Probably! FFXIV only bans mods on paper, for reference, the game has no anti-cheat and the developers really don't give a frick what you're using so long as you're not using outside tools for Ultimate world races. And even with that FFXIV has been trying to incorporate a lot of popular mods into the main game of late, i.e. role colored names for party members.
how dumb are you? the thread topic is an example of this. He promises to not have a mod war, yet not ban mods. He sees the tradeoffs made by two different products in how they handled a difficult problem and proposes that he can fix everything with his brand new product. he's selling to you
>its going to be fully solo focused but also mandatory multiplayer focused >its going to be a classic MMORPG but also a survival-crafting MMO >Iits going to be PvE focused but also PvP focused >its going to be story focused but also living world focused >its going to break away from tropes but also use all the classic tropes
And many more like that. Its basically the classic Kickstarter shit of saying "yes" to everything people ask.
full on anti-addon people are morons of the highest caliber.
i understand complaining about things like combat timers and in-fight weakauras, but anyone who has a problem with things like ui addons (e.g. elvui) should go back to single player story games.
as far as wow goes one of the best things about the game is the ability to actually make your ui/ux not dogshit like every other game. i genuinely wish every game had an elvui-equivelent. weakauras are wierd, because something like timers tracking personal buff uptime are great, while mechanic-solving auras are detrimental to the game, blizzard is moving towards more private auras but it doesn't really solve it since people can just macro a button to activate auras manually and use other overlays.
tldr addons good, addons that solve mechanics bad
You've clearly not been in any XIV thread, 99% of the "REEEEEEEEE THEY NEED TO BAN ALL MODS AND INSTALL (dogshit FOTM anti-cheat that does nothing) NOW" come from people seething about purely visual mods
>i understand complaining about things like combat timers and in-fight weakauras, but anyone who has a problem with things like ui addons (e.g. elvui) should go back to single player story games.
This is a nonsensical sentence.
You "understand complaining about things like weakauras" but also you think people who do have a problem with that should "go back to single player story games" ?
So is the complaint something you understand, or is it something that shouldn't even be considered?
Look, the issue is very simple: When you allow addons, you're allowing randoms to co-design your game.
Would ilvl exist if it wasn't for the gearscore addon? Would people get walled out of getting a foot into the M+ threadmill if it wasn't for raiderio? Would the raids have such unreadable, nonsensical mechanics if it wasn't for the expectation that it's going to be played with DBM on?
Raiding with DBM isn't fun. PVPing with Weakauras isn't fun.
WoW isn't fun anymore because the devs let the players optimize the fun out of it, and then helped them optimize it more.
No addons. Frick your Elvui, that shit looks like trash anyway, you have disgusting taste and should be ashamed.
It also obliterates the chance for new players to join, since having to download five hundred billion mods to be able to play the game will deter people from even trying it out.
>Would ilvl exist if it wasn't for the gearscore addon?
Yes. It always existed. >Would people get walled out of getting a foot into the M+ threadmill if it wasn't for raiderio?
Yes. Raider.io didn't even exist until BFA. >Would the raids have such unreadable, nonsensical mechanics if it wasn't for the expectation that it's going to be played with DBM on?
DBM is only boss timers, it hasn't got even a fraction of the functionality enabled by Blizzard's addon API and is decidedly not the problem.
WoW's default UI is borderline unusable, and they somehow managed to make it *even worse* with their recent updates to it.
>Would ilvl exist if it wasn't for the gearscore addon?
yes it literally existed in vanilla wow before gearscore you mouth breathing moron
the reason ilvl is so prevalent now is because they stopped making useless items so the ilvl of a piece of gear is more indicative of how much power it gives your character
>Would ilvl exist if it wasn't for the gearscore addon?
Yes, because ilvl was a thing long before gearscore and it is a value to determine base effectiveness of an item. That's how they designed all items and accounted for their stats, math is on the wiki. Gearscore became popular because WoTLK upgrades were just ilvl increases, not the other way around.
I will absolutely concede DBM argument, since invisible timers are bullshit and having to use an addon to see them is just bad game design.
The thing is, you cannot make good UI addons without enabling functionality for cancer addons. The moment you give users the ability to draw a texture on the screen it's ogre.
This is the reality. And it will always end up with shit like GearStore, etc.
I loved WoW high customization, but the reality is fricking morons always take something like that for online games and ruin shit for everyone.
>but anyone who has a problem with things like ui addons (e.g. elvui) should go back to single player story games.
moron, addons ARE for single player games
>elvui
that shit breaks every day
friend recently switched to it for wow classic
he's had to update it 8 times in 3 weeks
the frick bruh, just show me some health bars with a few options of bar size and movable anchor, holy shit
> i genuinely wish every game had an elvui-equivelen
How the frick does this look any good to you homosexual? This looks like complete shit.
It looks like if someone tried making the FFXIV UI in PowerPoint
it's still going to have the game start at level cap so who cares
it's still going to be a gear rat race instead of having unique and interesting items that remain situationally useful so who cares
it's still made by the people who killed the genre in the first place so who gives a single frick
not him but at this point whats even the purpose of levels? Just lock whole progression behind items and it won't make a difference. Again monster hunter was decades ahead
>whats even the purpose of levels?
Let you gain your abilities slowly so you have time to get familiar with each one and figure out a comfortable layout before its time to start using them in the real game?
maybe that was necessary 20 years ago when people didn't know how to type properly on a computer but for todays standard it's outdated. So is toolbar bloat. Guild Wars 1 had less than any game and was better than both ffxiv and wow with way more build variety to it.
This shit is still needed now because you still have people no reading their skills or not having fricking limit break on their bar because the game doesn’t force you to have it.
Then it's fricking moronic because 99% of the playerbase reach max level without ever having given a shit about how to use their kit to even a tenth of efficiency.
Levels are useless when it come to teaching, because they don't teach shit. They just drop the tools on you and pray you can figure it out yourself, which everyone who played online game know just won't happen.
If you don’t have the initiative to find the resources to help you or ask then I’m going to insult you and kick you from my group for playing poorly, or more likely you will be gatekept by standards I enforce on who can join my group
Get good scrub
The levels will be nothing more than the long drawn out "tutorial" just like almost every MMO that wants to usher you to "endgame" as fast as possible so they can design a bunch of shit curated specifically to their intended variable range. You'll take a short while to get to whatever the cap is, then you get to "really play the game" with all progression being from grinding out incrementally stronger gear, most of which is given to you through random lottery drops.
The only MMO that did that kind of thing right was Guild Wars 1, mostly because it wasn't really an MMO but a coop strategy game. Leveling up was nothing more than a formality. You hit level 20 naturally at around a specific point in the original story, unlocking some stuff and gaining Ascension. Then you began the real game of exploring to discover new skills, abilities, class changing, and gear that has more utilitarian uses instead of just being bigger number.
>endgame as fast as possible
I'll use japanese pso2 ship 2 (the primary english playerbase ship) as an example here for this. While the game is not a mmorpg (just a morpg), it still has a decent chuck of its content being 8/12 player content that you primarily play with random people. On ship 2, new players would join and be rather than 'naturally' play through the content and finish getting high enough to partake in 'endgame' after doing so, they would be told 'hey do these 4 quests to unlock this quest, and then run ONLY THIS until you hit the level cap, then repeat it at least one more time for your subclass". said quest was as braindead and trivial as could be, resulting in players at the level cap who had absolutely no fricking idea how to play.
After a bunch of complaints, sega implemented an 'expert check' which the requirement was "beat this other quest type that essentially checks that you have some semblance of knowledge of the class you're playing as in order to beat it". The difference between groups of people who had passed that minor skill check and enabled the filter, and the groups who had not was night and day, to the point that people were actually getting other people to log into their accounts to have them pass the check for them so they could then return to being carried through content instead of failing as result of being a bad player.
tl;dr let people skip the tutorial after they've played through it once, but add some filters to keep people who dont know how to play from making the experience of those who do significantly worse.
The second of 10 servers that you could potentially play on, also "coincidentally" the worst.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>endgame as fast as possible
I'll use japanese pso2 ship 2 (the primary english playerbase ship) as an example here for this. While the game is not a mmorpg (just a morpg), it still has a decent chuck of its content being 8/12 player content that you primarily play with random people. On ship 2, new players would join and be rather than 'naturally' play through the content and finish getting high enough to partake in 'endgame' after doing so, they would be told 'hey do these 4 quests to unlock this quest, and then run ONLY THIS until you hit the level cap, then repeat it at least one more time for your subclass". said quest was as braindead and trivial as could be, resulting in players at the level cap who had absolutely no fricking idea how to play.
After a bunch of complaints, sega implemented an 'expert check' which the requirement was "beat this other quest type that essentially checks that you have some semblance of knowledge of the class you're playing as in order to beat it". The difference between groups of people who had passed that minor skill check and enabled the filter, and the groups who had not was night and day, to the point that people were actually getting other people to log into their accounts to have them pass the check for them so they could then return to being carried through content instead of failing as result of being a bad player.
tl;dr let people skip the tutorial after they've played through it once, but add some filters to keep people who dont know how to play from making the experience of those who do significantly worse.
RIP to PSO2 by the way. SEGA did you fricking dirty, and right when you finally released overseas.
6 months ago
Anonymous
They sure did. Not only did they basically take base pso2 out behind the shed and off it, they also 'updated' the engine for it game months ahead of NGS release which basically completely destroyed the lighting aspect making everything look really out of place in, well, every context and never fixed it.
There's also other shit that they never fixed or addressed in any manner relating to character/weapon models of other players. Even on the highest graphics settings, your character model was one 'tier' higher than everybody elses, and while you could adjust the amount of character models being loaded (from 1 or 4 or something up to 50 iirc), you could not make other players models look better at all. Then they made this even more moronic in ngs: There are 2 model files per costume/outfit you wear, one for you, and one for everybody else. Again, you can't change the model quality for others in game, instead you have to manually find the outfits and replace the lower quality file with the higher one that's been renamed to the correct name. This is in a game with almost 200,000 files for all its assets.
6 months ago
Anonymous
But which game?
[...]
RIP to PSO2 by the way. SEGA did you fricking dirty, and right when you finally released overseas.
What happened?
6 months ago
Anonymous
phantasy star online 2.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Sega made a 'remake' sequel called New Genesis and attached it to the original PSO2 (which you still can technically play, but is no longer updated) like a cancerous growth. New Genesis sucks fat fricking wieners and bloated the size of the original game.
dont allthose homosexuals work at ncsoft? they basically took over ncwest 15 years ago. so its the rejects from arenanet that couldnt even scam koreans? future is looking bright.
UI mods are fine I feel but shit like DBM WeakAuras etc are just completely simplifying the game.
They should have been banned from the start.
If you can’t do a raid without a robotic voice telling you to move to a specific location you’re a fricking casual.
it is a dumb arms race >here's 5 things that can happen every 12s, starting after the first random proc, also if you don't avoid it, it'll one shot you
is just bad design, wow did it to themselves
Replace Bloodstained with Outer Worlds. Also, why is this so common, when some of the best IPs spawned from the devs of another IP making their own version with Blackjack and Hookers? [Star Ocean, Xeno, Fallout, Titanfall]
People that barely make it to the original game credits or had a specific role sometimes not even related to core development, decide to use the credits aknowledge as level
i was really dissapointed with calisto since Glen Schofield was involved but aparently executive producer and co-director/producer are way diferent roles, and he mostly focused on art since is what he knows and conceptual art and graphs are ok, but mechanicaly and story was a downer
bloodstain only problem was 2.5D i remember watching the kickstarter an thinking it was gonna be 2D HD like shantae or Vanillaware games
1) Lots of "from the maker of" are the intern janitor's cousin's neighbor and not the actual brains behind the game.
2) If your most recent success was 20 years ago, it mean today's (you) suck and doesn't have much in common anymore with old (you).
>Wolcen is as bad as D4
Wolcen is worse because they still have regular server rollbacks. The campaign and campaign boss design might unironically be the best in the genre, but rollbacks for seemingly no reason are unacceptable. At least you can make offline character with no risk of that shit I guess.
>mfw everyone thinks games are good because of the "ideas guy"
All these devs produced great games because they had a team of people to work with and some suits to form their objectives. Free reign and yes men exposes that "ideas guys" alone are not the reason why they make good games.
Vanilla wow was good because all the quests were made via the writers doing tabletop sessions and writing it out over time organically. The game was in dev hell for a while and they had literally 10 years of tabletop session to work with on material. You just can't find that level of quality anymore.
What made wow good was leveling up for 1 to 50 and just experiencing the little people in the world. Now that it's zero'd in on fricking immortal dragon gods and billion year old monsters and demons it's objectively shit.
Take me back to the days where you were a ragged zombie talking to other zombies in dilapidated shacks. Or a naked orc hunting board for meat in your tribe and avenging a man's wife in a barren wilderness.
I don't care about most addons. But if you allow dbm like addons, you basically make it a get it or get out scenario for 95% of the playerbase. Blind prog in XIV is one of my favorite end game activity.
It will fail
Not because of the game's quality. But because any playerbase would have to give up their WoW or FF14 time and all those hours are sunk cost.
Can you convince me that this game will have parity in features and compelling story that it would be worth it to dump characters and story lines you have been invested in for 10 years?
It will fail because, you know it wont. Nobody will jump ship to put 1000s of hours in to a new MMO. If they have to sunk cost their current character.
Think about it, how many "WoW killers" have come up. Aion online, and every korean MMO on the planet that was aimed at westerners, failed. But somehow this one wont? Reminds me of every Battle Royal game that aimed at the king and lost. (Lawbreakers bros rise up)
Lighting only strikes once with MMOs. The game is already set, these "ex-WoW devs" will either put out a sub par game and nobody joins it or fail before that.
Unhinged schizo rant but give you the benefit of the doubt >compelling story that it would be worth it to dump characters and story lines you have been invested in for 10 years?
No MMO has this >Nobody will jump ship to put 1000s of hours in to a new MMO. If they have to sunk cost their current character.
You don't lose your current character, I play FF14 currently and would happily play another MMO, it's not like my FF14 character goes anywhere, I've taken months/years off at a time before to play other games or MMOs. >Think about it, how many "WoW killers" have come up. Aion online, and every korean MMO on the planet that was aimed at westerners, failed.
Because they were shit P2W cash grabs with little post-release support >Lighting only strikes once with MMOs.
Lightning strikes when something is made compelling enough to capture an audience, just look at how fast the world consumed Genshin
>reddit fallacies
Every big MMO has had universally panned stories with Endwalker being a massive disappointment and WoW's "spooky man in the background did everything all along" if you don't have an argument move on
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Again more no true scotsman
Your argument was invaild, deal with it.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Fallacy fallacy
Committing a fallacy doesn't make an argument invalid, you're a moron but since you used one, you invalidated yourself
6 months ago
Anonymous
>no mmo has a good story >this one does >no, that story is shit
Good talk
6 months ago
Anonymous
>this one does
This part never happened
6 months ago
Anonymous
Good talk
6 months ago
Anonymous
>All he has is NO U
Brain broken midwit.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Accuse people of committing fallacies and ignore their arguments >Get called out for committing a fallacy in the process >Start screeching personal insults
I think we know who the midwit is here, spoiler it's (You)
6 months ago
Anonymous
>NOOOO MMO HAS GOOD STORYSSSSS >Gets btfo with a bit of logic >proceeded to go down the list of reddit, and trying to checkmate me instead of making a real argument. >Wont just frick off and die in a fire like he is supposed to.
You are doing nothing to disprove my calm and collected analysis of your posts that you have midwitted your way in to a conversation and i am laughing at you for it. >WELLL NO MMO HAS A GOOD STORY ANYWAY
Fricking lol what a midwit take. You are not even worth engaging in any sort of good faith way after that take bro.
6 months ago
Anonymous
You're getting angrier the more you get called out on your hypocrisy and lack of an argument, now you're whining that your screeching isn't making everyone bend to your weak will, upset they aren't leaving you alone. It's anonymous you can just fade into the background and no one will know who you are, you'll do better next thread. Under the facade of not engaging with the argument you've done nothing but fail to discredit it
6 months ago
Anonymous
So what mmo has a good story
6 months ago
Anonymous
ffxiv is by far the best when it comes to story but it's like 500 hours long at this point and I can't even recommend it to anyone unless they are deeply depressed and need to distract themselves or just broke up with a girlfriend or some shit. It is peak of it's genre though.
The thing is you don't actually want a plot in an mmo at all. FFXIV is final fantasy first and mmo 2nd. Always has been.
6 months ago
Anonymous
lol
6 months ago
Anonymous
Each xpac is a whole final fantasy game. It's so bloated now it's really hard to recommend it to friends at this point. There is too much content. I easily 10k hours without ever touching a raid and I still haven't even started all those variety dungeon bullshit or even completed all deep dungeons. It's too much. Simply too big of a game to tell someone to pick it up and go through it.
FF14's story is fricking awful and made worse by the fact that you're forced to engage with it.
you only say that because you are angry at the game but it is by far the best and always will be. It is absolutely worth it to go through but it's such a long and daunting task barely anyone will manage at this point. You are not supposed to play 5 final fantasy games back to back. FFXIV gets praised for it's plot while wow gets laughed at. People even argue ffxiv has the best plot of any final fantasy game yet which it might but it's unfair to compare a stand alone game with a game that has x amount of expansions
6 months ago
Anonymous
FF14's story is fricking awful and made worse by the fact that you're forced to engage with it.
>just look at how fast the world consumed Genshin
Literally the only good part that's not mogged by another game is the open world, and that's at the expense of dungeons, good enemy/boss design, and overall combat quality.
>Think about it, how many "WoW killers" have come up
no one plays WoW any more either, the hottest new shit of hardcore is still only 2 servers, LK only has like 4 active megaserver and retail is a fricking joke
No it's a result of no one making a good MMO outside of WoW and FF14. Korean MMO's are all incredibly P2W and now developers just make gacha games instead of MMO's
nobody has made an mmo better than wow and ff players will play anything with the ff label on it
if an actually good mmo came out the duopoly would just rotate to all the mmo players playing that mmo and the ff fans still playing whatever the most recent ff “mmo” is
Probably the fact that the reception to new ffxiv patches is largely based on how many “I understood that final fantasy reference!” moments there are rather than what content gets added to the game
6 months ago
Anonymous
False, Endwalker has been constantly criticized by players of FFXIV for lacking content
6 months ago
Anonymous
It’s just recently being criticized by a small handful of content creators and the playerbase is largely lashing out against those people
See: the other content creators who are now making the “Nuh uh it’s actually better than ever!” knee jerk reaction videos
6 months ago
Anonymous
I think you're getting a very biased side of the argument, outside of the main subreddit (which just posts memes, comics and sucks developers dick) the general community feel is that content in Endwalker has been very sparse overall, while some doomers exaggerating about the death of FFXIV have been rightly put in their place that doesn't mean all the real issues have been forgotten about. There are some small peaks in Endwalker, Criterion dungeons were great but the first two were too unrewarding and the third while good doesn't do enough to make up for 9 months of no content
6 months ago
Anonymous
Been the other way around for a while. Endwalker patches have been heavy on references and light on content, which the playerbase has hated. References used to be well liked, but even the most bone headed fans noticed something's up when the amount of memberberries went up at the same time everything else went down.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Yea ffxiv is a huge final fantasy theme park it’s been this way for 10 years and will keep being that way. Only a moron or newbie would be surprised by this.
When wow came out, all the other established MMOs were for literal poopsockers and fricking spastics.
Suddenly little timmy, his soccermom and jeff from next door could whack pigs and make new friends in a gloryfied chatroom.
Times changed, social media came and did it's thing an wow was just there getting smaller in a niche that was never big.
Other big name studios tried to go for Bobby's lunchmoney, but nobody came even close. EA tried it twice and failed both times for entirely different reasons.
Currently MMOs are just not the hot thing that gets everyones money. As other anons correctly observed, gacha is the current big thing. A good mmo takes a lot of fricking time to make, foresight and a very anti corporate approach.
WoW was codeveloped with Warcraft 3 and Blizzard was out of money when the game released. They had frickall to pay anyone any salary the first few weeks into the release. The success basically was hail fricking marry and paid off big time.
I don't even think you can replicate the magic and the extreme pains devs went to make WoW work.
Look at classic. All iterations except standard vanilla and hardcore are not really popular.
>All iterations except standard vanilla and hardcore are not really popular.
BC could have been without the moronic level boost that made chink bots an absolutely unstoppable disaster.
>Is it the fault of WoW's playerbase for not wanting to try anything else in the 10s?
It's the other way around: every single MMORPG developer and publisher collectively decided that "we want the WoW audience" will surely be a viable business strategy. But yeah, player sunk cost is a real thing as well: if you have established content, grinded progression and possibly even community in your current multiplayer game, why on earth would you want to risk switching to almost exact same type of game?
Something like XIV succeeded because, aside from the extremely marketable IP, they started marketing a "MMORPG" to players who don't actually like to play MMORPGs so the playerbase doesn't necessarily overlap. Despite technically having very similar surface level elements akin to WoW such as tab combat, the entire game revolves around a lengthy single-player main quest that involves the player just reading interactions between a cadre of anime goody two shoes for hours on end, with the existence of other players being given mere lip service in both story and gameplay. For better or worse they also removed all sorts of stat and gear grind (assuming you stick to one or two jobs) - better because less time wasted, worse because there's no gameplay incentive to interact with other players - so you can just play through the whole thing aside from instances completely solo and then drop the game once you're finished with the main plot.
Nobody has answered your question. It's a difficult answer.
MMOs are difficult, because if there's already one that exists people will just flock to it. If it already has all the features you could ever want in an MMO then there's no point in making a game that services some niche aspect that wow missed.
WildStar is a big example, they genuinely thought that people wanted a more hardcore MMO experience...which is the complete opposite of what customers wanted. Wow was popular because it was casual, they fricked up and the game died with the devs scratching their head because they were fans of a niche category of gaming that nobody gives a frick about.
Now that blizzard killed what made wow good, the floor is open. That's why FFXIV has taken over. Wow is no longer a casual chat room l, it's now an autistic time sink. With the new league of legends MMO in development there's a real chance they might take over.
>Now that blizzard killed what made wow good, the floor is open. That's why FFXIV has taken over.
ffxiv doesn’t do anything that vanilla wow did well
the world is awful, the classes are homogenous, the pvp is shit, the gameplay is slow and unresponsive
Why do you homosexualS keep thinking gameplay matters? It could be even more slimmed down and it wouldn't matter. All that matters is the visual appeal, doing funny interesting quests, exploring the world, and leveling crafters.
You're so stuck in the wow raider mindset you can't even see how deep in the box you are. It's not about how wow plays, it's what you're doing. And nobody wants to do a gay centaur wedding quest you fricking troony
I don’t think wows style of gameplay is the only way to make a good mmo but gameplay still matters
Ffxiv feels like absolute shit to play, why would I play a game for hundreds or thousands of hours when it feels like shit to play
I just hate the direction of wow, I hate how it feels like you need to do 20 shitty worthless quests before you proceed. I hate how questing and world building does not matter.
In FFXIV ya the gameplay is considerably more shit, but, the first DLC is about an ancient elven Orthodox Christian kingdom and their 1000 year old crusade against dragons. It's fricking tight and it takes place in this beautiful frozen landscape. I'd rather spend my time learning about that world, where the NPCs matter and are actually interesting.
The scions are also more interesting than thrall or any character in wow. It makes sense they are with you.
In wow they need to keep contriving a reason for why you're always hanging around the leaders of the factions but nobody acknowledges you. And worse is that they call you champion. It's fricking gay. I don't want to work for these people.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Not sure why you’re complaining about modern wow superhero writing while also praising ffxiv superhero, japan writing
They’re both shit and if you want a game about world building and exploration then go play vanilla wow, or more precisely go play warcraft 1, 2 and 3 and then play vanilla wow
6 months ago
Anonymous
In wow it's baked in that you're just a soldier shuffled off from one battlefield to another. It should have stayed there. The fact that they're trying to copy ffxivs chosen one writing style while adding marvel shit to it makes it worse. FFXIV isn't about marvel or superheroes. It's about a warrior light who's fighting a nuanced tragic villain who's cool not because he's thanks but because he's just a guy.
I recommend you play FFXIV. I've played wow, I've played wc3. FFXIVs story goes harder than any browbeats in wow.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Ive played xiv, the story is easily the worst paced I’ve ever experienced in my entire life
There’s about 5 genuinely cool moments spread out over hundreds of hours of tedium and cliches
And most importantly it’s a single player story, I’m playing an mmo I want a multi player story where I’m part of the rts army
6 months ago
Anonymous
Well then we'll have to agree to disagree.
All's I can say is that wow stopped being about what you said, an RTS grunt on the frontlines. Because it's now the gayest comic book story in existence, with the most dogshit writing.
?si=TtNejVo0DzF--9IO
You couldn't pay me to play this shit.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Because it's now the gayest comic book story in existence, with the most dogshit writing.
I agree, the problem is that xiv writing was always this dogshit comic book writing except it’s dogshit shinten writing so you give it a pass for whatever reason
6 months ago
Anonymous
[...]
shonen*
Thanks autocorrect
Because
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx83yC9Lae54zN_6zVEfkpK6-e318rfGJM?si=WufxVoaSQ9tBsrSG
This goes hard. And wow doesn't. Japanese writing blows the frick out of your Californian too ironic to be genuine, girl power wank off where they're trying to take every low effort writing Trop and crame it into an action adventure game with no depth or effort.
This entire time You're talking shit about wow, but too bitter to accept that FFXIV has merits as to why it's better than wow. You continually hate on your own points because you know wow has the worst writing in video games, but you just can't concede tis point.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>out of game cinematic
wod had a great cinematic, didn’t make it a good or well written expansion
you prefer eorzea to azeroth that’s plain to see, it doesnt make the writing good
6 months ago
Anonymous
Do you prefer the Lich King being behind every conflict? No scratc that, the burning Legion is behind everything, no wait scratch that, grey thanos is behind everything, no wait, the void lords are, wait no it's the old ones or something.
Or how every character is written the exact same way and wants peace for no reason, deflating the entire central premise of the game?
Is there actually anything about WoW's story that's better than FFXIV? Can you actually name it or will you keep deflecting.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>uhh uhh uhhh its better because uh..... (thing from 20 years ago made and retconned by a writer who was fired 10 years ago) so checkmate!
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Is there actually anything about WoW's story that's better than FFXIV?
the vanilla wow alliance onyxia story
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Is there actually anything about WoW's story that's better than FFXIV?
NO lmao
xiv at its worst is still leagues above wow at its best, story-wise. that includes warcraft
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Because it's now the gayest comic book story in existence, with the most dogshit writing.
I agree, the problem is that xiv writing was always this dogshit comic book writing except it’s dogshit shinten writing so you give it a pass for whatever reason
shonen*
Thanks autocorrect
6 months ago
Anonymous
you're trying to argue logic with someone whos drank too much of the kool-aid
My point was that people honestly wonder why people aren't playing wow because "wow has the best gameplay".
It's a negligible difference at best and doing so is a sacrifice in writing and world building and quests. Wow is a dogshit world written by the most insufferable people on the planet, it doesn't matter how good the gameplay supposedly is. I hate having to quest and get talked down to by black women knights.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Gameplay hasn't gotten better, either. They simplified it to make up for the constant autistic shuffling to avoid damage. It's also slower since they implemented the change to prevent gcd hacks.
6 months ago
Anonymous
what
6 months ago
Anonymous
who
6 months ago
Anonymous
I genuinely don’t even know what game you’re talking about with that post, care to elaborate?
The problem are the boss mechanics themselves. A bossfight should be at most as difficult as a monster hunter hunt and scale just like that. Normies should be able to clear it the same day they unlock with a bit of luck and carefull play. There is no point in having raids at all especially this overtuned where you have to learn mechanics over a month to clear it like in ffxiv. Its not fun. Nobody is doing it besides 1% of the playerbase. The whole concept is wrong. STEP ON THE SPIDERS DON'T LET THEM REACH THE BOSS is uncreative and boring. Monster Hunter had it figured out all along. You can do 20 man monster hunter fights if you want. Shit like Lao Shan. Raids right now are either gearlocked or memorization garbage and none of them are fun
>XIV raids are fun if you play the versions meant for normal people and not the terminally moronic sweatlords.
What are you talking about? The only content designed for sweatlords in XIV is ultimates. Ultimates are unclearable for pugs except maybe giga rare cases in JP region. But those groups are static at this point.
>What are you talking about?
I even used the word normal in my post anon, though if you're gonna jack off to how savages are totally casual guys then you can just frick off
>if you're gonna jack off to how savages are totally casual guys then you can just frick off
Savages are casual content. They're designed for pugs in mind. Japs are clearing hem in DUTY FINDER. EU and JP are using macors. Did you hear about macros? This is how "hard" they're. They're not for sweatlords and savage players are mostly chill.
You have no fricking clue what you're talking about. Mechanics in XIV do not require communication by design. Most JP raiders don't use voice chat even at Ultimate difficulty. >https://ff14.toolboxgaming.space/?id=375681351422861&preview=1
Look at something like this, you just need to know your role and do as you're supposed to do. If everyone does their pre-assigned duty, you will kill the boss without any communication. It is 100% doable in PF and I've been in those parties
6 months ago
Anonymous
>You have no fricking clue what you're talking about. Mechanics in XIV do not require communication by design
Good luck clearing ultimates in pugs.
6 months ago
Anonymous
yeah sure instead of communicating we just have (Allagan Melon) instead
6 months ago
Anonymous
That's because the players are fricking stupid, you could do the same with ingame marker macros very easily but raiders want to cheat
Nah he's right, I think the same issue applies to XIV as well. You either have brain dead content that ramps up in difficulty and complexity extremely slowly along the expansions, or turbonerd stuff where one player being out of position wipes the entire team instantly, or if the team survives said frick up, wipes the entire team later on due to lost DPS when the boss hits enrage.
There should be more "mid" difficulty trials and raids where the bosses have difficult to dodge movesets (possibly even randomized moveset order), but where one player failing doesn't result in instadeath. I don't know why the devs don't use soft rather than hard enrages either: something like a gradually ramping up boss power or increased mechanic speed could be used instead of total party wipe, to incentivize the team including DPS roles to play well.
Last I played the game also had several balance issues in plot boss fights, like something like Shiva, Leviathan and Shinryu have so low HP they don't even get to go through their entire moveset before dying in normal mode.
>There should be more "mid" difficulty trials and raids
Those exist, you either complain they're too easy or too hard and then when they endlessly try to cater to brainless shit eaters like you you just complain that it has no rewards
Literally the same rewards as an ultimate yet people pretend ultimates are good for some reason, a title no one with sense wears, a shitty piece of glam, and I think a furniture piece?
So it has more than ultimates, actually.
6 months ago
Anonymous
So just to be clear, you think Ultimate and Criterion are analogous in terms of experience? You believe the reward for ultimate isn't specifically the bragging rights of climbing what's specifically designed to the peak of the hardest content in the game?
Open with your answer to these things specifically so I can dismiss you as an idiot if you truly think these two things are analogous.
The issues I mentioned existed in EX and Unreal last I played. How about trying to come up with something better than a strawman ad hominem? >you just complain that it has no rewards
This is an actual issue as well, not because I personally care about rewards since I do roulettes for their own sake, but because the vast majority of player base isn't incentivized to play the actual fricking game. There's lot of perfectly fine content left to rot.
>New MMO from Blizzard veterans wants to avoid the UI mod “arms race” of World of Warcraft
Cool can't wait till it gets cancelled like all the other MMOs
>new israelite shit by israelites wants to avoid people making it slightly less israelited so israelites can steal more time and money
Lol frick you israelites
daily reminder that this game is just going to be some low effort shovelware Kaplan shits out for a basic salary because he's too lazy to work at Riot and is essentially semi-retirement
this topic is so charged with mixed emotions that I can't even talk about it properly.
I don't want to discourage tourist devs who want to make an MMO.
I don't want to say it will be good, because it fricking won't.
I don't want to pretend I'm okay, and the mmos are good, because they're fricking not, none of them.
and I don't want to upset Ganker with a diarrhea post of vitriol.
You can’t just randomly make a new mmo and “write a good story” the actual story and character writing really don’t matter
What matters is having an expansive world with decent lore that people are already familiar with and invested in and will want to dive into right out of the gate
That was the secret sauce in wow, we’d been getting the top down view of azeroth for over a decade, getting to step into the pov of just one of the soldiers in the armies we had controlled was unreal immersion
RTS series to mmo payoff is easily the best, unintentional, writing techniques in video games
>The game with the "genius behind megaman" utterly tanked and failed. >Many games have aimed to be the "WoW killer" and failed >But we have to take these "ex-WoW devs" like they know the secret and will totally take down WoW
Why? This is going on a WatchMojo top 10 list of failed MMOs in 5 years.
Just wondering, where does it say that it's a wow killer? There are dozens of mmos on the market that get along fine without killing wow. Just because you gays got stuck investing your whole life into one game and drowned in sunk cost fallacy doesn't mean anyone else cared after 2004.
For all it's faults, vanilla wow started st level 1. A lot of games just let you rush to endgame and treat leveling as a chore.
What I'm still confused about is that no MMO made a Civilian playstyle and just copied Harvest Moon/ Star Dew Valley comfy farming autism.
>no MMO made a Civilian playstyle and just copied Harvest Moon/ Star Dew Valley comfy farming autism.
Maybe OSRS skilling? It's no Harvest Moon, though. I want to say Black Desert has some farming stuff like that, too, but I haven't played it myself.
You can pretty much play BDO by ignoring combat if you want to.
Only thing you'd need combat for is gathering blood, meat, and hunting and one-shotting deer isn't really "combat" anyway
Why? I was in the camp that didn’t like wow basically going seasonal but having replayed through the classic expansions now where you still raid mc/gruul while naxx/bt are out its just annoying and boring to go back and smash content you vastly outgear because of a single massively over budgeted item
Every single raid in the history of wow is overgeared by the gear that drops in said raid, are you suggesting that the raids should instead be tuned up to not be clearable until youve slowly farmed through each bosses loot table one at a time or that the gear they drop should be tuned down such that it feels pointless to clear the raid and be awarded such minute upgrades
they should move away from end-game content being a binary "do you clear or not" mold
new upgrades should allow you to clear the bosses more without stopping to regather supplies (which shouldn't be stackable) and faster
to do this they need to redesign rewards tables to make it worthwhile to do the content many times - lots of tradeable loot, in other words (although you also need to move away so much from powercreeping every single slot)
>Every single raid in the history of wow is overgeared by the gear that drops in said raid
this has not been true since like wod, where you often have a higher ilvl than the raid drops because they've added so much welfare loot
every single mythic raid is tuned to be cleared in heroic ilvl gear, full mythic ilvl is overgearing the content
6 months ago
Anonymous
that's totally wrong, it's tuned to be beatable after you've been opening your weekly chest for a free ilvl bump for a month, or doing mythic+ on the side to get free mythic gear, rarely does anyone need the gear from a mythic boss besides stuff like trinkets
6 months ago
Anonymous
4 pieces of vault loot isn’t getting you to mythic lvl and neither is end of dungeon m+ gear
6 months ago
Anonymous
iirc mythic+ loot caps out at the same ilvl as mythic raids while being MUCH easier and farmable to a certain extent, everyone i knew that was mythic ilvl got it from dungeons not raids
6 months ago
Anonymous
only briefly last season after the timegated crest cap allowed you to upgrade every slot and before they added the myth upgrade track, this tier and every tier before end of dungeon m+ loot is not on par with mythic raid loot
I don't mind that at all. What I do mind is that they're creating another MMO with WoW combat, instanced dungeons/raids and even sharding where you'll have randomly generated singleplayer shards and optional multiplayer shards. Ghostcrawler left Riot to make this and I'm glad he did because this is awful. There is still hope for the Riot MMO.
You can make a successful MMO if you're not a complete moron trying to make "AAA WoW/FFIV clone, but worse and without the sunk cost"
PoE is effectively an MMO.
RotMG is successful despite looking like garbage and having incredibly simple gameplay.
Shouldn't this read "AND isn't going full Final Fantasy 14"? Because FFXIV is the most modder-friendly MMO right now. Their API far exceeds what WoW can do, and there's zero consequences for botting and automating everything.
>Blizzard veterans
This doesn't mean anything any more. Fricking WoD is almost 10 years old, so the devs that shat that out could be considered veterans at this point
>Be Ghostcrawler >Hire people who are more skilled than you >Throw a hissy fit that they dont even need you >Use your family members dying as an excuse to get out of your contract with Riot but come up with the public excuse you didnt like being in full control of the project >Have the brilliant plan to switch from one overlord to the next(Tencent to Netease) surely they will let me retain full control and i can kick people out when they hurt my feefees right? >Claim the game will be unique >Announced features have been in other mmo's for years already
>we don't want to do something
i always take that as, we can't do it because we don't have the talent and expertise to fit that in our already very large budget
>already just making a game that only fixes some popular games problems instead of being new refreshing unique
if I could go back in time I would erase blizzard and the WoW team
I was questioning this recently. You have a bunch of addons doing a bunch of weird shit in lots of games. Is there no way to simply not allow clients to access certain backend info? Seems fricking moronic to let people data mine your shit, to be honest. Same with cheating in an FPS, couldn't that be solved with restricted server-client communication. You can't see someone through a wall if the client isn't tacitly informed of another playing technically being behind the wall.
I'd understand if the internet was still slow but it's fast as frick now. Surely we'd be able to do something similar, no?
Things that calculate or tabulate client side and or use external servers to function will never be stopped but those are typically less intrusive and or affect interaction with other players less.
>Is there no way to simply not allow clients to access certain backend info?
That's basically what a modding API does. It only lets mods touch things the developers choose to let them. Weird shit only happens when either the devs forget to close off something that wasn't supposed to be available, or when mod devs figure out some creative solutions the devs didn't foresee. For example, WoW used to let players draw markers on the floor and share those with others using the same mod. Sounds innocent and useful, right? Then someone automated it to mark danger and safe zones for boss abilities. Whoops. That capability was quickly killed dead.
Now, if the modding's done through a third party program and not an official API, all bets are off.
afaik WoW endorses addons but until CPUs start launching your OS or even individual games in local VM/container black boxes there's no way to stop memory manipulation and this is actually the direction conglomerates like Microsoft want to move for dual use nefarious reasons. Microsoft Pluton which is included as a hardware feature on all new CPUs is a lite version of this to groom users into accepting the next stage. While the features would benefit game security and basically kill cheating overnight it's actually the shitty american version of a cyberpunk dystopia where your computer becomes a walled garden of approved programs and companies will heavily abuse licensing deplatforming censorship monopolizing. It's the epitome of >say unapproved thing anywhere >lose license access to everything on your PC >you can buy another fortnite license for $5.99!
for everything
>Is there no way to simply not allow clients to access certain backend info?
The vast majority of WoW addons just use data the game is sending to the client but displaying in frickingly moronic ways.
Or adding data that are in any random half-assed WoW Wiki and should have been provided by the game directly.
Haven't played WoW since TBC released but thinking back 15 years ago or whatever, it is insane how moddable a multiplayer game like that was. It's not like Hoxhod from Payday 2 where you don't have to hold a button any more or some shit. There were things you got to see that weren't even intended, it really teeter tottered on cheats. For example, I don't think there was any way to see what your target was targeting in the default UI, but you could with UI mods. You could get 3D models of your targets too, which technically gives you an advantage being able to see what their gear is.
I have no idea what it's like today though.
>"Not going FF14"
u mean how the game gives you the basic control over where to place UI and size? cuz thats pretty much the only good thing about 14. (and my biggest complaint on other MMOs. they always have absolute shit UI, considering the game is "watch UI the game".
>UI mod "arms race" of WoW >full FFXIV
This is literally just a consequence of combat language in both games. It's extremely easy in 99% of FFXIV encounters to understand what a boss is doing by simply looking at the warning signals and approximating, and if you get hit, generally it won't be enough to instantly kill you (though the resultant vuln stacks and raidwide attacks). It's comparatively almost impossible to know what a WoW boss is doing because they refuse to simply make consistent warnings and wind-ups for boss mechanics for players to evade. The reason why you have DBM+Weakaura for literally 100% of WoW encounters is the same reason why most people will immediately shun you in in XIV for having anything even similar to those in literally any encounter (Ultimates included).
Its not just that. WA is because of information bloat. Every class has like half a dozen things to keep track of, even outside of mechanics and raid frames (when relevant). Every class has its head buried in these inane little class mechanics and cooldowns, but because only about 6 things are really ever relevant, only those things need to be displaced. Hence many of the WA HUDs putting the mere handful of things that are relevant front and center.
The game is well over a decade beyond needing a 'sequel' that would allow them to start from scratch to make coherent systems.
One thing I like about ffxiv is that if a boss was faces the tank and then turns around you should know it’s about to do a move that will hit you. Think pretty much all
Bosses and mobs have tells when they are about to attack you even when aoe isn’t on the floor
The reason why modern MMOs don't work is because they are all single player games you pay a monthly fee for. Classic WoW was praised because it wasn't a sandbox MMO but that's also why WoW is in the shitter it's in. The theme park/story driven MMO isn't sustainable in the long run and requires way to much work and quality control. This is why shit like Ever quest, Albion, EVE, black desert are all still alive and thriving while the only 2 story driven MMOs are Warcaft, which is on the line of being complet shit and FF, which is weeb garbage becoming worse because they can't keep up with good story content.
>isn't going full ff14
You mean they aren't allowing 3rd party tools while pretending they don't so the players can't dishonestly go around acting like smarmy purists about it?
yeah but if i have to set it up or try to find out why it's not working cause of some small patch that throws everything into chaos then it's fricking annoying,i already know enough people who play wow or xiv who cry like children when one of their mods isn't working for 5 minutes and i dont want to deal with all that extra shit
NTA but needing stuff to download just to raid is the dumbest thing even and I can’t see how people who play wow think they are so hardcore when a program is yelling at them what to do and you have to have one installed or you’re not allowed to play.
you're hardcore about something when you spend a lot of time/resources/mindspace on an activity, to the point where you're engaging with it at every level, including meta, not when you're actually good at it.
Now, due to all that investment you'll eventually become semi-proficient to be considered "good" but it's not a requirement.
Fair enough. There's still plenty of 'hardcore' players who suck fat wieners at the game they're hardcore about.
Reminds me of when I tried WoW Dragonflight and did the first raid of that expansion completely without addons, and I was one of the few that did mechanics correctly because I've had experience with FFXIV mechanics lol
WoW is designed around addons unlike XIV. You can try to find group of no-addons enthusiasts and try some endgame raiding. it will be horrible and x10 times harder.
I don't know why the frick is this shit so hard to figure out. GW 1 had it 95% figured out already. Just polish up the remaining 5% and you will not need any addons.
It had all parts of the ui as seperate entities, and you could just hop into edit, and rescale them, reposition them, turn them on and off... just customize your UI. There you go. If you need anything more than that, its either a cheat, or you might be a moron.
Well ofc its superior. But its not needed. You don't need to reskin it, and anything beyond resizing and repositioning or splitting up parts would be going into the territory of autimation, and at that point its just cheating.
I'll never get you homosexual's obsession with having to play the most popular MMO.
There's so many MMOs with populations in the 20k-200k range that are perfectly good and enjoyable out there for all kinds of taste.
But no, gotta play the shit with the most marketing because ???
Are they starting a new studio and immediately going for the mmo genre? cause that seems really moronic imo. Why not prove to players you actually know how to make a game with some smaller projects first before you invest 10 years in a game that is most likely going to fail.
why would anyone buy WoW when everything is monetized? Need gold WoW token, all the new sets are put in the shop non shop gear is basic and ugly, new mounts in shop, free mounts are recolor, 15$ sub fee game btw also 100 $ expansions.
Because if you don't buy all that you're a chud incel sexist racist who needs to check their privilege. Or at least that's what Blizzard's dragon isle ads told me.
Nobody can create something interesting anymore because it has to be quirky real-fantasy where you have to include everyone, their mother and their dog and not have racial bonuses/female characters that are too attractive/actual interesting story telling because that's somehow an "ism" etc. Unless they're getting money from Saudis or China, put a fork in it preemptively, it's a fricking trash heap from inception. Nothing like warcraft can ever be made again.
Even the japs have to mumble something like an apology because they didn't include snoop dogg smoking joints and firing AKs in the background in their dragon riding magic sword shit PS5 exclusive that bombed.
tl;dr pray for an industry crash so the deadwood and parasites are burnt away, there's no other chance to make anything interesting otherwise.
>it won't have as good of an MMO gameplay loop as WoW >It has no established fanbase and legacy like WoW >It won't have raids as good as FFXIV >It won't have story as good as FFXIV >it won't have sexy races like FFXIV >At most it'll have LE GRAFIX like Lost Ark (lol)
Geniuenly who is this going to be for? It's never going to overthrow the MMO Kings
Well yeah, if you're designing an RPG you probably want to avoid taking cues from coin operated arcade shmups.
FFXIV's philosophy is pretty transparently "we don't FRICKING CARE just don't be loud about it"
They don't even give a shit about making porn with the game so long as it doesn't have any SE copyright info in the picture (you're not using the in-game screenshot tool)
>FFXIV's philosophy is pretty transparently "we don't FRICKING CARE just don't be loud about it"
YoshiP literally just put out a release where he whined about addons and addon users. They pretend to care about addons and then don't do anything about them. Full stop.
all MMORPGs released in the past 10 years are complete dogshit, so i'm not sure what point you thought you were making.
6 months ago
Anonymous
All right, anon, what would you say was the last good MMORPG? Go on, tell the class.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Well yeah, if you're designing an RPG you probably want to avoid taking cues from coin operated arcade shmups.
[...] >FFXIV's philosophy is pretty transparently "we don't FRICKING CARE just don't be loud about it"
YoshiP literally just put out a release where he whined about addons and addon users. They pretend to care about addons and then don't do anything about them. Full stop.
>FFXIV >good raids
FFXIV raids are all just floating circles you teleport to from an arcade menu. it's not hard to beat that.
Anyone responding to this homosexual would be better off taking the nearest hardware tool and slamming it into their balls for all thegood either would do.
Do not feed the trolls.
in FFXIV the *only* way to enter a raid is through a menu. even when you go to the """"entrance"""" you just click on a little blue thing in the world, which then opens a menu.
even in WoW the raids still have discernible physical locations in the world, and you can only teleport to them on the lowest possible difficulty.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Okay.
Give me one raeson why I should care.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I didn't say you should care. I said the raids are badly designed.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>the raids are badly designed because the way to enter them is a method I don't like
Okay, anon. Tell me why the RAIDS are bad, not why the fricking doormat is the wrong shade of brown.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Tell me why the RAIDS are bad
I did already. Are you illiterate? They're not even raids, they're an arcade touhou minigame.
6 months ago
Anonymous
just castrate yourself and save us all the trouble of endlessly responding to an obvious troll
6 months ago
Anonymous
The doormat doesn't exist. The porch and front door don't exist either.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>engaging with an autismo and expecting rationality
hopefully this has been a lesson for u anon, they're basically women, but with anger issues.
YoshiP "literally" talks about that at least once every expansion and still doesn't amend ToS or actually crack down any more seriously than he did before.
>"Blizzard Veterans"
Then those morons must be the from the accounting department because there is no way someone who actually worked on WoW during its glory day could think UI addons are anywhere near the reason the game started sucking.
99% of Addons just added shit that should have been there from the beginning if the UI team hadn't been the laziest group in the entire company, and the remaining 1% are "why the frick are you wasting bandwidth sending data to the client if its not supposed to use them?"-tier.
... then again most "veteran" of the vidya industry turn into complete cretins after a few decade of chasing their peak, so maybe.
In both case the project is DoA, fricking great.
FFXIV's philosophy is pretty transparently "we don't FRICKING CARE just don't be loud about it"
They don't even give a shit about making porn with the game so long as it doesn't have any SE copyright info in the picture (you're not using the in-game screenshot tool)
That's a delusion. They've stated several times that they oppose the use of mods. The modding community has a collective psychosis where they think "don't" = "do" and use it as an excuse to literally cheat in PvP using speed hack mods, etc. Total delusion. I would be so blackpilled if I was an FFXIV developer who had to deal with the community who flat out ignores your warnings and puts words in your mouth. They NEVER said "we don't care, just don't be loud about it"
they're trying to treat the ToS as gospel when they also know full well that >ToS only applies if you get reported for it or a GM catches you doing it in the wild >we have most of the game's lifespan to become familiar with the idea that modding works on a don't-ask-don't-tell basis >the secret third thing: nobody actually gives a shit about cheating unless it's ranked PvP or ultimate world first races, since FFXIV doesn't really have anything else that's "worth" cheating in
It's double-speak.
They say they don't want add-ons to appeal to casuals and normies who look at screenshots of WoW raiding and reflexively vomit.
But they'll allow them because it lets fight designers get lazy as frick and just delegate to the playerbase on how tells are given.
Bethesda syndrome:
They want their playerbase to fix the biggest problems in their place.
But they still want to be able to nuke what you do if they don't like it.
If your game is played in a user interface instead of in the fricking game world then you have fricked up, your combat design is trash and you need to do better. I should be able to play your game with the UI turned off without any serious detriment.
FFXIV boss battles are interesting on their own but they're very far away from RPG people want in MMO. The closest thing to this was BA in Eureka. XIV battles are designed for same setups (2 melee dps, 2 ranged dps, 2 tanks, 2 healers) with almost same dance. It's all about damage and long ass rotation. Even WoW in current state is different. People want something like in XI but modern. You don't need button bloat either. GW has only 8 active skills but it was MMO with biggest amount of builds.
They nerfed the frick out of it, but on release you needed niche shit like "sleep". There were centaurs that were immune to all CC except for sleep and if they enraged they would wipe you. BA was full of puzzles and fun little things to explore the first time everyone went in. Of course, the week 1 eureka players were going in blind trying to figure everything out. It was an amazing experience. There was more love and effort put into BA then the usual raidslop.
>The closest thing to this was BA in Eureka
Almost forgot. AND open world giga bosses. You get like 2 of them per Expansion. However this is casual content so they're designed to be easy
>People WANT overworld mobs to be unsoloable >People WANT to be forced to spend hours grinding mobs >People WANT bullshit loot drops and drama >People WANT 'if you play this class you're not allowed in this group' >People WANT to lose XP and hours of progress through a single frickup
No
No they don't.
They really, really don't. There's a reason this style of MMO fell out of favor.
>but isn't going full FF!4
FF14 IS a mod race. It's just against the rules in the ToS. The devs never really take action unless they have concrete evidence like the Omega fiasco. You can have 7 out of 8 members in your static cheating and as long as the one guy streaming is clean the devs can't do shit.
Vanilla wow is literally the perfect combination of modernized but not hand holdy, themepark but with a sense of freedom and adventure, grindy but rewarding
All they had to do was not let half of the specs in the game be completely useless (ie tbc class design)
No, neither of them are worth anything at all. It's sunk cost and nothing else that keeps both going just look at the average age of the audience during the recent blizzcon.
I mean, what else is there? No one's releasing new MMORPGs nowadays and if they do they're total fricking disasters, like almost fricking consistently. And generally MMOs kinda lost their niche, no one cares about talking to other people and shit in-game anymore, you have your Discords for that. So the games essentially boil down to random group content and shit which you can experience on a variety of other games anyway.
MMOs are gone. They've been replaced by bite-sized experiences like Fortnite, Deep Rock Galactic, and games like Path of Exile. We will never have trully 'Massive' MMOs ever again other than the games that already exist.
I just started to get into black desert. The gearing mechanic has become to astronomically unachievable that I will just have my fun on a seasonal server instead. Combat is fun, world is lively, characters are pretty and I have content that will last me years if not decades.
>I just started to get into black desert.
I went into that game with an open mind. But the UI made me want to kill myself, doing anything felt like going on a pop-up filled porn website in the early 2010s.
I can see that and you have to adjust your UI some. I was forced to do this because I wanted to play it on my Steam Deck anyway. It's a bit of a mess on 800p at first, but I made it work and now it's great.
He means not officially banning addons, but not exposing as much information to addon devs as Blizzard does. Yes, you can mod the frick out of FF14 to the point where you can be a jacked 20' tall futa demon lady, have telegraphs come out before a cast bar even starts, projected textures that tell you exactly where to stand as well as the exact pixel of your hitbox, and you can play an entire shitty pop song for yourself and your friends every time you use a skill but all of that is technically not allowed.
maybe but 14 is the only current MMO where if the world race happens and you're chaught using any kind of guidance mods or anything that would make the current ultimate easier you will be actually stripped of everything outright and then banned for a time. I remembered recently that a whole ass group of Japanese players that got shitcanned for basically modifying the games camera so it could be zoomed out all the way giving a view to the entire battle arena of omega. The fricker that did it got shamed so hard he deleted his character and quit ffxiv after his ban was up.
ffxiv devs don't actually care about mods. they only care about outrage
they don't give a shit when you report people for speedhacking or teleporting under the floor, but if it blows up on social media then you may be assured they will jump on it like starving dogs
They want more official addon support than FFXIV has, which is none. Note that FFXIV over the years incorporated multiple mods into the game and will also not go out if its way to ban you for mods unless you're streaming yourself using them.
It died from only having niche hardcore appeal (other than the housing which was superior to xivs housing in every way), the servers being garbage and the cartoony artstyle+in your face ironic epic narrator, thematically the game was just a mess and almost seemed to be inherently off putting as if to say “yea well if you care about this being intentionally bad then you weren’t hardcore enough anyway”
>wanted to be the hardcore mmo >not knowing only a few people liked that shit and didn’t have anything casual
They shouldn’t have listed to the muh hardcore community
before you get your hope up lets review the team >cuck previous wow devs who has done nothing in 20 years >pvp wow dev who has done nothing >sjws females
and gameplay >you have to make alts to play different jobs >instance area, but 10000x worse then ff14 >garbage story telling
>yeah lemme just restart the game over again and do the same quests again because I wanna try one of the games' 30 classes! >THIS IS TOTALLY NOT ANNOYING!
WoWgays can only blindly follow add-ons and guides and questing is technically faster than dungeons. So its just running the exact same track of quests every time you make a new character
Yes playing an alt will always result in repeating content, the mindbroken xiv poster is the only one who wont acknowledge that
My argument is just that wow has a larger breadth of old content to do to keep it more fresh
6 months ago
Anonymous
>side quests you didn't do >dungeon spam >POTD/HOH >fates
none of these count as leveling options but >collect 40 bear asses >collect 40 felbear asses >collect 40 frozen bear asses >collect 40 charbroiled bear asses >collect 40 general tso's bear asses >collect 40 orcbear asses >collect 40 demonbear asses >collect 40 azuritebear asses >collect 40 ghostbear asses >collect 40 gay centaur romance novels
is meaningful content to level an alt through
6 months ago
Anonymous
>side quests >to level
why are ffxiv defenders so relentlessly ingenuous
6 months ago
Anonymous
>side quests you didn't do
Lol. Dogshit exp >dungeon spam
This is how you play in XIV >POTD/HOH
Meme for insane people. Worse exp gain than dungeon spam. Even more repetitive. >fates
Meme
Do you even play XIV?
6 months ago
Anonymous
>nononono those don't count its not optimal!!!!!!!!
seethe wowbuck
6 months ago
Anonymous
KYS subhuman XIV cultist Black person. I hate you.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Not even subscribed for a year
Lol, lmao even
6 months ago
Anonymous
seethe and cope wowbuck
6 months ago
Anonymous
In ffxiv you can level up by doing fates, sidequests, bozja, and PvP aswell. I know when I did shb and ew I did random fates and side quests as I was gathering stuff. Sidequests match your level and give decent rewards so you shouldn’t skip them.
and being forced to spam the same dungeons is better?
you literally are moronic if you think it is the same. I rather just level my job with my main character then swapping to a different character who might be in a different server with a different name. moron
>level my job
We know you're XIV troony who hates MMOs
6 months ago
Anonymous
you’re right, it’s not the same
in ffxiv if you want to level an alt job then your only option is to spam the exact same dungeons you spammed to level your previous jobs in roulettes
in wow you can quest through literally any of the previous 8 expansions zones as you see fit, or any of their dungeons or pvp
wow has shit the bed in many ways but it absolutely mogs xivs alt leveling experience
>unironically defending the dogshit that is dealing with alts >doing the same quests you've done a dozen times is actually le good!
6 months ago
Anonymous
explain how doing the same roulettes you’ve done hundreds of times is le good
6 months ago
Anonymous
>doing the same quests you've done a dozen times is actually le good!
Yes. Buy level boost, troony.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>buy a level boost, troony
yes we know WoWgays love giving all their money to Bobby
you’re right, it’s not the same
in ffxiv if you want to level an alt job then your only option is to spam the exact same dungeons you spammed to level your previous jobs in roulettes
in wow you can quest through literally any of the previous 8 expansions zones as you see fit, or any of their dungeons or pvp
wow has shit the bed in many ways but it absolutely mogs xivs alt leveling experience
hah
HAHAHAH
try playing the game, wow questing is so dead they had to add cross-realm group finders just so people could actually get groups for elite quests
>you have to make alts to play different jobs
Can't wait to have to redo the same mandatory endgame grind dozens of times just so they can pad playtime stats.
Addons kill content. It's why several WoW raids are overtuned garbage that is almost unintelligible to play without mods. The devs ended up making content that assumed you were using mods and it is BAD.
>make disallowing modification sound virtuous >blizzard sloptroughers get to slurpin'
You could tell them DRM was actually a good thing and they'd defend it
>"fit into your life" >is MORE WoW than XIV >have to make new characters to try other classes
lying to the players face with their first announcement is not a good look
>have to make new characters to try other classes
please for the love of god explain how this is meaningfully different than starting a new job at level 1
>don't have to do attunements >have travelling options like mount/teleports/portals >have gear from winning greed rolls to jumpstart gear >XP boosts for having jobs leveled already
>don't have to do attunements
attunements don’t exist anymore and even if they did they could be solved with account wide credit >have travelling options like mount/teleports/portals
can all also just be account wide unlocks (see wow) >have gear from winning greed rolls to jumpstart gear
you can send boe gear to an alt to jumpstart them >XP boosts for having jobs leveled already
heirlooms did this in wow or you could implement xivs armory system account wide
one character doesn’t provide any unique solutions to these while also limiting your freedom as a player to make whatever characters you want
if you just want a catgirl warrior and wizard and cleric you can do that in a game with alts too but you cannot have a dwarf warrior and an elf wizard and a human cleric in a one character game
>uhhhhhh those reasons you listed don't matter because..... they just don't see blizzard removed them anyway!
Nothing stops you from making an elf character and a dwarf character, WoWgays seem to lack the understanding that if they want to mindlessly slog through the same quests over and over they can make alts like morons
6 months ago
Anonymous
Nobody said they don’t matter, I said that single character design doesn’t give answers to them that alt character design cant also provide while not being inherently restricting like single character
6 months ago
Anonymous
why is having to redo the entire game to try another class better than it just being a class change option?
6 months ago
Anonymous
you don’t have to “redo the entire game” you have to re-level, just like you have to re-level in ffxiv when you start a new job
In XIV low level gameplay is pure dogshit. Everything designed for max lvl. Your job doesn't even function until you reach current level cap. This is because they re-balance skills with every expansion without care about leveling. Plus the story. Everything in XIV is locked behind the MSQ. Leveling up raid alt is PAIN in XIV.
This is not an issue in other MMOs. And why is it better to level up new character? Resets. And technically more gameplay if your game has "soulbound" gear.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>its better because you get to run on the gearscore hamster wheel more!
6 months ago
Anonymous
Yes. Why would you play something you dislike? If you don't like raids just don't raid. If you don't like gearing up character in RPG (you don't like RPG) just listen
The "game" you are asking for has already been released and it's called VR Chat. Go ERP in a chatroom troony.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>if you don't like being forced to do a set amount of raids, dungeons, PVP, and whatever gimmick of the expansion so you can spin the weekly slot machine to maybe get a copy of the same item you already have but with 2 more stamina then you don't like RPGs!
wowbucks are this moronic
6 months ago
Anonymous
>sees opinion he doesn’t like >strawmans it to the extreme
yep its a xivtroony
6 months ago
Anonymous
>y-y-y-you can't state actual shit WoW does when I strawman at you!!!
6 months ago
Anonymous
>being forced
No one is forcing you. Play a singleplayer game if you don't like raids. Play VR chat.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Weekly vault was the ultimate death of wow.
There are no players left, just rats on a treadmill chasing the dopamine hit from their bing bing wahoo slot machines.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>There are no players left
All "players" are ERPing in XIV now.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I wasn't saying WoW has no people playing it.
I was saying they don't have any actual *players* playing it.
6 months ago
Anonymous
That was awful. I did it once in BFA and it was just repellant design
6 months ago
Anonymous
The gameplay in XIV is kinda dogshit in general.
I enjoyed HW a lot, but my rotation was 26 buttons, MMO gameplay is pressing 20 keys to do prefab, stock, 'miming' animations.
6 months ago
Anonymous
That's because they simplified it for the WoW refuge's who play Retail WoW.
6 months ago
Anonymous
It was a problem even in 2.0 and 3.0.
Besides that, the GCD, the netcode, XIV just doesn't feel good to play.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I feel the same way about post-legion wow
6 months ago
Anonymous
I don't like WoW anymore either, I play MonHun now.
But even as someone who has no real attachment to either game, WoW always felt much better to play.
6 months ago
Anonymous
WoW is just spam buttons activate procs game play. There is not thought or skill.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Inb4 pressing a lot of buttons is the only thing that matters
6 months ago
Anonymous
In his defense, the gameplay was better when WoW rotations were more complex
6 months ago
Anonymous
>when WoW rotations were more complex
WoW rotations are more complex right now than they've ever been before. Not sure what you thought you were trying to say here. People are actually complaining that the game is too complex and it's scaring away new people.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Then that's entirely new. They were stripped down significantly in Legion, and that persisted into BFA and SL.
6 months ago
Anonymous
You're acting as if I like either game.
I am only saying WoW felt better to play, which it did.
6 months ago
Anonymous
it is objectively a bad game to play.
6 months ago
Anonymous
You're right about the netcode at least. I remember even the reticules often weren't accurate
6 months ago
Anonymous
Rotations are bad. This is how perfection looks like. Even ESO despite all flaws is probably one of the rare MMO with some sort of horizontal progression and build variety.
6 months ago
Anonymous
umm but these arent rotations? you posted some 8 man/bots party build for guild wars 1 wtf lmao
6 months ago
Anonymous
>umm but these arent rotations?
You missed the point.
6 months ago
Anonymous
what point? you claim guild wars 1 pve content to be perfection (the builds in the picture have pve only abilities). it was a good game but not because pve kek. ill give you a hint. its in the title
6 months ago
Anonymous
>it was a good game but not because pve kek
it was good in both pve and pvp kek read reply chain gw1 has only 8 buttons yet it can dab on any xiv 300 button static rotation
6 months ago
Anonymous
I remember having a three button rotation well into level 40. Fricking dogshit game.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>In XIV low level gameplay is pure dogshit. Everything designed for max lvl. Your job doesn't even function until you reach current level cap.
No one's gonna deny this, but early level WoW gameplay is also ass. Neither are good and neither are situations you wanna stay in. >Everything in XIV is locked behind the MSQ.
Good. >Leveling up raid alt is PAIN in XIV.
Because you can play any other job on the same character. >And why is it better to level up new character? Resets.
Why would you need an alt if you can play all the same jobs on one character, and gear is soulbound anyway so you can't funnel it from your alt to your main regardless.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Because you can play any other job on the same character.
RAID ALT anon >Why would you need an alt if you can play all the same jobs on one character
RESETS
6 months ago
Anonymous
>RAID ALT anon
For what purpose, anon? >RESETS
For what purpose, anon?
6 months ago
Anonymous
Are you EX-only xiv player? In 99% mmos (modern mmos) you can clear raid (real) only once per week. With loot.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Methinks you just got wowbrain.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Methinks you don't play MMO and just shitposting. Old mmos had spawn timer for bosses.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Old mmos had
And?
You don't need alts for a game where you can play literally every job on the same character. That's for games where you can only play one job a character, and you're trying hard to insert it into games where that isn't the case.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>You don't need alts for a game where you can play literally every job on the same character.
Re-read my post. Are you EX-only xiv player? Because Savages in XIV are weekly locked too. You can roll only once per week.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Because Savages in XIV are weekly locked too. You can roll only once per week.
And???
This is what I mean: wowbrain.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Raid alts are for people who want to raid with 2 different groups at the same time. If he's doing 2 raids with the same group/PF then yeah, he's fricking mazed to the maximum
6 months ago
Anonymous
>And???
Re-readly reply chain about raid alts. I'm done with you. You got your answer, explanation and reason.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, like I said: wowbrain. You have a legion of alts in wow, so every mmo needs to be the same in your eyes.
I've played FFXIV up to the end of Heavensward for the first time a couple days ago and it was pretty alright I'd say, but if every theme park MMORPG is a variation of this I can see why this genre's kind of dead save for the big games.
A lot of the game seems pretty transparently designed to waste your time so you'll stay longer, walk around more and make the world feel more populated. Then once you've done all that a lot of the time the reward boils down to a bunch of text to read and some collectible you don't really care about. It's good text, but walking -> text -> walking is one hell of a slow experience, and the act of traveling the world itself is boring and sucks.
You play a game designed around a tight gameplay loop or a match-based format of play and you get the type of gameplay you like with none of the filler, and the devs can make it better and more in-depth by just focusing on that one activity. You just play a game like Rust/DayZ if you want the wolves-eating-noobs wild west PvP and the social element that comes with it, or a battle royale if you want that minus the time investment gap where you get squatted on by people that have played on the server and amassed resources longer than you. I guess MOBAs are sorta like a leveling and faction PvP experience rolled into one and heavily abridged to like 30-45 minutes a pop. If you want a multiplayer boss fight game you could just play Monster Hunter I guess (though I don't know any boss fight game that basically has raid-style mechanics dodging combat like an MMORPG).
What wow players fail to understand is that FFXIV isn't popular because it made a better raid and grindathon. It's popular because it does everything outside of dungeons and combat better than in wow.
Since you're at the beginning, the game does have an issue with the fact that you're playing a super long tutorial for basically 20 hours before you get to see what the game is truly about. Every player agrees it's an annoying filter.
Most players aren't playing FFXIV to raid. It's part sims and part virtual novel with a simple gameplay loop. You can have a shit load of fun designing a house, crafting is extremely comfy because you have fun animations and can dress up in aprons and coats. Quests are genuinely well written, better than anything in wow. I'd say the worst FFXIV quest is better than most wow quests.
Dressing up is great because you have so many options for actually outfits.
Seriously, look at wow, what does it offer outside of combat? The armors are fricking 2d paint. Crafting doesn't matter and it's not fun whatsoever, there's no housing, dressing up is fricking tedious and you're constantly looking like a moronic clown all the time until you can get a transmog, the quests are objectively horrible, the characters are annoying as frick and nobody likes them.
WoW has nothing to do in between patches. Highest M+ keys can be done in the first week and the raid as well. Then what do you do for the next year until the patch comes out?
>crafting in wow >you watch a meter as your character does the mining animation or wrings their hands together >99% of crafting outside of making mounts is worthless past the first day or two of the recipe being added
all crafting is just turning raw rocks into finished items in one step
vs >crafting in XIV >every crafter is its own job >all of them have unique gear and animations >crafting is interlinked as items needs the materials made by other jobs >crafted items remain relevant as catch-up gear
This is obviously one thing that's irrefutable. Crafting in XIV feels so much better, and WoW devs have some weird hangup about crafters having access to good gear.
>every crafter is its own job >all of them have unique gear and animations
This is just a lie. Everything is fricking reskin. Same rotations just different icon. In 1.0 crafters had unique minigames
>wowbuck thinks these three jobs are copypasted with the same gear
6 months ago
Anonymous
>anon thinks that gear matters genuinely whatsoever
BiS is cross-class. Nobody dedicates glamours to crafting jobs because that's insane. They all share literally 100% of their abilities with every job of that type - which is exactly what they want to do with tanks.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>moving goalposts once again
6 months ago
Anonymous
Didn't even read your discussion with the other guy. Just wanted to point out you were arguing in supremely bad faith if you actually try to imply to that job-specific crafting set gear actually matters, to people who are likely ignorant of the fact you're arguing utter half-truths.
6 months ago
Anonymous
seethe and cope
giving the crafting and gathering actual flavor and uniqueness is good
6 months ago
Anonymous
They're literally the same. As in: I use the same macros to AFK while playing them with no adjustment. It was homogenised ages ago. What year are you from?
6 months ago
Anonymous
>unique gear >unique animations
why does jobs having flavor seem to mindbreak wowgays so badly?
6 months ago
Anonymous
>he's still trying
Your gear has copypasted stats. Literally. And your crafting rotations have only different icons. >FSH
gathering not crafting. And yeah I know FSH has unique gameplay Again in 1.0 crafters had unique minigames
6 months ago
Anonymous
sir you posted a gathering job
wowgathering jobs have the exact same issue with its crafting >just your character doing the mining animation or wringing their hands
6 months ago
Anonymous
the only gathering job that has actual gameplay in ffxiv is fsh. btn and min are literally just >press the same 2 - 3 buffs >collect item
or for epheremal nodes >press 1 buff 2 times >collect item
6 months ago
Anonymous
Heres a test for you. What profession is the XIV character? What Professions does the WoW character have
6 months ago
Anonymous
i don't really see how that is relevant. i was under the impression that we were discussion gameplay and at any rate, if we want to talk about aesthetics, both ffxiv and wow have glamors (ironically the system in ffxiv is much worse)
6 months ago
Anonymous
>every crafter/gatherer in XIV has unique gear and animations >claim its all reskins of each other >wowgay tries to damage controls
6 months ago
Anonymous
yeah so you know what a reskin is, it's something that's aesthetically different but mechanically the same
all the crafters have skills that do the exact same things and products that are crafted in the exact same way. all the gatherers gather in the exact same way except for the fsh autists. the gear provides exactly the same benefits regardless of which job it's on
6 months ago
Anonymous
>wowgay cannot handle flavor making jobs stand out
may as well claim all healers are the same thing because they all make hp bars refill if you want to decide to just ignore the words on the screen anyway
6 months ago
Anonymous
the healers in xiv are some of the most homogenized jobs in the game. citing them is not a good look on your part
6 months ago
Anonymous
>the only gathering job that has actual gameplay in ffxiv is fsh
eh crafting is just pressing a macro until the animations finish playing and pressing it again. there are expert crafts which must have sounded good on paper but at the end of the day is just rolling dice
I would take a complete reboot of crafting tbh, it's a little confusing for me. But I do enjoy doing the beast tribe quests and looking like an honest tradie and helping cute lil critters prepare for a festival.
reboot is needed if only because crafting is way too simplified and homogenized as it is. there's zero difference in gameplay between a blacksmith and a cook. it's stupid
>It's popular because it does everything outside of dungeons and combat better than in wow.
No it doesn't. FFXIV has some of the worst world and environment design in video game history. It doesn't even really have a world, it has a bunch of floating bubbles surrounded by invisible walls that aren't geographically connected to anything else in any tactile way.
Yeah, WoW's world is significantly more complex than FFXIV's world.
FFXIV's world has: >no critters >no flying mobs >no swimming mobs >no mobs fighting one another >no NPCs in travel >no vegetation >no hidden secrets >no puzzles to solve >no minigames like dragon-riding courses >no verticality >no intricacy in its level design whatsoever >zones connected through tunnels with zero geological correspondence to the actual world map in lore >nothing but ground mobs walking in circles
>Dragonflopping is now listed as a positive
bobby isn't sending his best
though I guess he fricked off now so it's not surprising
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Dragonflopping is now listed as a positive
Why wouldn't it be? More types of gameplay is a good thing. There's nothing to brag about when the only thing you do in game is do deterministic damage rotations and barbie dress up.
>you see wow is so dead they had to add a bejeweled minigame into the actual game so you have something to do while waiting an hour for a dungeon queue so wow is better!
Look dude, I'm not going to interrupt your wow manifesto, but >you're playing a super long tutorial for basically 20 hours
is some pure cope. You're not playing all of Realm Reborn and Heavensward in that time. You're not even playing half of Realm Reborn in that time I'm pretty sure, unless you skip every cutscene along the way leaving you with only the shitty filler. Pic rel, I'm like a couple quests from Stormblood I'm pretty sure, did do some various content unlocking quests and Hildi along the way but you'll easily clock 80-90 hours getting to where I am MSQ-wise.
There are kino fights and moments in there, and the pacing(as well as VA direction) gets a LOOOOOOT better almost immediately after base game (and the final three or so 1.0 quests are light years ahead of everything else in the game immediately before or after, I heard they were reworked at some point), but it still has those stretches of nothing but fairly inconsequential dialogue and walking happening, and base game + 1 expansion isn't exactly a tutorial anymore.
It's good, I'll keep playing it, especially since I heard basically every expansion just gets better than the previous one(and it's definitely true for HW compared to base game), but it absolutely is agonizingly slow.
If other games in this genre are even a fraction as slow it's no wonder they can't hold an audience. This kind of gameplay hinges entirely on random player interactions and copious side content tiding you over until the game feels like having more "real" content.
Actually, addons were fricking cancer and most of them were basically fricking cheats that the devs ended up working into the game because people with cheats have an inherent advantage.
That said, I will be very, very surprised if this game doesn't have: >Meaningless grind of a leveling system with "the game starting at level cap" (as others have said) >Idiotic "make the numbers go up" stats and mechanics >Fast travel >Flying mounts (in a game with no verticality) >Phasing and layering >Some kind of "main story." Bonus points if the player is the Chosen One hero of said "main story." >Open world mobs that are a complete joke >Dungeons that are a complete joke outside of the bosses (maybe) >Races that are completely cosmetic if they have them at all >Classes that barely offer anything outside of the "Holy Trinity" in terms of functionality and have absolutely no flavor or fantasy >Or, better yet, a "classless" system that is, in reality, just the Holy Trinity of metagamed tank, metagamed healer and metagamed DPS. >In-game cash shop >Transmog >Instanced everything >Some kind of LFG tool that teleports you directly into the instance instead of having to physically go to a portal >Endgame based around "daylies," raid logging and sitting around in the capital city
>don't have to do attunements
attunements don’t exist anymore and even if they did they could be solved with account wide credit >have travelling options like mount/teleports/portals
can all also just be account wide unlocks (see wow) >have gear from winning greed rolls to jumpstart gear
you can send boe gear to an alt to jumpstart them >XP boosts for having jobs leveled already
heirlooms did this in wow or you could implement xivs armory system account wide
one character doesn’t provide any unique solutions to these while also limiting your freedom as a player to make whatever characters you want
if you just want a catgirl warrior and wizard and cleric you can do that in a game with alts too but you cannot have a dwarf warrior and an elf wizard and a human cleric in a one character game
After getting back into classic EQ with a private server lately and trying out the monsters & memories pre alpha test I'm 100% done with modern AAA mmorpgs, they just fricking SUCK ASS >no woke shit which means no sexy or interesting outfits at all just bland giant potato sacks like ESO >zero interesting character races and a forced mix of real world ethnicities instead >shitty and ugly character bodies - afraid to give women actual breasts and asses and afraid to make men nothing but massive muscular gods
I've had more fun playing my first mmorpg from my childhood and a pre alpha test than I have had with ANY mmorpg that's released in the last 15 years, the fact I had more fun scrapping together cash to buy vendor goods like back in the day on M & M alone is insane, can't wait for it to fully release
Are younger generations even interested in MMOs anymore? Especially given a lot of people's attention spans don't enable them to grind for 100s of hours in a single game anymore just to reach max level. It doesn't seem worth the investment for devs if you can make a significantly cheaper game in a more accessible genre like an FPS.
>Are younger generations even interested in MMOs anymore?
Given how big FF14 was for a while, I think the answer is "yes" easily.
Unfortunately the MMO market right now is in fricking shambles.
>the MMO market right now is in fricking shambles
Pure speculation, but it's likely that changes in the prevailing attitudes towards gaming as a whole and how people want to spend their time now has changed led to the decline of MMOs. Also it could be that modern MMO design fricking blows and no one wants to spend their time on a dying genre.
Did they finally fix it after the Legion gutting? What about Brewmaster? That was far and away the most tragic transition to two button rotation I've seen. Demolished it.
wowgays flooding into games is the kiss of death for it
chasing the braindead wowplayer is almost as bad for your game as unironically following the "we want the call of duty audience" trend
I really wish companies re-learned what they learned 15 years ago in that mmos are an inherently losing race, just like they had to learn again about gaas games
>new anything from Blizzard
Their game design today is deeply compromised by greed from the top down thinly veiled by political correctness. And they're in the pockets of the CCP, frick modern blizz.
This 'Ghost' MMO is basically WoW with a twist, it's gonna have WoW combat and plenty of instanced content like raids and dungeons. But they're trying to design it without timegated content like raid lockouts or weekly caps, it's gonna be interesting to see how they'll handle that one.
They got 'blue shards' that are procedurally generated singleplayer / small scale multiplayer Minecraft-like worlds and 'red shards' that are big MMO worlds that anyone can join. I don't know if I love the idea, maybe if they went in with a more action oriented approach to combat I would be more excited.
how is wanting to have distinct, thematic characters “wowbrained”?
I want a silly gnome mage, a diabolical goblin warlock and a tree hugging elf ranger
have you people never actually roleplayed beyond self insert “well I would say that!” shit?
>wowgays seethe about xiv unsolicited >end up getting btfo in a fight they started >h-heh xivtrannies r so mad i winned
I can't think of anything more pathetic than a wowgay. I think it requires literal cultlike blinding rituals to be a wowgay in the current day and age
>blizzard finally adds new seasonal event mog, mounts and toys >are they finally lear- >more trading post slop
yayyyy... everything is trading post i love it
Reminder that the FFXIV devs are so incompetent they couldn't even design a proper transition between above water and below water, a mechanic nintendo games for babies were doing in 1996 lmao.
>they couldn't even design a proper transition between above water and below water
consistency is maintained above and below water in xiv thoughever. you don't get ported to another phase. they just thought it quirky to add a transition effect. weird thing to lie about
>yes we will have addons from wow but we also crack down on them like ff14
what does that even mean? the game design is going to suffer?
Probably! FFXIV only bans mods on paper, for reference, the game has no anti-cheat and the developers really don't give a frick what you're using so long as you're not using outside tools for Ultimate world races. And even with that FFXIV has been trying to incorporate a lot of popular mods into the main game of late, i.e. role colored names for party members.
The guy in charge is going full moron and promising everything and anything.
Its also going to fail spectacularly, considering its Ghostchaser and that guy couldn't handle criticism to save his life.
>and promising everything and anything.
such as?
how dumb are you? the thread topic is an example of this. He promises to not have a mod war, yet not ban mods. He sees the tradeoffs made by two different products in how they handled a difficult problem and proposes that he can fix everything with his brand new product. he's selling to you
>its going to be fully solo focused but also mandatory multiplayer focused
>its going to be a classic MMORPG but also a survival-crafting MMO
>Iits going to be PvE focused but also PvP focused
>its going to be story focused but also living world focused
>its going to break away from tropes but also use all the classic tropes
And many more like that. Its basically the classic Kickstarter shit of saying "yes" to everything people ask.
You sure you aren't getting confused with Ashes of Creation?
full on anti-addon people are morons of the highest caliber.
i understand complaining about things like combat timers and in-fight weakauras, but anyone who has a problem with things like ui addons (e.g. elvui) should go back to single player story games.
as far as wow goes one of the best things about the game is the ability to actually make your ui/ux not dogshit like every other game. i genuinely wish every game had an elvui-equivelent. weakauras are wierd, because something like timers tracking personal buff uptime are great, while mechanic-solving auras are detrimental to the game, blizzard is moving towards more private auras but it doesn't really solve it since people can just macro a button to activate auras manually and use other overlays.
tldr addons good, addons that solve mechanics bad
I don't think anyones complaining about cosmetic addons
You've clearly not been in any XIV thread, 99% of the "REEEEEEEEE THEY NEED TO BAN ALL MODS AND INSTALL (dogshit FOTM anti-cheat that does nothing) NOW" come from people seething about purely visual mods
>the ui matters
filtered
>i understand complaining about things like combat timers and in-fight weakauras, but anyone who has a problem with things like ui addons (e.g. elvui) should go back to single player story games.
This is a nonsensical sentence.
You "understand complaining about things like weakauras" but also you think people who do have a problem with that should "go back to single player story games" ?
So is the complaint something you understand, or is it something that shouldn't even be considered?
Look, the issue is very simple: When you allow addons, you're allowing randoms to co-design your game.
Would ilvl exist if it wasn't for the gearscore addon? Would people get walled out of getting a foot into the M+ threadmill if it wasn't for raiderio? Would the raids have such unreadable, nonsensical mechanics if it wasn't for the expectation that it's going to be played with DBM on?
Raiding with DBM isn't fun. PVPing with Weakauras isn't fun.
WoW isn't fun anymore because the devs let the players optimize the fun out of it, and then helped them optimize it more.
No addons. Frick your Elvui, that shit looks like trash anyway, you have disgusting taste and should be ashamed.
It also obliterates the chance for new players to join, since having to download five hundred billion mods to be able to play the game will deter people from even trying it out.
>Would ilvl exist if it wasn't for the gearscore addon?
Yes. It always existed.
>Would people get walled out of getting a foot into the M+ threadmill if it wasn't for raiderio?
Yes. Raider.io didn't even exist until BFA.
>Would the raids have such unreadable, nonsensical mechanics if it wasn't for the expectation that it's going to be played with DBM on?
DBM is only boss timers, it hasn't got even a fraction of the functionality enabled by Blizzard's addon API and is decidedly not the problem.
WoW's default UI is borderline unusable, and they somehow managed to make it *even worse* with their recent updates to it.
>Would ilvl exist if it wasn't for the gearscore addon?
yes it literally existed in vanilla wow before gearscore you mouth breathing moron
the reason ilvl is so prevalent now is because they stopped making useless items so the ilvl of a piece of gear is more indicative of how much power it gives your character
>Would ilvl exist if it wasn't for the gearscore addon?
Yes, because ilvl was a thing long before gearscore and it is a value to determine base effectiveness of an item. That's how they designed all items and accounted for their stats, math is on the wiki. Gearscore became popular because WoTLK upgrades were just ilvl increases, not the other way around.
I will absolutely concede DBM argument, since invisible timers are bullshit and having to use an addon to see them is just bad game design.
The thing is, you cannot make good UI addons without enabling functionality for cancer addons. The moment you give users the ability to draw a texture on the screen it's ogre.
This is the reality. And it will always end up with shit like GearStore, etc.
I loved WoW high customization, but the reality is fricking morons always take something like that for online games and ruin shit for everyone.
That is the truth for anything in the world. It's still more important for the functionality than penalizing the innocent with blanket nonsense
Really, you just need a good UI from the get go that don't need to be modded.
PSO2's UI did everything you needed, WoW's "out of the box" UI did not.
>but anyone who has a problem with things like ui addons (e.g. elvui) should go back to single player story games.
moron, addons ARE for single player games
>elvui
that shit breaks every day
friend recently switched to it for wow classic
he's had to update it 8 times in 3 weeks
the frick bruh, just show me some health bars with a few options of bar size and movable anchor, holy shit
> i genuinely wish every game had an elvui-equivelen
How the frick does this look any good to you homosexual? This looks like complete shit.
It looks like if someone tried making the FFXIV UI in PowerPoint
moron.
moron
it's still going to have the game start at level cap so who cares
it's still going to be a gear rat race instead of having unique and interesting items that remain situationally useful so who cares
it's still made by the people who killed the genre in the first place so who gives a single frick
START at level cap? Do you mean there just won't be levels?
not him but at this point whats even the purpose of levels? Just lock whole progression behind items and it won't make a difference. Again monster hunter was decades ahead
>whats even the purpose of levels?
Let you gain your abilities slowly so you have time to get familiar with each one and figure out a comfortable layout before its time to start using them in the real game?
maybe that was necessary 20 years ago when people didn't know how to type properly on a computer but for todays standard it's outdated. So is toolbar bloat. Guild Wars 1 had less than any game and was better than both ffxiv and wow with way more build variety to it.
I'd still rather know that all the players in my group have spent dozens of hours burning the location of their spells and attacks into muscle memory
This shit is still needed now because you still have people no reading their skills or not having fricking limit break on their bar because the game doesn’t force you to have it.
GW1 system was great because of build variety coming from locking you into only using 8 skills and 1 elite skill
correct.
it's a shame GW2 still has some of the worst of weightless MMO visual clutter, and always will
Then it's fricking moronic because 99% of the playerbase reach max level without ever having given a shit about how to use their kit to even a tenth of efficiency.
Levels are useless when it come to teaching, because they don't teach shit. They just drop the tools on you and pray you can figure it out yourself, which everyone who played online game know just won't happen.
If you don’t have the initiative to find the resources to help you or ask then I’m going to insult you and kick you from my group for playing poorly, or more likely you will be gatekept by standards I enforce on who can join my group
Get good scrub
Nice, now work on your reading comprehension.
The levels will be nothing more than the long drawn out "tutorial" just like almost every MMO that wants to usher you to "endgame" as fast as possible so they can design a bunch of shit curated specifically to their intended variable range. You'll take a short while to get to whatever the cap is, then you get to "really play the game" with all progression being from grinding out incrementally stronger gear, most of which is given to you through random lottery drops.
The only MMO that did that kind of thing right was Guild Wars 1, mostly because it wasn't really an MMO but a coop strategy game. Leveling up was nothing more than a formality. You hit level 20 naturally at around a specific point in the original story, unlocking some stuff and gaining Ascension. Then you began the real game of exploring to discover new skills, abilities, class changing, and gear that has more utilitarian uses instead of just being bigger number.
>endgame as fast as possible
I'll use japanese pso2 ship 2 (the primary english playerbase ship) as an example here for this. While the game is not a mmorpg (just a morpg), it still has a decent chuck of its content being 8/12 player content that you primarily play with random people. On ship 2, new players would join and be rather than 'naturally' play through the content and finish getting high enough to partake in 'endgame' after doing so, they would be told 'hey do these 4 quests to unlock this quest, and then run ONLY THIS until you hit the level cap, then repeat it at least one more time for your subclass". said quest was as braindead and trivial as could be, resulting in players at the level cap who had absolutely no fricking idea how to play.
After a bunch of complaints, sega implemented an 'expert check' which the requirement was "beat this other quest type that essentially checks that you have some semblance of knowledge of the class you're playing as in order to beat it". The difference between groups of people who had passed that minor skill check and enabled the filter, and the groups who had not was night and day, to the point that people were actually getting other people to log into their accounts to have them pass the check for them so they could then return to being carried through content instead of failing as result of being a bad player.
tl;dr let people skip the tutorial after they've played through it once, but add some filters to keep people who dont know how to play from making the experience of those who do significantly worse.
>pso2 ship 2
I have no idea what game this is
The second of 10 servers that you could potentially play on, also "coincidentally" the worst.
RIP to PSO2 by the way. SEGA did you fricking dirty, and right when you finally released overseas.
They sure did. Not only did they basically take base pso2 out behind the shed and off it, they also 'updated' the engine for it game months ahead of NGS release which basically completely destroyed the lighting aspect making everything look really out of place in, well, every context and never fixed it.
There's also other shit that they never fixed or addressed in any manner relating to character/weapon models of other players. Even on the highest graphics settings, your character model was one 'tier' higher than everybody elses, and while you could adjust the amount of character models being loaded (from 1 or 4 or something up to 50 iirc), you could not make other players models look better at all. Then they made this even more moronic in ngs: There are 2 model files per costume/outfit you wear, one for you, and one for everybody else. Again, you can't change the model quality for others in game, instead you have to manually find the outfits and replace the lower quality file with the higher one that's been renamed to the correct name. This is in a game with almost 200,000 files for all its assets.
But which game?
What happened?
phantasy star online 2.
Sega made a 'remake' sequel called New Genesis and attached it to the original PSO2 (which you still can technically play, but is no longer updated) like a cancerous growth. New Genesis sucks fat fricking wieners and bloated the size of the original game.
not a good sign when they use ai art to promote the game
>Blizzard veterans
Who?
He means Arena Net during GW1.
A GW1 spiritual successor would be the holy grail I can only hope we get something close to that
Oh, that's not what he meas at all, he's "blizzard devs" were probably the gays that left because of the toxic "dudebro culture".
dont allthose homosexuals work at ncsoft? they basically took over ncwest 15 years ago. so its the rejects from arenanet that couldnt even scam koreans? future is looking bright.
>dont allthose homosexuals work at ncsoft?
no
Greg Street is the biggest name.
He raged about chud toxicity and never allowing that in the Riot MMO, before he left the company.
UI mods are fine I feel but shit like DBM WeakAuras etc are just completely simplifying the game.
They should have been banned from the start.
If you can’t do a raid without a robotic voice telling you to move to a specific location you’re a fricking casual.
This. I like making the hotkeys resemble my keyboard and gay mmo mouse. every thing else is gay bullshit.
Yea I hate that shit, may aswell have the game not have mechanics if a program tells you everything
it is a dumb arms race
>here's 5 things that can happen every 12s, starting after the first random proc, also if you don't avoid it, it'll one shot you
is just bad design, wow did it to themselves
>from Blizzard veterans
Why's Bloodstained in there?
It's not a list of games made by ex blizzard devs, it's a list of games marketed as "from the makers of..."
Replace Bloodstained with Outer Worlds. Also, why is this so common, when some of the best IPs spawned from the devs of another IP making their own version with Blackjack and Hookers? [Star Ocean, Xeno, Fallout, Titanfall]
People that barely make it to the original game credits or had a specific role sometimes not even related to core development, decide to use the credits aknowledge as level
i was really dissapointed with calisto since Glen Schofield was involved but aparently executive producer and co-director/producer are way diferent roles, and he mostly focused on art since is what he knows and conceptual art and graphs are ok, but mechanicaly and story was a downer
bloodstain only problem was 2.5D i remember watching the kickstarter an thinking it was gonna be 2D HD like shantae or Vanillaware games
1) Lots of "from the maker of" are the intern janitor's cousin's neighbor and not the actual brains behind the game.
2) If your most recent success was 20 years ago, it mean today's (you) suck and doesn't have much in common anymore with old (you).
Why is Balan there?
bloodstained: curse of the moon is unironically kino tho
Grim.
videogames are just like friendship
what you consider a good friend is a shit friend to somebody else
not everyone who works together "work" together
Where's wolcel and the upcoming stormgate?
Wolcen is as bad as D4
>Wolcen is as bad as D4
Wolcen is worse because they still have regular server rollbacks. The campaign and campaign boss design might unironically be the best in the genre, but rollbacks for seemingly no reason are unacceptable. At least you can make offline character with no risk of that shit I guess.
I'm still mad about Underworld Ascendant.
Bloodstained is good though
>Bloodstained
>bad
Bloodstained & Phoenix Point are good
Literally who, the game franchise
Blizzard is the Bill Belichick of video games.
Bloodstained is pretty decent, if not good.
NightCry has SOVL, and Star Citizen will be probably good when and if gets released.
Phoenix Point is okay, I don’t get the hate for it
>mfw everyone thinks games are good because of the "ideas guy"
All these devs produced great games because they had a team of people to work with and some suits to form their objectives. Free reign and yes men exposes that "ideas guys" alone are not the reason why they make good games.
The real glaring truth laid bare after the changes in WoW, is it was the devs who weren't EQ raiders that gave the game its soul
Vanilla wow was good because all the quests were made via the writers doing tabletop sessions and writing it out over time organically. The game was in dev hell for a while and they had literally 10 years of tabletop session to work with on material. You just can't find that level of quality anymore.
What made wow good was leveling up for 1 to 50 and just experiencing the little people in the world. Now that it's zero'd in on fricking immortal dragon gods and billion year old monsters and demons it's objectively shit.
Take me back to the days where you were a ragged zombie talking to other zombies in dilapidated shacks. Or a naked orc hunting board for meat in your tribe and avenging a man's wife in a barren wilderness.
Hell yeah
Bloodstained is a good game, remove it from that image and replace it with something like Outer Worlds or Pillars Of Eternity.
bloodstained was great and yooka wasn't that bad
I don't care about most addons. But if you allow dbm like addons, you basically make it a get it or get out scenario for 95% of the playerbase. Blind prog in XIV is one of my favorite end game activity.
It will fail
Not because of the game's quality. But because any playerbase would have to give up their WoW or FF14 time and all those hours are sunk cost.
This seems like a big cope, which MMO did you like that was so shit it failed so now you eternally seethe at WoW and FF14?
Can you convince me that this game will have parity in features and compelling story that it would be worth it to dump characters and story lines you have been invested in for 10 years?
It will fail because, you know it wont. Nobody will jump ship to put 1000s of hours in to a new MMO. If they have to sunk cost their current character.
Think about it, how many "WoW killers" have come up. Aion online, and every korean MMO on the planet that was aimed at westerners, failed. But somehow this one wont? Reminds me of every Battle Royal game that aimed at the king and lost. (Lawbreakers bros rise up)
Lighting only strikes once with MMOs. The game is already set, these "ex-WoW devs" will either put out a sub par game and nobody joins it or fail before that.
Unhinged schizo rant but give you the benefit of the doubt
>compelling story that it would be worth it to dump characters and story lines you have been invested in for 10 years?
No MMO has this
>Nobody will jump ship to put 1000s of hours in to a new MMO. If they have to sunk cost their current character.
You don't lose your current character, I play FF14 currently and would happily play another MMO, it's not like my FF14 character goes anywhere, I've taken months/years off at a time before to play other games or MMOs.
>Think about it, how many "WoW killers" have come up. Aion online, and every korean MMO on the planet that was aimed at westerners, failed.
Because they were shit P2W cash grabs with little post-release support
>Lighting only strikes once with MMOs.
Lightning strikes when something is made compelling enough to capture an audience, just look at how fast the world consumed Genshin
>No MMO has this
No true scotsman
Your argument is invalid.
>reddit fallacies
Every big MMO has had universally panned stories with Endwalker being a massive disappointment and WoW's "spooky man in the background did everything all along" if you don't have an argument move on
>Again more no true scotsman
Your argument was invaild, deal with it.
>Fallacy fallacy
Committing a fallacy doesn't make an argument invalid, you're a moron but since you used one, you invalidated yourself
>no mmo has a good story
>this one does
>no, that story is shit
Good talk
>this one does
This part never happened
Good talk
>All he has is NO U
Brain broken midwit.
>Accuse people of committing fallacies and ignore their arguments
>Get called out for committing a fallacy in the process
>Start screeching personal insults
I think we know who the midwit is here, spoiler it's (You)
>NOOOO MMO HAS GOOD STORYSSSSS
>Gets btfo with a bit of logic
>proceeded to go down the list of reddit, and trying to checkmate me instead of making a real argument.
>Wont just frick off and die in a fire like he is supposed to.
You are doing nothing to disprove my calm and collected analysis of your posts that you have midwitted your way in to a conversation and i am laughing at you for it.
>WELLL NO MMO HAS A GOOD STORY ANYWAY
Fricking lol what a midwit take. You are not even worth engaging in any sort of good faith way after that take bro.
You're getting angrier the more you get called out on your hypocrisy and lack of an argument, now you're whining that your screeching isn't making everyone bend to your weak will, upset they aren't leaving you alone. It's anonymous you can just fade into the background and no one will know who you are, you'll do better next thread. Under the facade of not engaging with the argument you've done nothing but fail to discredit it
So what mmo has a good story
ffxiv is by far the best when it comes to story but it's like 500 hours long at this point and I can't even recommend it to anyone unless they are deeply depressed and need to distract themselves or just broke up with a girlfriend or some shit. It is peak of it's genre though.
The thing is you don't actually want a plot in an mmo at all. FFXIV is final fantasy first and mmo 2nd. Always has been.
lol
Each xpac is a whole final fantasy game. It's so bloated now it's really hard to recommend it to friends at this point. There is too much content. I easily 10k hours without ever touching a raid and I still haven't even started all those variety dungeon bullshit or even completed all deep dungeons. It's too much. Simply too big of a game to tell someone to pick it up and go through it.
you only say that because you are angry at the game but it is by far the best and always will be. It is absolutely worth it to go through but it's such a long and daunting task barely anyone will manage at this point. You are not supposed to play 5 final fantasy games back to back. FFXIV gets praised for it's plot while wow gets laughed at. People even argue ffxiv has the best plot of any final fantasy game yet which it might but it's unfair to compare a stand alone game with a game that has x amount of expansions
FF14's story is fricking awful and made worse by the fact that you're forced to engage with it.
>just look at how fast the world consumed Genshin
Literally the only good part that's not mogged by another game is the open world, and that's at the expense of dungeons, good enemy/boss design, and overall combat quality.
>Think about it, how many "WoW killers" have come up
no one plays WoW any more either, the hottest new shit of hardcore is still only 2 servers, LK only has like 4 active megaserver and retail is a fricking joke
Probably a Wildstar dev out in the wild
How did the MMO genre become this unsalvageable duopoly? Is it the fault of WoW's playerbase for not wanting to try anything else in the 10s?
No it's a result of no one making a good MMO outside of WoW and FF14. Korean MMO's are all incredibly P2W and now developers just make gacha games instead of MMO's
nobody has made an mmo better than wow and ff players will play anything with the ff label on it
if an actually good mmo came out the duopoly would just rotate to all the mmo players playing that mmo and the ff fans still playing whatever the most recent ff “mmo” is
I play FFXIV and I would happily play another MMO if a good one existed, your seethe is misplaced
what seethe? you’re in the vast minority of youd label yourself an mmo player rather than a final fantasy player
Try again in English this time
*if
>Edgecasetard thinks he's the majority
Do you have evidence otherwise?
Probably the fact that the reception to new ffxiv patches is largely based on how many “I understood that final fantasy reference!” moments there are rather than what content gets added to the game
False, Endwalker has been constantly criticized by players of FFXIV for lacking content
It’s just recently being criticized by a small handful of content creators and the playerbase is largely lashing out against those people
See: the other content creators who are now making the “Nuh uh it’s actually better than ever!” knee jerk reaction videos
I think you're getting a very biased side of the argument, outside of the main subreddit (which just posts memes, comics and sucks developers dick) the general community feel is that content in Endwalker has been very sparse overall, while some doomers exaggerating about the death of FFXIV have been rightly put in their place that doesn't mean all the real issues have been forgotten about. There are some small peaks in Endwalker, Criterion dungeons were great but the first two were too unrewarding and the third while good doesn't do enough to make up for 9 months of no content
Been the other way around for a while. Endwalker patches have been heavy on references and light on content, which the playerbase has hated. References used to be well liked, but even the most bone headed fans noticed something's up when the amount of memberberries went up at the same time everything else went down.
Yea ffxiv is a huge final fantasy theme park it’s been this way for 10 years and will keep being that way. Only a moron or newbie would be surprised by this.
When wow came out, all the other established MMOs were for literal poopsockers and fricking spastics.
Suddenly little timmy, his soccermom and jeff from next door could whack pigs and make new friends in a gloryfied chatroom.
Times changed, social media came and did it's thing an wow was just there getting smaller in a niche that was never big.
Other big name studios tried to go for Bobby's lunchmoney, but nobody came even close. EA tried it twice and failed both times for entirely different reasons.
Currently MMOs are just not the hot thing that gets everyones money. As other anons correctly observed, gacha is the current big thing. A good mmo takes a lot of fricking time to make, foresight and a very anti corporate approach.
WoW was codeveloped with Warcraft 3 and Blizzard was out of money when the game released. They had frickall to pay anyone any salary the first few weeks into the release. The success basically was hail fricking marry and paid off big time.
I don't even think you can replicate the magic and the extreme pains devs went to make WoW work.
Look at classic. All iterations except standard vanilla and hardcore are not really popular.
>All iterations except standard vanilla and hardcore are not really popular.
BC could have been without the moronic level boost that made chink bots an absolutely unstoppable disaster.
it's the fault of wow homogenizing the genre and every dev after that point trying to mimic it
wow didn’t homogenize the genre all of the shitty wow knock offs did
Tell suits to stop making horrible changes to mmos, I still can’t believe how new world failed so hard from a trillion dollar company
>Is it the fault of WoW's playerbase for not wanting to try anything else in the 10s?
It's the other way around: every single MMORPG developer and publisher collectively decided that "we want the WoW audience" will surely be a viable business strategy. But yeah, player sunk cost is a real thing as well: if you have established content, grinded progression and possibly even community in your current multiplayer game, why on earth would you want to risk switching to almost exact same type of game?
Something like XIV succeeded because, aside from the extremely marketable IP, they started marketing a "MMORPG" to players who don't actually like to play MMORPGs so the playerbase doesn't necessarily overlap. Despite technically having very similar surface level elements akin to WoW such as tab combat, the entire game revolves around a lengthy single-player main quest that involves the player just reading interactions between a cadre of anime goody two shoes for hours on end, with the existence of other players being given mere lip service in both story and gameplay. For better or worse they also removed all sorts of stat and gear grind (assuming you stick to one or two jobs) - better because less time wasted, worse because there's no gameplay incentive to interact with other players - so you can just play through the whole thing aside from instances completely solo and then drop the game once you're finished with the main plot.
Nobody has answered your question. It's a difficult answer.
MMOs are difficult, because if there's already one that exists people will just flock to it. If it already has all the features you could ever want in an MMO then there's no point in making a game that services some niche aspect that wow missed.
WildStar is a big example, they genuinely thought that people wanted a more hardcore MMO experience...which is the complete opposite of what customers wanted. Wow was popular because it was casual, they fricked up and the game died with the devs scratching their head because they were fans of a niche category of gaming that nobody gives a frick about.
Now that blizzard killed what made wow good, the floor is open. That's why FFXIV has taken over. Wow is no longer a casual chat room l, it's now an autistic time sink. With the new league of legends MMO in development there's a real chance they might take over.
>Now that blizzard killed what made wow good, the floor is open. That's why FFXIV has taken over.
ffxiv doesn’t do anything that vanilla wow did well
the world is awful, the classes are homogenous, the pvp is shit, the gameplay is slow and unresponsive
Golbez armor motivation rpg content midcore of the lalafell summoner rework pvp fall guys?
did you just have a stroke?
Why do you homosexualS keep thinking gameplay matters? It could be even more slimmed down and it wouldn't matter. All that matters is the visual appeal, doing funny interesting quests, exploring the world, and leveling crafters.
You're so stuck in the wow raider mindset you can't even see how deep in the box you are. It's not about how wow plays, it's what you're doing. And nobody wants to do a gay centaur wedding quest you fricking troony
I don’t think wows style of gameplay is the only way to make a good mmo but gameplay still matters
Ffxiv feels like absolute shit to play, why would I play a game for hundreds or thousands of hours when it feels like shit to play
I just hate the direction of wow, I hate how it feels like you need to do 20 shitty worthless quests before you proceed. I hate how questing and world building does not matter.
In FFXIV ya the gameplay is considerably more shit, but, the first DLC is about an ancient elven Orthodox Christian kingdom and their 1000 year old crusade against dragons. It's fricking tight and it takes place in this beautiful frozen landscape. I'd rather spend my time learning about that world, where the NPCs matter and are actually interesting.
The scions are also more interesting than thrall or any character in wow. It makes sense they are with you.
In wow they need to keep contriving a reason for why you're always hanging around the leaders of the factions but nobody acknowledges you. And worse is that they call you champion. It's fricking gay. I don't want to work for these people.
Not sure why you’re complaining about modern wow superhero writing while also praising ffxiv superhero, japan writing
They’re both shit and if you want a game about world building and exploration then go play vanilla wow, or more precisely go play warcraft 1, 2 and 3 and then play vanilla wow
In wow it's baked in that you're just a soldier shuffled off from one battlefield to another. It should have stayed there. The fact that they're trying to copy ffxivs chosen one writing style while adding marvel shit to it makes it worse. FFXIV isn't about marvel or superheroes. It's about a warrior light who's fighting a nuanced tragic villain who's cool not because he's thanks but because he's just a guy.
I recommend you play FFXIV. I've played wow, I've played wc3. FFXIVs story goes harder than any browbeats in wow.
Ive played xiv, the story is easily the worst paced I’ve ever experienced in my entire life
There’s about 5 genuinely cool moments spread out over hundreds of hours of tedium and cliches
And most importantly it’s a single player story, I’m playing an mmo I want a multi player story where I’m part of the rts army
Well then we'll have to agree to disagree.
All's I can say is that wow stopped being about what you said, an RTS grunt on the frontlines. Because it's now the gayest comic book story in existence, with the most dogshit writing.
?si=TtNejVo0DzF--9IO
You couldn't pay me to play this shit.
>Because it's now the gayest comic book story in existence, with the most dogshit writing.
I agree, the problem is that xiv writing was always this dogshit comic book writing except it’s dogshit shinten writing so you give it a pass for whatever reason
Because
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx83yC9Lae54zN_6zVEfkpK6-e318rfGJM?si=WufxVoaSQ9tBsrSG
This goes hard. And wow doesn't. Japanese writing blows the frick out of your Californian too ironic to be genuine, girl power wank off where they're trying to take every low effort writing Trop and crame it into an action adventure game with no depth or effort.
This entire time You're talking shit about wow, but too bitter to accept that FFXIV has merits as to why it's better than wow. You continually hate on your own points because you know wow has the worst writing in video games, but you just can't concede tis point.
>out of game cinematic
wod had a great cinematic, didn’t make it a good or well written expansion
you prefer eorzea to azeroth that’s plain to see, it doesnt make the writing good
Do you prefer the Lich King being behind every conflict? No scratc that, the burning Legion is behind everything, no wait scratch that, grey thanos is behind everything, no wait, the void lords are, wait no it's the old ones or something.
Or how every character is written the exact same way and wants peace for no reason, deflating the entire central premise of the game?
Is there actually anything about WoW's story that's better than FFXIV? Can you actually name it or will you keep deflecting.
>uhh uhh uhhh its better because uh..... (thing from 20 years ago made and retconned by a writer who was fired 10 years ago) so checkmate!
>Is there actually anything about WoW's story that's better than FFXIV?
the vanilla wow alliance onyxia story
>Is there actually anything about WoW's story that's better than FFXIV?
NO lmao
xiv at its worst is still leagues above wow at its best, story-wise. that includes warcraft
shonen*
Thanks autocorrect
you're trying to argue logic with someone whos drank too much of the kool-aid
The "game" you are asking for has already been released and it's called VR Chat. Go ERP in a chatroom troony.
This reads like a really bad joke, I can't tell if it is or not.
My point was that people honestly wonder why people aren't playing wow because "wow has the best gameplay".
It's a negligible difference at best and doing so is a sacrifice in writing and world building and quests. Wow is a dogshit world written by the most insufferable people on the planet, it doesn't matter how good the gameplay supposedly is. I hate having to quest and get talked down to by black women knights.
Gameplay hasn't gotten better, either. They simplified it to make up for the constant autistic shuffling to avoid damage. It's also slower since they implemented the change to prevent gcd hacks.
what
who
I genuinely don’t even know what game you’re talking about with that post, care to elaborate?
The game in the post I responded to
The problem are the boss mechanics themselves. A bossfight should be at most as difficult as a monster hunter hunt and scale just like that. Normies should be able to clear it the same day they unlock with a bit of luck and carefull play. There is no point in having raids at all especially this overtuned where you have to learn mechanics over a month to clear it like in ffxiv. Its not fun. Nobody is doing it besides 1% of the playerbase. The whole concept is wrong. STEP ON THE SPIDERS DON'T LET THEM REACH THE BOSS is uncreative and boring. Monster Hunter had it figured out all along. You can do 20 man monster hunter fights if you want. Shit like Lao Shan. Raids right now are either gearlocked or memorization garbage and none of them are fun
At least in XIV raids are fun if you play the versions meant for normal people and not the terminally moronic sweatlords.
>XIV raids are fun if you play the versions meant for normal people and not the terminally moronic sweatlords.
What are you talking about? The only content designed for sweatlords in XIV is ultimates. Ultimates are unclearable for pugs except maybe giga rare cases in JP region. But those groups are static at this point.
>What are you talking about?
I even used the word normal in my post anon, though if you're gonna jack off to how savages are totally casual guys then you can just frick off
Normal raids are designed for people with drool dried to their chins. They're less engaging on a gameplay level than children's Nintendo games.
though if you're gonna jack off to how savages are totally casual guys then you can just frick off
>if you're gonna jack off to how savages are totally casual guys then you can just frick off
Savages are casual content. They're designed for pugs in mind. Japs are clearing hem in DUTY FINDER. EU and JP are using macors. Did you hear about macros? This is how "hard" they're. They're not for sweatlords and savage players are mostly chill.
And this is how macro looks like. On EU we don't even talk during savages. All you do is just
>M1/R1 D1/D2
in chat
People clear Ultimates in PF every day
Those guys don't clear anything. Often it's just already established group searching for few people (alts)
You have no fricking clue what you're talking about. Mechanics in XIV do not require communication by design. Most JP raiders don't use voice chat even at Ultimate difficulty.
>https://ff14.toolboxgaming.space/?id=375681351422861&preview=1
Look at something like this, you just need to know your role and do as you're supposed to do. If everyone does their pre-assigned duty, you will kill the boss without any communication. It is 100% doable in PF and I've been in those parties
>You have no fricking clue what you're talking about. Mechanics in XIV do not require communication by design
Good luck clearing ultimates in pugs.
yeah sure instead of communicating we just have (Allagan Melon) instead
That's because the players are fricking stupid, you could do the same with ingame marker macros very easily but raiders want to cheat
I'm 100% sure you can google names from this screencap and they will have no clear still
Of course, why do you think they're still doing it?
Nah he's right, I think the same issue applies to XIV as well. You either have brain dead content that ramps up in difficulty and complexity extremely slowly along the expansions, or turbonerd stuff where one player being out of position wipes the entire team instantly, or if the team survives said frick up, wipes the entire team later on due to lost DPS when the boss hits enrage.
There should be more "mid" difficulty trials and raids where the bosses have difficult to dodge movesets (possibly even randomized moveset order), but where one player failing doesn't result in instadeath. I don't know why the devs don't use soft rather than hard enrages either: something like a gradually ramping up boss power or increased mechanic speed could be used instead of total party wipe, to incentivize the team including DPS roles to play well.
Last I played the game also had several balance issues in plot boss fights, like something like Shiva, Leviathan and Shinryu have so low HP they don't even get to go through their entire moveset before dying in normal mode.
>There should be more "mid" difficulty trials and raids
Those exist, you either complain they're too easy or too hard and then when they endlessly try to cater to brainless shit eaters like you you just complain that it has no rewards
What are the rewards from hard mode Criterion anon?
Literally the same rewards as an ultimate yet people pretend ultimates are good for some reason, a title no one with sense wears, a shitty piece of glam, and I think a furniture piece?
So it has more than ultimates, actually.
So just to be clear, you think Ultimate and Criterion are analogous in terms of experience? You believe the reward for ultimate isn't specifically the bragging rights of climbing what's specifically designed to the peak of the hardest content in the game?
Open with your answer to these things specifically so I can dismiss you as an idiot if you truly think these two things are analogous.
The issues I mentioned existed in EX and Unreal last I played. How about trying to come up with something better than a strawman ad hominem?
>you just complain that it has no rewards
This is an actual issue as well, not because I personally care about rewards since I do roulettes for their own sake, but because the vast majority of player base isn't incentivized to play the actual fricking game. There's lot of perfectly fine content left to rot.
>New MMO from Blizzard veterans wants to avoid the UI mod “arms race” of World of Warcraft
Cool can't wait till it gets cancelled like all the other MMOs
>new israelite shit by israelites wants to avoid people making it slightly less israelited so israelites can steal more time and money
Lol frick you israelites
Great.
Gearscore was the single thing that killed wow.
When are they getting past the brainstorming phase?
They're trying to do what the Ashes of Creation guy is doing: develop an mmo publicly.
But unlike AoC they have frick all to show for.
daily reminder that this game is just going to be some low effort shovelware Kaplan shits out for a basic salary because he's too lazy to work at Riot and is essentially semi-retirement
just make a lot of things 'random' so the 1% of spreadsheet nerds commit suicide.
ahhhhhhh maybe they're doing a good good instead of not doing a good good
I'll believe it when I see it
this topic is so charged with mixed emotions that I can't even talk about it properly.
I don't want to discourage tourist devs who want to make an MMO.
I don't want to say it will be good, because it fricking won't.
I don't want to pretend I'm okay, and the mmos are good, because they're fricking not, none of them.
and I don't want to upset Ganker with a diarrhea post of vitriol.
You can’t just randomly make a new mmo and “write a good story” the actual story and character writing really don’t matter
What matters is having an expansive world with decent lore that people are already familiar with and invested in and will want to dive into right out of the gate
That was the secret sauce in wow, we’d been getting the top down view of azeroth for over a decade, getting to step into the pov of just one of the soldiers in the armies we had controlled was unreal immersion
RTS series to mmo payoff is easily the best, unintentional, writing techniques in video games
>The game with the "genius behind megaman" utterly tanked and failed.
>Many games have aimed to be the "WoW killer" and failed
>But we have to take these "ex-WoW devs" like they know the secret and will totally take down WoW
Why? This is going on a WatchMojo top 10 list of failed MMOs in 5 years.
Just wondering, where does it say that it's a wow killer? There are dozens of mmos on the market that get along fine without killing wow. Just because you gays got stuck investing your whole life into one game and drowned in sunk cost fallacy doesn't mean anyone else cared after 2004.
Because if their only marketing point is "from the makers of WoW", that mean they have no idea beyond "let's make a bootleg WoW".
i hope they bin the "everything in the game is completely irrelevant besides the most recent patch" model
For all it's faults, vanilla wow started st level 1. A lot of games just let you rush to endgame and treat leveling as a chore.
What I'm still confused about is that no MMO made a Civilian playstyle and just copied Harvest Moon/ Star Dew Valley comfy farming autism.
>no MMO made a Civilian playstyle and just copied Harvest Moon/ Star Dew Valley comfy farming autism.
Maybe OSRS skilling? It's no Harvest Moon, though. I want to say Black Desert has some farming stuff like that, too, but I haven't played it myself.
You can pretty much play BDO by ignoring combat if you want to.
Only thing you'd need combat for is gathering blood, meat, and hunting and one-shotting deer isn't really "combat" anyway
BDO has such a nice world and good combat but nothing in the world feels dangerous, it's a shame.
Why? I was in the camp that didn’t like wow basically going seasonal but having replayed through the classic expansions now where you still raid mc/gruul while naxx/bt are out its just annoying and boring to go back and smash content you vastly outgear because of a single massively over budgeted item
>content you vastly outgear
this is the problem
Every single raid in the history of wow is overgeared by the gear that drops in said raid, are you suggesting that the raids should instead be tuned up to not be clearable until youve slowly farmed through each bosses loot table one at a time or that the gear they drop should be tuned down such that it feels pointless to clear the raid and be awarded such minute upgrades
they should move away from end-game content being a binary "do you clear or not" mold
new upgrades should allow you to clear the bosses more without stopping to regather supplies (which shouldn't be stackable) and faster
to do this they need to redesign rewards tables to make it worthwhile to do the content many times - lots of tradeable loot, in other words (although you also need to move away so much from powercreeping every single slot)
yes i'm suggesting they go runescape
>Every single raid in the history of wow is overgeared by the gear that drops in said raid
this has not been true since like wod, where you often have a higher ilvl than the raid drops because they've added so much welfare loot
every single mythic raid is tuned to be cleared in heroic ilvl gear, full mythic ilvl is overgearing the content
that's totally wrong, it's tuned to be beatable after you've been opening your weekly chest for a free ilvl bump for a month, or doing mythic+ on the side to get free mythic gear, rarely does anyone need the gear from a mythic boss besides stuff like trinkets
4 pieces of vault loot isn’t getting you to mythic lvl and neither is end of dungeon m+ gear
iirc mythic+ loot caps out at the same ilvl as mythic raids while being MUCH easier and farmable to a certain extent, everyone i knew that was mythic ilvl got it from dungeons not raids
only briefly last season after the timegated crest cap allowed you to upgrade every slot and before they added the myth upgrade track, this tier and every tier before end of dungeon m+ loot is not on par with mythic raid loot
I don't mind that at all. What I do mind is that they're creating another MMO with WoW combat, instanced dungeons/raids and even sharding where you'll have randomly generated singleplayer shards and optional multiplayer shards. Ghostcrawler left Riot to make this and I'm glad he did because this is awful. There is still hope for the Riot MMO.
world of warcraft is just a spread sheet simulator. It's not fun.
>blizzard veterans
it's doomed, never give boomers money for stuff they did with a team 20 years ago
>never give boomers money for stuff they did with a team 20 years ago
Truer words are never been spoken
what MMO? am i supposed to know what MMO blizzard veterans work for?
there is a bunch of MMOs coming out
none of them seemed interesting to me
You can make a successful MMO if you're not a complete moron trying to make "AAA WoW/FFIV clone, but worse and without the sunk cost"
PoE is effectively an MMO.
RotMG is successful despite looking like garbage and having incredibly simple gameplay.
Shouldn't this read "AND isn't going full Final Fantasy 14"? Because FFXIV is the most modder-friendly MMO right now. Their API far exceeds what WoW can do, and there's zero consequences for botting and automating everything.
>Blizzard veterans
This doesn't mean anything any more. Fricking WoD is almost 10 years old, so the devs that shat that out could be considered veterans at this point
>developing an entire game just to own UI mod nerds
what a weird hill to die on
>Be Ghostcrawler
>Hire people who are more skilled than you
>Throw a hissy fit that they dont even need you
>Use your family members dying as an excuse to get out of your contract with Riot but come up with the public excuse you didnt like being in full control of the project
>Have the brilliant plan to switch from one overlord to the next(Tencent to Netease) surely they will let me retain full control and i can kick people out when they hurt my feefees right?
>Claim the game will be unique
>Announced features have been in other mmo's for years already
can't wait for another
>mmo
>with limited number of players per instances/raids/zones and different servers to separate even more the players
>we don't want to do something
i always take that as, we can't do it because we don't have the talent and expertise to fit that in our already very large budget
i hate addons
>already just making a game that only fixes some popular games problems instead of being new refreshing unique
if I could go back in time I would erase blizzard and the WoW team
I was questioning this recently. You have a bunch of addons doing a bunch of weird shit in lots of games. Is there no way to simply not allow clients to access certain backend info? Seems fricking moronic to let people data mine your shit, to be honest. Same with cheating in an FPS, couldn't that be solved with restricted server-client communication. You can't see someone through a wall if the client isn't tacitly informed of another playing technically being behind the wall.
I'd understand if the internet was still slow but it's fast as frick now. Surely we'd be able to do something similar, no?
Things that calculate or tabulate client side and or use external servers to function will never be stopped but those are typically less intrusive and or affect interaction with other players less.
>Is there no way to simply not allow clients to access certain backend info?
That's basically what a modding API does. It only lets mods touch things the developers choose to let them. Weird shit only happens when either the devs forget to close off something that wasn't supposed to be available, or when mod devs figure out some creative solutions the devs didn't foresee. For example, WoW used to let players draw markers on the floor and share those with others using the same mod. Sounds innocent and useful, right? Then someone automated it to mark danger and safe zones for boss abilities. Whoops. That capability was quickly killed dead.
Now, if the modding's done through a third party program and not an official API, all bets are off.
Fascinating explanation. I appreciate it.
afaik WoW endorses addons but until CPUs start launching your OS or even individual games in local VM/container black boxes there's no way to stop memory manipulation and this is actually the direction conglomerates like Microsoft want to move for dual use nefarious reasons. Microsoft Pluton which is included as a hardware feature on all new CPUs is a lite version of this to groom users into accepting the next stage. While the features would benefit game security and basically kill cheating overnight it's actually the shitty american version of a cyberpunk dystopia where your computer becomes a walled garden of approved programs and companies will heavily abuse licensing deplatforming censorship monopolizing. It's the epitome of
>say unapproved thing anywhere
>lose license access to everything on your PC
>you can buy another fortnite license for $5.99!
for everything
>Is there no way to simply not allow clients to access certain backend info?
The vast majority of WoW addons just use data the game is sending to the client but displaying in frickingly moronic ways.
Or adding data that are in any random half-assed WoW Wiki and should have been provided by the game directly.
Haven't played WoW since TBC released but thinking back 15 years ago or whatever, it is insane how moddable a multiplayer game like that was. It's not like Hoxhod from Payday 2 where you don't have to hold a button any more or some shit. There were things you got to see that weren't even intended, it really teeter tottered on cheats. For example, I don't think there was any way to see what your target was targeting in the default UI, but you could with UI mods. You could get 3D models of your targets too, which technically gives you an advantage being able to see what their gear is.
I have no idea what it's like today though.
It sounds mid as hell, it's years away, it's being funded by china, all the people working on it are 2023 twitter drones.
It's gonna be fricking trash and you know it.
ff14 has zero cheat detection, you can literally do whatever the frick you want
Reminder that if it was about money, they'd just cater to whites (and east asians).
>"Not going FF14"
u mean how the game gives you the basic control over where to place UI and size? cuz thats pretty much the only good thing about 14. (and my biggest complaint on other MMOs. they always have absolute shit UI, considering the game is "watch UI the game".
>project ghost team
>blizzard veterans
Yes it will be shit
>UI mod "arms race" of WoW
>full FFXIV
This is literally just a consequence of combat language in both games. It's extremely easy in 99% of FFXIV encounters to understand what a boss is doing by simply looking at the warning signals and approximating, and if you get hit, generally it won't be enough to instantly kill you (though the resultant vuln stacks and raidwide attacks). It's comparatively almost impossible to know what a WoW boss is doing because they refuse to simply make consistent warnings and wind-ups for boss mechanics for players to evade. The reason why you have DBM+Weakaura for literally 100% of WoW encounters is the same reason why most people will immediately shun you in in XIV for having anything even similar to those in literally any encounter (Ultimates included).
Its not just that. WA is because of information bloat. Every class has like half a dozen things to keep track of, even outside of mechanics and raid frames (when relevant). Every class has its head buried in these inane little class mechanics and cooldowns, but because only about 6 things are really ever relevant, only those things need to be displaced. Hence many of the WA HUDs putting the mere handful of things that are relevant front and center.
The game is well over a decade beyond needing a 'sequel' that would allow them to start from scratch to make coherent systems.
One thing I like about ffxiv is that if a boss was faces the tank and then turns around you should know it’s about to do a move that will hit you. Think pretty much all
Bosses and mobs have tells when they are about to attack you even when aoe isn’t on the floor
Why not just copy Xenoblade 3's combat with Blade Combos brought back in?
can they make an MMO that ends awful ass controls, gameplay, and information design?
Just make them like pre WoW MMOs? The ones that are still active don't need a gazillion mods to keep track of what is happening.
>look it up
>its another raid or quit instanced MMO
So its not even an MMO. when will someone try to make a real MMO again?
>again
i dont remember the last mmorpg that was a mmorpg
>new blizard mmo
>in 2023
why would you subject yourself to this horror. There are zero people capable of making a new mmo at that company.
its ex blizzard staff not blizzard themselves
Its the same shit we here again and again
The reason why modern MMOs don't work is because they are all single player games you pay a monthly fee for. Classic WoW was praised because it wasn't a sandbox MMO but that's also why WoW is in the shitter it's in. The theme park/story driven MMO isn't sustainable in the long run and requires way to much work and quality control. This is why shit like Ever quest, Albion, EVE, black desert are all still alive and thriving while the only 2 story driven MMOs are Warcaft, which is on the line of being complet shit and FF, which is weeb garbage becoming worse because they can't keep up with good story content.
>new MMO
>"veterans"
>no name studio
Another scam dead MMO
>isn't going full ff14
You mean they aren't allowing 3rd party tools while pretending they don't so the players can't dishonestly go around acting like smarmy purists about it?
english is real hard little buddy, great try though √
DAR8N
you forgot to make an argument.
if that means i dont have to download a bunch of extra shit just to maybe attempt raiding then sure
it's not hard to download things anon. you just click the download button and then extract it to your addon folder.
yeah but if i have to set it up or try to find out why it's not working cause of some small patch that throws everything into chaos then it's fricking annoying,i already know enough people who play wow or xiv who cry like children when one of their mods isn't working for 5 minutes and i dont want to deal with all that extra shit
NTA but needing stuff to download just to raid is the dumbest thing even and I can’t see how people who play wow think they are so hardcore when a program is yelling at them what to do and you have to have one installed or you’re not allowed to play.
you're hardcore about something when you spend a lot of time/resources/mindspace on an activity, to the point where you're engaging with it at every level, including meta, not when you're actually good at it.
Now, due to all that investment you'll eventually become semi-proficient to be considered "good" but it's not a requirement.
Fair enough. There's still plenty of 'hardcore' players who suck fat wieners at the game they're hardcore about.
Reminds me of when I tried WoW Dragonflight and did the first raid of that expansion completely without addons, and I was one of the few that did mechanics correctly because I've had experience with FFXIV mechanics lol
WoW is designed around addons unlike XIV. You can try to find group of no-addons enthusiasts and try some endgame raiding. it will be horrible and x10 times harder.
I don't know why the frick is this shit so hard to figure out. GW 1 had it 95% figured out already. Just polish up the remaining 5% and you will not need any addons.
It had all parts of the ui as seperate entities, and you could just hop into edit, and rescale them, reposition them, turn them on and off... just customize your UI. There you go. If you need anything more than that, its either a cheat, or you might be a moron.
being able to develop addons gives you 100% control over your ui. it's not hard to see how that's overwhelmingly superior.
Well ofc its superior. But its not needed. You don't need to reskin it, and anything beyond resizing and repositioning or splitting up parts would be going into the territory of autimation, and at that point its just cheating.
>But its not needed
It's not "needed", but it offers many upsides with zero downsides.
>new MMO
>in <current year>
Might as well just take out the budget in cash and set it on fire.
I'll never get you homosexual's obsession with having to play the most popular MMO.
There's so many MMOs with populations in the 20k-200k range that are perfectly good and enjoyable out there for all kinds of taste.
But no, gotta play the shit with the most marketing because ???
Name 15.
WoW and FFXIV players are deeply insecure and associate the game with their identity as people.
I been playing FFXIV for 20 years and still give mmos/mos my time if they are fun, I been playing wayfinder lately and enjoying that.
>20 years
This brotha is a fricking time traveller. How's FFXIV in 2033?
Meant to say 10 years
Are they starting a new studio and immediately going for the mmo genre? cause that seems really moronic imo. Why not prove to players you actually know how to make a game with some smaller projects first before you invest 10 years in a game that is most likely going to fail.
They have NetEase funding specifically to develop an MMO. They have nothing to lose.
>NetEase
Oh
Oh no.
Oh nononononononononono
>unlimited chink money to make a game with full creative autonomy
What are the downsides?
Are you moronic? Genuinely asking.
why would anyone buy WoW when everything is monetized? Need gold WoW token, all the new sets are put in the shop non shop gear is basic and ugly, new mounts in shop, free mounts are recolor, 15$ sub fee game btw also 100 $ expansions.
Because if you don't buy all that you're a chud incel sexist racist who needs to check their privilege. Or at least that's what Blizzard's dragon isle ads told me.
>why would anyone buy WoW when everything is monetized
first mmo?
Lost Ark is less moentized than retail WoW and it doesn't have a sub fee.
i tried playing it and i couldn't find any "mmo" aspect
Nobody can create something interesting anymore because it has to be quirky real-fantasy where you have to include everyone, their mother and their dog and not have racial bonuses/female characters that are too attractive/actual interesting story telling because that's somehow an "ism" etc. Unless they're getting money from Saudis or China, put a fork in it preemptively, it's a fricking trash heap from inception. Nothing like warcraft can ever be made again.
Even the japs have to mumble something like an apology because they didn't include snoop dogg smoking joints and firing AKs in the background in their dragon riding magic sword shit PS5 exclusive that bombed.
tl;dr pray for an industry crash so the deadwood and parasites are burnt away, there's no other chance to make anything interesting otherwise.
only way to make something like wow again is making a mmorpg of a existing popular franchise
and not fricking it up like FF
>it won't have as good of an MMO gameplay loop as WoW
>It has no established fanbase and legacy like WoW
>It won't have raids as good as FFXIV
>It won't have story as good as FFXIV
>it won't have sexy races like FFXIV
>At most it'll have LE GRAFIX like Lost Ark (lol)
Geniuenly who is this going to be for? It's never going to overthrow the MMO Kings
>FFXIV
>good raids
FFXIV raids are all just floating circles you teleport to from an arcade menu. it's not hard to beat that.
and thats a problem because you want to spend 4 hours killing bloated hp trash?
I want to play an RPG, not grind touhou bosses.
then play boring single player rpgs alone
>judging a gameplay feature by the menu used to enter it
Wot?
Well yeah, if you're designing an RPG you probably want to avoid taking cues from coin operated arcade shmups.
>FFXIV's philosophy is pretty transparently "we don't FRICKING CARE just don't be loud about it"
YoshiP literally just put out a release where he whined about addons and addon users. They pretend to care about addons and then don't do anything about them. Full stop.
Hey anon, mind telling me of an MMORPG released in the last 10 years where you don't have a menu to enter a raid?
And no, Classic WoW does not count.
all MMORPGs released in the past 10 years are complete dogshit, so i'm not sure what point you thought you were making.
All right, anon, what would you say was the last good MMORPG? Go on, tell the class.
Anyone responding to this homosexual would be better off taking the nearest hardware tool and slamming it into their balls for all thegood either would do.
Do not feed the trolls.
in FFXIV the *only* way to enter a raid is through a menu. even when you go to the """"entrance"""" you just click on a little blue thing in the world, which then opens a menu.
even in WoW the raids still have discernible physical locations in the world, and you can only teleport to them on the lowest possible difficulty.
Okay.
Give me one raeson why I should care.
I didn't say you should care. I said the raids are badly designed.
>the raids are badly designed because the way to enter them is a method I don't like
Okay, anon. Tell me why the RAIDS are bad, not why the fricking doormat is the wrong shade of brown.
>Tell me why the RAIDS are bad
I did already. Are you illiterate? They're not even raids, they're an arcade touhou minigame.
just castrate yourself and save us all the trouble of endlessly responding to an obvious troll
The doormat doesn't exist. The porch and front door don't exist either.
>engaging with an autismo and expecting rationality
hopefully this has been a lesson for u anon, they're basically women, but with anger issues.
YoshiP "literally" talks about that at least once every expansion and still doesn't amend ToS or actually crack down any more seriously than he did before.
Right, so they pretend to hate addons and then do nothing about them. That's what I wrote.
Are f2p mmos just trash? I’m about to try albion but I haven’t found anything as good maplestory to replace yet
It really depends how they handle monetization. But then again being a sub game doesn't change that, wow has some of the worst paywalls in the genre
>"Blizzard Veterans"
Then those morons must be the from the accounting department because there is no way someone who actually worked on WoW during its glory day could think UI addons are anywhere near the reason the game started sucking.
99% of Addons just added shit that should have been there from the beginning if the UI team hadn't been the laziest group in the entire company, and the remaining 1% are "why the frick are you wasting bandwidth sending data to the client if its not supposed to use them?"-tier.
... then again most "veteran" of the vidya industry turn into complete cretins after a few decade of chasing their peak, so maybe.
In both case the project is DoA, fricking great.
>Blizzard veterans
How far back are we going? Because anyone who worked on WoW after 2008 is fricking clueless
>we don't want addons
>but we won't do anything to stop people from using them
FFXIV philosophy in a nutshell.
FFXIV's philosophy is pretty transparently "we don't FRICKING CARE just don't be loud about it"
They don't even give a shit about making porn with the game so long as it doesn't have any SE copyright info in the picture (you're not using the in-game screenshot tool)
That's a delusion. They've stated several times that they oppose the use of mods. The modding community has a collective psychosis where they think "don't" = "do" and use it as an excuse to literally cheat in PvP using speed hack mods, etc. Total delusion. I would be so blackpilled if I was an FFXIV developer who had to deal with the community who flat out ignores your warnings and puts words in your mouth. They NEVER said "we don't care, just don't be loud about it"
The Modding Community
Yea no idea why folks are even mad about this, if they find out you been using mods to cheat then you get banned it’s don’t ask don’t tell.
they're trying to treat the ToS as gospel when they also know full well that
>ToS only applies if you get reported for it or a GM catches you doing it in the wild
>we have most of the game's lifespan to become familiar with the idea that modding works on a don't-ask-don't-tell basis
>the secret third thing: nobody actually gives a shit about cheating unless it's ranked PvP or ultimate world first races, since FFXIV doesn't really have anything else that's "worth" cheating in
It's double-speak.
They say they don't want add-ons to appeal to casuals and normies who look at screenshots of WoW raiding and reflexively vomit.
But they'll allow them because it lets fight designers get lazy as frick and just delegate to the playerbase on how tells are given.
Bethesda syndrome:
They want their playerbase to fix the biggest problems in their place.
But they still want to be able to nuke what you do if they don't like it.
reminder only trannies use addons and mods
If your game is played in a user interface instead of in the fricking game world then you have fricked up, your combat design is trash and you need to do better. I should be able to play your game with the UI turned off without any serious detriment.
FFXIV boss battles are interesting on their own but they're very far away from RPG people want in MMO. The closest thing to this was BA in Eureka. XIV battles are designed for same setups (2 melee dps, 2 ranged dps, 2 tanks, 2 healers) with almost same dance. It's all about damage and long ass rotation. Even WoW in current state is different. People want something like in XI but modern. You don't need button bloat either. GW has only 8 active skills but it was MMO with biggest amount of builds.
>The closest thing to this was BA in Eureka.
normal raids except you can only res through logos actions? wat
It's 40+ ppl raid where people use voice communication.
so is delubrum reginae savage
I dropped XIV before Bozja.
They nerfed the frick out of it, but on release you needed niche shit like "sleep". There were centaurs that were immune to all CC except for sleep and if they enraged they would wipe you. BA was full of puzzles and fun little things to explore the first time everyone went in. Of course, the week 1 eureka players were going in blind trying to figure everything out. It was an amazing experience. There was more love and effort put into BA then the usual raidslop.
>The closest thing to this was BA in Eureka
Almost forgot. AND open world giga bosses. You get like 2 of them per Expansion. However this is casual content so they're designed to be easy
>People want something like in XI but modern.
>People WANT overworld mobs to be unsoloable
>People WANT to be forced to spend hours grinding mobs
>People WANT bullshit loot drops and drama
>People WANT 'if you play this class you're not allowed in this group'
>People WANT to lose XP and hours of progress through a single frickup
No
No they don't.
They really, really don't. There's a reason this style of MMO fell out of favor.
>There's a reason this style of MMO fell out of favor.
The reason is WoW.
>the reason is a more palatable MMO came along
yeah no shit
Yes anon your MMO is best. Enjoy your (You).
the farther we get away from the year 2000 the more and more insane the whole "MMOs died when WoW released" argument becomes
Enjoy another (You). Frick off.
imagine being an everquest drone in 2023
Frick off.
What flavor of esl is this?
ESLCHAD.
I instantly disregard the opinion of anyone who thinks any part of GW2 is good.
No one is talking about GW2.
It can't be GW2 since he mentioned 8 actives, brainlet-kun
>but isn't going full FF!4
FF14 IS a mod race. It's just against the rules in the ToS. The devs never really take action unless they have concrete evidence like the Omega fiasco. You can have 7 out of 8 members in your static cheating and as long as the one guy streaming is clean the devs can't do shit.
Posting MMO characters in an MMO thread.
if this mmo has a dps - tank - healer - support square instead of the typical triangle then I'll give it a try
so gw2
glad we're still trying to figure out how to replicate the best mmo of the past 10 years
Vanilla wow is literally the perfect combination of modernized but not hand holdy, themepark but with a sense of freedom and adventure, grindy but rewarding
All they had to do was not let half of the specs in the game be completely useless (ie tbc class design)
Are WoW and XIV really the only MMORPGs worth the public's attention these days?
pretty much, and WoW has a metric frickton of negative publicity associated with it from blizzard being, well, blizzard
Pretty much yes. Everything else is niche. And flop of FFXIV 1.0 cemented the fate of all MMOs. No AAA dev will ever invest into this genre
>No AAA dev will ever invest into this genre
Riot already is though. I think it's a huge mistake, but they're still investing in it.
No, neither of them are worth anything at all. It's sunk cost and nothing else that keeps both going just look at the average age of the audience during the recent blizzcon.
I mean, what else is there? No one's releasing new MMORPGs nowadays and if they do they're total fricking disasters, like almost fricking consistently. And generally MMOs kinda lost their niche, no one cares about talking to other people and shit in-game anymore, you have your Discords for that. So the games essentially boil down to random group content and shit which you can experience on a variety of other games anyway.
Neither are worth anything, they are just the last two standing in the middle of the big boy arena.
Single player quests, dungeon group finder, cross server gameplay and automatic port to dungeon are to blame for the downfall of mmos
MMOs are gone. They've been replaced by bite-sized experiences like Fortnite, Deep Rock Galactic, and games like Path of Exile. We will never have trully 'Massive' MMOs ever again other than the games that already exist.
I just started to get into black desert. The gearing mechanic has become to astronomically unachievable that I will just have my fun on a seasonal server instead. Combat is fun, world is lively, characters are pretty and I have content that will last me years if not decades.
>I just started to get into black desert.
I went into that game with an open mind. But the UI made me want to kill myself, doing anything felt like going on a pop-up filled porn website in the early 2010s.
I can see that and you have to adjust your UI some. I was forced to do this because I wanted to play it on my Steam Deck anyway. It's a bit of a mess on 800p at first, but I made it work and now it's great.
>Blizzard veterans
I'm intere-
>Ghostcrawler
Nevermind
>nicknames the project with his own nickname (Project Ghost)
Ooooh mama.
>isn't going full FF14
What the frick does that mean?
You can mod the everloving shit out of 14, probably even moreso than WoW.
Guessing it mean stuff like not needing addons for fight
He means not officially banning addons, but not exposing as much information to addon devs as Blizzard does. Yes, you can mod the frick out of FF14 to the point where you can be a jacked 20' tall futa demon lady, have telegraphs come out before a cast bar even starts, projected textures that tell you exactly where to stand as well as the exact pixel of your hitbox, and you can play an entire shitty pop song for yourself and your friends every time you use a skill but all of that is technically not allowed.
maybe but 14 is the only current MMO where if the world race happens and you're chaught using any kind of guidance mods or anything that would make the current ultimate easier you will be actually stripped of everything outright and then banned for a time. I remembered recently that a whole ass group of Japanese players that got shitcanned for basically modifying the games camera so it could be zoomed out all the way giving a view to the entire battle arena of omega. The fricker that did it got shamed so hard he deleted his character and quit ffxiv after his ban was up.
the only reason they were caught is because they self reported, cbu3 would have done nothing otherwise because they don’t give a frick
ffxiv devs don't actually care about mods. they only care about outrage
they don't give a shit when you report people for speedhacking or teleporting under the floor, but if it blows up on social media then you may be assured they will jump on it like starving dogs
They want more official addon support than FFXIV has, which is none. Note that FFXIV over the years incorporated multiple mods into the game and will also not go out if its way to ban you for mods unless you're streaming yourself using them.
>blizzard vets
yeah last time they did this shite we got hellgate london which was a massive flop
good fricking luck, chuds
All this does is confirm that metagaming morons ruined World of Warcraft.
Unless they're doing Wildstar again, I don't care.
>blizzard "veterans" making a new mmo
so wild star 2.0?
i hope, wildstar was the best post wow mmo
maybe they'll make the game for more people than just tingol and the other poopsockers so the game will live for more than a month
didnt wildstar die from tigol syndrome?
in the long run yeah it died from the same shit every other "wow killer" did
>in the long run yeah it died from the same shit every other "wow killer" did
The simple fact that wow players play wow and will continue to play wow?
that + aping WoW itself too hard instead of worrying about doing its own thing
for reference, spiral knights is still sort-of alive
It died from only having niche hardcore appeal (other than the housing which was superior to xivs housing in every way), the servers being garbage and the cartoony artstyle+in your face ironic epic narrator, thematically the game was just a mess and almost seemed to be inherently off putting as if to say “yea well if you care about this being intentionally bad then you weren’t hardcore enough anyway”
>wanted to be the hardcore mmo
>not knowing only a few people liked that shit and didn’t have anything casual
They shouldn’t have listed to the muh hardcore community
Didn't WIldstar have a pretty universally liked housing system?
Not enough to holdover how shit the dungeoning, pvp, and raid attunement was
before you get your hope up lets review the team
>cuck previous wow devs who has done nothing in 20 years
>pvp wow dev who has done nothing
>sjws females
and gameplay
>you have to make alts to play different jobs
>instance area, but 10000x worse then ff14
>garbage story telling
>you have to make alts to play different jobs
This is a good thing.
>yeah lemme just restart the game over again and do the same quests again because I wanna try one of the games' 30 classes!
>THIS IS TOTALLY NOT ANNOYING!
and being forced to spam the same dungeons is better?
Wouldn’t you do that anyways with a alt?
WoWgays can only blindly follow add-ons and guides and questing is technically faster than dungeons. So its just running the exact same track of quests every time you make a new character
Yes playing an alt will always result in repeating content, the mindbroken xiv poster is the only one who wont acknowledge that
My argument is just that wow has a larger breadth of old content to do to keep it more fresh
>side quests you didn't do
>dungeon spam
>POTD/HOH
>fates
none of these count as leveling options but
>collect 40 bear asses
>collect 40 felbear asses
>collect 40 frozen bear asses
>collect 40 charbroiled bear asses
>collect 40 general tso's bear asses
>collect 40 orcbear asses
>collect 40 demonbear asses
>collect 40 azuritebear asses
>collect 40 ghostbear asses
>collect 40 gay centaur romance novels
is meaningful content to level an alt through
>side quests
>to level
why are ffxiv defenders so relentlessly ingenuous
>side quests you didn't do
Lol. Dogshit exp
>dungeon spam
This is how you play in XIV
>POTD/HOH
Meme for insane people. Worse exp gain than dungeon spam. Even more repetitive.
>fates
Meme
Do you even play XIV?
>nononono those don't count its not optimal!!!!!!!!
seethe wowbuck
KYS subhuman XIV cultist Black person. I hate you.
>Not even subscribed for a year
Lol, lmao even
seethe and cope wowbuck
In ffxiv you can level up by doing fates, sidequests, bozja, and PvP aswell. I know when I did shb and ew I did random fates and side quests as I was gathering stuff. Sidequests match your level and give decent rewards so you shouldn’t skip them.
Yes. Low level online traffic. No dead quests so more people can group together. You're XIV troony
you literally are moronic if you think it is the same. I rather just level my job with my main character then swapping to a different character who might be in a different server with a different name. moron
>level my job
We know you're XIV troony who hates MMOs
>unironically defending the dogshit that is dealing with alts
>doing the same quests you've done a dozen times is actually le good!
explain how doing the same roulettes you’ve done hundreds of times is le good
>doing the same quests you've done a dozen times is actually le good!
Yes. Buy level boost, troony.
>buy a level boost, troony
yes we know WoWgays love giving all their money to Bobby
you’re right, it’s not the same
in ffxiv if you want to level an alt job then your only option is to spam the exact same dungeons you spammed to level your previous jobs in roulettes
in wow you can quest through literally any of the previous 8 expansions zones as you see fit, or any of their dungeons or pvp
wow has shit the bed in many ways but it absolutely mogs xivs alt leveling experience
hah
HAHAHAH
try playing the game, wow questing is so dead they had to add cross-realm group finders just so people could actually get groups for elite quests
>wow questing is so dead they had to add cross-realm group finders
Delusional XIVtroon.
>wowbuck tries to deny reality
you literally pick up elite quests and they have group finder icons next to the quest in the tracker
>XIVtroon doesn't know about existing of dead servers
God I hate XIVtroons so much it's unreal. They're bane for any MMO discussion.
>ESL gets mindbroken when confronted with facts
Spot the xivtroon, not that I'm defending ghostcrawler and pals but you gays are deplorable.
>have to make alts to play different jobs
I hate that
Why? Unless you're XIV troony. If you want to do some weekly/daily limited content twice you need to make alts.
>you have to make alts to play different jobs
Can't wait to have to redo the same mandatory endgame grind dozens of times just so they can pad playtime stats.
>Mmo from a brand new studio
It's dead
>blizzard vets
Cant this awful garbage gametype just die out already?
Addons kill content. It's why several WoW raids are overtuned garbage that is almost unintelligible to play without mods. The devs ended up making content that assumed you were using mods and it is BAD.
>The devs ended up making content that assumed you were using mods
That is their fault, not the mods'
They did it because moronic mathraiders b***h and moan they solved the algorithm and have nothing to do in-between solving it.
Still their fault. Put their stupid M+ system that just increases values for no gear, if they want to cater to those autists that much
>make disallowing modification sound virtuous
>blizzard sloptroughers get to slurpin'
You could tell them DRM was actually a good thing and they'd defend it
At least they are copying the best MMO
Translation: mobile gacha pulls
>"fit into your life"
>is MORE WoW than XIV
>have to make new characters to try other classes
lying to the players face with their first announcement is not a good look
>have to make new characters to try other classes
please for the love of god explain how this is meaningfully different than starting a new job at level 1
It just is ok? But really anyone who isn’t moronic would want one character and don’t want a ton of alts.
>don't have to do attunements
>have travelling options like mount/teleports/portals
>have gear from winning greed rolls to jumpstart gear
>XP boosts for having jobs leveled already
>don't have to do attunements
attunements don’t exist anymore and even if they did they could be solved with account wide credit
>have travelling options like mount/teleports/portals
can all also just be account wide unlocks (see wow)
>have gear from winning greed rolls to jumpstart gear
you can send boe gear to an alt to jumpstart them
>XP boosts for having jobs leveled already
heirlooms did this in wow or you could implement xivs armory system account wide
one character doesn’t provide any unique solutions to these while also limiting your freedom as a player to make whatever characters you want
if you just want a catgirl warrior and wizard and cleric you can do that in a game with alts too but you cannot have a dwarf warrior and an elf wizard and a human cleric in a one character game
>uhhhhhh those reasons you listed don't matter because..... they just don't see blizzard removed them anyway!
Nothing stops you from making an elf character and a dwarf character, WoWgays seem to lack the understanding that if they want to mindlessly slog through the same quests over and over they can make alts like morons
Nobody said they don’t matter, I said that single character design doesn’t give answers to them that alt character design cant also provide while not being inherently restricting like single character
why is having to redo the entire game to try another class better than it just being a class change option?
you don’t have to “redo the entire game” you have to re-level, just like you have to re-level in ffxiv when you start a new job
In XIV you can't skip story for free. As you may notice no one complain about alts but xiv gays.
NTA but you’re not stating why its any different or better to start a new character for each class
In XIV low level gameplay is pure dogshit. Everything designed for max lvl. Your job doesn't even function until you reach current level cap. This is because they re-balance skills with every expansion without care about leveling. Plus the story. Everything in XIV is locked behind the MSQ. Leveling up raid alt is PAIN in XIV.
This is not an issue in other MMOs. And why is it better to level up new character? Resets. And technically more gameplay if your game has "soulbound" gear.
>its better because you get to run on the gearscore hamster wheel more!
Yes. Why would you play something you dislike? If you don't like raids just don't raid. If you don't like gearing up character in RPG (you don't like RPG) just listen
>if you don't like being forced to do a set amount of raids, dungeons, PVP, and whatever gimmick of the expansion so you can spin the weekly slot machine to maybe get a copy of the same item you already have but with 2 more stamina then you don't like RPGs!
wowbucks are this moronic
>sees opinion he doesn’t like
>strawmans it to the extreme
yep its a xivtroony
>y-y-y-you can't state actual shit WoW does when I strawman at you!!!
>being forced
No one is forcing you. Play a singleplayer game if you don't like raids. Play VR chat.
Weekly vault was the ultimate death of wow.
There are no players left, just rats on a treadmill chasing the dopamine hit from their bing bing wahoo slot machines.
>There are no players left
All "players" are ERPing in XIV now.
I wasn't saying WoW has no people playing it.
I was saying they don't have any actual *players* playing it.
That was awful. I did it once in BFA and it was just repellant design
The gameplay in XIV is kinda dogshit in general.
I enjoyed HW a lot, but my rotation was 26 buttons, MMO gameplay is pressing 20 keys to do prefab, stock, 'miming' animations.
That's because they simplified it for the WoW refuge's who play Retail WoW.
It was a problem even in 2.0 and 3.0.
Besides that, the GCD, the netcode, XIV just doesn't feel good to play.
I feel the same way about post-legion wow
I don't like WoW anymore either, I play MonHun now.
But even as someone who has no real attachment to either game, WoW always felt much better to play.
WoW is just spam buttons activate procs game play. There is not thought or skill.
Inb4 pressing a lot of buttons is the only thing that matters
In his defense, the gameplay was better when WoW rotations were more complex
>when WoW rotations were more complex
WoW rotations are more complex right now than they've ever been before. Not sure what you thought you were trying to say here. People are actually complaining that the game is too complex and it's scaring away new people.
Then that's entirely new. They were stripped down significantly in Legion, and that persisted into BFA and SL.
You're acting as if I like either game.
I am only saying WoW felt better to play, which it did.
it is objectively a bad game to play.
You're right about the netcode at least. I remember even the reticules often weren't accurate
Rotations are bad. This is how perfection looks like. Even ESO despite all flaws is probably one of the rare MMO with some sort of horizontal progression and build variety.
umm but these arent rotations? you posted some 8 man/bots party build for guild wars 1 wtf lmao
>umm but these arent rotations?
You missed the point.
what point? you claim guild wars 1 pve content to be perfection (the builds in the picture have pve only abilities). it was a good game but not because pve kek. ill give you a hint. its in the title
>it was a good game but not because pve kek
it was good in both pve and pvp kek read reply chain gw1 has only 8 buttons yet it can dab on any xiv 300 button static rotation
I remember having a three button rotation well into level 40. Fricking dogshit game.
>In XIV low level gameplay is pure dogshit. Everything designed for max lvl. Your job doesn't even function until you reach current level cap.
No one's gonna deny this, but early level WoW gameplay is also ass. Neither are good and neither are situations you wanna stay in.
>Everything in XIV is locked behind the MSQ.
Good.
>Leveling up raid alt is PAIN in XIV.
Because you can play any other job on the same character.
>And why is it better to level up new character? Resets.
Why would you need an alt if you can play all the same jobs on one character, and gear is soulbound anyway so you can't funnel it from your alt to your main regardless.
>Because you can play any other job on the same character.
RAID ALT anon
>Why would you need an alt if you can play all the same jobs on one character
RESETS
>RAID ALT anon
For what purpose, anon?
>RESETS
For what purpose, anon?
Are you EX-only xiv player? In 99% mmos (modern mmos) you can clear raid (real) only once per week. With loot.
Methinks you just got wowbrain.
Methinks you don't play MMO and just shitposting. Old mmos had spawn timer for bosses.
>Old mmos had
And?
You don't need alts for a game where you can play literally every job on the same character. That's for games where you can only play one job a character, and you're trying hard to insert it into games where that isn't the case.
>You don't need alts for a game where you can play literally every job on the same character.
Re-read my post. Are you EX-only xiv player? Because Savages in XIV are weekly locked too. You can roll only once per week.
>Because Savages in XIV are weekly locked too. You can roll only once per week.
And???
This is what I mean: wowbrain.
Raid alts are for people who want to raid with 2 different groups at the same time. If he's doing 2 raids with the same group/PF then yeah, he's fricking mazed to the maximum
>And???
Re-readly reply chain about raid alts. I'm done with you. You got your answer, explanation and reason.
Yes, like I said: wowbrain. You have a legion of alts in wow, so every mmo needs to be the same in your eyes.
having everything on 1 character is soulless bugman design
kindly have a nice day
>you must replay the entire game every time you want to try a new class so we can milk you for more money
actual bugman design
I've played FFXIV up to the end of Heavensward for the first time a couple days ago and it was pretty alright I'd say, but if every theme park MMORPG is a variation of this I can see why this genre's kind of dead save for the big games.
A lot of the game seems pretty transparently designed to waste your time so you'll stay longer, walk around more and make the world feel more populated. Then once you've done all that a lot of the time the reward boils down to a bunch of text to read and some collectible you don't really care about. It's good text, but walking -> text -> walking is one hell of a slow experience, and the act of traveling the world itself is boring and sucks.
You play a game designed around a tight gameplay loop or a match-based format of play and you get the type of gameplay you like with none of the filler, and the devs can make it better and more in-depth by just focusing on that one activity. You just play a game like Rust/DayZ if you want the wolves-eating-noobs wild west PvP and the social element that comes with it, or a battle royale if you want that minus the time investment gap where you get squatted on by people that have played on the server and amassed resources longer than you. I guess MOBAs are sorta like a leveling and faction PvP experience rolled into one and heavily abridged to like 30-45 minutes a pop. If you want a multiplayer boss fight game you could just play Monster Hunter I guess (though I don't know any boss fight game that basically has raid-style mechanics dodging combat like an MMORPG).
What wow players fail to understand is that FFXIV isn't popular because it made a better raid and grindathon. It's popular because it does everything outside of dungeons and combat better than in wow.
Since you're at the beginning, the game does have an issue with the fact that you're playing a super long tutorial for basically 20 hours before you get to see what the game is truly about. Every player agrees it's an annoying filter.
Most players aren't playing FFXIV to raid. It's part sims and part virtual novel with a simple gameplay loop. You can have a shit load of fun designing a house, crafting is extremely comfy because you have fun animations and can dress up in aprons and coats. Quests are genuinely well written, better than anything in wow. I'd say the worst FFXIV quest is better than most wow quests.
Dressing up is great because you have so many options for actually outfits.
Seriously, look at wow, what does it offer outside of combat? The armors are fricking 2d paint. Crafting doesn't matter and it's not fun whatsoever, there's no housing, dressing up is fricking tedious and you're constantly looking like a moronic clown all the time until you can get a transmog, the quests are objectively horrible, the characters are annoying as frick and nobody likes them.
a dive into the mind of a zoomer
>im call him zoomer that means I win
WoW has nothing to do in between patches. Highest M+ keys can be done in the first week and the raid as well. Then what do you do for the next year until the patch comes out?
this is objectively good design, sub for the content you want without any timegate bullshit and unsub when youre done with it
>crafting in wow
>you watch a meter as your character does the mining animation or wrings their hands together
>99% of crafting outside of making mounts is worthless past the first day or two of the recipe being added
all crafting is just turning raw rocks into finished items in one step
vs
>crafting in XIV
>every crafter is its own job
>all of them have unique gear and animations
>crafting is interlinked as items needs the materials made by other jobs
>crafted items remain relevant as catch-up gear
This is obviously one thing that's irrefutable. Crafting in XIV feels so much better, and WoW devs have some weird hangup about crafters having access to good gear.
crafted gear has been bis all of dragonflight
>every crafter is its own job
>all of them have unique gear and animations
This is just a lie. Everything is fricking reskin. Same rotations just different icon. In 1.0 crafters had unique minigames
>wowbuck thinks these three jobs are copypasted with the same gear
>anon thinks that gear matters genuinely whatsoever
BiS is cross-class. Nobody dedicates glamours to crafting jobs because that's insane. They all share literally 100% of their abilities with every job of that type - which is exactly what they want to do with tanks.
>moving goalposts once again
Didn't even read your discussion with the other guy. Just wanted to point out you were arguing in supremely bad faith if you actually try to imply to that job-specific crafting set gear actually matters, to people who are likely ignorant of the fact you're arguing utter half-truths.
seethe and cope
giving the crafting and gathering actual flavor and uniqueness is good
They're literally the same. As in: I use the same macros to AFK while playing them with no adjustment. It was homogenised ages ago. What year are you from?
>unique gear
>unique animations
why does jobs having flavor seem to mindbreak wowgays so badly?
>he's still trying
Your gear has copypasted stats. Literally. And your crafting rotations have only different icons.
>FSH
gathering not crafting. And yeah I know FSH has unique gameplay Again in 1.0 crafters had unique minigames
wowgathering jobs have the exact same issue with its crafting
>just your character doing the mining animation or wringing their hands
the only gathering job that has actual gameplay in ffxiv is fsh. btn and min are literally just
>press the same 2 - 3 buffs
>collect item
or for epheremal nodes
>press 1 buff 2 times
>collect item
Heres a test for you. What profession is the XIV character? What Professions does the WoW character have
i don't really see how that is relevant. i was under the impression that we were discussion gameplay and at any rate, if we want to talk about aesthetics, both ffxiv and wow have glamors (ironically the system in ffxiv is much worse)
>every crafter/gatherer in XIV has unique gear and animations
>claim its all reskins of each other
>wowgay tries to damage controls
yeah so you know what a reskin is, it's something that's aesthetically different but mechanically the same
all the crafters have skills that do the exact same things and products that are crafted in the exact same way. all the gatherers gather in the exact same way except for the fsh autists. the gear provides exactly the same benefits regardless of which job it's on
>wowgay cannot handle flavor making jobs stand out
may as well claim all healers are the same thing because they all make hp bars refill if you want to decide to just ignore the words on the screen anyway
the healers in xiv are some of the most homogenized jobs in the game. citing them is not a good look on your part
>the only gathering job that has actual gameplay in ffxiv is fsh
sir you posted a gathering job
>what does it offer outside of combat?
There is literally nothing else now. It smacks of a stripped down "minimum viable product"
This. They hyperfixated on combat but it was serviceable at the start. It's hardly an MMO, it's barely a multiplayer game.
eh crafting is just pressing a macro until the animations finish playing and pressing it again. there are expert crafts which must have sounded good on paper but at the end of the day is just rolling dice
I would take a complete reboot of crafting tbh, it's a little confusing for me. But I do enjoy doing the beast tribe quests and looking like an honest tradie and helping cute lil critters prepare for a festival.
reboot is needed if only because crafting is way too simplified and homogenized as it is. there's zero difference in gameplay between a blacksmith and a cook. it's stupid
>It's popular because it does everything outside of dungeons and combat better than in wow.
No it doesn't. FFXIV has some of the worst world and environment design in video game history. It doesn't even really have a world, it has a bunch of floating bubbles surrounded by invisible walls that aren't geographically connected to anything else in any tactile way.
Oh damn, he folderdumped. He did it!
>this schizo is back again
still better looking than WoW's "we stretched the ground texture up to make a hill" world
I mean, come on.
>this is what retailoids playing dragonflop say is good while they seethe about classic or XIV
b-b-but classic+! they're listening!
Just like those other 6 times they listened in the past!
Yeah, WoW's world is significantly more complex than FFXIV's world.
FFXIV's world has:
>no critters
>no flying mobs
>no swimming mobs
>no mobs fighting one another
>no NPCs in travel
>no vegetation
>no hidden secrets
>no puzzles to solve
>no minigames like dragon-riding courses
>no verticality
>no intricacy in its level design whatsoever
>zones connected through tunnels with zero geological correspondence to the actual world map in lore
>nothing but ground mobs walking in circles
god damn wow really fogfricks everything out the ass, huh
>Dragonflopping is now listed as a positive
bobby isn't sending his best
though I guess he fricked off now so it's not surprising
>Dragonflopping is now listed as a positive
Why wouldn't it be? More types of gameplay is a good thing. There's nothing to brag about when the only thing you do in game is do deterministic damage rotations and barbie dress up.
>you see wow is so dead they had to add a bejeweled minigame into the actual game so you have something to do while waiting an hour for a dungeon queue so wow is better!
and yet wow's world is as appealing as bland toast. grim
and this is the peak of wow, too. this is as good as it's ever going to get unless they somehow miraculously make a wow 2 (never ever)
its amazing how much better everything looked even back in BC
This looks moronic, but it's objectively higher fidelity than FFXIV models. The hands don't even have fingernails lmao.
That's neat. But it still looks awful. Like everything about WoW.
Yeah, both games looks extremely terrible, especially FFXIV.
Especially WoW, yes.
No, FFXIV looks by far worse, especially environments. Models in FFXIV are objectively lower fidelity too.
blizzard just can't stop obscuring their shit with fog. damn
Wait nelfs are asian?
So when are you going to post one of these mythical good looking WoW environments?
>subjectivity exists
what if we don't like disney cartoons?
Is that Gary Busey with elf ears
Look dude, I'm not going to interrupt your wow manifesto, but
>you're playing a super long tutorial for basically 20 hours
is some pure cope. You're not playing all of Realm Reborn and Heavensward in that time. You're not even playing half of Realm Reborn in that time I'm pretty sure, unless you skip every cutscene along the way leaving you with only the shitty filler. Pic rel, I'm like a couple quests from Stormblood I'm pretty sure, did do some various content unlocking quests and Hildi along the way but you'll easily clock 80-90 hours getting to where I am MSQ-wise.
There are kino fights and moments in there, and the pacing(as well as VA direction) gets a LOOOOOOT better almost immediately after base game (and the final three or so 1.0 quests are light years ahead of everything else in the game immediately before or after, I heard they were reworked at some point), but it still has those stretches of nothing but fairly inconsequential dialogue and walking happening, and base game + 1 expansion isn't exactly a tutorial anymore.
It's good, I'll keep playing it, especially since I heard basically every expansion just gets better than the previous one(and it's definitely true for HW compared to base game), but it absolutely is agonizingly slow.
If other games in this genre are even a fraction as slow it's no wonder they can't hold an audience. This kind of gameplay hinges entirely on random player interactions and copious side content tiding you over until the game feels like having more "real" content.
Actually, addons were fricking cancer and most of them were basically fricking cheats that the devs ended up working into the game because people with cheats have an inherent advantage.
That said, I will be very, very surprised if this game doesn't have:
>Meaningless grind of a leveling system with "the game starting at level cap" (as others have said)
>Idiotic "make the numbers go up" stats and mechanics
>Fast travel
>Flying mounts (in a game with no verticality)
>Phasing and layering
>Some kind of "main story." Bonus points if the player is the Chosen One hero of said "main story."
>Open world mobs that are a complete joke
>Dungeons that are a complete joke outside of the bosses (maybe)
>Races that are completely cosmetic if they have them at all
>Classes that barely offer anything outside of the "Holy Trinity" in terms of functionality and have absolutely no flavor or fantasy
>Or, better yet, a "classless" system that is, in reality, just the Holy Trinity of metagamed tank, metagamed healer and metagamed DPS.
>In-game cash shop
>Transmog
>Instanced everything
>Some kind of LFG tool that teleports you directly into the instance instead of having to physically go to a portal
>Endgame based around "daylies," raid logging and sitting around in the capital city
>leveling is bad
>stats bad
I’m glad you people can’t make mmos because you’re clearly fricking stupid
Given the success of the bear sex game, why don't they just make a single player RPG?
Elden Ring, Bear Sex Game, Witcher 3, so many single player RPGs released lately have been so successful.
They are, but it's also an MMO. From the way they describe it it's a 2 in 1.
If larian used bg3 to make an MMO I'd play that.
After getting back into classic EQ with a private server lately and trying out the monsters & memories pre alpha test I'm 100% done with modern AAA mmorpgs, they just fricking SUCK ASS
>no woke shit which means no sexy or interesting outfits at all just bland giant potato sacks like ESO
>zero interesting character races and a forced mix of real world ethnicities instead
>shitty and ugly character bodies - afraid to give women actual breasts and asses and afraid to make men nothing but massive muscular gods
I've had more fun playing my first mmorpg from my childhood and a pre alpha test than I have had with ANY mmorpg that's released in the last 15 years, the fact I had more fun scrapping together cash to buy vendor goods like back in the day on M & M alone is insane, can't wait for it to fully release
frick all modern mmorpg studios and devs
Looks very promising but I won't get my hopes up on another MMO until it releases
>new mmo form blizzard veterans
Huh?
WoW is dead. XIV is still culturally popular get over it.
WoW is dead get over it. XIV is still culturally popular and in normies mind. Normies know what a Veirra is but will never know what a blood elf is.
Don't call drug users veterans.
I'm just glad they are copying the better MMO (WoW) over a shitty, dead visual novel (FFHIV)
Are younger generations even interested in MMOs anymore? Especially given a lot of people's attention spans don't enable them to grind for 100s of hours in a single game anymore just to reach max level. It doesn't seem worth the investment for devs if you can make a significantly cheaper game in a more accessible genre like an FPS.
>Are younger generations even interested in MMOs anymore?
Given how big FF14 was for a while, I think the answer is "yes" easily.
Unfortunately the MMO market right now is in fricking shambles.
>the MMO market right now is in fricking shambles
Pure speculation, but it's likely that changes in the prevailing attitudes towards gaming as a whole and how people want to spend their time now has changed led to the decline of MMOs. Also it could be that modern MMO design fricking blows and no one wants to spend their time on a dying genre.
XIV healers can only dream about smooth Mistweaver style gameplay. Bad to play my ass.
Did they finally fix it after the Legion gutting? What about Brewmaster? That was far and away the most tragic transition to two button rotation I've seen. Demolished it.
A lot of anons in this thread flashing their spectrum status via black and white reasoning.
>he doesn't know
Naïve anon. No compromises. You don't want XIV audience in your MMO.
wowgays flooding into games is the kiss of death for it
chasing the braindead wowplayer is almost as bad for your game as unironically following the "we want the call of duty audience" trend
I really wish companies re-learned what they learned 15 years ago in that mmos are an inherently losing race, just like they had to learn again about gaas games
>New MMO from Blizzard
Couldn't
Give
A
Single
Frick
>new anything from Blizzard
Their game design today is deeply compromised by greed from the top down thinly veiled by political correctness. And they're in the pockets of the CCP, frick modern blizz.
OP:
>New MMO planned by former Blizzard employees
Several replies in:
>BUT XIV AND THEN XIV AND XIV XIV FUUUCK XIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVVV
the anti-XIV cultists are deranged
They really can’t stop thinking about ffxiv
This 'Ghost' MMO is basically WoW with a twist, it's gonna have WoW combat and plenty of instanced content like raids and dungeons. But they're trying to design it without timegated content like raid lockouts or weekly caps, it's gonna be interesting to see how they'll handle that one.
They got 'blue shards' that are procedurally generated singleplayer / small scale multiplayer Minecraft-like worlds and 'red shards' that are big MMO worlds that anyone can join. I don't know if I love the idea, maybe if they went in with a more action oriented approach to combat I would be more excited.
Good. I'm enjoying WoW classic right now but it's baffling to me how addons are mandatory in the game.
how is wanting to have distinct, thematic characters “wowbrained”?
I want a silly gnome mage, a diabolical goblin warlock and a tree hugging elf ranger
have you people never actually roleplayed beyond self insert “well I would say that!” shit?
FFHIV TRANNIES STILL MAD NOBODY IS COPYING THEIR DEAD GAME
HBAHAHAHAHA
But WoW did try to copy XIV, and they shat the bed hard in the process
>the WoW team tried to copy XIV and failed
>but look this team that isn't the WoW team isn't going to copy XIV!!!!
reminder that YoshiP proudly admits that he aped WoW and slapped a FF story on it. no game has ever been as much of a shameless WoW clone as this one.
Yes, when WoW was still good.
and WoW tried to copy XIV and shat the bed trying to do so
>XIV IS JUST WOW WITH A FINAL FANTASY STORY
>XIV SUCKS BECAUSE IT'S NOT ENOUGH LIKE WOW
hmh
They just added duty support, anony.
And the plot in The Woman Within is probably gonna have Azeroth acting as a Hydaelyn ripoff.
another thread of xivtroony seethe
copying a shitty and dead visual novel is not a good idea if you want a global phenomenon like wow
it is what it is
true. wow is indeed a global phenomenon
renowned for how hard it fell from grace
>global phenomenon
overwatch was the last global phenom blizzard had and they killed that too
>wowgays seethe about xiv unsolicited
>end up getting btfo in a fight they started
>h-heh xivtrannies r so mad i winned
I can't think of anything more pathetic than a wowgay. I think it requires literal cultlike blinding rituals to be a wowgay in the current day and age
Oh no no no, look at the top of his head
>cultlike
my favorite is when an insult cuts so true and deep that they have to throw it back at you
we already know wow has been a cult for ages
remember: no negativity in the dojo
>blizzard finally adds new seasonal event mog, mounts and toys
>are they finally lear-
>more trading post slop
yayyyy... everything is trading post i love it
WoW's style is ageless xivtroons. Nice try, but bring your A game next time you try to step up to the undisputed KING.
WoW has been garbage past vanilla
XIV is not even an MMO
Reminder that the FFXIV devs are so incompetent they couldn't even design a proper transition between above water and below water, a mechanic nintendo games for babies were doing in 1996 lmao.
how shameful that wow is still having trouble with xiv then
Serennia wilin
mods are garbage
macros are fine
I don't want to have my screen filled with shit and some random voice telling me what's going on just to compete
>they couldn't even design a proper transition between above water and below water
consistency is maintained above and below water in xiv thoughever. you don't get ported to another phase. they just thought it quirky to add a transition effect. weird thing to lie about
RETREAT!!!