If the gnomes had made female ogresses rape the male nobles to death instead of male ogres raping the female nobles, would people still be so anti-gnome?
Well seeing as the gnomes killed off most of the royalty and in a way are Tarants oligarchy the answer is yes. The gnomes are the Illuminati and have their greedy sticky talons in every vile underground you can think of. That is why I choose to destroy Tarant instead, by destroying all steam engines and bolstering all surrounding kingdoms(Cumbria and Arland) and towns(shrouded hills and forgot the other one)
No they are independent, technically ashbury isn't however you can get them to repledge taxes to Cumberland and switch sides if you deal with the bandits, since tarant is just doesn't care about other places.
You're thinking of Blackroot, Ashbury is on the east coast.
Why were they using nobles? Wouldn't it make more sense to snatch up street urchins and prostitutes who won't be missed?
They started with prostitutes, but women of poorer health always died in delivery. Nobles could give birth several times through cesarean sections. Also, after getting rid of the king they deliberately targeted the wives and daughters of nobles still hostile to them in a terror campaign.
so a large plot in this game is that of a small, ugly, nepotistic and power-hungry race enacting forced breeding programs between a large, violent, animalistic race and a noble, civilized race to punish and gain control over the latter and create a half-wit slave race to rule over in the process? sounds familiar, but I can't quite put my finger on it
>so a large plot in this game is that of a small, ugly, nepotistic and power-hungry race enacting forced breeding programs between a large, violent, animalistic race and a noble, civilized race to punish and gain control over the latter and create a half-wit slave race to rule over in the process
Yea, but dark elves are still the bad guys!
my opinion:
big dick bulge
tall
smart
big jaw
Muscles
has hot grill next to him
Your opinion:
Skinny
ugly
no penis bulge
Wears glasses
FRICK YOU FRICK YOU FRICK YOU
YOU UGLYYYY!!!!
Not to beat a dead horse, but this website and that sseth review are the only places I've seen address the anti semitic undertones of the gnomes in this setting. This redditor is a normie who caught on and everyone in the comments is treating him like a crazy person lol
This game was a fairly big release for the RPG scene at the time, and its reputation has only grown since then. Yet, this aspect of the game is just never commented on in the mainstream. Either there was a stormfronter as a lead writer or it was an incredible mistake. The latter beggars belief. A cosmopolitan, financially successful and clannish race that others mistrust and persecute. Except, they're right to do so because there really is a gnomish conspiracy to ensure financial domination and physical security using the sexual violation and physical mutilation and slaughter of innocent shiksas. And no one thought this beared unfortunate resemblance to real life, historical anti semitism. This would be like if Sawyer made the blood libel real in Pentiment. Insanity.
Literally everyone I coerced to play Arcanum noticed this and was pretty amused by it, also I believe one or two devs were actual neo-nazis (based) given some portraits in the base game later on removed/altered.
believe it or not, but nobody read /misc/ in 2001. they're going for the victorian early industrialisation vibe and phrenology, antisemitism and everyday casual racism is very much a part of that.
I suppose we can only thank /misc/ and similar places for teaching the world about what antisemitism is, because I was like 12 years old and I sure as frick didn't notice back then. there's no way it was accidental.
If anti gnomish sentiment was just included as a kind of clumsy allegory for anti semitism, I wouldn't think anything of it. But again, in Arcanum the anti gnomish allegations actually end up being true. And not just in the sense that gnomes work together out of common interest, but they have an evil agenda and what amounts to "racial goals," i.e.their physical stature provokes a need for material security and a compliant race of brutes for protection. A race of golems, basically. They are incompatible, fundamentally, with a human society. The conspiracy is incredibly sophisticated. They allow tidbits to slip out and leak to half-mad weirdos in order to discredit people investigating the conspiracy and the questline ends with a gnome gaslighting you and making it clear you are powerless. It is a curious inclusion is all I'm saying. If it was a neo-nazi who wrote this thing, then it's a very well done and scary exposition of his world view. If it wasn't, then I'm wondering what the hell he was thinking.
for me it's kinda like how Deus Ex has all these boomer ass conspiracy theories in it. depiction does not equal endorsement, at least it didn't back then.
Right, I know that. There are plenty of stories that depict racism or bigotry and don't feel the need to go out of the way to condemn it or punish characters for being bigoted. I'm not mistaking that for endorsement. Arcanum is notable in that the gnome quest seems to prove that bigotry against gnomes is actually rational and that a thorough investigation of the truth reveals all the worst allegations to be true. It would be like if I wrote a story set in an allegory for the antebellum south and included a planter class and some kind of allegorical black people race. But I then reveal that the black people race are genuinely happiest in servitude and not responsible enough to live as free people. It would be fair to ask why I included that, right? That goes a bit beyond just depicting the setting. I suppose that I could do it as a kind of Starship Troopers thing, where I'm satirizing the kind of story that a southern racist would write, but I didn't detect that in Arcanum.
I'm not accusing the Arcanum team of shit, I'm just really curious what they meant by that. Unfortunately, the lead writer is some guy named "R.G. Mortimer" who seems to have vanished into smoke after Arcanum came out, so I have no idea what he's all about.
Do they have to "mean anything by that"? can't we just have some victorian fun and measure some skulls and complain about gnomes or Black folk or whoever? that's what I'm objecting to. the notion that there must be some ulterior motive.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The question I think, is whether such a story can be neutral at all. Whatever the author's intent might have been. If he accidentally wrote a story that happens to perfectly align with like, The Turner Diaries, then that is a hell of a mistake. I just want to know more about that the author was thinking. Because the way the gnomes are written now, if the author was outed as a stormgay it wouldn't surprise me even a little.
>Can't we just have some victorian fun?
I think the issue here, is that you can write a story where phrenology and race science are real, respected, and not challenged by the narrative, and also not have it be 100% confirmed. Indeed, it wouldn't adequately portray the Victorian era without some kind anti semitism allegory. But why was every anti semitic allegation proven to be true? The decision to do so here was an aesthetic choice and I'm just not sure what the purpose of it was. You can say it has no meaning, but why include it at all? Clearly, a lot of anti semites are getting the message loud and clear. Was that intended? It just makes me wonder.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Was the conspiracy quest not interesting and engaging?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah of course, I am just curious about the conclusion of the quest. A conspiracy about the creation of half ogres that happens to be true, ok, that's fine. It's just that when we consider what the gnomes are an allegory for, and the nature of this conspiracy, it starts to seem dicey. The game is all about subverting prophecies and easy narratives, so why is this particular one true?
Anyway, I've been doing some research and no developer seems to have ever commented on this quest. So I guess unless I can get Tim Cain on the horn and ask him I'll never know.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I don't think it was all a coincidence.
2 years ago
Anonymous
How did they get away with that?
The propaganda poster epsecially is super obvious
2 years ago
Anonymous
Most of that could easily be coincidental. There are confederate general portraits but also union generals, indicating that they're just going for that bushy faced, 19th century look. The Arcanum symbol really doesn't overly resemble a swastika and it's such a basic symbol that it's easy to stumble on. Same thing with the circular cross. I find the idea that it's a tribute to some intermediary nazi logo to be a stretch too. The Japanese communist party also incorporates a circular gear in its logo. It's a very intuitive symbol to represent industry and technology.
Derek's potential inclusion is a little odd though. "On the Orcish question" is a bit of dark humor. And the thing that really sticks out is the fricking gnome quest. That alone makes everything else seem more suspicious. Don Throgg'd rhetoric is more like an early union activist/communist type. But why is he an ubermensch lol. The molochean hand symbol is the star of David too. When you add all this up it really does seem suspicious. The idea that someone on the team was a Nazi and snuck in a lot of this shit starts to seem believable. But 2001 was also just a more innocent, less politically charged time. So the chance that it's all a coincidence isn't totally unbelievable either.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Oh frick off you insufferable c**t. Seriously, just have a nice day.
>Unfortunately, the lead writer is some guy named "R.G. Mortimer" who seems to have vanished into smoke after Arcanum came out, so I have no idea what he's all about.
Edward R.G. Mortimer was a writer for a tabletop games publisher called Judge's Guild. He wrote several stories and supplements for them.
Time Magic is an excellent addition if you're already raising Willpower and investing in spells. Tempus Fugit is an investment but is a huge force multiplier if you are going to have a ton of minions.
Yes, like female dwarfs, halflings, gnomes etc. However the developer didn't bother to create models for them so they came up with excuses why you never see them.
If the gnomes had made female ogresses rape the male nobles to death instead of male ogres raping the female nobles, would people still be so anti-gnome?
that's a valid criticism, and likely not.
depends on how large proportion of male humans are into femdom
Well seeing as the gnomes killed off most of the royalty and in a way are Tarants oligarchy the answer is yes. The gnomes are the Illuminati and have their greedy sticky talons in every vile underground you can think of. That is why I choose to destroy Tarant instead, by destroying all steam engines and bolstering all surrounding kingdoms(Cumbria and Arland) and towns(shrouded hills and forgot the other one)
Aren't Shrouded Hills and Ashbury both part of the Unified Kingdom with Tarant?
No they are independent, technically ashbury isn't however you can get them to repledge taxes to Cumberland and switch sides if you deal with the bandits, since tarant is just doesn't care about other places.
You're thinking of Blackroot, Ashbury is on the east coast.
They started with prostitutes, but women of poorer health always died in delivery. Nobles could give birth several times through cesarean sections. Also, after getting rid of the king they deliberately targeted the wives and daughters of nobles still hostile to them in a terror campaign.
Thanks for the correction, been too long since I've played it.
They need gassed.
Why were they using nobles? Wouldn't it make more sense to snatch up street urchins and prostitutes who won't be missed?
humiliation ritual plus, getting rid of opponents. Plus they were using street urchins and prostitutes.
Well they'd still be trying to create a half-wit slave race with which to erode humanity and usurp human civilization, so yes.
so a large plot in this game is that of a small, ugly, nepotistic and power-hungry race enacting forced breeding programs between a large, violent, animalistic race and a noble, civilized race to punish and gain control over the latter and create a half-wit slave race to rule over in the process? sounds familiar, but I can't quite put my finger on it
>so a large plot in this game is that of a small, ugly, nepotistic and power-hungry race enacting forced breeding programs between a large, violent, animalistic race and a noble, civilized race to punish and gain control over the latter and create a half-wit slave race to rule over in the process
Yea, but dark elves are still the bad guys!
I got bored one day and replaced almost all the character portraits with porn stars.
Advanced coomery. I hope you feel a little ashamed, at least.
No.
It's a bad, overrated game that isn't any fun to actually play. Does it really need constant 24/7 threads?
(you)
I'm not mad though.
OMG I POSTED SOMETHING ONLINE...
AND SOMEONE REPLIED TO IT DISAGREEING WITH ME?
NOOOOO U ARE THIS UGLY IMAGE!!!!!!
FRICK YOU FRICK YOU FRICK YOU FRICK YOU FRICK YOU
my opinion:
big dick bulge
tall
smart
big jaw
Muscles
has hot grill next to him
Your opinion:
Skinny
ugly
no penis bulge
Wears glasses
FRICK YOU FRICK YOU FRICK YOU
YOU UGLYYYY!!!!
they hated him because he told them the truth
>Does it really need constant 24/7 threads?
yes it does, being spammed on /vr/ is the only attention that trash game gets
why would it be bad?
> isn't any fun to actually play
skill issue
> t. completed the game as a summoner mage a week ago
>his example of having fun is summoning npcs to play the game for you
Do you also enjoy idle games?
Is cookie clicker your favorite rpg?
>Do you also enjoy idle games?
>Is cookie clicker your favorite rpg?
Yes.
Got a problem with that?
>actually play
If you are combatgay then RPG genre isn't for you. Go play skyrim or something, I bet it will be fun for you to play.
It's just that the average gamer is an uncultured subhuman that can't find enjoyment in reading.
For me it's Harm.
Not to beat a dead horse, but this website and that sseth review are the only places I've seen address the anti semitic undertones of the gnomes in this setting. This redditor is a normie who caught on and everyone in the comments is treating him like a crazy person lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/arcanum/comments/p0qbey/is_the_gnome_conspiracy_quest_blatant_antisemetism/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
This game was a fairly big release for the RPG scene at the time, and its reputation has only grown since then. Yet, this aspect of the game is just never commented on in the mainstream. Either there was a stormfronter as a lead writer or it was an incredible mistake. The latter beggars belief. A cosmopolitan, financially successful and clannish race that others mistrust and persecute. Except, they're right to do so because there really is a gnomish conspiracy to ensure financial domination and physical security using the sexual violation and physical mutilation and slaughter of innocent shiksas. And no one thought this beared unfortunate resemblance to real life, historical anti semitism. This would be like if Sawyer made the blood libel real in Pentiment. Insanity.
Literally everyone I coerced to play Arcanum noticed this and was pretty amused by it, also I believe one or two devs were actual neo-nazis (based) given some portraits in the base game later on removed/altered.
believe it or not, but nobody read /misc/ in 2001. they're going for the victorian early industrialisation vibe and phrenology, antisemitism and everyday casual racism is very much a part of that.
I suppose we can only thank /misc/ and similar places for teaching the world about what antisemitism is, because I was like 12 years old and I sure as frick didn't notice back then. there's no way it was accidental.
If anti gnomish sentiment was just included as a kind of clumsy allegory for anti semitism, I wouldn't think anything of it. But again, in Arcanum the anti gnomish allegations actually end up being true. And not just in the sense that gnomes work together out of common interest, but they have an evil agenda and what amounts to "racial goals," i.e.their physical stature provokes a need for material security and a compliant race of brutes for protection. A race of golems, basically. They are incompatible, fundamentally, with a human society. The conspiracy is incredibly sophisticated. They allow tidbits to slip out and leak to half-mad weirdos in order to discredit people investigating the conspiracy and the questline ends with a gnome gaslighting you and making it clear you are powerless. It is a curious inclusion is all I'm saying. If it was a neo-nazi who wrote this thing, then it's a very well done and scary exposition of his world view. If it wasn't, then I'm wondering what the hell he was thinking.
for me it's kinda like how Deus Ex has all these boomer ass conspiracy theories in it. depiction does not equal endorsement, at least it didn't back then.
They were not an endorsement, they were an approval of what should be done. That there is only one solution to the gnomish question.
Right, I know that. There are plenty of stories that depict racism or bigotry and don't feel the need to go out of the way to condemn it or punish characters for being bigoted. I'm not mistaking that for endorsement. Arcanum is notable in that the gnome quest seems to prove that bigotry against gnomes is actually rational and that a thorough investigation of the truth reveals all the worst allegations to be true. It would be like if I wrote a story set in an allegory for the antebellum south and included a planter class and some kind of allegorical black people race. But I then reveal that the black people race are genuinely happiest in servitude and not responsible enough to live as free people. It would be fair to ask why I included that, right? That goes a bit beyond just depicting the setting. I suppose that I could do it as a kind of Starship Troopers thing, where I'm satirizing the kind of story that a southern racist would write, but I didn't detect that in Arcanum.
I'm not accusing the Arcanum team of shit, I'm just really curious what they meant by that. Unfortunately, the lead writer is some guy named "R.G. Mortimer" who seems to have vanished into smoke after Arcanum came out, so I have no idea what he's all about.
Do they have to "mean anything by that"? can't we just have some victorian fun and measure some skulls and complain about gnomes or Black folk or whoever? that's what I'm objecting to. the notion that there must be some ulterior motive.
The question I think, is whether such a story can be neutral at all. Whatever the author's intent might have been. If he accidentally wrote a story that happens to perfectly align with like, The Turner Diaries, then that is a hell of a mistake. I just want to know more about that the author was thinking. Because the way the gnomes are written now, if the author was outed as a stormgay it wouldn't surprise me even a little.
>Can't we just have some victorian fun?
I think the issue here, is that you can write a story where phrenology and race science are real, respected, and not challenged by the narrative, and also not have it be 100% confirmed. Indeed, it wouldn't adequately portray the Victorian era without some kind anti semitism allegory. But why was every anti semitic allegation proven to be true? The decision to do so here was an aesthetic choice and I'm just not sure what the purpose of it was. You can say it has no meaning, but why include it at all? Clearly, a lot of anti semites are getting the message loud and clear. Was that intended? It just makes me wonder.
Was the conspiracy quest not interesting and engaging?
Yeah of course, I am just curious about the conclusion of the quest. A conspiracy about the creation of half ogres that happens to be true, ok, that's fine. It's just that when we consider what the gnomes are an allegory for, and the nature of this conspiracy, it starts to seem dicey. The game is all about subverting prophecies and easy narratives, so why is this particular one true?
Anyway, I've been doing some research and no developer seems to have ever commented on this quest. So I guess unless I can get Tim Cain on the horn and ask him I'll never know.
I don't think it was all a coincidence.
How did they get away with that?
The propaganda poster epsecially is super obvious
Most of that could easily be coincidental. There are confederate general portraits but also union generals, indicating that they're just going for that bushy faced, 19th century look. The Arcanum symbol really doesn't overly resemble a swastika and it's such a basic symbol that it's easy to stumble on. Same thing with the circular cross. I find the idea that it's a tribute to some intermediary nazi logo to be a stretch too. The Japanese communist party also incorporates a circular gear in its logo. It's a very intuitive symbol to represent industry and technology.
Derek's potential inclusion is a little odd though. "On the Orcish question" is a bit of dark humor. And the thing that really sticks out is the fricking gnome quest. That alone makes everything else seem more suspicious. Don Throgg'd rhetoric is more like an early union activist/communist type. But why is he an ubermensch lol. The molochean hand symbol is the star of David too. When you add all this up it really does seem suspicious. The idea that someone on the team was a Nazi and snuck in a lot of this shit starts to seem believable. But 2001 was also just a more innocent, less politically charged time. So the chance that it's all a coincidence isn't totally unbelievable either.
Oh frick off you insufferable c**t. Seriously, just have a nice day.
Rude
>Unfortunately, the lead writer is some guy named "R.G. Mortimer" who seems to have vanished into smoke after Arcanum came out, so I have no idea what he's all about.
Edward R.G. Mortimer was a writer for a tabletop games publisher called Judge's Guild. He wrote several stories and supplements for them.
Mortimer did almost no writing on the game pic related, there is really no credited writer on the game
What's a good build for a first run considering I'm very stupid and inept?
high str
low int
half ogre
>playing as a rape baby
You can't go wrong with high charisma and intelligence and Persuasion. Charletan's Protege background.
Dip Summoning for Ogres if you want to trivialise combat.
Wear a smoking Jacket.
Spend a fate point to pickpocket the Ring of Charisma from a gnome in Tarant.
Six plus followers and the dog, and lots of simultaneous summons.
Time Magic is an excellent addition if you're already raising Willpower and investing in spells. Tempus Fugit is an investment but is a huge force multiplier if you are going to have a ton of minions.
That sounds pretty cool, thanks anon.
Especially having high charisma seems like it would be nice in this game.
I did that in my first playthough
The father of my character was just really, really into Snu Snu.
Do female ogres even exist in arcanum?
Yes, like female dwarfs, halflings, gnomes etc. However the developer didn't bother to create models for them so they came up with excuses why you never see them.
There is a model for female halflings which is used by some of the gypsies, but it's probably not fully animated.