SWG 2, with true sandbox and area deformation with your land claim boundary.
Also force the jedigays to go through that stupid esoteric holocron hunt again, as well as bringing back permadeath for jedi.
>ashes of creation
Do you think characters will have a diverse and deep enough selection of abilities? What makes a character unique? Can you have more than ~15 abilities at a time? It has DPS, tanks, and healers.
It wasn't a figure of speech when I was referring to the majority of players as morons. And the morons also spend more money on average because of their poor impulse control. Something about the grind of making numbers go up stimulates the moron, don't ask me how it works.
>It wasn't a figure of speech when I was referring to the majority of players as morons.
That's stupid. If you're in any position of authority, you have no right to categorize any demographic, that vastly surpasses AI in strategy, intensity, and thus fun, as such.
>And the morons also spend more money on average because of their poor impulse control.
People who have a lot of money spend a lot of money (often). You should appeal to everybody because the rich want to be where everybody else is. WoW has the record of 12M "subscribers" (including Oriental time-card users), which has made it memorable and popular enough to still be played.
>Something about the grind of making numbers go up stimulates the moron, don't ask me how it works.
Perfect games are fun and advertisable.
Stop designing for endgame and the problem fixes itself. Runescape lived for a long time with zero endgame because levelling was very slow and power gains were linear. People generally just screwed around instead of powerlevelling, because there was no point.
>Stop designing for endgame and the problem fixes itself. Runescape lived for a long time with zero endgame because levelling was very slow and power gains were linear.
The problem is that this isn't very dynamic or fun. A 3D game has players wanting max combat accessibility and economic roles efficiency.
>progressing through the game
You don't need a game-over state to have players A). enjoying progression (and loss -- betting a ship in EVE is the most adrenergic gameplay I've experienced); B). completing stories.
What are you actually suggesting is the relevance of leveling? Do you think players should enjoy watching numbers going up instead of going and having near instant accessibility to "end game" in MOBAs?
It wasn't a figure of speech when I was referring to the majority of players as morons. And the morons also spend more money on average because of their poor impulse control. Something about the grind of making numbers go up stimulates the moron, don't ask me how it works.
Stop designing for endgame and the problem fixes itself. Runescape lived for a long time with zero endgame because levelling was very slow and power gains were linear. People generally just screwed around instead of powerlevelling, because there was no point.
Skills and feats trained through trainers, classless, skills and feats leveled through use, limited amount of lives per character that are difficult to get back if at all.
Yeah, the genre needs innovation, its very stagnant and its just a feedback loop of daily chores instead of engaging gameplay. The most fun I get in ff14 is looking at my braindead party members and laughing as they stand in the fire and die for the 3rd time in a row
the big games like ff14 all ignored the point of massively multiplayer though. if you're just going to do some pve co-op with 5-10 people the whole thing is dumb
games that are about player interaction, players making their own settlements and warring with other player groups and stuff did happen, they just don't get played or talked about. most people think mmo is gay shit like wow, where you aren't really doing anything mmo at all
I agree entirely. Ff14 isn't a good game but I do like the class designs and some of the setting, mostly nostalgia for FF settings like it ala ff12, only reason im playing really.
Nobody talks to eachother or interacts unless its to ERP in Limsa, and even then its dead quiet.
guildwars 1 >you can reach max level in a day >but you will still be trash because you don't have enough skills or enough knowledge to use them in proper combinations with your dual class >same applies to pvp >additionally the pve monsters still get much, MUCH stronger even after you reached the cap >technically the whole game is endgame since you can do hard mode for every mission, dungeon, explorable area, and challenge so even the noob content has longevity and contributes to the games length for veterans
The MMO genre was created for a culture that no longer exists. Back then, interacting with large amounts of people on the Internet was still a novelty. It was exciting enough that it was the entire gameplay model for early MMOs; They were just chatrooms, the hundreds of hours of camping mob spawns for exp was just an excuse for the players to interact with each other. That might have been a successful business model in the early days of the Internet, but in modern times where the quality of the average Internet user has dropped dramatically, and the novelty of "Massively Multiplayer" has long since worn off, these games are left with nothing. Nothing but number slurping addicts playing the same "games" they've been playing for the past 10 years. Games that offer nothing but making numbers go up.
In order for an MMO to be a truly good game, it needs to offer actual gameplay. Something fulfilling, stimulating, something that doesn't entirely rely on the presence of others but can still benefit from being experienced in a world populated by other players. So far, the only MMO I've witnessed that accomplishes this is RuneScape. Of course the hundreds of hours of grinding are there for any addicts that are looking for a fix, but the grinding is only secondary to experiencing the game's quests (which is still secondary to interacting with players, but as I mentioned earlier, that age has passed). On top of the usual MMO grinding experience that makes up the entirety of other MMOs, RuneScape also offers a plethora of challenging, well-written, rewarding quests akin to old-school Point & Click Adventure games that take full advantage of the large-scale MMO world they were made for. None of that "Kill X, Collect Y, Deliver to Z" bullshit. Even if the game died tomorrow and you were the only one playing it, you would still have a good time. That's what MMORPGs need to do to remain relevant: prioritize the RPG over the MMO.
When hear the words fulfilling or stimulating gameplay I don't think about point and click adventure games where the goal is to read tons of dialogue and do slide puzzles.
That's fair enough, point & clicks are a niche genre. But for people who do enjoy that style of gameplay, most of RuneScape's quests are very high quality in terms of: >Making puzzles difficult but comprehensible >Making you use "universal tools" in an MMO world (i.e. you have to think to bring rope or a hammer in case you might need them. There's usually no "video game" indication that you might need them like a rope spawn in the same room as the obstacle, you have to use critical thinking to determine when one is needed.) >Quality writing (i.e. witty tongue-in-cheek writing, not Marvel's quips or Sony's 'super srs' sad boy writing) >Offering substantial, often game-changing rewards (entirely new styles of combat, areas of the map, modes of transportation, gear upgrades)
if most of the interaction with "massive" numbers of players is just chat channels in a no-gameplay area then you aren't doing massively multiplayer. I don't know lots of mmos but I'm an evegay
Yeah, there is a big distinction between the "active interaction" that you prefer and the "passive interaction" of most MMOs today. But at the end of the day you're still in a game world with a large amount of other people. Would you classify MUDs, the text-based precursor to MMOs, as active or passive interaction?
>Would you classify MUDs, the text-based precursor to MMOs, as active or passive interaction?
no idea mate I never looked into them, but one way I look at it with a lot of these games like wow is how easy would it be for the game to just be something like diablo instead. if all you're doing is running through prepared pve with a handful of friends and some numbers go up, there's no need to have it be on a big server with a bunch of furry erp and a subscription and shit
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, instanced gameplay is a point of contention in "newer" MMOs like WoW and FFXIV. Their direct inspiration, Everquest, did have dungeons and raids, but they were all open world, other groups could come in and frick your shit up while you were doing them. Though the average MMO player never thought highly of PvP even back then: the top guilds in the game got together to organize timeslots so that they could all take turns tackling the raids without clashing with each other. That's why when one of Everquest's top players Tigole (aka Jeff Kaplan) was hired to help make WoW they added instances, which does detract from the MMO experience.
Wow you are a fricking waste of oxygen all those words to shill Runescape a game i was smart enough to stop playing at age 11
Well let's hear your choice then. Out of every MMO ever made, which is the closest to your ideal vision of an MMO and why?
2 years ago
Anonymous
kek, so mmos were killed by mmo players
2 years ago
Anonymous
Unironically yes. Everyone that wanted to play a good game stopped playing MMOs, leaving only the people who were addicted to numbers. And because these types of people were the core playerbase, the games started to change to satisfy them and prey on them. Limiting how much you can grind per week, abysmal drop rates, an endless treadmill of farming dozens of hours to obtain and upgrade gear only to throw it away when the next update comes out, this is what MMO means to these people.
Meh of all the ones i played FF14 is the only one i still play. Lots of content variety, from mindless to engaging all in some way interactive with other players. I don't play on NA servers so no trannies, never even seen an ERPer just weird furries. I play with friends from real life so i don't really need to worry about quality of players but we had to recruit some Randoms for raids and only 1 of them we had to drop. Rest are pretty cool fellas.
I played FFXIV to about level 55, it wasn't for me but I can see why some people enjoy it. The dress-up was nice, the world looked nice, the dungeons/bosses were all laughably easy but the bosses were choreographed well, sidequests were fricking abysmal to the point where people would look at me with confusion when I told them I did every single one.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah i have an autistic friend who does every single side quest as well. He is just starting shadowbringers (level 80) after 2 years while i have been maxed for almost a year now. The side quests are there really so you can level more than 1 class. The game marks side quests that unlock any kind of new content for you, and i can count on 1 hand the amount i actually did that don't unlock anything. All the main story dungeons and bosses are easy but you'd be surprised how some people find a way to make them difficult. The actual difficult content is savage raids / ultimates and if you don't have a group of 7 consistent people you will not find getting trolled by morons in party finder fun. WoW players absolutely fricking despise this game aswell because they proved you can take the exact formula of wow but actually make it fun.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I did appreciate that they marked any sidequests that actually give you things, but coming from RuneScape quest quality is still a big metric for me even though I know all the other MMOs just use them as filler. I was also told that dungeons and bosses get harder versions later on but the game didn't hold my attention long enough to get me there. I had also recently unlocked the rep grind for the monster races and that grind went farther than the extent of my autism. I ended up just fricking around in the casino and doing all of the card game battles to get enough coins for the cactuar mount until I got bored of that and stopped playing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Beast tribes defeated Do every sidequest autism
You do like 3 quests a day for a couple weeks max...
If you got to level 55 there's all the ARR (2.0 / 1-50) hard content you can do you may have just missed it. Level 50 has Binding coils of Bahamut which are some fricking hard raids to this day. That and the extreme versions of all the primals which i enjoyed the couple i actually did at 50.
The actual good side content I've found is definitely not side quests, it's housing, crafting and gathering. All 3 have qol purposes and can make money, but for me it's just the sheer amount of different stuff there actually is to make. Every crafter has a heap of furniture they can make for one of the best housing systems I've ever seen rivalled literally only by 3d modelling programs.
If quest quality is a big metric i think RuneScape is genuinely the only mmo that can give you ADV game level quests. Despite my shitting on it earlier the quests are good. Actually engaging compared to the rest of the game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Beast tribes defeated Do every sidequest autism
It wasn't so much the quests themselves that burnt me out (though having to swap out for the beast tribe crafting gear for every faction for every day was a pain in the ass), the time gating was what really did me in. RuneScape doesn't operate on timegating, it instead has an array of activities that require different amounts of concentration and focus. You can choose to do the low input, easy grinding methods that offer slower exp rates, or you can do the more intensive stuff that offers more exp but requires constant attention and input.
>If you got to level 55 there's all the ARR (2.0 / 1-50) hard content you can do you may have just missed it
Maybe it was 45 or maybe I was just behind in the main story for my level. Last I remember I made it to the second snow area, after they had just revealed Ultimate Weapon and we were preparing to infiltrate a base or some shit.
I did enjoy crafting and did a decent amount of that, though I could see how it could get really autistic later down the line with gathering/crafting rates. I didn't bother with housing at all because I was playing the free trial (no guild) and from what I was told the housing market was completely locked down even if I did manage to become not poor enough to buy a house. An MMO that I really liked the housing in was ESO, a lot of rare furniture to get your hands on and show off, and the freedom of object placement allowed you to make obstacle courses and shit which I loved doing in Free Realms as a little kid. I was in a guild in ESO that would have obstacle course events with prizes and everything.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Time gating is barely a thing in FFXIV. There's a weekly reset for a few things but you could finish the entire story in one sitting if you really wanted. In other MMOs it is ALOT worse. The beast tribes are basically there to be your daily quests, something to do every day for a while to eventually get something. Really all you'd get from these is new armor and mounts and it's never actually necessary.
Housing market entirely depends on your server but you can always get an apartment which are basically instanced in the housing areas. FF also has completely free object placement, with addons i've seen people use beds to clip through walls and then make entire stages in the black void outside the house. Haven't seen any courses before but i guess i've never really looked. The housing community especially the Japs on twitter go incredibly hard and I've seen some builds that look better than in game areas.
The actual story quality jumps alot from 50 - 51 as the first expac starts and vanilla which has been basically gutted over the past 10 years ends. They've made a real effort to make it alot less shit for new players so i'd give it another try if you ever feel like it. I felt like i was forcing myself through it in the beginning and i did actually quit for a long time at one point, but i eventually got pretty hooked.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Meh of all the ones i played FF14 is the only one i still play. Lots of content variety, from mindless to engaging all in some way interactive with other players. I don't play on NA servers so no trannies, never even seen an ERPer just weird furries. I play with friends from real life so i don't really need to worry about quality of players but we had to recruit some Randoms for raids and only 1 of them we had to drop. Rest are pretty cool fellas.
if most of the interaction with "massive" numbers of players is just chat channels in a no-gameplay area then you aren't doing massively multiplayer. I don't know lots of mmos but I'm an evegay
All MMO players killed
All MMO devs killed
All money generated by MMOs burned
Stricken from historical record
Human race breathes collective sigh of relief
Dark Souls online. >plays like Souls/Elden Ring >exp(souls) are lost on death >open world with zones that have limited players in each one >world pvp based on covenants, reds are on the enemies side, blues get summoned to areas where reds/purples are attacking the other covenant members >The goal is to hunt enemies and bosses for souls and loot, you can join a red covenant and attempt kill players to steal their souls instead.
Gotta say OP, you're a huge homosexual and I don't agree with most of what you argue. However, I did put time into an MMO for a few years after searching through many of them since being younger and first playing Runescape in 2006. What MMO? TERA. I played from 2013 through 2015, and stopped some time in 2016. Its a pretty typical shitty Korean MMO, but the big draw for me was a game that made it feel much more fluid and skillful to play the typical MMO formula. There is very little challenge involved in tab target combat, and I think TERA did its best to change that with its combat feeling much closer to an action game. They didn't take away the typical amount of skills either, with classes usually filling their skill bar, and sometimes another. This alone was a big improvement on the formula for me. What I was looking for after TERA was a game with bigger scale and still retained that depth of combat, and it had seemed that Black Desert was gonna be that, until I played it and realized it was not at all what I was hoping for. Would the "perfect MMO" include action based combat?
They should make a tutorial area where you have to make a friend to proceed while lecturing the youth about ghosting people being socially frowned upon.
The reason MMOs died is because they started catering to the friendless solo gamer. And it turns out that puts you in direct competition with single player games, and an MMO can never hope to provide an equal gameplay experience to a single player game.
MMOs should focus on what makes them unique. A massive multiplayer world where a player can interact with hundreds or even thousands of players.
Dunno. I don’t have the answers >Tried WoW in 2005-2006 supposedly when it was “good”
It never really hooked me and the subscription model was a turn off. Getting that kind of money when you’re young was too hard. And yeah, good luck convincing my parents to pay for this. Yeah I probably could have took a sidejob to play it if I really wanted to, but in hindsight, seeing how it ruined people’s lives, I guess I’m glad I focused more on school at the time >Tried WoW in 2021
After finally getting a great job, I can now finally afford to play this game. Only to find out it was dogshit. Mythic+ and Raiding was too much of a high level barrier entry. Not to mention, you have to apply to a guild like a job application in order to be among serious players. You have to clear your schedule on certain days to raid, and if you frick up or someone else does, welp, gotta reschedule again for another day. Who honestly came up with this awful game design? They should be shot. Other than raiding and mythic+, I tried to find other fun stuff I could do, but there’s literally nothing. Even farming old mounts seems like a giant chore. So I quit after finishing Castle Nathria raid once or twice. >Tried FFXIV
ARR sucked. Everyone knows that. But to be honest, a lot of the other expansions were really not that good either. I also quit during Stormblood because it was not holding my interest. Overall, the story is okay, but I can see why people would think its dumb for an entire mmo to focus on it. I read a lot of Visual Novels, and I feel like even FF has waaaay too much filler. They could easily cut out a lot of useless side characters. The high point of enjoyment for me was Heavensward and the climax of Shadowbringers. Other than that, I always felt like I was going through the motions mostly. For end game, I think savage raiding is basically the same process as WoW. You have to apply to a “static” group and it’s basically like a job where you raid on specific days.
Create an MMO for AI players. No real players can access the game and all you can do is observe what each AI "player" is doing. Cycle through all the bots and see how many are trying to level up, and which bots are stuck emoting in the corner of the map.
SWG 2, with true sandbox and area deformation with your land claim boundary.
Also force the jedigays to go through that stupid esoteric holocron hunt again, as well as bringing back permadeath for jedi.
>area deformation
Specifically?
>Also force the jedigays to go through that stupid esoteric holocron hunt again
Why?
>permadeath for jedi
Leveling is stupid.
A hundred hour tutorial is a little much, and players should all be ready for full gameplay when they start.
I'll just wait for ashes of creation
maybe in 5 years
after that I'm done and will never give a shit about the genre
>ashes of creation
Do you think characters will have a diverse and deep enough selection of abilities? What makes a character unique? Can you have more than ~15 abilities at a time? It has DPS, tanks, and healers.
>It wasn't a figure of speech when I was referring to the majority of players as morons.
That's stupid. If you're in any position of authority, you have no right to categorize any demographic, that vastly surpasses AI in strategy, intensity, and thus fun, as such.
>And the morons also spend more money on average because of their poor impulse control.
People who have a lot of money spend a lot of money (often). You should appeal to everybody because the rich want to be where everybody else is. WoW has the record of 12M "subscribers" (including Oriental time-card users), which has made it memorable and popular enough to still be played.
>Something about the grind of making numbers go up stimulates the moron, don't ask me how it works.
Perfect games are fun and advertisable.
>Stop designing for endgame and the problem fixes itself. Runescape lived for a long time with zero endgame because levelling was very slow and power gains were linear.
The problem is that this isn't very dynamic or fun. A 3D game has players wanting max combat accessibility and economic roles efficiency.
mercy kill it
stop making games with leveling
But morons won't be able to feel like they're progressing through the game if they don't see numbers going up. It would be bad for player retention.
>progressing through the game
You don't need a game-over state to have players A). enjoying progression (and loss -- betting a ship in EVE is the most adrenergic gameplay I've experienced); B). completing stories.
What are you actually suggesting is the relevance of leveling? Do you think players should enjoy watching numbers going up instead of going and having near instant accessibility to "end game" in MOBAs?
It wasn't a figure of speech when I was referring to the majority of players as morons. And the morons also spend more money on average because of their poor impulse control. Something about the grind of making numbers go up stimulates the moron, don't ask me how it works.
I don't even know how people still play any mmo after the first 2 hours, how can a genre be so boring and time consuming
have you tried all of them
nope I just watch streamers and donate often
some of them are different
purge all zoomers from the face of the earth = mmos fixed
>he thinks gen z ruined MMOs
delusional, find a better scapegoat
>This is the most important genre.
>good morning sir, you pay me, i deliever items, very good deal
Stop designing for endgame and the problem fixes itself. Runescape lived for a long time with zero endgame because levelling was very slow and power gains were linear. People generally just screwed around instead of powerlevelling, because there was no point.
Skills and feats trained through trainers, classless, skills and feats leveled through use, limited amount of lives per character that are difficult to get back if at all.
Open world pvp, drop items on death.
I think the main thing for mmo design is to cut loose the homosexualry everyone is used to. "gear", "leveling", "raids". all that shit is trash
Yeah, the genre needs innovation, its very stagnant and its just a feedback loop of daily chores instead of engaging gameplay. The most fun I get in ff14 is looking at my braindead party members and laughing as they stand in the fire and die for the 3rd time in a row
the big games like ff14 all ignored the point of massively multiplayer though. if you're just going to do some pve co-op with 5-10 people the whole thing is dumb
games that are about player interaction, players making their own settlements and warring with other player groups and stuff did happen, they just don't get played or talked about. most people think mmo is gay shit like wow, where you aren't really doing anything mmo at all
I agree entirely. Ff14 isn't a good game but I do like the class designs and some of the setting, mostly nostalgia for FF settings like it ala ff12, only reason im playing really.
Nobody talks to eachother or interacts unless its to ERP in Limsa, and even then its dead quiet.
I don't understand why they don't ban this moron
guildwars 1
>you can reach max level in a day
>but you will still be trash because you don't have enough skills or enough knowledge to use them in proper combinations with your dual class
>same applies to pvp
>additionally the pve monsters still get much, MUCH stronger even after you reached the cap
>technically the whole game is endgame since you can do hard mode for every mission, dungeon, explorable area, and challenge so even the noob content has longevity and contributes to the games length for veterans
The MMO genre was created for a culture that no longer exists. Back then, interacting with large amounts of people on the Internet was still a novelty. It was exciting enough that it was the entire gameplay model for early MMOs; They were just chatrooms, the hundreds of hours of camping mob spawns for exp was just an excuse for the players to interact with each other. That might have been a successful business model in the early days of the Internet, but in modern times where the quality of the average Internet user has dropped dramatically, and the novelty of "Massively Multiplayer" has long since worn off, these games are left with nothing. Nothing but number slurping addicts playing the same "games" they've been playing for the past 10 years. Games that offer nothing but making numbers go up.
In order for an MMO to be a truly good game, it needs to offer actual gameplay. Something fulfilling, stimulating, something that doesn't entirely rely on the presence of others but can still benefit from being experienced in a world populated by other players. So far, the only MMO I've witnessed that accomplishes this is RuneScape. Of course the hundreds of hours of grinding are there for any addicts that are looking for a fix, but the grinding is only secondary to experiencing the game's quests (which is still secondary to interacting with players, but as I mentioned earlier, that age has passed). On top of the usual MMO grinding experience that makes up the entirety of other MMOs, RuneScape also offers a plethora of challenging, well-written, rewarding quests akin to old-school Point & Click Adventure games that take full advantage of the large-scale MMO world they were made for. None of that "Kill X, Collect Y, Deliver to Z" bullshit. Even if the game died tomorrow and you were the only one playing it, you would still have a good time. That's what MMORPGs need to do to remain relevant: prioritize the RPG over the MMO.
the games you're talking about were mmo in name only though
What games are "true" MMOs and which ones aren't?
Can you explain why RuneScape's quests aren't fulfilling or stimulating? Have you experienced them?
When hear the words fulfilling or stimulating gameplay I don't think about point and click adventure games where the goal is to read tons of dialogue and do slide puzzles.
That's fair enough, point & clicks are a niche genre. But for people who do enjoy that style of gameplay, most of RuneScape's quests are very high quality in terms of:
>Making puzzles difficult but comprehensible
>Making you use "universal tools" in an MMO world (i.e. you have to think to bring rope or a hammer in case you might need them. There's usually no "video game" indication that you might need them like a rope spawn in the same room as the obstacle, you have to use critical thinking to determine when one is needed.)
>Quality writing (i.e. witty tongue-in-cheek writing, not Marvel's quips or Sony's 'super srs' sad boy writing)
>Offering substantial, often game-changing rewards (entirely new styles of combat, areas of the map, modes of transportation, gear upgrades)
Yeah, there is a big distinction between the "active interaction" that you prefer and the "passive interaction" of most MMOs today. But at the end of the day you're still in a game world with a large amount of other people. Would you classify MUDs, the text-based precursor to MMOs, as active or passive interaction?
>Would you classify MUDs, the text-based precursor to MMOs, as active or passive interaction?
no idea mate I never looked into them, but one way I look at it with a lot of these games like wow is how easy would it be for the game to just be something like diablo instead. if all you're doing is running through prepared pve with a handful of friends and some numbers go up, there's no need to have it be on a big server with a bunch of furry erp and a subscription and shit
Yeah, instanced gameplay is a point of contention in "newer" MMOs like WoW and FFXIV. Their direct inspiration, Everquest, did have dungeons and raids, but they were all open world, other groups could come in and frick your shit up while you were doing them. Though the average MMO player never thought highly of PvP even back then: the top guilds in the game got together to organize timeslots so that they could all take turns tackling the raids without clashing with each other. That's why when one of Everquest's top players Tigole (aka Jeff Kaplan) was hired to help make WoW they added instances, which does detract from the MMO experience.
Well let's hear your choice then. Out of every MMO ever made, which is the closest to your ideal vision of an MMO and why?
kek, so mmos were killed by mmo players
Unironically yes. Everyone that wanted to play a good game stopped playing MMOs, leaving only the people who were addicted to numbers. And because these types of people were the core playerbase, the games started to change to satisfy them and prey on them. Limiting how much you can grind per week, abysmal drop rates, an endless treadmill of farming dozens of hours to obtain and upgrade gear only to throw it away when the next update comes out, this is what MMO means to these people.
I played FFXIV to about level 55, it wasn't for me but I can see why some people enjoy it. The dress-up was nice, the world looked nice, the dungeons/bosses were all laughably easy but the bosses were choreographed well, sidequests were fricking abysmal to the point where people would look at me with confusion when I told them I did every single one.
Yeah i have an autistic friend who does every single side quest as well. He is just starting shadowbringers (level 80) after 2 years while i have been maxed for almost a year now. The side quests are there really so you can level more than 1 class. The game marks side quests that unlock any kind of new content for you, and i can count on 1 hand the amount i actually did that don't unlock anything. All the main story dungeons and bosses are easy but you'd be surprised how some people find a way to make them difficult. The actual difficult content is savage raids / ultimates and if you don't have a group of 7 consistent people you will not find getting trolled by morons in party finder fun. WoW players absolutely fricking despise this game aswell because they proved you can take the exact formula of wow but actually make it fun.
I did appreciate that they marked any sidequests that actually give you things, but coming from RuneScape quest quality is still a big metric for me even though I know all the other MMOs just use them as filler. I was also told that dungeons and bosses get harder versions later on but the game didn't hold my attention long enough to get me there. I had also recently unlocked the rep grind for the monster races and that grind went farther than the extent of my autism. I ended up just fricking around in the casino and doing all of the card game battles to get enough coins for the cactuar mount until I got bored of that and stopped playing.
>Beast tribes defeated Do every sidequest autism
You do like 3 quests a day for a couple weeks max...
If you got to level 55 there's all the ARR (2.0 / 1-50) hard content you can do you may have just missed it. Level 50 has Binding coils of Bahamut which are some fricking hard raids to this day. That and the extreme versions of all the primals which i enjoyed the couple i actually did at 50.
The actual good side content I've found is definitely not side quests, it's housing, crafting and gathering. All 3 have qol purposes and can make money, but for me it's just the sheer amount of different stuff there actually is to make. Every crafter has a heap of furniture they can make for one of the best housing systems I've ever seen rivalled literally only by 3d modelling programs.
If quest quality is a big metric i think RuneScape is genuinely the only mmo that can give you ADV game level quests. Despite my shitting on it earlier the quests are good. Actually engaging compared to the rest of the game.
>Beast tribes defeated Do every sidequest autism
It wasn't so much the quests themselves that burnt me out (though having to swap out for the beast tribe crafting gear for every faction for every day was a pain in the ass), the time gating was what really did me in. RuneScape doesn't operate on timegating, it instead has an array of activities that require different amounts of concentration and focus. You can choose to do the low input, easy grinding methods that offer slower exp rates, or you can do the more intensive stuff that offers more exp but requires constant attention and input.
>If you got to level 55 there's all the ARR (2.0 / 1-50) hard content you can do you may have just missed it
Maybe it was 45 or maybe I was just behind in the main story for my level. Last I remember I made it to the second snow area, after they had just revealed Ultimate Weapon and we were preparing to infiltrate a base or some shit.
I did enjoy crafting and did a decent amount of that, though I could see how it could get really autistic later down the line with gathering/crafting rates. I didn't bother with housing at all because I was playing the free trial (no guild) and from what I was told the housing market was completely locked down even if I did manage to become not poor enough to buy a house. An MMO that I really liked the housing in was ESO, a lot of rare furniture to get your hands on and show off, and the freedom of object placement allowed you to make obstacle courses and shit which I loved doing in Free Realms as a little kid. I was in a guild in ESO that would have obstacle course events with prizes and everything.
Time gating is barely a thing in FFXIV. There's a weekly reset for a few things but you could finish the entire story in one sitting if you really wanted. In other MMOs it is ALOT worse. The beast tribes are basically there to be your daily quests, something to do every day for a while to eventually get something. Really all you'd get from these is new armor and mounts and it's never actually necessary.
Housing market entirely depends on your server but you can always get an apartment which are basically instanced in the housing areas. FF also has completely free object placement, with addons i've seen people use beds to clip through walls and then make entire stages in the black void outside the house. Haven't seen any courses before but i guess i've never really looked. The housing community especially the Japs on twitter go incredibly hard and I've seen some builds that look better than in game areas.
The actual story quality jumps alot from 50 - 51 as the first expac starts and vanilla which has been basically gutted over the past 10 years ends. They've made a real effort to make it alot less shit for new players so i'd give it another try if you ever feel like it. I felt like i was forcing myself through it in the beginning and i did actually quit for a long time at one point, but i eventually got pretty hooked.
Meh of all the ones i played FF14 is the only one i still play. Lots of content variety, from mindless to engaging all in some way interactive with other players. I don't play on NA servers so no trannies, never even seen an ERPer just weird furries. I play with friends from real life so i don't really need to worry about quality of players but we had to recruit some Randoms for raids and only 1 of them we had to drop. Rest are pretty cool fellas.
if most of the interaction with "massive" numbers of players is just chat channels in a no-gameplay area then you aren't doing massively multiplayer. I don't know lots of mmos but I'm an evegay
>In order for an MMO to be a truly good game, it needs to offer actual gameplay. Something fulfilling, stimulating
>Runescape
Wow you are a fricking waste of oxygen all those words to shill Runescape a game i was smart enough to stop playing at age 11
>i was smart enough to stop playing at age 11
>not smart enough to leave Ganker
Your younger would slap you right now go back
MMOs are a trash-tier genre and I'm tired of pretending that they're not.
All MMO players killed
All MMO devs killed
All money generated by MMOs burned
Stricken from historical record
Human race breathes collective sigh of relief
Dark Souls online.
>plays like Souls/Elden Ring
>exp(souls) are lost on death
>open world with zones that have limited players in each one
>world pvp based on covenants, reds are on the enemies side, blues get summoned to areas where reds/purples are attacking the other covenant members
>The goal is to hunt enemies and bosses for souls and loot, you can join a red covenant and attempt kill players to steal their souls instead.
This but
>DaS2 rolls/stamina costs
>DaS3 tracking/weapon arts
>Bloodborne backstabs
Leveling unironically ruined mmos.
Gotta say OP, you're a huge homosexual and I don't agree with most of what you argue. However, I did put time into an MMO for a few years after searching through many of them since being younger and first playing Runescape in 2006. What MMO? TERA. I played from 2013 through 2015, and stopped some time in 2016. Its a pretty typical shitty Korean MMO, but the big draw for me was a game that made it feel much more fluid and skillful to play the typical MMO formula. There is very little challenge involved in tab target combat, and I think TERA did its best to change that with its combat feeling much closer to an action game. They didn't take away the typical amount of skills either, with classes usually filling their skill bar, and sometimes another. This alone was a big improvement on the formula for me. What I was looking for after TERA was a game with bigger scale and still retained that depth of combat, and it had seemed that Black Desert was gonna be that, until I played it and realized it was not at all what I was hoping for. Would the "perfect MMO" include action based combat?
They should make a tutorial area where you have to make a friend to proceed while lecturing the youth about ghosting people being socially frowned upon.
One of the very first quests in Toontown has you find someone to accept your friend request, but most people just immediately unfriend afterwards
How do I reeach these kiiids
mmos are only good if you can make money on them without botting
The reason MMOs died is because they started catering to the friendless solo gamer. And it turns out that puts you in direct competition with single player games, and an MMO can never hope to provide an equal gameplay experience to a single player game.
MMOs should focus on what makes them unique. A massive multiplayer world where a player can interact with hundreds or even thousands of players.
Dunno. I don’t have the answers
>Tried WoW in 2005-2006 supposedly when it was “good”
It never really hooked me and the subscription model was a turn off. Getting that kind of money when you’re young was too hard. And yeah, good luck convincing my parents to pay for this. Yeah I probably could have took a sidejob to play it if I really wanted to, but in hindsight, seeing how it ruined people’s lives, I guess I’m glad I focused more on school at the time
>Tried WoW in 2021
After finally getting a great job, I can now finally afford to play this game. Only to find out it was dogshit. Mythic+ and Raiding was too much of a high level barrier entry. Not to mention, you have to apply to a guild like a job application in order to be among serious players. You have to clear your schedule on certain days to raid, and if you frick up or someone else does, welp, gotta reschedule again for another day. Who honestly came up with this awful game design? They should be shot. Other than raiding and mythic+, I tried to find other fun stuff I could do, but there’s literally nothing. Even farming old mounts seems like a giant chore. So I quit after finishing Castle Nathria raid once or twice.
>Tried FFXIV
ARR sucked. Everyone knows that. But to be honest, a lot of the other expansions were really not that good either. I also quit during Stormblood because it was not holding my interest. Overall, the story is okay, but I can see why people would think its dumb for an entire mmo to focus on it. I read a lot of Visual Novels, and I feel like even FF has waaaay too much filler. They could easily cut out a lot of useless side characters. The high point of enjoyment for me was Heavensward and the climax of Shadowbringers. Other than that, I always felt like I was going through the motions mostly. For end game, I think savage raiding is basically the same process as WoW. You have to apply to a “static” group and it’s basically like a job where you raid on specific days.
Create an MMO for AI players. No real players can access the game and all you can do is observe what each AI "player" is doing. Cycle through all the bots and see how many are trying to level up, and which bots are stuck emoting in the corner of the map.