>it had the amazing mechanics of 2
Like what? The only mechanics I can think of that 3 brought over from 2 specifically is the tranq gun and hanging off ledges which personally I used maybe once in 3
The expanded first-person aiming was great, especially with the larger arsenal and ability to switch fire modes.
Combined with camo and the more varied and interesting levels you played in, it made hunting the enemies a lot of fun.
>Combined with camo and the more varied and interesting levels you played in, it made hunting the enemies a lot of fun.
you just tranq them in the head from across the map just like in the previous game
>dumbest story
It's a pastiche of spy movies, ofc it's silly. If you're not a bond fan or at least tuned into some of those tropes, you probably would think it's dumb. It's really Kojima basically giving a nod to the spy fiction that came before, basically an homage. >dumbest gameplay
If you can't even get the first part, I don't expect you to even remotely get the second part.
>It's a pastiche of spy movies, ofc it's silly. If you're not a bond fan or at least tuned into some of those tropes, you probably would think it's dumb. It's really Kojima basically giving a nod to the spy fiction that came before, basically an homage.
this is what kojimagays actually believe. >just a prank bro >not supposed to take the melodrama seriously bro >hes only pretending to make moronic stories for 12 year olds, bro
what? are you moronic? no one said it's a joke, if it were a joke story it would be a parody or satire, but no, the game relishes in it's references and tropes, making in a pastiche, which can be sincere.
I think you're just another media illiterate moron.
It doesn't say 007 on the cover, it say metal gear solid and the writing quality drops tenfold compared to previous two. something, something, metal gear was a mistake.
Yet, it's still spy fiction...and MGS1 was basically completley marketed as a bond-esque adventure if you look at old convention footage, they even had bond cars at the showings.
>writing is shit >y-yeah b-but it's like them old silly bond flicks! >writing is worse than in previous ones >t-they were also silly bond flicks!
is this brainwashing? like how nanoaids people can't say "patriots"?
says the guy that can't even back that statement up. I don't think you would know good writing if it slapped you in the face with it's wiener.
Keep coping philistine.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
kojima's hapless fans confuse his bombardment of convoluted nonsense with actual storytelling. they get lost in all the minutia and are convinced that because theres so much going on and 9001 hours of codec calls that theres just gotta be something amazing in there.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>convoluted nonsense
I get it now, you have the attention span of a worm.
This moron can't even comprehend the story of the game and then calls it bad.
Yeah I think you just didn't pay attention in English class, if you even speak English as a first language.
The writing in 3 is at least as good as 1 and better than 2. 3 in particular leans into Bond and 60's era cheesiness.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
The second sentence contradics the first
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
The second sentence supports the first. It was going for a specific tone and hit it perfectly. If you don't like what they were going for that's fine.
the writing is shit in all of them
MGS3 biggest problem is the Boss.
The game never gave me a reason to care about her before the big reveal. She's just some literal who jerk that threw you off a cliff for all the player knows. And since I don't care, the twist has no impact and I'm forced to sit through the backstory of a character I don't care about.
The writing is cheesy, intentionally. If you never cared about The Boss I see that as an issue with you.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
This has nothing to do with "cheesiness", the problem with the boss cuts down right to story structure.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I never had the problem you did I guess. I thought it was well presented.
>the le cheesy writing meme
why do you guys keep saying this? the game is presented very seriously. yeah theres some moronic moments like the raiden mask but thats more of a 4th wall joke for the player, not the writing. this just feels like a cop out from people who like the game and feel the need to apologize for the dumb story.
I keep saying it because it's clearly the tone they were going for. Go watch some old 60's spy shit like early Bond and The Avengers, the writing was cheesy by today's standards so they went for a throwback. You can not like it, but not understanding it was a deliberate choice is funny.
Shallow characters isn't a "tone"
lol
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>the le cheesy writing meme
why do you guys keep saying this? the game is presented very seriously. yeah theres some moronic moments like the raiden mask but thats more of a 4th wall joke for the player, not the writing. this just feels like a cop out from people who like the game and feel the need to apologize for the dumb story.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>mfw it was cheese all along
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
It is presented far less seriously than say 1 and 2, which both had some pretty dark moments, meanwhile the darkest moment in MGS3 is the torture of Big Boss, which really just comes off more as character development.
Shallow characters isn't a "tone"
Actually it can be, not every story demands dynamic and complex characters, it's called stripping it down.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Shallow characters isn't a "tone"
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
the writing is shit in all of them
MGS3 biggest problem is the Boss.
The game never gave me a reason to care about her before the big reveal. She's just some literal who jerk that threw you off a cliff for all the player knows. And since I don't care, the twist has no impact and I'm forced to sit through the backstory of a character I don't care about.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
She's literally the bosses mentor and surrogate mother, as well as developing CQC with him. if you didn't care about here that is your fault for not becoming emotionally invested. There would be no Big Boss without the Boss, that's the point.
I personally exhausted all dialogue in the codec with her I could, maybe why I cared more.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>She's literally the bosses mentor and surrogate mother, as well as developing CQC with him.
Which is never really shown. You can't just mention it in an off-hand line and expect the player to care about it.
In fact you know almost nothing about the Boss when she "betrays" you. That happens right in the beginning and has zero impact.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I will give you that none of it is really shown, but neither is Solid Snake and Millers mentorship.
when you meet a soldier your initial thoughts aren't "wonder how their basic training went" you'd be more worried if they had seen combat.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>but neither is Solid Snake and Millers mentorship.
imagine being part of the shadow moses takeover and you see liquid snake tying his hair up, puttin on sunglasses, and using a fake voice. and the most unbelievable part of this is not that hes doing it, but that solid snake, someone who is supposed to be a legendary soldier, gets bamboozled by it.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Agreed. We are told that the Boss and Snake have a deep bond but it's mostly just told to us, not shown. Also the Boss is supposed to have a deep agenda and an ending speech of 15 minutes which is just "USA and Russia were friends during WW2 and in space you see no borders, what happened" but she hardly says anything. I guess they fleshed out her agenda more in later games and spin-offs.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
if you do her codec calls you find out she was at the bikini atoll nuclear test and basically got cancer from it, adding another layer to the melodrama.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Not 100% sure but I think it's mentioned in the last speech that both Boss and Snake are infertile because atom tests or so. It's a theme in MGS that the good guys are not able to have children so they have these deep agendas.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
true, I believe thats where her scars come from.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
No but you are joking.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm not joking, her scars literally come from a C-section of a failed birth.
Her scars are snakes because she is the mother of all snakes.
what part of that is joking.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I think she birthed Ocelot in 1944 but the atom tests were in early 50s tho.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
maybe I'm missing something, I haven't played portable ops or peace walker, or the MSX games.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's revealed in 3, no need to play any of those game. If you call Paramedic at a certain point (can't remember when, probably during one of the times you encounter Ocelot) she'll talk about his background and how he was born on D-Day, on the battlefield, via C-Section.
Things add up and boom, he's the Boss and the Sorrow's baby boy, which is why he can be taken over by Liquids arm (oh wait, that was hypnosis, or was it? Or was it eventually hypnosis? We may never know)
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>she'll talk about his background and how he was born on D-Day, on the battlefield, via C-Section.
imagine fighting on d-day when youre 9 months pregnant. does kojimbo really?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Pretty sure he was a premy baby, but whatever.
One thing that I think most people get wrong (including the wikis) is that Liquid possessing Ocelot in MGS2 was real spiritual possession. The possession is triggered by Solid Snake's presence, and triggering it is the reason he was brought to the Big Shell in the first place.
Ocelot recovered from his possession once he was away from Snake, and then had Liquid's arm replaced with a prosthetic without the Patriots knowing (as seen in MGS4). Ocelot hypnotized himself afterwards in order to trick the Patriots (and himself) into believing he was now permanently possessed by Liquid.
Oh right, I forgot about that, my bad. Yeah, the fact he gets actually possessed, then hypnotizes himself to make him think he's still possessed is... a decision. I guess it was to mask his nanomachines or something? I can't really remember, but I do know it was partially because Liquid was too much of a wildcard and he needed his plan to execute perfectly.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Where do they come from then?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>gave me a reason to care about her before
Here's my 2 cents. Who fricking cares about her? You care about John. You go the whole game with him, and here what he was to say/feel about her. She ironically nothing but a tool, both narratively and meta'ly, to help you connect with John so the end scene of his tears works.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I didn't care about second rate Solid Snake, he only opens his mouth to eat or to ask how something tastes. Worse than my ex.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I was 16 or so when this came out and laughed my ass off every time the Boss came on screen because I couldn’t suspend my disbelief that some soccer mom lookin broad was the greatest warrior who ever lived. Literally felt nothing pulling the trigger on her and never really got into their story at all.
Because Gen-Xers and millennialgays were gameplaygays. Things changed with zoomergays who grew up to be storygays, vibegays, creepypastagays, liminalgays, and thus they can't understand the genius of MGS3
jumping and coomlecting goyins is fun
crawling and checking menus every 3 minutes isn't
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>jump >get big >collect coins
wow intense memorable gameplay
You're both moronic children, now go clean your rooms or the SNES and the psx are getting taken away.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>checking menus every 3 minutes isn't
This is a skill issue; a good player has to use the menus maybe 3 times over an entire playthrough....You're a classic example of "mad cause bad"
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
well, those are the cool new mechanics like camo, limited inventory with a limitless backpack, food and healing
but sure, you can just crawl and tranq your way through the whole game
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I go cqc with a shotgun and grenades for fun time happy hour.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>you can just crawl and tranq your way through the whole game
Yes, the optimal way to play it.
Actually the structure of self-encapsulate Worlds in SMB3 was an early example of the medium addressing the advent of radicalized echo chambers and its consequences. Kojima just dumbed down that sort of thing for pseuds.
It had gimmicky boss fights, but apart from that very little.
In MGS3 you get rail shooting segments and tunnel exploration on top of the gimmicky boss fights.
The vast majority of MGS1 is gimmick sections, there's maybe like 2 or 3 conventional stealth screens in the game, and most mechanics are used for only one screen. MGS1 has the worst gameplay in the series. >In MGS3 you get rail shooting segments
Which is a callback to the rail shooting segment in MGS1
These shmucks are just nostalgia-blinded >MGS1 is a perfectly serious masterpiece with 0 filler or gimmicks
just off the top of my head I can think of the part where you have to keep the chip cold.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
That didn't have any gimmicky gameplay.
It was just backtracking using the core gameplay mechanics.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Temperature is not a mechanic, it's a gimmick applying to one specific item at one specific point in the game to force pointless backtracking and padding
Yes it's crazy how big this game felt back in the days, meanwhile there were, what, 20 guards in the ENTIRE game? MGS1 is essentialy a boss rush with backtracking to open higher level security doors each time your keycard gets an upgrade
>Why is 3 considered by so many to be the best one?
because its for normies. normies dont care about gameplay, they care about minigames, as much meaningless content as possible, and realism slop. all of mgs3's moronic mechanics sounded awesome when i read about them in magazines, but then you actually play the game and realize that all these things are not actually fun, dont add anything to the gameplay experience, but hey, drooling normies love being "immersed".
They’re either kiddies who can’t in2 4th gen graphics to play the superior MGS1, or they have parental issues and actually think the story is good.
I'm 25 y/o gen z, I've played all the games (sans the portable and MSX games) and I still prefer 3 for a number of reasons, tho I do still love MGS1.
I like the fictional setting of a jungle in Russia, as a history/geography guy I find it really cool.
I like the corny spy pastiche story which is a nice change of pace from how dower some of the rest of the series can be.
I like the time period of the early 60s and they really went all in on that with research too.
Survival mechanics are fun and gives weight to your choices.
Honestly everyone saying this game is for "the kids" or "the normies" puts far too much stock in their own opinions and should maybe consider removing their head from their rectal cavity before you get methane poisoning. Also, I've met plenty of gen Z that prefer 1 over any others.
https://i.imgur.com/o9sVWRJ.jpeg
Why is 3 considered by so many to be the best one?
I think framing this as people putting MGS3 on a pedestal is wrong, and if not, then it is bait. I think a lot of people personally enjoy the game, but I don't see *that* many people say it's literally the best one in the series.
Are you moronic? 1 and 2 were way more linear than 3.... shit, half of 1 and 2 were just backtracking and going down the same linear hallways a second time. Storywise, MGS3 is just a more sophisticated version of the original Metal Gear's plotline which is a previous game. What a stupid post...
To be fair, every metal gear game up to peace walker has the exact same broad story beats. The “meta” story of MGS2 was literally the second out of about 5 retellings of Metal Gear 2’s story.
Sure, but there's reusing beats and then there's recreating the same storyline. MGS2 reuses OG MG moments like using a disguise to infiltrate and being told to turn the game off, and MGS1 is a Greatest Hits collection of MG2SS, but the story of MGS3 is literally the plot of MG1 in a different flavor. >rookie operative named Snake who's part of a US outfit with a fox logo >has a mentor with "Boss" in their name >sent into an enemy compound to rescue a slavic scientist forced to work on a secret super weapon >uses a disguise to blend in with the enemy until their cover is blown >mentor betrays them and has to be defeated >super weapon destroyed and snake is left disillusioned
MGS3 obviously has more subtleties under the hood than MG1, but the skeleton is the same.
story progression is largely linear but you can still move around the game world pretty freely, grabbing weapons/items and whatnot. contrast that with a game like syphon filter where you are just going through individual levels
>story progression is largely linear but you can still move around the game world pretty freely, grabbing weapons/items and whatnot
bro you just described every linear game. What are you even trying to say? What game does not allow you to freely move around the game world except rail shooters and 2d games?
>What game does not allow you to freely move around the game world except rail shooters and 2d games?
i literally gave you an example in my post you actual tard.
Syphon Filter fills all the same boxs, dumbass. Talk about self-defeating arguement.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>MGS1 is better than Syphon Filter because you can backtrack
Genius.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
i accept your concession that my point had nothing to do with either game's worth but rather the difference in how the worlds are structured, so you had to create a strawman argument in a last ditch attempt to be right
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Which still means nothing...this is a non-point, it's not even strawman you just have nothing to say of substance.
>Why is 3 considered by so many to be the best one?
because of the ladder scene. thats literally it. this game is not even playable because of the shitty frame rate.
Because consumers feel the compulsion to think of "bests" for some reason, despite picking them among sets of very different experiences, each with its own non-overlapping quality and value.
i like how kojima was still blatantly ripping off 80s movies even in 2004 when he became normie's vidya god. the fight with The Fury is lifted straight out of The Running Man.
what if we...cut mgs2's frame rate in half, kept the exact same gameplay, but made the corridors bigger and with a skybox instead of a roof, and added a menu simulator where you pick the camo that matches the color of the screen youre on. but wait - theres also a menu simulator where you can heal your shortened health bar! you can pretend youre treating a wound during the 3 seconds where youre mashing!
Still waiting for the remake to see if they still allow you to pause the game and change the camo and heal wounds even while on full alert and during boss fights.
That's what I heard last fall and they said they were going to use only the original voice lines. I'm kind of wondering why I should buy a 1:1 remake if I already have the original on PS2 or I can buy HD on PS3 or just emulate.
>Why is 3 considered by so many to be the best one?
because its for normies. normies dont care about gameplay, they care about minigames, as much meaningless content as possible, and realism slop. all of mgs3's moronic mechanics sounded awesome when i read about them in magazines, but then you actually play the game and realize that all these things are not actually fun, dont add anything to the gameplay experience, but hey, drooling normies love being "immersed".
It's the best because it's so modern you are not just staring at polygons and you can also play and understand it without knowing the series. MGS1 is also good because you can play it without knowing about the series if you can handle the older graphics. Also the jungle in 3 is interesting and appears to be open even if you are mostly just heading north the whole game.
>apologist
there is nothing to apologize for or even make up >serial plagerizer and fraud
he's not doing anything different from any other auteur >crying this hard about kojima and trying to frame anyone that even remotely likes a game he made as mentally ill
what is there really to say except take your meds.
I blame it on either: >first one they played >the only game in the series where you almost exclusively sneak from screen to screen (no gimmicks/random challenges that aren't sneaking)
People felt uncomfortable with 2 because they thought mgs1 was a little silly but not meant as an actual joke on its players, while twin snakes and 2 make it very obvious
MGS3 is the first one where everyone was sure it was a joke from the start and they felt comfortable being "in on it"
What are you even talking about? The tone being a bit goofy at times doesn't make the game a joke. It's weird how some people with no imagination just get mindbroken at silly Japanese sensibilities or the Rule of Cool...
Seriously, what is with people calling these games stories "jokes" in this thread? Each game has a pretty serious theme in it.
MGS1: the glorification of war is wrong and enjoying media that does may say something about you that you do not like.
MGS2: world governments will continue to manipulate information at an increasing rate until we are unable to discern fiction from reality.
MGS3: The government will use you, break you down, and spit you out when they are done with you, world governments do not care about people, only agendas.
etc.etc.
Just because these games have a sense of humor doesn't mean they aren't meant to be taken seriously, at least in their messaging.
All humor in has been retroactively tainted by modern western movies/tv. So, when confronted with any humous moment, even from something pre-taint, the immediate response these tards have is revulsion
In the PSX/early PS2 era it was still very easy to confuse garbled localization and jap sensibilities as games being moronic rather than intentionally joking
E.g. is Resident Evil actually moronic light novel garbage or B-movie based jokes? How aware were they that the re1 intro would make anglos fall out laughing? I'm still not sure
MGS3 is one of the earlier games people took just like anglo origin media and we're 100% in on the joke from the first frame
>How aware were they that the re1 intro would make anglos fall out laughing?
they probably werent aware of it at all. i cant infer anything when i listen to japanese people talk. i would have no way to judge the nuance of a VA performance. for all i know they could be intentionally trying to sound moronic and i would have no idea. i very much doubt they intended the game to be humorous in that regard.
In the PSX/early PS2 era it was still very easy to confuse garbled localization and jap sensibilities as games being moronic rather than intentionally joking
E.g. is Resident Evil actually moronic light novel garbage or B-movie based jokes? How aware were they that the re1 intro would make anglos fall out laughing? I'm still not sure
MGS3 is one of the earlier games people took just like anglo origin media and we're 100% in on the joke from the first frame
They may or may not be aware that most western horror movies are viewed in very different ways. It's probably around a 50/50 split between people who watch them "seriously" for the horror scares and wanting to be frightened and half people who watch ironically and laugh at the stupid situations characters in horror movies tend to get in. That combined with not understanding camp in general probably made them think all western horror is serious so they assume what they see in it must be super scary to Americans but what comes out just looks silly more than anything else.
Ok, take the opposite. RE4 is really obviously joking to anyone playing it now, but at the time people weren't sure if it was accidentally moronic like RE1's intro, or maybe that it was just localizers making a joke out of a game intended to be serious (ignore the giant robot).
Crossing this boundary in the 2000s is how jap media really became fine with anglos beyond almost any other foreign culture media
That is true, but also is because prefered the variety of the jungle/mountain/swamp stages of metal gear 3 instead of the boring same-looking and small metal rooms of metal gear 2
do you guys actually watch the cutscenes and listen to the code calls when you replay these games? yeah, i liked this shit when i was an adolescent, but i really cant imagine doing this now. if you take away the stories, i think mgs2 has the best gameplay by far. 60fps and the game looked and was one of the few early PS2 games that actually felt next gen. as has been said, mgs1 was mostly gimmicks and set piece slop. yes, we all loved it at the time, because we didnt know movie games would ruin everything. mgs3 was basically just a shitty version of mgs2 with bad performance and unnecessary survival shit that didnt actually add anything to the game.
It's genuinely a skill issue. All these complaints about incessant menu usage means they constantly need to heal from damage taken or need to eat because they take too long crawling through bushes. It's ironic because 3 is probably the easiest of the classic MGS games and they're still struggling.
no one "struggles" with the survival viewer, moron. its just pointless because all it is a pointless layer of obfuscation to restore your lifebar to full. any "injury" you get in the game is not really an injury at all. it just lowers your lifebar. if your arm is broken, you can still use it the same as if it wasnt broken. but if you want full life, you have to open the moronic menu and use the items. no one even looks at what item theyre using. you just spam all of them because it only uses what is required for that particular injury. its a needless system that only normies and morons like because they feel like theyre treating a heckin injury.
This just sounds like cope for a bad mechanic. Maybe they should have just made injury be an instant game over instead?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Being seen as a condition for Game Over covers that for the most part outside of boss fights. Good players have to navigate the menus a total of maybe 5 times over an entire playthrough. Menus aren't inherently enjoyable and I wouldn't particularly miss them if they were gone but the bullshit complaint that you have to stop every 30 seconds and spam every item in the menu is genuinely the result of bad players being stupid.
I think only a tiny handful of autists replay Metal Gear games. Some might do a higher challenge level if they didn't play on Extreme to start, but in general it's a series that isn't meant to be replayed a ton.
>it's a series that isn't meant to be replayed a ton.
This is bullshit. The games have content only awarded after playthroughs, sometimes multiple. The second game specifically has the dogtag hunt that requires different difficulties and VR missions with timers to encourage optimal runs and 3 has multiple equipment locked behind NG+. Casual gamers might not replay it but they don't replay anything except maybe Candy Crush or Bloons.
This is pretty much correct especially about 1 being groundbreaking and now looking like shit I think 2 aged the best and was my favorite at release despite everybody hating it for Raiden. My ranking is 2>1>3 but 3 is still really good and more replayable than 1.
I actually like 1 more than twin snakes...and most people I know also agree. All the mgs2 makes the game too easy, and the insane cutscenes are just....idk lame.
I think the cutscenes work if you look at the game as Otacon retelling the events to Sunny or something. Having said that, the game was never re-balanced for the addition of first-person aiming.
Other than that, none of the other included features really mess with the game enough to matter.
I'm just mad that it will forever be stuck on Gamecube and hasn't even been and never will be ported to Wii/Wii U/Switch, but I guess that's what emulation is for.
Atmosphere
Variety
Survival elements
Amazing Graphics
Lots of replayability alongside different playstyles
Very satisfying hardcore mode (aka European Extreme)
Fun online play
Very fun boss battles
Kojima's absolute insistence to retcon literally everything remotely supernatural to just be "lol nanomachines, son" "lol wolbachia code talker b***h" is aggravating.
The fact that The End's photosynthesis was just a bacteria that only he was afflicted by, then later on was studied and manipulated into whatever the frick is... frustrating.
Like, we can have Psycho Mantis and The Sorrow be supernatural, but nothing else is allowed to be?
Oh and then Fortune miraculously having her powers be real (maybe) right as she's about to die is fricking obnoxious, too.
One thing that I think most people get wrong (including the wikis) is that Liquid possessing Ocelot in MGS2 was real spiritual possession. The possession is triggered by Solid Snake's presence, and triggering it is the reason he was brought to the Big Shell in the first place.
Ocelot recovered from his possession once he was away from Snake, and then had Liquid's arm replaced with a prosthetic without the Patriots knowing (as seen in MGS4). Ocelot hypnotized himself afterwards in order to trick the Patriots (and himself) into believing he was now permanently possessed by Liquid.
Big Boss in MGS4 says something how they can't transplant someone's will and personality to another's even with nanomachines, then he says under certain conditions someone can be made to act as another and the X button flashback shows specifically Ocelot in MGS2 being taken over by Liquid.
Plus, if the arm wasn't actually taking him over why would he replace it with some robotic arm?
[...]
Oh right, I forgot about that, my bad. Yeah, the fact he gets actually possessed, then hypnotizes himself to make him think he's still possessed is... a decision. I guess it was to mask his nanomachines or something? I can't really remember, but I do know it was partially because Liquid was too much of a wildcard and he needed his plan to execute perfectly.
If everyone and all the wikis get it wrong, what's your basis for that being the actual truth and not your headcanon?
Big Boss in MGS4 says something how they can't transplant someone's will and personality to another's even with nanomachines, then he says under certain conditions someone can be made to act as another and the X button flashback shows specifically Ocelot in MGS2 being taken over by Liquid.
Plus, if the arm wasn't actually taking him over why would he replace it with some robotic arm?
The funny thing is that it doesn't really matter if it was hypnosis or possession or nanomachines, because Ocelot's entire mind and personality was still transformed into Liquid's... so either way it's just Liquid except one explanation is convoluted and confusing.
it's the most consistently good one from A-Z. not perfect but it has less obnoxious shit like MGS2. it's the most fun to replay because it has the most variety, the first two games are just too 'on rails' and don't have as many mechanics or items to play with.
The real reason it's popular is that its merits as a moviegame balanced against a real game are in perfect harmony, but you have to like moviegames. People talk the gameplay up to be way more than it is after it became cool to shit on moviegames.
It has neat story, without too much convulted philosophical meta bullshit, it finally doesn't happen just in fricking corridors, codec conversations don't go on for 5 hours and survival elements work well together with cool stealth system. The only problems it had were with camera, but that has been solved in subsistence version.
Three has the best cutscenes and cinematic animation. It has the best music. That’s all people think about. The forest areas are bland and not really huge. All the weopons and tech are downgraded compared to 1 and 2.
MGS2 is a masterpiece. Yea it’s mostly on an oil rig and a ship, but it’s got more stuff in it.
The quality difference from 1 to 2 is incredible and seems almost impossible they could put as much detail into a new system and launch that game on time.
With three I think it was focused on emulating movies. The fourth one just has bad story scenes and forgettable areas. The online was awesome.
The amount of time and detail they put into #2 is just crazy.
Kojima was on fire in the PS2 days. TECHNOLOGY out the ass, super fun gameplay, and he had the other guy editing his writing so his cool ideas weren’t getting overridden by his autism. The first three Solids are all 10/10s but to varying degrees. 2 and 3 are both just a little better than 1, but I think they’re both pretty much equal to each other.
As someone who preordered Twin Snakes due to being a huge MGS1 fan, the game was like a 3/10 at best.
Everything besides the polycount and resolution are straight downgrades or just ridiculous/insulting. The voice acting was the worst part for me though because MGS1's VA work is legendary; in TTS everyone sounds bored or sedated.
The scene where Otacon's face gets close to the codec to tell you about the stealthed guys in the elevator was the exact moment I turned on the game forever. The line was delivered so flatly and emotionlessly that I couldn't believe that this game had a voice acting director.
For me it's when you first meet Vulcan Raven and in the original Snake has that great quip about how he must be a real terror in the muktuk eating contest and not only do they both sound bored as frick, but the whole line is taken out.
Playing mgs1's tl is whiplash inducing if you've gotten used to the direction and localization of the later games, there are lines delivered like a human being might think of and say them sometimes
Because it had the amazing mechanics of 2 without making you feel confined to a series of hallways (even if you really still were).
>it had the amazing mechanics of 2
Like what? The only mechanics I can think of that 3 brought over from 2 specifically is the tranq gun and hanging off ledges which personally I used maybe once in 3
The expanded first-person aiming was great, especially with the larger arsenal and ability to switch fire modes.
Combined with camo and the more varied and interesting levels you played in, it made hunting the enemies a lot of fun.
>Combined with camo and the more varied and interesting levels you played in, it made hunting the enemies a lot of fun.
you just tranq them in the head from across the map just like in the previous game
Nah, that sounds boring.
>his brain allows him to play games inefficiently in order to have more fun
normies out
It doesn't sound like you've actually played the game. There are usually obstacles or foliage in the way.
the levels are tiny, all those half-baked mechanics only really shine in MGS4 (first two acts)
I was going to answer the same. Plus, i loved how most of the bosses represent a human feeling/emotion.
dumbest story and dumbest gameplay
dummy dummy dummy dummy dummy
>dumbest story
It's a pastiche of spy movies, ofc it's silly. If you're not a bond fan or at least tuned into some of those tropes, you probably would think it's dumb. It's really Kojima basically giving a nod to the spy fiction that came before, basically an homage.
>dumbest gameplay
If you can't even get the first part, I don't expect you to even remotely get the second part.
>It's a pastiche of spy movies, ofc it's silly. If you're not a bond fan or at least tuned into some of those tropes, you probably would think it's dumb. It's really Kojima basically giving a nod to the spy fiction that came before, basically an homage.
this is what kojimagays actually believe.
>just a prank bro
>not supposed to take the melodrama seriously bro
>hes only pretending to make moronic stories for 12 year olds, bro
what? are you moronic? no one said it's a joke, if it were a joke story it would be a parody or satire, but no, the game relishes in it's references and tropes, making in a pastiche, which can be sincere.
I think you're just another media illiterate moron.
>pastiche
Did you just learn this word? Stop fricking spamming it for the love of frick.
>noo don't call something what it is! stupid people like me might not understand!
read a book asswipe
It doesn't say 007 on the cover, it say metal gear solid and the writing quality drops tenfold compared to previous two. something, something, metal gear was a mistake.
Yet, it's still spy fiction...and MGS1 was basically completley marketed as a bond-esque adventure if you look at old convention footage, they even had bond cars at the showings.
>writing is shit
>y-yeah b-but it's like them old silly bond flicks!
>writing is worse than in previous ones
>t-they were also silly bond flicks!
is this brainwashing? like how nanoaids people can't say "patriots"?
>writing is shit
subjective.
coward
says the guy that can't even back that statement up. I don't think you would know good writing if it slapped you in the face with it's wiener.
Keep coping philistine.
kojima's hapless fans confuse his bombardment of convoluted nonsense with actual storytelling. they get lost in all the minutia and are convinced that because theres so much going on and 9001 hours of codec calls that theres just gotta be something amazing in there.
>convoluted nonsense
I get it now, you have the attention span of a worm.
This moron can't even comprehend the story of the game and then calls it bad.
Yeah I think you just didn't pay attention in English class, if you even speak English as a first language.
The writing in 3 is at least as good as 1 and better than 2. 3 in particular leans into Bond and 60's era cheesiness.
The second sentence contradics the first
The second sentence supports the first. It was going for a specific tone and hit it perfectly. If you don't like what they were going for that's fine.
The writing is cheesy, intentionally. If you never cared about The Boss I see that as an issue with you.
This has nothing to do with "cheesiness", the problem with the boss cuts down right to story structure.
I never had the problem you did I guess. I thought it was well presented.
I keep saying it because it's clearly the tone they were going for. Go watch some old 60's spy shit like early Bond and The Avengers, the writing was cheesy by today's standards so they went for a throwback. You can not like it, but not understanding it was a deliberate choice is funny.
lol
>the le cheesy writing meme
why do you guys keep saying this? the game is presented very seriously. yeah theres some moronic moments like the raiden mask but thats more of a 4th wall joke for the player, not the writing. this just feels like a cop out from people who like the game and feel the need to apologize for the dumb story.
>mfw it was cheese all along
It is presented far less seriously than say 1 and 2, which both had some pretty dark moments, meanwhile the darkest moment in MGS3 is the torture of Big Boss, which really just comes off more as character development.
Actually it can be, not every story demands dynamic and complex characters, it's called stripping it down.
Shallow characters isn't a "tone"
the writing is shit in all of them
MGS3 biggest problem is the Boss.
The game never gave me a reason to care about her before the big reveal. She's just some literal who jerk that threw you off a cliff for all the player knows. And since I don't care, the twist has no impact and I'm forced to sit through the backstory of a character I don't care about.
She's literally the bosses mentor and surrogate mother, as well as developing CQC with him. if you didn't care about here that is your fault for not becoming emotionally invested. There would be no Big Boss without the Boss, that's the point.
I personally exhausted all dialogue in the codec with her I could, maybe why I cared more.
>She's literally the bosses mentor and surrogate mother, as well as developing CQC with him.
Which is never really shown. You can't just mention it in an off-hand line and expect the player to care about it.
In fact you know almost nothing about the Boss when she "betrays" you. That happens right in the beginning and has zero impact.
I will give you that none of it is really shown, but neither is Solid Snake and Millers mentorship.
when you meet a soldier your initial thoughts aren't "wonder how their basic training went" you'd be more worried if they had seen combat.
>but neither is Solid Snake and Millers mentorship.
imagine being part of the shadow moses takeover and you see liquid snake tying his hair up, puttin on sunglasses, and using a fake voice. and the most unbelievable part of this is not that hes doing it, but that solid snake, someone who is supposed to be a legendary soldier, gets bamboozled by it.
Agreed. We are told that the Boss and Snake have a deep bond but it's mostly just told to us, not shown. Also the Boss is supposed to have a deep agenda and an ending speech of 15 minutes which is just "USA and Russia were friends during WW2 and in space you see no borders, what happened" but she hardly says anything. I guess they fleshed out her agenda more in later games and spin-offs.
if you do her codec calls you find out she was at the bikini atoll nuclear test and basically got cancer from it, adding another layer to the melodrama.
Not 100% sure but I think it's mentioned in the last speech that both Boss and Snake are infertile because atom tests or so. It's a theme in MGS that the good guys are not able to have children so they have these deep agendas.
true, I believe thats where her scars come from.
No but you are joking.
I'm not joking, her scars literally come from a C-section of a failed birth.
Her scars are snakes because she is the mother of all snakes.
what part of that is joking.
I think she birthed Ocelot in 1944 but the atom tests were in early 50s tho.
maybe I'm missing something, I haven't played portable ops or peace walker, or the MSX games.
It's revealed in 3, no need to play any of those game. If you call Paramedic at a certain point (can't remember when, probably during one of the times you encounter Ocelot) she'll talk about his background and how he was born on D-Day, on the battlefield, via C-Section.
Things add up and boom, he's the Boss and the Sorrow's baby boy, which is why he can be taken over by Liquids arm (oh wait, that was hypnosis, or was it? Or was it eventually hypnosis? We may never know)
>she'll talk about his background and how he was born on D-Day, on the battlefield, via C-Section.
imagine fighting on d-day when youre 9 months pregnant. does kojimbo really?
Pretty sure he was a premy baby, but whatever.
Oh right, I forgot about that, my bad. Yeah, the fact he gets actually possessed, then hypnotizes himself to make him think he's still possessed is... a decision. I guess it was to mask his nanomachines or something? I can't really remember, but I do know it was partially because Liquid was too much of a wildcard and he needed his plan to execute perfectly.
Where do they come from then?
>gave me a reason to care about her before
Here's my 2 cents. Who fricking cares about her? You care about John. You go the whole game with him, and here what he was to say/feel about her. She ironically nothing but a tool, both narratively and meta'ly, to help you connect with John so the end scene of his tears works.
I didn't care about second rate Solid Snake, he only opens his mouth to eat or to ask how something tastes. Worse than my ex.
I was 16 or so when this came out and laughed my ass off every time the Boss came on screen because I couldn’t suspend my disbelief that some soccer mom lookin broad was the greatest warrior who ever lived. Literally felt nothing pulling the trigger on her and never really got into their story at all.
Because Gen-Xers and millennialgays were gameplaygays. Things changed with zoomergays who grew up to be storygays, vibegays, creepypastagays, liminalgays, and thus they can't understand the genius of MGS3
So true sister!
But MGS3's gameplay is a step down from 1 with way too many scripted gimmick sections and useless crap like the camo and first aid system.
>But MGS3's gameplay is a step down from 1
No.
>tranq dart
>cqc slam
>crawl
cool gameplay, what's next? laying eggs?
>jump
>get big
>collect coins
wow intense memorable gameplay
jumping and coomlecting goyins is fun
crawling and checking menus every 3 minutes isn't
You're both moronic children, now go clean your rooms or the SNES and the psx are getting taken away.
>checking menus every 3 minutes isn't
This is a skill issue; a good player has to use the menus maybe 3 times over an entire playthrough....You're a classic example of "mad cause bad"
well, those are the cool new mechanics like camo, limited inventory with a limitless backpack, food and healing
but sure, you can just crawl and tranq your way through the whole game
I go cqc with a shotgun and grenades for fun time happy hour.
>you can just crawl and tranq your way through the whole game
Yes, the optimal way to play it.
Actually the structure of self-encapsulate Worlds in SMB3 was an early example of the medium addressing the advent of radicalized echo chambers and its consequences. Kojima just dumbed down that sort of thing for pseuds.
>step down from 1
>too many scripted gimmick sections
What do you think 1 was? Have you ever played 1?
It had gimmicky boss fights, but apart from that very little.
In MGS3 you get rail shooting segments and tunnel exploration on top of the gimmicky boss fights.
>In MGS3 you get rail shooting segments
the final boss in mgs1 is literally a rail shooting segment
Yes, I mentioned gimmicky boss fights.
The vast majority of MGS1 is gimmick sections, there's maybe like 2 or 3 conventional stealth screens in the game, and most mechanics are used for only one screen. MGS1 has the worst gameplay in the series.
>In MGS3 you get rail shooting segments
Which is a callback to the rail shooting segment in MGS1
These shmucks are just nostalgia-blinded
>MGS1 is a perfectly serious masterpiece with 0 filler or gimmicks
just off the top of my head I can think of the part where you have to keep the chip cold.
That didn't have any gimmicky gameplay.
It was just backtracking using the core gameplay mechanics.
Temperature is not a mechanic, it's a gimmick applying to one specific item at one specific point in the game to force pointless backtracking and padding
Yes it's crazy how big this game felt back in the days, meanwhile there were, what, 20 guards in the ENTIRE game? MGS1 is essentialy a boss rush with backtracking to open higher level security doors each time your keycard gets an upgrade
>MGS1 has the worst gameplay in the series.
Are you including the MSX games in that statement?
No, MG1 is certainly worse. Not sure about MG2.
what a moron kek
even those shitty ports of mg1 and 2 were the best part of mgs3 subsistence
>MGS3's gameplay is a step down from 1
I'm 25 y/o gen z, I've played all the games (sans the portable and MSX games) and I still prefer 3 for a number of reasons, tho I do still love MGS1.
I like the fictional setting of a jungle in Russia, as a history/geography guy I find it really cool.
I like the corny spy pastiche story which is a nice change of pace from how dower some of the rest of the series can be.
I like the time period of the early 60s and they really went all in on that with research too.
Survival mechanics are fun and gives weight to your choices.
Honestly everyone saying this game is for "the kids" or "the normies" puts far too much stock in their own opinions and should maybe consider removing their head from their rectal cavity before you get methane poisoning. Also, I've met plenty of gen Z that prefer 1 over any others.
I think framing this as people putting MGS3 on a pedestal is wrong, and if not, then it is bait. I think a lot of people personally enjoy the game, but I don't see *that* many people say it's literally the best one in the series.
Then I guess I'm a 40 year old zoomer.
morons got mindbroken by the fact you play as (a) Snake that they forgot it's linear and the story says nothing. MGS2 trounces this any day
>they forgot it's linear and the story says nothing
Who gives a shit?
People who liked the previous games...
Are you moronic? 1 and 2 were way more linear than 3.... shit, half of 1 and 2 were just backtracking and going down the same linear hallways a second time. Storywise, MGS3 is just a more sophisticated version of the original Metal Gear's plotline which is a previous game. What a stupid post...
To be fair, every metal gear game up to peace walker has the exact same broad story beats. The “meta” story of MGS2 was literally the second out of about 5 retellings of Metal Gear 2’s story.
Sure, but there's reusing beats and then there's recreating the same storyline. MGS2 reuses OG MG moments like using a disguise to infiltrate and being told to turn the game off, and MGS1 is a Greatest Hits collection of MG2SS, but the story of MGS3 is literally the plot of MG1 in a different flavor.
>rookie operative named Snake who's part of a US outfit with a fox logo
>has a mentor with "Boss" in their name
>sent into an enemy compound to rescue a slavic scientist forced to work on a secret super weapon
>uses a disguise to blend in with the enemy until their cover is blown
>mentor betrays them and has to be defeated
>super weapon destroyed and snake is left disillusioned
MGS3 obviously has more subtleties under the hood than MG1, but the skeleton is the same.
>forgot it's linear
Games can be linear and good. Who thinks any MGS isn't linear aside from V?
story progression is largely linear but you can still move around the game world pretty freely, grabbing weapons/items and whatnot. contrast that with a game like syphon filter where you are just going through individual levels
>story progression is largely linear but you can still move around the game world pretty freely, grabbing weapons/items and whatnot
bro you just described every linear game. What are you even trying to say? What game does not allow you to freely move around the game world except rail shooters and 2d games?
>What game does not allow you to freely move around the game world except rail shooters and 2d games?
i literally gave you an example in my post you actual tard.
Syphon Filter fills all the same boxs, dumbass. Talk about self-defeating arguement.
>MGS1 is better than Syphon Filter because you can backtrack
Genius.
i accept your concession that my point had nothing to do with either game's worth but rather the difference in how the worlds are structured, so you had to create a strawman argument in a last ditch attempt to be right
Which still means nothing...this is a non-point, it's not even strawman you just have nothing to say of substance.
>Why is 3 considered by so many to be the best one?
because of the ladder scene. thats literally it. this game is not even playable because of the shitty frame rate.
>lil zoomy zoom zoom b***hboy pussy c**tgay zoomerino gets filtered by 30 fps
sadge
Because consumers feel the compulsion to think of "bests" for some reason, despite picking them among sets of very different experiences, each with its own non-overlapping quality and value.
i like how kojima was still blatantly ripping off 80s movies even in 2004 when he became normie's vidya god. the fight with The Fury is lifted straight out of The Running Man.
He's still doing this
Death Stranding looks like Prometheus/Covenant
Hey I just remembered I bought the 3DS version 12 years ago and never got around to play it.
I have never watched a Metal Gear movie and I never will.
Based. People who believe you need to actually pay any sort of attention to what you have angry entrenched opinions about are just COWARDS.
it really is a franchise you can just watch lets plays off and get the "full experience"
5 is actually pretty fun if you like collecting weapons and vehicles
what if we...cut mgs2's frame rate in half, kept the exact same gameplay, but made the corridors bigger and with a skybox instead of a roof, and added a menu simulator where you pick the camo that matches the color of the screen youre on. but wait - theres also a menu simulator where you can heal your shortened health bar! you can pretend youre treating a wound during the 3 seconds where youre mashing!
Not so much a menu simulator as an actual menu.
>you pick the camo that matches the color of the screen youre on
not even that, you pick the one with a higher number
camo was such a cool mechanic
Still waiting for the remake to see if they still allow you to pause the game and change the camo and heal wounds even while on full alert and during boss fights.
It’s the same game with different graphics.
That's what I heard last fall and they said they were going to use only the original voice lines. I'm kind of wondering why I should buy a 1:1 remake if I already have the original on PS2 or I can buy HD on PS3 or just emulate.
>Why is 3 considered by so many to be the best one?
because its for normies. normies dont care about gameplay, they care about minigames, as much meaningless content as possible, and realism slop. all of mgs3's moronic mechanics sounded awesome when i read about them in magazines, but then you actually play the game and realize that all these things are not actually fun, dont add anything to the gameplay experience, but hey, drooling normies love being "immersed".
Because it’s amazing, but you’re missing out if you don’t play the Subsistence version.
For me it's
MGS2 Tanker chapter > MGS3 > VR missions from MGS2 Substance >>>>>>> MGS2 Plant chapter
It's the best because it's so modern you are not just staring at polygons and you can also play and understand it without knowing the series. MGS1 is also good because you can play it without knowing about the series if you can handle the older graphics. Also the jungle in 3 is interesting and appears to be open even if you are mostly just heading north the whole game.
They’re either kiddies who can’t in2 4th gen graphics to play the superior MGS1, or they have parental issues and actually think the story is good.
People like the CQB even though I personally think the control scheme is garbage.
say pastiche again
you gain 1 iq point each time you say it
>moron thinks pastiche is a big word
no wonder you dislike this game, you're literally mentally handicapped.
id say being an apologist for a serial plagiarizer and fraud because you like his stupid vidya game is more indicative of mental issues
>apologist
there is nothing to apologize for or even make up
>serial plagerizer and fraud
he's not doing anything different from any other auteur
>crying this hard about kojima and trying to frame anyone that even remotely likes a game he made as mentally ill
what is there really to say except take your meds.
I blame it on either:
>first one they played
>the only game in the series where you almost exclusively sneak from screen to screen (no gimmicks/random challenges that aren't sneaking)
It's easily the worst of the trilogy.
reminder that kojima invented cryptocurrency 4 years before bitcoin
because all Movie Game Slop (retro and not-retrp) titles had shit gameplay and shit story except for this one, it had good gameplay and shit story
I like MG2, MGS1 and MGS3 equally. MGS1 is the weakest of the three gameplay-wise though. Or I don't know, maybe equal to MG2 but certainly not better
the boss's voice actress sounded so much like the newscaster woman on family guy that i couldnt take her seriously
2>1>3
3>2>MG2>1>V>PW>4>MG1
People felt uncomfortable with 2 because they thought mgs1 was a little silly but not meant as an actual joke on its players, while twin snakes and 2 make it very obvious
MGS3 is the first one where everyone was sure it was a joke from the start and they felt comfortable being "in on it"
What are you even talking about? The tone being a bit goofy at times doesn't make the game a joke. It's weird how some people with no imagination just get mindbroken at silly Japanese sensibilities or the Rule of Cool...
Seriously, what is with people calling these games stories "jokes" in this thread? Each game has a pretty serious theme in it.
MGS1: the glorification of war is wrong and enjoying media that does may say something about you that you do not like.
MGS2: world governments will continue to manipulate information at an increasing rate until we are unable to discern fiction from reality.
MGS3: The government will use you, break you down, and spit you out when they are done with you, world governments do not care about people, only agendas.
etc.etc.
Just because these games have a sense of humor doesn't mean they aren't meant to be taken seriously, at least in their messaging.
All humor in has been retroactively tainted by modern western movies/tv. So, when confronted with any humous moment, even from something pre-taint, the immediate response these tards have is revulsion
In the PSX/early PS2 era it was still very easy to confuse garbled localization and jap sensibilities as games being moronic rather than intentionally joking
E.g. is Resident Evil actually moronic light novel garbage or B-movie based jokes? How aware were they that the re1 intro would make anglos fall out laughing? I'm still not sure
MGS3 is one of the earlier games people took just like anglo origin media and we're 100% in on the joke from the first frame
>E.g. is Resident Evil actually moronic light novel garbage or B-movie based jokes?
Is there a difference?
>How aware were they that the re1 intro would make anglos fall out laughing?
they probably werent aware of it at all. i cant infer anything when i listen to japanese people talk. i would have no way to judge the nuance of a VA performance. for all i know they could be intentionally trying to sound moronic and i would have no idea. i very much doubt they intended the game to be humorous in that regard.
They may or may not be aware that most western horror movies are viewed in very different ways. It's probably around a 50/50 split between people who watch them "seriously" for the horror scares and wanting to be frightened and half people who watch ironically and laugh at the stupid situations characters in horror movies tend to get in. That combined with not understanding camp in general probably made them think all western horror is serious so they assume what they see in it must be super scary to Americans but what comes out just looks silly more than anything else.
Ok, take the opposite. RE4 is really obviously joking to anyone playing it now, but at the time people weren't sure if it was accidentally moronic like RE1's intro, or maybe that it was just localizers making a joke out of a game intended to be serious (ignore the giant robot).
Crossing this boundary in the 2000s is how jap media really became fine with anglos beyond almost any other foreign culture media
Playing RE4 at the time, the weirdo spanish midget guy made it pretty clear to me the game was tongue in cheek.
it's just people whose egos will not allow them to enjoy the most popular thing
Wtf, MGS3 is the most popular game in the series
Yes, anon. That's what they are saying.
Hipsters can't bring themselves to enjoy MGS3 because it is the most popular.
>My favorite Metal Gear games? Metal Gear 1 (not 2, has too much story in it) and Portable Ops because I value pure gameplay over storyshit.
Because it has snake as the protag and not homosexual Raiden that sucks
That is true, but also is because prefered the variety of the jungle/mountain/swamp stages of metal gear 3 instead of the boring same-looking and small metal rooms of metal gear 2
do you guys actually watch the cutscenes and listen to the code calls when you replay these games? yeah, i liked this shit when i was an adolescent, but i really cant imagine doing this now. if you take away the stories, i think mgs2 has the best gameplay by far. 60fps and the game looked and was one of the few early PS2 games that actually felt next gen. as has been said, mgs1 was mostly gimmicks and set piece slop. yes, we all loved it at the time, because we didnt know movie games would ruin everything. mgs3 was basically just a shitty version of mgs2 with bad performance and unnecessary survival shit that didnt actually add anything to the game.
>unnecessary survival shit that didnt actually add anything to the game.
MGS3's controls and menuing are just too complex for an MGS2 fan to enjoy
It's genuinely a skill issue. All these complaints about incessant menu usage means they constantly need to heal from damage taken or need to eat because they take too long crawling through bushes. It's ironic because 3 is probably the easiest of the classic MGS games and they're still struggling.
no one "struggles" with the survival viewer, moron. its just pointless because all it is a pointless layer of obfuscation to restore your lifebar to full. any "injury" you get in the game is not really an injury at all. it just lowers your lifebar. if your arm is broken, you can still use it the same as if it wasnt broken. but if you want full life, you have to open the moronic menu and use the items. no one even looks at what item theyre using. you just spam all of them because it only uses what is required for that particular injury. its a needless system that only normies and morons like because they feel like theyre treating a heckin injury.
Yeah man but you still got filter'd which means you are even worse than 'normies and morons'
That's a whole lot of cope to excuse you being bad at the game. Don't like the injury menu? Don't get injured.
This just sounds like cope for a bad mechanic. Maybe they should have just made injury be an instant game over instead?
Being seen as a condition for Game Over covers that for the most part outside of boss fights. Good players have to navigate the menus a total of maybe 5 times over an entire playthrough. Menus aren't inherently enjoyable and I wouldn't particularly miss them if they were gone but the bullshit complaint that you have to stop every 30 seconds and spam every item in the menu is genuinely the result of bad players being stupid.
I think only a tiny handful of autists replay Metal Gear games. Some might do a higher challenge level if they didn't play on Extreme to start, but in general it's a series that isn't meant to be replayed a ton.
>it's a series that isn't meant to be replayed a ton.
This is bullshit. The games have content only awarded after playthroughs, sometimes multiple. The second game specifically has the dogtag hunt that requires different difficulties and VR missions with timers to encourage optimal runs and 3 has multiple equipment locked behind NG+. Casual gamers might not replay it but they don't replay anything except maybe Candy Crush or Bloons.
Yeah like I say, replay of them is for autists.
>"Yeah like I say"
ESL detected
I didn't dispute the autism part, just the idea that they aren't meant for replay.
This is pretty much correct especially about 1 being groundbreaking and now looking like shit I think 2 aged the best and was my favorite at release despite everybody hating it for Raiden. My ranking is 2>1>3 but 3 is still really good and more replayable than 1.
I didn't the first time I played them
I was just there for slapstick gameplay
because 2 is a love it or hate it game and some(idiots) think 1 is too old.
Twin Snakes is proof that 1 is too old and can be drastically improved
I actually like 1 more than twin snakes...and most people I know also agree. All the mgs2 makes the game too easy, and the insane cutscenes are just....idk lame.
I think the cutscenes work if you look at the game as Otacon retelling the events to Sunny or something. Having said that, the game was never re-balanced for the addition of first-person aiming.
Other than that, none of the other included features really mess with the game enough to matter.
I'm just mad that it will forever be stuck on Gamecube and hasn't even been and never will be ported to Wii/Wii U/Switch, but I guess that's what emulation is for.
because not many video game players are sensible enough to grasp the depth of MGS 2
It's the only MGS game that at least puts some effort into being a stealth game.
Most realistic story out of all the games, subsistence had 3rd person view.
MGS was always a shonen story.
Atmosphere
Variety
Survival elements
Amazing Graphics
Lots of replayability alongside different playstyles
Very satisfying hardcore mode (aka European Extreme)
Fun online play
Very fun boss battles
Kojima at its peak
Kojima's absolute insistence to retcon literally everything remotely supernatural to just be "lol nanomachines, son" "lol wolbachia code talker b***h" is aggravating.
The fact that The End's photosynthesis was just a bacteria that only he was afflicted by, then later on was studied and manipulated into whatever the frick is... frustrating.
Like, we can have Psycho Mantis and The Sorrow be supernatural, but nothing else is allowed to be?
Oh and then Fortune miraculously having her powers be real (maybe) right as she's about to die is fricking obnoxious, too.
Was tank shaman's magic tattoo also nano machines?
One thing that I think most people get wrong (including the wikis) is that Liquid possessing Ocelot in MGS2 was real spiritual possession. The possession is triggered by Solid Snake's presence, and triggering it is the reason he was brought to the Big Shell in the first place.
Ocelot recovered from his possession once he was away from Snake, and then had Liquid's arm replaced with a prosthetic without the Patriots knowing (as seen in MGS4). Ocelot hypnotized himself afterwards in order to trick the Patriots (and himself) into believing he was now permanently possessed by Liquid.
If everyone and all the wikis get it wrong, what's your basis for that being the actual truth and not your headcanon?
Big Boss in MGS4 says something how they can't transplant someone's will and personality to another's even with nanomachines, then he says under certain conditions someone can be made to act as another and the X button flashback shows specifically Ocelot in MGS2 being taken over by Liquid.
Plus, if the arm wasn't actually taking him over why would he replace it with some robotic arm?
The funny thing is that it doesn't really matter if it was hypnosis or possession or nanomachines, because Ocelot's entire mind and personality was still transformed into Liquid's... so either way it's just Liquid except one explanation is convoluted and confusing.
it's the most consistently good one from A-Z. not perfect but it has less obnoxious shit like MGS2. it's the most fun to replay because it has the most variety, the first two games are just too 'on rails' and don't have as many mechanics or items to play with.
The real reason it's popular is that its merits as a moviegame balanced against a real game are in perfect harmony, but you have to like moviegames. People talk the gameplay up to be way more than it is after it became cool to shit on moviegames.
Only moronic zillennials like it because it was their first MGS.
It has neat story, without too much convulted philosophical meta bullshit, it finally doesn't happen just in fricking corridors, codec conversations don't go on for 5 hours and survival elements work well together with cool stealth system. The only problems it had were with camera, but that has been solved in subsistence version.
more like wooden pinion jelly
Three has the best cutscenes and cinematic animation. It has the best music. That’s all people think about. The forest areas are bland and not really huge. All the weopons and tech are downgraded compared to 1 and 2.
MGS2 is a masterpiece. Yea it’s mostly on an oil rig and a ship, but it’s got more stuff in it.
The quality difference from 1 to 2 is incredible and seems almost impossible they could put as much detail into a new system and launch that game on time.
With three I think it was focused on emulating movies. The fourth one just has bad story scenes and forgettable areas. The online was awesome.
The amount of time and detail they put into #2 is just crazy.
Listen, what would Snake have done if The Pain boss wasn't in the area with deep water to hide in?
Kojima was on fire in the PS2 days. TECHNOLOGY out the ass, super fun gameplay, and he had the other guy editing his writing so his cool ideas weren’t getting overridden by his autism. The first three Solids are all 10/10s but to varying degrees. 2 and 3 are both just a little better than 1, but I think they’re both pretty much equal to each other.
Bullshit, they consider subsistence the best one, most people haven't touched the original release.
As someone who preordered Twin Snakes due to being a huge MGS1 fan, the game was like a 3/10 at best.
Everything besides the polycount and resolution are straight downgrades or just ridiculous/insulting. The voice acting was the worst part for me though because MGS1's VA work is legendary; in TTS everyone sounds bored or sedated.
This was my reaction too. That game annoys me in a way very few do, it's just so aggressively bad on every level.
The scene where Otacon's face gets close to the codec to tell you about the stealthed guys in the elevator was the exact moment I turned on the game forever. The line was delivered so flatly and emotionlessly that I couldn't believe that this game had a voice acting director.
For me it's when you first meet Vulcan Raven and in the original Snake has that great quip about how he must be a real terror in the muktuk eating contest and not only do they both sound bored as frick, but the whole line is taken out.
Playing mgs1's tl is whiplash inducing if you've gotten used to the direction and localization of the later games, there are lines delivered like a human being might think of and say them sometimes
Which is why the original version of 1 remains the best Metal Gear has been.
Jeremy Blaustein, same guy who worked with Team Silent on SH1-3
Come over to Ganker and post the thread there. You can't talk about games here.