Name a bigger Mary Sue.
 Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
 Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
Name a bigger Mary Sue.
Name a bigger Mary Sue.
Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
>Lost two Pokemon
Nah
Leon
He got clapped by Eternatus, can't be one
he's pants with directions and tried to catch eternatus with a pokeball. I think he is a moron that just happens to be good at battles
So he's PokeGoku?
SUGEEEEE ASH CHAN! WAKU WAKU!
morons not knowing what the frick a mary sue is, they always get minor flaws that aren't real drawbacks
This, Leon is a textbook Mary Sue because the universe bends itself just to suck him off, nobody else even comes close
>he's pants with directions
It's just a "cute" and harmless flaw to make him look even better. He suddenly knew how to navigate the Slumbering Weald when the plot has called for it.
>because the universe bends itself just to suck him off
When?
>This, Leon is a textbook Mary Sue because the universe bends itself just to suck him off, nobody else even comes close
Lmao Cynthia is way worse than him in that regards. Remember that he lost badly to Eternatus, if he were as dicksucked as you say he could've easily catched him but that didn't happened.
Cynthia got two ancestors in PLA, a game which only convoluted the lore of the series
Also the anime had powerwanked her as the strongest dragon trainer despite only owning one. Has textbook harmless Mary Sue "weaknesses" as being bad with cleaning and having a hard time choosing ice cream flavors. She's the real Pokémon Mary Sue.
Good thing her whiny autistic fanbase is powerless to undefeated uncontested Leon sama
Stop falseflagging with my husband's picture.
That's not Mary Sue shit that's Boba Fett shit.
>if he were as dicksucked as you say he could've easily catched him but that didn't happened.
>H-He failed once so that means all the other things don't count!
LMAO
And how convenient of you to forget that Leon beat base Eternatus and "only lost to him" because he was protecting (you) and Hop from Eternatus maxing.
And by the way, even if you will say >d-doesn't count, Leon went and caught Eternatus anyway in Masters.
Leon is a Mary Sue. And I don't mean in the sense Leon "fans" mean which is just thinly veiled seething over people liking a competent woman in Cynthia over Leon. I mean in the actual sense of the term where entire narratives are distorted around Leon to prop him up.
Leon is repeatedly said to be undefeated by anyone in everything he appears in. Raihan exists just to further prop up Leon (he's Champion-material but he stands no chance against Leon, look at how great that makes Leon!). Hop, SwSh's primary rival, is Leon's little brother just so he can keep going on about Leon and how he wants to be like him, which is why Hop is a trainer at all. Sonia's backstory is how she was a childhood rival of Leon who couldn't compare and so dropped out of the Gym Challenge. Leon gives you and Hop the starters over the Professor and gives you both the endorsement to actually participate in the Gym Challenge at all. Leon teaches you how to catch Pokemon. The goal of you and all your rivals throughout SwSh is to become Champion, aka, beat Leon, and it's far more explicit and important in SwSh than in any other game. The ultimate goal of the anime right now is "beat Leon", and the main reason Ash is even participating in the World Tournament is because he looks up to and wants to fight Leon. Leon saves you from Slumbering Weald, the labyrinth mythical forest, despite supposedly being bad at directions. Leon saves the day in other instances where you or someone else could have. Leon is Rose's trump card against Eternatus, and this is pretty much the only time Leon struggles and fails against anything before you beat him. Leon is stated to have been Mustard's best student. Leon's ace is Charizard over an actual Galar native Pokemon just to promote him further. The Twilight Wings mini-series' overarching plot is about a boy who loves Leon and wants to see him battle. Galar worships this fricker and the ground he stands on. (cont.)
You can't even get away from Leon in the postgame. Leon takes over Rose Tower and turns it into the Battle Tower, and is the tower boss as well as the only trainer of interest in the whole damn thing. Leon takes over Rose's position as League Chairman, and they make it a point to show him being better at it than Rose, especially since he also sets up the Galarian Star Tournaments. They don't even let Leon losing Champion status affect him much, as people say he's livelier running the Battle Tower than he was as Champion.
This is obscene. Leon is by far and away the most important character in SwSh and in the current season of the anime, all to the detriment of other characters, whose flaws don't matter, who only fails against what might as well be an act of god and the game protagonist. Well, do we get an interesting, grand character out of all this character shilling? No, we get an utter fashion disaster whose personality is being Champion, having a Charizard and being bad at directions (except when it's important to the plot which means it's a flaw that doesn't actually mean anything). Fan-fricking-tastic. There's also little reason to believe why Leon is the greatest trainer of all time. They tell us he is, but they don't show it. Nothing he has or does is especially interesting, strategic or smart, even compared to regular trainers, let alone other Champions. As far as I know, Leon's the best trainer ever because he can use type advantage, something the toddler I fought on Route 2 can do. So why do people like this guy? I think it's revealed in the projections of Leon worshippers - what they accuse Cynthia fans of; because they want to frick him or see him frick another, because they like him being a Mary Sue, and/or because of power level worship. Maybe out of sheer contrarianism. Nobody actually likes Leon for his character.
I like him for his character
Cynthia is male Leon
Leon is male Cynthia
tl;dr both fans are fricking stupid
>Cynthia is male Leon
>Leon is male Cynthia
anon... while I agree with you, am afraid you're fricking stupid too
Gary Stu
based
textbook definition of a gary stue
He deserves the world for some reason. No actual flaws, and the "flaws" he has are reasons for the characters to suck him off. At least we've seen Cynthia do her fair share of heroics apart from the obligatory champion moment that gets ripped from the game's storyline. We've seen Cyinthia and we know why she's respected.
Having a brand new character out of the blue, that we've never seen before, be the literal best of the world and better than all the champions that have demonstrated their capabilities throughout the series is just bad. Feels like a Dragon ball problem.
Would agree with you if early Chloe wasn't a foil to his antics, and have him grow as a character somewhat
Not a gary stue, I can sort of see the fact his flaws are barely present, he's not the stubborn spiteful child he was in gens 1-2, but I think he's plenty flawed, and everyone is nice to him because he's a child, although. still gets tested as a trainer.
>At least we've seen Cynthia do her fair share of heroics apart from the obligatory champion moment that gets ripped from the game's storyline.
You forgot that he got hospitalized because he protected Hop and MC from Eternatus' explosion besides failing to catch it on top of lowkey getting tired of being into the spotlight, as pointed out by other characters. His friendship with Sonia got strained over the years too. Twilight Wings, that Evolution episode and sprinkles in the game dives into his character besides his "m-muh champion" persona.
>Other media different from the Ashnime
???
Game Leon is slightly more fleshed out I'll give you that, especially if you consider Twilight Wings and Evolution to be part of the game's cannon, (idk why would you considering how Leon looked in that one episode lol), but we're talking about the ashnime right? OP and the posts right below are about it.
If you wanna argue that TW and Evolution are part of the ashnime, that's different. Personally I think they're very different stories and cannon, but I'm willing to hear you out.
Ashnime usually treats its characters badly but it did gave Leon some nice bits: the mini -but rushed- Darkest Day arc, then the baking episode and the time that he went training with Ash, that also gave us insight about what he felt about what he considers his first major loss (about Eternatus) and his concerns about what future might hold for him. Plus Sonia disclosed there that as a kid, Leon didn't had friends because he spent most of his time taking care of his little brother and helping around his house until he met his Charmander, and that helped him expand his world. It's not as much if you consider the other media but it's something else.
>it did gave Leon some nice bits
That's my problem, it's only itty bitty pieces, he's barely a character, got as much backsotry as the one-episode randos that appear while being arguably THE MOST important figure in THE WORLD,
I'd be okay if he was a living goalpost that only gets mentioned towards the end, or a true king of the world that did things, at least some on-screen, that deserved that title. But the fact he's "better than everyone", treated as such since day 1 and also a living goalpost character-wise feels like a writting problem, especially since we also see characters who have been around longer and we've seen doing great things. The only thing I can think of that could be an attempt at a solution to what I'm saying is that one time he beat Lance on-screen, but that's it, he fricks up in the whole eternatus incident, and the next thing he does, pretty much a season later, is bake a fricking cake.
If they were going to add a champion of the world, they should have made it someone who acted the part, he's only champion of the world because every character tells us that but we never see it!
Well it's not like you can expect a lot from the pokémon anime out of all things, and especially when it comes on how to handle their characters. You're honestly better off to have the other media as a complement if you care about certain trainers. All I'm saying is that fandom is really unfair towards Leon but there's not so much to be done in regards when the main anime fricks him up as well but alas.
>You're honestly better off to have the other media as a complement if you care
true
>fandom is really unfair towards Leon
I disagree, frick that guy, hope he stays mad and hat-less at the battle tower
You're free to have your own opinions and so are I. Have a good day, anon.
Sleep well knowing you're the only leongay I respect
Every Champ is a May Sue except for Alder.
People don't know what a Mary Sue is
Mary Sue also applies for plot reasons. That's why Ash is also a Gary Stu because he has to sell pokemon merch and has to be a hero for little children. He will win.
Ash is not a Gary Stu, he has too many flaws even when he's a great trainer. Even in Journeys he had it tough to beat Bea and Koharu doesn't give a frick about him, so he's not loved by everyone.
Alder is unironically the best champ
Goh
>almost lost to a jobber
>Mary Sue
If anything she's being disrespected by the anime
lost
why are you lying, iristard?
>lost 2 of her pokemon
>had to use mega against a gimmickless opponent
>gimmickless
>having an emotional connection to your pokemon is a gimmick
My favorite Cyncel cope
irishomosexual cope
This only means she fought with 10% power beerus style. Once she goes wild, Leon will shit in his pants and he will use his cape to wipe away the enema her Garchomp will give to him.
?
>>lost 2 of her pokemon
>a 30% Horn Drill
>Chomp undamaged, meanwhile Haxorus dead
>gimmickless
moron
How can Cynthiagays look at this image and still think today was a win for them
Iris got development, Cynthia still hates and tortures her pokemon
It's not torture. They are winners, her pokemon could not be happier. Anything else is just loser's cope.
>How can Cynthiagays look at this image and still think today was a win for them
Because Shitris lost LMAO
Obsessed
Maybe if Cynthia wasn't so boring you could get enjoyment in other ways
What's wrong with torture? This is why Paul, Tobias and Cynthia are peak trainers.
>What's wrong with torture?
Amen
Cynthia did mention in the anime she was a lot like Paul in her early years.
This is setting up the reveal that Cynthia is just Volo in drag. She's going to be Ash's final opponent since she was literally chosen by Satan himself.
Volo is old and busted by the time Pocket Monsters J is set, so gets defeated in the semis.
>old
He's immortal
>How can Cynthiagays look at this image and still think today was a win for them
Cynthia didnt need super special snowflake battlebond (dragon version) powers to stomp Iris 🙂
This. TrAshnime will be severely punished by game fans. Unless they forgot what happened in the aftermath of BURASTO BAAN, they will keep diarespecting Cynthia. And eventually they will literally see their studio up in flames just like what happened to KyoAni. You don't mess with Jap fans
Ash
Ash
doesn't he get trashed in Indigo cuz Charizard didn't obey him?
>perfect beauty
>perfect personality
>perfect IV/EV team
>champion at her prime
>also super smart archeologist
>also born in a super special town
>can cure psyduck's headache
is there anything this character can't do?
>is there anything this character can't do?
she is bad at cleaning her room due to all the research papers and stuff
takes 15 minutes to choose ice-cream flavor
the classic mary sue "flaws"
>she is bad at cleaning her room due to all the research papers and stuff
>takes 15 minutes to choose ice-cream flavor
I can fix her
Don't forget she has a special bloodline
Won’t lie, I actually loved Shirona when she first came out, but over the years it’s like too much exposure and fan worship has turned me off from her.
The only thing she's good for is off-model fanart of her being a pokemon prostitute.
low test npc mentality
There is nothing more NPC than being a first female champion gay
NPC tier mentality is liking Cynthia though
Yeah me too. I feel like if many people like something, it loses its value. That's why I eat shit instead of real food, I think the latter is pretty overrated and worshipped
Tons of people admit they like Pikachu, but because it’s always forced in their face, they feel more compelled to go for other electric types instead.
Shirona is fine, but I want some variety, not just the same character over and over and over because “MOMMYsorryMOMMYsorry”
Cynthia was a shitty character from the start though.
>also born in a super special town
Can you give me a refresher on this? I know she keeps her home a secret when you talk to her but wasn't it just somewhere in Unova? Hardly seems special to me
Literal birthplace of Arceus or something to that effect
It's actually never stated where she's from. We just know that her grandparents live in sinnoh and she comes to visit them sometimes.
She has no emotional bonds with her Pokemon.
proved in snek thread 10 mins ago
You know who has?
Even if Haxorus toughed it out so she wouldn't cry, the sheer difference in power between the two wouldn't be enough to win.
It's funny how this battle basically revealed her as being not too different from Paul. It's ironic because she criticized him for his training style while feeling largely indifferent towards her own mons.
No, that’s just you not understand the writing in the kid’s show. Her understanding that her Pokémon can no longer fight before them actually falling says a lot about how much she knows her Pokemon. And she still ends up thanking them for battle anyways.
Made her evil ancestor's dream come true by meeting Arceus without even trying and didn't even care as much as he would've had
Can’t. I hate this boring character and her fanatics so much
Iris
> Max whole character establishes that in the animeverse that 10 year old age minimum is exists for very good reason. He's more knowledgeable than Ash but because he's 6 or 7 he's not mentally mature enough to handle being a trainer but Iris gets 100 battle win streak at 4 or 5
> higher empathy when it comes to a specific type of Pokemon evolves randomly into full on telepathy with Iris randomly able to visually see Dragonite's memories
> special lineage. Dragon Village
> tragic backstory. Excadrill won't listen her after evolving and she didn't like school
> poorly power ups. Axew acts like a baby but than busts out two super power moves shortly after fixing it's dragon rage issue
> goes from a more powerful misty to champion level off screen with no good explanation.
> Purdy clothing
> "not like other girls"
> acts like a b***h but other characters like her and we're supposed to root for her even though Langley was microscopically more of a b***h and we're supposed to laugh at Langley's failure
Not even close + didn't read + L
> Implying special snowflake superpowers are mary sueish
The absolute state of zoomers
>Max whole character establishes that in the animeverse that 10 year old age minimum is exists for very good reason. He's more knowledgeable than Ash but because he's 6 or 7 he's not mentally mature enough to handle being a trainer but Iris gets 100 battle win streak at 4 or 5
The 10 year old age minimum is stupid considering we had preschoolers use pokemon in the games since forever. Plus, Iris was actually mentored by a strong gym leader as opposed to some anime oc.
>higher empathy when it comes to a specific type of Pokemon evolves randomly into full on telepathy with Iris randomly able to visually see Dragonite's memories
Trainers having type associated abilities is nothing. I don't see any crying about Sabrina and Avery having telekinesis or the Shadow Triad having teleportation and camoflauging abilities. Ash even has Aura abilities but no one cares.
>special lineage. Dragon Village
So is Cynthia's lineage with her ancestors being directly involved with legendaries.
>tragic backstory. Excadrill won't listen her after evolving and she didn't like school
Thanks for pointing out how she can't even be a Mary Sue. The reason why Excadrill won't listen to her was because she was getting too wienery after her win streak and forced him into a battle he couldn't win. This is a character flaw and Mary sues can't have character flaws that don't make them look more lovable or endearing.
>poorly power ups. Axew acts like a baby but than busts out two super power moves shortly after fixing it's dragon rage issue
Ash and many other characters are guilty of this as well. That's just anime writing.
>goes from a more powerful misty to champion level off screen with no good explanation.
She was last seen training in Johto and that was years ago. People can change during that period of time and Alder wasn't a strong hurdle to overcome compare to other champions. If Ash can go from BW moron to SM Champion, why can't Iris?
>other shit
Irrelevant and just petty b***hing.
>The 10 year old age minimum is stupid considering we had preschoolers use pokemon in the games since forever. Plus, Iris was actually mentored by a strong gym leader as opposed to some anime oc.
She wasn't mentored until after she was revealed to be le prodigy. Anime lore does not equal game lore. If anything the games are stupid for having end game level 4 year olds
> trainers having type associated abilities is nothing
It is but it mutating into a fricking super power is bad writing. Ash was able to learn aura powers through the gloves and even then he doesn't have a good grasp of it. Sabrina's ESP is directly related to her type and something she always had. Where as Iris just randomly gets a superpower.
>that was years ago.
Not in universe. If Morrison came back and was stronger than every champion put together would that not be a little ridiculous?
>She wasn't mentored until after she was revealed to be le prodigy.
Being a prodigy =/= Mary Sue. Iris still had to grow as a trainer and clearly was shown to be flawed as a character. She even had moments when Ash and Cilan threw bants at her for laughs.
>Anime lore does not equal game lore. If anything the games are stupid for having end game level 4 year olds
It's more stupid to consider 10 year olds eligible to travel across regions alone without any certification or supervison.
>It is but it mutating into a fricking super power is bad writing.
Iris' Dragon empath shit is not a super power.Plus, it's something Iris always had in the anime and directly relates to dragons. It's how she calm down Dragonite and Hydreigon. It's not random.
>Not in universe. If Morrison came back and was stronger than every champion put together would that not be a little ridiculous?
So BW Ash suddenly got good and became a Alola champion in the span of one year? Or how about how Lance looks older than he was in the original anime? Or how about the fact that Kukui's wife, Burnett, had birth a baby and that baby grew a bit? Plus, you're being hyberbolic. Iris only beat Alder and Alder was a hobo that didn't take battles seriously in the anime. He even fell asleep mid-battle.
>It's more stupid to consider 10 year olds eligible to travel across regions alone without any certification or supervison.
I mean, it's pretty safe. Despite how much people wanna do the whole meme deathworld thing as long as you don't do something stupid most Pokemon will leave you alone or stop chasing you, and even Gyarados leave people alive.
>So BW Ash suddenly got good and became a Alola champion in the span of one year?
NTA but... Alola's and Unova's league are totally different and you know that. But at least with Ash we saw his progressopm, Iris became an off-screen champion without any foreshadowing (and this means that she defeated all 8 gym leaders, won the league, and then defeated Alder), If she had become a gym leader there would have been no complaints.
Ash was literally handed a mythical and a ultra beast. He would've lost without them.
>Evangelion reference at the end
have a nice day moron.
I never watched Eva dumbass.
How about Cousin Gohliver.
To be honest? The player.
I've been playing through Sword and at a certain point I kind of start to feel bad for how absolutely no one can beat me. At a certain point I started to seriously think Hop was going to kill himself. Hop right off a cliff or something.
Which, in fairness he should.
Fricking this. The biggest Mary Sue from Pokémon is us. I'm tired of playing every game and having every single NPC praise me saying that i am a super exceptional trainer and being literally unbeatable
>I'm tired of playing every game and having every single NPC praise me saying that i am a super exceptional trainer and being literally unbeatable
Because that's really who you are
There's a very fricked up thing in the games with how hard the gen 6 and later rivals get dunked on and how they cope. They basically have to fight against an MC who fundamentally cannot lose or fail. Hop basically is a tertiary character in his own life and if you okay Sword with it's lopsided exclusives he also gets burdened with the shittier wearing dog legendary.
Even kids start to see how disturbing it can get.
B/W was the only gen that handled that gracefully.
no it didn't. Ns a shit and your rivals suck. Barry mogs all three of them though.
That's the right answer.
I mean yes, it's expected that the player should be able to win everything, but Pokémon is one of the few RPGs where there is absolutely 0 threat for the protag. They never end up in a bad situation, they never fight an opponent that they can't beat in early game, everyone but the villains are your friends and so on.
You can lose to rival Blue in Pokemon RBY in early battles
I'm aware, but that means very little.
>ties your shitfu while going through narcolepsy episodes
Based!
Yellow from the manga
Almost made me drop the manga, what a one dimentional boring homosexual
she fricks her female garchomp
Iris.
Red
Literally impossible
And this b***h only became the poster shillchampion because sinnohfetuses couldn't beat a team that wasn't monoshit
Cope Pedogay.
Iris
>wants to be dragon master
>gets a free dragonite
>axew skips learning basic moves and learns giga impact on the fly
>starts with a powerful excadrill carry, didn't even need to do much to make it stop being b***hmade
>exclusively fights in local don george mario zepilini ravioli mini tournaments, relying on her dragonite and excadrill to carry
Alder has been a washed up pushover ever since his partner died, but even he would've put up a more believable fight
>Mary Sue
>losing
You have to always win to be a Mary Sue you fricking idiot
then Cynthia is not one, as she willl lose to Ash
>Mary Sue
God, you're moronic.
Irisgays still flailing around like monkeys?
She's a mary sue because of her fricking obnoxious fanbase. God, more like name a worse champion fanbase.
>name a worse champion fanbase.
Iris
Leon
Not even close.
Those fandoms are not even as big and obnoxious as Cynthia's. You can literally find Cynthiagays everywhere on the internet being loud and annoying about their "queen."
Leons gays are equally as obnoxious as Cynthia gays
Leongays exist only to shit on Cynthiagays. Cynthiagays exist to be annoying about their waifu since DP.
Leon unironically
Where is he bros? I wanted him to crush Ash again.
Too busy looking for a Legends Plate for his Arceus.
The player character in every pokemon game.
> be 10 year old kid
> everyone is your friend
> everyone comments how strong you are
> save the world
> catch a never before seen pokemon in a pokeball while the evil team had to develop a years long plan on how to control it
> become champion less than a day after getting your first pokemon.
>> catch a never before seen pokemon in a pokeball while the evil team had to develop a years long plan on how to control it
>> become champion less than a day after getting your first pokemon.
No and no, you never played the games
>ITT
Alain
Ash will mog her though
I cant. Biggest Mary Sue in pokemn..
The player character in any given Pokemon game
When are Iriscucks going to start the coping and start moving on?
it will be months
Iris it seems
But it didn't do anything, she didn't even shoot the final Dragon Pulse at Garchomp so i don't know what she expected to happen.
>But it didn't do anything
are you literally moronic
read the words
>she didn't even shoot the final Dragon Pulse at Garchomp so i don't know what she expected to happen.
She is not very good.
That doesnt mean she didnt use a power-up
Cope.
I don't get the obsession with Cynthia. She's barely a character and she's popular because of simps and nostalgia. No other Champion has that combination.
>But she's was h-hard
She was hard because you were young and stupid. Even then, She wasn't as hard as people meme her to be. I rolled her when I was a kid, just like everyone else in my neighborhood at the time.
>I don't get the obsession with Cynthia.
She is amazing + most other champions suck
*Every champion Sucks
With the exception of Gen 7 cause I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy being a Champion. Would've been cool to lose the champion to a challenger and try and gain it back.
THIS.
100% Facts
She was not that hard but was harder than Steven HGSS Lance by a small amount. She is loved this much because she is a woman simple as that. Look at the reactions to her 'Lipstick' scene in the Masters 8. Every moronic twatter coomer gay were commenting how she was so hot etc. That's literally her only selling point. And TPC knows this well.
She is just cardboard as Leon
Isn't her weakest mon 5 to 10 levels higher than the strongest elite 4 mon?
I never got why people said she was hard. I fricking obliterated her although I did use Palkia because as a kid I didn't have the DERP NO LEGENDARIES HURR mentality. I fricking stomped Whitney first try too though so maybe most people are just fricking stupid.
She's popular because her team is filled with chads like Lucario, Milotic, and Garchomp while other champions use jobbers like Vanilluxe. Calling Cynthia easy is not an argument because Pokemon is easy in general, still stands above most champions. Name a harder champion, if you bring up a monotype shitter like Wallace I will laugh at you.
HGSS Lance, Superboss Steven and Red.
>all weaker
No, not at all
Non-stab ice moves does not kill Lance's dragonites easily not to mention Gyarados Aerodactyl and Charizardinoooo who outspeeds almost all of the pokemon you throw at him.
>Steven
Skarmory is literally a toxic staller and deploys spikes, claydol fricking sets up reflect and light screen from the get go and metagross is scary as frick with gen 3 type physical special attacks, he was impossible without wanting to kys.
>Red
Red was literally impossible to defeat with normal walkthrough exp gaining, you needed to grind like a moron in mt. silver while others were possible to defeat in normal playthroughs
>impossible to defeat with normal walkthrough exp gaining, you needed to grind like a moron
I would probably say that most players would only be able to beat Platinum Cynthia on their first time. In DP she casually out levels everything before her, BW/B2W2 she's 20 levels higher than what you would beat the game with and in BDSP her entire team has items, Hidden Abilities, Good IVs, and EVs that would BTFO people who haven't been keeping up with them.
>in BDSP
Defeated pretty easily n BDSP with normal playthrough just battle trainers
>HGSS Lance
Jobber. Turd movesets and many pokemon sharing weaknesses.
>Superboss Steven
Jobber. Shitmons like Aggron and the fossils.
>Red
An actual answer, but he's the most loved male champion anyway.
Even then, the starters and Lapras weren't all that great in Gen 4, the only thing Red really has going for him is that his team's levels mogs everything else in the game.
ironically wallace was one of the harder ones.
>Ash
>Iris
If she weren't a girl, she would have lost like Lance. Just watch, Steven will job hard. This tournament caters to waifu degenerates. You can't have one of your top waifus losing early.
Cope
>canonically jobs to the protagonist
Me sucking on Cynthia's toes
>UMM, AKCHUALLY I BEAT CYNTHIA WITH MY TEAM I COPYPASTED FROM SMOGON SO SHE'S NOT HARD AT ALL!!!
Why do you homosexuals keep acting like if 99% of Pokemon players are not moronic?
BDSP came not fricking long ago. You saw the HORDES of normalgays getting curbstomped by Cynthia. And this was the game with forced amie on your Pokemon.
For the average Pokemon player an enemy NPC with an actually balanced team that they cannot sweep with unga bunga monotype IS hard.
You are not the main character of the universe, moron. Your experience is not the only valid one out there.
I tried to beat bdsp cynthia in set mode, no healing items, no friendship bonuses (thanks to medicinal herbs) and I literally couldnt. My team was too shit and underleveled to beat her fair and square.
Sound like a skill issue, or brain
If you got a friendship bonus during her battle, used switch mode or used any healing item, you did NOT beat her.
No friendship, set mode and no items, curbstomped her. Bertha was miles harder than her.
>Smogon
I was a fricking kid that didn't even know what Natures did. Beat her first try on Pearl.
Same, or maybe on the second I think. Idk it's been 14 years kek
The DP Elite 4 has one of the most brutal level curves. Cynthia is not too long after the final Barry fight.
Mary Sue only applies to main characters, there is no problem with the final boss being powerful.
Also she isn't, she's just hyped up by internet memers. I beat her as a moronic 14yo with a Palkia and a high level Torterra.
>Using a Box Legendary
You didn't beat her
Look at all this character nuance that you can't discuss about the worshipped and lauded Cynthia that constantly gets headcanoned as the strongest and sucked off constantly. Makes you think about which one might be a mary sue
Ash
A bigger Mary Sue than Shirona ? Maybe Hikari ?
I fricking love Cynthia so much (and love fricking Cynthia too)
Cynthia only beat Iris who doesn't use any regional gimmicks and will lose to Ash.
Cynthia's a mary sue because she has mega evolution despite not having one in BDSP.
I don't think you know what mary sue is anon
That's a consequence of her whole character and the way everyone around her treats her.
Is different from having a power up.
You should be more concerned with how everyone is Dynamaxing when it is only a side-effect of Eternatus being in Galar.
Gengar
>Iris is the REAL Mary Sue because of her super speshul secret power!!!
>Power doesn't actually make her win
I don't think you guys know what a Mary Sue is
Nobody does
Gary Stus count? if so other two champions on the Masters 8 are worse Sues than her, one due shilling one due plot armor
My Shirona