyond disappointing, basically a fanfic
When a fan makes a fanfic it's because they love the subject. The same cannot be said about the Epilogue.
>apm base race arthritis simulator
why do boomers and bugs love this shit so much compared to arena shooters/fighting games?
Who has the fattest ass, Kerrigan, Nova, or that Medic?
You
Zagara
In the 90s everyone thought SC2 was going to be Blizzard's next big project after W3. Everyone was dissapointed when WoW was announced. No one wanted an Evercrack clone.
People speculated the protoss-zerg hybrids would be added as a fourth playable race, making the game's 4-side balance more akin to W3's than Brood War.
There was also speculation the was would go to Earth, since the UED proved it was only a hop, skip, and jump away.
Wow was fine, blizzard also worked on SC ghost and purchased the diablo studio. So they werent just making RTS. Especially back when games were easier to make so jumping from genre to genre wasnt as difficult. WOW was set up to be a fairly minor game that could compete with everquest, not be the landmark title it would end up being.
>since the UED proved it was only a hop, skip, and jump away.
Didnt it require the UED fleet years of FTL flight in cryosleep to get to the korpulu sector?
To be honest I never really knew what they were planning with both hybrid and UED. The hybrid were connected to the xelnaga and were perfect beings so they would be OP as frick. The UED also was supposed to be OP. And if they sent out a more serious force they couldve raped everyone.
nova
>nova
prove it
Retconning past lore with each new plot point introduced is the only way Blizzard knows how to write.
STARCRAFT
>terrans are lost-in-space
>their ships flew until their engines burnt-out
BROOD WARS
>the UED have been watching the whole time
>as soon as they saw aliens they sent a fleet
All units are to scale. Battlecruisers orbit planets. Tens of thousands of marines in cities, massive swarms of mutalisks. Buildings crumble. Cities turn to glass. Massive factories building vehicles on Omega scales.
Need to zoom in and out, no homosexual supreme commander icon simulator.
Why do you hate Zerg so much?
Why u say that? Zerg would be amazing, millions of zerglings swarming planets. Use micromanagement to funnel them properly and flank. A million zerg could be stopped if not micromanaged.
>Nydus pop out from underground
>Brood lord and mutalisk from sky
>Droplord
Zergs are not stupid.
Imagine making units weaker and more of a swarm when the meta to SC has always been AOE attacks.
Well the game would be entirely different so metas dont matter, and metas can change by changing a 0.5 value to a 0.45
I’d like to see a total war style game set in the StarCraft/wh40k/whatever universe.
So instead of building individual homies, you build frickhueg squads of dudes. You could even keep the base building and whatnot, but just move away from the massed blobs of bullshit, and incorporate line of sight, cover, positioning etc.
It annoys me that games where that shit is in, always have stupid company of heroes capture points, since I prefer resource gathering and base building like in command and conquer and age of empires, but the actual fighting in shit like men of war, total warhammer, or company of heroes.
I guess cnc3 did come a little closer to it by making the infantry into squads, but even then, and as fricking awesome as that game is for the variety they added to multiplayer and skirmish setup, it was pretty rudimentary as far as the actual killing each other part went.
So if I was in charge, I’d make a hybrid of OG StarCraft, and company of heroes.
Sure, the Koreans would maybe hate it cos they can’t blob and rush as effectively (not that blobbing didn’t work in coh, to be fair) but it would actually move the fricking genre forward somewhat.
Either that, or I’d take the money and just make world in conflict 2 instead.
i get that you like these these of rts, but they exist already
i love my individual homies and i dont want to control my homies more accurately then one blob
so making the other game out of this one isn't a good idea nor do i like it
I can’t think of any that have squads but base building/resource gathering instead of node control.
Lemme know if there actually are any! Genuinely would be rad!
Just play DoW1? Or even 2?
Nah they had capture points.
I literally just want classic base building, but with units that favour tactics and positioning over blobbing.
Not even really big on micro with abilities and shit, more just adding cover, sight lines, destructible terrain, and squads you can reinforce and veteran etc.
Take the 33% highground miss rate and change it to -33% damage dealt, other than that change nothing.
Broodwar is basically perfect, the only other comparable game in that regard is Tetris.
I don't think you can call BW perfect when the Scout exists.
>cant play 2 zerg in 2v2s because that breaks the game
>maps need to be designed in a very specific way or zerg can rape anyone
>island maps are broken
>make terran more imba
fricking moron
SC2 is fine as it is
SC3 story wise, Jim and Kerrigan son or daughter wrecks chaos all over the galaxy.
Give me Zagara and more sexy girl monsters
Nah, give me Cerebrates and ugly disgusting zerg instead
The hell is that supposed to be, zerg don't have skin or human faces
no skin? that seems evolutionarily unfavored
I just want to play all the single player missions of 1 and 2. Anyone got a torrent? I know 2 is free but I don't want to install battlenet.
You can cut out James' moronic love for Kerrigan and WoL will be perfect
SC2 went full moron with the talking jungle zerg
The only way it could get worse is if at the end someone looks at the camera and says "at last we are truly Starcraft too"