Mtg killer?

With all the recent hate against WOTC is it possible that another company create a card game that competes with magic directly in the fantasy competitve card game space? If any one could my bet would be on Paizo

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Flesh and Blood.
    Already has 9 sets, competitive / world championship scene, widely popular in all western countries.
    PVE in the works and expected to release this year(dnd like experience)

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I tried flesh and blood a couple of times and thought it was ok for a card game but they implement to many gimmicks to go super mainstream and they are starting to push to many decks that don't bleed into each other which might cut some of thier audience out of packs

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Flesh and Blood.
      It sucks, and it's not very cool. Sorry dude

      >Those tend to be labeled Living Card Games, or LCGs

      Oh cool, I didn't know that was a thing. Are there any good ones? I liked Magic (and, and I'm dating myself here, the BattleTech card game), but around 17 I realized how horrible the business model was.

      Buy singles

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MtG is too big. The only thing that can kill MtG is MtG itself, although they're doing a commendable job of it so far.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is correct. As long as wizards has a stranglehold on mtg's mechanics by virtue of presentation, they can do whatever they want and still sell. Not many ways to express tapping, attacking, blocking, trample, flying, etc without infringing on "presentation" or coming off as a cheap knock-off. What ends up happening is that we end up getting shit like yu gi oh, where the text boxes have to overexplain shit just to avoid writing "destroy target creature" or "protection from orcs" because wizards may not own the mechanics, but they own those exact words to describe it.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    theoretically someone could if they saw a market vacuum that they could then fill.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think if paizo had the game waiting in the wings, releasing a "good guy" version of magic right now off the heels of magic and them getting spotlight attention from releasing the ORC statement could push them super far in the market.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        what do you think about Sorcerery tcg? it should be hitting shelves this year

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All it takes is for someone to make a science fiction version of magic such as Science: The Processing and it will be golden

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Cooperative LCG is a TCG killer
    hmm

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    nothing could possibly be worse than post-FIRE mtg

    playing against karn and oko feels like going to the dentist

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >nothing could possibly be worse than post-FIRE mtg
      Have you tried Yu-Gi-Oh?

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I feel like all TCGs are inherently evil because their business models rely on forcing people to buy cards that they don't want. Unless there's a game that allows people to just buy the cards they want instead of mystery packs?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I guess it depends if you view casinos as evil. At the end of the day, it’s all voluntary. The only difference is that TCGs are marketed towards impressionable children and teenagers. Which does make it a bit more scummy in my eyes.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        casinos aren't rigged, if magic the gathering arena were audited by the gaming commission everyone at WOTC would be in federal prison

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >The only difference is that TCGs are marketed towards impressionable children and teenagers. Which does make it a bit more scummy in my eyes.

        Bingo.

        Children aren't allowed in casinos (or to play the lottery, or bet on horse racing, etc) because we as a society have decided that it's not right to exploit children in this way, children on average having even worse impulse control than the typical adult's already poor standards.

        casinos aren't rigged, if magic the gathering arena were audited by the gaming commission everyone at WOTC would be in federal prison

        also has a good point in that casinos are regularly audited by regulatory bodies to try and keep them in the same ballpark as fair, whereas TCGs are the wild west.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Those tend to be labeled Living Card Games, or LCGs, as TCG is in fact specifically defined by the randomized acquisition of cards. I can see making a draft-first TCG that has a "face" card for each pack to show what kinds of card are in it, giving the full list on booster boxes to publicize the exact prevalence.

      casinos aren't rigged, if magic the gathering arena were audited by the gaming commission everyone at WOTC would be in federal prison

      >casinos aren't rigged
      Actually they're rigged far more than Arena, as everything is carefully designed to ensure the average is ALWAYS giving money to the casino for EVERYTHING, whereas Arena guarantees you something and lists out the exact odds publicly to comply with EU law.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Those tend to be labeled Living Card Games, or LCGs

        Oh cool, I didn't know that was a thing. Are there any good ones? I liked Magic (and, and I'm dating myself here, the BattleTech card game), but around 17 I realized how horrible the business model was.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Android: Netrunner was the most popular.
          SW:LCG and 40k Conquest had their fans while they were around and AGoT was good for a multiplayer card game from what I hear.
          Sadly, FFG has dropped the competitive LCG model and all LCGs still in print are co-op.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They dropped Netrunner because WotC pulled their license

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >FFG drops LCG that were fucking fantastic like Android: Netrunner
            >instead invest heavily into Keyforge's randomized preset deck model
            >the randomized deck algorithm breaks and now they have nothing
            fucking FFG, how do they keep failing.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Oh cool, I didn't know that was a thing. Are there any good ones
          Ashes Reborn is a great one
          Can learn and try some games for free with access to the entire card pool on ashteki.net

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >I can see making a draft-first TCG that has a "face" card for each pack to show what kinds of card are in it, giving the full list on booster boxes to publicize the exact prevalence.
        The problem with pushing draft is that it's inherently expensive to play. I was working on a game where draft is the main format and abandoned the idea of actual boosters pretty quickly.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The problem with pushing draft is that it's inherently expensive to play.
          For the usual per-pack price point, yes, but the point of putting draft as the first design priority is keeping away from the singles scalping that has vigorously shat on MTG's entry cost on several occasions. Secondary Market delenda est, I say!

          Also, you can do draft without fresh packs by just re-shuffling a collection in accordance with the prevalence list. Pack instructions for such in booster-boxes. The point is to have the randomized boosters be there for a serious gameplay purpose instead of just being a predatory business model.

          In the "ultimate" case, there'd be $200+ "Set Boxes" containing the cards needed for any possible draft pool of the set in question, justifying the price tag by including a shuffling+repacking machine to automatically re-randomize the set for a truly one-time purchase of as many drafts as you wish to play.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Firstly, the face card idea doesn't really solve the issues with the secondary market as you'll just have the same issue that MTG has when it releases a line of decks, people will only buy the packs with the good cards.

            Designing for draft won't do anything to the secondary market other than maybe kill it. Either everyone is playing draft and there's no demand for singles or people play constructed and the singles market operates as normal.

            Your other ideas about re-using cards for a draft and selling a single box rather than boosters is the direction I went in as well, eventually settling on a modified cube format where players influence the card pool they draft from. That also builds value in the game growing like a TCG, whereas if you try to force booster draft then each set is self contained.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Unless there's a game that allows people to just buy the cards they want instead of mystery packs?
      Games that people actually play have a secondary market where you can buy exactly the cards you want.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >secondary market
        Cancer and a travesty of business and game design. Fuck off.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm not sure if you're pretending to be retarded on purpose but the price of a card that's actually in demand takes into account how many boxes of draft chaff on average need to been open to get it. I.e., the draft chaff the hairy taco man never sells is literally priced into the card you buy.
        What you're saying is like saying "supply chain problems? no that doesn't affect me I just walk to the nearby grocery store".

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Let me explain to you the REAL business model.

      The TCG Designers are selling to Distributors at cheap bulk rates. Those are the guys who own warehouses of all kinds of things and handle shipping products to different stores. Sometimes the TCG is the distributor. Distributors are selling boxes primarily to "miners" at slightly higher bulk rates to cover their costs and for balancing demand from all the different miners. Miners crack hundreds (sometimes thousands) of boxes and sell the rarest cards on the secondary market at a set of prices that cover their costs and sell the less rare cards at cost or as freebees depending on how in demand certain rare singles are. Anyone opening packs for fun is a very small amount of what is going on and nobody cares about that at all.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Magic players already know they’re supporting a scandalous business model, and they have been for decades. D&D players were under the illusion that WOTC cares about them. I don’t think magic players suffer from that same delusion. They know WoTC sucks, they’re just in too deep to care.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The closest thing you can get to a MTG Killer is one of the popular card arena games making a physical version, like Hearthstone, but Blizzard any other clones like the shit from Riot would never waste their money on this.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I wonder if /tg/ could make their own card game.

    Anyone is allowed to print with or without art, any legal card can be printed for tournaments, completely open market, the Ganker way.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No, it would devolve into a mess immediately. You need organisation and structure to design a game, not a mess of people doing whatever they want likely power creeping their pet deck.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There was once a hero who tried. The battle was valiantly fought, but despite his efforts, he did not succeed.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Disney Lorcana is going to be duel master kaijudo but with recognizable figures

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You mean Yu-Gi-Oh?
    Or maybe pokemon?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's why I meant fantasy specific, yugioh lost most of its fantasy long ago and has never had much lore in the cards unless you really look into the art.
      Also
      >pokemon
      It's never gonna be number. People just collect, that's why it does well.

      There was once a hero who tried. The battle was valiantly fought, but despite his efforts, he did not succeed.

      Duel masters is just magic light for the Japanese cause WOTC thought simpler rules would sell better over there

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        People have been calling games MTG killers for at least a decade and a half now. Won't happen. MTG will kill itself and it is going that way.

        Pokemon is the more played than MTG or Yu-Gi-Oh! according to both their tournament and official online client statistics.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Imagine being the "most played" yet zero LGS really care about it.

          Disney is making a TCG. If it's good enough to be played seriously and production isn't predicated on artificial scarcity, stores will start carrying it to cater to kids and disney moms who don't want to deal with the spergery of middle aged men playing MtG, YGO, and Pokemon.

          I don't think it will ever take off cause selling disney to the card game crowd (teenage and middle age guys the have enough cash to play) would be tough unless it's marvel or star wars

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Disney is making a TCG. If it's good enough to be played seriously and production isn't predicated on artificial scarcity, stores will start carrying it to cater to kids and disney moms who don't want to deal with the spergery of middle aged men playing MtG, YGO, and Pokemon.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The big problem is that you have Yu-Gi-Oh to fill the kitchen table niche that Magic (and when WotC had it Pokemon) used to have. Whoever decides to start up the late 90s card wars again would have to fit into the niche of kitchen table and tourney niche that let Magic really survive to the present day. And nobody is really going to try.

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