What is the best option to get into/try the Diablo-like ARPG genre? Should I:
>buy pic related
>play Path of Exile
>pirate Diablo 1
>pirate Grim Dawn
>pirate Titan Quest
I'm open to suggestions what do you recommend?
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Always online single player games can suck a dick.
PoE is the only ARPG worth playing
I have heard it's the type of game where you always need a wiki/guide open
Not unless you are a complete moron.
Kind of, it's the kind of game where the more you learn about it the worse it gets because unless you're planning on playing non-trade and have A LOT of free time you're just going to feel like you're doing something wrong and making extremely slow progress.
The game is so bloated that the top players literally just ignore 70% of the content, and the usual noob trap is to do everything. Doing everything leads to very slow progress and slow farm speed.
In terms of build depth and such there's no comparison in ARPG's, but they also play very similar with only a few archetype exceptions which often aren't even meta, so the depth is somewhat an illusion.
I had to look up in the reply chain to see if you were talking about Diablo or any other ARPG
>poe
>worth
More like poe's man diablo 3.
try grim dawn
ignore this anon, poe IS worth trying but it's also filled with microtransactions and made for ADD kids
least fun argp I ever played, along with titan quest.
I don't like PoE talent tree, the best way to play is to always look up a guide or you end up gimping yourself
you can easily respec the entire tree with cheap currency items
>what if we took everything terrible about diablo 2 and made it a game
no
diablo 2 is the goat. path of exile has an incredibly bloated and autistic end game, so if you really care about that then go with POE since diablo 2 doesn't have much of an end game beyond running a handful of areas. however, if you just want an fun, smooth, well designed experience with incredible music then get diablo 2.
diablo 2 is a completely solved game, so you won't find anyone who wants to actually play
so just pirate something, grim dawn is very boring but at least it has a nice look to it
its like a worse titan quest
you need to ridiculous amounts of time / luck to reach a true "solved" state in diablo 2. just playing casually with self found loot is the intended experience
I'd say pirate Diablo 1 first since it's a classic and genre forming. Just keep in mind how old it is and might need compatibility fixes to work on modern os.
d2 single player hardcore
>he plays necro
you didn't beat the game
You don't have to buy D2R. You can pirate it for PC. Look up D2R zclient crack
torchlight 2
most friendly for new comer of the genre
Based
if only the game was.
Grim Dawn is basically just modernized Diablo 2 and a very easy game to get into if you have no particular preferences or tastes in the genre yet
Diablo 3 is actually fine too. Game is shallow as frick and most of the complaints about it are absolutely true, but the overall product is a solid introduction to the genre or a good way to kill time if you aren't too particular about your ARPGs
Just play Grim Dawn. It's a little less of a right-click fest, and it's still got the best balance of a solid campaign, okayish endgame, decent build variety, and satisfying progression.
>Path of Exile
Glorified right-click fest. It's less of a game and more a dopamine pump of bright colors
>Titan Quest
Worse version of Grim Dawn
>Diablo 1
Yeah its foundational to the genre, but its still incredibly dated. If you really wanted to trace the ARPG genre all the way to its roots, play this first so that later games don't spoil you with revolutionary concepts like auto-gold pickup and renewable health pots
why would you unironically recommend grim dawn over diablo 2? if he loves diablo to then sure grim dawn is a logical next step but as the first game??
Grim Dawn sucks
I like it, it's fun
nah. you suck.
@You
>Grim yawn
yikes
>buy diablo 2 remastranned
>pirate good diablo
Diablo 2 is in archive dot org
Where my last epoch chads at
Honestly grimdawn tickled my pickle more than D2 ever did. Never had to grind a zone 10,000 times for a single crafting component. Just pirate it and have fun. It is, of course, better with friends but cest la vie. Oh, and grimdawn has a total rework to turn it into diablo 2, with all the key items and crafting pulled over, most of grimdawns stuff, and all the classes to boot. You can play a double necromancer which gets hard with only one hand.
Reign of Terror I think? The mod is totally free.
you've made this thread daily for a week straight OP, if spending $40 is this difficult for you to pull the trigger on, just don't do it and play the free games instead.
Pirate Diablo 1. Then Diablo II afterwards. Any ARPG after Diablo II just intensifies certain aspects of the game like items/magical items and enemy mobs being thrown at you.
Diablo 1 is more about making due with what you find in the cathedral and wading your way down.
Grim Dawn all the way. It's a better Diablo than Diablo
I want to love ARPGs but I hate build autism
Path of exile is free so just try that and see if you like it.
Diablo 1 is old and if you're a zoomer I wouldn't recc it
Grim dawn is fine not great
Titan quest is fine not great
Diablo 2 is beloved by boomers but honestly just gets btfo'd by PoE
Torchlight 1-3 also in the fine but not amazing camp
Diablo 3 is fun only at end game, the leveling experience is fricking awful unless you get boosted by a bored geared out guy and the build variety is significantly worse than most other Arpgs
>Diablo 3 is fun only at end game
Luckily it takes less than a day to hit max level even with a completely fresh character.
Just play Diablo 1 and 2, they're actual games and not gameplay-loop only ripoffs made for gambling addicts
>Just play Diablo 1 and 2, they're actual games and not gameplay-loop only ripoffs made for gambling addicts
I played Diablo 1 the other day and the only time I ever had to put ANY thought into what I was doing was getting some fire resistance gear for the final area
all three areas before that I was just right clicking enemies and picking shit up
> I was just right clicking enemies and picking shit up
That sounds more like modern ARPGs than Diablo 1 though. In Diablo 1 and 2 you can't just right click hordes of enemies and watch them explode before you from the very start of the game. You will frequently encounter enemy groups that you will have to kite around or retreat to get more potions from town etc. Especially in D1, you would die almost immediately if you just ran into an enemy group like you would in say Grim Dawn or D3. Obviously once you get really good gear, it does become kinda brainless, like every other ARPG ever made.
Diablo 1 starts brainless, and remains brainless until you get to Hell where you have to kite enemies or get some resist gear. You literally play the game for 5 hours or so just clicking enemies with absolutely nothing to challenge you (except maybe the Butcher). These games are a joke, all of them are just addictive gambling simulators
play immortal
you have to actively dodge shit to not die
pulling to many normal mobs might result in a quick death too
>play that one game in which all progression comes to a complete halt after a while unless you spend thousands of dollars for MTX
are you fricking insane?
I mean, either you have never actually played the game or you are intentionally lying about it. Unlike games like D3 where you immediately start out as a death machine, D1 has actual character progression where you feel like a weakling in the beginning and get stronger as you progress. Pretty much anything can kill you in the beginning of D1 if you aren't careful and because you can't run, you have to be careful when to engage and when to get back. If D1 feels brainless to you, then you could play games like D3 and PoE in a coma.
I played the game. I played it on release, and I played it just a few months ago. I played a warrior and all I had to do was hit enemies and occasionally potion. The only time I had to start making decisions was when I got to Hell, and those were extremely basic, basically boiled down to I just have to wear the right gear to fight the final boss. I don't know what game you played bro, this isn't a brag about skill, the game is brainless, perhaps you need to go back and play it
You won't stand around and click through an acid spitter pack.
Diablo 1 and 2. Then ignore everything else and just play a Souls game, which are the true spiritual successors to Diablo
Souls games are nothing like D1 or D2.
But they are, they are very similar. Dark Souls is more similar to Diablo than Diablo 3.
No they aren't you moron.
But they are
You were fooled into thinking isometric = gameplay
Obviously he talks about inspiration for those games. D1 is very "Souls like". In reality souls like is just 3D dungeon crawler. Both games takes inspiration from roguelikes/dungeon crawlers, old cRPGs. Diablo 2 originally was planned to be permadeath-only game with more pure rogue elements but they abandoned such idea.
>Weapon classes
>Spells come from found items
>Gritty dark atmosphere
>Loose questing
>Enemies are fought only 1 or 2 at a time
>Classic sword and board rpg
Dark souls is basically just a 3D Diablo with a different setting and more modernized combat. It's the next logical step in gameplay advancement for an RPG like Diablo. Only a fricking moron would think Diablo is only Diablo because it's top down isometric. Much like the developers who made Diablo 3, the most backwards, stagnated afterbirth not worthy of being called a sequel.
The loot, class and skill system in Dark Souls is completely different though.
I agree that it's a better direction to take the combat though.
No, not really. The classes in Diablo were as fluid as the ones in souls games. You're not locked into skills or stats.
In Diablo 1 you had hard stat caps depending on the class, so I believe no more than 50 Magic for a warrior outside of gear giving additional attributes and the wizard was capped at 45 hard points into strength. For most of Diablo 2 until later rune patches you mostly had your classes skills outside of very bad charge based items from staves and wands which was introduced in LoD.
Obviously it's not exactly the same
But if you were going to take Diablo 1 and 2 and actually improve the gameplay through innovation, and actually move it into 3D like Zelda and Mario were, the souls games would be close to what you would get. Diablo 3 was degeneration.
No, it wouldn't. Maybe the evolution of King's Field, not Diablo.
That's simply not the case though.
What's the point in making up stuff we both know isn't true?
true
are you the same moron arguing dragons dogma is the same thing as diablo 2?
>Dark Souls is more similar to Diablo than Diablo 3
To Diablo than Diablo is to Diablo 3*
soulsdrones have brain damage
Path of Exile. Even with its current balance issues its still king of the genre and its F2P so you can just download it and play it right now. You only really need to spend actual money on it if you actually grow to really like the game and want to play it for long periods of time.
I can't imagine that you have played anything beside the big titles, if at all. And poe being f2p is only semi useful. Good for trying out the game, but if you like it, you are forced to invest money.
I mean, You're not right, but you're not really wrong..
The currency and other similar tabs are ridiculously useful. At least it's relatively cheap just to grab those.
Dungeon siege series
Unpopular opinion because these threads are filled with boomers with rose tinted glasses, play diablo 3 because it has the smallest learning curve and really quickly throws you into everything the ARPG genre has to offer.
Then if you like it, try experiment with path of exile or D2 for something with more depth
Wheras if you don't like it you probably won't like any of the other ones either.
D3 you have to log in to Blizzard spyware and pay money for it. Why not just play Path of Exile since its free?
because PoE is like jumping straight into the deep ocean without knowing how to swim
D3 is a far better intro to ARPG's than anything else because of how accessible they made it, and then you move from there to games with depth if you decide ARPG's are fun.
>because PoE is like jumping straight into the deep ocean without knowing how to swim
But the ocean is free. Why pay for swimming lessons in a kiddie pool filled with piss?
Yeah and you will also be forced to learn to swim while trying not to drown instead of being able to just relax and enjoy the kino
Also realistically if you dont buy at least the currency tab in PoE it becomes a really bad time so i wouldn't exactly call it free.
You're speaking from the experience of someone whos already played a lot of ARPG's laughing at filthy non-swimmers and then wondering why nobody new wants to come along
But again, you're comparing: Shitty game you have to pay for, vs a FREE game with a steep learning curve.
If he doesn't like D3 he lost both his money and his time. If he doesn't like PoE he only lost his time. Currency tab is not necessary for newcomers, the 4 stash tabs are just fine for new players. Currency tab becomes a necessity after you have like 20+ hours on the game and you're really addicted to it.
no its
Shallow but wide game with zero punishment for experimentation and lots of content vs deep game that expects you to already have all the abilities, meta builds and items memorized to be remotely competitive.
PoE is perfectly fine for nostalgiagays, boomers and autists, not new people trying out the genre for the first time
>that expects you to already have all the abilities, meta builds and items memorized to be remotely competitive.
We're talking about new players. By the time they reach red maps, they're no longer new and they're veterans at that point. You don't need a meta build to finish the campaign and get quite far with maps. Most builds hit the wall around lvl 92-94 and mid-tier red maps.
You're not finishing act 10 without copying a meta build on your first playthrough if you've never touched an ARPG before
And there's also that PoE feels like shit to play while leveling then suddenly gets awesome in the endgame after your build really starts coming online.
Meanwhile D3 is nonstop dopamine even from early levels and frontloads all the fun, and you only find out at max level that there's no substance afterwards.
>You're not finishing act 10 without copying a meta build on your first playthrough if you've never touched an ARPG before
Yes you are. Only pitfalls a newbie needs to avoid is building enough Life and capping Resists, thats all they need and people coming from Diablo 2 already know these pitfalls. Maybe anti-freeze and anti-bleed bottles as well.
>And there's also that PoE feels like shit to play while leveling then suddenly gets awesome in the endgame
No it doesnt. Your build starts ramping up around Act 3, each Labyrinth clear is a huge powerspike that further speeds things up mid-campaign. By the time you're in Act 6 you're already zooming through the game the same way you do in maps and endgame.
I've played D2 since I was a kid, PoE, Dungeon Siege 1-2, Titan Quest and the expansions, Torchlight 1-2, Grim Dawn and all its expansions and first two Sacred games. Diablo 2 used to be the king of the genre and the rest were fine games but the replay value was suspect. Path of Exile is like Diablo 2 if Blizzard never stopped making expansions for Diablo 2 after LoD but just kept going. And now after many years it has like 15+ expansions worth of content.
Thats why PoE just wins by default, theres no competition for the sheer amount of content the game has. Its Diablo 2 with 20+ expansions.
The genre needs a fricking shake up. I'm tired of poe doing the bare minimum, if at all, them holding features hostage until đ4 or eternity, the second class citizen western client vs the Chinese client, bullshit one shot eye rape diarrhoea, moronic time tax campaign, shallow and unnecessary complexity that is more masking, item level for example, and a lot more that I forgot. It's tiresome.
They have all the money in the world and they innovate jack shit. The gameplay currently can be reduced to pulling slot machines. I can hardly say that poe is the best in the genre if the gameplay deteriorates into this rather quickly.
>The gameplay currently can be reduced to pulling slot machines
But thats the entire genre. Name the diablo-clone arpg that isn't pulling slot machines. In Diablo 2 the only use for money at the endgame is just endlessly pushing that Gheed's Gamble button.
>Wolcen
>Shadows Awekening
From the top of my head. Both are more action oriented, probably. Don't get me started on other elements, like muh complexity. The topic issue is purely poe's 'pull the slot machine' combat.
Haven't played Darksiders Genesis and Din's Legacy yet. They are next on my list.
Crafting in Wolcen is literally slot machines, its the same shit PoE has. Pull the lever on the slot machine, the "crafts" are just there to either ensure certain mods, or to protect one or two mods you dont want re-rolled. But you're stilling using that slot machine.
I'm not talking about crafting. It's the combat that can be reduced to a slot machine. You pull the lever, clear the screen, collect your coins, or the game decides you lose in the blink of an eye. There is barely anything that amounts to combat in a traditional sense of exchanging hits, parrying, dodging, blocking and what not. It's a terrible game today.
You control the level of depth in gameplay in PoE. Play an elaborate skill combo build if you wish to set up conditions to your damage. If shit is too easy, take more risks and roll more dangerous map mods. And bosses in general have more elaborate mechanics in PoE than what they have in D3 or even Wolcen:
Maven alone has multiple different bullet-hell patterns, some specific projectiles leave health degen-slow areas on the ground so you have to manage that. Theres the Simon Says-memory game sections + final one with extra bullet hell patterns on top of the memory game. And the most complex one is the boss spawns the map bosses the player has allowed Maven to collect throughout him playing through different maps. If you feed Maven too hard map bosses, this entire bossfight might become too dangerous to complete altogether. So you have to get clever and only feed Maven the type of map bosses you feel are easy to beat.
This is all cool and fun, if everything wouldn't hit like a truck and blast you out of your chair. That meta morph homosexual that has black on black pixel sized projectiles that kill you in one go, the mini dragon bats popping up from blight that shoot gatling death lasers, and so on. Not taking risky mods means you can only do stuff a month into each league, or running blue maps ad infinitum. Spare yourself the 'le gid gud' reply if you intended to. It's a massive unfun slog that boils down to one shot, or get one shot, and I've made smite zerkers viable. To make the combat attractive again, they would have to slash monster damage in the millions. Otherwise, you are forced to go for defences exclusively. Groups can already circumvent half the bullshit through dedicated batteries, but for solo players, the game is pure aids.
Yeah but thats a different complain to "the combat is just clear screens with one button". I do hope they do some heavy nerfs on some of the Archnemesis bullshit on next League because current meta is very build restricting.
>accessible
This word gets used way too often. I started with D2 and had no issue getting into it. There’s a learning curve to making good endgame builds but you can respec so it doesn’t matter. There’s no reason to play anything other than D2 because D2 is the best
I'm gonna say none of them and hope D4 or POE2 turn out great
PoE 2 is just new campaign, improved graphics and some changes to socket systems. The base game will be the same.
Diablo 1 is my favorite Diablo, fricking kino. Played it for the first time last year, having played D2 a ton prior. PoE is pretty decent.
>Path of Exile
Be ready that you'll not going to like it/grasp it on the first time. Out of positives - once you'll grasp the mechanics it's more fun to construct your own builds rather than playing them.
>D2R
Although archaic it's a nice game in it's own regard. I'd suggest to get original D2:LoD and install Median XL mod on it. It's the most well known total conversion mod with heavy focus on endgame.
>Diablo 1
Nah. It's slow and old.
>Grim Dawn/Titan quest
It's quite meh for me. It feels very slow and deliberate, samey and bland.
Actually pirate Dungeon Siege 2 Broken world. Expansion in a licensing hell. Although not indepth as other games - ability to control multiple characters and power abilities with glorious gibs brought me joy all the way through.
PoE is shit after a 5+ year downward spiral
used to be the best, now it's not even worth trying
go Diablo 2
>Diabo 1 for 50 leafbux
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA just pirate those shits, Diablo 1 and 2 are neutered on battle net in current year and there's people still playing both so you don't gotta worry about that shit.
It's actually diablo 2 and 3. Diablo 1 is only being sold on GOG rn. It costs like 9.99, but it goes on sale for 7.99 a lot.
you are very dumb
PoE has gone to complete shit but it still has the best core gameplay in the entire genre
Just don't get autismo about the series and quit while you're ahead.
Pirate anything that Activision Blizzard makes, don't spend money on that bullshit. Path of Exile is a good option, but rather complex at times and it does require some forethought into proper builds. It's my favorite so far.
This is not really complex genre where you need flowcharts how to start
Don't because the entire genre is shit
PoE is great and really fun. Until you realize they wipe everything and rebalance shit and tack on new gimmicks every 3 months and if you’re not a no life autist who gets completely consumed by the game you’ll inevitably burn out of its constant cycle of turning to shit and making characters worthless every other update.
D2R is the best in the genre imo. The original game has near perfect mechanics and the updated visuals and sound also make it the most impressive game in the genre from a technical standpoint. Last Epoch is one to watch for as it develops it definitely has the most potential for a deep single player experience. Grim Dawn is Diablo 2 with extra quests and content but doesn’t accomplish the same sense of atmosphere and is lackluster in general in the design department.
i'm playing through titan quest for the first time, and i make a lobby so i could slay monsters with people. instead this guy joins, goes and kills who i'm guessing is the last boss of the act 3 or something because i got an achievement. and then he just dips. some spoiler dialogue starts playing. totally spoiled it for me, and it's completed in my quest log now, like 2 chapters ahead of where i am. the frick? i haven't saved for hours and I'm not doing all that over again.
>open up lobby in 20 year old game for anyone to join
>wtf someone joined and did a quest slightly ahead of me REEEE!!!
Dumb
yeah idk what i was thinking would happen. my first thought would be to ask the host to open a portal and i'd join them in whatever they were doing, but i was naive i guess.
D2 was good when it came out, now it's just slow shit jank. Unless you played it as a kid, you'll hate how slow it is and how it plays. Of course If you like old games and how they feel, go for D2.
Grim dawn is definitely more of a sequel to D2 than D3 was. Slow start but cool class combinations. Definitely worth checking out over D2 in 2022 if you dislike old games.
Titan quest like D2 should only be played if you are a fan of Arpgs and want to experience old school play style. Made by some of the same people who made grim dawn.
POE is a good free choice but it's a huge grind at the end. All the cool gear is behind a paywall. So your character will always look shit if you are f2p compared to someone who buys on the shop. Still it's free and does have a lot of systems to frick around with at endgame. Can feel overwhelming at first.
D3 is also decent for what it is.
There are few others like torchlight 2, van Helsing, Warhammer, victor vran, last epoch etc. But if you don't like any of the first 5, I wouldn't bother with others.
>All the cool gear is behind a paywall
You mean cosmetics are behind a paywall.
>D2 was good when it came out, now it's just slow shit jank.
KYS
D2 has perfect combat pace. POE shit because it's fricking ADHD fest
>those straight narrow insect caves in act 2
frick that shit game
Enter THE BONE
>D2 has perfect combat pace.
Yeah maybe for the year 2000 or if you like old school style. Most modern gamers would hate it compared to Arpg made today. Slow combat, looks like ass, bag space is shit.
What’s slow about it? Do you only play barb or something?
But Grim Dawn exist. It think it has even slower pace compared to D2.
>looks like ass
D2R.
PoE wasn't super ADHD sonic either. Long ago it was VERY SLOW, then pretty D2-style until boom zoom. You can even check old build videos on youtube to see how ADHD it is now
DID you two play d2 when it came out or did you both start with Diablo II: Resurrected? Just a simple question.
I don’t know what year it came out but I started playing when I was like 10, which was over 20 years ago. Picked up the remaster at launch last year
So dont take this the wrong way but it's pure nostalgia for you two. I played it for the first time this year and my god is it slow jank for me. I never got to experience it when it came out in 2000, I understand why people would love it then. If it came out now as a new IP, it would be trashed. It is slow paced even compared to grim dawn. It is bare bones and it looks like shit and does not have Qol like modern ARPGs
Modern gamers should not play d2 first unless they like old school games. it would most likely turn them off the genre if they did.
I just played some today and had fun. How is that nostalgia?
>So dont take this the wrong way but it's pure nostalgia for you two.
No it's not pure nostalgia. Go watch build videos for D2 and walkthrough in nightmare/hell. Watch Grim Dawn videos. Compare them to typical PoE gameplay. Don't (You) me. QoL has nothing to do with combat pace.
Also what the hell is an old school game? A game is just a game anon. Your small mindedness will prevent you from experiencing many joys in life, I suggest you open your mind a bit
Its closer to first Silent Hill game, sure the graphs are a bit dated and gameplay and UI can be bit janky by modern standards but the item system and build depth is still there.
I played D1 on PS1 and D2 during LoD release in LAN party with friends. Maybe a little on private servers. I think it was patch before skill bonuses. Also I played D2R on gamepad. This is best experience especially on melee builds.
Diablo 2 is fairly fast. Other ARPGs are as fast or faster and lost sight. I quickly grew bored of Path of Exile and Grim Dawn. Diablo 1's lower power level and dungeon crawling and more impactful magical items is significantly more engrossing than most in the genre.
Sounds like you're more into dungeon crawlers than Arpgs. Legend of Grimrock 1&2 might be more up your alley.
Legend of Grimrock is not like Diablo 1. I played Diablo 2 well before 1 but Diablo 1 gets things right in various areas. I'm willing to put up with not being able to highlight all items dropped on the floor and needing to do a painful scrub to find an amulet or ring that just dropped due to how much of an impact basic magical items have on your equipment. None the less how you need to utilize corners and door ways to funnel enemies or reduce surface area so you don't get swamped by enemies. Diablo 1 isn't about finding the best in slot gear, but making due with what you find as you descend the cathedral. There were various moments in which I had to juggle armor because upon the floor switch the elemental attacks I came against changed so I shifted my resistances accordingly. I had more reason to hold onto different items rather than rid myself of them.
>None the less how you need to utilize corners and door ways to funnel enemies or reduce surface area so you don't get swamped by enemies.
>There were various moments in which I had to juggle armor because upon the floor switch the elemental attacks I came against
Very common thing in dungeon crawlers as well. In older dungeon crawlers the doors sometimes hurt monsters as they closed so luring them to the narrow corridors and doorways was essential. Sounds like you need to try them if you haven't already.
Play TOME.
When did you first play Diablo 2?
IS there anyone here who played D2 after first playing POE, grim dawn, D3, Last epoch and thought D2 was the better game?
>hurr durr muh nostalgia
Frick off already with this bullshit. Diablo 2 fans are fairly articulate at the exact things they hate about modern ARPGs and it has nothing to do with nostalgia goggles. The itemization in modern ARGs for instance is extremely dumbed down and lacks any and all depth and complexity that Diablo 2 had. The gameplay all feels the exact same. Same with the gameplay. Modern ARPGs play the exact same from lvl 1 all the way to endgame, the only thing that changes is the particle effects you see on screen.
>Modern ARPGs play the exact same from lvl 1 all the way to endgame,
Go frick yourself you disingenuous c**t! face facts, you only like D2 because you played it as a kid. It is shit and boring compared to games made today like POE. Which has a more complex system than d2. D2 is a product of its time and would be trashed if made today.
PoE literally wouldn't even exist if D2 didn't exist you disrespectful little zoomer. I bet the PoE devs would fricking ban you for disrespecting their favorite ARPG that inspired them to make PoE in the first place. That said, PoE has fallen short of coming even close to D2 in both gameplay, complexity and itemization. Having a bloated skill tree with a million passive stat increases might be enough to fool zoomers like you that there is actual complexity there, but at its core, PoE plays and feels just like any other modern trash ARPG, just with more content and slightly less simplistic itemization than D3.
>PoE literally wouldn't even exist if D2 didn't exist
I didnt say d2 was shit when it came out did i? Once again you are a disingenuous c**t. The fact is tho it's a product of its time and majority of the people who like it played it as a kid. You are looking at it with rose tinted glasses. The game is shit compared to ones made today like POE. If they both came out in 2022, You yourself would shit on D2 if you never played it as a kid.
It should not be recommended to gamers today unless they enjoy old school games. It will turn people off ARPG if they dislike games made from that era.
>You are looking at it with rose tinted glasses.
I'm really not though. I haven't played D2 in many years, then I went back to it last year for D2R, played it for a while, I liked it a lot, but I played that game to death when I was a kid so I just can't bother with it anymore. I want nothing more than another great ARPG I can sink my teeth in and I have tried a lot of them, but PoE just isn't it. Believe me, if PoE was anywhere close to as good a game as D2 is, I would be playing it all day every day. I have no sense of loyalty towards a 20 year old game that I haven't really played in 10 years. I WANT a new ARPG to come out and be better than D2, it just hasn't happened yet.
>I would be playing it all day every day
you aren't even playing diablo 2 anymore. you don't want to play ARPG, you just want your childhood back.
If that was the case, I would be playing D2 though in an attempt to relive my childhood. I don't play D2R because I already played the original to death and I want something new. I don't want to relive my childhood. I want a good action RPG with itemization that is as good or better as D2 was and PoE has not been it.
>I would be playing D2 though in an attempt to relive my childhood
you tried, and realized how you didn't want to. if you actually still liked ARPGs, you would have no problem playing it again like thousands of other people do. stop lying to yourself, anon. your childhood is gone.
>That said, PoE has fallen short of coming even close to D2 in both gameplay, complexity and itemization
Ah, yo you never played PoE, got it.
>PoE offers more variety in gameplay because you can actually modify skills, and offers about 10 times more skills and attack moves than D2
>about 100 times more complex because of said skill modifications, but also because of being able to do more than just meph, ball or pindle runs
>the whole itemization system of PoE is built around the collectable currency which allows you to easily craft and even redo stats on your gear
I was wondering why you kept lying in this thread, but it slowly becomes clear that you are just another blizzdrone.
>The itemization in modern ARGs for instance is extremely dumbed down and lacks any and all depth and complexity that Diablo 2 had.
Lol what the itemization in diablo 2 boils down to
-FCR
-Res
-MF
-+levels
95% of uniques/sets are worthless
D2 has easily the best random loot system ever, homosexual.
what the itemization in d2 boils down to:
-FCR
-Resistances
-absorb
-MF
-levels
-IAS
-inscreased stats
-enhanced damage
-ignores target defense
-life / mana
-gear adding specific skills you normally can't use
-auras
-item bases for runewords
-ethereal item bases for merc runewords
-ethereal uniques for merc
what the itemization in modern ARPGs boils down to
-green arrow on dps goes up
-green arrow on main stat goes up
>what the itemization in modern ARPGs boils down to
>-green arrow on dps goes up
>-green arrow on main stat goes up
Name 3 modern ARPGs that do this and aren't made by Blizzard
>-FCR
green arrow on dps goes up
-Resistances
green arrow on def stat goes up
-absorb
green arrow on def stat goes up
-MF
green arrow on loot goes up
-levels
green arrow on dps goes up
-IAS
green arrow on dps goes up
-inscreased stats
green arrow on dps or def goes up
-enhanced damage
green arrow on dps goes up
-ignores target defense
green arrow on dps goes up
-life / mana
green arrow on def goes up
-gear adding specific skills you normally can't use
ONE THING, I DON'T KNOW WHY
-auras
green arrow on dps/def goes up
-item bases for runewords
green arrow on dps/def goes up
-ethereal item bases for merc runewords
green arrow on dps goes up
-ethereal uniques for merc
green arrow on dps goes up
anything else?
yes, modern ARPGs have replayed all this variety in gear progression with "green arrow goes up". Thats exactly my point.
> modern ARPGs
name 3 that are not made by blizzard
nth for diablo 2. The remaster is fine, don’t listen to the haters, it just had a shitty launch with servers down and stuff. Everything’s good now, next ladder season should start sometime around September
Diablo 4 is unironically ramping up to be the best the genre has to offer and that isn't a meme. Old games that are either clones or the original Diablo games tend to be homosexual skinnerboxes for loot and if the reveals and Diablo Immortal is anything to go by Diablo 4 is looking like to be a mainly action-adventure game that ARPGs needed to divert into as Blizzard is focusing on majorly the gameplay than merely le stat building addiction.
>Skill trees and character builders are back, and according to the 2020 update blog each character has specialization classes with their own skill trees. You won’t be able to unlock everything in a skill tree with a single character. Necromancers have Blood Mages, Shadowcasters, and Boneshapers.
>Specializing in one class/tree gives you many bonuses/benefits, homosexuals who want to dip their foot into other trees do so at their own peril or if they think it gives them benefits.
>Respecc points are back, you can respecc infinitely but get costly each time something about resource gathering (reminds me of Titan Quest)
>Paragon system looks vast and complex, something out of PoE.
>Equipment offers a more important role this time than just homosexual attribute sinks and is key in altering spells and changing their functions. If I, as a necromancer, picked up a focus that looks like a heart, it should fricking alter my blood tree/blood spells, and if I pick up a focus in the shape of a bone, it should fricking alter my bone tree/bone spells. As it fricking should be.
>Combination and merging of spells and abilities to make an ever bigger spell/ability effect, ala using a glacial ice spell as a conduit for ray spells that bounces them off like a refracting mirror when playing as a Sorceress.
>Heavily community-based and/or multiplayer-focused.
>Character customization icing on the cake.
>We're back to the dark and edgy Diablo
The only problem is that Blizzard is dumping all their eggs into this basket and WILL milk the dick out of it (monetization)
Imagine having any hope for D4.
I already posted my reasons why, I'm pretty sure you're basing yours on either being a massive reactionary homosexual because it's pretty customary to hate Blizzard or whichever eceleb that frenzied you into a stupor instead of basing your own opinions.
Pretty much my reasoning at the end. The game sounds good, but I'm not going to dip my foot yet until I see how Blizzard is going to build the game. Blizzard has no integrity. But my point still stands, sounds like a good game, but at what cost...
>The game sounds good,
Overwatch was killed by lack of updates and godawful balancing decisions, when it first came out it was a refined experience. D: Immortal is some of the most egregious whale-hunting cash shop shit even by mobile standards. Combine these two major nu-Blizzard issues together and you get D4.
Also new Blizzard team is made of rainbow hair trannies who play games with fricking touch screens.
>celestalon
pretty sure he's the guy who was doing hunter balance for later wow expacs and then when asked about it he revealed that he plays on a tablet
You're basing yours on a bunch of PR bullshit on the levels of D3 prior to release and we all know how that pile of shit turned out. And if you followed any off Blizzards shit after the Activion takeover you would fricking know that there's no hope left for anything made by Blizzard.
>Diablo 4 is unironically ramping up to be the best the genre
>Blizzard already hired an in-game cash shop manager.
Yeah no. Its going to be p2w trash.
I have almost no hope for this game. Blizzard has no integrity. Will we even be able to fricking trade items in this bullshit? The one slot items and affix's look like a clone of the garbage that is d3. Also, the skill tree and that clutter ugly shit on the right both look absolutely terrible.
Shitposting aside D4 will either revolutionize genre or kill Blizzard forever. It's the last hope and I have little hopes left. The itemization for D4 is already fricked. Yeah overpowered runewords were big mistake but still
Runewords are one of the best features of diablo 2 because of their rarity. You can get basically every useful item in the game from farming mephisto, except high runes. It adds some variety to the game and encourages trading
The issue is overpowered easy to craft low level runewords and obviously the broken high levels ones that makes all other gear absolute. Another issue how build enabling runewords are "endgame" high level only.
straight up. the itemization is the most important aspect to the game
>revolutionize genre or kill Blizzard forever.
most people already know it's the latter.
D4 already has 2 stats confirmed, it's not going to revolutionize anything
I never understood the appeal of ARPGs.
>run around
>spam the same couple of spells to clear mobs
>pick up progressively better loot
>repeat ad-finem.
Which is what I was arguing here.
ARPGs are just homosexual skinnerboxes for loot, but at least Blizzard is looking to change Diablo into an actual game to be played than just treating it like a casino with loot slotmachines, slotmachines being bosses.
You have to be a complete moron if you don't know Diablo 4 will just be a toned down version of immortal. Blizzard only cares about you shelling out cash. I'm betting there will be loot boxes in d4.
Good ones have the appeal of trying to figure out a build of your own and trying to make it work in-game. As easy as the gameplay looks and feels, you're constantly dancing on a knife's edge in games like Path of Exile where you can get killed quite easily if you're not paying attention to what you're doing. Endgame bosses set a standard to how good your character has to be in order to beat them, so thats a goal you're working towards while farming for better gear. Not counting D3 or Immortal, their endgame is terrible where numbers just go up infinitely.
k.
Frick all these gays in this thread. Best game to play is divine divinity.
Grim Dawn is miles better than any Diablo game
also frick Blizzard
I moved to playing PoE instead after Blizzard bowed to China in 2019 and I've had a great time.
>he doesn't know
Pirate Diablo 1 and 2. Skip everything else.
>Hates China
>Plays PoE
Diablo 2 set the standard and has never been surpassed and with D2R's improvements to the spell cast system it plays like a modern ARPG so there's literally no reason to play anything else
D2R has not content sadly.
dark souls series and successors
>go to the thrift shop
>see a Diablo 2 CD case
>write down the CD key
>redeem on battle net
>it works
Better than piracy
immortal is amazing so start with that
t. played nearly every arpg to completion
D1 has kino story and atmosphere but badly needs a remaster. D2 is the king of the loot grinders with some story tackled in. D3 is a Scooby-Doo parody with MMO loot.
PoE is what happens when you keep amassing every fricking idea under the sun on top of your standard diablo-like just to look at the autistic fireworks.
>D1 needs a remaster
frick off
ok it can be a remake
commit sudoku
pirate titan quest and shit around with it
I never like ARPGs much. It's all the weaknesses of an isometric RPG with none of the strengths. No non-combat skills or puzzles, no real dialogue to plot asides from "this killed village you must kill them back." Hack and Slashes at least have polished combat instead of simple DPS races.
ARPGs are an asscrack genre between two better art forms and all you really do in them is hoard gear and genocide random undead fricks and shitter animals. If you start taking elements out like in diablo 3 then it's just completely mindless and stupid.
Diablo 1 is the best one. Every game released in the genre after Diablo 2 is just "dood +10000% movement speed screenclear gear score get instakilled if you have 1% less than max resists, dude it's all about the loot explosions"
Don't know sisters. Besides ADHD, "you can do everything" in PoE just kills game for me. I like having dedicated classes with set array skills. PoE's ascendancies don't help because everyone can use same skills. No class characterization.
there, there. just boot up diablo immortal again and get yourself a real threat. buy the big platinum pack. you deserve it 🙂
are you okay?
only if you stop hurting from too much choice. I'm helping you out man, telling you exactly what you need to do. and right now, you need to get yourself a fine diablo immortal treat 🙂
meds
no more (You)s for you.
No more (you)s for you either, because I'm the only one ITT who cares for you, little one.
the best arpg by faaar in terms of gameplay feel is unironically diablo 3 on console with a controller
Last Epoch is the most fun ARPG out right now.
No wonder so many companies get away with pumping out such garbage.
morons like op are over here begging blizzard to take their money for a 20 year old game, while being completely unwilling to pay a smaller company for their much cheaper game with more content as well as a fricking mod that literally IS diablo 2
blizzdrones are among the biggest morons on the planet, and ARPG fans are on par with pokemon fans
Why would anyone play half assed ripoffs unless they were moronic chinks or eastern European?
None of the Diablo clones are half as good as Diablo
the only good thing about diablo is the atmosphere because of the soulful design.
mechanics, gameplay and character building are vastly outclassed by anything that came after
>Mechanics
Lmao not a full game
You won't remember it after you've finished it
RPGs are played for the immersion, not the fricking mechanics lol
>played for the immersion, not the fricking mechanics
that's what I was saying. blizzdrones literally don't give a frick about mechanics or gameplay, they want to feel like they belong somewhere.
Nobody gives a frick about mechanics or gameplay besides nerds who weren't physical enough to play a sport haha
>*blizzdrones don't gives a frick about mechanics or gameplay
ftfy
PoE shill pls.
>teleports to boss
>kills boss in 3 seconds
>nothing again
>leave game
>create new game
>"alright, run #1470 today"
I was always fascinated by people who believe this is good gameplay
>Chooses to replay the game a thousand times of his own accord
>This is apparently bad gameplay
>of his own accord
no, because of his loot addiction
>This is apparently bad gameplay
yes, without question
Yeah because if a game is so good you want to replay it that means it's bad
Nice logic
>I'm only playing it because of the good gameplay, I swear
It's not 2010 anymore, POE & Lost Ark are far superior to D2/3.
Yeah sure brah just like counterstrike is better than half life right
Diablo 2R is good if you have never played the game, otherwise every other ARPG is better since it has an actual end game.
Median XL and Project D2 are better than Vanilla D2
Grim Dawn. Best aRPG on the market today.
Diablo 2 is go-
t. Nublizz dev who thinks the game has to be balanced until it's so boring nobody wants to play it
>he doesn't know
>Gameplay is so shif fhe best item in the game is a lv1 teleport
Just keep farming maybe one day you’ll farm a jah rune so you can finally play a character that isn’t sorc.
I finished the game back in 2001, thanks though moron
PoE is essentially a gacha. It is designed for addicts to empty their wallet. Like all addicts, they will defend their addiction, but at face value, there isn't really much in the game to justify the kind of outlay required to run a top tier character. The gameplay is also very jank. The animations clunky and it feels more like Sonic than Diablo. It's a zoomer title through and through. Do it if you must, but be aware it's a money scammer at its heart.
Did the new patch for D2 make it more fun bros?
What character should I try out first?
Pure summoner necro obviosly. They fixed Iron Golem despawn bug and made necro pet AI better, more aggressive. So far I don't thing any other mod was able to do this because it's in the code
I got D2R in the current sale and I'm enjoying it, though this is a genre I like. I played a bit of D2 back in the day as well, so I had some idea about what I'm getting into. Might want to start with Grim Dawn, perhaps. It's been a very long time since I tried PoE as well, that might not be a bad choice either.
torchlight 2 with dracos modpack , synergies mod , variant items , trasher items , fame and lvl mod plus whatever you can get to work with all of the above is tons of fun for a long time , guaranteed 40+ hours of it and great progress plus alternate leveling and such.
don´t listen to PoE homosexuals , that game blows ass for a long time now , don´t even think it´s free absolutely not and riddled with blatant RMT shit droprates and too much RNG to even see endgame content , cookiecutting is a must so is tradeing wether you want to or not.
if you play any ARPG without trading or mods you won't be getting anywhere in hundreds of hours
>everyone says diablo 2 is amazing
>You can only have 2 active skills
I dont have any nostalgia for it, how the frick do you go back and cope with 2 moves
style over substance
diablo 2 had amazing art direction and that's pretty much it. everything else is just running the same bosses a million times in hopes to find something you can trade
Well I press the button to change skills
You don't know how to use hotkeys ?
Have you tried using your F keys?
Bro...your hotkeys?
Your gamepad (you have two hotbards)? And yes you press other skills unless you're pally.
Can you even pirate resurrected? Why not?
when foes immortal bevome unplaxable for f2p. im lvl 57 and the highest paragon ive seen was 30
Is diablo 2 resurrected worth purchasing at a 40% discount?
Or is it just nostalgia bait
it's just same diablo 2 with QoL, graphics, bug fixes and new balance with new runes. And gamepad support. Not worth it if you need to ask. Try torrents I'm pretty sure it should be cracked
>Diablo-like ARPG
You answered yourself there, boy
Grim Dawn is fun as well
Just play Diablo 2 remake at best you just play Nioh 1-2 because all the other games have zero real gameplay.
Pretty much every aRPG developed after Diablo 2 is it's clone in some way, because of this Diablo 1 is very different.
I would just play D1 -> D2 -> others
D2 is the best game ever made and all other ARPGs are cope