My headcanon is that the Horus heresy was an entirely secular power struggle and that all the demonic shit is literally imperial propaganda with a dash of World Eaters fanfics. The demonic aspects of all 'chaos' warbands are all imperial propaganda that only malnourished peasants (99% of imperial worlds) lap up.
The reality is that in an actual Imperial v Anti Imperial battle, the two sides would be indistinguishable apart from their colours.
Fucking enlightened take, but have your considered embracing khorne as your lord and saviour?
I had this near-exact take a year ago, trying to explain it to anyone knowledgable enough was fustrating, they would all just get nonplussed and then dismiss it in a kind of bitchy way. People like their imperial propaganda I guess.
The problem is that Chaos is so deeply entwined with the rebels, the story makes no sense otherwise.
The thing is that the Traitor forces were actively losing, without daemonic help they have no chance.
You sound like a dangerous mix of pretentious and stupid. Do you not know what head canon means?
>People like their imperial propaganda I gues
or maybe the people who hang out in the eye of terror sucking demon dicks for ten thousand years are actually fans of demons and it wasn't "secular" when a billion daemons tried invading Terra
The problem with that theory/idea is that too much of the lore is based around Chaos corruption. IIRC some traitor chapters did rebel without the influence of Chaos so it's not totally impossible. But I just can't see it working for the real story without reworking almost every bit of lore.
Could make it that the imperium really is divided internally between two sides, while some become disillusioned with the war entirely and turn renegade, and others become too enamoured of the slaughter or other aspects of the divide and are corrupted by chaos. Chaos (and faith powers) in this case could be remnant golden age nanotechnology, with various systems striving to enact some long forgotten order or follow new orders garbled through malfunctioning translation interfaces. Sheer, unwavering willpower and belief would be the means for any positive outcome in areas or planets where nanotech infuses everything / the veil is thin.
This was a legitimate interpretation/possibility in WH40k, and sometimes discussed before the establishment of nu41k and the subsequent demythologization of the Horus Heresy.
Of course it is almost impossible to argue that Chaos did not exist, so the losers of the conflict inevitably fell to Chaos in the aftermath, but it's entirely possible that "chaos" as a cosmic force was completely uninvolved in the creation of the conflict (outside of its latent, universe-spanning effects, insofar that all emotions are technically of the warp, etc.)
>This was a legitimate interpretation/possibility in WH40k, and sometimes discussed before the establishment of nu41k and the subsequent demythologization of the Horus Heresy.
No, 100% correct, actually. People who take the myth of WH40k (not to be confused with nu41k) as literal truth are legit retarded.
>No, 100% correct, actually.
>People who take the myth of WH40k
It wasn't a myth, there were literally characters still alive from the events.
Chaos Space Marines were in the game from the very beginning, don't be ridiculous. The traitors siding with Chaos was never the mythological part.
CSMs were introduced in Slaves to Choas and The Lost & The Damned
Renegade Marinesd from Roguer Trader were just deserters and enemies, not Chaos.
Both of those are RT books
>and was never explored or covered for play
Literally the first time it was ever mentioned was to explain the existence of chaos marines, and the chaos legions were organizations left over from that war and very overtly worshipping daemons. There was never a secular heresy implied or even left for the imagination.
You're both right to be fair; chaos as we know it wasn't in RT 'the book', but Slaves to Darkness was very much RT era.
I keep vacillating over Horus - sometimes I think the original "dude got set up by tribal yahoos on Davin and was possessed" has that element of "fuck you, don't care, you lose" which epitomised RoC (and especially STD) Chaos, but equally I admit that it does lack a certain grand narrative sweep.
Completely irrelevant to what I said. The Horus Heresy was mythologized in WH40k, and was never explored or covered for play. It was entirely possible that the Horus Heresy itself was an internecine civil war that was coated with religious significance and propaganda post-hoc.
It was absolutely myth. The fact that there were an insignificant number of characters alive is entirely irrelevant, nevermind the fact that their accounts were absent and/or unreliable.
It's not remotely possible, or even coherent, given that the very existence of chaos powers is a secret.
>The Horus Heresy was mythologized in WH40k, and was never explored or covered for play.
moron the demon primarchs have been living proof that the traitors guzzle chaos cum since Armageddon
>you dare to call us "daemons"? This is fake news and imperial propaganda! History written by the victors and the Terran junta!
How do you reconcile this idea with chaos being a strictly controlled secret to the point that populations are liqudated and space marines are memory wiped just for knowing about it?
I’ve always wondered why traitors couldn’t just be…traitors. Not insane, mutated worshippers of evil gods. But all through the setting if a world rebels there’s ALWAYS a Chaos element at the heart. Some SM chapter shows up, proclaims Chaos as the cause, and they’re ALWAYS right. Abbadon can’t just be a charismatic and strong leader of a rebel faction using the warp and other shenanigans — he has to be a pawn of Chaos and surrounded by insane and mutated Chaos-worshippers.
Almost like they want a wargaming faction to have its own identity...
>Abbadon can’t just be a charismatic and strong leader of a rebel faction using the warp and other shenanigans — he has to be a pawn of Chaos and surrounded by insane and mutated Chaos-worshippers
Well, yes, seeing as if he wasn't a brainwashed meatpuppet at the start, he'd become so as a consequence of interacting with chaos.
>using the warp and other shenanigans — he has to be a pawn of Chaos and surrounded by insane and mutated Chaos-worshippers.
You can't used the warp without being used in turn.
That's why ADB is an idiot who should be banned from stepping 10 feet in BL headquarters,
No you don't get it, Abaddon totally has a Plan™, Trust the Plan™! Just two more millenia!
The Crimson "i-i meant to do that, really" Path is idiotic all on its own, but sure, I can suffer some 43d chess keikaku bullshit.
What I draw the line at however is Abby Sue being the single human, if not being in the entire galaxy who can use Chaos and the warp and not be used in turn.
Shit, even the Emperor had to pay for tricking the gods and then you have this mong running around for ten thousand years striking bargains with demons and not paying the tab.
Give me a break.
>and not be used in turn.
He is being used idiot. The only person who thinks he isn't being used is Abbadon.
Take that up with ADB and management.
>tl;dr Abbadon is literally too cool to fall for Chaos
You don't have to "fall for Chaos" to be manipulated by it, dumbass.
The resentment was caused by the emperor not taking into account the fact that some people would not believe him when he said he wasn't a god, just a man. He also hid the fact of the warp so uncovering this lie of omission & it's secret being enforced with the Edict of Nikea only made it even more source of perceived betrayal when one of his curious Primarchs Lorgar went on a soul search & did find out there were literal gods.
Truth was that humanity couldn't handle the warp, that was proven by the Age of Strife so his motives were pure but it cant be denied it was seen as a lie on that level. It was secular struggle but for godly reasons. There was also the angle of the Astarte's potentially being ""Retired"" like the Thunder warriors were after the unification war on Terra but instead it was after the great crusade was done they potentially be disappeared like the two missing primarchs.
Is it possible it began as this but ended with them taking Chaos just to say fuck you?
Does this mean I can headcanon Chaos to not fucking exist?
The problem is that horus heresy lore is post-hoc additional material to a current and standing lore, and that lore is that chaos space marines are 100% real and do worship the dark gods for wicked boons.
I don't want to play evil space marines. I want to put actual demons inside tanks and use sorcery against my enemies.
My headcanon is that chaos won milenia ago and that the entire 40k setting is just some chaotic hellscape that allows all the entities to continue to fight for all of time.
Wasn't that just the way things were before the Storm of Chaos and the 13th Black Crusade?
That's exactly what the Cabal believed.
Explain traveling without Geller field then.
Sure it makes sense if you ignore the mountains of evidence of traitorhood and chaos worship going hand in glove, in favour of the literally TWO traitor legions that don't fw daemons (and even then, it depends what day you catch them on)
Your headcanon is extremely boring
Cool fanfic needs explanation on deamonic incursions
But that's the opposite of the Imperial propaganda line, they desperately tried to hide the existence of Chaos for over 10 thousand years.
Anon its a bait thread dont reason with OP
We can't have ambiguous and questionably accurate lore in 40k anymore because MCU-style bullshit narratives full of nonsensical twists and turns is more popular and sells ten times as many models.
We still don't even know why Horus betrayed the Emperor but yeah all the ambiguity and mystery is completely gone.
Yeah we do, even if it's badly explained.
Unresolved daddy issues + feeling that the Space Marines were being increasingly sidelined by baseline humanity
>We still don't even know why Horus betrayed the Emperor
Horus was stabbed on Davin and put into a "healing trance". During this he was shown a vision of the "present day" grimdark Imperium by his deceased friend. Nighmare empire, corpse Emperor, the whole thing. He is then told "this will happen if the Emperor is allowed to stay in power". Horus is like "well that sounds awful". Then Magnus appears and is like "you're being bullshitted to, it's only a possible future, also you're literally talking to Erebus in disguise". Erebus is like "nuh-huh it's gonna happen". Ultimately he believes Erebus and starts the rebellion and causes the very future he sought to prevent.
All this has been known for a very long time. It's in the wikis if you can't be bothered to read the books
There's more to it than that. Horus found out that the Emperor made a deal with the Chaos Gods for power, which then made him realize that the Emperor is the biggest hypocrite ever. Horus had many reservations about serving Chaos right up until that point.
>Horus found out that the Emperor made a deal with the Chaos Gods for power
That was several years deep in the heresy
Yes but Horus wasn't into the idea of mainlining Chaos power or becoming just another slave of Chaos until he found out the Emperor did all that before it was cool
I agree, but the original question was about why the heresy started in the first place
The question was why did Horus betray the Emperor. I think it's safe to assume the Heresy would have happened anyway even if Lorgar had to lead it himself.
The Imperium had already put down two rebellious legions. Lorgar, Kurze and Angron rebelling wouldn't have changed much.
Horus was the lynchpin.
He was the key to the whole thing because he turned out to be receptive to the idea of betraying the Emperor. Just look at the set up though, if he goes into that vision and just tells Erebus to fuck himself he doesn't wake up from it.
Magnus would still destroy the webway project and ruin everything trying to warn the Emperor Lorgar/Curze/Angron/Alpharius was in open rebellion, so the end result of the Heresy would be the same, if not worse since Curze/Alpharius having more input on the strategy via Horus's absence would mean bleeding the Imperium dry through a decades long guerilla war rather than a retarded bum rush against Terra.
Yeah, Magnus is basically the direct cause of the ruination of the Imperium and the Emperor's plans. The Heresy set things back a lot, but Magnus is the one who tore open a giant warp rift on Terra itself that the Emperor had to sit on and hold shut forever or doom the Imperium. As soon as that happened, the Emperor could no longer be an active force in the galaxy, he had to camp the Golden Throne forever. Even as Horus invaded Terra the Emperor could do nothing to stop him because all his strength had to go to holding the warp rift shut.
It also occurs to me that the evidence Magnus had of Horus actually betraying the Emperor was extremely fucking thin. You could take what he actually witnessed and think oh this is going to lead to a massive argument when Horus goes to confront the Emperor about lying to him. But everything else is based on knowledge of the future from looking into the fucking warp right?
>why did Horus betray the Emperor
He was the victim of a Chaos' ritual in some corrupted world after suffering a mortal wound in another one.
Well the source of that horse shit are literal demons and I'll let you figure out if they're trustworthy.
>the source are literal daemons
Anon it's confirmed explicitly. The Emperor was not a godlike being before he stepped through that Warp portal. He was just a particularly strong Perpetual before that moment. After his return, he had the necessary tools and power to create the Primarchs who are essentially Warp-based demigods wearing human skin.
>Anon it's confirmed explicitly.
No, it is not. The only thing that is confirmed is "he went into a portal and emerged more powerful". What happened inside is pure speculation. Horus claims he made a deal, others say "he stole from the gods" whatever that is supposed to mean. The Emperor says in Master of Mankind that anyone who treats with the warp is ultimately their pawn. It would be rather strange for demons to refer to him as the Anathema and make deals with him. You're free to pick your theory based on who you find trustworthy
It wasn't just Horus who said that, but the Perpetual woman who went with the Emperor to Moloch.
She just saw him go in and emerge more powerful, nothing more.
Without him there are empty plots and nothing else.
>it is totally fine and not concerning at all that the Emperor walked into the Warp and emerged not just a bit stronger but suddenly gifted with godlike power the likes of which a Perpetual woman, an immensely powerful psyker, has never even imagined before
>this isn't suHispanicious at all, no sir
>the Emperor could have made a deal with anyone, even Gork and Mork! Maybe he somehow snuck into Isha's cage and borrowed her power!
>>the Emperor could have made a deal with anyone, even Gork and Mork! Maybe he somehow snuck into Isha's cage and borrowed her power!
My dude, I don't know what happened, nor does anyone else really. There is only an extremely dubious claim by a fucking deamon that he made some kind of deal and the contents of it happen to be exactly what Horus wants to hear and exactly what is necessary into goading him into becoming more corrupt.
>sure there's only one reasonable explanation and all accounts we have agree on it, but ANYTHING could have happened!!!1!
There's plenty of evidence that supports the fact that the Emperor made a Faustian bargain in there, including and especially that Horus did the exact same thing years later.
>anything could have happened inside that portal
You do realize Horus entered the exact same portal and did the exact same thing, right? Like the Emperor before him, he met the Chaos Gods in there, agreed to be their servant, and then they handed him divine power.
>others say "he stole from the gods" whatever that is supposed to mean.
We know what he stole from them. The Emperor's side of the deal was that he would spread worship of Chaos throughout the Imperium and give them humanity to be their pawns. When he violated his end of the agreement, they paid him back by scattering the Primarchs and ensuring that half of them and half the Legions would fall to Chaos, destroying the Emperor's dream of a noble and perfect Imperium and bringing us to the current era of 40k where it's only a matter of time until Chaos wins.
> The Emperor says in Master of Mankind that anyone who treats with the warp is ultimately their pawn.
Yes, the irony and hypocrisy is palpable.
> It would be rather strange for demons to refer to him as the Anathema and make deals with him.
He's a nascent Chaos God, you know. Confirmed in TEatD Part 1. The Emperor is the Dark King and always was from the moment he sold the souls of all of humanity to Chaos in exchange for power.
>You're free to pick your theory based on who you find trustworthy
Anyone who thinks the Emperor is remotely trustworthy with all that he's done in the setting is a fool. He is just as bad as Chaos in the end, because he is their pawn and always was.
>You do realize Horus entered the exact same portal and did the exact same thing, right?
So fucking what? The Chaos Gods aren't the only thing in the Warp.
>The Emperor's side of the deal was that he would spread worship of Chaos throughout the Imperium and give them humanity to be their pawns.
This is a claim made by a deamon. They already lied to Horus on Davin and played Magnus like a fiddle, what the fuck makes you think they're telling the truth now?
>He's a nascent Chaos God, you know. Confirmed in TEatD Part 1. The Emperor is the Dark King and always was from the moment he sold the souls of all of humanity to Chaos in exchange for power.
My dude, Malcador literally spells it out for you in the book. They had Chaos on the ropes so they provoked the Heresy in other to fuck up his plans. You can then be forced into becoming the Dark King without ever making any bargain.
>Anyone who thinks the Emperor is remotely trustworthy with all that he's done in the setting is a fool.
Anyone who trusts deamons is an even bigger fool.
>So fucking what? The Chaos Gods aren't the only thing in the Warp.
What, did he go make friends with the Enslavers, or team up with Gork and Mork? In case you weren't paying attention, there's nothing good and nice in the Warp.
>This is a claim made by a deamon. They already lied to Horus on Davin
They didn't lie to Horus. Everything they told him, everything they showed him, was true. They just didn't tell him that Horus's own actions would lead to the destiny he foresaw. And we have no reason to doubt the daemons when they explain what the Emperor sold humanity for, since it's confirmed the Emperor did make a deal with the Chaos Gods in order to get the power and knowledge he needed to create the Primarchs.
>My dude, Malcador literally spells it out for you in the book. They had Chaos on the ropes so they provoked the Heresy in other to fuck up his plans.
Malcador probably thinks they totally had everything under control, but he's just as arrogant and blind as the Emperor who sold humanity to Chaos for power thinking there would be no consequences for it. The very moment the Emperor struck that bargain, the Chaos gods had already won. The price for betraying them was scattering the Primarchs; scattering the Primarchs ensured the Heresy; the Heresy ensured the slow collapse of the Imperium, which is beginning to accelerate now; and so you reach the same result in the end as if the Emperor had made good on his bargain and taught humans to worship Chaos in the first place. Chaos wins. Chaos was always going to win, in the end. Even the Emperor admits that if the Golden Path had gone perfectly, it would only have brought about a million years of stability and peace before inevitably Chaos would prevail regardless. That is the underpinning principle of 40k as a setting, there was never hope. The Emperor is just a moron who thought he could deal with the Devil and paid the price for it.
Or the Emperor's plan is both longer term and much more monstrous than he would ever let on. Regardless of anything else humanity did not suffer the fate that the Eldar did and still mostly rule the galaxy. I don't believe the Cabal's vision of a Chaos victory, I think it results in a Chaos version of the Imperium rather than total destruction. Is the Emperor that cynical?
>we have no reason to doubt the daemons when they explain
Anon, daemons are a deluded as everyone else in 40, maybe more since they're bound by their own nature as parasites.
And you're forgetting the hints about the Emperor having foreseen it all. He doesn't become a 5th Chaos God, he becomes the God-Emperor that permakills daemons and burn the inner realms of the gods when given the chance.
And that's even without mentioning the stated intentions of wiping out the taint of Chaos from the Inmaterium to turn it onto its original state. Big E ambitions are really really big.
>What, did he go make friends with the Enslavers, or team up with Gork and Mork?
I don't know and neither do you. That's my entire point.
>They didn't lie to Horus. They just didn't tell him that Horus's own actions would lead to the destiny he foresaw.
This is called lying by omission.
>since it's confirmed the Emperor did make a deal with the Chaos Gods
Yeah, confirmed by deamons who lie and mislead constantly. You can choose to trust that, I won't.
>The price for betraying them was scattering the Primarchs
Objectively incorrect. Erda did that.
There is exactly 1 piece of evidence. A statement by Horus who got his info from a deamon. Given that Horus got his ass obliterated from existence by trusting them I wouldn't be so hasty.
Did they really retcon the part about the shamans committing mass suicide to create the Emperor? It was so much better lore than the perpetual shit.
Nope, nothing has been said about it since RT.
No. People have just been speculating about it, nothing has been confirmed or denied.
>Ultimately he believes Erebus
Does he? All we know for sure is that he learns that the Emperor has hidden the existence of Chaos from him. We don't know what he thinks about the veracity of the vision and we don't get to see the subsequent conversations between him and Erebus, which are apparently extensive. All we know for certain is that he is eventually convinced that the beings Erebus worships can give him the power to actually defeat the Emperor.
Well, he starts the Heresy right after so it certainly seems that way.
He doesn't start the Heresy he joins it. But it doesn't automatically follow that he believes Erebus or shares the same motivations.
I can't remember where, but some random blog described CSM as "Barbarians at the gate of Rome"
Personally I think that's the best way to see them, (That, or as Dark Ages Viking types)
My favorite interpretation of Chaos in general has always been when it's the kind of thing where a single daemon can blender a room full of Space Marines, but they're really rare and not well-known or understood. Gives it a more magicky feeling, forbidden knowledge type stuff
>Barbarians at the gate of Rome
That's da orkz.
My headcanon is that the Whore-Us Hearsay was actually a massive gay orgy planetary tour where all the pissparks got gangbanged in every hole by every species and abhuman across the galaxy and most of them died from having their holes stretched and gaped beyond recognition and the eye of terror is actually Whorus's still-gaping anus through which all Gay-oss crawls oozes forth and the secret poison that was slowly killing Guilliman was actually AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDS from all the gay sex because all the Pussypacks are full GAY AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDS
I take it even further: all the bullshit about demons, xenos and psykers is Imperial propaganda. The only enemy Imperium has fought for 10k years are its own rebellious colonies. There are no space marines either. Only shitty guardsmen oppressing shitty peasants on shitty bumfuck worlds, while being fed a constant stream of brain-rotting stories about demons coming to eat them alive if they ever have a rebellious thought.
Every single WH40k book is an in-setting piece of propaganda literature, many of them are required reading for Imperial troops.
>the imperium gives its guardsmen propaganda bout how the imperium kills its own guardsmen for knowing about daemons to convince the guardsmen they're in a war against daemons that they'd be killed for knowing about
Look how many Imperium simps there are in real life and tell me it's not both shockingly practical and genius
In all seriousness, real life runs on contradictions like this one. Like an authoritarian government making a mundane activity a crime, so that technically anyone could be imprisoned, but only enforcing it against enemies of the regime. So yes, it could work.
Also Gods of Chaos are essentially four commandments: "Don't kill without orders", "Don't enjoy life", "Clean your ass" and "Protect status quo".
For Khorne I'd say it's more "don't get angry about how shitty life is, don't feel any urges to change how things are like violent revolution"
For Slaanesh I'd phrase it more like the Imperium is saying: "Don't have personal ambitions," but enjoyment and ambition are pretty closely interrelated so overall yeah that's an interesting way of looking at it
Doesn't really seem to fit well considering csm are inarguably real and are inarguably made up of the traitor legions. Besides what we have now is kind of like that anyway since half the legions didn't even turn to chaos until well after the Heresy (some even still function as uncorrupted renegade marines in 40k,) so the way we have things now everyone kind gets what they want; you renegade marine fags still get your renegade marines and chaosfags still get their chaos shit. Everyone wins.
>Old ones use warp
>die out completely
>Eldar use warp
>are on the rick of dying out(for real this time)
>humanity uses warp even for just basic things that dont directly interact like travel
>age of strife happens
>Necrons dont use warp
>beat their own Gods, turn into their own masters and wake up on a galaxy wich cannot realistically stop them
>Tau dont use warp
>only race wich seems to be on the upturn and somehow capable of surviving stuff no other faction could without spending much more resources to do it
I think the main message of 40k is that Satan is bad
The moral of 40k is the same moral as Doom, never EVER open portals to other dimensions just because they might offer infinite energy or the possibility of FTL travel
Nah, Word Bearers were bitch slapped so hard for role playing as gnomish Kabbalish tards that they embraced Chaos.
My head canon is that the spacemarines are all big tiddy goth girls under the armour and that all the gruff bald men screaming at each other is just Imperial propaganda with a dash of eclessiarchy fanfic. This keeps the average imperial ignorant of why exactly they abduct all the young men of anime protagonist age for 'induction' to the chapter, but none ever return as marines.
If you saw traitor marines fighting loyalists outside their armour, the only difference would be that the traitor girls have more tattoos and self harm scars.
IOW, your head canon is unfalsifiable because all evidence to to the contrary can be dismissed as propaganda.
There isn't any basis to your headcanon beyond 'governments lie' and we are shown repeatedly by neutral narrators, first hand narration by characters who matter, actual game mechanics and models that daemons are real and affect reality.
If you want to engage with that headcanon, feel free, but you are effectively just putting another layer of detachment between you and the fiction.
"This game represents the fictional propaganda of a fictional empire, and none of it is real even within that fiction' is a strange way to play, but enjoy I guess
Man, writing the Horus primarch book is going to be a fucking nightmare for someone huh. Do we know who's handling it?
"Lupus Daemonis" by Graham McNeill is the only story about Horus before the Luna Wolves and it's pretty recent, so I fear that maybe it will be him.
We've had so little Horus in the whole series really. Like what was going on with him and the Interex before Erebus crashed the party? He was openly advocating the idea of bringing an alien allied society into the Imperium against the opposition of most of his inner circle. And also seemed fixated on the idea that he should have been focusing on diplomacy over conquest even though that seems to be against the general course of the great crusade. I mean, if Erebus didn't steal the anathame he could have gotten himself into some serious fucking trouble without ever encountering Chaos.
>Graham McNeill in the afterword of Vengeful Spirit talks about how it's nonsensical that the character for whom the series is named for is such a nonentity in it
>says that's going to change
>that was in 2014
>since then Horus has done basically fuck all, spent the entirety of the Siege literally drooling on his throne while Abbadon and Perturabo did all the heavy lifting
>We've had so little Horus in the whole series really
that's what happens when you loosely corral a bunch of cats into a room and have them make a hundred different books about their own unique characters (occasionally featuring dante from devil may cry&knuckles)
Collected Visions gave you more on Horus than 15 years of novels have. One wonders why they even felt the need to make those novels at all, beyond the obvious one.
HH being imperial propaganda can make sense but modern 40k chaos marines not existing is stupid ass
The actual imperial propaganda doesn't even talk about traitor primarchs, but some stuff about nine sons of the Emperor against Horus and his devils or something like that.
Even many high ranking inquisitors on Terra have no idea of the real facts, and the Lords of Terra, etc are given an abridged version of the Heresy/Scouring.
Depends on the author and world.
In Pariah, for example, there's a nursery rhymes that mentions "nine primarch sons who stayed true and nine who fell
Yeah, the Abnettverse is called that for a reason.
The fucker even did a story about criminals auctioning a photo of Horus by Keeler and his writings about the early imperial Cult. Yeah, no biggie, right? Totally a normal thing in M41 and not something that would merit killing everyone in the planet, like it has happened for much less.
>Totally a normal thing in M41 and not something that would merit killing everyone in the planet, like it has happened for much less.
P sure that's what ultimately happened in that story
Fellas, I want to give back to this community after so long. I have access to some of the Greater Daemons removed from Forge World in high quality. They only recently gave me an extra axe for the best Bloodthirster model, I think it may be the last true run of said model. PLEASE, give me tips to recast this stuff and I will give it to all. I also have MK II assault squad bits(the full squad) new in bag from FW. I miss Carab Culln. help me fa/tg/uys
Same anon here, also getting a 3d printer and scanner I have a TON of old lead and metal models and many Heresy era appropriate things. I want to preserve and help us, any tips are greatly appreciated.