Let's have a bit of a retrospective threat now that this franchise is officially finished/dead.
Which was the best game? Which was the worst?
Are any of the introduced mechanics salvageable for the future of the franchise, or should we just move on?
Redpill: all of these games have better mechanics than the originals.
Mechanics do not replace soul
In what sense? The physics are sluggish when running, the triple jump is useless, there's no meter or change when at full speed, the walljump trivializes most pits, and the only worthwhile wrinkle was the midair spin in Wii. Reusing SM64DS assets and weight really holds it back.
There is one NSMB game and the rest are glorified DLC. This isn't a series, it's just a single absurdly long game
That's fun to think about. Soup series could be like one of those infinite randomly generated mobile games.
Kind of a shit take.
Worst you could say about the series was that 2 was kind of forgettable and Luigi U is a dumb gimmick.
Nah, really. The first was a straight reboot of the very first SMB. Every other New since then has kept that same formula. Oh sure, they got fancier in their way, but these games are still quite firmly rooted in SMB1 rather than branching off of SMB3 or SMW. If I were to go into this blind, you took SMB and Lost Levels and gave them the NSMB graphics, then put them and every New on one disc and called it a single giant game, I would be none the wiser and accept the new powerups and so forth as just being things you couldn't get until later worlds. NSMB is basically the DQ of Marios.
the original NSMB has the best bosses in 2D Mario imho, second most fun powerups among the nsmbs behind U, Mega Mushroom and Koopa shell were good fun but they are too sparse
I loved the shell. I would grab one and then start at 1-1 and play all the way through the game to the final boss without letting go of B. Fun getting through the later platforming parts like that.
"Wonder" is just the next one of these anon. Same moves for Mario. Same overworld tiles (the blocks are literally the same). Same "green coin challenges". Same 8 worlds of Grass > Desert > Snow > Islands... Same "story" of chasing a bowser airship through the map.
Yeah, that's because it's a fricking 2d mario game. All that shit applies to 3 and world too.
Have some imagination anon.
dont threaten me with a good time
NSMBW was the peak.
Luigi > Wii = DS >U > 2
The movement options were pretty good. Having stuff like groundpound and wall jump in 2d was pretty neat.
Luigi U is best
2 is worst
Luigi is a dlc
The moment they show that you have to fight the same old mini boss in the 1-4 castle is the moment everyone will realize NSMB is still here.
nah, for me is the wallpaper/tileset look where the is really flat looking and mario walks on a like, no other sidescroller does this, not kirby, donkey kong or even metroid you can actually see the characters walking on the ground
Are you saying you want the camera to be sited down slightly so you can see the surface of the ground?
It can't be because the ground is literally a flat 2D sprite.
yeah I guess, it reallly seems like only NSMB/Wonder is the only 3D sidescroller that has a tileset look to it
look at Sonic Superstars, DKCTF, Metroid Dread, even games that has a similar animation style like Kirby rainbow curse, hell even Mario Maker 2 with 3D World mode, you can see the ground where the player stands on, rather than appearing like the are walking on wallpaper
dont' get me wrong I still think the game looks great, is just a nitpick that bothered me for years on the same vein as Animal Crossing perpetually usual the rolling log word when I prefered the orginal GC Look to the world but still loved New Leaf
It's because Nintendo can't be bothered making a new 2D Mario engine. They use one designed for a DS GAME because they've streamlined development for it. But this means there will be no actual 3D graphics aside from characters - just like the DS game.
I don't think is the same engine but idrk I'm not a dev, it seems moreso that they are purposely giving it that look, with Mario Maker 2 having the 3D World mode shows that they can simply choose not have wallpaper for surfaces
Did you have a stroke while typing this?
yeah meant to say walk on a surface thats absolutely flat like is wallpaper
I liked the first one the most but the multilayer in NSMB Wii was fun.
Wonder is literally just NSMB with slightly improved graphics.
None of the games are bad it's just people got tired of looking at the exact same shit and hearing the same music. Bing bing wahoo has been mostly the same gameplay wise since 85, a change in graphics is what people have been begging for.
SMB1, 2 and 3 all feel wildly different from each other. World too. It's not just the graphics, the core of the platforming is the same but there's so much different stuff in the games.
This. I don’t know why they were so insistent on using so much of the same themes and music between the games.
Weirdly enough they broke the mold once in NSMBU with Painted Swampland that had some fun Van Gogh inspired backdrops. No idea why they bothered for just one level, but it was a nice change of scenery.
To be completely honest
NES smb original and smb2.
Everything after is trash and the same game as smb.
Smb2 was different yet simple, fun and full of soul.
Smb3 was the beginning of the bullshit, new smb on ds is unironically better than this trash.
t. really played these nes games as a kid on NES, not an emulator gay.
All of them are fun and I'm tired of pretending otherwise
>NSMB
was really fresh when it came out and did some great things for the series like adding the 3 star coins per level, the mini mushroom is a good idea that rewards good play, the mega mushroom was a fresh take on the super star power up. the various minigames that were included with it were great fun and worked well with the portable nature of the DS.
>NSMB Wii
It's a decent Mario game with some fun powerups, the Propeller Suit and Penguin Suit are fun to use and are utilized well to get secrets/star coins. The co-op is where this game shines and is a great party game. Another evolution of the series.
>NSMB 2
The gold gimmick was fun and the levels were designed with speeding through them and building a score in mind, making the gameplay much more akin to an arcade type score attack game or wario land.
>NSMB U
The pinnacle of the "New" series, a return to the level design and gameplay philosophy that was perfected in Super Mario World. Better co-op, more "party" modes, a challenge mode and some of the best levels in the series makes this not just the best of the "New" games but one of the best 2D Mario games of all time.
>NSLU
An amazing remix of NSMB U focusing on blistering fast, challenging gameplay that will push your Mario skills to the limit. A fantastic coda to the entire NSMB series.
All true. I think the main things people don't like is "New" in the title and how the art style didn't change.
the art style did change, the main thing are the surfaces are still flat to the screen which makes it look like NSMB
oh disregard, is about NSMB in general not SMBWonder
My main issue was reused music
same, the graphics being 'the same' was only true on surface level, there were at least still different backdrop art and other differences here and there.. the music was always the fricking same though and the BAHs and enemies reacting were the worst parts of the series
C▪u•c•ked, very c•uc▪ked, how tragic, NuSMB was only good on DS and Wii, even the fanmade New Super Mario Land feels flacid because of the NuSMB design paintcoat.
don't you have some "forced soul" posts to make?
>The real best one
I feel the amount of co-op multiplayer I put in this game with my brother puts this above DS but other than that they both are equal.
DS has better castle bosses but Wii has better Bowser Jr fights for example. I really hope Wonder is as fun as Wii and DS were because that's all that matters.
My personal 2D Mario List
New Super Mario Bros Wii
New Super Mario Bros DS
SMB3
Super Mario World
SMB1
SMB2
Mario Wii U
NSMB2
Lost Levels
2 and U are school projects basically. Nintendo made those games to train new hires. New Super Mario Bros and Wii were both fresh and introduced new things to 2D Mario. The problem is 2 and U came out in literally the same year and didn't even change the look or music. If they at very least superficially had their own identity I bet they wouldn't reviled like they are now.
2 was the "training course". U is genuinely regarded as the best of the bunch, great level design.
This
People HATE Mario Wii's artstyle for how it "ruined" the artstyle of Mario Games for years yet they forgot the fact this was the DS artstyle brought to screen as the DS couldn't properly showcase the art on the box for example. Also that it came out in 2009 when Games like Mario Galaxy and Mario Strikers Charged had unique art styles. I more so blame NSMB2 and Wii U for this as after those games came out EVERY Mario game looked like them.
The first one was great because it was sort of like a reimagining of the original SMB where they stripped everything from the other 2D games and returned to the basics with a little extra. I had hoped as the series progressed they would incorporate more elements from the other 2D games, but that never happened and it was just boring.
The first one was great because it was a "real" Mario game and not a 20-minute game like Super Mario Land. It felt like a great package for a handheld.
>I had hoped as the series progressed they would incorporate more elements from the other 2D games, but that never happened
Koopa Kids and Yoshi are the only things I can think of
I wish NSMB2 could've been a sort of reimagining/direct sequel to SMB2, and there could've been a third one inspired by Mario 3 and another one inspired by Mario World. Maybe not strictly that, but add an inventory system and a whole lot of items and powerups like 3 had or perhaps bring back Yoshi and expand on his koopa shell powers. Instead it felt like they kept taking SMB1 and adding more and more fluff to it.
a novel idea at the time that was fun, but now it's been bastardized and re-packaged/re-sold every couple of years without any innovation
Only played the original DS game and Wii. The DS game was one of the few games I had for the system for awhile, but I enjoyed replaying levels and collecting all the coins. Mini games were generally pretty fun, the Luigi poker game was GOAT and I had thousands of coins from that. Meanwhile Wii's real redeeming factor was being able to play with three other people, even if everyone tried to sabotage one another half the time.
Wonder doesn't look that different honestly. Unless there's proof it's being worked on by the Odyssey team or something it's only different in name only.
This could've been avoided if they kept making soulful 2D Marios for GBA instead of dumping it with ports.
It was a good series.
Having only just started playing Mario these last few months, I feel like NSMB embody everything negative I ever thought or felt regarding Mario. But I only completed the DS and 3DS ones, perhaps the Wii and Wii U games were amazing.
>Galaxy 1 that low
>SM64 that high
Galaxy is an awkward midpoint between Sunshine and 3D World, that's all, doesn't do anything special or interesting
64 is fricking awesome
Based except Odyssey is criminally low, what happened?
The kingdoms after Metro Kingdom were really not interesting imo
>64 in S
>another Yoshi's Island overrater
game sucks and I've 100%ed it
>no 3D Land
>SMB2 that fricking high
no
The challenges in NSMBU are the only part of any NSMB game I ever really liked. I wish they'd make a challenge for every level in the game, I particularly like the "don't touch the coins" ones. Everything else in the franchise just felt like "well I guess that was a game that exists" after I finished
I just hope Wonder breaks from the grass-desert-water-forest-ice-mountain-sky-lava template
Repeating that 4 times really made NSMB feel samey more than anything
If they don't break from the template I at least hope they give the worlds actual names and give them a more interesting themes. Even reuse gimmick like the Forest of Illusion would be better than just a boring old forest again.
The trailer already showed that it's basically the same biomes again. You're also chasing an airship from world to world again in the map.
The thing that makes the "new" games truly terrible to me is that the music is so sleepy and uninspired. The musical themes for these games have barely changed at all across all of them.
I listen to the OSTs and there's some good music around the edges but most of the time the game is caught up spamming "bah" playing the overworld, underground, or castle themes.
I think one of the reasons NSMB felt oversaturated was because barely any notable mario games came out in this era. There was only one NSMB game per console, DS, wii, 3ds and wii u, but no cool mario game to go alongside with like sunshine or odyssey. just party games, and crappy rpgs. 3D world, 3D land, and even the paper mario series also felt too similar to NSMB in terms of aetsethic.
You're forgetting Galaxy 1 and 2 (2007 and 2010)
true, but still at that point NSMB didnt feel stale yet, it was only DS and wii. Now that I remember the wii more it also had strikers charged, as well as super paper mario whose story atmosphere and aesthetic is probably the most crazy in any mario game, and. I guess it was mostly the 3ds and wii u era to blame
Aside from the first one they all merge together in my mind. I dunno how true this is but I remember hearing that the later NSMB games were effectively just used as training for younger designers at Nintendo.
All of them handle kinda strangely and the music is bad. Any interesting environments were only allowed in the big 3D games
Never liked the way these feel to play. Mario is slippery and has a lot of hang time in the air. Such a step back from the tightness of SMW
I always disliked the naming scheme
>New Super Mario Bros is already lazy and cheap sounding
>New Super Mario Bros Wii doesn't roll off the tongue
>New Super Mario Bros 2 is the third fricking game
>New Super Mario Bros U sounds awful
>Now that this franchise is officially finished/dead.
Are you just a crybaby because you arn't going to love long enough to play it? How long do you have left to live 2 weeks? You suddenly b***h about it now? Instead of ten years ago? They made like 6 New Super Mario Bros but suddenly now because another game comes out like usual its all over?
DKC tropical freeze makes these games look like shovelware
it makes wonder look like shovelware too
And retro is not allowed to make anything but Metroid Prime, a game where whole appeal is backtracking.
NSMB DS is one of the best 2D Mario games and would be remembered as such if not for the others
It's the same fricking game with the same graphics across four different consoles spanning a decade. It was mediocre as frick to play and nowhere near as challenging as the originals. It's forced soul and trash.
>Luigi the best
>2 the worst
Anything else is largely based on either level design preference or potential nostalgia based on one's first tendie.
Mario U was cool. I think 1-1 was designed so you could actually beat it without ever touching the ground or something.
nsmbwii is the greatest local multiplayer game of all time
there i said it
This series is the biggest ammo that Nintendo critics have when it comes to Nintendo rehashing games. The only reason most here even liked NSMB DS and Wii is due to them being moronic zoomers who have childhood nostalgia glasses for those two games whereas NSMB 2, U and L are mostly shitted on.
I hate this series so fricking much. Nintendo and Miyamoto became autistic during the 2010s and this was their vision for Mario during that time. As such, they mangled and gutted Paper Mario to resemble NSMB. The first NSMB game was fine, but everything after is cancer.
Wonder is the exact same bland shit you fricking moron.
cope
NTA but it really is just NSMB Switch edition.
seethe
I'd say it looks to be shaking it up enough for it to not just be another NSMB game.
I'd agree with what this anon said
In that the New series is basically just a bunch of glorified expansions, and I'd say Wonder is the first ACTUAL sequel to NSMB.
NSMB is fine
NSMB2 is boring
NSMBWii is fine
NSMBU is boring
NSLU is great
I'd say they're more consistent in quality than the classic Super Mario games, but that consistent quality is very average. Games like SMB3 and World had their share of bad levels imo, but it also had much higher highs than the New series ever reaches.
It's hard to hate the New series though, they're fun and while every entry is more of the same, if you like what NSMB is then I guess that's fine.
NSMB2 is honestly the only time I would ever use the word "Soulless" to describe something, literally what was even the point of that game
Nintendo needed to whip up something quick to save the 3DS from the slow initial sales.
To be honest, I never owned a DS, Wii or 3DS. I played the newer version on Mario Maker but that’s about it. The new mechanics were annoying and I just wanted to play the old 2D style instead. I can’t bring myself to play these games. I know they’re the Mario mandate memes, but real. It’s a soulless cash grab that can’t compare to 1, 3 or World, so why should I care? Renaming it from “New” to “Wonder” doesn’t fool me at all. I might try it though.
>each world has completely random levels instead of all levels being of that world's theme
it's trash
You're thinking of 3D World.
NSMB2 does not have thematic levels
1 was good, a bit limited by the DS, but the most creative, especially when looking at bosses and power ups
Wii was probably the best, was reasonably distinct from the first, hell I'd say moreso than the average sequel. Also people seem to have completely forgotten there was a time were people were begging for the Koopalings to return, almost on the level of Smash roster begging.
2 and U just feel like level packs for Wii to be honest, not necessarily a bad thing but the level themes at least should be a bit more unique
What's so bad about NSMB2? So far it's the hardest modern mario game I've played, everything else has been a breeze
The original New on DS had an awesome local multiplayer mode that was simple but way more fun than it had any right to be
They are good games but insanely derivative of the first one
There was Mario Maker's 3D World in-between NSMB and Wonderful though.
used to kick my cousin's ass in the versus mode of the original
Remember when NSMBW was announced and everyone was hyped that the Koopalings were back?
I think we first found out through demo footage too rather than a trailer.
I don't know why. They were always shit bosses. 2D Mario literally never topped getting past Bowser to hit the button.
because there was a 19 year gap between that game and the last home console 2d mario game
People liked them as characters not so much for gameplay.
Junior was despised for a good while for usurping their place as Bowser's son.
I like them in Mario Maker 2. Simple yet versatile enough.
https://gonintendo.com/archives/79977-new-super-mario-bros-2-has-koopa-kids
https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/06/03/e3-2009-return-of-the-koopalings