How sad. And to think that was High A rank viability in Ubers in Gen 5 while its counterpart Kyogre was S rank. Primals were a way to prevent them from being powercreeped after the Gen 6 Weather nerf, but they're unlikely to ever return.
How sad. And to think that was High A rank viability in Ubers in Gen 5 while its counterpart Kyogre was S rank. Primals were a way to prevent them from being powercreeped after the Gen 6 Weather nerf, but they're unlikely to ever return.
groudon is still broken and top tier in ubers and vgc, you experts
To be fair, that's mainly because of Drought.
Not only makes it good support for Venusaur and Charizard (and even Incineroar), but also lets it easily override Kyogre's weather.
The legendary stats on top of that just ensure that it's picked over Ninetales or Torkoal.
If another legendary ever gets Drought (which, to be fair, might never happen) I think it'll be over for Groudon.
>to be fair, this Pokemon is mainly good because of its ability
You could say this about most any Pokemon. In your own example Venusaur, Charizard, Incineroar, and Kyogre are also all reliant on their abilities.
You could say that about most any Pokemon and you'd be right.
But I'm not just saying Groudon is reliant on its ability, but that it's not very good outside of its ability.
Chlorophyll and Intimidate are insanely common abilities, but Venusaur and Incineroar are still consistently the most common users because they have a GMax form and a wide support movepool going for them. Solar Power isn't as common, but Charizard is more used than Heliolisk for a good reason.
Kyogre not only sets rain, but is extremely primed to benefit from its own rain. It gets a 150 BP rain-boosted STAB Water Spout off of its better attacking stat, a STAB Origin Pulse that's also rain-boosted and hits both targets, and has 100% accurate Thunder. Only thing that would complete the package is Hurricane.
Groudon's ground STAB isn't boosted by the sun. Its sun-boosted Eruption works off its weaker attacking stat. Heat Crash isn't STAB, fails against Dynamaxed opponents and frankly isn't even that good against other restricted legendaries who are also really heavy. And its only other sun-boosted physical move is fricking Fire Punch. Solar Beam is a 1-turn charge, but it works off Groudon's weaker attacking stat and Groudon doesn't get Solar Blade.
Let me be clear, Groudon is not bad. Being able to be a sun setter and have legendary stats is definitely good, and that's why Groudon is used more than most legendaries and a lot more than the other sun setters.
But Kyogre gets nearly twice Groudon's usage, and Torkoal has a lot more usage than Pelipper and Politoed combined.
Like I said here
To be fair, that's mainly because of Drought.
Not only makes it good support for Venusaur and Charizard (and even Incineroar), but also lets it easily override Kyogre's weather.
The legendary stats on top of that just ensure that it's picked over Ninetales or Torkoal.
If another legendary ever gets Drought (which, to be fair, might never happen) I think it'll be over for Groudon.
>If another legendary ever gets Drought (which, to be fair, might never happen) I think it'll be over for Groudon.
Take away Drizzle, and Kyogre is still the defining water type in Ubers. It's less of an offensive threat, sure, but there is still a lot of reason to use it for what it already does.
Take away Drought from Groudon, and you have, essentially, Lando-T. Better in many ways, worse in some, but now does the same general thing.
There's a difference between a pokemon that is good with its ability, and a pokemon that's good because of its ability.
And then there are pokemon that do just fine with mediocre or minimal impact abilities. Dialga barely notices Pressure, but is still pretty okay.
>To be fair, that's mainly because of Drought.
Then how come Ninetails isn't used morre in Ubers, I'm sure plenty of people would rather frick it instead of Groudon
Using Kyurem-Black as reference...
Make it mono-Fire so it has a Stealth Rock weakness.
Remove Heat Crash, Fire Punch, Eruption, and Precipice Blades from its movepool. Maybe also Earthquake. If anything, this is going a little further than KB, who at least had Outrage, but Drought makes up for it.
Remove Swords Dance and Rock Polish so it can no longer boost.
Groudon would still be a pretty good mon in OU, probably even becoming a staple and making sun teams popular again, but it wouldn't break the meta over its knee like this.
>Shamin-Sky
Remove Serene Grace, replace it with, fukkin, I dunno, Chlorophyll, or Natural Cure. That's the only reason it was banned in the first place, it's not actually good, smoggies just reeee-d at a 60% flinch chance on a pokemon that fast. It flinches often enough to consistently break walls and stalls, so frick it.
>It flinches often enough to consistently break walls and stalls, so frick it.
You're an idiot. Stall teams are what have the least problems with Shaymin because they'll always have a consistent wall for it even if they get flinched a few times. It's offensive teams that get fricked because a single flinch could make them lose and as you said Shaymin is fast enough to outspeed all or most of your Pokemon. That speed doesn't really matter much in the stall matchup though.
This is why Shaymin is banned and Togekiss or Jirachi aren't despite them using the same flinch spam tactic since gen 4.
>Palkia
Kill coverage option to T-bolt level options or 80bp and below. drop speed to 90 so it speeds tiers with a ton of base 90 mons. Make it 75 to really kneecap it and force it to speed tier Dracovish
>Yveltal
Oblivion Wing from 75% heal to 25% heal
No more Roost
No more Knock Off
No more Sucker Punch
No more Toxic
6 points taken from Speed and put into Defense
Heavy-Duty Boots removed
Even then I think it'd still be Ubers. Yveltal is just so fricking versatile that you'd have to remove half of its movepool to make it somewhat manageable. Its massive 131/131 offenses coupled with impressive bulk and above average speed make it work as a massive stat stick with no obvious flaws. Its typing is amazing, making it the sole answer to Calyrex-S in the tier, and it is tied with Shillaboom for the strongest priority in the game.
>it is tied with Shillaboom for the strongest priority in the game.
Anyone find it fricked that No normal types barring Linoone and Arceus knows e-speed?
>it is tied with Shillaboom for the strongest priority in the game.
Not tied. It is the strongest. >252+ Atk Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus in Grassy Terrain: 136-162 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery >252+ Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 144-171 (37.7 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
The main reason Yveltal is so good is because it's such a good counter to Calyrex-S, and to a lesser extent the other strong psychics like Necrozma-DM. Removing those 2 would make it worse in Uber, but that has nothing to do with dropping it down to OU. Plus, it still has the strongest priority in the game.
I guess I'd just gut its STABs. Take away Sucker Punch, Knock Off, and Foul Play for Dark. Take away Oblivion Wing, Acrobatics, Air Slash, Hurricane, and Dual Wingbeat.
Now it has to rely on Lash Out for Dark STAB and Fly for Flying STAB if it wants to be physical. And Dark Pulse and fricking Gust to be special.
Also, remove HDB and take away Defog so that stealth rock weakness hurts it more.
I don't want to remove everything because the goal is to make it OU, not any lower.
HP 100 -> 90
Attack 150 -> 130
Defense 140 -> 120
Special Attack -> 100 -> 95
Special Defense 90 -> 80
Speed 90 -> 85
New Basestattotal is 600 and perfectly in line with other Pseudolegends
Gonna assume primal Groudon isn't a factor, but if it was I would make the superdrought reduce water damage by 66%, rather than outright have it have no effect. It obviously gets the same state decreases, and Precipice Blades is now 110 instead of 120 Basepower.
Debatably this is where we're at right now in OU in terms of powerlevel
ground/fire with no desiolate land, new water entry hazard
Remove Drought and make it an Ice type.
he said OU not ZU
No need, powercreep will do it eventually
How sad. And to think that was High A rank viability in Ubers in Gen 5 while its counterpart Kyogre was S rank. Primals were a way to prevent them from being powercreeped after the Gen 6 Weather nerf, but they're unlikely to ever return.
>How sad. And to think that was High A rank viability in Ubers in Gen 5 while its counterpart Kyogre was S rank
>meanwhile, in the actual fricking game (not fanshitficshit)
>in the more poorly balanced version of the game, things are more poorly balanced
Thanks, keep me posted.
VGC is fanfiction. 6v6 singles is real Pokemon. 4v4 doubles with legendary spam is fanfiction
>Groudon in top 10
>Fourth most used restricted
Is this supposed to make it look bad somehow? Since you went on sperging about fanfic.
groudon is still broken and top tier in ubers and vgc, you experts
To be fair, that's mainly because of Drought.
Not only makes it good support for Venusaur and Charizard (and even Incineroar), but also lets it easily override Kyogre's weather.
The legendary stats on top of that just ensure that it's picked over Ninetales or Torkoal.
If another legendary ever gets Drought (which, to be fair, might never happen) I think it'll be over for Groudon.
>to be fair, this Pokemon is mainly good because of its ability
You could say this about most any Pokemon. In your own example Venusaur, Charizard, Incineroar, and Kyogre are also all reliant on their abilities.
You could say that about most any Pokemon and you'd be right.
But I'm not just saying Groudon is reliant on its ability, but that it's not very good outside of its ability.
Chlorophyll and Intimidate are insanely common abilities, but Venusaur and Incineroar are still consistently the most common users because they have a GMax form and a wide support movepool going for them. Solar Power isn't as common, but Charizard is more used than Heliolisk for a good reason.
Kyogre not only sets rain, but is extremely primed to benefit from its own rain. It gets a 150 BP rain-boosted STAB Water Spout off of its better attacking stat, a STAB Origin Pulse that's also rain-boosted and hits both targets, and has 100% accurate Thunder. Only thing that would complete the package is Hurricane.
Groudon's ground STAB isn't boosted by the sun. Its sun-boosted Eruption works off its weaker attacking stat. Heat Crash isn't STAB, fails against Dynamaxed opponents and frankly isn't even that good against other restricted legendaries who are also really heavy. And its only other sun-boosted physical move is fricking Fire Punch. Solar Beam is a 1-turn charge, but it works off Groudon's weaker attacking stat and Groudon doesn't get Solar Blade.
Let me be clear, Groudon is not bad. Being able to be a sun setter and have legendary stats is definitely good, and that's why Groudon is used more than most legendaries and a lot more than the other sun setters.
But Kyogre gets nearly twice Groudon's usage, and Torkoal has a lot more usage than Pelipper and Politoed combined.
Like I said here
>If another legendary ever gets Drought (which, to be fair, might never happen) I think it'll be over for Groudon.
>Kyogre not only sets rain, but is extremely primed to benefit from its own rain.
Based.
Eh. To a degree.
Take away Drizzle, and Kyogre is still the defining water type in Ubers. It's less of an offensive threat, sure, but there is still a lot of reason to use it for what it already does.
Take away Drought from Groudon, and you have, essentially, Lando-T. Better in many ways, worse in some, but now does the same general thing.
There's a difference between a pokemon that is good with its ability, and a pokemon that's good because of its ability.
And then there are pokemon that do just fine with mediocre or minimal impact abilities. Dialga barely notices Pressure, but is still pretty okay.
>To be fair, that's mainly because of Drought.
Then how come Ninetails isn't used morre in Ubers, I'm sure plenty of people would rather frick it instead of Groudon
100 base speed is not enough for it to do much, it can't gamble with scorching sand safely. Torkoal at least can rapid spin and spread status.
Yeah but it has drought, and that's supposedly the main reason why Groudon is good
Truant.
It would literally be ground type slaking
-20 attack
-20 defense
-10 sp def
simple as
Using Kyurem-Black as reference...
Make it mono-Fire so it has a Stealth Rock weakness.
Remove Heat Crash, Fire Punch, Eruption, and Precipice Blades from its movepool. Maybe also Earthquake. If anything, this is going a little further than KB, who at least had Outrage, but Drought makes up for it.
Remove Swords Dance and Rock Polish so it can no longer boost.
Groudon would still be a pretty good mon in OU, probably even becoming a staple and making sun teams popular again, but it wouldn't break the meta over its knee like this.
give it slow start
Fire/Ground with Pressure, remove Rock Polish.
It is now OU.
Now that the dust has settled with nerfing Groudon into OU, let's do the same with
Kyogre
Rayquaza
Palkia
Dialga
Giratina
Ho-Oh
Lugia
Reshiram
Zekrom
Xerneas
Yveltal
Deoxys-D
Deoxys-N
Genesect
Shaymin-Sky
Darkrai
Solgaleo
Lunaala
Zamazenta
Eternatus
I especially look forward to Yveltal, since a lot of shitters don't even understand why it's so good.
>Zamazenta
Just remove Close Combat and Howl.
It's so close to OU already, just take away the one thing it actually does, and now it's just a fat stat brick.
>Howl
it doesn't get swords dance?
Dude. Go look at Zamazenta's movepool.
It's comically bad.
Meanwhile Zacian's is almost Gen 1 tier, since the only thing it lacks is Earthquake, for now.
Deoxys-D, just remove Recover.
None of the other forms use Recover anyways, so it doesn't even impact their viability.
It's still incredible for setting hazards and disrupting opponents.
>Shamin-Sky
Remove Serene Grace, replace it with, fukkin, I dunno, Chlorophyll, or Natural Cure. That's the only reason it was banned in the first place, it's not actually good, smoggies just reeee-d at a 60% flinch chance on a pokemon that fast. It flinches often enough to consistently break walls and stalls, so frick it.
>Chlorophyll
Would work well with Venusaur and any Fire Drought Setter
>It flinches often enough to consistently break walls and stalls, so frick it.
You're an idiot. Stall teams are what have the least problems with Shaymin because they'll always have a consistent wall for it even if they get flinched a few times. It's offensive teams that get fricked because a single flinch could make them lose and as you said Shaymin is fast enough to outspeed all or most of your Pokemon. That speed doesn't really matter much in the stall matchup though.
This is why Shaymin is banned and Togekiss or Jirachi aren't despite them using the same flinch spam tactic since gen 4.
>Palkia
Kill coverage option to T-bolt level options or 80bp and below. drop speed to 90 so it speeds tiers with a ton of base 90 mons. Make it 75 to really kneecap it and force it to speed tier Dracovish
>Deoxys-N
Rearrange its stats so it's actually neutral, and not just a worse Deoxys-A.
>Yveltal
Oblivion Wing from 75% heal to 25% heal
No more Roost
No more Knock Off
No more Sucker Punch
No more Toxic
6 points taken from Speed and put into Defense
Heavy-Duty Boots removed
Even then I think it'd still be Ubers. Yveltal is just so fricking versatile that you'd have to remove half of its movepool to make it somewhat manageable. Its massive 131/131 offenses coupled with impressive bulk and above average speed make it work as a massive stat stick with no obvious flaws. Its typing is amazing, making it the sole answer to Calyrex-S in the tier, and it is tied with Shillaboom for the strongest priority in the game.
Foul Play would still make it too good, you'd have to get rid of Dark Aura as well for any chance to make it OU.
>it is tied with Shillaboom for the strongest priority in the game.
Anyone find it fricked that No normal types barring Linoone and Arceus knows e-speed?
Pidgeot should get it.
>it is tied with Shillaboom for the strongest priority in the game.
Not tied. It is the strongest.
>252+ Atk Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus in Grassy Terrain: 136-162 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
>252+ Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 144-171 (37.7 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
>Ho-oh
Remove Regenerator
Remove HDB
Sacred Fire to 85 base power
Loses access to Toxic and Earthquake
The main reason Yveltal is so good is because it's such a good counter to Calyrex-S, and to a lesser extent the other strong psychics like Necrozma-DM. Removing those 2 would make it worse in Uber, but that has nothing to do with dropping it down to OU. Plus, it still has the strongest priority in the game.
I guess I'd just gut its STABs. Take away Sucker Punch, Knock Off, and Foul Play for Dark. Take away Oblivion Wing, Acrobatics, Air Slash, Hurricane, and Dual Wingbeat.
Now it has to rely on Lash Out for Dark STAB and Fly for Flying STAB if it wants to be physical. And Dark Pulse and fricking Gust to be special.
Also, remove HDB and take away Defog so that stealth rock weakness hurts it more.
I don't want to remove everything because the goal is to make it OU, not any lower.
How good would level 80 Groudon be in OU?
HP 100 -> 90
Attack 150 -> 130
Defense 140 -> 120
Special Attack -> 100 -> 95
Special Defense 90 -> 80
Speed 90 -> 85
New Basestattotal is 600 and perfectly in line with other Pseudolegends
Gonna assume primal Groudon isn't a factor, but if it was I would make the superdrought reduce water damage by 66%, rather than outright have it have no effect. It obviously gets the same state decreases, and Precipice Blades is now 110 instead of 120 Basepower.
Debatably this is where we're at right now in OU in terms of powerlevel