>my miracles can change lives, why would I waste one of them on my eyes when these spectacles work just fine? Now if you don't mind I'm going to regenerate this man's legs.
Is this a good reason for a healer to wear glasses?
>my miracles can change lives, why would I waste one of them on my eyes when these spectacles work just fine?
>regenerate
>fix what was never broken
i take it she took INT as a dump stat?
A nerve or a tendon is broken making the leg to malfunction or the leg is amputated so yes it's regenaration. It seems you took INT as the dump stat
um does the magic know what legs are? what if it gives the man hooves or tentacles? maybe the man never had legs and this is his natural state of being? does the healer even know what bones and tendons are? what if she gives him leg shaped flesh lumps instead of actual working legs?
All valid outcomes, depending on the situation. This is what happens when you try to wield magic you don't have a high enough intelligence to control. You get weird shit thats sort of like what you wanted but you got it wrong somehow.
After all, your magic system IS powerful enough to be dangerous when misused, right? It doesn't have baby rails on it to make it child friendly so no one can hurt themselves with it by doing it wrong? You don't give your wizards training wheels, do you?
Any magic user who is a player character is on training wheels by default, because they're using magic that has been handed to them in pre-packaged forms either by a god or by one of the true wizards powerful enough to create their own spells. Someone on the level of Mordenkainen, Bigby, Elminster, and the other spell inventors is effectively a demi-god whose true powers cannot be measured on a character sheet.
Okay, I'll play a wizard that doesn't know jack about shit and turn enemies into quivering meat piles with basic healing magic. You did it, this is the game now.
>anon discovers the spell "cause wounds"
we trained him to be an evil cleric as a joke
>It doesn't have baby rails on it to make it child friendly so no one can hurt themselves with it by doing it wrong? You don't give your wizards training wheels, do you?
It absolutely does, magic is pretty risk-free in the system, though you'll be hit with serious exhaustion if you spend all the Zeon you have. Also don't get fricking caught by the inquisition.
Nah, the risky shit is in Summoning and Mentalism.
A summoner fumbling badly enough can have a high demon twice the party's level popping up, immediately hostile to the summoner and immune to any attempts to banish/bind/control. There may even be several of them if the frick-up is catastrophic enough.
I've had both a PC and an antagonist almost die to fumbling psionics. One basically exploded himself and the other got dropped from critical brain damage.
now do the analysis for glasses....
The eyes are broken they can't work properly because of a faulty cornea
Yes the magic knows what a leg is
Poor eyesight generally is more a result of a congenital disorder or aging effects than injury. Typical healing spells aren't geared towards fixing such things, but I suppose it'd be perfectly reasonable to include healing magic than can fix such issues, though it'd mean including easy access to eternal youth.
If the healer has a basically limitless ability to heal (even if it has a daily limit, she recovers it every day), then not really. There is bound to be some off day or down time where she doesn't realistically need to heal anyone, and so could fix her eyes.
So, no. It's not a good reason.
It's easier to just admit you have a glasses fetish.
Well since powerful magic exists in this setting, the glasses allow her to see injury and disease within the body and soul without having to perform exploratory surgery. Overreliance on the glasses affects the eyesight, not in the sense of actual damage to the eyes, but dulls the mind's ability to process normal sensory input without aid of the glasses.
The healer wears glasses not because their vision is poor, but because the glasses are magical and help her diagnose. Maybe its something as simple as seeing the presence of poison, or the ability to see curses and other magical maladies as a sort of black haze around the afflicted. Healing magic is strong, but you still need to use the right spell for the job and the more you know about the mess you are trying to clean up the better.
>she can fix eyesight with her magic
>there is no way she has sick and wounded on every single day of the year, every year
I will assume its some weird form of vantiy or superiority complex disguised as humility
It would be a good way to signal that healing magic has limits and cannot fix everything. You can repair something back to its natural state, but you cannot change what that natural state is. A man who broke his back in a fall can be back on his feet again with a few spells. A man who was born unable to walk is beyond your power to help with magic, because as far as the magic is concerned there is nothing to fix.
>because as far as the magic is concerned there is nothing to fix.
This is the most boring kind of magic imaginable. It's just code with sparkles.
Whats the alternative? That every spell is a thinking genie that is free to interpret whatever your intent is and then act on its own judgement on how to carry it out? "Oh, this isn't what you TOLD me to do but I guessed its what you probably wanted so I did it anyway for you, free of charge 😉 " Because that shit is how you end up with your fireball spell picking sides in your war because it turns out it disagrees with your nation's tax policy and it does a U-turn in mid air and roasts your ass.
>if you don't like my moronic bullshit then you must like this other moronic bullshit I pulled from my ass!
How about a healing spell that heals, crazy idea right.
Okay, now engage with the material with more than a child's brain: how does the spell know how to heal? How can it tell one injury from another? Is it scripted into the spell and outside of the casters control, is it entirely dependent on the knowledge of the caster and the spell is just a manipulator they use to perform the healing, or is the spell itself intelligent or driven by an outside intelligent force?
In the scripted case, the spell is dependent entirely on what it is written to do. Whether hardcoded or based on flexible concepts, the moment that you run into a situation that its outside of the design parameters of the spell the spell will fail to work. You've already said you hate this, because its 'just code with sparkles'.
In the caster-dependent model, you are limited by what the caster themself knows. You know how to mend flesh and bone, good for you. Oh, your magician doesn't understand germ theory because it hasn't been discovered yet? Sorry, you can't cure even a basic bacterial infection. You simply don't know how, and the magic can't be used to do something you yourself do not understand anymore than a man with a hammer can forge a sword without the training to be a blacksmith.
In the outside intelligence model, you invoke the spell but have absolutely zero ability to influence or even really predict the outcome because the work is being done by something else that can have its own ideas. Maybe the imp that runs on the tiny magical hamster wheel is feeling generous today. Maybe they are on vacation and will be back in two weeks. Maybe the god who you are praying to agrees to help this time, maybe they chose to let this person you are trying to heal die because thats more in keeping with their grand plan. You can ask for help, but you are in no position to demand or force it and beggers can't be choosers.
Every magic system is going to be some version of one of the above 3. Pick one.
GOOD MORNING SIR DO THE NEEDFUL
I don't think that meme means what you think it means...
I pick the one where the healing spell heals, thanks.
>I pick the one where the healing spell heals
To heal means "to become sound or healthy again". But what is "unhealthy?" Does a healing spell, for example, remove freckles?
It means the healing spell heals, anon.
So would it bring back someone’s teeth if they fell out due to old age?
>Every magic system is going to be some version of one of the above 3. Pick one.
1 is the default. 3 is usually how magic works in pulp fantasy, and it's great at making magic feel mystical and more than just a game mechanic.
I've never seen the second option outside of your post. It's an interesting insight into the mind of a materialistic reddit-using bugman.
>I've never seen the second option outside of your post.
It comes up in certain fantasy novels and a few anime. Very recent example being Frieren, which repeatedly mentions that magic works off of visualization. The caster cannot do anything that they are unable to imagine how it would be done. The same story then contrasts this with 'the magics of the goddess', faith based spells which 'just fricking work' which frustrates the mages of the setting to no end because there's no reason they SHOULD work but somehow they do. We're obviously getting set up for a reveal on that later, but the story hasn't gotten that far yet so we don't know whats really going on with it yet beyond wild fan theories involving a superwizard unstuck in time who does the work for you if you ask nicely enough.
>Forgotren beyond Series End
I stopped reading there, but I'll assume that it's used when the author needs a convenient excuse for why magic can't do something without going any deeper than saying magic can't do that even doe it's magic. This is inferior in every way to magic that can't do something because it requires a cost too heavy than the wielder is willing to play or even that magic is fickle and even accomplished casters can't always bend it to their will. It's just a dumb handwave.
>magic is fickle
>It's just a dumb handwave
lmao literal author/dm fiat "uh the spirits are mad it doesn't work lol"
option 4, like to like (like the ancients did it)
you bring a hurt human back to healthy by bringing them closer to a healthy human. Like calls to like, so, by manipulating the flow of reality, the healthy human helps heal the hurt human.
Youre a gay btw
Surely thats just a specific example of option 1: you are bound by the nature of the spell as its rules dictate it. You need to meet the specific conditions of the spell, and if you can't it doesn't work.
Does that mean casting a healing spell on anyone turns them into this?
Only if you do it repeatedly and using enough other different people as the healing 'base' that the person ends up becoming an average of the sample set over time.
>Adventuring parties slowly start resembling their respective healers
>To the point where they can pass for at least distant cousins, despite one being an Orc.
I would be curious what you think of the Palladium system.
Like any game system technically magic works exactly as written, but in the 'lore' of the rules, it's outright stated that a mage can only wield magic if he believes in the magic's effect.
So if someone doesn't believe in their ability to explode others with a thought or heal the wounded, no amount of mystical training will allow them to do so.
This is also part of why all mages in Palladium tend to be a little stuck up since not believing their own hype would in fact weaken them.
Would you consider that a case 1 only or would you say it's Case 1 and Case 2?
Why so mad, Brad?
Is it because no one likes your take on
Storyshitting?
what is this, a haiku?
>haiku is 5, 7, 5 stanza.
INT dump stat confirmed
Fire magic failing because the fire spirits are angry with your nation is kino
>it's specialized equipment as mentioned in previous posts
>they're for safety reasons because even if you can fix them, getting something in your eye sucks
>some things are easier to fix than others
>limitations on the magic; you need some 'good' tissue for the magic to work off of; you can fix a leg if the person has any good muscle, skin, bone, etc. in their body, but for less common tissue like eyes it's more likely that it's all bad
>it's just a local fashion trend
You can explain it in a dozen ways.
>things having a true nature/spiritual form/etc is 'boring' or like a computer
>magic is boring
No u
t. coder
GOOD MORNING SIR
Why do you complain about AI art when the sight of it prompts you to regurgitate the same meme over and over again. You might as well be an LLM yourself.
Needing glasses is not caused by sickness, it is caused by having stupid shaped eyeballs.
Fixing needing glasses is in the same category of body transformation as fixing someone's overbite.
>fatmind
But in all seriousness, this also raises the question of the personal biases of who wrote the spell. If elvish magic predates human magic because they are the older civilization, and humans likely learned their first magic spells from elves, would elvish healing magic have adverse affects used on humans if it assumes by default that the healing target is an elf? Would it 'heal' their ears to points and other such 'fixes'?
Again, this is coding bullshit where "magic" performs a function. I don't need to explain to you why non-mystical magic is extremely fricking gay and sticks out like a sore fun outside of video games.
>I don't need to explain to you why non-mystical magic is extremely fricking gay and sticks out like a sore fun outside of video games.
Actually, you do. I've never once heard a valid explanation for why magic is better when both the characters in the story and the reader outside of it have no idea how it works because it follows exactly zero rules and cannot be predicted or reproduced under any circumstances.
If your setting has actual mechanics behind spells then it's exactly what you're complaining about. If not then either it's a setting where magic is not easily available to mortals, or you don't play games.
And even outside of tabletop games, the stereotypical wizard is someone who has tomes of magic outlining the precise methods to cast spells and rituals, with countless hours spent secluded in their towers performing research and crafting new spells. You can still have the "mystic" element of magic, but the moment you start putting spells on tomes or scrolls you start turning it into a science.
Ding ding ding, this man gets it.
You, the audience, might not know how the magic works. But it's insane to claim that the magical scholar with a library full of tomes is as ignorant of the rules of magic as you are. Otherwise, what do you think is in all of those books?
Pretty much. It's why there is no actual distinction between magic/bending/ki/nanomachines unless it's given in-universe context. Any power that requires suspension of disbelief and ignorance on the reader's part is functionally "magic".
A wizard may not knows EVERYTHING about how magic works (or he's probably the God of Magic at that point), but he knows enough to work with it, get consistent results, experiment, and perhaps develop new spells. This whole idea about "to be mystical magic must be unpredictable" is fricking moronic, no myth involving magic has had it as something absolutely arbitrary and every nutjob to have written a famous grimoire has detailed instructions for performing spells/rituals and at least symbolic justification for every action taken.
For most of history, magic was what we consider science now. They just had not established a need for peer-review yet. Sir Isaac Newton was a practicing sorcerer who only codified physics as mathematics so he could maybe finally get his spells to work. Magic and science were always joined at the hip, even back when it was called hermeticism and alchemy instead of science yet. Literally every bit of icongraphy and symbolism associated with wizards, down to symbols of moons and stars on pointing hats of people living in towers, comes from ancient scholars convinced that the world ran on rules and by learning them they could acquire control and power. Or at least useful tricks and better beer.
To add to your point, Renaissance tome "Magia Naturalis" literally lists cooking, perfume making, metallurgy, optics and physics experiments as part of its collection of it's twenty books of natural magic. It's also worth pointing out that the author of Magia Naturalis did in fact make a point of separating knowledge of the secrets of the natural world from dealing with evil spirits, so he did believe that there were still things separate from just understanding the creation. He talked about them rather dismissively though.
Yeah. To our ancestors, they lived in a world where both things were true. Some things you could control with knowledge that seemed like magic, and then there was the domain of spirits and gods and shit which you didn't have any direct way to deal with but you still took as true because only a fool tempts Poseidon.
And when you have a bunch of stuff you don't have rational explanations for yet, so it gains a supernatural cause instead. IIRC it was in the middle of Australia where there was a cursed as frick ravine that everyone around there knew 'do not go there, evil spirits live there, they will suck out your soul and you will die'. Due to the natural geography of the region, the ravine just naturally accumulates carbon monoxide leeching out of the ground. You go down there and you'll be dead in minutes as you run out of oxygen and pass out and suffocate without warning.
The locals didn't know what carbon monoxide was. They had no way to detect a colorless, odorless gas. They just knew that this was the place that kills you, and evil spirits was as good an explanation as any.
Well, are you unable to do so? You can back up your opinion and justify your position, can't you? You wouldn't start an argument online in defense of a position you don't even understand yourself, would you?
92229467
How is this thread different from the "wizard wheelchair miracle" thread
(You)
>good day sciencetist, please shoot lazers into my eyes to correct my vision
>okay sir
>good day magician, please cast heals into my eyes to correct my vision
>um ackshully being born with defective lens is a genetic issue and would not be fixable with magic because every time someone casts a heal spell I'll need to ask myself why it doesn't turn black people white
Is /tg/ seriously this moronic?
> anon: all magic should be strange and mystical!
> also anon: What do you mean that magic doesn't give results at least as reliable and good as refined scientific techniques?
It just sounds needlessly pendantic. If the healer said "I am casting a shape changing spell to alter your eyes" would there be any push back?
Tyr is 100% going to smite any of his clerics that go around healing blindness
Why would he?
how could justice work if it was not blind?
Justice being blind doesn't mean you need some random kid on the street being blind, even if he's got an alliterative name.
Not from me at least. Its also worth pointing out that I never claimed that healing magic can NEVER fix congential defects, just that its not something you should *assume* healing magic can do because under many popular interpretations of how healing magic functions it wouldn't work that way. And for good reason, because if magic can cure that kind of issue then you start snowballing into territory that makes settings unrecognizeable in short order. At that point, if the 'natural' state of the body doesn't matter and healing magic is a general 'make you better' cure-all, at what point does Cure Light Wounds just outright reverse aging and keep you young as long as you keep getting it cast on you often enough? Its only a couple steps removed from 'healing magic can cure problems you were born with', and to prevent it you need to make SOME arbitrary distinction of what magic can or cannot do in the middle.
Nah, I can accept that. I'd probably ask for a Medicine check to not frick it up or something, but I'd allow it.
Yes, it would bother me when every other example of shape changing magic in the system is an ongoing magic effect that has a limited duration, can be dispelled, shows up on the radar of anyone with second sight and so on...
It's almost exactly like when Pathfinder 2e added a level 7 potion to the core rules that instantly and permanently alters your sex, because it's inclusive and empowering I guess. Stick to the implied rules of your own setting, homosexuals! If I want to turn into an animal or disguise myself as another person then the duration is measured in minutes.
>Is /tg/ seriously this moronic?
Yes. In the absence of a system to talk about, your average /tg/ frickwit will rely entirely on their idiotic biases.
Science is not Magic and Clark Ashton Smith is a punk b***h.
>>good day sciencetist, please shoot lazers into my eyes to correct my vision
>>okay sir
>alright now use that same laser to make my AIDS go away
>well I don't see why not
Brandon Sanderson is a blight on the hobby and fantasy as a whole.
Morons who whine about magic having understandable rules on a balinese shadow puppetry forum are a bigger one
Magic in my system works because every person is an imaginary character in the mind of god (me) and because they are god (me) they (I) can change reality (in my head) however they (I) see fit.
>well yeah i could heal my eyesight, but i dont need to. those glasses are purely for fashion.
I don't know or care but there's a good reason for you to fricking have a nice day for posting AI "art" outside of your garbage containment thread.
Blame google images
I'd gladly use a non-AI image of a spellcaster wearing glasses if it wasn't for the dead internet making image search impossible to use.
She's wearing earrings; do they need to be hearing aids to justify why she's wearing them?
Is the necklace a pacemaker?
What accessory is necessary to cure your moronation?
>my glasses have round frames
This is a good enough reason for anyone to wear glasses
How hard is it to just make it a fashion statement? Jesus frick give the b***h some character.
>yeah I wear fake glasses, it's called fashion baby!
>yeah I ride a fake wheelchair, it's called fashion baby!
Yes. Make characters actually quirky in the controversial way instead of the "please like me way".
>a wheelchair swashbuckler
>on a large oceangoing ship
probably the funniest fricking thing I have seen all week
He's waiting to one-up anyone who tries a Princess Bride style "I was never really left-handed" maneuver.
>the Virgin Bonettis defense
>the Chad Agrippa
Yea, that's what I was thinking, if wheelchair adventurers were a real thing than this would happen all the time. He sits in the chair to enjoy the enhanced mobility (if it's a D&D wheelchair it's better than legs), then he leaps out of the chair to sneak-attack.
Sometimes people question if he's actually disabled, but he just accuses them of prejudging him for his fiendish ancestry and that shuts them up, no one wants to be a bigot.
Eye protection when brewing potions.
Also, I'm still mad about that bait and switch.
At some point you're going to be in the middle of nowhere with nothing better to cast your 4th level spell on.
Also I was going to point out that regeneration doesn't fix congenital problems but the thread has already gotten way funnier than that.
This is a veiled combat wheelchair thread isn't it?We haven't had one in a long time
But I'm probably overestimating OP and it's actually just botspam