New Vegas fans thinking it has the best dialogue system when it removed the percentage chance of a dialogue working based on charisma and intelligence only proves that New Vegas fans are literal morons with 0 social skills, which would explain why it’s so popular on here.
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Are you done with your sperg-out, phonehomosexual?
NV is dogshit and somehow managed to be an even uglier eyesore than FO3
gotem
Yeah, that's right. This is our website, normalgay.
Nobody actually respected the chance system, they just reloaded until their shitty attempt succeeded.
Yeah but it was still a better system than NV. Maybe Bethesda should try removing the ability to save at literally any time you want so that the player might have to actually think about what they’re doing instead of just quicksaving before sperging out on every option until they get the result they want.
>so that the player might have to actually think about what they’re doing
Yeah, you do that in NV with the skill points, stupid.
It's A shit system that encourages savescumming. Random chance dice rolls for dialogue or lockpicking etc are fine in tabletop games where the DM can adjust on the fly but in video games it just encourages savescumming.
To this day I don't understand the mindset of someone who wouldn't spec high into speech ASAP anyway. These sorts of games always feel half played if you don't have a high speaking level.
speech is easy mode. if anything it's more interesting to see what other options there are, because speech is literally always 'tell them to do it and they do it' without any regard to whether it's the best thing for them.
What a low intelligence postvkxnx8
It's true. Speech, guns/small guns/energy weapons, lockpick/science in all Fallout games. It's impossible to pick any other build than this. It simply cannot be done.
Unarmed, explosives, lockpick actually.
I think you're fully expected to distribute your stats like that though, one or two combat skills and one or two "getting into locked places" skills, you would basically have to be doing something weird on purpose not to
That's actually a good point. Not speccing in speech is denying yourself on the game's writing, which is what devs tend to invest in for RPGs
Yeah it’s better to just remove any chance of the player having to think about their dialogue choices and character build instead, right? How does removing a good feature (percentage chance dialogue success) because it can be overridden by a bad feature (quicksave) instead of removing the bad feature make a game better??? They removed the depth of dialogue and replaced it with an endless wall of options in the hopes that no one would notice that half the point of the game is gone now.
New vegas system
>put points into skill into order to succeed
The choice and consequence is moved to the character build and level up screen, where you have to spend your limited skill points in order to succeed at the possible future skill checks related to a variety of your character skills, or spend your supply of skill magazines to succeed instead.
>random chance system
Reload until you succeed, only player discipline prevents this.
Because it's a shitty system that never made any sense to begin with. If you put the proper points into science then you can pass a science check if need be. If you put the proper points into speech then you'll pass speech checks if need be. If you don't then you don't. You're saying that dice rolls is somehow better than player choice and consequence or that save scumming to get around consequences is the better of the two options and how the frick is that better?
Is this some sort of weird ass contrarian thread used to justify discussion of Fallout 3?
>reloaded
You didn't beat the game.
[Intelligence] So you do the needful with your posts for Bethesda on Ganker.org/v/.
Speak english you fricking moron.
Goodmorning Sirs!
Motherfrick you sir
NOOOOOO DO NOT REDEEM
YOU DO NOT REDEEM THE PLATINUM CHIP
YOUR MOTHER prostitute BASTARD
So you are bich okay??? Madarchod
>the percentage chance of a dialogue working based on charisma and intelligence
this only ever encouraged savescumming
>its a bethestard that never played FO1/2 level
Nobody is playing those, get over it.
i know many people who did, you're missing out
what's the matter, pardner? can't just savescum past a speech check?
Disco Elysium easily beat it by a mile.
NV is the overall better game but the gimick of your diffrent skills giving you advice on what to say/do in DE was 10/10.
Both are 10s for me in what they set out to do, not everything has to be a competition
Oh absolutly, hell I even said I still like NV a bit more. I just think the way DE dealt with speech checks was better even though I'm not even that big on RNG in my vidya.
DE is best on the second playthrough when you edit the save .text files to give Harry max stats so all of his voices are highly active and fighting with each other in his head. Pure schizo mode, it's great.
Well duh, even Josh Sawyer admits that.
FO1 isn't a holy brahmin, otherwise every other game should have CHA doing nothing but adding a negligible skill boost.
Having your party size scale with it was the only thing keeping it from being a dump stat
Yes, and they added that feature in 2. In FO1 it's garbage.
In NV at least it *technically* does something by making your companions harder to kill and more effective in combat. I think Arcanum actually "solved" SPECIAL, though. The skills are capped by stats, so you can't raise your ebin Speech skill if you lack Charisma. Arcanum, however, also allows you to raise any stat at any point, and is an imbalanced mess which would benefit from a lot more playtesting than it got.
I hope you didn't exert yourself knocking that strawman over
Google image search New Vegas femboy, bring something back
There is literally not one part in this picture that explains what makes Fallout new vegas a fav among troons
Congratulations, you’ve discovered bullshit propaganda
Because it's a popular game that a lot of non troons have done playthroughs of as a female character at least once because of the differences in dialogue. This makes it a prime target for gaslighting normal people into becoming trannies, that's why the "NV is for trannies" meme came about so suddenly and is so often spammed on Ganker, everyone posting it is pushing a troony agenda to try and brainwash people into mutilating their bodies.
Trannies love RPGs, RPGCodex used to have a bunch of prominent trans posters.
>people who want to be female like games where you can play a female and there are dialogue differences and unique options for women
shocking truth!
There's no stats to back it up either. There's been no poll, no survey, no anything beyond some cherrypicked screenshots of twitter and discord. The only people saying this shit are either trannies pushing propaganda or Gankertards trying to rile others up.
This is true for the entirety of the whole troony movement.
have a nice day troony projector
Lmao
Not gonna read that wall of deranged babbling but it makes sense that troids would become obsessed with a game about a guy who was assaulted by a man, forgot his identity, and now lives in a filthy, depressing, puke colored shithole with bright flashing lights. It’s literally the life story of every troony.
Anon please it’s illegal to own Black folk like that anymore
How did this happen?
It's stupid that charisma has no effect on checks but it shouldn't be a diceroll
wasn't 1 the only game with this i'm pretty sure they removed it in 2 and replaced it with invisible checks
This one got me. Frick.
YWNBAW
Agreed.
OP you still haven’t explained why a random chance of succeeding is better than having to meet a threshold to succeed. You just keep rambling on as if it should be obvious; it isn’t.
>dialogue working based on charisma and intelligence
You do generally need to meet a threshold to succeed. I believe the chance almost never being at 100% was their way of simulating the fact that sometimes people just aren’t in the mood to agree with or go along with you for one reason or another that is often out of your control or even your awareness. Or perhaps it’s to simulate how sometimes you can say the right thing to the right person at the right time but maybe you said it with the wrong tone or inflection and it just didn’t land right. These things are all nearly impossible to simulate in a videogame, especially back when New Vegas was being developed. It felt far more realistic knowing that even if I say the right thing there’s a chance it still won’t work. The idea of just plugging in the correct option because I met the requirements for it to pass totally ruined the dialogue for me.
You're overthinking it. It's not a life simulator, it's a game.
>You do generally need to meet a threshold to succeed. I believe the chance almost never being at 100% was their way of simulating the fact that sometimes people just aren’t in the mood to agree with or go along with you for one reason or another that is often out of your control or even your awareness
Exactly, you've said everything correct and nothing wrong, but here I am calling you a queef just because I'm a bad person.
>It felt far more realistic knowing that even if I say the right thing there’s a chance it still won’t work.
Which is an aspects of immersion that is immediately destroyed when the player immediately reloads in order to pass the check.
Yes but that’s not an issue with the dialogue, it’s an issue with quicksave.
It is an aspect of the dialogue that encourages reloading in order to pass. It completely removes the player's choices or personal skill from the experience and makes it an arbitrary randkom check instead, which can be bypassed by repeatedly attempting in via reloads.
>New Vegas fan cannot FATHOM consequences for his actions and savescums to win
Putrid fanbase
>you didnt beat le game
We're reaching bottom of the barrel cope with this one F3bros
You made that argument up in your head anon. Nobody claimed that except you.
>new Vegas fan
Literally every player will do this, random chance dialogue is annoying and encourages savescumming to circumvent it.
Oh yeah? Is there a dialogue system that encourages you to have a nice day for being a savescumming homosexual?
Replace the word “dialogue” with “quicksave” and you’d be correct. It’s a problem in every Bethesda game. I’d do the same thing in Dishonored when going for a stealth run and just quicksave after every guard I knocked out and if I got caught by the next guard I’d just savescum. Savescumming was the problem, not the dialogue system. Use literally any other save system and at the very least it becomes more work to savescum than literally reloading a save file standing right in front of the npc you want to talk to and trying again.
Just stop save scumming for fricks sake
Stop putting frustrating systems in games that encourage savescumming
>having a conversation
>frustrating
My point exactly. New Vegas fans are morons.
How about you just keep your fricking finger off the rewind time button, b***h breasts? Can't control yourself?
>Put system in game
>nuh uh you can't use that
Stop putting shit systems in game
>It's the game's fault I have to reload four times because I can't cope with not getting my dopamine hit from a successful speech check
Hoo boy
Also vice versa, you could be in a situation where you absolutely should not be able to get away with a dialogue option but for whatever reason you said it and it worked. It was just a lot more fun and made the NPCs feel like they had their own personalities aside from the dialogue options that were written for them by a game dev.
it's because 3 used a d20 roll so you always had a 5% chance to crit fail/succeed
Good system, they should go back to using it.
The problem with speech isn't the fact it's no longer dictated by chance (quite the opposite that's a good change) but the fact that all you need is to meet the required skill check and it's an instawin.
Speech/Barter needs to function like hacking or lockpicking where the skill check gives you the chance to play a minigame and you need to complete said minigame to get the actual pass.
>dialogue minigames
Actually minigames are cancer and a moronic relic from the beginning of the downfall of gaming, and exist solely as an excuse to remove RPG elements.
>this
Stupid “skill” minigames fricking suck.
Speech is one of the weaker aspects of the game, anyone who's done more than 1 playthrough can tell you that, because the outcomes are the same each time. there are no evil or manipulative options, just have X amount and complete the quest. the dialogue is ironically much better and more informative when you don't bother with Speech. but you can't deny that having other skill checks like Science, Guns, and Survival is a good idea.
>but you can't deny that having other skill checks like Science, Guns, and Survival is a good idea.
Agreed, it’s a great idea, if they had incorporated that into the older dialogue system and removed quicksave it would be phenomenal.
Random dice roll speech checks are moronic. The New Vegas system of "it's a skill check, therefore good" is its own blend of moronic and there's only a single skill check in the entire game as far as I know that breaks this mold (that one that people complain about which locks you out of sparing Dean Domino in Dead Money because it comes out of nowhere)
There should be skill check options that are bad. You should be able to say things based on your knowledge that you wouldn't otherwise have that frick up the conversation anyway. Players should be prompted to think about what they're saying, not rolling the dice on if 3-Dog is going to make them do his sidequest or just mindlessly spamming the speech options when talking to Lanius.
>Random dice roll speech checks are moronic.
Ah, how could I have been so blind. Truly now I see.
New Vegas' system is perfect aside from one minor flaw: it needed to obfuscate the fact that the dialogue was a skill check like F1 and 2.
skill minigames like lockpicking and hacking defeat the purpose of the skill in the first place. If your character has a maxed skill but (you) can't beat the minigame in spite of that then what's the point of the skill?
woops
the new vegas skill check works just fine and dice rolls are gay and there's no other options beyond that
if you want bad skill checks literally just fricking use terrifying presence you monkey
Removing the chance was a good move, but they should've also removed the shit in the dialog boxes telling you if something is a speech check or not.
Alternatively, this is a decent idea
>There should be skill check options that are bad. You should be able to say things based on your knowledge that you wouldn't otherwise have that frick up the conversation anyway. Players should be prompted to think about what they're saying, not rolling the dice on if 3-Dog is going to make them do his sidequest or just mindlessly spamming the speech options when talking to Lanius.
Fricking this. I'd love situations where trying to use Speech to smoothtalk your way through something instead has your character frick up a critical detail that tips off someone to the fact that you're bullshitting and causes bad things to happen. Something like the scene in Gundam 0080 where one of the main characters tries to infiltrate a base with his team while posing as a group of new recruits, but blows their cover while doing idle chit-chat with a guard because he said he was from Australia and then talked about how cold it is there during Christmas.
That would be [Science 3/10] failure
deterministic > dice rolls
RNG skill checks is cargo cult from pen&paper and doesn't translate to vidya
Completely deterministic dialogue is fricking boring and robotic. You might as well not even have dialogue and just have to walk through a checkpoint that only unlocks at a certain skill level.
>Completely deterministic dialogue is fricking boring and robotic
And failing a speech check when you damn well shouldn’t is bullshit that encourages savescumming. This conversation is going to go in circles forever
>all these words to say "NV fans are dumb autists"
Not the brightest bulb yourself.
No, all those words are to say “New Vegas is the most overrated Fallout and the main aspect people praise about it is it’s absolute worst feature.” NV fans being autists is just an obvious side fact.
Percentage didn't add anything to the system beyond the chance of being unlucky with high speech. The only thing bad about NV's system is that it tells you what options require what stats, it should've been unknown like FO1 and 2 and made you think about what you're choosing.
What NVgays don't understand is that's how it's worked since Fallout 1
Since when was it a percentage in Fo1?
And it's just a relic of trying to emulate tabletop.
Oh wow, you hate NV that makes you so unique and interesting.
dirty dumb phoneposting scum
>when i see any mountain or hill
>"is this a fallout nv reference?"
Those are Skyrim references idiot, consider your gaming licenses revoked
You know the game introduced skill magazines that give you temporary bonuses for checks, right?