>Mercernary archers in ambush target the caster first since he is a fragile, high value target. >caster dies

>Mercernary archers in ambush target the caster first since he is a fragile, high value target
>caster dies
>party complains that I'm "metagaming"

Why would enemies with even a shred of intelligence stack on the barbarian or attack people at random??

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Mercenary archer you say?

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How would the mercenarys know who the caster is? Or how would they that he even is a caster?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      to be fair to OP lots of caster players walk around in robes with staves and shit
      if you see a guy dressed in, essentially, a mage uniform you're not gonna know he's probably a mage
      unless it's straight up not possible, a caster should be wearing armor while wondering the place where they get into fights or at least have some magical defenses up

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >you're not gonna know he's probably a mage
        *you're gonna know he's a mage
        I don't know how those extra words happened but I think I pissed off a wizard

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        this is the reason i have organizations in my campaign in cultist robes along with their amour kalash rifles bikes and technical trucks
        they can't identify the high value psychic if everyone looks the same
        it helps that a lot of psychic talents don't require anything verbal or somatic

        adds indimantation factor
        and scares the shit out of players if they get into fights and they don't know who caused them to spontaneously combust

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >robes
      >beard
      >pointy hat
      >talks to a pet frog
      >smells like bat guano
      Hmm I dont know maybe someone ticked them off?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fair point. Which is why no sensible caster will actually look the part.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Which one is prevented by class from just wearing the heaviest set of armor?
      >Ambush goal is to reduce enemy numbers by surprise, which target looks like they'd drop the quickest?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The concept of "class" is literally metagaming.

        Knowing that spellcasters can't wear armor might not be metagaming, it depends on why that is the case and how the characters know this information.

        If spellcasters can't wear armor because it's correct fantasy design that's just what the rules say, you're absolutely metagaming and you should be immediately banned from the table if you reference that fact as a rationalization for what you did.

        If it's common knowledge in-universe that spellcasters can't wear armor for some in-setting reason, that's fine... but ONLY if it's otherwise strange for unarmored people to be traveling with armored guards.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Caring about metagaming is cancer. You're playing a wargame, let people use strategies.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You're playing a wargame, let people use strategies.
            No, you're not. There is no wargame where one player gets to define the battleground, has unlimited points to spend on troops, has authority to arbitrate all rules callings, and can take advantage of perfect information asymmetry. Nobody would ever play that game because the advantaged player literally cannot lose unless he accepts losing as an outcome.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Option 2. Do this, but only after it becomes obvious who the caster is. Also take into account gamey situations were in real life shooting at the mage would be a poor play. For example, while a warrior is trying to gore you.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What part of an ambush dont you get

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >dressed like a wizard
      >exposed themselves as a wizard before the fight
      >someone told them who the wizard was when they hired them as mercenaries
      Pick one or more.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >They're wizard-homing rocks

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Have you tried to wave a staff at them and look keenly?
      Chant gibberingly? Throw a mysteriously colored potion?
      Specially commissioned tentacle animatronics made by a not Leo from a town a few mountains away?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      One guy is brawny, carries a bigass sword on the back and wears some heavy armor. Another guy looks like a gay, dresses like a gay, wears a ton of blingbling and carries a guitar on the back. He also sings while walking. Then, there's a chick who wears plate armor, carries a mace and a shield, and she has a religious symbol embroided on her cape. Some other athletic dude wears leather armor, has a green cloak and carries a bow and has a longsword strapped to his belt. Finally, there's a pale and skinny guy wearing no armor, who walks clumsily, carries a weird staff and has scrolls tuck in his belt. Who could be the sorcerer? Jeez. No idea.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Technically the sorcerer would not carry scrolls, a staff or look pale and skinny.
        Because of you not knowing the basic distinction between wizard and sorcerer I call you a nogame fag and ignore you

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Guys help I got in an argument today because I was talking about this thread and one of my friends challenged me to find the wizard in this picture. Which of these is a wizard? I can't tell!

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >"Shoot me, I got magnets", catches arrows with his hands while engaging in banter
        >splendid beard stash combo shows his unperturbed lifestyle, probably listens to metal music going by a little skull accessory
        >Shank ya man will reach 21 feet range by the time Archers fire a third volley
        >Hotmourne wielding rape machine took notice and is contemptuously unimpressed, doesn't even need to turn face to face, pleasant Southrend tan
        >Hobin Bad already upping the kill count as usual, will regale his friends and noble cousins with another fun combat tale

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's a trick, the wizard is invisible.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Now imagine that they are walking down the road, minding their own business. The ambush is set, who do you target first? The man with the bow is a reasonable target. Let to his own divices he'll be able to return fire, and his armor means a killing blow might be difficult once he's on guard. Same with the warrior woman. But man in the robe? He's old and feeble, probably just hired some mercs to protect him on his journey, given his age. The obvious answer is the halfing. DeHispanicable little creatures and I'll never forgiven them after one stole my donkey.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Kill the oldest one first, duh. Any old person might be a wizard and should be killed on sight. Even Critical Role practices this basic advice.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They're mercenaries, they've been told so.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >How would the mercenarys know who the caster is? Or how would they that he even is a caster?
      Maybe the mercenary already had encounters with casters, and can recognize them easily?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The DM of the campaign I just dropped constantly had enemies target me to "take out the caster" first despite me constantly describing my character as looking and dressing like a young nobleman and carrying no outward signs of being a mage. Doesn't even have a staff.

      He's one of those DM's who thinks about every resource the party has and creates contingency plans for his encounters to nerf anything we might do. It's like every enemy we fight has spent its entire life preparing for our attack. He also confused "encounters are not guaranteed to be balanced" with "encounters are guaranteed to not be balanced."

      It's like fuck man, could we just occasionally fight some goblins that are dumb cowards and not the fucking Viet Cong with magic?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Whoever hired the mercenary, gave him description of the target or a sketch

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The guy who hired them would give the description. Check the aura to be certain.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      to be fair to OP lots of caster players walk around in robes with staves and shit
      if you see a guy dressed in, essentially, a mage uniform you're not gonna know he's probably a mage
      unless it's straight up not possible, a caster should be wearing armor while wondering the place where they get into fights or at least have some magical defenses up

      Caster's fault for not disgusing his role at all. Generally, when you get to human enemies, that's when I like to ramp up the danger level.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You know how wizards are, with their pointy hats and long beards constantly shouting about detect magic and that he wants to go to bed to recharge his spells

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Spells have a verbal and somatic component.
      More specifically, the verbal component is explicitly loud enough to draw attention to you as sorcerers have an ability specifically about NOT doing that.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think spotting a caster is trivial 90% of kitchen sink fantasies.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I think you don't play those games and need to stop applying vidya logic to not look like a gay outsider.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >make npc's do intelligent decisions
    >you're metagaming!
    Reminds me of a Call of Cthulhu game I DM'd
    >dealing with Deep One hybrids
    >party fortifies a house
    >hybrids break out molotov cocktails
    >set the house on fire
    >party gets forced into the open
    >shotguns and pitchforks vs .38's
    >tpk
    >get bitched at
    >reset encounter
    >have to have the hybrids do night of the living dead, even forgetting that they have guns
    I hate PC's who don't take precautions or think that the enemies can't do smart things.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is the opposite of my first experience
      >run End of the World, a zombie apocalypse system
      >you play yourself and session 1 starts with the zombie apocalypse starting at the same time as you’re playing
      >run for two prepper buddies
      >they sit in the house and just shoot anyone who they don’t know that comes near the house
      >loot other houses after a day or two and avoid the military the whole time

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >party complains that I'm "metagaming"
    sounds like a conversation needed to happen before the campaign even began, if you're going to run more realistic and potentially fatal encounters then the party would either agree to trying it or they'd prefer more of a casual experience

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Always point out how my mage characters are wearing either trash traveler's clothing to avoid attention, or generic noble garb to raise the prospect of being seen as a ransom target
    >Everyone just looks at me weird and it never matters.

    No winning for anyone, anon.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, it's impossible to know what level of forethought the GM expects before the game happens, and everyone always expects everyone else to have the exact same idea they do. But this is true for everything to do with RPGs.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You should play as tactically and intelligently as what the enemy NPC's you are playing as would be able to to do based on their stats for intellect etc.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >mercenary archer
      >veteran of many possible combat encounters
      >probably has been on the receiving end of a spell or two, or has seen mages with him rock some group
      Yeah he's dumb as rocks and instead of continuing to be a mercenary archer he prefers to be a corpse.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If the mercenary was actually that smart he'd turn down any contract asking him to deal with a bunch of "adventurers". Those people are a danger to themselves and everyone around them.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          only on a meta level. Most adventurers that aren't the players don't get the benefit of getting appropriately scaled fights or getting captured on defeat with an opportunity to break out. Instead they get in way over their heads because they got attacked by two wyverns or the undead lord of the crypt happened to be a lot stronger than they anticipated.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >that aren't the players
            Balancing encounters is for gays. If he dies, he dies.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's not meta, but it does make for a shitty game.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sorry your players are gays. My group always plays enemies appropriate to their intelligence/training/personality and it makes for s much more enjoyable game. It adds to the verisimilitude of the game and gives both players and the GM greater scope to come up with tactically engaging encounters.

      gay

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Remember to be excellent.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why would enemies with even a shred of intelligence stack on the barbarian
    No armor, probably the biggest target.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So what you're saying is that you're going to be surprised when none of your players play mages ever again or instantly murder everyone they meet because you condition them to think it's an elaborate 200iq trap to kill the mage first?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      is shooting a guy 200iq now

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      In shadowrun killing the mage first is standard tactics, and everyone including the mages themselves are aware of that.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Have you tried not playing shadowrun

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yes, and a ganger with a shotgun is trouble for anybody but the sam if you bump into one in an alley. This works because it matches your expectations of a heist game in a 80s NY with neons. If you expect swashbuckling adventure or be able to take down a dragon with a sword and get hit by fantasy SWAT, there can be a gap. In the combat as sport vs war spectrum, it's often best to make sure everybody's on the same boat.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >t. brain-rot by combination of memes and 4e Shadowrun

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ganking the mage first is what players do, they shouldn't be surprised that NPCs are at least as sensible as they are.

      In shadowrun killing the mage first is standard tactics, and everyone including the mages themselves are aware of that.

      The few times I played Shadowrun I was always the group's theurge and I went out of my way to look like a back-up samurai or give off bio-sam vibes so the only way people knew I was a sorcerer was if they got paranoid about the crucifix under my body armor or astrally projected and saw my aura. And I could never get mad if another mage recognized me for what I was.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Another gay who's entire experience with RPG comes from Skyrim

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dumb bait thread but fuck it. You've got a 200lb slab of muscle charging at you or some fag 80ft away waving a wand who you can deal with later. In that situation your immediate threat is the man who's about to swing the axe on top of your head.
    Overall you're the gay playing your mercs like retards; they should have nets, traps and use ambush-style setups like high-ground to bait and slow the big guns so they can deal with nukes. And why don't your mercs have a mixed a party of ranged and melee just like the party they're tracking?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You'd think so, but that's just real life thinking. In fantasy that scrawny dude with a pointy hate can crush your lungs if you're within his sights. In practical terms, the barbarian is a distraction.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's why anybody who's line of work has a high threat level (in-universe) is aware of this and already put contingencies in place to deal with the sword & boards so they can focus casters. Why are there no Merc mages?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Why are there no Merc mages?
          far easier to earn money as a spellcaster with something that doesn't involve warfare.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That may be true, but if they still have instincts similar to real instincts they will consider the big barbarian the threat. In order to focus on the caster the mercs need intelligence and discipline to overrule their instincts. This in turn requires that they are well trained. Which in turn demands some kind of institution to provide the training. Any character in the world might be, and any martial character should be, familiar with the institutions that teach to kill the wizard first.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I don't think they'd be mercs if they didn't have some level of training and discipline, unless you found them in the discount bin ofc

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The point I was getting at was not that they could not have that level of training. The point is that they did not come into being in the bush they ambushed the player from. The mercs are from somewhere. Did they receive their training in some mercenary company? Are they former soldiers of some non-mercenary army? Was there a war somewhere near that now has the countryside crawling with unpaid mercenaries? The existence of mercenaries in the world should be plainly visible to the PCs before they are ambushed by mercenaries. If the first time they ever learn the world has mercenaries after they are ambushed by them, then the GM just wanted to create a no-win scenario for the players.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              New to gming here, but how about making everyone do a DEX save to (partially) avoid a sudden hail of arrows, after which initiative is rolled?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                *With the damage not being to severe so it's not hopeless from the beginning.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                *With the damage not being to severe so it's not hopeless from the beginning.

                Was meant for

                Anybody trying to hit you with a gotcha about some shit like
                >Um ackshualy the mercenaries wouldn't do that because
                Is fucking stupid and missing the point. Mercenaries would absolutely focus casters down first.
                The actual response should be that it fucking sucks to kill a player form ambush with them not having literally any chance to do anything about it. It's even worse than a trap instantly gibbing them, because at least a trap gives a chance to detect, disarm, and avoid. If you're going to do an ambush, either let the players potentially notice it, avoid it, or survive it actually going off. Otherwise you might as well have them encounter a mercenary company of literally two thousand motherfuckers because that's also pretty feasible and realistic.

                I'm retarded

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                *With the damage not being to severe so it's not hopeless from the beginning.

                That's really only something you can do with high level characters who have enough HP to actually survive a few arrow hits. In that case you can have it so they have to rush to cover as the arrows are raining down to take as little damage as possible from the first volley.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                There should be multiple opportunities for the party to avoid the ambush, because getting shot from ambush without any opportunity to react is bullshit. Before there even is an ambush there should be a possibility to prevent or discover it. For example the mercenaries or their employer don't magically know where the players are headed, so they have some lackey or agent try to find it out by asking about the PCs in the town they are staying at. If the PCs have friends in the town, they can warn the PCs. Or the PCs might discover that fact by themselves by interacting with the townspeople. If the villain has a suitable agent available they might even send that agent to try and get the PCs to reveal where they are headed next. The outcomes at this stage would be: PCs foil the ambush completely (mercs never discover the PC destination, so they lie in ambush at a wrong place), discover the ambush but fail to prevent it (know someone was asking, but not who or why) or the ambush is going ahead (no information uncovered).

                Assuming the ambush then goes ahead, the party should have an opportunity to detect it before they enter it. This is doubly the case if they have a ranger or flying animal companion or some other scout moving ahead of them. This should pit the mercs ability to move and hide in the terrain against the scout's ability to detect them. If the party detects the ambush the terrain decides if they have the option to avoid it completely (through an alternate route), try to sneak up on the ambushers themselves or they might have to break through the ambush any way (if there is no alternate path).

                Finally, even if none of the above steps permit the PCs to avoid the ambush, I would give one final attempt at detecting the ambush immediately before it happens. If the PCs succeed they notice something is wrong at the last moment. Maybe the barbarian can step in front of the caster to prevent the ambushers from attacking the caster.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Thanks, I'll keep all of that in mind.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Mercenary can run the gauntlet even in real life.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >You've got a 200lb slab of muscle charging at you
      That doesn't sound right, considering the archers are laying in ambush. The first volley of arrows would presumably take them by surprise

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Did the PCs have an opportunity to learn their enemies had employed mercenaries? Did the PCs have an opportunity to avoid or mitigate the ambush? If you just decided their enemies had snapped their fingers to manifest highly trained mercenaries out of thin air at perfect ambush position, you are worthy of being bitched at.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Exactly. If you throw bullshit at your party without a hint of foreshadowing or chance to avoid or mitigate, you're a bad, power tripping DM

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Did the PCs have an opportunity to learn their enemies had employed mercenaries?
      Opportunity as in one existing at all unstated, or having to mention it to them at all?
      The former is something that exists by itself, but it must be realized by characters themselves.
      Players may be unaware, so then explaining them the rationale their characters possess is a reasonable thing, after all, just because they play a warrior, doesn't mean they actually are warriors.
      The latter must be done carefully if one has to at all.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How did the mercenaries know the caster was a caster? How did they know he was both fragile and highly dangerous? Couldn't the PC just have been a harmless nobody, a nonmagical sage/scholar or something for all the mercs knew?
    Are casters even dangerous in the system at the players current level? Barbarians at low level are many, many times more threatening at low to mid levels in most systems and need to be taken down ASAP.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You don't understand. The Game Master knew the caster was a caster. That is why the mercs knew.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You don't understand. The Game Master knew the caster was a caster. That is why the mercs knew.

      >Mercs were told who their targets were
      >experienced enough to set up an ambush
      >players fail to notice the ambush
      >they let loose on the one guy who looks like a wizard and isnt wearing arrow blocking armour
      >somehow this is too smart for gamers

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Rocks were told who their targets were
        >experienced enough to set up a hill
        >players fail to notice the rocky hill
        >they tumble on the one guy who looks like a wizard and isnt wearing rock blocking armour
        >somehow this is too smart for gamers

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          fail to notice
          You phrase this as a skill issue, but the players can only see what you tell them exists, so this is a GM failure

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You hear some rustling and suddendly feel a sharp anxiety take over, roll for detection
            >You failed the role and never even saw the ambush coming, suddendly a dozen mercenary pop up around the party and fling a dozen arrows towards the caster, caster roll to dodge
            >You failed, what is anyone else going to do before the impact is made? Roll for initiative first

            T. never ever played a ttrpg

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >T. never ever played a ttrpg
              You're making that really obvious yes

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I like to imagine my autistic take is way better than actual ttrpgs, how differently does it go?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If a GM kills your character based on a single save or die check then he quickly runs out of players or ruins his own game when all the players start playing cookie cutter clone replacement characters instead of caring

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                yeah and eh, did you fail to notice that in my non ttrpg mind version there was actually 2 checks, plus the oppurtinity for every other player to do something.

                I could for example see a warrior pushing the mage out of the way, dealing some damage but saving their life. They just have to roll initiative or whatever and come up with the idea

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You haven't played RPGs so you wouldn't know this but generally you can't push someone out of the way after they've already been hit on another players turn. It sounds like you're imagining free form RP but that isn't fun either because you're just guessing at what will make the GM happy.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >but generally you can't push someone out of the way after they've already been hit on another players turn.
                A lot of games have some provision for this.
                As a proportion of games, not a proportion of games by playerbase though, fair.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >but BEFORE your friend attempts his defense roll
                You couldn't use it in the scenario that was being outlined

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                An attack is declared.
                If you have eyes on the attacker, you may make a sacrificial defense or shield wall block as a reaction, before the intended target makes their defense roll.
                If you succeed, you get hit or block the attack, and they don't roll.
                If you fail, they roll as normal.
                If 'before defense is rolled,' meant what you imply, this passage would mean nothing at all.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Read

                >You hear some rustling and suddendly feel a sharp anxiety take over, roll for detection
                >You failed the role and never even saw the ambush coming, suddendly a dozen mercenary pop up around the party and fling a dozen arrows towards the caster, caster roll to dodge
                >You failed, what is anyone else going to do before the impact is made? Roll for initiative first

                T. never ever played a ttrpg

                He specified the caster failed his dodge before anyone else got asked to act, so it'd be too late for this

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Those sorts of things aren't used because the generally suck though. Like that specific example you posted requires that you are already standing directly next to the person. And you could block only one attack. From OP it sounds more like the caster was turned into a pincushion so one fewer attacks probably wouldn't have saved them anyway and it would have required the specific person with that ability to already be standing next to the caster. Since it was an ambush while traveling down the road the party was likely on horse back or a loose marching order so that probably couldn't have been used anyway. Which is the perennial problem of those types abilities and why they aren't used. They just aren't useful when you need them most of the time.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >And you could block only one attack
                Good enough most of the time. I would generally allow this to be used to make a reactive shove in the process. If the person you're defending drops out of line of sight or into prone modifiers before beings truck by the first attack, the next are defended against in some fashion. Let alone the movement from the first may cause you to block LoS from the remainder, even if you both stay standing.
                >The specific person with the ability
                99% of the combat maneuvers in this game are nonspecific. Anyone can do this.
                >Horseback
                An absolutely fair point. In that scenario, this doesn't help at all.
                >They just aren't useful when you need them most of the time.
                I see them used about every other session

                Read
                [...]
                He specified the caster failed his dodge before anyone else got asked to act, so it'd be too late for this

                He also didn't specify a system because he doesn't play games, so in this instance he'd be doing it wrong.
                The point is simply that

                You haven't played RPGs so you wouldn't know this but generally you can't push someone out of the way after they've already been hit on another players turn. It sounds like you're imagining free form RP but that isn't fun either because you're just guessing at what will make the GM happy.

                is incorrect and the ability to bodily block attacks or shove people out of the way is a thing that exists in several games.
                That was it. That was the point.

                Because it's a game for the players to have fun with, not for the GM to jerk off about how smart he was that with infinite power, infinite resources, and infinite knowledge he was able to execute an ambush

                While GM's like that do exist, if the scenario is such that it makes sense for the enemies to attempt an ambush, I'm going to have them to do that. They're going to follow the rules for doing that, they're going to prioritize targets based on what they know or can see, and the players know full well about the dangers of traveling and account for it, so far with complete success.
                The notion that some scenarios should never be used because despite making perfect sense they're 'unfair,' is...well I guess it's true in some games, but it's nonsense outside of that context.

                in my non rpg head it's all a freeform puzzle. The gm has to know how to play the enemies and make the encounters fun.

                If the mage is free and wants to cast a protective seal on the warriors head just before a hammer was about to hit it and they make the cast roll and are considered a fast enough caster by some stat or something it'd work
                But I dont play and never have, I just have fantasies about how I imagine it

                This guy's not even wrong. If your game can't arbitrate situations in combat beyond lockstep rigid HP exchanges, it's dogshit.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                thanks anon

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Good enough most of the time.
                Fair, but most of the time isn't every time.
                > I would generally allow this to be used to make a reactive shove in the process.
                That's nice, but it doesn't sound like the no game LARPing as a GM would allow something like that.
                >99% of the combat maneuvers in this game are nonspecific. Anyone can do this.
                >I see them used about every other session
                Fair. Though I mostly come from a DnD background so these sorts of actions generally aren't universal and generally have an opportunity cost for learning each and every such maneuver. It can be a... frustrating system.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Though I mostly come from a DnD background so these sorts of actions generally aren't universal and generally have an opportunity cost for learning each and every such maneuver. It can be a... frustrating system.
                I learned on 3.5 and that's why I stopped playing it entirely for GURPS. It's a framework for arbitrating situations. If it makes sense in the narrative and is physically possible, but the rules don't explicitly cover it, you arbitrate it with the most appropriate rule. None of this 'you can't tie your shoes without three feats because the designers are making a stealth magic the gathering spinoff and not a roleplaying system,' shit I somehow dealt with for twenty years.
                >That's nice, but it doesn't sound like the no game LARPing as a GM would allow something like that.
                Maybe. I'll give the guy some credit, he's actually honest that he doesn't play and sounds like he's trying to understand. That's points in my book.
                >Fair, but most of the time isn't every time.
                Nah, no such thing.

                Okay, now imaging you actually have a group of friends who want to play a game with you. 15 minutes into an afternoon long session, that special ops team busts in and kills your character with no warning. There are still several hours left in the game. How much fun are you going to have sitting there watching an episode of discount Critical Roll in person?

                > that special ops team busts in and kills your character with no warning
                guy man,

                Anon, actual combat even in ancient times can easily go into instagib tier death probabilities.
                Killing the other side as fast as possible and using surprise element when possible is just basics. That just makes it interesting.
                Imagine you get a warning call from a dude owning a favor, that a special ops squad has been hired to kill you, you wouldn't expect them to give you a chance or wait while you work on your morning routine?

                explicitly said
                >Imagine you get a warning call from a dude owning a favor,
                What do you do? Tell me what the fuck you do. Plant cameras, set a scout offsite, trap the windows, barricade the doors, flee the city. Do any fucking thing off the information you've been given. If you sit there gormlessy and wait for them to breach your front door because 'lmao fair combat encounter right?', I'll kill your characters and feel only very slightly bad about it.
                I set the scenario in motion as impartially as possible. Once those men exist in the narrative, they're going to act as my characters, roleplayed best as I can with the information and resources they have. They're real people you can elude, trick, trap, and pre-empt. If the Gm won't give you that, or won't accept you've bested his super speshul pet NPCs,then he's shit. And if you won't act on it, you are.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >guy man
                My point was more that you cant always be guaranteed to have a guy that owes you a favor tipping you off to every possible ambush if you are running the game in a extremely brutal way where the enemies are always trying to ambush you.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                True, but if you're going to have enemies, you have to expect ambushes or set them up, yourself.
                Goes with the trade, see?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's true, but you should still be taking extensive precautions. In the implied crime drama or spy thriller game, if you don't have contacts get them. set up false safehouses, work security and vigilance into your general routine.
                It's true that a shit GM can just kill you at any time, but the objective in this sort of 'brutal, realistic' game is all in preparation and practices. If things get to the point where you're ambushed unawares, that's the point where you lost based on something that already happened, something you already did or didn't do, if your GM isn't a complete tool. The ensuing combat is already basically the failstate.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                In reality sure but again you are playing a game not simulating the second french-german war and their ramification on local aggriculture in Lyon

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                in my non rpg head it's all a freeform puzzle. The gm has to know how to play the enemies and make the encounters fun.

                If the mage is free and wants to cast a protective seal on the warriors head just before a hammer was about to hit it and they make the cast roll and are considered a fast enough caster by some stat or something it'd work
                But I dont play and never have, I just have fantasies about how I imagine it

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I like to imagine my autistic take is way better than actual ttrpgs, how differently does it go?

              yeah and eh, did you fail to notice that in my non ttrpg mind version there was actually 2 checks, plus the oppurtinity for every other player to do something.

              I could for example see a warrior pushing the mage out of the way, dealing some damage but saving their life. They just have to roll initiative or whatever and come up with the idea

              in my non rpg head it's all a freeform puzzle. The gm has to know how to play the enemies and make the encounters fun.

              If the mage is free and wants to cast a protective seal on the warriors head just before a hammer was about to hit it and they make the cast roll and are considered a fast enough caster by some stat or something it'd work
              But I dont play and never have, I just have fantasies about how I imagine it

              >I am a retarded outsider
              >Entertain me
              I genuinely wonder why anyone took your post serious, given you are blatantly shitposting

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I mean, that's not really a test of intelligence on the players part. It's a "whoops you failed this one check which would have been your only warning, now you just die" moment. I guess it's slightly better than just saying "rocks fall you die" but not by much. Also wearing anti-arrow armor 24/7 is basically impossible for a wizard so if they don't have a chance to react to something like that, then yeah they just sort of die which is kind of bullshit.
        What I'm more curious about is how the mercs knew exactly when and were they party would be. What checks did the mercs have to make to scouts out or spy on the party to get intel good enough to ambush them. I mean surely you weren't a bad DM and just had the mercs magically exactly in a perfect ambush position where the party would only have one fleeting chance against extremely difficult if not impossible odds to spot and avoid having one or more of the party instantly killed with no chance to react, right?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >what is scrying
          >what are familiars
          This is why your characters should kill all owls, hawks, crows, spiders, rats, etc on the suHispanicion that they might be magic.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Huh, so the merc have a high level wizard with them? I mean it's not till fairly late level, if ever, that wizard familiar can communicate like that. Also, same goes for magic scrying that is reliable, hard to notice and can be cast often enough to have a good chance to catch useful info. Though there wasn't mention of the party failing several saves/checks over many hours or days against said scrying attempts....

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >it's not till fairly late level, if ever, that wizard familiar can communicate like that.
              Find Familiar is a 1st level spell and it allows for instant telepathic communication at up to 100 ft. With a 3rd level feature some characters can communicate with their familiar telepathically at any distance provided they're both on the same plane of existence. Is 3rd level really your idea of "fairly late"?
              >there wasn't mention of the party failing several saves/checks over many hours or days against said scrying attempts
              That's what secret checks are for. There isn't anything about the spell Scrying that lets you know what you're saving against.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Find Familiar is a 1st level spell and it allows for instant telepathic communication at up to 100 ft. With a 3rd level feature some characters can communicate with their familiar telepathically at any distance provided they're both on the same plane of existence. Is 3rd level really your idea of "fairly late"?
                Depends on the system, which OP obviously didn't state so as to avoid scrutiny of the rules of something that never happened. But again, how did the mercs find the party to send the familiar to spy on them and at what point did the party clearly state their plans, while the familiar happened to be present with the caster using it to spy? And if it's an earlier edition than 5e, most of those abilities don't exist at all or till higher level.
                >That's what secret checks are for. There isn't anything about the spell Scrying that lets you know what you're saving against.
                Cool, so just how many wizards do they have to cast Scry? You can only Scry up to 10 minutes so for 1 hour you'd need 6 castings of Scry is all of them succeed. And Scry is a 5th level spell so a 9th level caster can cast it *ONCE* before having to regain spells.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What? Not that guy but what?
                Familiar very much exist ij every edition and usually most gm let player start with em.

                Familiar is a (non-listed) class feature of 3.5. In pathfinder it is actually a level 1 skill for wizards.
                In 4th it is a feat you can gain at level 1.
                In 2nd ed it is a spell (with a price tag).

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I was referring more to the ability to spy like that through the familiar than the familiar itself. In 3.5 you can't properly speak with a familiar till 5th level. But RAW that levels of communication have to be verbal and can't be done over the empathic link, but DM might decide that's not RAI and allow full communication over the telepathic link. You can take the improved familiar I guess to get a non-animal familiar like an imp that can turn invisible. But that's it's own can of worms to deal with. I vaguely recall there being a way to share senses with a normal familiar, but I can't remember the steps to achieve that, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a standard thing you could just do with a familiar. I think it might have been a spell? But it's been a while since I've played 3.5.
                2e familiar are also very limited in the quality of information the convey. They are mostly still animal intelligence and can only share animal level info.
                I don't really know anything about 4e familiars.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          nta but
          >Single check failure
          This is dependent on a lot of stuff. In most environments, I expect the party to have forward scout of some kind. Be it a specialized character or a familiar or something, so there should be a large number of checks about it. Usually the forward ranger winds up slitting the ambusher's throats in the process, honestly.
          >wizard specifically
          you know, I don't have experience with this because none of my players has ever had their characters present themselves as 'obviously a mage.' If they were somehow aware ahead of time, perhaps, but the mage is often the person with the most anti-projectile defenses in some fashion, given the nature of their work, so this would still be a bad play without some sort of magic-penetrating bolts, which I could see in some situations
          >How did they find them?
          Usually ambushes, in my games at least, wind up happening in an ongoing scenario, such as a dungeon, where the enemies have had time to observe or guess the party's actions, or after some degree of cat and mouse in the woods, and usually not as the first combat or inciting incident. They take too many precautions for enemy scouts to observe them and get away with the information very often.

          fail to notice
          You phrase this as a skill issue, but the players can only see what you tell them exists, so this is a GM failure

          nta either, but there's a lot going on here. On the one hand, the Gm has to be honest with what the players sense and fair with how the skill checks play out, if they're even necessary. Sometimes there's no sane reason the players wouldn't see what's going on so you tell them.
          On the other, the players can pro-actively scout, clear routes, or just generally adopt better practices to extend their zone of awareness instead of marching through the murderwoods in a big huddled clump.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    you are not metagaming but you are making not fun scenario. Did you at least hint at them having a powerful enemy that might try to kill them?

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >since he is a fragile, high value target
    this has never been true. even in AD&D clerics were wearing armor and carrying shields.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He said "caster". You know, like a wizard? That thing that in AD&D was not permitted to wear armor and had a d4 hit die? Retard.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Clerics are casters. As are bards and druids. Higher level rangers and paladins who take spell casting are an iffy edge case. But caster is just for spell-caster, i.e. anyone who casts spells. Also, depending on the books you use wizards can be armored and/or have higher hit dice. "Player's Options: Spell & Magic" is some wild shit. I'm working on a wizard character and am working with the DM to make a school of effect focusing on life manipulation. I just finished skimming through the spell compendiums and have about 160 spell for consideration. Had to borrow heavily from the priest books since typical wizard is pretty limited in that department but the Healer Mage list on page 1140 does set some precedence for doing so.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The OP described the caster as "fragile"

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Most casters are fragile unless you invest in making them not fragile. The difference between a d4 and a d8 is only 2 HP per level on average. So unless the cleric invests in armor they are fragile too. Also wizards can cast various defensive spells so AC can be comparable. With D&D how you build and what stats you get tend to be more important than class. Atleast when it comes to survivability.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >He said "caster". You know, like a wizard?
        clerics and druids are spellcasters who get 9th level spells and are capable of just as much bullshit as a wizard is. historically, divine casters are EVEN MORE bullshit than wizards, since wizard whiteroom gayry assumes perfect access to every single spell in the entire game and batman foresight AND having infinite time and money to buy scrolls and copy them into your spellbook.
        Meanwhile, CoDZilla just have access to their entire fucking list every day, no strings attached, they don't need a spellbook, and can swap around freely every single day so niche spells aren't dead weight. Oh, and they also get d8 hit die and armor and shields.

        It's literally just fake grogs who never actually played older editions who pretend casters are made of paper. It's simply never been true.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          In older editions divine casters only get 7th level spells. But divine 7th level spells are comparable to arcane 9th level spells so they hit maximum bullshit potential slightly earlier.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          But people usually mean wizard, or sorcerer if you say caster. Normal people say cleric if they mean cleric.

          It's literally just autist who never actually talked with humans who pretend clerics are the first thing when casters are mentioned. It's simply never been true.

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >*rolls*
    >a sniper hit you from the opposite side of town, you're dead
    >next time declare you're looking for cover

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >>"How did they know we were here?"
      agent placed a tracker in your pocket two weeks ago. Next time declare you check your pockets for tracking devices.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anybody trying to hit you with a gotcha about some shit like
    >Um ackshualy the mercenaries wouldn't do that because
    Is fucking stupid and missing the point. Mercenaries would absolutely focus casters down first.
    The actual response should be that it fucking sucks to kill a player form ambush with them not having literally any chance to do anything about it. It's even worse than a trap instantly gibbing them, because at least a trap gives a chance to detect, disarm, and avoid. If you're going to do an ambush, either let the players potentially notice it, avoid it, or survive it actually going off. Otherwise you might as well have them encounter a mercenary company of literally two thousand motherfuckers because that's also pretty feasible and realistic.

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Basic Shadowrunner doctrine dictates to "Geek the Mage first". Not the enemy's fault the party can't protect their squishiest dumbass.

    Basic ambush/combat doctrine dictates that "If someone looks important and threatening, shoot them first." Shit's been that way since the beginning.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Did Terry actually run this account or did it just repost statements he made on his Livestreams and other forums?

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >caster doesn’t have a contingency spell to cast protection from arrows if he takes any damage from ranged attacks
    I’d say never gonna make it but he already died

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's not metagaming, but it's also just not fun.
    Ambushes in general are not fun. All you did was tell a player "Okay, you died."

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >le heckin mudcore subversion
    >free slaves who then hate you because slavery is good
    >give money to the poor who then get killed and robbed
    >play a rogue and get drawn and quartered the instant the local lord tets his eyes in you
    >give your character some fantasy aesthetics and die because its highly impratical for combat
    >the fighter tries to hit an enemy by rolling dice, the enemy trips the fighter and pokes out his eyes without rolling anything because he plays dirty
    >you walk into town and get ambushed by hundreds of men-at-arms in full harness because they just know you didn't pay taxes
    >you go on a quest and get ambushed by hundreds of bandits veterans of countless battles
    >have to declare you are looking for signs of danger when you do anything, and even then you have to specify to declare WHICH signs you are looking for, and even then obviously the enemies don't leave any sign anyway
    >don't wear armor as a wizard that can't wear armor and has low hp and rightly get killed because you stupidly didnt prepare any defence against being shot by dozens of arrows by undetectable enemies
    >you do anything, including doing nothing, but you did it wrong because you are an idiot that cannot read the mind of the gm and your PC apparently is completely unaware of how the world he lives in works
    >unlike the enemies who always perfectly know all of your abilities and never make any mistake ever. why would they?
    hell yeah its high-IQ DMing time.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      how mad are you right now?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        why shouldn't i be mad in the face of utter retardation? what other emotion am i supposed to feel? not that an unserious irony-poisoned child that learned to speak english with buzzwords and soijak memes like you would know

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Just stop wearing a sign that says "kill me first", which is what wizard garb is.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >just have everyone dress in potato sacks and mud
        Boring

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You argue like my wife, putting words in people's mouths to make their argument the least sensible version of what they're saying.

          Not wearing a wizard's robes doesn't inherently mean wearing a potato sack. You could dress like a yeoman, or a trader, or a noble, or if your party look like mercenaries you could dress like them in bright slashed clothing. You could carry a sword on your hip, since everyone knows wizards don't carry swords. You could carry a musket on your shoulder, since everyone knows wizards don't carry muskets. It's not hard, anon.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >since everyone knows wizards don't carry swords
            Why not, though? Isn't that a rather silly presumption, an IRL stereotype, rather than any actual in-setting stereotype?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Well I'm operating under the assumption that OP is playing a generic fantasy RPG, especially since his players are childish enough to complain that their wizard gets targeted for dressing like a wizard.

              So, yeah. Yes, actually. I'm assuming it's a stereotype. And unless OP corrects me on the particular lore of his setting, it's not the worst assumption to make so we can get on with the conversation.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, that's reasonable.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Not wearing a wizard's robes doesn't inherently mean wearing a potato sack. You could dress like a yeoman, or a trader, or a bunch of other retarded things
            if thats the logical thing to do for a wizard then wizards would already be doing that (or they would be dead), which means they would be recognizable as wizards anyway. you have an inflated opinion of your very low logical abilities.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >if my players--who are fully enmeshed in the stereotypes and tropes of this very particular and rather low-stakes form of play--don't do it, that means no one can possibly do it!
              Don't be retarded. You're better than that.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >This fucking level of assumptions
            You never played a single TTRPG in your life, didn't you?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >high-IQ
      >spelling and grammatical mistakes
      Okay ESL.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Get good.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Skill issue.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Good one.
      Probably the only post redeeming this shitshow of a thread

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    As the party's tank I wear a blue velvet cloak, velvet floppy hat, and have grown a faggity long beard.

    Our wizard wears a cosplay muscle suit stuffed with hay.

    THE FUCK YOU GOING TO DO NOW OP

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      My party actually did this once with glamour magic, but we knew someone was after our wizard (and only him) so it was a way to bait out the killer.
      When the enemy mercs tried to grapple the wizard and failed, realizing it was in fact a 2m tall orc, it was a great moment.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        As the party's tank I wear a blue velvet cloak, velvet floppy hat, and have grown a faggity long beard.

        Our wizard wears a cosplay muscle suit stuffed with hay.

        THE FUCK YOU GOING TO DO NOW OP

        thing is though
        any DM willing to open up with enough attacks on a character he will die instantly, is also willing to give said enemies the ability to bypass whatever means you think off to avoid said attacks

        trying a glamour magic trick against such a DM wouldn't change anything other than the mercenary leader having a monocle of truesight on him

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are you setting up scenarios your players can't plan around?
    If such a thing was possible they should have been given hints that is the case as well as opportunities and mechanisms to make counter measures.

    Also the nature of how the players enter the ambush changes how 'fair' it is from a game perspective.

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Soon, with DnDone giving everyone a level 1 feat and Lightly Armored being buffed to give Medium Armor and Shield proficiency, all casters will be walking around in half-plate.

    Then it will be the Rogues and Monks who look the squishiest.

  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Your players sound like shitters, honestly. It's perfectly reasonable for mercenaries to use sensible tactics. It's what makes them dangerous.

    It'd be like complaining that the swamp dwelling lizard people use poison darts, or that the evil necromancer can summon skeletons to help him. Foes need traits to make them stand out beyond being "Hostile unit with melee and ranged attacks."

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's really hard to set up ambushes that feels satisfying to the players. The problem here isn't even that the mage got got, it's that he felt he didn't have a fair chance. Which, considering the ambush, might actually be true. Ambushes aren't meant to be fair, but that also makes them very unfun to play against.

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's generally rude to alpha strike players even if it makes narrative sense because the point is to have fun.

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Use conventional battle tactics if medieval warfare
    >Shield walls and polearm master phalanx sandwich
    >Warrior charge with rogues popping in as a second wave to attack from sides and behind
    >Anything calvary
    >Small mixed unit operations that combine magic with the mix, active magical medics
    >Conventional ambush tactics if any kind
    >"Your encounters are too hard .."

    Enemies having a chance and acting with a will to live and a drive to win is too hard for some reason.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That sounds like you are throwing an entire phalanx at a party of handful of PCs.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        nta, but I've dumped like five times their number on my players before. They make it work.

        Yes, and a ganger with a shotgun is trouble for anybody but the sam if you bump into one in an alley. This works because it matches your expectations of a heist game in a 80s NY with neons. If you expect swashbuckling adventure or be able to take down a dragon with a sword and get hit by fantasy SWAT, there can be a gap. In the combat as sport vs war spectrum, it's often best to make sure everybody's on the same boat.

        This guy has a good point. Expectations are important, and as I run exclusively 'combat as war,' as he puts it, my players know what they're in for. Of the numerous times I've tried to ambush them, it's worked exactly never because they take sensible precautions, and every character has either an above average or staggering sensory capability.
        I think it's easy for people all the way over in my corner to forget that 'combat as sport,' as a playstyle/game design even exists.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The game system make it work
          Here, ftfy, baka-kun

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The game system matters a great deal, obviously.
            If it matters so much you can't actually say the players did or didn't accomplish anything, it's either dogshit or you are.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Did you somehow confused tabletop RPG with battle minis, or are just generally retarded?

  28. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So, like, are we saying it's realistic for npcs/mercs to know that HP is real?

    I mean, if you had 8 crossbowmen with 4 targets wouldn't they realistically try to take down all 4 in the first volley? Instead of thinking "oh, this wizard has 32hp, we better all focus fire him.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes it would be, OP is a nigglet.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's not realistic to know HP is real, but it is realistic to know that people can survive getting shot by multiple arrows.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >t. complete fucking retard
        Shouldn't you be already mobilised, Ivan, for your everlasting tactical genius?

  29. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If you do this I'm taking a shit in your oven and turning it on before I leave.

  30. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    how did they know that it was caster?
    if there are some obvious tells and they are decently experimented, I'd say that it's "alrigh", but regarding players, sucks a bit to die suddenly if they can't prevent that, not even a skill roll to check for the ambush or at least have a slim chance of survival?

  31. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Every GM could easily kill the entire party with minimal force and units because he knows their weaknesses in and out.
    Opening a volley of arrows on the softest target is something that should be at the very end of at least one or two failed roles and truly terrible decisions.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I ASSUME OP rolled someone for noticing the ambush and then the mage rolled to avoid and failed both.

      Personally I'd have the opening volley always be non lethal, but leave them greviously wounded

  32. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >doesnt have a flying familiar constantly scouting ahead
    asked for it

  33. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's their fault for giving the wizard a staff, pointy hat, and robes covered in stars. There's no reason for a wizard's traveling gear to look just like his ceremonial gear

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The kind of games where the wizard doesn't wear a big pointy hat aren't worth playing.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      whatever fantasy games you play, if any, are fucking utter shit

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        All adventurers should have a set of practical clothes for adventuring in, and a set for showing off their status when in civilization.

  34. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >"So anon, you specifically targeted all the arrows at John's wizard, why?"
    >"W-Well they're a wizard, they would know to target magic users first!"
    >"But my wizard is in leather armor and wielding a crossbow currently and his magic focus is hidden specifically for that reason"
    >"Th-They just know!"
    This is why you don't let retards GM.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You made up a fictional story to get made at

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >fictional story
        >Wizard wearing armor and using a crossbow is fictional
        Have you never played 3.5 or earlier?
        >made
        Oh nevermind, you're a fucking retard that can't write.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Players complain about running out of spell slots or magic not being as effective
          >Ignore my advice to carry a crossbow around because of "muh cantrips"

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Cantrips were a mistake and we need to go back.
            The only time I've seen Cantrips actually done well is when they didn't have spell slots but used a Black Hack style resource die. You had a lot of juice but eventually it'd run out.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >"But my wizard is in leather armor and wielding a crossbow
      Maybe the dozens of archers in the firing line were ordered to fire one who could be a "bard, rogue, druid, monk, alchemist, oracle, inquisitor, ranger, cleric, random NPC being escorted, fighter/paladin/cleric not wearing full armor because they're travelling or resting, OR somebody who might be wearing light armor". You ever consider that?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >oracle, inquisitor
        Oh you're a Pathfinder player, that explains a lot.
        >You ever consider that?
        If that's the case the Barbarian should always be focused since he's both the greatest physical threat AND the least armored generally.

  35. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They're pro mercs with experience in killing those, and means to discern them.
    No seriously, why is this a complaint? Is not targeting an officer when possible a basic tactic even in ancient times?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because it's a game for the players to have fun with, not for the GM to jerk off about how smart he was that with infinite power, infinite resources, and infinite knowledge he was able to execute an ambush

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        So? Are challenging opponents that force players to play seriously not fun?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          There is a difference between challenging foes that force players to play seriously, and bullshit situations that instagib their character without a chance to actually try to save themselves other than maybe one or two completely random and out of their control die rolls, insuring that they don't get to play at all.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Anon, actual combat even in ancient times can easily go into instagib tier death probabilities.
            Killing the other side as fast as possible and using surprise element when possible is just basics. That just makes it interesting.
            Imagine you get a warning call from a dude owning a favor, that a special ops squad has been hired to kill you, you wouldn't expect them to give you a chance or wait while you work on your morning routine?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Okay, now imaging you actually have a group of friends who want to play a game with you. 15 minutes into an afternoon long session, that special ops team busts in and kills your character with no warning. There are still several hours left in the game. How much fun are you going to have sitting there watching an episode of discount Critical Roll in person?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not much admittedly, but then again I would play with someone who likes roguelikes or wargames if I could, so rapid casualty list expansions are to be expected.
                I see your point, mind you, I don't particularly disagree, but personally while there ought to be a chance to escape an ambush, there winning shouldn't be guaranteed. Much the same, I would expect that actual characters would be mindful of standing guard or traps anyway, so it's all right in the end.
                One thing that bothers me in video games or movies, for example, is how slow rockets are, it gets silly to see people dodge those. If combat doesn't flow just right, it can be somewhat hard to think it's a challenge, immersion is lost, but that's just me.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I can understand liking challenging combat. But high casualty games can be a logistical nightmare. If a third of the part does die but the rest survive, then what? How do you arrange for the players to bring in new characters mid dungeon crawl every other encounter? Do you just make sure every fight is a nearly guaranteed TPK so that a significant portion of the players don't end up sitting out most of the time? How do you even run a game if there is just a revolving door of completely new characters every session? If it just a series of one shot that no one is really meant to survive?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Make a fast and compressed character generation means, a rapid stat list, and if need be, use computer means, maybe make some visual basic program to tackle things, naturally.
                Fleshing out only those characters that survive long enough is doable as well, or just pick a random human from a town.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's a way to do it, but then you are departing significantly from how TTRPGs are typically designed. At that point you'd be playing something more like a multiplayer version of Kingdom Death. Which could be fun, but it's a very different genre of game.

                True, but if you're going to have enemies, you have to expect ambushes or set them up, yourself.
                Goes with the trade, see?

                That's true, but you should still be taking extensive precautions. In the implied crime drama or spy thriller game, if you don't have contacts get them. set up false safehouses, work security and vigilance into your general routine.
                It's true that a shit GM can just kill you at any time, but the objective in this sort of 'brutal, realistic' game is all in preparation and practices. If things get to the point where you're ambushed unawares, that's the point where you lost based on something that already happened, something you already did or didn't do, if your GM isn't a complete tool. The ensuing combat is already basically the failstate.

                True but those types of game are very intensive to run and most GM probably simply couldn't pull something like that off with out intentionally or unintentionally screwing you over at some point. They just require so much more effort being put into fleshing out what the enemies are doing at any given time to make sure the enemies don't magically pop-up in a way that you're player simply can't handle through no fault of their own.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >They just require so much more effort being put into fleshing out what the enemies are doing
                I just put note pins on a map and call it a day

                That said, they're not for everyone regardless. Really I'll say my only contention in this thread is with the stance that ambushes and picking on obviously weak characters are always unfair, unavoidable, rocks fall bullshit. Players in the right mindset, with the right expectations, can defeat things like this trivially, and often without even resorting to Big Numbers on some skill checks or anything.
                That said, if this is all totally counter to your player's expectations, then you are doing something wrong. and if you're only doing it to 'punish' them, then it is just rocks fall.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Personally, "punishing" in TTRPG is a terrible outlook, it's too personal, too crude.
                It breaks naturalness, the world is supposed to proceed on its own without constant intervention, safe or not, otherwise it's less playing a game and more playing against a GM.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Complete agreement.
                My philosophy is that I'm there to arbitrate the game world the PCs inhabit and keep it running. There's no punishing players, and there's no rewarding them either. Not in any meta sense. If there's meta issues, you talk to the players directly, or they talk to you.
                First and foremost, everyone's objective is to maintain the narrative veracity of the game world.

                I think there's something of an interesting discussion to be had about hands on/off Gming styles. I know one of my current players,used to a more hands on, narrative focused GM, described my games as;
                >Anon has a lemon stand and the first glass is free
                >If you ask for another he asks if you brought any lemons
                >All the tools to make the lemonade are right there for you to use, there's just a bring your own lemons policy.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Well, how many GMs run really, really, really fleshed out combat heavy games?
                This sort of attention to details already demands one to have considerable understanding of procedures, on par with more complex wargames, normal or in space.
                Is Twilight 2000 heavy on charts?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            An ambush can be spotted (you should have at least one character who is good at that). Marching formations can provide cover to softer party members. A smart ambush only means certain death to an unprepared group

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Not particularly in a RPG setting.
          You want hard mission not save or die scenarios.
          The goal of the GM and of each player is still to have fun.
          Killing 4 people and making them feel stupid is fun for 1 person, who then probably only plays alone if he keeps putting his own fun above theirs

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There are always scenarios that save or die is appropriate for.
            Falling from a great height with no failsafe, escaping an exploding facility, being poisoned at dinner, etc.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Poisoned at dinner
              Not particulary fun as a player I would say.
              Weaken them at the dinner sure, makes for fun events, can lead to a handicapped fight and a good tactical round.
              If the other party uses a stunning poison, don't kill them, let the other party use this oppurtunity to steal the specific item which then leads to a chase across city.

              Generally (unless your friends enjoy hardcore games) always pretend to be James Bond villain.
              Give your party a fighting chance and make them feel smart to use their tools.
              Don't put 2 bullets in their head in the forst 5 minutes, but play up the game

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >being poisoned at dinner is save or die
              That's dumb in anything but low HP, high lethality systems.

              Not only for the players dying but the thought that the most dangerous person without poison immunity could just die is so silly when people can bathe in dragon's breath. The most powerful person is probably a wizard with low/mid constitution so will likely fail their save as well. Or hell, a dragon, an angel, dead. Saying that this poison is more deadly than getting hit by a cannon ball.

              Just make it deal damage and give the player some debilitating poisoned condition.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      nta, but PCs and NPCs using the "best" tactics != the most fun. Yes, dragons could be strafing the barbarians and grappling the wizards before dropping them from high altitude, but maybe Timmy just wants to hit with his sword because swords are cool. Beholders are smarter than you, homicidal and paranoid, and have the ability to levitate and spam disintegrating rays to excavate tunnels. Fighting a smart beholder in its warren vs a smart beholder in an empty room vs a dumb beholder are all possible levels of challenge that a DM can choose to maximise the players' and his enjoyment. Ramping up the difficulty in a specific scenario (horror, smart instead of brawny villain) can raise the stakes, but doing it out of nowhere can just feel unfair.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's true.
        That said, one can always have Placeholdalf the Wandering Wizard join the battle to help the party and compensate their novice tactics with his ancient expertise.
        That way one can have enemies acting intelligently, allies also acting intelligently, and the party is there to pick up the skills on the go, as the players are being constantly tossed left and right, "What the fuck is this? What the fuck is that?!"

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That is a two-bladed sword.
          Usually my groups doesn't like it and I can understand why.
          Having an NPC is still adding yourself to the party side which can detract from the illusion that you are trying to kill them.
          Additionally just throwing a better character in their midst can make them feel useless or less capable as true it might be.

          Again RPG is a social game, each solution is based on your people, reading your friends is important

  36. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yeah, players will feel at "unfair" disadvatage when encountering enemy more intelligent than themselves.

  37. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Enemies who act with perfect logic with 100% optimization all the time isn't fun, and is unrealistic.
    If the players are fighting a highly trained squad of elite soldiers, sure. Regular ass bandits, no.
    If they are Jerry the level 3 wizard, nobody'd know them. If they're Gweebus the level 12 high wizard of "I cast fireball at the beginning of every fight" renowned throughout the land then certainly they'd try to take him out first if they heard of him.

    If you ever play a lich, mindlfayer, or Strahd in an even remotely optimized way, they're unkillable, or their lairs are completely impenetrable from the years worth of traps and spells.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >and is unrealistic
      Highly debatable.
      Just because most military men (or any other serious trade for that matter) of any rank don't make an exorbitant effort to excel at their work doesn't mean there are none.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >If they are Jerry the level 3 wizard, nobody'd know them
      If Jerry is wearing robes and a pointy hat, people will know he's a wizard. Even irl everyone know what a wizard looks like, and wizards don't exist here

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What people know nowadays is usually a lot more broader then what people used to know back then.
        Today everyone can tell you what weapon thor has but ask some dumbfuck spainard, asian or american and noone could tell you.

  38. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I have mage armor on and shield prepared so the ambush doesn't kill me.

  39. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >DM warns the elf mage player that we are in orc territory and that orcs will target the elf
    >Get into combat with said orcs who hide in bushes and attacking only the elf
    >After two rounds the elf player complains
    >I just tell him to fall prone so all ranged attacks have disadvantage on him
    >Tell the tank to protect his front when the orcs try to rush him in melee now
    >Combat went a lot smoother and faster and the players stopped complaining for that combat encounter
    I wish people would use their brains a little more.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >dropping prone somehow makes you harder to hit with an arrow instead of easier
      5e is fucking retarded, stop playing it

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Dropping prone makes you easier to hit with projectiles.
        Yeah, lookit these fucking morons.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Smaller target profile is harder to hit, yes.
        But being prone means not being able to run or sprint, and if the one shooting is in a more optimal terrain, like on a hill, a slope or a roof corner, one indeed can be easier to shoot.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It did that in 3.5 and 4E too. You're retarded.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Dropping prone makes you easier to hit with projectiles.
        Yeah, lookit these fucking morons.

        I think this is a problem with scenario.
        From far you want to be the smallest target, from close you want to be mobile.
        The same is still true in modern warfare.
        If you are in a side street, you run straight through to the other side to avoid overwatch, method to dodge projectiles depends on the position of the attackers.

        From far away prone makes you harder to hit.
        From closer (10 feet) it would makes you easier to hit.

  40. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The question is obviously context dependent, and could be argued both ways with the right framing, but I agree that intelligent enemies should take intelligent decisions.
    Mind you, that doesn't necessarily mean making the most optimal decision, as a given attacker might not have all information, and they might have their own personal character that would affect their decision making, such as not being able to keep their cool in one way or another, being extremely prejudiced against one of the pcs, etc.
    Say a bandit with a crossbow gets spooked by the big barbarian cleaving his friend in half, on his turn he takes a shot at the barbarian and flees, more as a fear reflex than anything, even though there's a priest in robes clearly enhancing the barbarian's capabilities.

  41. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Unless you are specifically playing a high lethality or mudcore campaign players need an opportunity to interact with the ambush that isn’t outside of normal gameplay flow. Whether that is having their normal game actions find evidence of the ambush so they can prepare, or just making the initial arrow volley survivable so that players have the opportunity to run it doesn’t matter but at minimum you can’t instagib a PC (unless that PC does something like walk directly into lava). At minimum NPCs need to act like they exist the in the world of the game and do not have perfect knowledge, nor are they aware of game mechanics like Hit Points even in a high lethality game.

    While your players could straight up be morons It’s probably not them in this case. I’m going to assume you ran your mercenaries (and whoever hired them) with too much knowledge of how game mechanics work. I’m also guessing being ambushed has not happened in the normal flow of the campaign and you didn’t give them opportunities to interact with the ambush (prevent, discover, avoid, etc).

    At minimum you’ve haven’t properly managed your player’s expectation of the lethality of the game.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >making the initial arrow volley survivable
      This used to be the case, the volley would hurt the PCs but would generally kill a hireling or two.
      Hirelings existed to be the person who takes the sniper shot or gets blasted first.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What is mudcore? I've never heard this term until recently.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        A pejorative for any game the speaker perceives to be needlessly gritty, typically.
        You could argue it has a more specific definition, but it would be a long and fruitless argument.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Thanks.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >I've never heard this term until recently.
        Is it even possible to be this fucking new?

  42. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Of course they'll go for the wizard first. After all, they can get a second wind, brush off damage while raging, heal their party members, and are faster than their allies.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Have you tried learning how to use other spells other then fireball, firebolt and friends?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        To play devil's advocate: there are games out there that offer literally just that for magic users.
        Those are not good games, but still - they exist.

  43. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think the only flaw with the idea of bandits or mercenaries trying to target a mage first is that seeing someone with little to no armor who isn't physically fit and is being surrounded and protected by the rest of the people he's travelling with also describes things like nobles and merchants.
    If you waste time in your ambush with killing the rich guy the party is escorting, then not only have you given up a tactical advantage to no benefit, but you've also eliminated a target that would potentially be more valuable alive rather than dead due to the prospect of ransom.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Unless you were sent to assassinate the noble because he's going to stir some shit up, and your contract wants him dead. These aren't bandits, they're mercs, they are there for a reason. But presuming the mercenaries were hired specifically to fight the PCs, not just guarding the area, and it's a standard 4-5 man (fighty guy, cleric/druid, wizard/sorc, sneakybreeki, 5thguy being a hybrid of somesort), they probably also have a few fighter types getting ready to mix it up with the frontliners. It then becomes target priority, and they probably know that the wizard can't take many hits, and isn't quick. Taking him out of the fight makes it that much easier. And that's true of any party member, whoever they can single out and remove with minimal damage is the best alpha strike. If there is no wizard, but a rogue, he's about to be a leather pincushion. Got a factotum? Not anymore, arrows.

      Now, if there's no checks to notice the ambush, and get ready ahead of time, or no reason to suspect someone hired some operators to operate operationally on you, then yeah. If the PCs have basically been stomping across the land pissing off everyone in a position of power, and giving 0 fucks, then this is called reprecussions.

  44. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The problem here is that you're trying to use two incompatible ideas of what fantasy genre you are in:
    In modern D&D / video game fantasy, everyone knows what casters are and has encountered magic before, but all NPCs are fucking retards who exist to be beaten as part of a power fantasy. They target the toughest character, because that gives him the chance to show off how tough he is.
    If you're playing a gritty, low-fantasy, 'realist', mudcore, sword & sorcery or whatever game, nobody expects to encounter a genuine caster. They are incredibly rare and the reason they are allowed to be playable at all is that PCs are main characters so obviously would include truly exceptional individuals. Also, they probably don't have a recognizable uniform, on account of being rare and eccentric. If they dress like a stereotypical wizard, that's because they are a homage to the wizards in classic fantasy novels, etc. which nobody in the setting has read. Most people who walk around in robes are bureaucrats and priests (who generally don't have magic powers, only the exceptional holy men who are PCs get those).

  45. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >OP makes a thread about shit that never happened, for he's a no-game
    >people roll their eyes
    >OP bitches and moans that nobody likes him
    Gee, I wonder why

  46. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    And what is wrong with assumptions? They bother you or something?

  47. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    When I said "wave a staff" at them, I rather obviously implied that one can easily, though not necessarily successfully at all, discern a supernatural forces user by provoking them with something actual or symbolic that can spurn them to act in their capacity.
    It's an incredibly basic thing, you know, much like trailing a targets for a month or two and gathering rumors and hearsay from locals, you know, the things people also can do.

  48. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    just because its an assumption doesn't mean it is incorrect.

    Context is key, though: who do you think is the magical(read: highest priority target) one here?
    >Blue humanoid with no eternal ears, and a broad flat nose, wearing common clothes, a Robe of Running, Boots of Striding and Springing, a Cloak of Protection, and carrying a staff
    >a human wearing a landsknecht outfit, a breastplate, carrying a greatsword, and with a longbow on his back
    >a tiefling wearing studded leather armor and carrying a staff, with a Ring of Protection on, as well as a large book
    >an Elf wearing common clothes, scale mail, boots of False Tracks, with a light hammer, a longbow, a quarterstaff, and a shield

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Most actual in-game characters aren't likely to engage in such esoteric purpose or historical lore discernment of artifacts right off the bat.
      garden gnomeelry is more indicative of their nobility or wealth, and as such possibly high training and combat expertise.
      Now if magical rings are common, your average mercenary perhaps can presume that they are so.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Most actual in-game characters aren't likely to engage in such esoteric purpose or historical lore discernment of artifacts right off the bat.
        Thats an assumption I don't agree with. Nevermind the fact that my GM for that group tends to give that info away, why wouldn't the Mercenary Archers try to identify the magic items they can see?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          How would they go about it?
          The meaning of magic can't be discerned by those without magical aptitude. If they have those it's one thing, but even a single ring can be anything.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            by looking with their eyes and being prompted to roll an arcana or intelligence check, or something else.
            >The meaning of magic can't be discerned by those without magical aptitude.
            I'd also call this a bad assumption. It may be RAW, but very rarely in my experience is RAW followed strictly.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >just walk up to the possible wizard and inspect the carvings on his amulet to see if they are commonly known magical signs
              >ambush him
              pick one

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If you see a guy wearing amulets and all sorts of magical looking shit, all the while having no armoring, in a world where you presumably can find other mages and they're not ultra rare, it's not very strange that experienced mercs would focus fire them down.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Indeed, but not all worlds played necessarily have an abundance of mages, and a wise mage will not necessarily wear anything ostentatious or giving away magical vibes, so to speak, either.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >a wise mage will not necessarily wear anything ostentatious or giving away magical vibes, so to speak, either
                Exactly. But if a player dresses his character in wizard robes, with a wizard hat, and carrying a wizard staff, he should expect to be recognised as a wizard by friend and foe alike

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Right, so you agree that if the wizard was wearing armor then the mercs wouldn't be able to figure which armored person was the mage.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You implied that a person could identify a magic item from a mundane item by sight from a distance that they would be ambushing the target with bows. That isn't how seeing things works

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I would assume that the "magical looking crap" would be a staff, wands, scrolls, and other assorted traditional magical paraphernalia, like a familiar.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Only a familiar automatically indicates a mage and that assuming it can be distinguished from a well trained pet. Everything else could just as easy mark a scholar or noble of some sort, even if you can make out a wand at a distance that doesn't mean they are a mage as a wand of spark or light would be common enough for a wealthy scholar or noble to use

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                We have to assume because the OP said mercenaries they're more knowledgeable about the target than if they were strictly brigands or local highwaymen. Obviously someone is paying to have the party killed. "target the one with the owl" isn't beyond the pale here.

                Also this thread is probably bait since OP, as far as I can tell, hasn't responded at all.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                OP said he was metagaming and didn't target at random, so chances are the caster was indistinguishable from the rest of the party. Also I now notice he said 'caster' instead of 'wizard', which includes cleric, bard, warlock.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                He was accused of metagaming. I would assume "the caster" is a wizard since he said "fragile" - but you're right, we don't know for sure.

                Oh absolutely but I find the whole idea of, that guy has a walking stick and some scrolls he must be a wizard to be both common and stupid, even in a high magic setting like galorian or forgotten realms mages make up a tiny fraction of the population and things like wands can be purchased and used by non casters further muddying the waters on is this guy a mage, a rich guy, or someone who wants to be seen as a mage

                Yes that's all true, I would argue it doesn't change the fact that mercenaries would more than likely they have intel.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Hired mercs would have intel yes. That wasn't something I was disputing I don't really care enough about op's made story to discuss it but in the interest of making strangers read my objectively correct dogshit opinion.

                Killing a PC with no warning is bad form, noting that I consider knowing that you are in a hostile area to be fair warning. If the party is walking on a well traveled path or through frequently patrolled woodland then just killing the wizard with mercs is cowardly behavior either bust out the great wyrm dragon or let the PCs detect the ambush.
                TLDR Do your due diligence and give the pcs a perception check to detect the ambush. Also how the fuck are the 5-10 archers hiding while standing(assuming mid level PC that would take a few arrows) or who the fuck is hiring mercs to gank a wizard fresh out of his apprenticeship and some fucks he met at a tavern.

                Verification not required

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah I agree with you on it being bad form as well, unless everyone agrees that PCs are expendable. Everything else is speculation because the story is just bereft enough of detail to make people argue. But I'm glad we agree, despite this.

                >verification also not required

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Nice to meet an anon with the wits to match my room temp IQ

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous
              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Real talk I think every one overlooks the fact that you have to be standing to fire a bow so a band or mercenary archers ambushing someone would be like 6-12 guys standing behind trees, because a bunch of dudes standing up from cover does not in my mind constitute stealth

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I mean if they wait until they walk passed and shoot into their backs they have a more reasonable chance to stand up without being detected, but it would definitely cause perception rolls to hear the group of a dozen guys move in the bushes. People also tend to not realize that medieval forests were really well managed, and most of the areas around settlements and well traveled areas wouldn't have a lot of underbrush to hide in unless it was so far away from civilization it wasn't cultivated land - and then you would be on your toes anyway.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This whole conversation reminds me of the overwatch vortex crossbow build that makes four attacks outside of their turn at full bab-2 with 1.5 dex to damage from pathfinder 1e which is a certified clown moment

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                sounds like fun

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Haven't played it but yeah I consider it to be up there with the build that uses charisma for attack damage saves and if the DM lets you be undead HP. Also throwing build as a dragon that uses all four legs

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >throwing build as a dragon that uses all four legs
                that's hilarious

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Currently playing it in an all dragon party as the only ranged character, 6 attacks at level six is pretty funny

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I remember that build. You could pair it with that broken ass shadow enchantment that does 2 shots for 1 with every attack and auto-reloads your weapon for no cost but forces a will save or do minimum damage rolls on each hit.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >You could pair it with that broken ass shadow enchantment that does 2 shots for 1 with every attack
                The what now?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                My bad, it was a Shadowshooting double crossbow combo. Same end result but still.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Oh absolutely but I find the whole idea of, that guy has a walking stick and some scrolls he must be a wizard to be both common and stupid, even in a high magic setting like galorian or forgotten realms mages make up a tiny fraction of the population and things like wands can be purchased and used by non casters further muddying the waters on is this guy a mage, a rich guy, or someone who wants to be seen as a mage

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It can, but only when applicable.
                Naturally, that mean some knowledge on magical matters.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >There are 5 of them coming over the ridge. One of them looks like he might be a wizard
                >Yeah, I see him. Should we kill him first?
                >If you value your life
                Simple

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I just wasted my ambush chance, for I chosen poorly
                >10d8 damage is already flying in my direction
                >I am dead
                Easy

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You don't have to be able to discern the magical properties of some dude's gear to guess that he might be in command of supernatural powers. If you saw a group of barbarians and one of them was older and weaker looking than the others, was dancing in a circle while wearing a feathered headdress, waving a sceptre made if bones and had weird symbols tattooed all over his body, you might not want to risk letting him live as long as the others. And you can make that assumption without knowing what any of his shit actually does.

  49. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Mass repliers should be rounded up, tied to a chair and drowned.

  50. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    I like how you don't refute my point but act like you somehow made one.

    If you're getting ambushed by marauders or bandits, they will go after the easy prey first. It is basic predator instinct.

    Ask me how I know you suck cocks for a living and are still mad that it's no longer the age of tripfags anymore.

  51. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  52. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Ask me how I know you only know what those "traditional games" are via memes
    >mfw in two weekly games and neither are D&D

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Friendly reminder that voices in your head don't qualify as players and neither does "solo RPG" constitute for having games. Another reminder that even masturbation in a cold place is more fun than what you are doing

  53. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Since a Wand of Cure Light Wounds is the most common type of wand, aiming for the person carrying a wand should reduce the likelihood of hitting a 'caster'?

  54. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Mercenary Guild final exam: Which of these do you shoot first?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      second from the right, anyone with bare feet walking through a fucking forest is to powerful to be left alive. Also woman

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Super easy. Second from the right. Its a Drow noble, and half of these monsters are probably its summons.

        Both are rogues. The wizard killed your asses dead with a fireball

        The one with the horn, she's probably an SJW

        After you killed the bard, the wizard turns your corpse into replacement of his fucktoy

        They're all spellcasters.

        But you can only kill one from an ambush and since you hesitated, the chance have passed, both rogues spotted you and now you're dead, too

        Turns out this year gruaduates were all shitters that should have been left in the gutter, rather than wasting time on training.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        did you just assume?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The one with the horn, she's probably an SJW

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They're all spellcasters.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Super easy. Second from the right. Its a Drow noble, and half of these monsters are probably its summons.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I kill myself

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why am I shooting them, and how much am I being paid?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They robbed a noble who was a dick to them. 100gp each plus you keep the the loot and noble's gold if it's on them which is more than the pay. They're all level 3.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          So the noble decided it would be prudent to go the official licensed mercenaries guild of the city that operates in full compliance with the law of the land and attempt to hire an assassin? What an idiot.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Listen, if you're not gonna take the job he's simply gonna go elsewhere. You're just the easiest to access.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It's sort of my duty to the guild to accept the job to his face, get what amounts to a signed confession from him, and then to turn everything over to the law. He should've gone to them first. And if he really had a grievance he could've petitioned the council to pursue a redress of grievances. You can't just walk into the mercenaries guild and declare you want someone murdered. That isn't how this works. In fact, we actually have ongoing contracts with the town guard to act as constabulary, so we can just legally arrest him and beat his ass if he resists.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                He won't resist. Very cordial. Though he won't even spend the night in jail, naturally.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      why does this give me the impression of those globohomo corporate "art" with the purple and pink people?
      Oh shit that's where these fuckers are getting it from, isn't it?

  55. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Remind them high intelligence is required to play high intelligence characters

  56. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Wizard should have had a defensive spell working, Alter Self, Mirror Image, invisibility, Protection frim Missiles or preceeded by an army of skeletons. Noob wanders around with nothing? He deserved to get slotted.

  57. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Yes, the ambushers make a safe assumption to kill the dude who looks like a fragile, explosion throwing wizard

  58. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >NOOOO! WIZARD ALWAYS LOOKS LIKE AN OLD DUDE WITH A BEARD, STAFF AND POINTY HAT HURRR!
    >HE HAS TO, FOR ELSE MY RETARDED BAIT DOESN'T WORK DURRR!
    Remember when realismgayry bait at least had a semblance of situations from actual gameplay?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because it opens up for interesting gameplay strategies you no-fun gay
      >mercenary archers in ambush target my decoy gay old man first since he looks like a fragile, high value target
      >he dies
      >but the real wizard fireballs their formation

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Because it opens up for interesting gameplay
        >Implying you, OP or majority of gays itt ever played
        >Implying "You died in an ambush" is an interesting gameplay
        Good one, you made me chuckle

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >not using an astrally projected mirror image of yourself as a decoy
        >not simply being invisible at all times
        >not reducing yourself to tiny size and riding in someone's saddlebags
        >not hanging out in your private pocket dimension and making another party carry it around
        >walking anywhere in the first place instead of just scry+teleporting

        Bro are you even trying? That's just what I came up with off the top of my head.

  59. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >wizard dresses up in fake armor
    >barbarian wears a robe and wizard hat

  60. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >presumably have a ranger or stealth class in party
    >is in with the group for some reason instead of several minutes ahead to watch for ambushes
    sounds like a player problem

  61. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Imagine being this fucking new, you don't even know the nu-/tg/ solution that's been obsessively reposted circa '16

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      lol so wacly xD

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If you can't even spell properly, don't post

  62. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If they catch you in a preemptive attack they would be unloading multiple volleys of arrows toward your whole party at once you retarded cuck. You just wanted to narrow in on the wizard in particular to le epic trol him. Typical uncreative autist who can only think what is logical in the sense of the rules allow and not even capable of envisioning how such a scenario would pan out in all likelihood.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      *in the sense of what the rules allow

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No really can someone explain why no one ITT bothered pointing out this blatant metagaming shittery besides me? It literally makes no sense for the wizard to become a pincushion while the rest of the party somehow magically comes out completely unscathed in the midst of swathes of arrows flying towards their general direction at once in a coordinated attack, and potentially from multiple directions too.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >can someone explain why no one ITT bothered pointing out this blatant metagaming shittery besides me?

        Similar to here?

        So, like, are we saying it's realistic for npcs/mercs to know that HP is real?

        I mean, if you had 8 crossbowmen with 4 targets wouldn't they realistically try to take down all 4 in the first volley? Instead of thinking "oh, this wizard has 32hp, we better all focus fire him.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Oh alright

          It's not realistic to know HP is real, but it is realistic to know that people can survive getting shot by multiple arrows.

          Brother the whole point of an ambush is to fluster and confuse your enemies while you corner them like rats and quickly wipe them out. By all means, everyone is a target in such a situation, even if your goal is to kill a guy (actually, formation firing sort of necessitates you hit a cone rather than narrowly focusing down a target anyways).

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No really can someone explain why no one ITT bothered pointing out this blatant metagaming shittery besides me? It literally makes no sense for the wizard to become a pincushion while the rest of the party somehow magically comes out completely unscathed in the midst of swathes of arrows flying towards their general direction at once in a coordinated attack, and potentially from multiple directions too.

      Metagaming is having characters act on information that they couldn't possibly know without being aware they're in a game.

      You don't need to know about AC to recognize that some people are better at dodging or tanking arrows than others.
      You don't need to know about HP to recognize that people fight just as effectively in perfect health as they do on the brink of death, and that only the killing blow has a demonstrable effect, so it's better to focus on one target at a time.
      You don't need to know about classes to recognize that spellcasters can be dangerous if they have a chance to cast a spell, and that they tend to take the fewest number of arrows to bring down, so they're the ideal first target.

      If you think in terms of the actual effect that taking certain actions would have, it makes no sense in-universe for a band of mercenaries to spread their attacks equally across the whole party.
      Human opponents should employ tactics that are actually effective.

  63. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You ever tried to get your team in a video game to shoot the healer instead of the tank?
    It's easier said than done to hold your nerve and ignore the big guy attacking you.

  64. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm playing a rogue who purposefully wears a robe and wizard hat because it not only serves the purpose that it lures idiots in to fight the "caster", but no one ever questions what sort of tools and shit you're keeping under them. Even keeps a book full of gibberish to seal the look.

  65. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I take issue with this OP because he did not specify which system he was using to simulate this encounter. While I could assume he is using DnD 5e because that is (until recently) the most popular roleplaying system, the situation the GM listed - that is, enemies operating intelligently and skillfully with deadly weapons - is not a core aspect of DnD 5e. DnD 5e is quasi-superhero power fantasy. It does not command the GM to be smart with their characters.

    This makes me consider other systems that the GM could be running; Hackmaster and Warhammer come immediately to mind. While both systems have frail spellcasters and powerful weapons, this makes me wonder why the Mage player was complaining, since they would have known exactly what they were getting into when designing a character - one does not look at Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay's reputation and CharGen without recognizing you're making a significantly weaker character than DnD 5e.

    Which leads me to the belief that this is all farcical. It was made-up. A spook. Which is fine! But it does compel me to actually say something constructive for anyone who's read this far into my post; when choosing your system to run a campaign, never try to shove a round peg into a square hole. DnD is not conducive to "mudcore." Do not try and make a "tough" campaign in DnD. It does not work ,and there are better systems available that simulate it.

  66. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I thought these games were made for having fun in a group while carefully constructing challenging encounters that can be reasonably approached without declaring actions like an ambush is waiting in every bush so the session takes an hour extra every time.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >carefully constructing
      I just put down whatever makes sense. If you can do that or not depends on how autistic your game itself is about 'encounter balance.' That's where a lot of friction about this comes from.
      >challenging encounters
      Which an ambush would be if run as an encounter and not the vindictive gotcha people are assuming.
      >can be reasonably approached
      Again, If the GM isn't being a gay, an ambush still meets these criteria.
      > every bush
      Hyperbole, but I imagine some GMs are like this. And that some groups enjoy that. I don't judge. Expectations must be managed.
      >takes an hour extra every time.
      If you see some element in the game as a waste of your time, you may be playing the wrong game.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >If you see some element in the game as a waste of your time, you may be playing the wrong game.
        Surely you don't believe this? There is no such thing as taking excessive time doing anything?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I don't believe it as a truly blanket statement; obviously something can drag in an unfun way. But if the prospect of a certain activity at all seems like an excessive waste of time, then yes.
          in brief;
          If this is the fourth time you've been ambushed by basically the same guys tonight and jesus chrst Steve can we do something else already? That's one thing. that's reasonable exhaustion with repetition.
          If you find yourself groaning whenever the GM sets up a combat encounter you didn't expect? Then yeah, you're playing the wrong game. Either as in the product, or in the GM's specific game.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >There is no such thing as taking excessive time doing anything?
          Incorrect. You have a limited number of days before your next session. You have a limited amount of time each day. You can't spend all that time doing GM prep because you have other needs and responsibilities. If you spend too much time prepping one aspect of your game then you won't have enough time to spend on others. Fights only need to be balanced enough that the players have reasonable odds to not get TPK'd.

  67. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    As a DM it is not your job to play the game optimally. It is your job to play the game in an entertaining to receive fashion. It's no achievement to one-turn kill your party when you make up the rules, the setting, the situations they come in. Considering the immense lack of context, it certainly sounds like you didn't disclose that the party was being hunted or that wizards are often high priority targets to human fighters.
    >why would they attack the barbarian or people at random
    Maybe they have a better shot on these "random" party members instead of their specified target when the attack begins? They don't have radios to communicate when everyone has the best shot. And maybe someone thinks that they can debilitate the Barbarian with a poisoned shot or something. The Barbarian has all the health, and you are cheesing him by not engaging him in combat. That's not fun for him.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >As a DM it is not your job to play the game optimally.
      I disagree, it is your job to create scenarios and creatures, then play those scenarios optimally from the opposing force's perspective. That doesn't mean one-round the party from stealth, but it does mean you should be thinking about what the other side's win condition is, when they'll retreat, etc. If they're trained humanoids they should have some kind of plan for victory that isn't entirely unfeasible, even goblins will run away if they don't think they can win.

      But there's a fine line between that and giving all of your NPCs the knowledge you yourself have. Geeking the mage is a classic tactic that every low to mid level group of fighters will understand, because every low to mid level group of PCs understands it. But as other people said, the PCs should have been made aware they were dealing with competent enemies and had a way to avoid springing an ambush where a PC gets killed in the surprise round.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Uhh, sorry sweaty, you need to play all your fights like random final fantasy encounters.

  68. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The fact that nu-/tg/ is entirely unfamiliar with the idea of "geek the mage" is a dire sign of the state of this board.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Implying so hard
      Here, a (You), you seem starved for those.

  69. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    kinda fucked how /tg/ always reduce any conversation into it's two extremes and acknowledge NOTHING in between.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Blatant bait thread
      >Full of even more blatant shitposting
      >conversation

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It can't all be bait.

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *