What does a good megadungeon look like? How do you justify them in your setting? How do you match your megadungeon layout to their justified reason for existing?
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>he thinks megadungeons need some realistic reasons to exist for verisimilitude
You don't get it. Don't try to run one.
I want a reason because their reason informs their shape. A random dungeon looks very different than a bunker or hideout, which looks very different from a dungeon that acts as a habitat for other creatures, which looks very different from a dungeon that exists as a puzzle/level system for players which looks very different from a dungeon that exists to just have your players spend their time underground/indoors.
That's the thing: everything you listed and more is a valid reason, all at once. The dungeon is a bandit hideout, it's a habitat for rare creatures, a mad wizard's puzzle, and tons and tons of other things. Is there an overarching reason? Don't make one until you've fleshed out ten minor reasons first, and then keep the big one very broad.
>reason for existing
some homie with a lot of magic power and free time, that's all you need for 99% of dungeons. What matters is what's inside of it.
And what's inside of a good megadungeon?
Wizards! No sense of right or wrong!
>Megadungeon
>Planning
Pick one
>justify
have a nice day
This is pretty much a spam thread
>This is pretty much a spam thread
I'll allow it since it isn't more AI slop.
Off the top of my head valid reasons for existing include natural formation, giant swarming animal activity (including extinct "people"), "a wizard/god did it" and combinations thereof plus others I'm sure.
If your megadungeon doesn't contain nuclear war ruins of NY somewhere between lvl 5 and 8, you fricked up big time
>How do you justify them in your setting?
Hell is an actual physical place underground, and the PCs are going to go there and kill shit.
Not ironically, the justification is magic. So it's more important to design with loops so that it's not something linear, with secret passages, treasures, etc.
Unless it's something natural, like a dungeon from an ancient civilization, I don't care too much about leaving something that makes sense
>How do you justify them in your setting?
The dungeon is unstuck in space and time. You're about as likely to fight a dinosaur as you are to stumble across a futuristic alien planet.
A wizard did it. Alternatively, it's a ruined city, or a ruined city a wizard decided to turn into a dungeon.
Have you ever played Castlevania? Have you ever wondered why draculas castle is so nonsensical? Gardens in between livrarias, caves, enormous spiraling dancing Halls etc.
There is no reason, and that is reason enough, because its a game. Same philosophy.
Or even in the manga of the image you put in this thread, why is there a jungle, than some hall that end in a huge pool and then after It comes a garden? the layout is nonsensical, because you only really need the primary reason behind the creation of the dungeon, the rest is for players to discover and reson themselves, unable to ever reach an answer.
Draculas castle safeguards Dracula, that is what matters.
>Or even in the manga of the image you put in this thread, why is there a jungle, than some hall that end in a huge pool and then after It comes a garden?
The dungeon in Dungeon Meshi was actually a large nation drawn into a pit and then compressed with parts being rearranged at the whims of a mad elf wizard after he made a wish to protect that nation and demon granted it in a twisted way.
So, exactly what he said about Dracula's castle: everything is ordered specifically to protect something.
>t. nogames
>every post is about the second question
Should've left it at "what makes a good megadungeon" tbqh. ong baka.
I play How to Host a Dungeon on a 6x8 foot sheet of paper. Then I keep playing it, and keep going, intent on eventually transforming it into a playable dungeon but then I remember that I fricking hate dungeon crawls so I just keep playing it.
>justified reason for existing
It started as an small dungeon but the different residents kept excavating time to time. So what started as a five room dungeon to hide a relic with a single guardian in the middle in the copper age ended puting Moria to shame by the middle ages.
Made in Abyss is a great example.
Behind the e-girls and fetishbait, the Abyss itself has a lot of traits that make for a great megadungeon.
>Seems to endlessly produce loot
>Bizarre supernatural phenomenon
>Creates complex lifestyles and politics in nearby areas, if not the whole world
>Ancient civilization involved
>Nobody knows why it exists, source of strange religions and beliefs
>"Curse of the abyss" prevents the mysteries therein from being easily, effectively, or reliably being revealed to outsiders.
>It seems to call people to it. May actually be alive in some weird way.
>Behind the e-girls and fetishbait,
this is the onlything thats keeping me from watching it.
Use the justify of your image OP (im going to miss that manga). They are just for fun, and for the players to map
Anime tones it down a fair bit, it's so much worse in manga.
There's a dozen ways to justify a good megadungeon, as previously explained in this thread: Sunken/underground city that's partially collapsed, ancient megastructure, a wizard did it, predatory geographical feature, cyclical disaster integrating new cities every x years, etc.
Explaining the current configuration of monsters in each part can also lead to interesting situations. Are they part of the dungeon master's forces, settlers in the massive structure, what?
Ideally, a good megadungeon has a few features:
>Each region/floor could stand as a dungeon on its own, and therefore has the features of a good dungeon
>Each floor is distinct from the rest, but close enough that you can see them being part of the same whole
>Some level of interaction and connectivity between the areas that the players can observe or do something about; perhaps the factions on floors 2 and 3 don't get along and the party can incite a conflict to soften up both sides
As for question 3, let's take the example of a decaying underground city. You can pretty easily justify any layout as "some stuff collapsed" or "monsters settling the area altered this section"
MiA is more of a hexcrawl than a megadungeon, honestly. The Abyss has many dungeon-like features, but it's ultimately a psychic, predatory region more than it is a structure.
Thank you for being the only person to address the entire OP, anon. You are pretty cool.
The only megadungeon in my homebrew setting is a giant cathedral built to honor the long dead god of madness. His cult of insane worshippers got together and just kept assembling the church higher and higher. As the weight began to be too much it would sink further in the ground and his worshippers would continue to build higher only causing it to sink further into the soft ground. Eventually the cathedral sank so far down it began to disturb the inhabitants of the underworld who began to invade from the bottom. The cultists fought with them while continuing to build further up. Eventually they were overwhelmed and destroyed. Over time the cathedral became home to various creatures and monsters before fully submerging into the Earth.
Fast forward some 2000 years and the cathedral has been forgotten to the mortal races and the ground has hardened. Now a rather large city has formed on the surface, completely unaware of the monument of evil below the surface. It wasn't until a project was undertaken to expand the sewer systems of the city that the cathedral was noticed. Masons unwittingly broke into the top level of the cathedral and unleashed evil into the city. The city guard was quick to dispatch forces to contain it and the masons resealed the entry, but now that the inhabitants are aware of the surface world again they begin to scratch beneath the surface of the city. Looking to claw their way out of their dark prison.
The fun draw of the megadungeon is that there are several groups in the city that all disagree on what should be done about the cathedral and all of them attempt to sway the party to their line of thinking. Some of the groups are sure that there must be something of incredible value down there and seek to contract the party to delve in there and retrieve it. Other groups such as the church seek to cleanse it and want no artifacts brought to the surface. No matter who the party decides to support, they will inevitably make enemies.
I really like this. I can imagine PCs breaking through into one of the uppermost reaches, the first level of the cathedral proper being balconies and walkways along the interior of great vaulting domes painted with wild frescoes, yawning blackness below.
The point of megadungeon is to show there's forces that operate on scale of time and resources far beyond the adventurers or even knights and kings. It could be reclusive lich and his tireless undead thralls, it could be ancient civilization with countless slaves, it could be mad wizard of god-like power, or hyper advanced travellers from whole another realm of existence, doesn't matter. The point is they construct on scale unimaginable to human workers and they build for purpose that may be completely alien to mankind's understanding.
Just make sure you've covered the fundamentals - where do they sleep, what do they eat, where do they shit, the rest can be padded with "vast rooms of vaguely nefarious purpose".
Literal explanation in the example you posted is "A FRICKING SORCERER DID IT"
The dungeon is simply one of the abandoned and half ruined arcologies from the age of wonders
My megadungeon started as a gold mine, due to high quality ore the miners kept digging deeper and deeper. This being a border area, with constant raids, a fortress was built to protect the entrance, similar to Predjama castle, the ore smelter was built in the top level of the mine as were the dwellings for the miners and dependants, various stores in lower levels.
As the ore ran out the minefort was mostly abandoned and the remaining inhabitants took the coin from a wonderfully diverse fantasy crime organisation which took the minefort as the base of their operations. It's a very hierarchical organisation so the lowest mooks have dwellings in the least desirable lowest levels and the boss and his lieutenants are in the top level where the windows are.
The hero party infiltrated the minefort via forgotten air shaft to the lowest level and have to work their way up to the top level.
I personally like my megadungeons to have zones. Different groups with different reasons for being underground, connected by chance tunneling, natural cave systems, direct attacks, or magic frickery. It helps me rationalize it and breaks up the monotony inherent in having a whole lot of similar things.