>The Legend of Zelda series producer Eiji Aonuma has revealed that the Nintendo GameCube game's cel shaded graphics were initially hidden from the Nintendo designer to avoid a dismissive response.
>[Aonuma]: “If I had gone and talked to him from the very beginning, I think he would have said, ‘How is that Zelda?’. Miyamoto had trouble letting go of the realistic Link art style until the very end.”
>“At some point he had to give a presentation against his will. That’s when he said something like, ‘You know, it’s not too late to change course and make a realistic Zelda.’”
>...the original plan for Wind Waker was for Link to use a theremin instead of a conductor’s wand, but this was scrapped by Miyamoto who called it ‘entirely unacceptable’.
It's kinda weird knowing that Space World 2001 and all the reeling and damage control that followed from the Gamecube's launch up to Reggie stepping onto stage at E3 2004 was knowingly preventable.
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Aonuma was a mistake
>Aonuma was responsible for Zelda's lowest point
>under his stewardship Zelda also hit its highest points in Twilight Princess and the BOTW/TOTK releases
It's equivalent exchange
Lol
>homosexuals seething about actual concrete sales data
>sales = quality
moron
If people are buying a game at a rate significantly higher than its cohorts it has to be doing something right.
It's on the right console
>If people are buying a game at a rate significantly higher than its cohorts it has to be doing something right.
damn, you actually ARE a zoomer
>If people are buying a game at a rate significantly higher than its cohorts it has to be doing something right.
>like spending more money on ads to get more plebs to buy your game
>Didn't even know how to make a game when hired by Nintendo
>Didn't even know how to make a 3d game before a western dev held his hand
>Bought a western dev just to kill any independent IP's they were working on and have them do nothing but Metroid games for eternity.
Retro was his new Rare to whip around.
Miyamoto was hardly involved with Retro at large, tanabe was the one with the whip. His biggest involvement was setting up prime in the initial stages
You know people bought TP up the ass because it was practically a release title for the Wii and a bunch of idiots genuinely though it was going to have full sword motion controls kind of like SS did.
>a bunch of idiots genuinely though it was going to have full sword motion controls kind of like SS did
OoT already had ""full motion controls like SS did", you just used the control stick to select the attack direction, but that was just barely used until years later.
So avatar is the best movie ever made, according to you.
Twilight Princess fricking blows. Hard disagree.
Twilight Princess was the best selling game in the franchise until Breath of the Wild. There's a reason it's been the flagship designs of the franchise up until BOTW Link & Zelda and why succeeding Link designs like SS and HW barely modify it up until they decided to go with a hatless Link in BOTW.
TP got the results Nintendo wanted and made Zelda a true contender again, there is no arguing with this.
When something is the biggest paid product it's usually because the previous seasons/games/movies were the best and created the hype. Never is the highest sold product the best of the other products.
Oh my god you self-absorbed zoomer, Celda was literally the 9/11 of things that happened in 2001. It was a hype implosion.
3 years later, Celda was over and real Zelda was back. That's why people were literally screaming in the auditorium and falling over each other.
E3 '16 wasn't having stampedes because of SS's inconsistent performance and wagglan inspiring so much enthusiasm. People were sprinting to get to the demo because BOTW was Zelda coming back from the brink yet again.
fire emblem awakening
Yakuza 0 (actually I think like a dragon took it over by now)
newest Pokemon game
none of these were the best in the series.
awakening and Y0 came after not very popular (in the west) titles.
every pokemon game sells more than the last one, implying that the last one is always the 'best' one.
Please tell me this post is a joke.
not that guy and its not always true but look at games like D3 which were total ass cpompared to diablo 2 and it makes sense. D3 was riding D2 hype and WoW launcher marketing, it didnt become the best ever selling PC game because it was any good, it was awful, especially on release.
What's even good about it? The ugly graphics? The story that derails at the end? The boring ass dungeons? The swordplay that is theoretically good, but the enemies are so braindead you never get to properly use it? The completely barren over world? Do I need to go on?
Midna is the only good thing about TP.
>boring dungeons
must be bait
They're almost all just brain dead linear hallways disguised with a few set pieces.
>omg!!! i can choose to explore this massive open world in whatever order or method I choose!
i can visit all 900 koroks in any order!!! i love this freedom!!! this is what a zelda game SHOULD be
Midna isn't even the best princess in TP
>Twilight Princess was the best selling game in the franchise until Breath of the Wild.
So you're agreeing with him when he says TP sucks, right?
>launch title on the best selling nintendo console sold the best until another launch title on the best selling nintendo console came out
can't believe it.
WWHD also sold over double of TPHD.
I like both games a bunch but people forgetting this part is the weirdest thing to me.
At its time people ragged on TP a frick ton for a bunch of random issues, but it sold insane metrics because the Wii was a smash hit console and this was a flagship release.
twilight is important just because fugtrupp uses twilight links eyelashes in his sfm's with him despite it being botw link
>Twilight Princess
>Skyward Sword
>BoTW/ToTK
>Highest points
Twilight Princess was amazing
Skyward Sword was amazing too, you just got filtered
BoTW and its sequel are literally the best games ever made according to just about every non-contrarian
>Twilight Princess is a dated time capsule of 2000s edge
>Skyward Sword was over-designed and bogged down
>BoTW and its sequel are derivative of modern trends and inexpertly executed
ftfy
I disagree with all of those. There's no such thing as edgy Zelda. Skyward Sword looks fine. Botw is derivative of modern game design trends but the art style isn't. Modern art style trends towards realistic.
The popular artstyle in the mid-late 2010's was cartoony pseudo-cellshading you complete moron. Realism as the dominant style started dying by 2015. Look at overwatch. Look at fortnite. Look at every game that copied them.
BOTW was early on the wagon I will give them that, but it was definitely a very modern aesthetic.
Liking unpopular things doesn't make you interesting.
>highest points
>Twilight Princess and the BOTW/TOTK releases
zoomoids actually believe this
>highest points
>Twilight Princess and the BOTW/TOTK releases
I like Twilight Princess, but come on
Twilight Princess was a return to Kinomoto.
TP is just okay
BotW is trash
TotK I don't know if I'll ever play but I hear it's literally just BotW 1.5, so it must be trash
TOTK fixes BotW by adding content and mechanics. It's very fun if you go into it for a light exploration game and collecting stuff
What fricking content, lmao
>Ah yes, legendary hero. Please touch the five orange glowies for me! Pretty please?
>Link. I'd love to help you, but I'm going to need you to gather 50 Moblin ballsacks, 700 Zonaite and 3 billion dollars.
>Hey, can you go and take a photo of this thing? It's totally not tedious, I promise. You only need to take like, 300 of them
>Now, I know you've killed five hundred Bokoblins with almost no meaningful variation between them, but I need you to go and kill thirty of them at this spot
TOTK's quests are bad to the point it feels like a shitty Colleghumor parody of vidya
highest point in terms of quantity or quality?
botw and totk are bad and not zelda
Did they eat from the rokakaka branch?
Oot dlc game and botw + dlc
Wow!
8.8
>A game brings the series to new heights
>Gets followed up with a game with a bad artstyle and was the opposite of what people wanted
But enough about Fire Emblem
Fire Emblem wishes it had Zelda's relevancy
Samurai pretending they were ever on equal footing was the biggest fricking fanboy cope
It had a real shot at relevancy, but then Engage fricked everything up.
FE was neveer anywhere near as relevant as Zelda was, despite what Awakening and/or 3H(read:Personagays) think.
WW also didnt filter personagays like Engage did.
>WW also didnt filter personagays like Engage did.
And everyone else apparently. Face it Engage is Fire Emblem’s Wind Waker and it probably endangered the series because that remake isn’t going to do well.
Not that anon but I agree Three Houses fans are just Persona gays and Harry Potter gays. Fire Emblem Engage is also the better game.
>implying
breath of wild wasn't directed by him at all, in fact he hasn't directed a Zelda since 2010
Aonuma needs to be fired.
TP was NOT zeldas "highest point" by any margin, even if we exclude BOTW/TOTK for being different to everything else you still can't tell me with a straight face TP was the best at all, espeically if you were actually alive when it came out
I love how people seethe at TP when it was the best selling Zelda game until BotW came out. It revitalized the series and also gave us arguably Link's best design. Just admit that it was the best game since the N64. Ganker is the only place it gets shit on.
>v/ is the only place it gets shit on.
It's gets shit on plenty outside of here anon.
No it doesn't. Most people look back on it fondly.
Most people look back on it as a fairly average entry anon. It's not looked back on as fondly as OoT, MM or even WW.
>Ganker headcanon
sure bud
It's okay anon. Living in denial is fine. As long as you love it that should be all that matters to you. It shouldn't matter that the game isn't loved as much as OoT, MM or another middling title like WW is.
I don't think anyone would argue that TP is as loved as the N64 titles. They are the pinnacle of the series. Lets not pretend that WW is more loved than TP though. I'd say they probably have an equal amount of diehard fans.
Because the Wii had 99% shovelware and AIDS ports, it looked good enough while riding off of the zelda name.
Also the Wii sold FRICKTONS more than any other nintendo console since, it would have been a nuclear disaster of a game to not sell the most.
The hype around Twilight Princess was massive and everyone I knew picked it up at launch and loved it. Whether on Wii or Gamecube. It was and is a beloved classic whether you like it or not.
It was hyped up a bit sure, but lets be real here under no observable reality was it ever regarded as the best of the best zelda.
If you compare it to how well recieved phantom hourglass and spirit tracks were then sure its a masterpiece, but on its own legs it didn't stand up to what came before it at the time with those wolf sections to say the least.
I like the game, its fun enough, but its unreal amounts of re-writing history to say everyone thought it was the best thing ever.
Super Mario Galaxy was recieved as the best thing ever for example, TP was not.
I would never call TP the best Zelda, but I do think its the best post-n64 Zelda. I just think its silly to pretend like its such a terrible game when its still better than like 90% of other action adventure games.
>Super Mario Galaxy was recieved as the best thing ever for example, TP was not.
Super Mario Galaxy was also the 3D Mario following up Sunshine, so it had a big "yay Mario is back" boost just like TP benefited from not being Wind Waker.
TP sucks. BOTW had considerably less influence from Aonuma by comparison.
All pieces of shit that only tarnished the franchise. Hope he burns in hell.
TP is god fricking awful
TP sucks, genuinely. The only good things about it are Midna and the spectacle factor of some boss fights like fighting the skeleton dragon boss while riding the spinner but even then the spectacle is ruined by the fights being so piss easy.
BotW was good but TotK was shit, just the same game done worse with a half-hearted crafting system slapped over it.
Twilight was just Ocarina 2 but with annoying wolf parts. Also, the graphics aged badly.
I know where you got this from, this was from a translation project off https://shmuplations.com/archive/. You forgot to quote the number of letters that Nintendo of Japan got from women who wanted OoT Adult Link to come back. Miyamoto as stated was not happy about Toon Link being a thing.
Aonuma's autism about celshading and ocean/sky traversal is true autism. Every game he insists he's gonna get it "right". He probably seethes at Epona existing, he prefers sailing and sky diving so much its unreal. Honestly if it wasn't for Breath of the Wild he'd be a hack, he lived long enough to come within striking distance of knocking off OoT which was his goal since Majora's Mask. Miyamoto lived long enough to become a hack, he totally was against Rosalina in Mario Galaxy and he pushed the Zelda team to make that Crossbow game instead of a TP sequel ala Majora's Mask.
>he totally was against Rosalina in Mario Galaxy
proof?
all I remember is he wasnt happy that koizumi snuck that picture book story into galaxe
What if he wanted to add romance mechanics to Rosalina but then Miyamoto said no.
Aonuma co-directed OoT and MM
He has my respect and always will have for that reason
>co-directed
There's the keyword. Look what happened to MM3D when he got total control over it. He does not deserve respect for his tenure as full-on director.
Aonuma didn't even codirect OoT, he worked on the dungeons. MM was his first Zelda he directed and that was corrected with Koizumi
>Directors:
>Toru Osawa
>Yoichi Yamada
>Eiji Aonuma
>Yoshiaki Koizumi
>Toshio Iwawaki
You're probably right on what he did but he was still in a director role
He's not listed in the game credits anywhere other than dungeon design
He is credited as one of OoT's 5 directors
>General/Script Director
Toru Osawa
>Game System Directors
Yoichi Yamada
Eiji Aonuma
>3D System Director
Yoshiaki Koizumi
>Programming Director
Toshio Iwawaki
What exactly is the difference between a Game System Director and a 3D System Director?
One word
Koizumi did Clock Town but Aonuma did the rest of Termina. Without Aonuma you wouldn't have the kino that is Ikana Canyon.
Aonuma obviously works best when tard-wrangled by someone else, similar to George Lucas or Genndy Tartakovsky
The dungeons in Ocarina of time are genuinely fantastic, he should've kept at it
Clock Town fricking existed since Ura along with half of MM it was in the giga leak with ULra Zelda headers fricking moronic Aonumale apologist
>The worst-designed area in the entire game, with a wet fart final dungeon that was cut back from the level of challenge and complexity that it originally was and should have been
>BUT IT'S...KINO
OOT had 5 directors homie. He was but one. Then they gave him the reigns for the whole series and it went to shit.
He wasn't even one of them
he was barely involved with Oot moron. there were 4 directors and Miyamoto was also heavily involved in that game unlike the GC Zeldas
Everyone really should read this article
https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Development_of_The_Legend_of_Zelda
Really puts things into perspective about all the struggles Miyamoto, Aonuma, etc had in keeping the Zelda series relevant over the years.
>fandom
https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Development_of_The_Legend_of_Zelda
And not a single video essayist can pronounce his name correctly.
Reminds me of how, for some reason, SO many people kept miswriting/saying Keiji Inafune's name as "KeNji" in the 2000s.
This. Imagine if Nintendo hired Miyazaki back in the day instead of Aonuma. The series lost its artistic touch with Aonuma at the helm
Umm sweaty but WW and BOTW/TOTK are literally Mozart pieces in terms of cultural significance, didn't the essayists tell you that?
>Aonuma was a mistake
Aomuma was right. Wind Waker still looks fantastic today. It's strong artsyle completely masks the technology it's running on.
Compared to the more realistic Twlight Princess which released a few later and looked fricking terrible within a year or two.
the dark world is ugly as sin, way too much bloom and muddy textures and the tear gathering as the wolf is slow and kills the pace of the game
>Compared to the more realistic Twlight Princess which released a few later and looked fricking terrible within a year or two.
I keep seeing people say this, but Twilight Princess still looks pretty good to this day.
Aonuma fricking sucks
Twilight Princess was an apology game and BOTW/TOTK are fricking garbage, it's not even close to the high of LTTP/LA/OOT/MM releasing back to back
What was the apology game for SS?
A Link between worlds
Aonuma and Koizumi are the best thing that has happened to the Zelda series in a long time, they pretty much covered for all of Miyamoto’s little messes
Together at least. Koizumi's first job alone was Sunshine. So he's not a Saint either and probably would go for the open world fad albeit with a better story.
Even with the repetition and bugs I like Sunshine more than I like Galaxy so it's weird to think Koizumi directed both
Aonumale apologists should be culled
>Aonuma
No. He had his chance to prove himself a competent dungeon designer time and time again and his only passable work was a semi-decent romhack.
>Designs 4 dungeons for a single entry in the series
>"Okay, you can have the entire franchise now until you die"
How does this make any sense? Is Nintendo just a pool of nepotism?
Miyamoto was pissed at Koizumi for LA
He wouldn't have brought him on for MM then. If anything he liked koizumi so much he upgraded him to the companies mascot, mario.
He only brought Koizumi on as director after MM's development began facing major troubles. He never directed another Zelda game after that.
Yeah, because he got upgraded.
Getting to make mario games is the highest position a developer can get in the company.
>Is Nintendo just a pool of nepotism?
Yes, that's how Japan operates.
>Is Nintendo just a pool of nepotism?
You know that Shiggy got hired despite not knowing how to make a videogame?
I honestly think Aonuma has ties to the yakuza.
>nepotism
Bruh Nintendo started in the vidya business when video games were barely a thing. Mario was the first video game character that could jump. Super Mario Bros was made by 5 fricking people.
Aonuma's design portfolio was enough to bring him into the fold on Nintendo and his design sentiments clearly resonated with the managers and shit on some level. It's not like there'd be a shitload of Zelda veterans in front of him anyway since this was a franchise that, as of OoT, had only 5 games.
First post best post.
FPBP
>Twilight Princess
The game he didn't want to make.
>the BOTW/TOTK releases
The franchise's lowest point. Especially TotK, such an underwhelming game. Though he didn't direct them (Fujibayashi did). He's the manager so he's still culpable though.
Yep. Every Zelda made after the N64 and before BOTW is fricking GARBAGE.
And astonishingly, TotK, which DOES have Aonuma influence, manages to take the brilliant foundations of BotW and turn them into dogshit.
We're really going to have to wait another 15-20 years for another miracle game before we get another worthy installment in this accursed franchise, fricking hell.
Disowning Majora’s Mask and casualizing it in the 3ds remake was too far.
We know. We fricking know.
'cringe'
frick zoomers
Zoomers didn't invent the word Cringe, you buffoon.
Ironically, i really like wind waker while i dont care too much for TP or SS.
Is nu Ganker pretending wind waker was bad? It was a great fricking game.
>isnt it hecking ironic I love the shitty game you guise
I like all 3 of those
I like OoT and MM too
And the BotW games
I'm literally the only Zelda fan on this board who just likes Zelda instead of fanboying around one and declaring the rest shit
>I'm literally the only Zelda fan on this board who just likes Zelda instead of fanboying around one and declaring the rest shit
I with you anon, I think Zelda as a franchise is high quality. TotK was fun. OoT is my fav. I'm playing through the DS games for the first time rn.
>
In what way does that image apply to what I said? Because I like a franchise?
Because you're uncritically accepting of it
>uncritically accepting of it
Where did you get that from? You think I have no criticisms of something because I enjoy it?
>Proof #7459 that Miyamoto should've retired from the industry after the SNES
but then his best franchise (pikmin) wouldn't exist
nice source, wanker
He didn't make pikmin. That was Shigefumi Hino.
producers are the ones in charge at nintendo, not directors
"In charge" in what capacity? Perhaps producers hold more of a senior role, but directors have more of a direct effect on their games. One example is how Aonuma was supposed to be the producer of TP and decided to become the director since he wasn't happy with its progress.
WW is garbage. Deal with it.
Anybody who hates WW Link is a soulless homosexual.
He didn't rike it
Wind Waker fricking sucks and Twilight Princess rules.
That is correct.
That is incorrect.
TP has the worst dungeons of the 3d games. Temple of Time and City in the Sky are aggressively boring.
Wind Waker was an unfinished game and Twilight Princess bullies it into submission. Never badmouth TP when Wind Waker is the worst 3D Zelda.
The Arbiters Grounds and the Yeti's mansion were cool as frick homie
Wrong.
Twilight Princess was merely okay, but that makes it a masterpiece compared to Wind Waker.
autistic shortstack sex
WW and TP are the best Zelda games, aside from MM which is naturally unbeatable
Both suck but for different reasons.
Miyamoto has no concept of how to make modern games. His mind is forever trapped in 8-bit side-scrolling antiquated garbage, like every senile old frick that is still working in games. The industry as a whole will be better when this old rice patty Black person dies.
he doesn't even make games anymore
He literally has not directed a game since the Gamecube.
Wonder how true it is considering they used toon link through the 2000, Capcom could have made a new Link for Minish Cap same for those DS games.
Windwakers lackluster reception by Zelda fans is why Aonuma got rid of the classic green tunic in newer games. Sheer ugly spite against the fans. Same reason TotK ignores the beasts from BotW, he wants to shit on ANYONE that takes the series seriously. Japanese do not respond well to humiliation and the anger stays with them for life.
I take back anything bad I ever said about Miyamoto.
He said the same thing about TP when he realized it was a shit artstyle, which is why he pivoted to SS and BoTW style after.
No he didn't. TP came about because Aonuma fricked up with Wind Waker and the series nearly died because of it. TP was entirely his suggestion when Aonuma came to him for advice on how to save the franchise.
I know most zoomers won’t know about this, but a lot of Zelda fans hated WW’s art style until it actually came out. Most of us used to refer to it as “Celda”. It wasn’t until playing it that it started to grow on us. Miyamoto’s reaction was pretty much the standard.
Wasn't the Toon Link concept art shit? I can see why Miyamito thought it looked like shit.
Wind Waker was fine as its own thing. Problem is, Aonuma didn't remotely let it be its own thing. He gave WW two fricking sequels (despite WW being divisive and barely outselling MM) and forced the artstyle into several other games outside the WWverse. Pic related are all supposed to be different Links.
Oh, but Twilight Princess (the best selling game until BotW)? Frick you, that just gets an asset-rehash spinoff to promote a dumb accessory. Yes, I'm using "dumb" to refer both to the Wii Zapper being stupid, and it not having any circuitry. Christ, leaving this series to Aonuma was a huge mistake (and bringing Fujibayashi into the 3D games made things worse but that's not relevant here).
Twilight princess is shit and aged like milk, windwaker still looks pristine. what you want is boring, just play dark souls if realism is that important to you.
you know what's boring? traversing an empty sea with terrible side content and the dungeons that are of lower quantity and quality than TP. TP aged more gracefully than WW because in the age of bloated open world shit and lacking zelda dungeons, it's more focused approach with a heavy emphasis on dungeons is more fun than the shitstain wind waker
TP is indistinguishable from every other 3d zelda, I already played that game before, I didn't need it again but with a shit art style. We're also talking primarily about aesthetics, WW ranks among the best looking games ever made, TP is tolerated as an ugly retro game even though it released much later.
Wind Waker is really pretty, but if I gotta call a single Gamecube game the prettiest it's Killer7
K7 was also incredibly based
killer 7 is interesting but I wouldn't call it pretty, it looks like a cheap unity game with broken lighting.
No way, Killer7's art style is the strongest and most stylistic out of any 6th generation console game other than Okami. Wind Waker doesn't even have shading on its characters in 90% of situations, everything looks like a test room. A really pretty test room, but still unfinished. K7 is deliberately evocative of American comic books between the harsh black shadows and use of gradient backgrounds. Being a gritty socio-political commentary on America Suda pretty clearly drew from works such as "Watchmen" for the artstyle inspiration. And with a fraction of Wind Waker's budget, to boot.
If I didn't know better I would have thought the image in your post was from a 1 dollar steam trash kusoge made by an edgy teenager. Killer 7 is carried by directors vision and nice compositions but the actual art style looks like broken lighting on shitty low poly unity trash.
>Unity again
What about Killer7 is "Unity"? The polygonal artstyle is so shadows wrap around the characters in dynamic fashion to give detail, it's obviously meant to look like darker American comics like The Killing Joke or Watchmen that used heavy blacks contrasted against colorful backgrounds. They were limited by the tiny Gamecube discs but still managed to put out the most comic-accurate artstyle in a game since Comix zone on Genesis, this isn't a case of a lazy indie dev buying pre-made models from a store.
>If I didn't know better
Why the "if"? You clearly don't know any better, with certainty.
WW isn't even the best cel shaded game visually of its generation (okami).
>TP is indistinguishable from every other 3d zelda, I already played that game before
a retread of OoT is still miles better than WW's failure of game design
I love Okami, weird that it looks more like Wind Waker's cover art than Wind waker itself does. WW desperately needed outlines.
okami is nice but its less sophisticated than WW and has no visual range, the entire game looks the same.
the fricking nerve of a wind wakergay saying Okami doesn't have visual range, 90% of WW is the same blue ocean bullshit. Frick you
its the truth, every dungeon and island in WW has a completely different mood, the entirety of okami feels like its the same environment because the ink aesthetic is so overpowering and the colour choice all bleeds together.
>Island
Okay bro NOW you're shitting. I could follow with dungeon but there's like 6 biomes for islands, town, forest, rock, volcano, forsaken fortress, and ice.
Reminder that Wind Waker caused a chain reaction so severe that it mindbroke Kensuke Tanabe due to all of the Tingle Hate since that was around the time he adopted the character as his precious son, and he's been doing spiteful bullshit ever since that's killed Paper Mario, Chibi Robo, almost killed Metroid were it not for AM2R, and bastardized plenty of other franchises or spinoffs.
He was also responsible for the slam move in Luigi's Mansion 3, which turned that game from an 8/10 into a 7/10. Him lending even the most trivial explicit touch to games is deleterious.
tingle's barely in ww, so I think you're full of shit
btw the tingle rpgs are better than all the zelda games combined
slam move is great
>tingle's barely in ww
I wouldn't call "being integral to the Triforce Hunt, one of the most divisive parts of the game" as "barely in the game."
You also weren't there for the time because multiple big names for video game publicity in America were shit talking how creepy and weird Tingle was to a point where they "hated" him for being mandatory to completing the game.
I was there, the tingle hate was just online
also he's not annoying in ww, he barely says anything, and he isn't an eyesore like in mm
it was simply a loud minority of mentally challenged gamers
And Nintendo heard them loud and clear, which is why NoA never localized the Tingle Games, rendering them exclusive to Japan and Europe.
Thus, it's not a stretch to assume Tanabe took this personally, as he's notoriously known to be a stubborn petty prick.
The slam move is fricking terrible. You must be easily amused, like a baby you jingle keys towards. It's beyond fricking monotonous and imbalanced.
>adopted the character as his precious son
what the frick are you talking about you schizo
I'm not talking literally, dumbass. But Tanabe is literally the producer behind the Tingle Games, and he's expressed on several occasions that he's sporadically attempted to greenlight more Tingle games, such as a horror game starring him or a game where becomes a "super-powered being."
I can't believe someone is actually using the version that loops correctly.
What I'm getting out of all this is that at least half of Nintendo's biggest names are whiny babies that love to shoot one another in the foot. No wonder it takes half a decade at a time for them to come out with an overall mediocre game.
Yup, and Japan's respect your elders culture means these people can be completely unrestricted unless an even OLDER elder whips them into shape, because critiquing your boss is a death sentence to both your career and your social status in Japanese work culture.
We would be so fricked if we had that culture with absolutely horrible American baby boomers, things are pretty bad but I'm glad they at least aren't that bad
listen, AM2R is a very nice fan project but we both know its in no way responsible for the good position Metroid is in right now.
Samus Returns cropping up just a year after AM2R took off and got DMCA'd feels way too coincidental even to this day, and then Samus Return showed Nintendo there was a developer worthy of finally bringing Dread to life.
Without that, we'd still be in vaporware hell because Tanabe is too much of a stubborn homosexual about Prime 4.
AM2R scared them, as it gave the impression fans considered the series so dead they were just going to start making their own games.
That concept terrifies Nintendo down to their core.
AM2R isnt why they made Samus Returns, the timing was coincidental. Sakamoto seeing potential in Castlevania Mirror of Fate and positive feedback from SR is why Dread got made.
>AM2R isnt why they made Samus Returns, the timing was coincidental.
Still my favorite Zelda design.
The art style wasn't terrible, but I do remember just about everyone in my family being confused by the change. I was still a kid and even I wasn't sure how to feel about it. It grew on us quickly once we actually got our hands on the game, though.
I'm a ALBW/Smash Ultimate fan, but WW Zelder is cute.
I'm not mentally-ill enough to decipher this.
the lipstick is dumb but she's a cutie
so did I, so it's understandable
>He thought Wind Waker was Cringe
>But he would redesign OoT for Banjo&Kazooie
I shouldn't mention the game, let alone the character he spent more time working on drafting with Imamura than he did on Wind Waker.
Frick it, I'm in a cheeky mood.
>Instead of helping on wind waker
>Instead of actually utilizing the power of the console they just made,fulfilling the quality they showed at that e3 demo in OoT style
>Instead of making it a launch title as opposed to a delayed and incomplete game
You got this. Oh well, at least twilight princess as a duel console launch title to cope for it.
OoT and MM are the only good 3D Zelda games.
The more I hear about him, the more it seems like he just drops a random comment about a project that the dev team has to work with.
>>...the original plan for Wind Waker was for Link to use a theremin instead of a conductor’s wand
...what?
How the frick would that work? Link would lug around a theremin with him?Where would he plug it in?
>Cringed at shit waker
>was involved with metroid prime's development and mandated it to be first person despite all logic, only for it to turn out to be one of the best games ever made
>made pikmin
last time miyamoto was based before the wii rotted his brain
Schizo thread
Twilight Princess is simply the best, hard filter for zoom zooms.
But TP is a zoomer game?
>"zoomer game" filters zoomers
hate to see it
I played it when I was 15 and I'm a millennial
The Forest Temple is the best dungeon in Zelda. You cannot dispute this.
>apparently
>allegedly
>i has been reported
>sources say
The only Zelda game from back then that still holds up in looks and will hold up forever.
the oracle games still hold up great
Not really, I mean the decompilation project was very cool and it's great that you can play it on PC now but...it's...it doesn't look great.
oracle not ocarina, learn how to read
>It's kinda weird knowing that Space World 2001 and all the reeling and damage control that followed from the Gamecube's launch up to Reggie stepping onto stage at E3 2004 was knowingly preventable.
GameCube had a whole host of problems unrelated to Wind Waker.
>Nintendo still facing problems as a "kiddie" brand and the GameCube not helping; indications that the purple GameCube mandate came down from Japan
>A lack of games for the GameCube, many of them sequel titles, with games almost completely drying up after the first year
>Rare dragging its feet on new games
>Decision to use mini-DVDs instead of full sized ones like its competitors, meaning all the same issues related to disc media without any advantages and features
>Rare dragging its feet on new games
Rare getting sold off to a rival company. Kameo and Ghoulies were more or less ready for the Gamecube. Dinosaur Planet was already fricked, but the first two games could have been saved.
What about Donkey Kong Racing?
That was still really early in development, so it's anyone's guess.
>A lack of games for the GameCube, many of them sequel titles
Switch does this and gets a free pass
and yet wind waker is the most iconic art style in the series
Is that why they used TP Link in everything up until recently
TP's link zelda and ganon buried WW's iterations instantly so obviously not
Sure it's iconic, of an era of absolutely dogshit Zelda titles. It's an entry that basically killed all the fanbase from OOT/MM.
Why is "muh spaceworld demo" suddenly a fricking thing again? That shit vanished after TP until about a year ago.
Windwaler always had a troony artstyle, Miyamoto realized that but failed in the end judging by the new games coming out like TOTK
Cope. Zelda is a redpilled franchise that makes fun of trannies and gays
>someone actually took that one e-celeb's joke theory seriously
I did too. Still do actually. OoT has a better art style.
funny, because wind waker was the best zelda game on release.
miyamoto fluffers are pathetic.
>WW
>good
pick one. it's the worst 3d zelda
>Nearly killed the series
>NOH IS BEST IN GAEM AND TOON WINK IS GÜD
Not counting the overuse of bloom, Wind Waker HD looks better than the original.
I remember reading that they hid Wind Waker's art style until the last minute from Miyamoto.
He was right. I called it Celda back then and I'll call it Celda now.
Aonuma is such a hack no wonder he had to scurry and hide like a fricking rat to get his dogshit game released in the first place.
for the last 20 years miyamoto has either done nothing or derailed good ideas.
It is starting to feel more and more like developers should only work on games for 10 years before retiring, because after that point anything they worked on has already peaked and they usually get put into positions where they dont do shit anymore like producer or supervisor.
WW Link seemed like Miyamoto's idea, however the true damage is that the game ended up being incomplete, now, imagine if they actually had to restart from scratch back then, we would've had an ever more incomplete game.
Doesn't help that TP wasn't that good either despite it being complete.
From best to worst in full objective terms:
>OoT
>MM
>BotW
>WW
>TotK
>TP
>SS
objectively BOTW is a boring piece of shit that is so bad that its made people start to think SS isn't so shit anymore.
BOTW is a masterpiece in game design. Even Matthewmatosis admitted to it
ya but botw is objectively shit so they're wrong
>Matthewmatosis
Literal who.
Well, Miyamoto is certainly right about something: Twilight Princess has the best art in all of Zelda's games.
I'd argue OoT/MM are on the same level, but TP definitely does a better job of capturing the official art and putting in game.
Yes, I agree.
ah yes truly the best art in the series. get some taste homosexual
Believe it or not people were genuinely praising this art direction because between MM and TP it was nothing but the toon art style, and people wanted a return to the "darker" Zelda they grew up with.
MM and TP are noticeably more cartoonish in their designs than OOT. Every new enemy in MM has large googly eyes which would look completely out of place in OOT. TP follows MM's trend of cartoonish and exaggerated designs, just washed in a layer of dirt.
Nice nitpicking, wienersucker.
all the npcs look like shit. only link and zelda look good
Sure, not every character looks like this, but there's more than a few. These two don't even look like they're from the same video game
That's what a real man who works the farm looks like. Not that homosexual queer with the glasses.
Link and Zelda are the only characters that don't look deformed and unpleasant. Everything outside of Human/Hylian character design is 10/10.
When they actually committed to the art style they did a great job with it. It's like they begrudgingly went the realism route at Miyamoto's request, but couldn't pull away from the goofy character designs of Ocarina and Wind Waker. Was a fan of it in those games, but here, it clashes HARD.
>society making shit up 15 years later to pretend they were hipsters
This must be how Nintendo felt about Fire Emblem Engage.
>I've been doing this for years, so I know best what the consumer wants and I'm never wrong
Old arrogant fricks like Miyamoto are why the music and film industries went to shit along with vidya
I also fricking hated it when it first came out, but that's mostly just because I was hoping for a more 'realistic' OoT artstyle on a new console. My edgy teenage mind was not prepared for toon Link but he's grown on me quite a bit since then
That's fricking hilarious.
Maybe it's because I was a kid when I first played it, but I never hated Wind Waker's art. Actually, I love its artstyle and always have. Now what I DID hate was-
>The awful Forsaken fortress mandatory stealth mission prologue
>Sailing, the boat being so slow and the ocean being twice as big as it needed to be
>basically 80% of the game's side content being loaded onto Windfall and Outset islands, most of the other islands are trash
>the unreasonably large rupee grind for the triforce shards
>needing to mash the B button against Orca for what feels like ten minutes straight
>the awful RNG squid battleship minigame
>dungeons being an awful mixture of incredibly braindead easy but also taking a really long time to complete
pretty much. Wind Waker isn't bad for anything as vapid as its appearance. It's bad because it's actually poorly designed.
so miyamoto really is a pleb that is ruining all their games.
Miyamoto was right to cringe at a mistake like WW
>dude what if we got rid of all the gritty elements that were essential to zelda's aesthetic
>dude what if we made the ocean huge and empty with the same repeating blue color throughout
>dude what if we got rid of all challenge from every aspect of the game
>dude what if we told you how to solve a puzzle in the final dungeon when the solution was a door over
>dude what if we got rid of a few dungeons and replaced them with stupid triforce hunt shit
>dude what if we had the worst dungeons in 3D zelda
>dude what if we tried to give ganon a sympathetic motive at the final battle, never expanded on it and killed him anyway
>dude what if we added a multi-weapon mechanic but made it useless since it drops after opening a door and are all shittier than the master sword anyway
>dude what if we permanently fricked up the timeline
>dude what if we made it so you constantly have to change the wind pattern to even navigate through the shit overworld
>dude what if we made it so that the biggest side quest in the game involves a camera with an extremely limited photo inventory
>dude what if we copy pasted shitty enemy gauntlets all over the world for padding
>dude what if we made the teleporting mechanic limited to a couple squares of the world
>dude what if we had the first major area in the game open up with a shitty stealth segment for no reason
>dude what if...hear me out...what if we made the players farm for butterfly charms to progress
This is actually really persuasive, I don't even care if it's pasta
besides these two I agree
>dude what if we had the worst dungeons in 3D zelda
>>dude what if we had the worst dungeons in 3D zelda
still better than any console zelda to come after it though which is really sad
you're deluded if you think WW has better dungeons than TP/SS
>permanently frick up the timeline
Wind Waker didn't do nearly as much damage as the Demise shit.
yes it did, WW made it so that the zelda series can never have a proper storyline again because it had to shove itself in as an OoT sequel when LttP already existed
Reminder this anon was BTFO here:
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/564825473/#q564827183
ITT: WWtoddler copium
Yeah, so did everyone else.
More and more it becomes very apparent that the only good Zelda games are:
ALttP
LA
OoS
OoA
OoT
MM
Why did it take so long for Ganker to realize this?
oracle games fricking suck dude
t.hard filtered
They have the best dungeons in the entire series while also nearing the top in each other category you could judge them in
>best dungeons
hell no, LttP, LA, OoT, and TP are handily better
Jabu Jabu's belly is contender for worst dungeon of the franchise dude, no way lmao
When I think of best dungeons I think Eagle's tower, Turtle Rock, Face Shrine, Forest Temple, Stone Tower Temple, Arbiter's grounds. Not the Oracles.
adding onto that I would include SS as well, the lanaryu dungeons utterly BTFO anything in the oracle games and the faron ones aren't too shabby either
Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening have the best dungeons in the entire franchise and that's objectively been objectively proven.
Ganker will never admit it because they're popular and Ganker is full of jaded contrarians by nature
I mean, think about it...even in this thread, whenever a post SNES/GB/64 title gets brought up here, it just devolves into shitflinging about those games while the games in those three particular eras sit pretty on the sidelines. Really makes you think huh?
>no TP or MC
Shiggy
I agree about those six being the best but Zelda 1 is kino and I won't pretend it isn't
>OoA
Frick no, Oracle of Fetchquests sucked. It was like the precursor to the horrible padding and busywork laden game design in the GCN/Wii "trilogy".
alttp is overrated boomer shit. I played it without nostalgia a few years ago, its mediocre in every respect and the only way you would rate it that high is if you played it when you were 10 years old. OOT is still fun to go back and play today.
It's not just nostalgia tho, think about what other video games were like in 1991. That game was nuts, man
yeah, that's nostalgia, its pretending to be objective from a subjective past perspective. I dont rate pong and game n watch as top 10 all time greats just because everything else was shit at the time.
Games like WW, OOT and MM are still fun and still have qualities that either compete with or are missing from newer games, boomer shit is only good with the massive qualification that you played it as a child, so it will remain an overrated piece of history for a tiny, ever diminishing sliver of boomers.
OoT is LTTP 3D dumb Black person
if you want to be that reductive every gta game is gta 2 but 3d therefore gta 2 is the best gta game and not a shitty prototype, every 3d mario is 2d mario but 3d therefore 2d mario is indistinguishable from 64.
Just admit you played it when you were 10 years old and it blew your mind 30 years ago but nobody gives a shit now and when your generation dies nobody ever will. Its been almost 20 years and zoomers who never touched them are still rating PS2 era games among the best ever made.
You're right about the reduction, but LttP and OoT share a great deal of design conventions. Even the art style and landscape of earlier builds was similar to LttP.
After collecting 3 stones that are colored Green Red and Blue you gain access to the Master Sword, you then must get the help of the seven people who each carry the blood of a sage while moving between two parallel worlds in order to enter Ganon's Tower.
Which game did i just describe?
so you're pretending the synopsis has any bearing on how a game is perceived when its in play? that a game would have been 100% different if the orb was pink instead of green and if there were 4 instead of 3? You can make the same argument about metroid yet in this very thread there are 2d metroid fans who dont understand 3d metroid.
Add the NES games and I can get behind this.
>No Zelda 1 and 2
have a nice day.
Kind of agree with these anons. Zelda 1 and 2 are still kino.
guys it's almost 2024, can we stop pretending like ALttP is in the top 3 zelda games? zelda II is unironically better.
Zelda 2 remake when?
ALTTP and OoT are the only good ones, the series was always mostly mid
>crapcom games
>good
I hate Ganker
I'm 33 and have played every game in the franchise and I think I have to agree with this. Maybe I'd add Wind Waker as well.
What's the best way to play TP nowadays? Emulating GC, Wii, or Wii U? It's the only 3D one I haven't played yet.
WiiU version is probably the best because it cuts down on the bloom and the early bug hunt stuff with the wolf. Also has hero mode and ganon amiboo thing to make the game even harder (original game is disgustingly easy like WW). Might want to hold off in case they release it on switch/switch 2, hopefully without the need for a ganondorf mcdonalds toy for double damage
i remember pretty comfy vibes
Metroid is a better series.
Super? Better than ALttP
Zero Mission and Fusion? Better than all other 2D Zeldas
Prime and Prime 2? Better than WW and TP
Prime 3? Better than SS.
Samus Returns? Worse than ALBW I guess. Pity win.
Dread?? Better than BotW and TotK
Fusion is shittier than all the main 2D zeldas except 2, Dread is not better than botw/totk
>Except 2
2 is a great game and I don't care how much people might disagree. It's a side scrolled on par with the good Castlevania games, in fact it's between than Castlevania 2. It's very different from the Zelda formula and thats the main reason people cry about it
2 bros unite
2 is better than the GBA games
Prime 3 and SS have such similar problems it's not much of a comparison.
But 3/5 is respectable.
Couldn't help but notice you omitting OoT Metroidbro
Well, there's nothing to compare them too but they are thr only two games on par.
I only liked super and zero mission and the best metroid is a fan remake of 2.
prime series kinda sucks and I'd rather they just make more 2d games.
I adore Super Metroid, Zero Mission and Dread and I just don't get the Prime Worship. The games are so damn slow, Samus moves at Tofu Boy speeds and everything takes three times longer to kill than it should.
Its more confusing the other way round, Prime is completely unique, there are no games that play or feel like it. Since super metroid there have ben 500000 games that refine and surpass it. I dont know how you can still give a shit about 2d Metroid in 2023 while its obvious why a prime fan would still rate that series highly.
Prime is unique, uniquely slow and boring.
As for 2D Metroid I see it as level of polish, sure there's also a thousand and one 3D platformers that TECHNICALLY do what Mario 64 did, but Mario 64 absolutely mogs all of them
The last 2d metroid felt incredibly unpolished and budget, more so than even solo metroidvania projects. 2d games in general are easier to replicate and improve on.
Wind waker is the worst toon zelda game and Botw/Totk are not Zelda
this man is a fraud
guaranteed replies
anyways, you gays can never agree on game shit
now post the gamecube girls
I too cringe when I see Zeldashit
Nintendo literally issued an apology to fans a week or two after windwaker came out. It's funny how cube babbies either forgot this or weren't conscious of it.
Didn't Aonuma publicly apologize for the shit Triforce Hunt?
Yes and the sailing and the lack of dungeons
That probably happened too but a week or two after WW came out Nintendo held a press conference and did a vague apology to fans who felt betrayed by their recent releases and promised they would return to making fun stuff or something of that nature. They never specifically mentioned WW but because it was clearly in response to its reception and they more or less admitted they were intentionally trying to shift their target demo to small children which windwaker fans were incessantly denying. They basically admitted to pandering before thinking.
For anyone that wants to read some Zelda
https://nyaa.si/view/1131024
https://nyaa.si/view/1656346
https://nyaa.si/view/1748359
Finally, Zelda only has two buttcheeks, not four.
The biggest crime with WW's artstyle is that they tried to reuse it for PH and ST. And the result is the ugliest Zelda games ever made.
The evolution of Zelda based on review scores
>The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - 95% (17 Reviews)
>The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - 99.2% (37 Reviews)
>The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask - 94% (40 Reviews)
>The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker - 95% (180+ Reviews)
>The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - 95% (55 Reviews)
>The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - 93% (82 Reviews)
>The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - 96% (172 Reviews)
>The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom - 96% (153 Reviews)
>MM that low
Of course it did. It almost filtered me when I first tried to play it as a kid. Granted, MM was actually my first Zelda game, but the time mechanic introduces a new form of anxiety. As a kid, I had no real concept of time management. I woke up at 6:00, got to school by 7:00, adhered to the school's strict schedule, got home by 15:30, ate dinner at 18:00 and went to bed by 20:00. No child that age actually had to manage time. Majora's Mask was new to me.
>>The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask - 94%
That time mechanic really did filter a lot of people, didn't it?
And it's still one of the better 3D Zelda games.
>Gamecube's launch up to Reggie stepping onto stage at E3 2004 was knowingly preventable.
What the hell did Reggie do? Reggie was a figurehead and Nintendo America is a conduit for Nintendo Japan to more easily operate in the United States and Canada. Everything between the time Inuyasha Yoshimitsu stepped down and the Switch was released, was Iwata's direction.
But RIP Iwata
Reading Reggie's book is funny, he writes a ton about his work for Pizza Hut, Crisco, and his work for Nintendo during the Wii and DS eras. But then Wii U era he's dead silent about, lmao
Sadly there's not a lot of books on working at Nintendo. If there's subjects where there's not enough temptation to deliberately paint subjects in a negative light (i.e. politics) stories told from a different perspective could be interesting to read.
I wonder what Reggie was really like...after all, it was under him when a lot of the Treehouse censorship/localization butchering took off.
>Inuyasha Yoshimitsu
Miyamoto is the most overhated Nintendo developer
Tanabe and Aonuma are the most underhated ones
Masuda and Todd Howard are the most underhated developers in general
Kojima and Miyazaki are in a perfect equilibrium of hated and beloved, thoguh their popularity is ever shifting they are in perfect homeostasis of being reviled and beloved
what? nobody hates Miyazaki, people like yoko taro or kamiya are much closer to having a love hate equilibrium and even then they are still liked much more than they are hated.
Miyazaki has no fans
I see people sucking his dick every time a new game is announced yet I dont think I've ever seen anyone shitting on him beyond meme posts about zanzibart tier storytelling, which itself is an overblown salty reaction from a fricking borderlands 3 writer.
Aonuma has the Nomura issue, he goes full fricking moron when left to his own devices, but can and has done fantastic work when someone is keeping an eye on his bullshit.
It's not an ugly style, I just know his original plan for Zelda wasn't a cel-shaded moeblob style or a Ghibli style like in BoTW/ToTK.
That being said, the Ghibli style looks nice at higher resolutions if it's not particularly unique or original.
Link to the past > wind waker > majora's mask > botw > everything else
It shouldn’t come as a surprise that the best Zelda games were the ones given to the B staff with minimal supervision (LA), Capcom (Oracle games) or pushed out on a strict deadline before the soul could be squeezed out (Majora’s)
TOTK had a whole extra year after completion for polish and they still couldn’t add in any interesting gameplay or story content
>Ascend was a smart way to ass vertical movement
>Most of the mountain faces have ugly Zonai blocks stick out of them now
>Ascend doesn't work on the vast majority of them, they're either too high up or have sloped undersides
It does work, but you need a lot of patience to find the pixel perfect spot that will register.
>TOTK had a whole extra year after completion for polish and they still couldn’t add in any interesting gameplay or story content
Probably a little more than an extra year, depending on how late the announcement delay came after the actual decision and when the game finally went gold (delay announced in late Mar 2022, copies that broke street date showed up at the very end of Apr 2023). And I'm sorry, I'm one of THOSE people - I don't think "polish" was nearly the full story for the final delay. I do think Elden Ring played a role in it, though I'm not one who thinks that it was the be-all end-all reason. More like the tipping point.
Part of me wants to believe they all looked at Elden Ring making an open world that wasn't a glorified sandbox and shivered.
Shit man, barring marketing articles, TotK all but fizzled out of the discourse in little over one or two months, imagine what would happen if it released last year.
It's more liked they just looked at twitter and saw all the wacky shit people were doing stuff like the flying mind cart and thought "hey we can build an entire game around this, and since people want to fly lets do shit in the sky". I doubt it was anything beyond that.
Core mechanics and world design aspects like those don't explain the final delay though, not with it coming suspiciously soon after Elden Ring firmly planted its foot up 2022 gaming's ass for the rest of the year for about a solid month before the delay announcement.
I just want a Zelda game that goes heavy into the swords & sorcery style of the 80s. I want fricking Wizards and Mages, and Link seriously fighting other swordsmen and knights. Medieval European style shit. I enjoyed BotW and TotK but I'm tired of that. Cut it with the ancient alien ancient technology. And gives us new villain who isn't going to just end up being a puppet of Ganon, and if it's Ganon again give us a unique take on him.
Also frick weapon durability, the gimmick is old. I want a sword that actually feels powerful again.
Slow day huh? Did any legit source get posted in this thread yet?
https://web.archive.org/web/20131112020245/http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2013/09/09/eiji-aonuma-the-legend-of-zelda-wind-waker-hd/
This is the best source I can track down (the website seems to be defunct now, hence posting an archive.org link).
How is it possible that the Wolf end up more shallow than the THREE different transformations masks in MM? A game which was not delayed and took far less time to make?
I cringed When First Shown Breath Of The Wild.
How will IT be remembered though?
Sequel which somehow manages to be mediocre while simultaneously obsoleting the game it's a sequel to.
>even GayXplain was willing to say boo to TotK at all, as relatively early as they did
That was the first sign I had that I wasn't totally off my fricking rocker for noticing how much anti-fun I was having with TotK. The explosive reception to BotW at least made sense on paper - it was a fairly bold departure for Zelda for better and for worse (even if it took too long for people to start admitting that they noticed the worse) and there was an entire large world to explore, so it had novelty and mystery on its side. With TotK, though, it really felt like people were comparatively almost "forcing" themselves to worship it to the degree they first did, as if it was done out of obligation more than from genuine initial enthrallment. The "Nintendo, uh, how the FRICK did you make this game" and "every developer is totally stumped on how Nintendo made this game" talking points were especially corny and blatantly artificial as hell
The weird thing is, one of the guys think BotW is one of his all time favorite games. Maybe I'm just blind but I can't see how one could prefer BotW to TotK...when it does just about everything better aside from the Sage powers. Better bosses, Better dungeons (while still being underwhelming), more enemies (not huge amount but still there), better music, etc. I just don't get it...well, maybe if you hate the build mechanic then sure I can see it I guess..
I definitely see the iffiness if he still likes BotW enough to be one of his top favorites while being cognizant of TotK's commonly cited flaws (since there's a lot of shared or similar flaws between the two). But I can absolutely understand the notion of liking BotW more than TotK at all.
>better bosses
Fair point, TotK absolutely wins here hands-down. Having four visually similar Ganon incarnations was a frickup on BotW's part.
>better dungeons (while still being underwhelming)
Eh, the atmosphere is much better in TotK's, but there's still only five of them (which feels like a gigantic waste of Hyrule, not to mention the Sky and Depths), the first four dungeons revolve around the same regions and mostly the same characters as BotW's main four, and their designs lose something in being even more free-flow while lacking any sort of unique mechanical aspect like BotW's Divine Beasts being manipulatable and dynamic. I'll call this one a wash, both these games dropped the ball hard on dungeon design.
>more enemies (not huge amount but still there)
Sure, but they rarely feel like substantially different encounters from the returning foes (though that's arguably more an issue with how open-ended and mechanically consolidated the core game is).
>better music, etc.
Nah, both scores were mostly forgettable.
Gonna address other points besides your own that might cause a preference for BotW in another post, sit tight.
I can see that. BoTW's world was made to fit BoTW. All of the landmarks and shrine locations were carefully studied. There are giant sections of the maps made for Kass questline, sections made for the memories and sections made for shrine placement. In ToTK, where once was Kass you now just have weird purposeless rock formations, giant columns lead to an empty square in a ground where once was a shrine. Sections with memories are now just random landmarks at most hosting an hacked in new shrine. Add to that you can even more easily bypass the few ground sections made to be linear experiences like the path to Zora's domain or the river nearby Kakariko and you are left with a perplexing game which if you didn't know it was the sequel to BOTW you would question a lot of the world's design of
In addition to addressing your points:
>BotW is overall more cohesive in its design philosophies; for example, the very beginning of BotW is far less "on rails" and you can get going on the Great Plateau quickly with few and brief interruptions which made it great for replays... but TotK starts with a mandatory Uncharted walking segment and an unusually unskippable cutscene before you can even begin the Great Sky Island, and then it breaks your flow just when you've gotten going to force you to learn about Heart Containers with a mandatory failed check, which is far less enjoyable for replays
>the building mechanic is certainly a technical achievement and conceptually amazing... but the game's own overall open-ended nature arguably works against it unless you absolutely crave spectacle or self-imposed challenge, since the best solutions to building/fusing-related puzzles rarely make strong or diverse use of the intricacies therein, with "intended" or dazzling solutions being far more tedious to facilitate with no extra palpable reward
>fusing is also a cool idea, but the way it's done here boils down to being just a solution solving a new problem that didn't exist in BotW (metal weapons being degraded)
>there's too many Shrines in TotK, and while the dev-intended "earlier" Shrines are rock solid, you can tell that they really ran out of steam quickly and recycle shit or make playgrounds that don't even pretend to have any sort of intended mechanical structure
>the Sky islands after the Great Sky Island are infrequent and what's there is repetitive and bland
>the Depths suck and are the biggest letdown, it's the same goddamn biome all over the span of Hyrule
>reusing the same world as BotW doesn't cause much wonder or amazement in a returning player, but rather fatigue
Overall, TotK is a bigger package, but BotW is a more focused and immediately engaging package. There's a case to be made for preferring it over TotK to a degree.
Fair enough, the depths were definitely a wasted opportunity, and if I were to assume they either just ran out of time, used it as a test ground for a future game, or just intended it to be a large grind fest. The team isn't stupid and ARE talented, so leaving it as largely vapid as it was is puzzling.
My speculation is that the Depths weren't always going to be a full Hyrule-sized interconnected map, but then they changed their minds and this was one of the things that motivated that final year-long delay.
The devs probably felt that they had to have a stricter tutorial for Tears of the Kingdom due to the relative complexity of some of the new mechanics. You can easily tell that TotK was made for new players in mind; the game only barely references the previous game and all you really need to know is that some important thing happened a few years back.
At the end of the day, tutorials are made for the lowest common denominator. YOU may not need them, but most people do because most people are moronic, and Zelda games are usually made for moronic people. Most video games are in general. That's why idiotproofing is such an important part of nearly every game's development nowadays.
Except the weird thing is that a lot of the "extra" tutorialization and railroading doesn't even apply to the new mechanics - you just get a brief explanation of the new Abilities in their Shrines.
You could probably at least chalk Link up to the Sheikah tech that suspended his ageing in BotW. Zelda though, no goddamn clue. Vague Triforce magic?
That's a consistency thing that bugs the shit out of me - the returning headgear from BotW just forces whatever hairstyle he had with them in that game (so usually the ponytail unless it's something that covers the back of the head), yet you have to dedicate an entire defenseless clothing slot to the goddamn hair-tie if you want it alone. They should've made the hair-tie a toggle in the key items menu, not a piece of clothing.
Well the hair-tie doesn't factor into most of his headgear. Either Link's hair is mostly covered or he gets a slightly altered hairstyle with a new hair-tie anyway.
Can't speak for others, but for me:
>BotW Controls
A little overstuffed, needed assignable buttons like most Zelda games have
Not too much pausing at least, only while swapping out runes/weapons/arrows
>TotK Controls
Incredibly overstuffed, DESPERATELY needed assignable buttons like most Zelda games have
Constant fricking pausing to fuse, pull out devices, throw shit, fuse stuff to arrows, etc, etc. etc.
>BotW Tutorial
Cutscene. Get control in a room. Cutscene. Short corridor. Cutscene. Huge amounts of potential freedom, though practically you'll walk down the hill to the old man, then in the general direction of the tower you'll get a cutscene for. Once you activate the tower, you have to do one shrine first, then go back to the tower, then do the rest in any order. Go to the Temple, use the Goddess Statue (or don't), cutscene, jump down from the Plateau to finish. Along the way there's plenty of stuff to find including a treasure (the cold weather clothes) that you can unlock in multiple different ways.
>TotK Tutorial
Cutscene. Corridor interrupted with lots of dialogue. Can't speed through it - Zelda moves at a constant rate even if you run straight to the first trigger point. Unskippable cutscene. Wake up, get a long linear sequence that ends after your first shrine and offers very little freedom. From there you can technically do the next two shrines in either order but one is very encouraged and either way you're walking along a linear gauntlet with a few optional offshoots. Go back to the Temple, cutscene, more linear corridor, cutscene, warp back to the start of the area for another corridor to shrine 4. Backtrack again, get forced to upgrade, more cutscene, linear corridor, jump down to surface.
But we're not done yet! Even though now you have absolute freedom, what you're supposed to do is walk to Lookout Landing, talk to Purah, walk to the Castle, cutscene, backtrack, cutscene, Tower, cutscene, cutscene, finally fricking done.
1/5
>BotW Powers
Magnesis, which lets you move certain things around but not everything
Bombs, which provide you a backup weapon that will not scale with your enemies but will make sure you always have something even w/o any real weapons on hand
Stasis, which has applications in combat, puzzles, & transit though isn't always the most convenient
Cryonis, limited technique only good around water but provides defense & mobility
Champion powers are great post-dungeon rewards, though Mipha's Grace needed another cooldown
Not a power exactly, but stamina wheel has a couple exploits to make it decrease less
Flurry Rush is a bit OP but consistent, Shield Parry has a useful function and it makes sense that it's way harder than FR to pull off
No anti-slip ability, genuine con
>TotK Powers
Ultrahand, which lets you move anything except some arbitrary chests. Also builds vehicles. Suffers both from lack of limitations and from lack of necessity - you optimize your vehicle use for the best stuff and move on. It's also very tedious.
Fusion, one-note combat
Ascend, one-note mobility
Rewind, which is utterly broken in a wide variety of ways but is at least somewhat situational
Autobuild, whose unlockable schematics become obsolete by the time you find most of them but at least makes Ultrahand less annoying... but is hidden behind a semi-locked side quest to get
Sage powers are frustrating post-dungeon rewards, Wind and Fire trigger whenever you don't want them to while Lightning avoids you at all costs
Stamina wheel exploits have been patched to accelerate loss of stamina instead of just doing nothing specifically to punish players
Flurry Rush is still OP but way less consistent, Shield Parry is completely useless and has no business being so much harder to do now
Anti-slip ability has been added... but only if you upgrade it fully w/ Fairies
New Zonai Devices damage doesn't scale, meaning many are obsolete by the time you can really rely on them
2/5
>BotW World Design
World is a bit too large and rewards are samey, but there's a lot to see and rewards around every corner - plus world was new
No underworld or anything, but also no part of the world feels like a straight rip-off of another region
Any memory order works
Getting the amount of rupees you need to 100% the game is feasible w/o grinding and there's only a bit of item grinding
Said item grinding, the dragons, is not a ridiculous hassle
3 mini-bosses w/ some subtypes that you fight 84 times - too much but not WAY too much
Horses and sand seals provide fun new ways of exploring
Korok collectibles are too much but hey, when you're fully upgraded your weapon, shield, and bow pages are filled - and there's only them
Full Guardians are a horrifying threat until pretty late in the game and each one feels like an epic fight until the castle as a result
>TotK World Design
World is way too large and rewards are even more spread out, making increased variety useless - and world is just a repeat of BotW
Depths, caves, & wells are all very repetitive while sky islands are literally copy and pasted
One correct tear order; anything else will confuse the player
Getting the amount of rupees you need to 100% the game requires excessive amounts of grinding
Lots of item grinding due to decreased rewards, the dragons are ridiculous now
Vehicles clash heavily with horses and sand seals for exploration - no point in all of these systems now
3 new mini-bosses plus the new boss rematches - but there's about 300 of these now - way, WAY too much even w/ old ones
Even more Koroks now, bow page will never be filled - and you need to get Bubbul Crystals too and help the sign guy a bunch and you'll need a shitton of Poes and Zonaite
Gloom Hands are not remotely a substitute for Guardians and the Phantom Ganondorfs become annoying as you go
3/5
>BotW Villages
Kakariko has quiet village theming and fun characters who turn out to have some good depth as you revisit over the course of the game
Hateno is a charming farming community that you can pretty much one-and-done but has some unique reasons to return
Lurelin is a quaint beach that you have to go out of your way to find and is very chill with callback mini-game
Tarrey is a town you build from the ground up over the course of your playthrough
Zoras are at the end of a difficult gauntlet to reach but are the only people who really remember you
Gorons have tight-knit mining community amid the terrifying lava
Ritos are pretty meh but hey they talk about Kass
Gerudo have huge city with a lot of features and funny clothing requirement
Koroks exist
>TotK Villages
Lookout is nice new space but stands out poorly next to ruins of Hyrule Castle that haven't been restored
Kakariko is now so bustling that the FPS tanks, no depth to people
Hateno has garish mushrooms literally everywhere
Lurelin has become the Tarrey replacement but it's very half-assed in comparison
Tarrey is ungrateful hellhole that pretends you had nothing to do with the populace having homes and jobs
Zoras barely seem to remember you either, shrine alcove is a weirdly empty place now
Gorons have managed to both become a complete ghetto of drug addicts and gone through urban flight, spread out all over the damn mountain, no lava
Ritos are actually kind of improved but they don't talk about Kass so frick 'em
Gerudo community is completely ruined, clothing requirement completely tossed aside
Koroks actually improved I guess
4/5
>BotW Dungeons
Divine Beasts are indistinguishable but dynamic and none feels insultingly small
Bosses are samey but range from acceptable (Water) to tough (Lightning) - bonus Sheikah boss a lot of fun
Simple intro/exit cutscenes, repetitive but unique to each one
Shrines match aesthetic and have good variety of combat, puzzle, and sidequest reward
Shrine sidequests are varied and interesting
Shrines sometimes have armor in them but almost always have a good reward
Yiga Hideout is an acceptable stealth mission
Trial of the Sword is a hell of a multi-part challenge
Hyrule Castle is what every dungeon in these two games should have been, a massive space with many approaches and secrets
>TotK Dungeons
Temples have strong themes but they lack cool controls and Water Temple is a joke
Bosses are varied but range from pathetic (Colgera) to "not difficult but a pain in the ass anyway" (Mucktorok) - robot boss is good but not great
Exhausting cutscenes that repeat word for word and do not stop. I had to press the "Skip" Button SIX TIMES after beating Colgera before regaining control of Link and there was some dialogue to speed through too.
Shrines have their own uglier aesthetic, their variety is extra tutorials, regular puzzle, physics puzzle, Eventide repeat, and sidequest reward - the latter way too frequent
Shrine sidequests are almost entirely all "go find a crystal and walk it over"
Shrines never have armor in them and sometimes the only reward you get is "Sundelion" or something equally insulting
No Yiga Hideout stealth segment
No Trial of the Sword
Hyrule Castle is broken in two, destroying it. New final dungeon is ANOTHER fricking linear gauntlet
All of the above is why I prefer BotW to TotK
5/5
>none feels insultingly small
15 minutes to an hour each lmao
>Hyrule Castle is what every dungeon in these two games should have been
While a neat location to navigate at a broad level, it lacks in nearly every other aspect and suffers from the same things the rest of the game does in not really having much to find or reason to go find them
Even having strong enemies is kind of irrelevant when the combat system is kind of ass and incentivizes you to just skip all the enemies, which the game makes easy
None of the BotW dungeons are large, but none feel insultingly small - I didn't beat any in 15 minutes at least. TotK's Water Temple is an insult, flat out.
As for Hyrule Castle, I count a hidden shrine, a memory, an armor set, side quest stuff in the library, a couple optional diaries, the best shield in the game, and a variety of high tier weaponry and loot. I'm not saying it couldn't be improved, but it's really not lacking.
Yeah exactly. TotK has a way better presentation than BotW but that's not the same as quality.
>Bosses are samey but range from acceptable (Water) to tough (Lightning)
The bosses aren't actually that bad mechanically. Waterblight is interesting as you have a variety of ways to tackle him, and Lightning is tough even if a little monotonous with it's focus on being a flurry rush/shield bash check. Fire and Wind aren't anything to write home about, but there are worse bosses in the series. These bosses have shit all in the way of presentation, but they're mechanically different. Koga is fun, Maz Koshia is great, Calamity Ganon is decent. Dark Beast is failed victory lap boss, which is more of a testament to Calamity Ganon not quite being up to snuff than it is the boss being bad.
TotK was the opposite. The bosses have much better presentation but they are far worse from a mechanical perspective.
>Jewtubers
they will flip flop back to praising it when the next mainline game comes out
As the game that realised what BotW should've been. BotW with soul.
I think as time goes on it will have a weaker reception. People love it right now because they waited 5 years for it with no spin offs and were starved for zelda.
Eventually this "every game takes 5+ years" shit is going to become unsustainable for companies. Its incredibly risky and can just flat out kill franchises if it fails.
The internet will find something new to be pointlessly contrarian about and it will be fondly remembered as a great game.
I AM interested in seeing what he has to say about the game. The other"big" Zelda critique tubers already reviewed it (Nerrell and KingK) with one thinking it was way too derivative and the other loving it.
>being interested in the opinions of youtubers
kys please my man
the frist 3-4 hours of twilight princess are a slog to play through
It's comfy playing as a country boy Link
The entire game of Wind Waker is a slog to play through
Its max comfy vibes though, and does a great job of setting up the world and characters.
brown and bloom - the game. it's ugly as frick, the intro is boring as frick, the wolf parts are boring as frick.
the only good zelda games are Zelda 1,2 ALTTP, Awakening and OOT.
You never even made it to the Yeti Mansion.
>brown and bloom - the game
so almost every game of that era?
yep, and it was a shit era for games.
Imagine if the Zelda series was remotely good other than maybe Majora's Mask lmao.
How much do you think Aonuma actually LISTENS to criticism Ganker? It seems so inconsistent. With WW to TP, there was a clear reaction to the complaints about WW and then tone was changed to be more in line with TP (though I've heard this was more on Miyamoto's suggestion than Aonuma's), and he also apologized for the Triforce Hunt. With SS to ALBW there was a clear reaction to how linear Zelda had become with the former and e made the game mostly open to do in any order. But it seems with BotW to TotK he just put his earplugs on doubled down with Fujibayashi on many things many fans were disgruntled with. So does he actually listen or was the boom in the money he made, just make him go "well, frick the 30 something's online kek!"
I think Nintendo in general just doesn't listen to fan feedback as much anymore. People like reggie clearly had no problem speaking plainly with miyamoto and co about how the west felt about certain things. Doug bowser seems like a yes man who doesn't want to stir the pot.
This. Seriously, the West care more about Zelda then Japan.
Pretty much. That's why it confused me when one of the directors called Link a samurai. I was like dafuq...
Well of course the Japanese devs would use Japanese contexts. Plus, it's pretty clear that BotW/TotK is intensely inspired by Japanese aesthetics and mythologies. Ganondorf uses a katana and Japanese bow for frick's sake.
The Hyrulian soldiers all wear obviously western-inspired plate armor, and pretty sure Link even wears that in Age of Calamity
It's pretty much the same thing in this game's context. Samurai are for all intents and purposes Japanese knights anyway.
I mean, were they? I don't know much about eastern history, but at the very least I know they weren't wearing european plate armor guarding European castles that use western angelic/mother mary hybrid imagery with Hylia. Kakariko is OBVIOUSLY Japanese inspired, so they weren't just mashing the cultures together.
Sure. A knight is just a soldier in the service of a king or lord. Your equipment doesn't matter. Link is for all intents and purposes a wandering ronin searching for his lord.
Fair, but why did they call Link a samurai? It's like dressing up a guy in a Mickey Mouse costume and calling him a Universal studios mascot.
Because again, the equipment doesn't matter. "Knight" and "samurai" are just jobs. A knight's still a knight even if he's wearing a suit and tie so long as he was knighted. And a samurai's a samurai regardless of whether he's wearing wooden armor or not.
Because it was talking about his aesthetic and why they decided to go with a ponytail over the floppy green hat they called silly looking.
>why did they call Link a samurai?
They called Link a Samurai? They call him Kishi in the moonrunes version of BotW/TotK. It can technically mean a mounted samurai (if were using the historic context of the word), but it's much more commonly used to refer to Western Knights in media.
I respect your appreciation of SS and OoT, but we really have different tastes.
NTA, out of curiosity, what didn't you enjoy about WW and TP? I think TP is fine where it is, but I'd personally bump WW up one.
I enjoy both a lot. Just not as much as the others. Also I really need to drop TotK a peg or two.
Anyway, for WW: Artstyle, pacing, dungeons quantity/quality (I think they're the weakest in the series). For TP: Artstyle, pacing, dungeons quality (they're average rather than bad), and music, plot. I guess my biggest problem for TP is it never really feels like it excels at everything, it just comes off as rather lukewarm. And while I enjoy it, it never really lived up the hype I initially had for it.
But him and Miyamoto have gone on recording stating they knew about the "Zelda cycle". They have to be listening...a little?
>they knew about the "Zelda cycle"
They throw shit at a wall and hope it sticks.
In the modern day of social media its pretty much impossible not to hear some things. But they seem pretty content now a days, assuming a product doesn't just outright flop and demand market research.
Maybe the problem is less on Nintendo and more on the fans. Normalgays seem to happily eat up anything they're given and thus drown out the opinions of serious fans on any given platform.
Honestly, Reggie was the opposite extreme since he started to lose the actual pulse of western gamers. He was the one that made the big push for Nintendo to not ease up on pandering primarily to the Wii Sports/Fit crowd for the Wii even well after getting its foot in the door, to the point of temporarily or fully blocking various Japanese Wii "core" games from release in America (Xenoblade 1 being the most infamous example) despite the Wii slumping hard halfway into its lifespan. This also heavily poisoned the WiiU and severely confused Nintendo on who their market was/should be for it.
The reason I think Bowser was picked was because he spearheaded the initial advertising and promotion of the Switch (which, credit where it's due, he absolutely nailed since the Switch hit the ground running saleswise).
I don't think reggie is perfect, but I would personally have somebody super passionate who makes mistakes than somebody who plays everything safe and bland.
Hell, bowser has been CEO for 4 years and the only thing I know about him is his name. I don't think I've seen a single interview from him or anything. I hated the wii and think they fricked up hard with the wiiu, but reggie clearly had some passion:
I definitely miss the more public-facing leadership that Reggie provided. Bowser lacks that completely.
It's probably on purpose. Bowser doesn't want to just come across as Reggie 2.0. The only thing of interest I saw from him was seeing Mario and Luigi tied on the desk behind him during some video. Just a little joke but not to the point of Reggie.
>TP was a reaction to WW.
>ALTTP2 3DS was a reaction to both the DS Zelda and Skyward Sword.
>BOTW was a reaction to Skyward Sword.
Sounds like they react all the time. Only time they didn't listen was Crossbow Training. This also cements that Skyward was an even lower point that Wind Waker.
Wind Waker was disappointing in the wake of Space World 2000's OoT Link/Ganondorf fight.
Skyward Sword was wagglan when people were sick of wagglan and constant inanity and interruptions to the point the Switch port used "cutting out all the dumb bullshit" as a feature, not to mention shit like its E3 presentation and the fact that you needed either a new type of Wiimote or a new addition to your Wiimote.
Yes it was arguably even a lower point than WW.
I say this as someone that actually liked SS.
But why didn't they really react to BotW with TotK is what I mean. They doubled down on literally everything. People got tired of Shrines? Bring them back but more. People didn't like memories? Bring them back again. People didn't like durability? Bring it back and make it even more tedious for those that hated it. Traditional dungeons? Gave them a name but kept the same style of activate things to open. Seems they kinda ignored them this time.
People whining on the internet non-stop about the inane is not something worth reacting to.
BOTW's 30 million sales and TOTK hitting 20 million in a matter of months is a validation.
>People didn't like memories? Bring them back again.
*Bring them back again but make them worse by using them to convey a linear story that features plot twists while still discoverable out of order (oh and also don't Link do anything with learning the truth of the "Zelda" sightings or the real Zelda being a dragon to clear directly-relevant plot flags). Seriously, people don't give TotK enough shit for this. Both the core story itself sucks ass, but it's made worse by also being at odds with the game's design.
Do Nintendo programmers not know how to implement triggers or something? For some reason they just had to show the same scene at the end of all 4 dungeons instead of having it only play in the first one.
Fanboys constantly talk about how technically impressive BotW/TotK are but they lack basic design elements you could find in indie RPGs.
The shared Sage exposition at the end of Temples was such dogshit, and thankfully people at least DO seem to call that one out. But nobody also brings up just how comparatively superior the Champions' dialogue at the end of Great Beasts was in comparison.
>Do Nintendo programmers not know how to implement triggers or something?
Actually, fricking MAJORA'S MASK in 2000 figured this out. If you defeat bosses out of order, you still get the Giant cutscenes in the same sequence.
The worst part is that the champions dialogue was also bad. It’s sad that it seems so much better in comparison
You gotta remember that a lot of zoomzooms confuse "Twilight Princess is a good game" for "Midna makes my dingle tingle."
I love TP and I am repulsed by thirst for Midna. I didn't even know people liked her like that until I discovered this degenerate shithole. I'm a millenial though so maybe zoomers are just more depraved.
Wind Waker is literally the worst Zelda until SkyWHY sword
I'm glad Aonuma went forward with the design, because it looks great. Moreover, it really helped with the GBA & DS Zelda games.
Not sure how true this is, but I remember seeing somewhere that he didn't even want to do another Zelda game after WW, but Miyamoto convinced him to stay and make TP more realistic to appeal to the west.
He didn't want to be a director anymore but Miyamoto basically shoved him onto Twilight Princess director duties because the Zelda team was just spinning wheels and they needed something to save the Gamecube/give the Wii a launch title.
>uuuuhh windu raker style is so shitu
>i wana zelda vith big diddies, not a childu, i want big diddies
Thank you anon. I have not browsed Kotaku in over a decade. It feels good to read something I've known for close to to one and a half.
he was right windwaker sucks
TP bros we were right all along.
wind waker is now fixed
>still just cosmetic mods for WW
says a lot about its fanbase
ITT homosexuals jumping through all kinds of hoops to just pretend that WW's art style wasn't a massive turnoff and that TP and BOTW's art styles weren't a big reason people gave those games way more attention.
>link looking like that using a theremin
Fricking miyamoto is so based. WW is why link is a queer now. Should have gatekpt your company better
>Miyamoto hated MM and removed Koizumi from Zelda
>Miyamoto killed the TP sequel for Link's Crossbow Training
>Miyamoto forced waggle
>Miyamoto is the one who put Aonuma up to directing Zelda in the first place
Miyamoto is a hack
>windwaker still looks great today.
>BOTW looked fricking awful even on release.
what went wrong.
Why did everyone except Link and Zelda age? Apparently, enough time has passed between BotW and TotK for Mushroom-Head to have a kid, and now that kid's like 5 or something. Link still looks like a kid. Hell, a few NPCs even refer to him as a kid. Is he straight up ageless now?
I'm sure theres some bullshit lore reason, but the real reason is they wanted to reuse the models.
Link should have at least had a small growth spurt.
I like to think that the cryostasis from the previous game slowed his aging down for a while, and that he'll resume aging normally once it completely wears off.
Because it's not a linear singleplayer game it's a open world that they just choose not to because that requires more effort than realistically possible
>Miyamoto Apparently ‘Cringed’ When First Shown Wind Waker’s Art Style
We all did. My older brother who isn't even as hardcore of a gamer that loved OOT saw it and got excited for a new Zelda but after watching the commercial for it back in 2001 for a few seconds he said :What the frick? Why does it look worse the the one from the N64? It's literally just the same game over but now it looks worse. It's the same shit over and over"
He loved OOT but he always criticized it for just copy pasting a bunch of thing from Link to the Past. Back in 2000 he already noticed that they keep reusing ideas kek.
Here u go gays
>SS that high
>ALttP that low
>WW and TotK not being in B
What interesting taste. Maybe it IS the Zelda teams goal to continuously divide the fanbase.
>original plan for Wind Waker was for Link to use a theremin instead of a conductor’s wand
bro what the actual hell
honestly that sounds way more interesting but at the saame time
I don't think it would work in anything but a spooky zelda
which I kinda wish they did
majoras mask being a one and done sucks and twilight princess is just boring and drab
Conducting the direction of the wind with an orchestral baton is far more thematically congruent and feels slightly correct in terms of myth
Wind Theremin rhymes, it's better
Or I think it does, I've never heard of a theremin before
Twilight Princess was originally called Twilight Vuvuzela and BOTW was meant to revolve around Link playing a kazoo with his ass but Miyamoto cringed and said no.
I spent 3 hours trying to spawn the big poe near the grey boulder between the ranch a kokiri fores in vain. It completely soured my experience and I only have Ganon's castle left to beat.
Wind Waker was always frickin GAY. They back pedaled so much they had to release an entire new realistic Zelda to make up for it ON THE SAME CONSOLE
>shit opinion
>repugnant picture
That is Nintendo trying to rewrite history. Miyamoto famously turned and asked “why aren’t they clapping” when the unveiling happened and the space world auditorium was dead silent. He believed in this shit style just like everyone else did.
nobody liked windwaker when it came out, and by nobody I mean me
my Gamecube came with a disc that had both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask on it, along with a demo for this gay game. I had no reason to ever get this cartoony shit so I skipped it and got Twilight Princess
I thought Wind Waker was fine. They should switch things up more often. Another darker and grittier Zelda like Ocarina or Twilight Princess, then a more light-hearted one, then one somewhere in the middle, so on and so forth.
ToTK WAS their modern attempt at a "darker" Zelda.
Of course being headed by Fujibayashi it's only superficially dark with black monster goop and underground caverns
>Rushed game
>First sold on the shitty gamecube no one bought
>Out sold by the more successful tp
>Rereleased on the even shittier wii u even less people bought
>Never announced for rerelease on their most successful console ever
WW was never given a fair chance
>picrel
>"Wind Waker? Nah frick that just rush that shit homie, cut the dungeons crunch time chop chop"
As he should have. That game is garbage.
Feels like the more time passes, the more angrier and frustrated people feel about this series after Wind Waker. BotW created an even bigger divide than that game did, this IP is in a very weird place. I guess after all of this time, it truly is impossible to make a Zelda game that will make everyone happy.
Everyone loves lttp.
They got 3D Zelda right on their very first outing with OOT and then proceeded to just frick it up more and more each game by making progression more linear and restrictive. It's INSANE to me that Zelda has now gone to BOTH extremes of being extremely restrictive with too much guided structure and of being too open with absolutely no progression and no structure instead of pursuing the happy "structured non-linearity" middle ground that only a select 4 of its games inhabit.
It doesn't help that nobody is making a decent substitute! Last high-budget high-marketing Zelda clone that had a mix of overworld, sidequests, dungeons, and puzzles I can remember is Okami, a 17 year old game.
>An Overworld that's interesting to explore with lots of hidden secrets and unique features to explore
>A large number of full scale dungeons that are complex and long, with a balanced mix of navigation challenges, combat, puzzles, unique presentation and good boss. These should be support with a few small scale dungeons. The order of progression should have a decent amount of flexibility to allow for player expression and sequence breaking
>A good combat system that feels good, is fun, and delivers on the fantasy of being an adventurer
>Good plot, art and music to support the above.
I'd say the general problem is that the games from WW onward (arguably even MM) have been failing to deliver on one or more of these points, and that the consistency of failure has soured long term fans.
Shout out to the combat system which hasn't really evolved since the N64 era, and the series has gone from cutting edge as far as action-adventure (and the closely aligned arpg) games go to well behind the times.
Twilight Princess was the only game to expand upon the combat system, and I say that with hesitation because you lose the claymore weapon class ocarina and Majora had. The series actually REGRESSED, BOTW your weapons have no context sensitivity, you have the autocombo where you mash, the charge attack, and the jump strike and that's it. No lunges, no crouch stabs, no running attacks, no strafing swings, and no stick-sensitive inputs. It's boggling just how hard they dropped the ball, they make the weapons break right away so they hope you forget just how dull the combat system is.
>claymore weapon class
It was just the exact same weapon but with more range/damage in exchange for no shield, calling it a 'class' is insulting to the concept
Also it's wild that fricking Minish Cap somehow has a more fleshed out sword combat system
All the attacks in TP were superfluous. The problem is enemy design hasn't changed much. Enemy behavior, attacks and mechanics have been more or less static since OoT. Even in OoT, most of the attack variances weren't super useful aside from an oversight with the crouch stab.
Pretty much this. They just don't design complex enemies, nor do they really give you a reason to explore the system. Dark Link is one of the few enemies that's actually complex and forces you to really think about what move you're using. Or at least he would if his AI activated soon and he had the ability to response to Din's Fire the Megaton Hammer. Enemies Like Staflos, Gerudo Pirates, Dark Nuts (both WW and TP) are typically fast and/or hit hard and might present a challenge to a new player, but they don't actually tease out the combat system. BotW's Lynel are neat, it's a shame that across 2 games only one enemy functions the way they do.
SS is about the only exception to this rule, but it's still a slow combat system that's simplified from the previous eras.
Ultimately this comes down to Nintendo's view of the series as being too afraid to actually push or challenge the player, especially since Aonuma took the helm.
This just proves that I am smarter than Shigeru Miyamoto, the legendary genius game designer
Imagine not loving Wind Kino since the moment you first saw it
wind waker 2 never ever
Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks were WW2 and WW3, you ungrateful gay
Who cares? LTTP was the last good Zelda game.
Art style was the only thing it did right.
indeed wind waker was cringepilled and im tired of pretending it isnt
>ITT moronic nugays pretend to hate Wind Waker and Twilight Princess
people actually play zelda games?
I started with LA on Gameboy and I thought WW and TP were clear steps down in quality from ALttP, OoT and Majoras. Just because you may love them doesn't change that fact and people will point out how flawed they are.
What's a Zelda?
A very overrated series that rarely lives up to the hype.
>miyamoto is based and everyone else is cringe
not surprised
For me, it's Agitha
>Miyamoto Apparently ‘Cringed’ When First Shown Wind Waker’s Art Style
That's literally the most normal reaction to have when you see WW for the first time especially back then. What zoomers nowadays don't realize is that we all hated the look of WW when we first saw it. It looked like Zelda for fricking babies. That chibi cutsey look was not something we associated with the franchise and seemed like a regression coming off of the N64 games. I still think the character designs are a bit gay even if the overall art style and graphics have technically aged better than some of the older games.
Which is interesting considering for much of his earlier existence, Link was a pantsless fruit with a funny nose.
That's not the same thing at all. It's like comparing old Disney to moe anime.
lol this. there was no other way to react other than “what the frick?” and then it either growing on you or you hating it.
This entire thread is moronation and b8. You are all little children arguing over what barbie doll is the best one. None of you probably played a Zelda game either.
>A theremin
holy fricking KEK Aonuma is a fricking hack! holy shitting balls what a homosexual
theremin too scary :s