>Class trinity
not
>"I have a key to get us extra loot in zones Y and Z"
>"I'm paying [in-game currency] for a boost"
>"I'm one of the few people who responded to the call for help in this PvP convoy ambush"
>"I crafted an (EXPENSIVE) earring with some heals pre-loaded into it"
>"Your guild leader's dick pics say he's farming with me for now. Scram."
>"It's my wagon. Of course I'm coming along."
What happened to social or dynamic factors affecting player organization in MMOs?
Damn! I read "panty dynamics" and was wondering if that was some new kind of cloth physics.
Yeah, they get visibly wet if your character doesn't use the toilet often enough
>What happened to social or dynamic factors... in MMOs?
its been dissected to death
>communicating with lots of others online instantaneously is no longer novel
>players grow older, have other responsibilities
>players want to play other games
>players desire to achieve their ingame goals faster
>to these ends, players desire convenience features at the cost of interaction with others
other players are no longer other players that offer something valuable, theyre just "4 mandatory roadbump items that the game decides that i needs to enter the dungeon to collect my loot so i can be 2% stronger and move on"
this also happens when the developers can only focus on combat related activities. there is no nuance to combat, a zero sum game. you either win or lose, and therefore things live or die based on their (perceived) ability or inability to perform in those scenarios. constant times where a class or spec or skill is seen as "bad" because it isnt as strong as others will lead groups to decline well performing players who do better than worse players with a better one, and when the game has no way for a class or spec to express themselves outside of combat, and when classes become homogenized for convenience, there's no social reason for a player to pick something else and they become a (perceived) liability .
All you have to do is make it difficult to level up and travel around the world and you will get good party dynamics again. Even in older MMOs everyone wanted what was "meta" but you could only actually assemble a meta party once in a blue moon so people would experiment and try other interesting combinations.
The current MMO player culture is a direct result of making the games too convenient to play. If half the playerbase has every job leveled and everyone can zip across the planet in an instant, there is no longer a reason NOT to just use the meta solution every time.
astounding how it's so simple yet nobody seems to get it
thats definitely true. playing on an ff11 private server right now and while the discussion around it is all about meta trash, the reality is people just form groups and just go with it.
WoW added the Groupfinder. Everyone copied it like it's a core feature of MMOs.
Dofus doesn't have it. They HAD it but they removed it so everyone now uses the in-game global recruitment chat.
>Class trinity
Not a thing in Dofus
>What happened to social or dynamic factors
Too hard for modern casuals plus every game censors the living shit out of what you say. You can't talk with anyone, regardless if it's actually offensive or not without walking on eggshells.
>You can't talk with anyone, regardless if it's actually offensive or not without walking on eggshells.
What did Anon mean by this? What mmo doesn't let you just chat?
any mmo that has a ToS you dense motherfricker.
That just means you can't call people a Black person, not that you can't freely talk, you actually mouth breathing homosexual
>That just means you can't call people a Black person
In FF14 you also can't say anything that hurt other player's feefee's otherwise you get sent to the GM cuckbox and slapped on the wrist.
>t. got sent to the cuckbox for calling someone else a moron once since he was repeatedly failing mechanics and making us wipe
In retrospect this butthole might have baited me into doing it and I fell hook, line and sinker.
Good, stop playing my game
don't come crying when you get suspended for some seemingly inoffensive shit some thin-skinned troony didn't agree with
I won't because I'm not a seething homosexual lmao
that's what they all say
>Played FFXIV for 2 years
>Never reported even once
>Chat in every random duty I do
My secret is being an adult with a normal brain.
Every time someone says they were reported/banned in XIV for "nothing" and then reveal what actually happened, it turns out that they just have an extremely warped and Ganker poisoned idea of what "nothing" is.
100% true.
Every conversation I ever had was like:
>Wow we're doing this really fast, lmao you guys have based damage
>Ooph, rough run. Anyone have any ideas on how to get this boss down?
>Hey man, can I ask a question? I've been fishing here but can't find X. Any idea what bait I need?
>Sick fashion, dude. Where'd you find that helmet?
I can't imagine why you'd ever speak in a way that'd get you banned. You almost have to be TRYING to get reported.
you type like an absolute redditard
>redditard
I'm not a teenager, what does this mean? Just that I use complete sentences? Yeah, the internet was different in 1998, before you were born
I'd rather just not communicate at all than break my neck wearing seven masks of someone I'm not. Must suck being you, pretending to be an entirely different person just so you can fit in into a place that doesn't even want you in the first place.
>Act like an adult? You must be pretending to be a totally different person!!!
It gets easier, son.
It gets easier being someone you're not? Damn. What a sorry existence you must live.
Imagine having to pretend to not be moronic, couldn't be me
if needing to say Black person every 5 seconds is whats under the mask then you may just have autism. normal social interaction involves holding back the moments you want to call someone a piece of shit or doing it without calling them a moronic Black person homosexual. at worst not saying Black person constantly should be one single mask, and just being polite to strangers shouldn't be a mask at all.
>autism
NTA but am genuinely autistic and this is anti-autism behavior. I guarantee you I stress social situations so much more than normies that I'm hyper aware of "the rules" and how breaking them gets you absolutely turbo ostracized. I NEVER use the word Black person anywhere but this website
Fellow autism bro in the struggle, keep holding out. We're gonna make it.
as long as you dont use the no no words and dont break obvious rules like harassing people you dont like or telling trannies to have a nice day then you wont get banned. the main issue is that ff14 is just fricking shit in the first place.
NTA, but a friendly reminder once WoW dies XIV is going to take it's place and keep the genre stagnant.
>once WoW dies
there is no hope for MMOs going forward. if there is it will be genuinely decades from now but you get genuinely better experiences going back and playing older mmos on private servers for an authentic mmo community experience. wow is shit, ff14 is shit.
>I'd rather just not communicate at all than break my neck wearing seven masks of someone I'm not
... said anon, posting on the community that has championed faceted identity for 20 years
i got gm jailed for trade canceling a friend 1 time (once)
Too many people here seem to be unable to grasp the thought that not everywhere online has the same standards of etiquette as this site does. If they can't behave the same way elsewhere that they can here, they immediately get upset and blame censorship when in reality, it's a more of a basic courtesy issue.
Online interactions are all the more rewarding when you do finally come across a someone who doesn't mind you saying Black person or homosexual all the time though.
Between the ToS and how insane the modern west is, you really gotta be careful with what you say so you don't offend the dozen of minority/progressive groups. Even a slightly off-color joke like insinuating that whatever boss you're about to fight takes it up the ass ends with you getting a strike point and being ostracized from entire groups. Its like high school girl clique dynamics all over.
>insinuating that whatever boss you're about to fight takes it up the ass
Yeah, I guess I'm just not 12 anymore so I tend not to think about situations like this.
>What happened to social factors affecting player organization in MMOs?
people have centralized social media now, they don't need MMOs to use as group chats.
dicksord is a fricking menace, this much is true.
discord is fine.
it's a user issue, not a software issue.
i don't give a frick and that doesn't effect me in a single way.
my gaming groups mitigated from skype and mumble to discord and we all love it.
stop joining random public discords with 20,000+ people and calling everyone Black folk.
It's dead, MMOs aren't coming back. They have been casualized and homogenized into raidslop treadmills. Until WoW and XIV die, there will never be a return to form. Ashes of Creation is also a scam, don't bother. In just the past few days, I had been arguing with people suffering actual brainrot, so I'm leaving it at this.
>Ashes of Creation is also a scam,
These feels like a lie. Everything I've read has sounded turbobased
>Pre order packs
>Boasting they worked on the bait and switch EQN and Landmark
>Censorship on forums and social media platforms when faced with any criticism
I'm sure your a paid shill on damage control.
>your a paid shill
Genuinely just an oldgay who's read small bits here and there. I've no idea what any of those things mean, except for """censorship on forums""" but morons always claim that because they got banned for telling Black personBlack personBlack person and then wonder why people don't tolerate them.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Pre-order_pack_history
>Cosmetics
Non-issue. Thank capitalism, but you can't just make an experience for the sake of it. It has to make money. I hear you, I hate microtransactions too, but if it's not pay 2 win, it really doesn't matter
200$+ per, you fricking paid shill. Go back into the hole you crawled out of.
Ashes of Schemeation is the Scam Citizen of MMOs. Again, tons of censorship and damage control on social media platforms whenever anyone criticizes it or anything about it.
>200$
For cosmetics. Who gives a shit? Don't buy them. They're not even part of the game. Why does something you don't have to engage with upset you?
yeah i'm another anon that had a casual interest in it but you just killed it for me, i dont know what i expected since the lead guy always talks about how much he loves asiatic mmos
jesus christ this is almost scam citizen level
holy frick, i knew they were scummy for the 500$ alpha, but what in the living frick is this?
Ashes of Creation took almost 10 years to reach "Alpha Two" and they're not even there yet. It's mismanaged and developed by pseud midwits pretending to be game devs.
normies got onto the internet and ruined it and now you can't have any kind of disagreement with another person without them trying to snitch on you to get your money stolen
God I wish MMOs had this degree of diversity. FFXIV -almost- committed by having craft classes be their own actual classes, but then balked by having the whole game be a story where you have to play a combat class anyway.
>Fighters - kill monsters, protect other players
>Traders - move supplies and establish services
>Crafters - convert raw materials into goods or structures that other players use
>Explorers - map areas, track movements, find treasure
These are the roles players should be filling in an MMO and they should all be equally supported.
>Explorer
I'd be all for that.
>Move speed and jump height buffs
>BotW style climbing
>Make maps with rare spawn locations and timers to trade to other players
>Entrances to dungeon type areas that only explorers can reach that give them access to vantage points that allow them to see the whole dungeon layout at once
The possibilities are endless and it would be based as frick
People should just commit to that shit
Imagine having only Traders able to actually trade shit between players. No form of selling to npcs either, you just have to sell to Trader players who set up their own shops. No way to buy a single item in the game if not for traders selling them.
Also make it possible to kill traders and steal their items.
That's how EVE Online works. Almost everything is bought, sold and crafted by players.
>Imagine having only Traders able to actually trade shit between players. No form of selling to NPCs either, you just have to sell to Trader players who set up their own shops.
This is shit. Why would the game require me to go through a middle man for even basic transactions? Traders should move goods, with supporting game infrastucture in the form of a stock/loan market.
sounds gay
im glad u arent designin shit
>Trader
>Your drive a cart and follow behind your cleric and warrior party members
>They kill monsters and get worn out
>They resupply their casting materials and use medicine from your stores in between encounters
>You can store all the loot they can't carry so your party makes off with ALL the treasure
Sign me the FRICK up
Non-combat roles are kino.
only works if
>consumables the traders sell is locked behind level
>has to play the stocks in pass time to sell items for gold
>hunt certain monsters for materials to make certain consumable for other encounters.
but yea, full and pure bliss.
I just wanna be a party member like any other, only I don't want to participate in combat directly. I want my donkey drawn cart to be a mobile base of operations allowing my bodyguard players to resupply, rest up, use work tables to craft mid-dungeon, and store loot we'd otherwise have to leave behind. Give me some mobility restrictions (cart can't jump over that ravine, for instance).
>LF1M for Sentiles Gorge. Need Trader with a mid size carriage. Please have at least two donkies to make it throw the swamp areas
Kino like we've never seen
On paper this sounds great but the existing MMO climate would never allow for this
>your party phases out and you get nasty tells saying you stole everything
>no one talks or wants to communicate so they end up just kicking you from the group because you aren't doing DPS or some other metagay metric they can track
It would require a fundamentally different MMO structure.
>Players have RE4 style attache case inventory severely limiting the loot they can carry
>You have to trust the players you're with, so actually make friends and reputation matters
>This means matchmaking systems in their entirety on non-viable. Form parties in town and set out together.
>Dungeons must be able to be completed in multiple ways:
> 5 combatants kill everything before they die
> 4 combatants and a trader move more slowly, but get to resupply between fights and carry more loot
> 3 combatats, 1 trader, and 1 explorer get to avoid encounters due to explorer warning the group of enemy movements and only bring home the highest priority loot
It would look a LOT different than WoW and FFXIV but it could be done.
>Learn how to woodwork. Make weapons and furniture
>Become successful and stop selling your wares behind the tavern and open a permanent store instead
>Sign contracts with raw material suppliers: X money is withdrawn from your account, Y materials withdrawn from their stores, every Z days. Fines if you can't meet the agreed amount.
>Sign contracts with combat guilds for the same thing.
>Employ other players to make goods. Pay them a salary. Fines if they don't meet quota.
>Open up new store locations everywhere from major cities to frontier towns
>Become world wide monopoly billionaire
BASED! BASED!
>Play with your brother
>You're both fighter archetype. You're a swordsman and he's a rogue
>Tomboy explorer gf
>Protect your guild of trader waifus
>Best bro is a shit talking, monopoly running, black marker crafter
Right into my fricking veins
- move supplies and establish services
- convert raw materials into goods or structures that other players use
- map areas, track movements, find treasure
All bots. Enjoy competing on the market with someone running the game 10 times at once
Fighters would be bots as well, between goldfarm bots that already exist in current mmos, to scripts and addons that play the game for you, even in high end raid content. RMT is king, always has been and always will be as long as there is a market.
>All bot
This is something literally all MMOs deal with and the only solution is to just actually invest in GMs who ban hammer.
The problem is you all have this fantasy of a diverse party of adventurers but all of you want to be the guy who kills the monsters and not the guy who makes Leather Jerkins or the guy who has to trade everyone's items around like a pack mule. Look what happened when TOR added Jedi. Everyone wants to be the hero, that's why every player is the Warrior of Light.
You just make combatants unable to function without the support of the other roles.
>No explorer? Don't have any idea which gates are open, where the enemy parties are, or where the treasure is being kept
>No trader? Can't store any meaningful amount of items. Can't resupply, so making it to the end of the dungeon is almost impossible. NPCs that might be non-hostile now attack
>No crafter? Can't convert materials found in the dungeon into usable tools. Most unique weapons, tool, accessories, furniture, siege machines, etc etc don't exist
Every class supports every class. Make leveling up take a long time, so players commit.
You didn't solve the problem, you killed the game. Majority of players want to fight mobs. When they find out someone has to do the boring jobs, they usually peace out to something else.
>EverQuest is a beloved historical MMO that provides a rich living world with only 100,000 subs
>Modern MMOs have 20 million subs
You would have fewer people yes. Normies would get filtered. But you don't need 20 million subs to make a successful MMO
>But you don't need 20 million subs to make a successful MMO
No but you need 20 million subs to make more profit and keep your investors satisfied.
>Investors
Yes,. capitalism ruins everything
Then players are unhappy and cry on twitter until the devs change everything because they're a fricking business and don't want their game to die. The game you (we) want is unprofitable. Even if they made it like that in the beginning it would change over time and become increasingly more casualized as players demand more and more "conveniences" and "quality of life improvements", just like WoW and FFXIV did.
See
Yeah, it won't be a WoW killer because it won't have the mass appeal, but for non-normies who play MMOs for the adventure and exploration, not the loot carousel, it would be based beyond belief
Star Wars Galaxies already solved this issue.
the guy who kills the monsters gets "tired" and has to go rest in town or he stops gaining exp.
chilling in the cantina with ERPing dancers was the quickest way to rest back up.
they even figured out how to have player jedi, it was a super sekret class that needed a special character slot that you had to unlock with an undocumented quest, and actually playing a jedi made you open PVP for the whole server and when you whip out the lightsaber in public, your location was pinged to every bounty hunter online
This gif always turns me to diamonds.
Girl on the rights skirt is the perfect length.
>God I wish MMOs had this degree of diversity
They used to. And then WoW came out and utterly destroyed the genre.
Some of the best times I've had in video games are playing shit like SWG and Shadowbane where they're living breathing worlds with players doing whateverthefrick they want and not worrying about powerleveling to endgame.
Apparently in XIV 1.0 you could even do the MSQ as a crafter by bartering instead of fighting.
XIV 1.0 had a lot of pie in the sky ideas with no real idea on how to execute them. "Crafting classes are equal to combat classes" sounds good on paper, but it practice it meant the entire MSQ was just running across the world talking to people, even if you were playing a combat class there were no battles
No one wants any of those things. They want something to hijack their brain for 8-12 hours a day and to watch their numbers get bigger.
Also I would recommend roleplaying and not MMOs.
Despite some of the flak the show got, SAO has the perfect atmosphere for an MMO. Some players adventured, some cleared floors, some went psychokiller PvPer, some just wanted to sit and craft...
It's a far more roleplay-aligned dynamic, something which only a small minority of people actually care for. That's without even considering the logistics of accommodating every possible role someone might want to fill from a development standpoint - and the fact some of these roles would literally be a second job and demand a huge level of commitment and time investment.
It's not feasible or practical, and for the average person not fun.
>Also I would recommend roleplaying and
ahahahahaha
>It's not feasible or practical, and for the average person not fun.
I would say 100% of the actual best games of all time are not catered towards "the average person". If you are already at a point where you feel like a video game is not worth existing if it can't get mass market mainstream appeal, then just give up even bothering with action games entirely and make Candy Crush 2
We're all slaves to the almighty dollar. If you aren't making the most amount if money for the least amount of effort, your game is shit and won't last in modern corporate America. It's financial black hole.
>It's not feasible or practical
This confuses me because MMOs in the 90s were financially successful with under 100k subs. Now the genre is so much more popular, games have Millions of subs. Obviously you won't make as MUCH money, but you should still make more than you spend with a niche mmo?
>Obviously you won't make as MUCH money
The entire reason a company exists is to make as much money as possible. No company ever says "yeah this is enough money let's stop here." Stop being moronic. Nobody is arguing that the ideas in this thread would make a bad MMO. The point is this type of MMO that appeals to only a small niche CANNOT exist because MMOs and the companies that make them need to make a lot of money and they can't do that if they're making a game only 1000 people want to play, and even if they did they'd have legions of morons begging them to change the game to appeal to them, the wider audience, and that is exactly what they would do because they WANT TO MAKE MORE MONEY, NOT LESS MONEY.
So how does any non-mainstream quirky game ever get made then? Consumers are idiots, they don't know what they want until you give it to them. 90% of the posts on this board are people whining about gameplay elements while being completely ignorant of how the core structure of the game would break if those elements were removed. Saying "well all the biggest games do X and so we have to only ever do X and chase after their leftovers" is a stupid way to do business
>So how does any non-mainstream quirky game ever get made then?
Those are made by indie devs and they do not have the massive amounts of resources required to make an MMO or keep one running, as has been proven so many times by mountains of failed Kickstarter MMOs.
>Saying "well all the biggest games do X and so we have to only ever do X and chase after their leftovers" is a stupid way to do business
Well clearly you're wrong since literally every company does exactly that.
>The entire reason a company exists is to make as much money as possible
the entire reason a company exists is to limit liability. the profit-above-all-else thing is a perversion of the company imposed by capitalism in general and the dodge brothers in particular.
>No company ever says "yeah this is enough money let's stop here."
you mean like a non-profit
>the profit-above-all-else thing is a perversion of the company imposed by capitalism in general and the dodge brothers in particular.
Well, maybe if you self-financed, you wouldn't need to compete for capital.
>The entire reason a company exists is to make as much money as possible
Exactly, which is why we have to fantasize about a company making the best Game possible, not the best Money Making Software possible.
The market is much bigger now and demands a certain level of a quality, which is ironic considering the state of WoW and FFXIV right now. You're contending with the idea of "Will people play X instead of Y, or Z, or...?" Also unless you have a hoard of disposable wealth and army of developers at your back, the game will probably look as shit as an MMO from the 90s.
The streamlining process brainwashed people into the current mentality. It was a good move from a business perspective but eliminated any semblance of interaction and community.
>games have millions of subs
they don't
>roleplaying
WoW brainrot destroyed the concept, it's all about raidlogging and beating your chest about how great you are and nothing else now.
> Despite some of the flak the show got, SAO has the perfect atmosphere for an MMO. Some players adventured, some cleared floors, some went psychokiller PvPer, some just wanted to sit and craft..
Almost all real MMOs have dynamics like this, the difference is in an anime you can skip over the long periods of resource grinding where people differentiate themselves and you can have people who literally never do certain content which is completely unrealistic
>Fighter, Trader, Crafter, Explorer Holy Quadrinity
God I fricking wish this would be so fricking cool.
Eve online legally has this but you gays make excuses to not jump on and blap c**ts with us
Personally, I don't wanna jump in there because
1) There isn't an actual videogame attached to that deep and intricate social network.
2) Even diehard EvE gays tell me to stay away from it because it's been getting moronic updates and c**ty chat moderation as of late.
>No game
There actuality is though
>Bitter vets are butthurt about dumb shit
Yeah cuz they can't multi box afk rat in supers in perfect safety while teleporting across the entire universe anymore
They're just morons anon
>There actuality is though
Tell me about it.
>Yeah cuz they can't multi box afk rat in supers in perfect safety while teleporting across the entire universe anymore
They're just morons anon
I mean, I did see the fricking nu-Doctor-Who promotional crossover with my own two eyes, and I'm not sure if you can vouch for the chat moderation.
Because people want an actual PvE videogame instead of a space libertarian simulator
To be fair CCP is doing better lately with this.
They're pushing into making more group pve content as well as dynamic pve content, like with diamond rats, FOBs, abyss, homefront operations, corp opportunities and the new Faction Warfare
Those roles describe Eve Online.
reminds me of lineage 2 with dwarven crafters and scouting for farming areas
>Traders
Autism sim with spreadsheets and bartering as the only gameplay. The most excitement you can have is pressing forward to travel behind the fighters and wait outside of dungeons until they come back out to escort you or chance it without them, if you successfully make it to the next settlement it renders their protection useless and you'll cut them out. Eventually nobody will play trader as supply exceeds demand and they find out how fricking boring it is.
>Crafters
Don't even need to leave town, just sets up a shop and either larps until a bar fills up or has to do QTEs to produce shit items for people actually playing the game. Completely reliant on material you have no way of directly getting.
>structures
Love seeing a map full of shacks and RPing that I live in Brazil.
>Explorers
>HEY GUYS I SCOUTED AHEAD AND....wait, you guys already killed everything and looted the good stuff and the mediocre stuff? Well, I planned a course through all the dangers, do I still get paid for my effort? Where are you going? Please buy my maps..."
You gays just want power over the fighter class by manipulating markets so that they're forced to play house with you. When fighters just go off on their own and only use a few crafters for their own personal gear nobody will continue to play these classes. Pick up TTRPGs and RP your autism there. That said, MMOs suck anyways.
Agreed. These shouldn't be roles. Just situational advantages some players can bring.
This is some truly low IQ autism
I just don't want to play a game as a literal bag, nor a crafter who, as I said, just waits for bars to fill so that other people can have fun, nor a map maker in a video game where data is mined minutes after each update making my role absolutely pointless.
If you want to be useless just keep living, you're already the best.
Never heard of Eve Online?
>"I have a key to get us extra loot in zones Y and Z"
Vanillla WoW did this once. Also a lot of the vanilla dungeons needed keys and attunements in order to access.
MMORPGs are dead and greed killed them. Move on.
FFXI is the single greatest game I've ever played in my life.
Based. XI is a shell of its former self and still manages to shit all over ‘modern’ MMOs
Based. Got it on NA release and played through ToAU and it is the best MMO ever made hands down.
I tried playing this a couple of months ago and I couldn't get into it sadly.
It seems like it's a comfy game.
you havent played much then
play city of heroes
>Seller: Selling "binguthings" upgrade
>Me: How much do you want for it?
>Seller: Offer?
>Me: Huh, I dunno, 5M?
>Selller: lol
>They never reply again
I'm glad auction house killed player trading.
Remember when Level 5 made one of the best interconnected job ecosystems ever in a video game, and then for some reason made it a single player game where you just switch between all the jobs yourself
It's the best "offline RuneScape" simulator game I've experienced. Always wanted more like it but everything always goes too far into the "sim" route.
hey remember A Tale in the Desert
it's still going
I would like to frick a cat
>Gunbound
>Priston Tale
>Ragnarok Online
>Lineage II
>Flyff
>S4 League
>Maple Story
>Dragonica
>BOTS
>SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online
>at least ten others I can't even remember the name of
I miss it bros
but it's never coming back
you can play gunbound on browser right now
RO private servers
Flyff is getting a UE upgrade so it's the most promising
Maple Story will forever be bad because they never knew what to do with it and had no clue why it's successful beyond people liking seeing numbers rack up.
I know there are private servers, but they're all shit now.
Gunbound in particular is absolutely raped to death by Peruvians; apparently the entire population of Peru plays on that one private server.
Even the ones that are still up, or have private servers, still have awful gameplay changes that make them unplayable.
Hey, how about walkling is slow as shit, and riding is quite fast, but you can only ride in a group, going from 2 to 10 members with 10 being the fastest ?
In fact, why not gatekeep ALL convenience features being needing to be in a big group, and so having to form them.
Maybe even have it level-up if the group have the same member as last time it was formed, making it a lite-guild that is limited to whatever the max group size is and do not have real permanence ?
Maybe lose a bunch of experience if a member is replace, to favorise the formation of cliques that'll end up doing everything together, even if there's tensions there'll be incentive to solve it instead of the group just dissolving.
i dunno lol
Slippery slope fallacy and a false flag...?
The average MMO player is an autist, and autists need an incentive and a mechanical reason to interact with others players.
Simple as.
The average MMO player isn't an autistic you projecting autistic. They're often people with free time who want to just have a forever game they can come back to and accrue progress over time.
they want big number
I'm glad you're not a dev
Most MMORPGs have servers that can't even hold 5k players at once.
So?
I forgot to reply, deleted most of my post by accident and ran away in shame. I'm not typing it all again.
City of Heroes had the darkest of parties
Max of 8, instanced raids were 3x8 or 24
>Tanker: melee and PBaoe, lean hard into defenses or build some damage
>Scrapper: melee and PBaoe, all offense but creative defenses, like pure regen or high dodge
>Defenders: ranged, generally shitty damage but of specific types with some bonus effects. Leaned into healing or insane active buffs
>Controllers: ranged that lean in DPS plus some cc, or sacrifice damage to go HARD on enemy CC and debuffs
>Blasters: all ranged DPS, shit defenses but their powerless gave all sorts of different perks for a power fantasy(burn after effects, traps, chill, defense debuff)
Almost any composition was possible if you tried hard enough
I wish the private servers were more active, CoH was so cool. I only got to play when Homecoming went public. There was a short period of time the game was crazy popular, but it's only got roughly 2k players daily right now.
wonder why this version of the same thread from earlier is doing so much better with bumps hrmm
>Same thread
The past one was just about the party in combat. This thread is about side factors.
Ragnarok online used to be one of those games were having a party was basically mandatory to do anything, from leveling to crafting, and you know what happened? People decided that they would rather multibox than deal with other people. If you ask me MMOs where destined to end up this way since the only thing they ever had over singleplayer games was the social aspects, and now way many other things can give you the same thing. Even singleplayer games now have multiplayer modes that are in par with MMOs on top of decent singleplayer options. MMOs are just an outdated concept.
Relying on other people sucks. In some older MMOs you could be completely soft-locked and unable to do content at all depending on what class you played. This doubly blows massive dick if you don't have anyone that likes playing certain roles like healer because it means at least someone is getting fricked in playing a role they don't enjoy. Features like Dungeon Finder actually do wonders for getting people together to do shit and not waste time.
Sure but it had the feeling of being 'lived in'. Maybe it was just the virtue of having actual personalities, voices, and faces to put to characters but it felt more like a fantasy world than just an MMO environment.
Like walking through Orgrimmar it just looks like Orgrimmar - a bunch of scattered shops run by NPCs, life is run behind the scenes at the hands of computer code.
In SAO the players had homes, player-run shops, unique events, events influenced or caused by the players actions themselves, etc. It had a personal touch that only comes from exactly that - a person. Hundreds of them actually. For most modern MMOs player interaction begins and ends at your Activity Queue and the Auction House.
I didn't read the OP nor this thread but I came to say play mabinogi
Mabinogi is a great game but last time I played it I ended up spending $20 on commerce reforges and realized I wasn’t having fun, I think I got frustrated because I had calculated the time to get the Caladbolg sword and even with rank 1 commerce it was completely absurd.
mabi has pretty much no party dynamics whatsoever for a huge majority of the time you play it
They slowly been trying to add roles into the game, mostly endgame stuff. Problem is, the game just wasn't designed around having roles so you have these makeshift roles. "One group needs to go here and the other group needs to go there.". The funny part is you can finally be a full healbawd support in mabinogi but it takes you going though most of the game's content just to reach that point.
>going though
going through*
i really wanted to give mabi a shot to get to the endgame stuff people like to talk up but the new player experience is kinda bad honestly, the game felt pretty empty the whole time. i was playing for weeks too, not like i only gave it a few hours
>i really wanted to give mabi a shot to get to the endgame
Fricking why? When people talk about endgame in mabinogi its never anything good. That's like wanting to jump into lava because people were talking about jumping into lava.
guess i just talked to the wrong shills
Post more stirrup socks please
>What happened to social or dynamic factors affecting player organization in MMOs?
The internet is now in the palm of everyones hand at all times. The social novelty and "half" RP aspect of the games is no longer a selling point unfortunately.
The ideas of FFXI sound fun but the interface, gameplay, and general disrespect for your time aren't.
I wish we'd just get another game with a fun job system that let classes do very different things and mix/match in fun ways. Like a Black Mage mixed with Dragoon letting them jump to parts of the terrain that are otherwise out of reach for a lot of enemy attacks and using their long range magic from there. Or even something as simple as cutting their spellcasting short with a jump that dodges the attack they were standing in the way of, they'd not finish the spell and that'd suck but at least they were up in the air for the attack. Shit like that.
the interface was alright
the gameplay was fricking gross with how useless combat felt. The timing between attacks and damage registration is non-existent, and while that doesn't matter to the east it feels fricking awful to me. It made me drop Maplestory 2, though that had basically nothing going for it at all. Other than that the zero-customization class-out-of-a-box just made you feel like a limp dick side character.
> jump to parts of the terrain that are otherwise out of reach
can't happen that's not part of the formula
Actually MMOs need to go back to being made for TTRPG math nerds who enjoy numbers optimization instead of action-game brain poisoned people like this
People are good at video games and all this is all useless beyond the first few years of MMOs being a mainstream thing. Once actual gamers get their hands on a game, there is no teamwork unless the gameplay mechanics are so limited and rock paper scissor-y that you are forced to work with others.
I can't help but laugh at all the bootlicking shills using the screaming Black person fallacy when I have a 2 week ban on my record in GW2 for calling MYSELF a grumpy c**t.
Picrel.
you've really made the argument against yourself in a clear and concise manner. good job anon!
>B-but actually I'm right and you're wrong thoughever because... BECAUSE I JUST AM, OKAY?
it's pretty cool though that you made sure no one in that game had to put up with you anymore. Heroic really.
I accept your concession.
do you miss playing?
Of course not. It's a temporary ban, moron-kun, it says so right there in the screenshot, which means I quit of my own volition
of course it was a temporary ban you can see date right there. that doesn't mean you can t miss playing.
I can redownload the game and access my account at any moment. It stands to reason that I wouldn't miss something I have ample access to.
if you say so anon.
I'm not sure what your goal was asking that question, but alright I suppose.
>play classic on a private server
>formed a party via chat
>we all arrived to gnomeregan except the tank
>he “just turning in quests” while standing still in darkshire for 10 minutes
>”im on my way guys” while casually jogging towards strangletohn vale
>got incredibly pissy and left the group once warlock had enough of it and focibly summoned him to the entrance
>”dude duck group finders and and instantly entering the dungeon, xd”
YOU THINK YOU DO, BUT YOU DON’T!
>duck
phone tourist be gone.
>i have no arguments
Here’s one, i’m literally the 90% of this sites userbase. You are not special.
Name a better dynamic then