Name any reason Victrix and Perry can afford to sell 60 troopers for £30 and GW can’t even sell 5 monoposed space marines for that amount
Inb4
>muh historicals look shit
I’m not talking about how they look, materially they are the same amount of plastic and being the bigger company, GW still hasn’t refined its production methods
Gw doesn't need to refine its production methods because nobody plays tabletop games that aren't Warhammer, so they can shit all over their consumers with 0 backlash, being the only real option.
I guarantee you this is not the case you just have to find a group and decide a game to play. That’s the major plight of not playing GW you’re at the whim of what other people want to play
Production costs for plastics are almost nothing after the molds are made. Prices are set according to what their customers are willing to pay.
There's not nearly as much competition for GW minis, because they vigorously protect their IP, and it is an IP. Meanwhile I can combine a dozen different lines of "French Hussars" in the same unit and fight another half dozen models of "British Rifle Infantry" in the same unit.
Gotta pay scultptors, gotta pay for the factory (if you're GW and have one), gotta pay shipping, etc. It's more than just the actual plastic.
>Gotta pay scultptors, gotta pay for the factory (if you're GW and have one), gotta pay shipping, etc. It's more than just the actual plastic.
The point is that all those expenses are minimal once you reach a basic scale of production, much like software in CDs. There's no difference in production costs between a $2 pack of 20 blank CDs back in 2005 or a $40 video game on a single CD.
>Name any reason Victrix and Perry can afford to sell 60 troopers for £30
It's not that they 'can afford' to, it's that they can't afford not to. There's plenty of companies selling roughly equivalent product and historical modelers shop around.
>and GW can’t even sell 5 monoposed space marines for that amount
GW could, but even in the 2010s they could get away with selling them for more, so they do.
If nobody bought that shit, they'd have changed their tune long ago.
GW puts a lot of resources on R&D. Specially, what flavor of space marine with a goofy ahh nerf weapon we can sell to the fat spergs this quarter. Please understand.
what kind of business deals do they give sculptors?
how much do they pay the die/mold makers.
are the dies and mold made out of precious metal alloys?
are they gold plated to prevent degrudation?
how many runs get trashed for defects?
how much does gw pay per run of model?
id imagine gw pays more to produce limited runs that sell out.
vicatrix and perry probably run more in a batch and dont change the dies or molds that much.
so thry have a huge stock that doesnt change much.
whereas gw drones always want new sculpts new minis.
how many variation of winged hussar or templar knight can you possibly have?
GW chooses to have a ridiculously sized range to the point where they now have to cycle minis in and out. Just think about how many space marine characters there are they have to cycle production for
They’re manufacturing process is still ancient because of how hard it is to change
they are scared of 3d printers.
They’re scared of copyright infringement on them, most people can’t afford them or won’t put in the effort so highly doubt they care
They could easily have a "space marine LTs, Captains, and Heroes" box with four normal troops sized sprues in a box if they wanted to cut down on the clutter, but nah, gotta make fifteen primaris generic heroes that are all sold separately.
I remember reading somewhere that the excuse was that electricity is expensive in England and the manufacturing was expensive because of that. Also something about not having the space for more printers.
Pretty sure that was horse shit though
No shareholders & small passion project company vs shareholders and associated corporate garbage.
GW have a monopoly on W40K shit, so they can ask whatever; the piggies will pay.
Paypiggies gonna paypig. Oink oink.
Because gw can’t let their profit margin fall below 5000% due to greed.
GW has a fanbase of funko pop tier brand cultists who will buy anything GW at any price because “I gotta have my warhammer”
GWgays will pay hundreds for <20 shitty platic dolls.
Historicalgays have standards.
Simple as.
Historical gays have no standards tho? Look at the state of their sculpts and the mushy details
Anon are you okay?
Why would you post an image that proves my point? Plus look at the state of those bases, christ
It doesn't show what you think it does.
Those little stands they come with make it very easy to attach to a priming stick then move to their final location and don't even stick out when the basing is done. I genuinely don't understand what the aversion for them some people have.
Are those Cretan Archers or Indian auxiliaries?
They're hellenes, of what polis I'm still undecided. Was just assembling them at the time so they were convenient for a photo.
Going from Warhammer in my youth to historicals at uni I was surprised at how almost universally well adjusted the historicals guys were. I guess no matter how little effort networking might require if you live somewhere with a good scene, it's still more than shuffling into a store with no prior organisation with a case and waiting around for a pick-up game of 40k or AoS.
Autists (particularly here where they encourage each other to wallow in the worst excesses of their condition), love to think of themselves as high IQ dispassionate free thinkers unburdened by social conditioning, but they anthropomorphise more than most, they are inclined to be overly emotional, and they LOVE geedubs like Winston Smith loves Big Brother at the end of 1984 for providing an epic sci-fi miniatures wargame popular enough they can play with the least possible social effort.
Likewise, GW being the single largest wargaming company attracts those soi, herd-mentality, """"geek culture"""" sickos that love whatever is most popular.
TL;DR GW have a strong captive audience, they know it, they price accordingly. While on the other hand historicals players are freely able to and don't mind shopping around. Even overpriced kits catering to 40k refugees can't be obscenely priced.
Naively, I read "soft details", "soft details", "soft details" enough times that I started to think maybe there was something in it. "They're not dedicated like Bandai are but I'm sure they could outspend somebody like Renedra if they wanted to" I thought.
Of course, I was disappointed when I got an AoS starter for cheap NOS, (I wanted to use the Nighthaunt for a fantasy project). Comparable soft details, just the guys that are slagging off the historicals are dweebs performatively slagging off the historicals based on nothing more than out of context photographs, and don't realise their beloved GW figures are so scale-crept they're effectively a different scale at this point.
>historical "gays" actually play the game and fantasy Black folk only care about their heckin pretty models being well sculpted and painted enough to represent their gender identity
seems normal
>implying the best periods to play don't have armies that look more colourful than a pride parade
Where are the mushy details?
Just because the details are on the model not hanging 40 foot off the base like GWs are
Because Victrix and Perry can't convince anyone to pay more.
I hate to defend James but spend 5 seconds thinking about the difference between the companies:
1/. Unique designs vs copied from existing material + related fluff like lore and artists
2/. Size and scale of company operations, including protecting their IP, producing "content"
3/. Physical stores (Probably the largest contributor to the cost).
4/. Better plastic, sprue design etc (Probably the smallest contributor).
5/. Larger size of the models, plus weapons options and customisation parts
SW:Legion and their sculpts, quality of plastic and size of the models is shocking compared to GW and the US RRP price per model is similar: 6 B2 Super Battle Droids are $39.99, 10 Primaris Intercessors are $60. UK is worse, B2s £35.99 vs Intercessors £37.50. They don't even have to support physical stores. I guess that's Disney wanting their pound of flesh.
All that shit said, there is 100% a GW tax being applied, but if any of the historics companies scaled up like this with physical stores and shit it'd be close in price, and you're smoking something if you think that wouldn't be the case.
>GW unique designs
lmao ctrl-c spaecemarine, very unique
>Big money because big money
how many boots can you fit in your mouth?
>brick & mortar
run as minimally staffed and poorly supported as possible while undercutting independent stores, my heart weeps custard for their expenses
>better design
gay and wrong
>bigggggger
then frickinn stop scaling everything up
>more customization and parts
lamo no, less every sprue
>lmao ctrl-c spaecemarine, very unique
Didn't acknowledge actual point
>how many boots can you fit in your mouth?
Maybe you don't understand how a business has to scale. GW has 64x the revenue of Victrix. I play SW:Legion, Ancients and WW2, I haven't bought a GW model for maybe 12 years
>run as minimally staffed and poorly supported as possible while undercutting independent stores, my heart weeps custard for their expenses
Still a cost
>better design
Didn't even say that
>bigggggger
Agreed, no need for the scale creep
>more customization and parts
More than Victrix and other historics so again, disingenuous
Didn't bother reading your backpedalling and shit over how many boots you're garbling around.
RIP buddy. All the points I made are legitimate answers to OPs question. You keep buying your GW products and complaining. Come play historics with the big boys when you grow up a little and gain some brain function.
You've made no answers, just regurgitation of what other people claim with nothing to back it up.
Imagine saying GW has unique designs when all they are is existing ips they ripped off attached skulls to and blew up to their moronic scale or that they have more customization than other contemporary kits when the damn figures are monopose now.
What? You want me to find facts and figures on their brick and mortar rental costs and pay of employees? I'm not doing that. It's obvious to anyone other than you with your amoeba IQ that you have to pay to rent a shop and you have to pay employees. My responses was an actual answer about what else factors into their pricing when compared to Victrix and SW:Legion.
I don't buy GWs models so it has no affect on me, but they're living rent free in your head. Maybe you enjoy thinking and complaining about it? But I don't know why you'd want to spent your time on that. If you want a hobby that doesn't enrage you, both the companies that OP mentioned are decent, I'd recommend giving them a try.
>rent free
Oh so you were just baiting and wasting everyone's time. Have fun with that I guess.
if you compare a comparatively priced gundam model with one of the big warhammer robots the gundam is still over twice as big and made out of like 10x as many parts with colored plastic and everything.
Simpler moulds, cheaper plastic, no retail stores, no rules and play testing, minimal concept art and lore. Not sure how their design process works, assuming they take a chunk of designs already from the anime and combine it with original designs/sculpts. It's not all about the size, though it is a factor.
I'm not arguing that they're good value, but there's more costs on their end than most other companies
This is just horse shit. You are like an abused spouse making up excuses for their umpteenth black eye. You just can't admit Games Workshop are ripping you the frick off. Sad.
>minimal concept art and lore
GW does rules testing
This has to be bait....there's no way someone thinks GW actually plays their own games given day 1 errata.
They do test their games. For five games. And they're balanced against other studio armies and how people in the studio use them. And they use houserules that don't make it into the game.
>Simpler moulds
I don't build gunpla, but for humanity sake just have a nice day. GW Titans or Knight are the absolute shit while Gunpla are state of the art model kit.
*Some* of the Gunpla moulds are incredibly simple. The 1/144 scale no-grade or HG kits are generally quite basic, but then they are supposed to be simple to put together and lack the bells&whistles of the fancy 1/144 RG or 1/100 MG kits.
Also, Bandai are as bad as GW for copy/paste work. Oh look, *yet another fricking Zaku II*, just in a different colour. Oh wow, a title-character Gundam with the mid-season firepower upgrade using 95% of the same parts as the original!
>GW
>unique designs
GW will really call a space marine with a new gun unique. Historicals will at least have the decency to decide on their weapons upfront rather than releasing a new kit for every minor weapon variant
Compitition, everyone can make Norwegian ski troops of the 1515 campaign if they want to, only GW gets to decide who can make Ultramarine Primacht Ultralas gravtanks and accessories to them*.
*Offbrand totally not-"Ultramarine Primacht Ultralas gravtanks" and bits for them are usually cheaper.
how much of gw profits gets taxed by the crown?
plastic british wargames support the pensioners?
could you imagine gw making commercials like those buy gold now commercials on fox news and sunday morning programming?
>Name any reason
They've built a customer base that will let them get away with it.
This unfortunately, if those morons just didn't buy everything at the inflated prices, we'd see lower costs at GW pretty fast.
40k is pretty much the only competitive scene on the tabletop.
if you dont have a competitive scene your game is dead.
(anons in awg saying dropshit had like less than five people buying a ticket for the tournies at gen con)
how much does gw shell out for tournies?
waacgays are the reason.
and anyone playing warhams is a defacto waacgay in my eyes.
becuase if you want to win
you gotta play the game
the only game played
is 40k
therefore
waacgay
this, nobody plays anything but competitive 40k
clubs don't exist
nobody plays at home
anybody telling you otherwise is a con-artist
the rest of the miniatures wargaming hobby is an overly elaborate tax dodge/ money laundering scheme
t. guy that stinks of musty clothes and stale piss, hasn't bathed for a month, and has no friends
game designer is the perfect career for graphic designers that like to smell their own farts.
i bet you have a few game prototypes lying around dont you.
sorry to be the bearer of bad news but people aren't wasting thousands cutting dies for injection moulded plastic models for a market that doesn't exist
stop coping and have a fricking bath
you dont really need tchotchkes to play dnd.
yet here we are
mostly due to the business practises of games workshop.
miniatures wargaming also predates D&D
also
>tchotchkes
got a big balls to play the anti-consumerism angle as a gw apologist, i'll grant you that
little tin men were childrens toys.
"miniature wargaming" was done with blocks with signaling flag symbols.
wargaming was largely abstracted until dnd.
Wargaming first dates back to HG Wells "little wars" in 1913 thats the first confirmed rule book. After that its the 50s when wargaming first started to properly develop.
kriegspeil predates hg wells shit.
Little Wars itself mentions Kriegspiel and how likely men and boys have been playing pretend wars with toy soldiers for thousands of years.
The main difference here is Kriegspiel is a training tool and not explicitly a game, while Little Wars is the first miniature wargame we have on record. Think of it how people were writing long before Enheduanna but she's still the first recorded author.
the more you post the more you demonstrate how ignorant you are, unsurprising for the sort of stinky social moron that can only find pick-up games
nothing to say but insults now
seems you are the one who has run out of facts and relies on mere projection.
>nothing to say but insults now
been insulting you the whole time, nigel nofriends
>This unfortunately, if those morons just didn't buy everything at the inflated prices, we'd see lower costs at GW pretty fast.
Like they did when Warhammer Fantasy stopped selling?
That's when we got start collecting boxes that GW has now replaced.
I remember getting the CSM start collecting box for 47 quid off wayland games if its was VAT free it wouldve been 39. Absolutely mental that was with a 20% discount due to then being a 3rd party. That set came with 1 master of possession, 10 marines, 2 obliterators and a venomcrawler.
>Like they did when Warhammer Fantasy stopped selling?
Sure, if you ignore the developers admitting that WFB was shelved to ensure AoS' success.
I still believe fantasy was partially disregarded because people rarely felt the need to add to their armies.
This also being due to their being so many factions that they couldn’t rely on a release selling at all
Whereas most of 40k is space marine players so you’ve got a guaranteed base to buy the new product
I don't understand how they could think that when there's so much of the map they never went into. For 30 years they were incredibly reluctant to do anything outside of the old world. They also dropped several armies like Nippon, the dogs of War(Tilea and Estalia), and chaos dwarfs while never moving Araby past Warmaster.
i think political correctness killed it, i imagined they could have done an age of sail type expansion of Warhammer. Whoever was influencing decision making didn't like it.
I doubt it was some pc boogieman given Nippon and Norseca were second edition armies that never came back, chaos dwarfs were a white dwarf compendium army, dogs of War never even really made it to 6th, and Twitter came out the same year Araby made its Warmaster debut.
The point anon was if they had an age of sail where the old world sailed all over the world. Ir'd look like "colonialism"
So despite having far away countries to expand the setting to. political correctness ultimately killed it.
dreadfleet sold poorly
you really going to do this?
man o war and dreadfleet had broken rule systems apperently
anon doesn't mean make a sailing game you dipshit
>it wasn't political correctness
>they replace it with a politically correct setting
go frick yourself
Now you're making up things to be upset about.
They already do that. There's literal colonies in the new world, The Empire has Sudenberg in the Southlands, Bretonnia had Antoch bordering Araby, and the high elves have colonies all over the place south of Cathay.
Jfc you people are insane, you miss the anons point just to weaselly shpve your moronic politics into yet another discussion
You stupid homosexual Black person
>lying and gaslighting because you heard the term political correctness
I don't know what you call GWs direction after WFB as anything but political correctness
Why would you lie like this?
We're not talking about AoS, we're talking why GW didn't expand Warhammer beyond its narrow confine of factions and how political correctness simply doesn't pan out as an excuse since things like old world colonies in the new world and the Southlands are still a thing even by 8th edition.
Go whine about your imaginary friends on Twitter where you belong.
WHFB had two issues running side-by-side. First, adding *more* factions to an already fairly crowded roster was risky. You already had three flavours of Elf (with distinct subflavours within those three), two 'good' Human flavours (again, multiple subflavours especially in Empire), Chaos was absolutely nuts when it came to mix/match options (Demons/Beasts/Warriors, God-centric lists etc) and so on. A new army would need a full range from day one to exist in such an ecosystem. I suspect the Ogre Kingdoms only made the cut because they made sense for production logistics (most units used the same core Ogre sprue, Gnoblars were small and didn't require any special work).
Secondly, WHFB had legacy issues working against them. Long established players had all the (for example) Dwarf Warriors they'd ever need, so a new Dwarf Warrior box wouldn't sell unless they ramped up the bodycount required for an army....which they did, while pushing outlandish centrepiece units into armies which either didn't have them before or had their existing Big Thing superceded by the new one. This made for bad gameplay and pissed everyone off. Very hard to row back from that, so I can understand someone thinking it was better to clean-slate the entire thing and make something new.
Interesting how somehow neither of these points hampered Age of Sigmar eh?
Seems like GW were just incompetent at selling the game.
>I still believe fantasy was partially disregarded because people rarely felt the need to add to their armies.
oh yeah, totally
wargamers, known hoarders, joke about and feel embarrassed by their piles of shame, inveterate collectors, who always have another project on the horizon. well except for the players of this one particular game, warhammer fantasy. they all reached a blissful state of enlightenment and became satiated at around the same time. that balance was fricked at the same time as prices were skyrocketing just a coincidence i'm sure
Yeah in part because Fantasy got ridiculously expensive even by GW standards and because there were so few model refreshes.
>partially
No that was the whole point.
8th was a mistake. They had a problem of existing players not buying enough miniatures because they already had their armies, and new players being too few because the entry prices were intimidating.
They thought that infantry bloat to force old players to pad their armies, and raising prices, would solve the problem. They were incredibly greedy and misguided in opting to milk their established customers as much as possible at the expense of further raising the entry prices and further smothering the influx of new customers, and AOS was the result. Full stop.
>I’m not talking about how they look, materially they are the same amount of plastic
I mean, a lot of the price of a mini is to amortize the cost if designing them.
>GW still hasn’t refined its production methods
yeah that's not the issue.
because GW is a premium product, the very best on the market. To maintain the image of a premium product that is the best on the market, they must be the most expensive. Naturally the most expensive is the best. Full stop. This makes GW a market leader.
These threads always suck.
On the one hand you get people too stupid to understand that more money goes into making miniatures than just the fricking plastic they're made of, and that a company like GW in particular has to spend a lot in marketing, maintenance, and maintaining its goddamn brick and mortar stores, even besides basic 'beyond the cost of plastic' expenses like paying for sculptors, artists, writers, mold prodution, machine power and maintenance etcetera.
On the other hand you have bootlickers that may or may not at least understand the above, but will never admit that GW may still be massively overpricing its shit well above what would be justified by the aforementioned costs.
So you get two distinct sets of morons holding opposite opinions and being equally wrong in that they seemingly can't see that GW would be kind of justified in having prices twice as high as Victrix or North Star does or more, but they're greedy bastards and they'd rather charge four to five time as much per model instead.
For example, the most expensive rate per model I saw for Victrix infantry, for one of the smaller boxes that get worse deals, was still one fourth of the price per model of a Cadian box, which is supposed to be the most basic chaff in 40k. If you look at some of the cheaper Victrix boxes, that's more like one sixth of the price per model. Victrix models are very detailed and high quality and are definitely at the more expensive end of the spectrum for historicals, and still, this is what you get when comparing their most expensive kits with the *lowest* end of modern GW prices.
no one has yet to post gw's expense and earning reports.
as a corporation arent these publicly available?
>people still repeating the wfb sold badly lie
I would like to remind people itt that GW is the company that didn't think LOTR would be a successful property to make a game for when the movies were coming out back in 2000, and then when the game sold so well it basically let them grow into what they are today they didn't that it would drop off after the return if the king was released so they over invested and and took heavy losses as a result, and that's why lotrsbg is seen as a failure to them because it was too successful.
lotr ring game was released when 3rd ed 40k was really kicking off as well as mordheim and bfg.
this is when the first movie was released.
when did the game actually become popular?
When it launched. Here's a Rick Priestly interview that goes more into it.
No they didn't. If that was the case they wouldn't have gotten the license in the first place you utter tard
stupid Black person doesn't know what age of sail means