>No this doesn’t make sense they’re not acting 100% logical they won’t agree with each other about what to DOOOO
Deadfire filtered the Cinema Sins crowd
>No this doesnt make sense theyre not acting 100% logical they wont agree with each other about what to DOOOO
It filtered the everyone crowd.
If filtered everyone so hard that no one bought it.
Launch sales sure. Current sales say otherwise.
And its reviews, across platforms, are extremely good. Better than, e.g., Pathfinder. (Schizo shrieking in 3... 2...)
pathfinder games just filtered everyone, hence the reviews
True. Most people get filtered hard by broken, unfinished games. Just look at how many people were "filtered" by Cyberpunk 2077.
4 year total sales at 70% discount, sure. At least tehy did not package it with controllers, I guess
This thread already has the schizos howling. OP you absolute mad lad.
Yeah, the screeching autist from the other thread is gonna be here in no time at all.
It makes sense that they don't agree, because they're neither perfectly rational, nor are they superintelligent. They have no omnipotence, no omniscience, and are very strictly bounded in time and space. They're like bickering Greek deities, more than anything, but they aren't as "natural" or animalistic. The other anon who compared them to Mass Effect's Reapers was mostly correct -- the gods in PoE are post-human hiveminds who have taken it upon themselves to "oversee" what is left of humanity. And they've come to disagreements as to how to go about that.
The impression you get from conversations you had in PoE 1 (before endgame segment, Ondra in White March) and in PoE2 is very different.
Even if you try to say 'different stakes, different issues', bickering petulant children is not what many expected.
In PoE1 you never spoke with a council of the gods. (There are segments at the endgame where you speak with Magran, Abydon, and Galawain at the same time -- but all of those gods are in agreement.) In PoE2, you're almost exclusively speaking to councils of the gods, and they don't agree between themselves on what they should do -- and, moreover, they don't really value your advice.
>The impression you get from conversations you had in PoE 1 (before endgame segment, Ondra in White March) and in PoE2 is very different.
The impression I personally got from the conversation was that the Gods aren't as infallible as they present themselves to be. The fact that you can practically scold and shame Ondra in to helping you shows that. And her entire story about killing Abydon by accident.
I always thought of them as being rather simplistic computer programs entirely beholden to their set parameters and to the mechanics of the universe.
This. The whole meta-plot is that Eothas became sentient and the fallout
As said in the other thread I think Eothas is unlike the other shitheads, actually good guy and while awaking he understood immediately how humanity is in a sacrificial materialist soul hell.
He wants to become a myth that kill myth like a Christ figure. So humans can finally be free.
It's sideways a bit like doctor Manhattan.
>He wants to become a myth that kill myth like a Christ figure
He was pretty much already a Christ figure in lore, consider what he's the God of.
Yes but made unconsciously so, and with ulterior motives.
Honestly one of the aspects I love more in this mess. Josh has a clear understand of religious bullshit and how it moves people. The very first dungeon of Eothas has echoes of Christian persecution.
It's as if other dying and reborn Gods in real life pantheons like Dyonisus or Baldr understood as well what they themselves meant and tried to stop the fricking scapegoating sacrificial game.
All the other "gods" in eora deserve nothing but scorn.
>All the other "gods" in eora deserve nothing but scorn.
Hylea and Abydon are at least somewhat ethical and decent. Pledging to Hylea is the only possible "good" move in PoE1. And, next to Eothas, Abydon is quite reasonable about human progress and potential.
Wael, Berath, Skaen, Woedica, Magran, and Ondra are all mindbogglingly evil.
>Berath
But she isn't. If anything, she's one of the more reasonable gods next to Abydon and Hylea. Also, I love how you didn't even mention Rymrgand.
Rymrgand isn't any more evil than the Second Law of Thermodynamics. He's just edgy and cryptic. More than the other gods, he's the personification of a natural rule. All the guy wants is a universe in perfect thermal equilibrium. This is not evil; it's inevitable, and it's ethically neutral.
What Rymrgand might know, but most people do not, is that the Second Law is a statistical rather than an absolute law. Even in a universe at thermal equilibrium, there will be local fluctuations that result in the formation of complex structures and the potential for work. What's more, any universe such as ours will basically repeat itself after a sufficiently long duration of time, thanks to what is known as the Poincare Recurrence. (It takes an almost unimaginably long period of time before this will happen, but time itself is basically meaningless in a universe at thermal equilibrium.)
t. physicist.
What scary about this is that roger penrose CCC is confirming this.
Maybe eternal return was right to drive old Friedrich insane.
Yeah, see also from Leonard Susskind:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-th/0208013.pdf
It is extremely troubling -- or comforting, as the case may be. Ultimately, what it means is that time isn't "independent" on vast scales. After a very long period of time, every finite configuration will repeat. As the paper says in one of its bottom lines, "at any finite time, an infinite number of Poincare recurrences have already occurred."
The rest of Susskind's paper wrestles with -- has a very hard time coming to terms with -- the fact that conventional probabilities are dissolved in the face of infinity. At infinity, unlikely things -- "statistically miraculous" things -- occur with probability = 100%. At infinity, there's no "most probable" position in space or time, so the Copernican Principle (i.e. that we should consider ourselves to be statistically probable "normal" observers of the universe,) is out the window.
Also: In every possible world, the schizo who tries his best to frick up these threads is an annoying piece of shit.
Maybe until he moves on and you forget about him.
You are saying the natural phenomenon of entropy is not immoral because it simply is. And therefore
Rymrgand is not immoral because under the thermal model there is no morality and he simply supports the inevitable. This entails you are contending we should not morally condem him because, in effect, he denies morality. But we accept the concept of moral judgements or you would not began your description with a thesis of moral judgement. This presupposes we believe in morality. And Rymrgand opposes all morality. Unless we ascribe to vulgar relativism, an opponent of a moral universe is an opponent of moral good. He is evil incarnate. The end of all good. Perhaps defeat is inevitable but our moral framework means our lot is not to win or lose but to fight. I don't reject physics but forming one's world view primarily around empirically unverifiable hypothesis in the material sciences comes at risk of myopia.
Tl:dr, Rage against the dying of the light, for ignorance is bliss when tis folly to be wise.
The problem with this view is that -- unlike most of the other gods, many of whom are downright psychopathic and/or have you murder people on their behalf -- Rymrgand is very hands-off. His involvement in the world is minimal. He seems evil, at a glance, but upon deeper reflection he's nothing more than the embodiment of an ethically neutral abstract principle.
He doesn't oppose morality. He basically opposes HEAT -- so he opposes anything that can happen in the world, good or evil. In other words, he is against evil as much as he is against good. If you take the Schopenhauerian or Buddhist view that existence itself is a form of suffering because, to simplify things a bit, evil outweighs good (and I dare say this has become a mainstream philosophical position,) Rymrgand is the "good" god of Nirvana and final peace. This is why he has worshippers.
In any case, even if you're a philosophical optimist, Rymrgand is a very abstract and hands-off sort of neutral chaos god. Don't be fooled by his edgy reputation and foreboding voice.
Wael, on the other hand, seems like an interesting guy, but he's evil to his very core. He's a sort of devil made solely to vex and confuse humanity.
...
...See, and this is why Deadfire is a good game. There's no way to have this sort of discussion about the Forgotten Realms or (lol) the Pathfinder setting.
>this is why poe is good
True dat. They borrowed dnd content but made it internally consistent enough to be worth discussion
I agree that he opposes good as much as he opposes evil. And in an Eastern framework may be good (especially when we remember what happens when you let those pale elfs go into that portal and become nothing and everything - it was horrifying only because of my instinctive attachment to my ego but the description was one of bliss). But working against heat means working against our moral framework. And that still makes him evil. Banal and not motivated by malice, sure. But he makes virtue ethics impossible and engages in advancing immorality under a kantian framework. Utilitarians may forgive him tho but utilitarianism is better for economics than morality imo.
>wael is Descartes demon
Now that is a fricking cool idea I had never thought of. He is the deceiver frick that guy
I think that utilitarians who also happen to be philosophical pessimists should either worship or be quite sympathetic towards Rymrgand. The pale elves seem to meet that description, and they certainly weren't evil devil-worshippers. (lol at Pathfinder with Baphomet cultists literally everywhere! What the frick was up with that?)
Yeah that is another positive part of the game. You don't have like half the npcs actively involved in cults that seek to destroy civilization, yet failing to do so while also being ignored. There's always a good way to justify it. And while I'd argue utilitarianism is a disaster because it provided a way for evil ideologies to co-opt moral philosophy via the degenerated utilitarian argument of vulgar relativism, I certainly wouldn't kill those pale elves. They're basically just following the old vedic path and seek the bliss of oblivion. If heat death reliably meant that lowering the barriers of the ego would only let in time dilation and bliss, I'd probably be for it. But as anyone who has done so in a limited fashion can tell you, without those barriers bad thoughts can become all consuming too.
They need to explore him more cause he kinda feels out of place. Like an old God that hangs out with the new. But that contradicts lore so idk. Also wish we had more info on woedica/giving her the souls mattered. On the one hand, where even the reign of berath brought progress (mind numbing slow and uninspired as it was) woedica would probably prefer stagnation. But law justice and rightful government all underpin just societies. I wonder how she was before the burning. Maybe she got purged/reduced like abydon in the beginning
Hylea is still a b***h happy to frick with mortals for her own plans, just like the rest of them. Just see what happens if you bring Pallegina to talk to her
What happens? She always struck me as the equivalent of a useful idiot tier lefty type. She is well intentioned and wants a utopia but would also be the type of environmentalist who tries to shut down nuclear plants in favor of solar with the irl consequences being another 50 years of burning fossils. She thinks she is helping and will justify her actions but the end result is fricked up things like godlike
>being this much of a directionbrain
Hylea's brilliant strategy for the hollowborn crisis was to send the souls back to be children. Souns nice but it has been years since these empty children were born. How do you think that merciful plan went down? For every lunatic who kept their kid chained up in their basement countless more had killed them. I'm not sure which parent I'd rather be in such a fricked up situation. The damage was already done it cannot be reversed. To be fair even berath fricks this up thinking that returning to the wheel is balanced but that doesn't address dyrwoods soul deficiency and is unbalanced. Only galawain (as out of character as it was) had a morally good solution.
>Christ figure
>Eothas
Explain.
homie what? He's literally the god of redemption, rebirth, and dawn. I can't tell if you don't know basic poe lore or irl lore. The motherfricker is cleaving a path through hell and removing original sin. He martyrs himself in the first game so that children may be free of hollowborn/original sin plot by evil saturn God woedica. There's countless little details I could go on about
Not to mention he martyrs himself again in PoE2 to rid the world of the other Gods' influence.
I just wanted to hear your explanation, the width of your perspective. A real Christ figure wouldn't kill thousands of people and shrug, I'm sure you realize that.
Europe became Christian because God willed it. When Christ said to turn the other cheek it was because the romsns differentiated between open and back handed slaps - with one being a contemptuous b***h slap and the other for one you would consider a peer level rival. Christianity began as the minority, but over the process of becoming the majority, tactics changed. Lots of blood. Europe became Christian because it was the will of God. But it was not painless.
I want you to quote the specific passage from the Bible where Christ says murder in any form is okay.
>because the romsns differentiated
Good thing that neither Jesus nor 99% of other people in the New Testament are not Romans.
>Good thing that neither Jesus nor 99% of other people in the New Testament are not Romans.
Anon, 100% of the people in the Bible are Roman. Not by ethnicity, but by the fact they live in the Roman Empire.
in the NT*
Saying Jesus wasnt Roman is like saying Hawaiians aren't American
Ever heard of persecutions?
Jesus was not Roman by the opinion of Romans themselves - while Judea was a province at the time, the vast majority of it's population was not recognized as citizens by the state, without even touching the ethic and cultural parts of identity.
You could be literally born in Rome, to an Italic mother, and speak nothing but Latin your whole life, and still not be Roman - like if you were born a slave.
.
Yet people with no historical perspective always fail to see that the entire middles east had already been hellenized for ages and it changed middle eastern religions.
You saw Jasons wandering around everywhere which people would wrongly call israelites.
And? We weren't referring to citizenship. Living in the Empire meant you lived under Roman law and had Roman cultural norms pushed on you. Yes the provinces kept their own culture to an extent, but the context of "turn the other cheek" was in response to authority. That authority would have been Roman.
poe sisters my lore might not be up-to-date but Eothas did not martyr himself in the first game to get rid of the hollowborn crisis.
He was doing it to free mortals from the gods
So please give a few more details
you're probably going to have to make a new thread to get an answer this one reached bump limit
I think they meant that he martyred himself during the Saints War in an attempt to expose the Gods. That was the first time, and then he does it again in PoE2.
He launched the saints War in order to stop woedica's hollowborn plot. The plot came before the war. Magran was complicit, you get to have a big revelation of this with durrance
i should replay poe1 because i did not catch any of this
so maxing speech with durance is really necessary
Nobody even played this game to get to whatever part you're referencing. The people you are making up in your head to be mad at don't even have an interest in crpgs.
Gods disagreeing and being fricktards is fine - they disagreed and and were fricktards in PoE1 as well.
The problems are:
1. They literally do nothing whatsoever, despite the stakes being extremely high, and them being heavily involved in worldly affairs acting as one of the pillars (heh) of the setting.
2. The main plot is wrapped around them doing nothing and acting like fricktards - so every time we have to go to Big Place to do Big Shit, it's all initiated by these c**ts being useless c**ts.
3. The player is forced to sit though regular sessions of them bickering and doing nothing, and every time it's treated like big important huge shit that we must pay attention to, despite it being a bunch of annoying c**ts wasting everyone's time.
It's like if the main plot of an RPG was built on a Kafka story where the protagonist has to sit through regular useless office meetings between a bunch of moronic self-absorbed bureaucrats, but it's not tragicomedy - it's supposed to be dramatic adventure story.
>"The gods are SUPPOSED to be useless if absurdly powerful morons!"
But the game doesn't treat them like a party of useless morons (while it totally could - that's exactly how the Circle of Archmagi is portrayed), and even if it did - well good job, now your epic dramatic subtle emotional kino deep writing adventure is built entirely on a Dunce Committee bossing you around.
mucho texto
>3. The player is forced to sit though regular sessions of them bickering and doing nothing, and every time it's treated like big important huge shit that we must pay attention to, despite it being a bunch of annoying c**ts wasting everyone's time.
I don't think it's fair to say that they did nothing. They exploded a volcano on Eothas and hit him with a few giant tsunamis. Didn't work. They came to the conclusion, which is very likely the correct conclusion, that anything else they might do to stop him would do more harm than good -- i.e. would irreversibly harm the world.
I mean, they can't really do anything without physical bodies, so they rely on agents in the mortal realm to do their dirty work.
They actions of the gods themselves are very blunt tools. Hammer rather than scalpel. They can destroy the world, but they can't do any dirty work up close.
>so they rely on agents in the mortal realm to do their dirty work.
Except not really, because (you) the player is their big agents, and they effectively don't give you shit to deal with the situation.
>- Hey guys, so Eothas is probably going to FRICKING END US ALL, what are we going to do about it?
>- Well he's a ginormous animated statue made of adra that straight up walks through oceans, maybe if I throw a tsunami at him he can... eh... I dunno... drown? Everyone drowns right?
>- Oh wait guys I've an idea - there's this here mortal shmuk I know from that whole Thaos business who's by now like a continent away from Eothas, but he can talk to souls - so how about we use him to deal with the whole Eothas situation?
>- How tho?
>- We tell him to deal with it, so obviously he does.
>- Woah.
I enjoyed Deadfire overall, some of the companions and LOTS of quests were great, and combat is quite fun - but the main quest is straight dogshit.
>and they effectively don't give you shit to deal with the situation.
What are they suppose to give you?
Also, the Gods clearly tell you to follow Eothas and find out about his plan. Once you find out, they tell you to convince Eothas to stop.
>What are they suppose to give you?
In PoE I they straight up allow Watcher to levitate (in order to reach Sun-in-Shadow). Something like that would already be nice.
No need to mention how Eothas himself made Waidwen into an X-Man, or how Magran gave Durance the knowledge for building an anti-god nuclear bomb.
Waidwen's body was blown up and Magran killed all the other priests to hide this knowledge. I don't think she would unhide her secrets just to stop Eothas
And the watcher is in a human body so I think he could be easily killed by Eothas no matter the superpowers the gods give him
But I felt the main story was weak too but the ending is underappreciated. Eothas believes in humans, believes in you, and you can convience him to give the humans power to live without the gods or take away this hope and send them back to the gods.
/thread
Not really
>1. They literally do nothing whatsoever, despite the stakes being extremely high, and them being heavily involved in worldly affairs acting as one of the pillars (heh) of the setting.
I mean they already couldn't, everything that happened in the first game was due to mortal agents. I mean really, the whole theme of these games is the mortal races discovering that they no longer need the gods and likely never did.
I agree with you.
I like to hate it cause I could actually see an amazing crpg for the ages, instead its sabotaged by modern obsidian.
>I could actually see an amazing crpg for the ages
But that's what it pretty much is
Delusional.
You need to read more Greek mythology and then imagine if Zeus had not seized his father's throne and the gods ruled as a council.
But that's the thing, the Gods WEREN'T a council. That's not interesting.
You know what the Gods in PoE are? A bunch of politicians. And I mean politicians in a country that sits back and waits for the US, China, or Russia to turn around and smack them with their dicks. The Gods in PoE are AUSTRALIAN Politicians. Fricking useless, fricking boring. Nobody wants to play Australian Politics; The Game. Nobody wants to spend real money on it. Not even IRL.
You missed the first game entirely, didn't you?
The primary difference in behavior between the Olympian Gods and the gods of PoE is this: The Olympian Gods have a king. Zeus is quite literally more powerful than all the rest of them combined. The others bicker ceaselessly, but when Zeus tells them to get into line, they have no choice.
In PoE, Woedica was queen of the gods in early times, but was cast down, so now the gods are left to their own devices, and have, over the millennia, become twisted caricatures of their "portfolios." Woedica, too, was left twisted by her defenestration.
I played the first game motherfricker, I know they're just horrific mental amalgamates given to the world because the society that made them found out they had no gods and all their blood and death and holy wars were fricking pointless. I know they fricked each other around like the fishc**t basically brainwashing Mr Roboto into forgetting who he was after he took a hot load to the face, I fricking played it you vapid homosexual.
I'm saying it's fricking boring. Interesting shit happening millenia ago doesn't matter. Doesn't matter how exciting the lives were of a bunch of old frickers in the nursing home back in their youth when the only time I'm interacting with them is when they're dementia riddled and pissing and shidding and farding non stop. Ooh Stanley Burkenson could play a mean guitar and used to bootleg? Wow, that would have been fun to see, but right now he doesn't know where he is and he's got mushy peas dribbling down his fricking chin. Old Stanley aint as fricking entertaining as Young Stanley.
So frick you.
Oh boy, it's the schizo again... take your meds, please.
Tell you what, give them to me in the form of an interesting pantheon and I'll take as many as you got.
You're absolutely correct, don't mind the brainwashed zoomer.
The PoE pantheon is 100x more interesting and less cringe than the FR or Pathfinder pantheons, and that's an objective fact. Also, stop samegayging, schizo.
Are you the one who calls everyone schizo here and argues with everyone? Get help.
>if you hate the PoE pantheon you like FR or Pathfinder pantheons instead
What if I think they're all shit, but I'm focusing on the PoE pantheon because this is A FRICKING POE THREAD YOU TRIPLEBlack person troonySAURUS
This is a demagogue trick
PoE pantheon doesn't exist in a vacuum, it exists among both real world peoples pantheons and pantheons in other fictional worlds. It's totally legit to compare PoE gods to other gods from other games
You don't know what "legit" means. You write like a crappy student.
>hurr durr people who disagree with me no write good
You use this insult so much that I'm able to recognize your posting across multiple threads.
Don't pay him any mind. He has nothing better to do than derail the conversation by flaunting how supposedly smart he is.
You don't know words or how to use them. And here we communicate with words. The only possible outcome is shit.
But I'm using words right now.
that's it? that's all you could come up with?
a critic of my writing style on a laosian wife-sharing web-site?
truly the lesser of the two PoE-obsessed shizos on this board
It's really not, it's somehow even worse. The problem is exacerbated by the fact you've a direct line to them, forced to listen to those vapid, pathetic dumb-dumbs bickering.
You've either never played any of these games, or you are moronic. When was the last time anybody ever had a serious discussion about the 20IQ Pathfinder pantheon?
Did you even play WotR? Iomedae and the demon lords manage to seem 1000x more moronic than anything in PoE, in your direct interactions with them. They're aggressively stupid.
It's not only that they're bickering, it's also that they contribute nothing to storytelling. It's just waste of time.
The gods quite literally drive the plot.
Myes... the plot of a guy walking across the sea. Or more like a lake.
It’s always the same shit. PoE invented nothing, to be fair, it didn’t even try. It’s just a huge ‘remember this thing?’
This is correct. The biggest problem with dnd is that the gods are literally just people who are very powerful. There's no reason to worship them anymore than you would a king. Clerics are as cringe as orientals worshipping their leaders. Meanwhile, poe gods are abstract concepts given form. I can worship redemption or struggle as concepts given form. But dnd gives no reason for faith beyond power
D&D gods were quick things made with glue and gum just to represent character classes. Or specific races.
Some were cool, some were shit, all were clearly not inspired by actual indo european gods like Glorantha makes an attempt.
I honestly tons of times with randos in D&D I just used my knowledge of Olympians while changing their names and using their less well know aspects and everybody thought I was cool as frick.
No one knew I just using Hecate or Quirinus.
DND isn't an unified setting. And even then, the gods in PoE act exactly like what you're railing against. They give no reason for faith beyond power, since only clerics and paladins get to enjoy their god juice.
More importantly, PoE's gods are more pathetic than the gods of any official D&D setting or fantasy setting than I can think of. First of all, they're computers created by some stupid tribals, and their godkin "children" are just their batteries. Second of all, they act and talk like complete idiots. They don't give answers. They don't help anyone. Their concepts predate them and they exist just to self-perpetuate. They just bicker with one another. As big of dickheads as they were in, say, Dragonlance, at least the gods also attempted to help ordinary humans, and guide heroes to defeat the forces of evil. And third, worshiping them is Idolatry. The reason monotheistic religions became the most widespread in the world is because intelligent societies realized that worshiping phenomena, or ideas, was wrong, and spiritually shallow, and that there is nothing worth worshiping except the creator of everything.
Profoundly bad take.
Anon I must have said a thousand times this already there is shit I hate about poe.
The gods are fricking FINE. The world clearly has other magical and maybe even actual gods or single god.
Maybe thinking of these Engwithan things as major saints from medieval history.
I dislike D&D adn Pathfinder especially more for the fact anyone can become a God.
I find PoE's gods to be insultingly bad, to be quite honest. Which is a big drawback because they're the core of the story of both games. I was not just disappointed in them, I was actively annoyed. They are not fine at all. It's the disparity between how they are treated in-game and how they actually act and talk. It would be funny if it were a comedy, but it's just Last Jedi levels of awkward "subversion lol!!" bullshit. I don't give a shit about how you feel about it in conjunction with DND or Pathfinder, I just think they were an already annoying and trite concept that was made worse by poor writing.
Its not that bad, they are supposed to be shit. Except Eothas.
There is nothing saying D&D settings NEED to have a real pantheon. There are other mysteries in the setting.
I do agree they shoudl have been more in the background and it shoudl not have been that obvious they are fake. But its fine by me.
its a world on the cusp of not giving a shit about them anyway. Their slave driver grip is failing everyday.
I know maybe you are hardwired for Gods to be more classical goodneutralevil, but the subversion is that subversive. Its just a story decision by the devs.
Both games have worse problems then the Gods.
>they are supposed to be shit
Man.
In the end, I guess everything is supposed to be shit in PoE. If you don't enjoy it, you missed the point, but if you enjoy it, you also missed the point, cause you're not supposed to enjoy it. I'll just never bother with this franchise ever again instead.
>only clerics and paladins get to enjoy their god juice
That's not how PoE works at all. Powers come from an individual's soul, not from servitude to deities. Paladins aren't even religious in the setting, they're just mercenaries with strict codes of conduct.
At this point, I'm convinced that this "schizo" actually works for Owlcat. Nobody could possibly be this stupid and obtuse.
The gods in PoE represent moral-ethical frameworks, midwit.
Woedica: Legalism (in the Ancient Chinese sense)
Rymrgand: Ego death (philosophical pessimism/lust for annihilation, see also Schopenhauer, Cioran, Ligotti, etc.)
Galawain: Darwinism (social- and otherwise.)
Skaen: Social justice and redistributive justice
etc.
The gods don't just embody concepts, they embody different philosophical outlooks.
Exactly. This is what I mean by concepts given form. They are foci for what we believe to be good in the world. I don't care if they are computer programs, Eothas is worthy of my worship because he facilitates faith. And while faith alone does not move mountains, men with faith do.
>Skaen: Social justice and redistributive justice
lol
Skaen doesn't represent any functional philosophy, he's just the ever-looming threat of an uprising of the meek, keeping kings in check
Skaen is one of the most insidious creations of Engwithans since he actively keeps peasants from organising and revolting against the lords because his dogma teaches the downtrodden to keep quiet and mutilate themselves in the hope he intervenes.
true, this is why in both games he's working with woedica
What about Hylea, Wael, Ondra and Berath, tho?
And this would make Abydon and Magran kinda share Progressivism between them.
Hylea is basically the embodiment of short-sighted pathological altruism. Every decision you can align with her on sounds superficially good but is actually horrific. Giving the souls back to the hollowborn for example. You're essentially just shoving newborn souls into the wichts who are running around naked in the wilderness - they're all just going to die horribly.
Hylea: Humanism.
We've already been over Wael. He definitely represents the obscurantist trend in philosophy. (Heidegger, Lacan, Derrida.) He's also reminiscent of the old mystery cults of Greece, e.g. the Eleusinian Mysteries. But, most of all, he's the closest thing the game has to an actual devil, because his work consists largely of deliberately deceiving and confusing mankind.
Ondra: Philosophical nihilism. "Nothing matters, cast it aside." And have you seen what she does to her worshippers?
Berath represents the cycle itself as a concept. This is why she, of all gods, is most concerned with what Eothas is doing.
Imagine the gods (or rather, computer glitches) in your game being so poor that you have to create a complete headcanon for them. This isn't true, this is all made-up nonsense to cover the fact there's no depth in the game's lore.
This is what I thought. Many immoral people in this thread spread false information about every other game and company. Not that they'd speak the truth about PoE either.
And yet, here you are, providing no counter arguments.
The queen is based on Kantian transcendential philosophy with some elements of Spartian war culture. If you find this nonsensical you have to write a detailed essay why this is not true.
As usual, you're a complete idiot.
Seriously, is Owlcat paying you to shit up these threads with your nonsense?
I doubt it. He probably does it for free.
Hard to believe somebody could be so (a) annoying, (b) persistent, (c) 50-80 IQ, and still (d) deliberately obtuse.
At this point, it's almost more reasonable to believe that he's not a "real person." That he's shitposting to further an agenda.
You underestimate what one person can do with a lot of free time on their hands. Boredom is a hell of a drug.
Here are you, providing zero counter arguments. Imagine being so uneducated and stupid that you'd even compare a video game made for children, PoE, to complex works of continental philosophy such as Schopenhauer's. You are what happens when education system utterly fails. Zero sense what is appropriate and what is not.
Zero counter arguments to an explicit troll comment? Why would anybody waste their time trying to debate anything with you?
Schopenhauer is not that complicated, either. You're just severely moronic.
The reason it seems like a troll comment to you is because it's based and mimicing your own absolutely idiotic post, sharing its credibility. That is exactly what you seem like to people with common sense. Yet you expect people to "provide arguments" against your own troll posts. A simple statement how stupid you are suffices.
> t. never played the game, so doesn't understand any references.
> Screeches autistically.
There's nothing similar to Schopenhauer's theory of will in PoE. Absolutely nothing. You just invent things, like your imaginary friend.
You absolute moron, Schopenhauer wrote about much more than his theory of will. There's a reason he's called a "pessimist," and it's because of writings like these:
https://www.atlasofplaces.com/essays/on-the-sufferings-of-the-world/
Philosophical pessimism has since been expanded by other philosophers. Of course, you would know nothing about this.
Alright, you are a self-educated moron. Schopenhauer's pessimism is analytically linked to his concepts of Will and reason. You don't have Schopenhauerian pessimism without Schopenhauerian understanding of "Will." If you start talking about his pessimism, you are talking about precisely that - unless you are a pretentious idiot, like you are. This is what pretentiousness means, when one pretends to understand things he clearly does not. Calling out this stupidit is not pretentiousness. This is common sense as well.
Pessimism is an old Greek ideal. You don't have to start bringing up names and completely unrelated technical words to make sense of PoE. Just call what it is, a badly written game. Or just say "pessimistic." Don't say "Schopenhauer," fricking idiot.
idea* not ideal.
Midwit confirmed. Read the essay again, which was written by Schopenhauer, and see how much importance he ascribes therein to his concept of the will.
See, this is your problem. You don't play the game, so you don't know what it says. You don't read Schopenhauer, so you have no idea what he's saying or what it means.
You're just a moron who screeches autistically and accuses other people of being stupid, when you've shown no insight and no understanding of anything at all.
NB: "Pessimism" for the Ancient Greeks meant something quite different and distinct from modern philosophical pessimism.
Ever read the World as Will and Representation? His actual main work where everything I said is carefully explained. Or did you just open that random essay on the internet just now and state "yes, this is it, this is Schopenhauer's idea of pessimism."
You are talking to someone who knows. And I can tell you you don't. This makes you pretentious and extremely ignorant person. Schopenhauer's pessimism is a technical conceptual construction directly linked to the key concept of his philosophy, the "Will." You are a fraud, a fake.
> The author himself doesn't know what he's talking about.
> Don't read primary sources.
> Only I know the truth.
Do you see how moronic you seem?
Go back and read the essay. I know that reading is hard for you.
For you, this is all a show. Your strategy would work if I actually was a clueless as you, but I'm not. I know the truth. I can easily prove it. Anybody not familiar with the subject can go to, say, Wikipedia and see what it says about pessimism there. In fact, let's see:
>Arthur Schopenhauer's pessimism comes from his elevating of Will above reason as the mainspring of human thought and behavior.
There. Then, in the books where this whole construction of "Will" and how everything works in relation to it is built, this idea is analyzed further. That is pessimism related to Schopenhauer. You are a pretentious joke.
LOL. Wikipedia. Figures.
Now go back again and read the actual primary source. See what the man himself has to say. He wrote that essay to stand on its own merits.
Anon, see, this is your problem. You don't play the games you talk about, and you don't read the books you talk about. You get your information from YouTube and Wikipedia, and you make up the rest.
Your random essay is not the primary source, the World as Will and Representation is,. Just like Kant's random essays he wrote for non-philosophers while he was lecturing in East Prussia tell nothing about his actual theoretical philosophy. Also why Descartes' letters often contradict with his actual academic works, because the academic works is where he wrote the technical theories. The whole idea that you base your view on a single source is utterly stupid either way. You have to consider all the sources and build the understanding based on the whole. That is why you won't find a reliable site that agrees with you.
Basically, I write to speak the truth, you write because you are hurt. And you don't realize that people can see through your bullshit, because you expect that other people are as pathetic as you. Sad.
> Schopenhauer's own words are not a primary source.
moron confirmed.
You realize that he wrote that essay -- which was published in Parerga and Paralipomena -- after WWR, right? So it's the culmination and distillation of his thought on the matter, and not a "random essay." Besides, it doesn't contradict whatever he wrote earlier, but rather compliments and refines it.
Despite your protestations, you don't understand the first thing about any of this.
I suppose it's not the sort of thing you can find on Wikipedia.
There's not any possibility you can convince me you understand anything about Schopenhauer or philosophy. It's offensive you seem to think otherwise. Basically, what happened with you is that you saw the words "Schopenhauer" and "pessimism" next to each other and thought "wow, I should now start name-dropping Schopenhauer when I want to talk about pessimism, that'll sure make me seem smart! Finally I won't be mocked for my stupidity by everyone!" Not once did the thought that maybe the term might have a technical dimension cross your mind. Not once did you ask yourself, "hm, maybe there is a reason people talk about Schopenhauer's pessimism instead of pessimism in general. Maybe his pessimism is somehow related to the most important concept in his philosophical system?" Like, there's nothing at all, it's painfully obvious you are clueless.
Just fricking stop. You don't have to bring up Aristotle when someone has a virtue. You don't have to start talking about ancient Chinese legalism when someone has laws. You can just shut the frick up, that'd be a great favor to everyone. When you bring up random names for no reason, you just expose yourself.
You really don't understand these things at all.
Schopenhauer, in Parerga and Paralipomena, was among the first in the West to put forth a modern conception of philosophical pessimism -- and certainly the most popular of those who have -- which is why it's "Schopenhauerian" as distinct from other more ancient or practical uses of the word "pessimism." It's really that simple, and it's all laid out in the man's own words, which I'm assuming you still haven't read. (Or, finding nothing to support your inane points, are ignoring.)
Now go back to Wikipedia and Reddit.
Also, to settle this: I know in my heart you're full of shit. You must know in your heart you are ptetending to know about the subject. Have a nice day.
You have yet to put forth a coherent point. You have yet to read the man's own essay. You simply don't understand these things. You consider PoE a children's game, but you failed to understand it, as well. You possess a weak, shallow, and easily agitated mind.
Keep pretending. You are LARPer.
PS -- "Anybody not familiar with the subject" can read the primary source, which I linked to. There's really no reason to resort to Wikipedia.
You really don't understand what you're talking about, besides. It's all just squid ink to you.
You have not read a single page of theoretical philosophy in your life, let's get that fact right. Your teachers absolutely loathed you, I know exactly your kind of student type. The dumb one.
Anon, all games are made for children and teens. If you really wanted to discuss complex philosophies, you wouldn't be here on this bangladeshi kite testing forum, especially a place like /vrpg/ where 20 to 30 something year olds live out their self-insert hero fantasies.
I absolutely agree and that's why I wouldn't bring these names up in this context. I'm precisely mocking the ones who do, like you are.
I never brought them up though. I have no stakes in this discussion, I just find it funny how much of a pretentious person you are. This entire thread has been one big circus, with you as one of the major performers.
Hold on a moment. How is it pretentious to mock people who relate PoE to complex pihlosophies when you precisely agree it's deeply silly? There is nothing pretentious about calling out stupidity. You need to make sense here.
There's nothing wrong with discussing it here, especially as the PoE setting is interesting and lends itself to such discussion. That other homosexual just makes it his personal goal to ruin discussions with troll posts and ad hominem.
>That other homosexual just makes it his personal goal to ruin discussions
You should re-read this thread again, it's a trainwreck where every possible poe-related discussion ends with schizos informing everyone how much they hate pathfinder and how much it's worse than poe.
It's actually a mixture of schizos who hate both Pathfinder and PoE.
Now I remember the time when Larian schizo started endlessly shitting /vrpg/ with BG3 threads, and personally bumped each one of them.
>shitting /vrpg/ with BG3 threads
Was it the same guy who was Galeposting?
No, Galeposting happened long before it, and has actually funny and creative.
Ah, okay. I guess I got them mixed up.
>and was
>how much it's worse than poe.
This is true, though.
This. These fricking idiots jump on everyone and call them pretentious schizos when they don't agree the game has nothing to do with Schopenhauer. I'm just one of the people who shit on PoE. I see a lot of people getting annoyed with these fricks.
It usually starts with some lunatic with an imaginary degree that rants about PoE, then people call him out on his shit, he then flips out and the entire thread turns into a circus.
Nah, it starts with you losing your shit when anything negative is said about PoE. Then you immediately go off-topic and start talking about every other game and company while the thread has nothing to do with them, just because you feel hurt. If that wasn't enough for a circus, you proceed to fabricate claims about continental philosophers you have no clue about. How delusional and fragile must you be to reach that point?
>you proceed to fabricate claims about continental philosophers you have no clue about.
I never talked about philosophy though. I think you mistook me for
>headcannon
This is explicitly stated in the game. You either didn't play the first or got filtered by the reading which is functionally the same thing. I'm not sure whether to be annoyed or awed by the level of effort you put into shitposting about something you have no stake in.
They aren't gods tho. When the ancients could not find a real God. They rightly feared Godlessness would inevitably collapse civilization through a decadence spiral. But they wrongly believed animancy was fully developed and capable of revealing everything. So they panicked and created facsimiles of gods commonly worshipped to deceive everyone. They are not gods. They are less than even the demiurge. They are man made abominations claiming to be gods. We just refer to them as such because even people who know the truth in game refer to them as such as short hand. Even in the most favorable view of the ancients actions, they have been shown to be no longer fit for purpose. That is the point. The original problem animancy revealed is unsolved. Once man has that knowledge, they are still met with the realization the true God remains unknown but now we also have these bronze age tier freaks running around to deal with as well. The setting didn't create bad gods, it didn't create any gods. Just examples of man's hubris
>This is explicitly stated in the game. You either didn't play the first or got filtered by the reading which is functionally the same thing.
I'm pretty sure he simply didn't play it.
What's with Ganker and their zoomer boogeyman
Based and actually played the game pilled
Quite a few anons proved otherwise
Imagine samegayging this hard.
Imagine being such a newbie that you don’t know how to check for newbies.
No, I (
) actually enjoyed the game and would recommend it. But I do acknowledge that the main quest was a fricking mess and the game would be unironically better without it.
Frick the statue Eothas, make it so that one night we got shitfaced in our own keep, and next time we wake up aboard The Defiant, with The Steward dialogue giving you options for how we ended up here, including
>- You bandaged your eye and just kept downing rum, yelling "yarrr I'm the One-eye Watcher of Caed Nua, it's pirate life for me" and trying to mug everyone until we charted you a ship to Deadfire.
>- You tried to murder the new Duc in Defiance Bay, so we smuggled you out and jumped the first ship outta the country.
>- You kept interchangeably vomiting and crying and saying something about your long lost love out beyond the seas.
With every blackout adventure adding another optional quest (you can discover that one of the previous owners of Caed Nua was indeed a pirate/you clear your reputation from a political assassination attempt/the lost love is real - it's from one of your previous lives).
Doesn't sound like a completely bad idea, but no one that would fit PoE in my opinion.
>But the game doesn't treat them like a party of useless morons (while it totally could - that's exactly how the Circle of Archmagi is portrayed), and even if it did - well good job, now your epic dramatic subtle emotional kino deep writing adventure is built entirely on a Dunce Committee bossing you around.
This. Nothing makes me roll my eyees harder than seeing people go "THE GODS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE UNIMPRESSIVE AND LAME, THEY'RE FAKE!
Is it true that ghostheart ranger is the best class for POTD? The early game is pretty brutal
the sales show it filtered everyone
Can't wait for this thread to turn Into a complete shitshow like the last one.
It was super comfy until one fricking lunatic shitted it up.
This anon was right. The thread turned into a shit show once again.
Nice strawman.
Deadfire was complete shit, /vrpg/. It's not even worth being contrarian over.
complete shit is overdoing it. the locations looked nice and the combat was fun
PRETTY
FISH
Yeah, he's quite the pretty boy, isn't he?
But it wasn't. Seriously, why do people here even have such an intense hatred for the game?
There's one person that has an intense burning hatred for the game, and it's his mission in life to derail and frick up every Deadfire thread.
The game is very good -- unironically on its way to classic status.
>anon doesn't understand he's the contrarian
i dont believe those number, pillars 2 is one of the least talked about games they've ever made with nearly no online presence. Even tyranny had more.
Tyranny has had a resurgence in discussion because Mandalore made a YouTube video about it. Before then it was pretty dead or impossible to discuss on Ganker because it would be overwhelmed by schizos.
>i don't belive real world data
>i'd rather keep to my belief
moron
Yep.
Let's see: terrible writing and story, placeholder characters, only a small amount of classes and skills (even less than Baldur's Gate, a game from decades ago), no meaningful choices or consequences (yet they market it as an RPG), awful naval menu minigame you are basically forced to ignore, only a few basic dungeons in the entire game and they are completed under 20 mins (except one might take ten minutes longer), the majority of the game consists of you waiting in loading screens as you run from one house to another in the capital (so counter-productive given what the setting is). Not a single interesting quest in the entire game either, literally "go talk to this guy" all the time in a true MMO fashion. It's the shits and people left it on the shelf for a reason.
The quests really tank it for me no matter how nice it looks. It's boredom after boredom. In 1 they could get away with it, it was a game made in record time. And had some cool moments.
It looks decent. But as a man of culture and intelligence, you can tell there's not much beyond the looks. I guess "boredom" is the most common word to describe PoE games, that's exactly what my friends used as well. Although I was the only one who played the second as well, not proud of that.
>But as a man of culture and intelligence
You know there are ways to make a point without sound like some pretentious twat.
You are just jealous nobody ever calls you that. Your mother slapped the bird that brought you.
>You are just jealous
Nope
>Your mother slapped the bird that brought you.
And I'm sure your parents are proud of having raise a pretentious fart sniffer like you. Maybe you go it from them.
If you aren't jealous, don't talk to me. Adults with academic degrees are talking, you aren't one.
>They literally do nothing whatsoever
>The player is forced to sit through regular sessions of them bickering
I mean this just comes down to the general low quality of this game's writing. This isn't just related to sessions with gods but similar problems with writing come up constantly. While I observed the same issue, I found it more problematic personally how weak and pathetic these so-called "gods" were. You could make them angry, destroy their machines and they could do nothing about you. You were their master. Well, at least at the end the walking giant was able to destroy you if you demanded a fight, iirc.
Oh, I remember you. You're that schizo that shat up the last Deadfire thread, boasting about how intelligent you were. Lmfao. Back at it again, huh? Don't you have something better to do than shit up threads? I guess not.
>Adults with academic degrees are talking, you aren't one.
So what's yours?
Women's Studies with a minor in African history
African history is honestly pretty insane and bloody. it will wake you the frick up.
>African history is violent
whoa no way
>You could make them angry, destroy their machines and they could do nothing about you
Galawain sends a Kraken after you if you destroy his machine at Cignath Mor. He then sends an giant crodocile after you if you go to his island. Rymrgand can outright kill you on two separate occasions if you piss him off.
I don't actually consider it threatening when someone sends an octopus after me. Some kind of beastmaster could do the same. Especially when after killing his octopus, he just keeps quiet in the future dreams, no doubt out of embarrassment. But you are right about Rymrgand, he was able to kill if you made that one choice. But regardless, otherwise, if you spend the whole game taking a shit on these demi-gods, you'll walk out of alive and well.
Well, we aren't exactly living the golden age of RPGs, I agree. More like bronze age.
>he just keeps quiet in the future dreams
He literally yells at you for blowing up his machine though. In fact, if you do the Seeker Slayer Survivor after that, he mentioned how you blew it up, and that he wants to protect the island from you.
I don't remember any other yelling than the "NO!" in the underwater temple. Although if he did yell in the next dream, then that's a sign of weakness because he yelled yet was able to do nothing about it.
I didn't play any DLC.
>You could make them angry, destroy their machines and they could do nothing about you.
You were under Berath’s protection. Did you forget one of the first things the game sets up about you? It’s why only rymrgand does anything like destroy you because he doesn’t give a shit about the other gods.
>It’s why only rymrgand does anything like destroy you because he doesn’t give a shit about the other gods.
He's honestly kinda rooting for you to fail at first, and once he realizes that you're stronger than he though, he tries to goad you into convincing Eothas to literally blow up the world. Rymrgand practically has no fricks to give about the other Gods or the state of the world, so much so that he is the only one that never gets into arguments with the other Gods, and mostly watches things unfold in the background.
I think what I like about him the most is the implication that no matter what you do throughout the story of Deadfire, he ends up getting his way. Same thing in the Beast of Winter. Even if you win the fight against his avatar, the ending outright says that the only things you've done is further his apocalyptic ambitions.
It's not a bad game at all. Dont get me wrong. I struggled with it, while I just gave up on Kingmaker and Divinity cause those are just another type of mediocre.
But kingmaker mixes it up and feels classy like neverwinter nights era bioware.
Poe just feels pointless. Its like Skyrim, all the good fun is in the lore books, ALL THESE AMAZING THINGS YOU WILL, actually not see while playing or if they do appear they feel flaccid.
Again I think we some schizo Robert E Howard type nerds in videogame writing. Its fine to have some pulp.
I dont want pseudo Baudolino Josh. The writers you have are not good enough.
But then again look at tyranny its supposed to be metal as frick yet it looks like shit.
My point stands, POE was sabotaged by obsidian.
>But kingmaker mixes it up and feels classy like neverwinter nights era bioware.
It only feels like that on the surface, and I do enjoy that classic fantasy feel, but once you actually play the game, it's just terrible. Can't even call it mediocre. It's one of the few crpgs I have ever struggled with.
I know, but it fools you long enough. The main quest is also meh as frick. As is the pointless kingdom management.
But it hurts to be let down by obsidian, I supported them through fricking fire during alpha protocol days.
But that obsidian is over. Mask of the betrayer is over.
Eh, I enjoyed it for what it was. To me, PoE is one of the better rpgs to come out of the revival era, and as much flaws as it had, I at least finished it. Can't say the same for the likes of Tides of Numenera, Divinity Original Sin 1, Wrath of the Righteous or many of it's modern contemporaries.
I think the revival is not over. And well I think BG and Icewind dale still kinda hold up. Even with the jank engine.
Black geyser is interesting, there are more crpgs in the future I am sure.
>Black geyser is interesting
yeah, about that....
Anon dont be mean, its a really small dev team.
>small dev team please understand
Yeah no. I don't care. The game is shit regardless. It's not about the size of the team, it's about the talent they have, and looking at how Black Geyser turned out, they don't seem to have any.
I also found the demo for skald against the black priory kinda neat.
It's something that not only touched obsidian, its seems a problem with all devs these days.
There are worse games, let's put it like that. And I agree modern Obsidian is crappy. Skyrim is good comparison writing-wise, it's very to-the-point and everything happens so quickly it just feels meaningless.
>it's very to-the-point and everything happens so quickly it just feels meaningless.
So you don't want it to be straightforward?
>Again I think we some schizo Robert E Howard type nerds in videogame writing. Its fine to have some pulp.
You will only get that from small indie studios/passion projects. Any mainstream dev is going to be filled with wahman writers writing shitty fanfic tier stories. This is one reason why I think I enjoy the writing of POE 1 and 2 more than most other modern RPGs. Sawyer (and Avellone for 1) ran a tight ship and controlled that narrative. Women simply can't be that philosophically deep.
>Sawyer (and Avellone for 1) ran a tight ship and controlled that narrative
literal fanfiction, avellone already mentioned in interviews he barely interacted with the other writers, there was no direction and everyone just turned in their shit at the end.
Sawyer corralled the women then and left Avellone to his own devices.
is that why they let them write most of WM
What do you mean? WM is great.
WM is written by these wamen you claim to hate, and even without going into the credits it's painfully obvious given how corny most characters are depicted in it, including ondra
They have writing credits, but you think they controlled the narrative? No. Sawyer did.
what does it matter what the "narrative" is when the dialog is bad ?
the "narrative" of deadfire is fine in a vacuum, the problem is how badly it comes across during the game itself
I don't agree that the dialog is bad. There is some bad dialog, but as modern RPGs go POE is much better in this department.
Because when female writers run the show you get garbage like Siege of Dragonspear and Wrath of the Righteous thanks to pic related
>terrible writing and story, placeholder characters
So what's terrible about it?
>only a small amount of classes and skills
11 classes + hybrid builds
>no meaningful choices or consequences
Apparently you didn't play the game
>awful naval menu minigame
which you can skip altogether by upgrading your ship and not being a moron. Hell, you can even board ships now, pretty much skipping naval combat.
>literally "go talk to this guy"
So just like every other RPG?
Here is the shizo!
Come on shizo, say the line! :^)
The dungeons were all comically bad. Neketaka undercity is the only place in base game with any heft to it and it's still just a couple screens of murdering zombies and vermin
you do realize that the fact that you had to cherry-pick the dungeon from almost the end of the game objectively proves you wrong kiddo
I'm going to make a Mage/Rogue (spellblade) and focus on enchanting and get that dagger that buffs you up when you're shitfaced. Wish me luck, the multiclassing system in this game is so good
No one played the game at all man
There are no real complaints about it it just wasn't a social media FOTM like PoE1 so it failed
They're a bunch of moronic bickering children. It's actually kind of amazing how badly Obsidian shafted the credibility of their own gods.
>It's actually kind of amazing how badly Obsidian shafted the credibility of their own gods.
That was the point, did you even play the first game?
They fumbled their own premise. That's why people disliked it. Believe it or not, people can tell when something is bad. Obsidian needed to build up their setting a little more before they knocked it down. It worked when they knocked down KOTOR/Star Wars cause it was already an established setting. It didn't work when they did it to their own boring ass standard template dnd setting.
You're not really feeling the presence the gods have in the world before you're told that "gods don't real", and then they're dropped on your lap in the sequel and they act like total fricking morons. That was PoE's problem. You're "told" a lot of things, but you don't really see it. And when you do finally see it in 2, it's a farce.
>You're not really feeling the presence the gods have in the world before you're told that "gods don't real",
Most institutions are literally based around worshiping the gods. There's an entire library in the first game that's run by worshipers of Wael.
They are, but that's part of the "tell not show" that I mentioned. You don't feel the presence of the gods in PoE the same way you do, say, the presence of the Force in KOTOR, or the presence of the divine and daedra in LOTR. The reveal that the Divine are all mortals like Talos in TES would have a lot more impact than it did in PoE, because in PoE, the game didn't immerse you in the world at all.
Also, I personally believe that knocking down the setting they built right from the get-go was a bad move. "Gods aren't real and one of them wants to unmake the central principle of the world" is something you save for later because, well, where do you go after that thematically? How do you escalate from that?
>well, where do you go after that thematically? How do you escalate from that?
One way is to explore the fallout of the big revelation. With the artificial Wheel destroyed and the Gods no longer having any influence on the mortal world, it could easily be explored how the people of Eora will deal with that fact, considering how much of their civilization is based around the Gods and worshiping them.
Most likely, within the framework of the setting, it would be better to either show countermeasures to the destruction of the wheel, which would lead us to its creation, that is, to some ancient Engwithan mechanisms, and so on. Or the rapid growth of science (animancy) and attempts of the empires to create some kind of their own manipulations with souls, to make their own analogue of the wheel or their own demigods.
Well, the big problem at hand with that in PoE's case is "who fricking cares about the fallout". After the setting getting subverted right off the bat, what's the point of caring anymore? It was already hard to care because the setting presented in PoE 1 was very cold and clinical.
The overall problem is that the writers are seemingly incapable of tackling the big brain cosmic plot that's happening in the setting they created, as shown by Deadfire. The Legacy of Kain has a similar synopsis, with a big twist and revelation about the nature of death and rebirth, the cosmic wheel of souls, and the Elder God, and they pulled it off because the writers were skilled. They were so skilled, in fact, that they managed to make you like and be invested in the struggle of evil vampires. I think Deadfire, and PoE in general, needed to be more theatrical and grandiose to make this sort of high level plot be enjoyable, but it's actually just a farce. It only works on paper, and they blundered the execution twice.
>needed to be more theatrical and grandiose to make this sort of high level plot be enjoyable
Would have detracted from what Obsidian were going for. PoE doesn't aim to be some over the top wannabe Shakespearean play like Legacy of Kain.
What was Obsidian going for? I swear, I've seen the "It's supposed to be shit and anticlimactic on purpose" argument a dozen times, and I'm still unconvinced.
>very cold and clinical
This is actually an interesting way to describe PoE. People usually call it simply boring. But when you think about it, the writing does come off as very "clinical." I had the exact same impression.
Good post.
My job suggests otherwise. Meanwhile you're unemployed permanently, fatso. Just shut the frick up and sit down.
>My job suggests otherwise
And what's your job?
>Meanwhile you're unemployed permanently
Wrong
> deadfire has even more women in power
See, this is moronic. Literally every character "in power" in WotR is a woman. In fact, almost every important character in WotR is a woman.
- The Queen.
- Iomedae.
- The stupid orc and her troony sidekick.
- The primary antagonist.
- 80% of the characters you meet in the abyss.
And you're telling me that Deadfire has more women in power? It doesn't.
Deadfire has the two Aumaua queens (not just one), the pirate queen and the Vailian director (both who can assume the leadership after overthrowing men), the leader of Royal Deadfire Company. That's already saying every faction leader is potentially a female.
Making lists is unfair because PoE has only a handful of characters to begin with since the game is so narrow.
>the pirate queen
She's not even the actual leader. The one who leads the pirates is Furrante, and you can chose to either side with him, side with Aeldys, or tell both of them to frick off and make Two-Eyed Pim the leader, who's a white male.
>Vailian director (both who can assume the leadership after overthrowing men)
Only if you help her
>the leader of Royal Deadfire Company
That's about the only correct thing you said
I said they can assume the leadership if you help them, so potential leaders. Like the other anon said, weak defense.
>That's about the only correct thing you said
So you reject the fact the capital is ruled by a queen and that hostile Aumaua tribe is ruled by a matriarch as well? Play the game, please.
>Play the game, please.
I did. I just didn't mention the Queen part. But okay, I concede, you're right about that part as well. But if we're talking about leaders and potential leaders, the same thing applies to Pathfinder.
>But okay, I concede
That's all I ever wanted.
Remember though, it's only about the Queen. Don't let it get to your head.
Too late, it's all up there with the piss.
If it helps you sleep at night, sure.
You know, I really wondered why Owlcat would pick Wrath of the Righteous - a fricking Amber Scott creation - as the story for their second Pathfinder game. Then I started looking at the other adventure paths and it made a lot more sense. Pathfinder is just shit all around.
>Pathfinder is just shit all around.
Basically, yeah
It's not really surprising that Owlcat abandoned the absolute shitshow that is Pathfinder and just went to Warhammer instead. Granted, I doubt they'll write anything good.
What are you talking about? Their game will be a CRPG still, they're not switching the genre. Only the setting. Pathfinder games sold well so they can make a sci-fi game based on them. If they actually started making different kind of games, your post would make sense. Now it's just insane bitter ramblings of a crazy person.
I never said they switched genres. What I meant was that they abandoned the settings of Pathfinder and moved to 40k. Read anon read.
I see, so you don't like the Forgotten Realms.
They're hiring for a new Pathfinder game that's using Unreal, they're big enough now that they can work on two projects and DLC at once.
Everything in PoE has a sort of sombre, melancholy feel to it. At times there's a certain charm to this, you really feel the misery, especially during the hollowborn crisis. The problem with subverting the Gods is, as you say, it leaves you with nothing to care about. Part of the appeal of fantasy settings will always be the fact they're, for lack of a better term, fantastical. PoE loses some of that.
I also blame Deadfire's frankly amazing score for this, because it conveyed the tone constantly more or less.
The somber feel is a plus.
And the whole thing about "subverting the gods leaving you nothing to care about" just means that you need to think a little bit more deeply about the setting, anon. They're not gods at all; this isn't low-IQ Pathfinder.
I like WotR and Deadfire. The former mostly for its settings and the range of its branching paths, the latter more for its lore and writing. WotR is honestly the most fun I had with an RPG since BG2. It just felt huge and expansive, also Mythic Path theme is amazing.
They really gave Mythic Paths some flavor by introducing those questlines and allowing you to customize Drezden and its citizen based on them, good for roleplaying. The main problem with Mythic Paths is that they become mechanically broken. Meaning, the skills they provide are simply OP.
Although if you changed your mind and went Legendary, you gained so many level so fast you became OP anyway. So there's no running away from them.
Oh I completely agree the Pathfinder system is broken in WotR, but it's an immensely hard system to get right in video game terms when you're adding a layer of "you're basically a demi-god" on top of it. I just really enjoyed the journey. For lack of a better term, for the first time since BG2 I felt like I'd gone on a truly epic beginning to end quest.
>immensely hard system to get right in video game terms
Yep. While I'm not entirely satisfied with it, if I had to pick the spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate (2) out of these modern games, it'd be Pathfinder because at least it seeks to provide that classic D&D roleplaying experience. But they really should get rid of prebuffing. I'm also getting tired of the protagonist always being a demi-god or something similar, but at least in WotR you could choose what kind of demi-god your character was. So again, good for choices and roleplaying.
>if I had to pick the spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate (2) out of these modern games, it'd be Pathfinder
That's it for me too. It captured that same feeling through and through. Even Kingmaker -> WotR feels similarly tonally to BG1 -> BG2.
Wish we could get a FR RPG which allowed you to go back to Athkatla though. Has there ever been a WRPG city better than that one?
>OC is a big farce
That reminds me, it had some genuinely funny moments: Battle of the Bards, the court case etc.
And the adventurers that show up at your keep to ask for quests being a mismatch of races and classes. If you've ever played dnd before, that's funny as hell.
>Athkatla
The city is definitely impressive for its time. But I think more important is how different stories and characters living in that city were tied together. There seemed to be consequences of your actions and surprises behind the corner all the time, very pleasant city to explore namely from a roleplaying perspective.
If you consider Witcher 3 a WRPG, then Novigrad comes quite close in my books. Very immersive, vast and many stories there. But when it comes to classic WRPGs, then Athkatla (or the second chapter in general) is definitely the gold standard.
If you think about it, Athkatla was not that complex nor big.
but even rando npcs had interesting stuff to say evne with humour but not on Larian levels.
Something just fricking happened to writers, peo looks like a supermodel but its as dry as a ship cookie.
>Something just fricking happened to writers
Yes, they became women. And I mean women not trannies, although I guess there are some of those too.
>Yes, they became women. And I mean women not trannies, although I guess there are some of those too.
I dont believe you anon since many adventure games ( which women loved adn now are fricking forced to play cowaduty) writers were men and women, and throe games had competent writing.
Its cultural. Many classic fantasy books were written by women as well.
When Margaret Weis co-wrote Dragonlance no one was pushing TSR to be more inclusive of women in tabletop gaming or fantasy novels. These women were rare exceptions who had a genuine love of the hobby and talent to contribute to it. Now women are hired and published simply for being women. So yes you're right in a way that it's the culture pushing these talentless hack women on us, but at the end of the day the problem is women. And gays. Also israelites.
But what *IS* women?
Sure but i am kinda eye straining to see male talent as well, and those few usually get scapegoated and cancelled the shit out of the system.
Just like you are doing to women, gays and israelites. Vanity and cultural rot is the problem. Not fricking gays.
>be the change you want to see
Well we shall see who is brave enough. Fricking nobody. I know since I read my history. We are stuck in this gen. I guess it could be worse.
gays are a result of cultural rot. But yes you're making my point for me. Women need to be included at these companies now. Most women can't code so they have to he hired as writers and community people, which squeezes more qualified men out of these positions and results in a shittier final product for us, the consumer. The cherry on top of this degenerate pie is that despite the push for it most women still don't give a shit about gaming beyond candy crush, so the ones we do get are all dangerhair lunatics looking to make a moronic statement.
I can see it now that you mention it, but it did not feel that way when I played it. Once again, I think it was too cold and matter of fact to evoke any kind of feeling. In PoE 1, I remember just being bored most of the time, and annoyed at its' attempts of being grimderp. I think the writers just couldn't sell it.
MotB was a sombre and melancholic game, and I felt it. Maybe its' environment was so misty and chilly. Dark Souls also was sombre and melancholic, cause of the loneliness and how everything around you was dead and decayed. PoE had generic environments and most of the NPCs acted just a bit too rationally and I guess boringly normal. Only the lord whatever his name was I remember being just a bit unhinged, and the stupid communist noble-hating wizard. Everyone else was I think too well adjusted for how grimderp the backstory was. Just like with Tyranny, they couldn't sell it.
You can have the most smartly written setting and it's all for naught if you can't make people care about it. Also, you don't have to think at all about subverting the gods. It's all there, it's presented to you front left and center. There's nothing to think about, it's stated as a fact. And then they do nothing with the revelation. There's nothing deep about some super-powerful god-wannabee wizards bickering like twitter lesbians.
NWN2 OC campaign is honestly one of the most somber and miserable, not necessarily in a bad way, that I've ever played through. I mean you literally have a father having to watch his daughter die at (essentially) his own hands.
That whole campaign is grief beginning to end. I'm surprised so many of you hate NWN2's campaign to be honest. I really enjoyed it.
Oh, I enjoyed OC, too. I didn't bring it up cause MotB fit the argument better. OC had some fricked up shit in it, but it wasn't as melancholic front start to finish as MotB. OC is a big farce sometimes, but it's a funny farce. I'll say that it's better than PoE 1's plot, that's for sure.
You literally can't read. I swear to moronic gods of Deadfire, you seriously can't. Zero reading comprehension.
And you have zero arguments. Frick off.
I have but you have no reading comprehension to read them. Ghetto monkey.
Okay pseud. You have zero arguments.
zero arguments. the post
Also game clearly shows that knowledge of "gods are fake" is meaningless, because people would go out of their way to worship and a lot of versions of gods they worship are already far from what they are. People dont understand theme of the game, because it is really to clevere for avarage IQ normies. The theme of the game is not that the gods are unreal, but that in harsh conditions people will believe in what helps them, regardless of whether it is real or not. And it pops up in the game all the time. Even a hardened pirate prays to Ondra just in case. And atheist as Pallegina just become salty and triggered.
>And atheist as Pallegina just become salty and triggered.
An atheist would imply that she doesn't believe in the Gods. No, she fully believe in them, but she also hates them because she hates being a godlike. That's the entire reason she confronts Hylea at the end of PoE1.
>No, she fully believe in them
She dont belive in them as gods. There is a difference between recognizing a being as the supreme, or consider it another magical thing which is present in the setting.
You don't know what atheist means. Basic word.
Well I kinda get what they are going for and forgive the Gods part.
My main issue is boredom quests and shit companions. And in 2 finish your fricking game. No I dont ned FULL VA.
I also have some intense hate for how silly aumaua look, useless like orlans its just to say it has hobbits and smart orcs.
Yeah, the full VA was pretty fricking stupid decision. I believe they openly regret that.
When you stand next to a massive pile of brown shit, people can't tell which one you are.
And I doubt people can differentiate between you and a chimpanzee
>It's actually kind of amazing how badly Obsidian shafted the credibility of their own gods.
I'm pretty sure White March already did that when you ended up guilt tripping Ondra into helping you.
>>make a setting where the gods aren't what they seem
>>they're not truly gods at all
>OMG THEY TOTALLY UNDERMINED THE GODS OF THEIR OWN SETTING
how do people this dumb even exist? are you black?
...they're not gods, moron. That's the whole point. They can be KILLED.
This. Even the term "god" is such an utterly stupid choice to describe these demi-god beings, the Watcher can shit on them freely. The writers of this game truly had no slightest clue what they were doing. Imagine writing lore where "gods" play a central role while having zero clue about basics of myths. What is cultural science?
>Killing the water elemental in Wrath was annoying as frick
Nah, you are just garbage player. Play more RPGs.
I hate a lots of shit in poe anon but that was the point, these shit demi gods belonged to a Assyrian type disgusting civilisation.
So its really a God of War time to kill situation where all these races now entering the early modern period will start dismantling these homosexuals.
Who knows maybe a new true god religion will begin. I think Eothas understands the meaning of "sacrifice".
No it is not anon. Not even close. Its pretty shit at points.
>Its pretty shit at points.
Not it's not
Okay fine whatever.
It's pretty obvious in game design and in lore it is very lazy at points but okay.
Sure, if it helps you sleep at night
Another moron who doesn't understand basic plot points. Oh and look he's a Pathfinder gay. It's all coming together.
>he can't clear the engwinthian dig site on potd but calls others garbage at rpgs
lol, lmao
That was another poster. Anyway, the potd changes were done without quality control and this is clear from how development on the game came to a halt with a few major bugs still around
are you implying owlcat games have any amount of quality control
I mean I'm the one talking about poe, don't know shit about owlcat; have yet to finish the first pathfinder
if you're not the post I quoted talking about the water elemental what are you even talking about to me
because the one saying the digsite was badly balanced is not the same saying you are garbage at rpgs simple as
the entire dig site can be skipped with like 4 stealth, 2 of which are only relevant for the last stretch and can be obtained with thief putty. If you're not willing to hire one merc it's pretty simple to just avoid the encounters.
digsite isnt even hard yall just need to get good at videogames
It's kinda difficult tbh
I had to try it a few times on potd. It wasn't really that hard. My first thought would be the people in those posts either picked a shitty class, or built their class wrong. They also could have fricked up the companions, but that's kind of hard to do that early on.
>Berath is the only attractive and sexy one.
Guess which god Josh has stated is his favourite one?
>bird
>pussy
Why did they go out of their way to make the gods as weird and ugly as possible? Gods in real world mythology arent like that
You must not have looked at a lot of real world mythological gods. Look at this weird looking goblin, aka Fujin the god of wind.
>Gods in real world mythology arent like that
Gods in real world mythology are way the frick weirder.
Yep, take a look at this god.
>Sheela Na Gigs
>Her name means ‘the old hag of the breasts’ – most often depicted as an old woman with an exposed and exaggerated vulva. She is known for being a lustful pagan Goddess, which further adds to her odd appearance. Despite her outwardly repulsive appearance, the latter attempted to seduce men by exposing herself.
>Most men refused the offer, but those that accepted, she rewarded with prosperity and Kingship. She’s also known to be involved with fertility rituals and weddings. Most of her figurines originated in ancient Ireland and Britain.
>Gods in real world mythology arent like that
Really?
This is Radegast, the Slavic God of Hospitality and the Harvest.
And Triglav, the three-headed God of Vigilance.
Not to be confused with Svetovid, the four headed God of Abundance and War.
>Slavic God of Hospitality and the Harvest.
better known for his other works
He's also the original sigma male.
He had a goddess who wanted him to frick her, he didn't want to, but Stribog did, so he pretended to be Radegast by stealing his cloak and fricking her. Radegast was angered by all this shit going down, but only because Stribog stole his cloak. Literally gave no fricks about the Goddess, and when she wanted her babby to be allowed to be a god of one of the seasons, Stribog simped hard for her, but Radegast refused on principle and made two other seasonal gods watch over it instead.
Hylea was pretty good looking though. Not on the level of Berath, but still.
Outside of Ondra, I don't think the other Gods are ugly per say. Weird for sure, but I like it, since it makes them stand out over most other fantasy universes that portray their Gods as generic looking super models.
I think some of the gods change the way they appear depending on where in Eora they materialise. So Ondra looks like a fertility goddess in Deadfire Archipelago but has no physical manifestation in Dyrwood.
>Berath is the prettiest
>Berath's face is a see-through pasty ghostface with skelly underneath
I suppose I'd frick a ghost girl too compared to burning horngirl and old angry granny
Hey I like poe 1 and 2 (2's combat is awesome) but holy shit will they ever fix the bugs in poe 2? Not being able to drink potions? All the AI goofing? The first island being impossible to complete with the predefined party without hiring extra help (and no mention of this whatsoever)?
Hello????
case in point
Could someone on twitter go bother the devs about this?
>The first island being impossible to complete with the predefined party without hiring extra help
That's just a lie though. I've beaten the game a few times on the hardest difficulty and never hired extra help. Look at this video, dude has the default party when he leaves the island.
Something is wrong here
there are supposed to be 1 or 2 giant drakes in there as well, and you usually aggro the whole thing
after some investigation it seems that the 2.0 patch made potd way harder, without much consideration for playtesting, which is what I was talking about
?t=708
he doesn't even fight the drakes and goes to the wrong area and in this video as well
But even in the video you posted with the harder difficulty he still has the predefined party, which proves it can be done even with the 2.0 patch that increased difficulty. I also started playing PoE2 in 2020 so I always had 2 drakes for the fight.
I guess he did manage after many reloads, resting, abuse of game mechanics, blah blah blah but it's simply not scaled properly for a party of 3 people when it's the first area in the game and the rest of it is more or less a cakewalk even on potd
That's the usual experience for almost any RPG though. On the hardest difficulty the beginning is always the hardest. Killing the water elemental in Wraith of the Righteous was annoying as frick, but then power creep sets in and you destroy everything.
the not being able to drink potions bug is such a big one that im shocked they haven't fixed it. like utterly shocked
I want to join this shitshow and bicker about the gods but I keep getting oneshot by a looter with a gun in the first port. I know I need to git gud I just wanted to say that guns seem deadlier in Deadfire compared to the first one.
The only thing I like about them is that they dont feel cringe like Faerun Gods.
But they dropped the ball with their lore too soon. Them being fake shoudl have been just a conspiracy.
I guess god of war scenario woudl work here with somebody just fricking killing them one by one.
>god of war scenario
it might sound good but I don't think it is possible.
The gods tried to kill Eothas once before but he came back
rouges are good, you can never go wrong with them, but I had enough of the mages spells, and played a lot of rouges so now I want to try different builds or classes
so I hope this anon's
build works out
Indo European gods being pretty was a very Greek humanist way of seeing things and even then Greek gods could turn into eldritch shit and kill people instantly.
Most other pantheons Gods were pretty fricking weirder than anything in POE which is honestly pretty mild.
Which is one of the reason I hate the game. Its made by people that already failing to have erections.
do the needful, ranjeet
Have more waifus. Fix both POE games, you all know this to be true.
>add more waifuhomosexualry
I hate this fricking board so much
Why not? You dont need to ruin the setting. It's fricking videogames.
It’s weird to me they decreased the roster from 6 to 5 in Deadfire. There are so many companions and sidekicks too, there were several who I pretty much never travelled with
at least the size of your roster is relevant for boarding fights
Is it just me or do all the faction in this suck? I genuinely cant choose a faction to side with at the end because theyre all buttholes
>all the faction in this suck?
They do. Every faction in this game is moronic.
>Every faction in this game is moronic
I agree they suck but how are they moronic? Their motivations make perfect sense
The problem isn't that they're all buttholes, the problem is that they're all generic and bland. Nobody has a personality in this game.
Does Deadfire end on a cliffhanger or sequel hook? It’d annoy me if it did since POE3 is never happening
Yeah, it does. The events that happen in deadfire do wrap up, but it's heavily implied that your character is going to be important for future events. Especially after you essentially put the entire world into turmoil
It sucks since poe3 will never happen.
>poe3 will never happen
That's Avowed.
I hope that PoE3 will happen after Avowed is well received.
It wont, because there is no way to sell singleplayer isometric RPG with budget of california developers. To be profitable it should be game with known francahse name, coop and developed in eastern europe.
This is true as well and shows how out of touch Obsidian is. You don't just jump to making next Skyrim with their resources and already they are suffering through serious director issues. Although to be fair, PoE is well-known, although not for good reasons.
No its not. Poe isnt well known, its audience is 300k, 500k top including shizos who rant about it. In order for the production of a modern game of such scale to be feasible, the audience should be 1-2 million. And it never would be such. Niche geners would die in current market. Hell, even singleplayer blockbusters die.
I can agree with that, PoE isn't exactly that well-known, but people still played the first game until realizing it was shit and then didn't bother with the next one. I absolutely agree that creating a Skyrim clone is a terrible idea from them.
What if Avowed is a prequel? The focus on Woedica (banners of her symbol and the sword in the trailer is called Oathbinder) makes it seem like it takes place before her fall.
PoE is basically Skyrim of CRPGs so no wonder they moved on to making Avowed. I doubt it'll get a good reception, however.
>PoE is basically Skyrim of CRPGs
I'm pretty sure that's Pathfinder
Nah, you have no clue about RPGs and you are here just to troll. Skyrim is all about casualization just like PoE is. PoE has what, ten classes? WotR has even more prestige classes than that, twice as many normal classes and then tons more subclasses. There's nothing extremely casualized about Pathfinder games.
Are you the same troll who argued with the other guy about Pathfinder as well? This is a PoE thread. Grow up and go fight with people elsewhere.
>WotR has even more prestige classes than that, twice as many normal classes and then tons more subclasses
And more than half of them feel undercooked. Same goes for the shitty mythic paths. Pathfinder is the epitome of quantity over quality. A game that tries to do a lot, but ends up doing very little at the same time.
>Pathfinder is an imbalanced mess of a system.
You're right, it's not Skyrim. Skyrim is much better than that crap.
Another nonsensical post. If a person is an idiot, you can expect all his posts to reflect that.
Skyrim, PoE and Pathfinder games are all below average games for different reasons. But at least Pathfinder games have something they do better than others, namely provide customization options and choice for roleplaying, meanwhile Skyrim and PoE are casualized games made for people who don't play RPGs.
Pathfinder is shit and you're moronic.
At least it's not casualized shit like Skyrim and PoE. At least you can, say, choose a mount for yourself and become a wolf-riding orc if you so wish. Hell, WotR has twice as many personal mount options than PoE has classes, what does that say about depth? Skyrim has only horses, PoE doesn't have mounts at all. Calling its system a "mess" is exactly what a casual would say and why he wants all the games to be like Skyrim. The game has garbage writing and minigame (like PoE) but at least it does something really well. I appreciate it when games do at least something well. The best thing about PoE is fast mode (nowadays) and that's quite sad, when it just helps you to get faster to loading screens.
On the one hand build autism.
On the other hand, a 20IQ setting, a pantheon that makes literally zero sense, bland and generic dungeons, a story that railroads you and give you zero real choice, a total system breakdown in the lategame, and more wokeness.
PoE is the superior game.
> PoE doesn't have mounts at all.
moron, you're on a small boat for most of the game.
nta but
>bland and generic dungeons, a story that railroads you and give you zero real choice
PoE is guilty of these too.
>more wokeness
This Black person here is right
Both games suck on that regard.
Pathfinder is far more pozzed than POE. It's not even close.
Oh, I agree. I just think it’s sad.
You're wrong about almost everything, even about where the game takes place. You are not on a "boat" (it's a ship, you fricking idiot) for most of the game, you're running around in the capital from one house to another. You use the ship to travel quickly from one location to another and that is a matter of minutes. And even if you were on a "boat," are you actually aware that animals are able to stand on "boats" too? That's not an excuse.
Your other points are similarly stupid, but I refuse to write an entire essay for someone who can't and isn't willing to learn. Sufficient to say, it is absolute certain for anyone who has played both games that WotR has more dungeon and puzzle variety, also more roleplaying encounters in dungeons. There's also more of them and they take longer to clear.
>has more dungeon and puzzle variety
NTA, but literally everyone hated the puzzles in Wrath. They were absolute shit. And the dungeons were average at best, nothing special.
I won't glorify WotR dungeons because you are right, they are average at best. However, in comparison to PoE's dungeons, you can easily tell the difference: they take a proper amount of time to explore and clear, you stumble across surprises (rooms where different things are happening), extra bosses, not all the puzzles are "put these things in order," there are more than a few of them (unlike in PoE)...
When someone who likes PoE's dungeons calls WotR's dungeons "bland and generic," you just know they are full of shit. PoE has a couple caverns and the pirate fort and that's that. The caverns take fifteen mins to clear.
Another question is if the puzzles were actually likable. At least that floor puzzle where you had to go to different locations on the map was the shits.
Now it's clear that you've never played Deadfire. Two of the expansions have massive dungeons, that beat the brakes off anything in WotR or Kingmaker -- in terms of aesthetics, variability, creativity, even puzzles.
What kind of absolute moron would touch DLCs after suffering through the base game? I'd die out of embarrassment.
Everything has been baffling to you after your ugly fat mother dropped you on your head when you were a child. There's nothing baffling about wanting to make puzzles (and other challenges in games) as entertaining as possible. Not once did I say the quality of puzzles doesn't matter. There must be both variety and entertainment, that's the simple point yet you couldn't even comprehend that. Obese, uneducated disgusting slob, all I can say.
Oh wow, attacking my mother. What a classic. That'll sure get your point across.
>There's nothing baffling about wanting to make puzzles (and other challenges in games) as entertaining as possible
There's everything baffling with praising shitty ones
>Not once did I say the quality of puzzles doesn't matter.
And yet you praise the shit ones in Pathfinder on on the basis that they exist, not on whether they're actually good.
>Obese, uneducated disgusting slob, all I can say.
Oh look, more personal attacks.
You know what, after the last thread I don't feel like arguing with you. It's pretty clear that you have your head so far up your ass you can smell your own farts. And since you have zero standards to speak of, there's no point in further discussion. I hope your parents are proud though, they sure raised an insufferable c**t that thinks himself a genius. Maybe you got it from them.
I didn't praise a single puzzle. Not one. I called one shit. So I did the opposite of what you're claiming. This stupidity is why you fight with everyone in these threads and when you happen to reply to me, I end up calling you what you are, a glasses-wearing, four-eyed obese imbecile who gets removed from any uni campus.
Thank you for never replying to me again.
>This stupidity is why you fight with everyone in these threads
As far as I can tell, it's you vs. everybody else, just like the last thread.
Give it a break already. We all get that you hate the game. I think that your reasoning is spurious but it's ultimately subjective. So go hate the game somewhere else and let the people who appreciate it discuss it in peace.
>This stupidity is why you fight with everyone in these threads
You literally go into every PoE thread to start an argument and then have a meltdown when people call you out. Don't think that I don't remember seeing you in the previous thread arguing with the other anons for hours and upon hours. And just look at some of your previous comments. People are aware of what kind of person you are. A buffoon who thinks himself at the top of the class. But you're not, and the sooner you realize that and start taking your meds, the better for everyone, mostly for the people here who don't want to read your inane drivel.
>Another question is if the puzzles were actually likable.
This is such a baffling mentality to have.
>It doesn't matter that the puzzles are shit guys, as long as there in the game
Like what? Do you have no standards or any objective thinking in your head? You praise them on the basis that it's more that the competition, but not on their own merit.
>was the shits.
Guess I shouldn't have actually expected much from you.
>The caverns take fifteen mins to clear.
I assume you want them to last for about 2-3 hours?
Fifteen mins is definitely way too short, it doesn't feel like an adventure, more like a brief visit to some hole. One hour is tolerable but I wouldn't mind dungeons that take hours in singleplayer RPGs, if they are written appropriately. DA:O had a good idea with the Deep Roads, it reminded me of Verne's Voyage au centre de la Terre. It's a good feeling when you spend a good amount of time slaying monsters, leveling up and then finally after defeating the final boss walking away with a lot of loot. When a dungeon creates this sense of adventure and reward, that's great.
Origins had very few dungeons, so it made sense why the ones that were in the game were longer. And the Deep Roads it particular is one of the least liked parts of the game for a good reason
Origins actually has real dungeons, unlike PoE. But you are correct in that the game's dungeon philosophy is one big dungeon for each location and I think that's actually a really good design philosophy. All the dungeons are serviceably long as far as I can remember. The Deep Roads is one of the least liked parts, I believe so too, because the AD/HD generation does want immediate gratification. It's not even that long ride, like one to two hours and you can always save. I prefer hardships over QoL features, nonetheless. If a dungeon can establish an entire storyline of its own, that's also good.
This thread is filled with people who say negative things about PoE and are attacked by you. Just stop, I don't care about you and I see no value in your posts. Talk about the game.
If you unironically think that every post defending PoE here is by me, then you really need to take your meds. Also, pot calling kettle black, don't you think? You're the person mass replying to people, whether they be bashing the game or defending it. Seriously, touch some grass you basement dwelling troglodyte.
>Origins actually has real dungeons, unlike PoE
NTA, but this is objectively false. The Endless Paths, and the Dwarven Fortress in White March, are great dungeons. In PoE2, both expansions have huge dungeons, and the game has smaller ones scattered all over the map.
Your view of PoE is irrational and biased, not to mention annoying. You should seriously just leave this thread. You don't like a game, we all get it.
Too bad the reasonable players didn't agree with you and stay with the franchise. When is PoE3 coming along with its successful dungeons?
>reasonable players
lol
Release date? I'm sure all the dungeon lovers are rubbing their sweaty hands anxiously to get their hands on the next PoE3 that will surely get made because it was such a great game with such great dungeons.
PoE2 is the only "RPG" I can think of where the devs forgot to put any dungeons in the game so they had to add them with DLCs. The player literally has to pay extra to play a dungeon, at least you claim so. If the quality is the same as in the game, I wouldn't praise them.
You sound like a broken record at this point and I like how you don't even acknowledge the dungeons the other anon mentioned. You really aren't here to discuss anything it seems. Just to scream at the void.
He's most likely a mentally stunted 30 year old who still lives in his mothers basement. Surprisingly the stupid c**t hasn't kicked him out yet.
Stop replying to me, you degreeless, loveless virgin. I pray your prostitute of a mother dies in her sleep tonight because you don't deserve love and she is the only one who might show you that. Like the other guy said: fricking troonysaurus.
Who are you even talking about, you fricking idiot? Seems like you have your anons mixed up.
>I pray your prostitute of a mother dies in her sleep tonight
I hope your chokes in front of you. Fricking homosexual.
Get cancer and die a slow, painful death.
>pretty mild
Nah, if you reached the capital, you'll meet the gay fish and everything falls apart there. In this sense, PoE and PF are carved from the same tree.
>Get cancer and die a slow, painful death.
Someone's assmad
I really, honestly think that you haven't played the game. The "gay fish" is mild AF compared to all the shit that goes on in WotR and even Kingmaker.
Do you have any other examples to share?
>Pathfinder is a better RPG because it has mounts
Are you 12?
The post you quoted says nothing about mounts. The post is about quality of dungeons. Please learn to read. At this age, you should be able to.
Dodging the point made because someone accidentally replied to the wrong post is on the same level as declaring victory over a typo. You are literal children.
>You are literal children
So go away, please, and stop shitting up this thread.
You're so bizarre and odious that I'm beginning to suspect that you're an Owlcat employee.
What the frick are you talking about? I'm not the schizo. I like POE and hate Pathfinder.
Oh I see what I did. I didn't mean to reply to you. My bad, bro.
Bunch of morons.
Just stop giving the guy (you)'s. He literally thrives on attention.
>PoE has a couple caverns and the pirate fort and that's that
thank god PoE tries to move away from the stupid trope of the world being full of hitler's-bunker-style-underground-dungeons on the same level your face is full of acne
That's just doesn't make any sense.
In Deadfire islands mechanically take the role of dungeons, and the level design in any PoE game is miles ahead of Pathfinder games.
And I'm not even touching on gorgeously designed actual dungeons that are present in the games
Caves with tiny maps with one or two encounters in them are not dungeons. They are called fillers or, alternatively, locations of busywork. Neither are short hallways considered dungeons. You don't know what dungeons mean in the context of RPGs.
PoE is better than Pathfinder in every way, unless you're an insufferable low-IQ autist... which you appear to be. Quantity does not equal quality, and the Pathfinder games are mostly a joke.
It sad how Pathfinder games a ruined by lunatic devs.
The first problem is game design. Too strong binding to cubes, too strong randomness, too literal translation of the rules, despite the fact that a lot of things simply doesn’t work in practice and it will never be fixed, because there are not so many testers. Moreover, the randomness and dependence on cubes was aggravated even in comparison with Baldurs Gate, where you could be okay with it because this is an ancient game and one of the first attempts to transfer a board game to a computer one. But in BG it was one of the flaws/features that just goes with DnD, in Pathfinder it`s not only that, but it seems like they tried to purposefully design the game around this.
Second is some crazy reverence for LGBT and queers. All the characters are some kind of cartoonish freaks and fricked up and these are their MAIN features. It's scary to imagine what they will do with Rogue Trader.
And after all Owlcat, perhaps the only ones who will remain to do CRPG in the modern market. Sad.
The flaw in your reasoning is that you seem to assume that quantity means lack of quality. Similarly, you seem to assume that no quantity equals to quality. This is not valid reasoning.
However, feel free to form an actual argument (instead of just namecalling) that proves these mounts, for example, have no quality to them. The amount of choices establishes they have quantity. The fact these mounts are levelable companions and have different talents, attack patterns, stats, gear options, weight classes and so on directly proves there is quality to them. Yet, you insist they don't, they are just quantity to you. This quite frankly doesn't make any sense.
>the locations you visit aren't big enough to warrant the usage of mounts
Hah, I'd believe that: when you reach the other end of the largest dungeon in ten mins, I suppose mounts are not needed. They would expose the truth that no effort was put into this game.
Aren't you the homosexual that was shrieking about the submarine in the last thread? What do you make of the (lol) tech dungeon in WotR?
>And even if you were on a "boat," are you actually aware that animals are able to stand on "boats" too?
I think anon's point is that you already have a ship as a means of transportation across the Archipelago. And the locations you visit aren't big enough to warrant the usage of mounts.
>you can get different skins for your mount
I guess wow is the best rpg ever made then
Not skins, but levelable companions. Levelable companions that differ in stats aren't "skins." MMOs even aren't RPGs, they are services.
wow mounts have different abilities too. They're skins. You're just an easily impressed moron who thinks MORE IS BETTER
What the frick? You can level mounts in WoW nowadays? You can gear them, select talents for them and use for combat? They increase your weight capacity? I have no idea but I'll call you out for total bullshit. Even if that was true, by definition "skin" does not entail game mechanics, by definition "skin" refers to cosmetic appearance. I'm not talking about skins and I sure as hell aren't talking about MMOs or their products.
And hell yes, more customization options is better in RPGs. The only reason you disagree because you are clueless about them.
More isn't better when it's all shit, anon.
Sure thing, please formulate an actual argument against the statement here. Nobody else was able to:
how is that mechanically different from having an extra companion?
It's not. It's just fluff and bloat. You are impressed by fluff. You are the casul
> Pathfinder
> provides customization options and choice for roleplaying
Roleplaying? What an absolutely moronic post.
And below-average compared to what, exactly? Baldur's Gate? PS:T? What, if any, games do you actually like? You keep evading this question.
>Pathfinder games ... provide customization options and choice for roleplaying
1. (requires a lawful alignment) [report for trolling outside /b/]
2. (neutral) [ignore the shizo]
3. (chaotic good) You are clearly not well, you need to take your prescription medicine
4. You know we should spend more time together in my tent...
I'd say having a choice to turn your stronghold into Necropolis is pretty solid proof of the game's potential. Compare it to Skyrim where you can buy basic houses and buy basic decorations. Or to PoE2 where you don't even get a house, let alone a castle.
I'm sure she would if she tried, anybody could. My lady too is more interested in more traditional female activities, but she's capable and has a good job.
>Or to PoE2 where you don't even get a house, let alone a castle.
But you can buy yourself a ship and upgrade it, which does play a part both in the story and gameplay.
>which does play a part in the story
False. The only story function of the ship type is to allow the player to cross the storm. You can get a ghost ship, but you can't even get a ghost crew or have the character become a lich. When you get the ghost ship, there's no story to be had in it. In Necropolis, there are stories and consequences. You literally can turn your companions into zombies and all that. Nothing like that in PoE.
>You literally can turn your companions into zombies
Pathetic
>OMG!! MORE SKIN OPOTIONS
wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle...
you are a contrarianus casual banalis and that's a fact
>I like this thing so I am smart and better than you
Meanwhile in Deadfire...
u mad
rofl
Mad I forced myself to try to complete this piece of shit for the 5th time yes. Luckily I got far enough this time to fully realize how insane and stupid you you c**ts are
>Completing something he hates for the 5th time
for what purpose anon
crpgs are not your genre. we get it
you can go back to >>>Ganker now
Imagine being filtered this hard.
This is why it must be said that it takes a high IQ to appreciate PoE and Deadfire.
>for the 5th time
If you hate something so much, why even bother? This is something I will never get. It's fine to not like something, but you literally come on these threads to rage about PoE, and then talk how you tried 5 fricking times to complete a game you clearly didn't like. Are you a masochist by any chance?
To be fair, each one of those contributes differently to their disposition system I think
most pathfinder class-kits are meaningless in a vidya-game and are [almost] never used by any one that plays pathfinder 1 or 2
Deadfire has 66 class kits if I remember correctly, most of which introduce dramatic playstyle changes, and all of which can be multi-classed in a meaningful way, this gives you way more actually playable options.
Pathfinder is the most banal "wide as an ocean deep as a puddle" example
I like how in god conversations if you're trying to put in your 5 cents they tell you to frick off.
Yeah, you learn pretty quick that the right answer is "say nothing."
Well at least Woedica apreciated that i choose her side in Pillars 1. Sorry Taos, but i am a new champion.
Always side with Hylea. It is the only ethical choice, and she is the only ethical god.
(The others are all either evil -- or are a type of "antigod" who covertly or overtly rebel against their own existence and role in society, i.e. Abydon and Eothas.)
I wish I could be a Priest of Hylea in this game, bros.
I roleplay as pragmatic power hungry person, which is trying to make as much as possible of the situation. And i dont really think Pillars setting is suitable for good and moral roleplay, cause it is gray and grim by design.
Apart from sometimes letting people come back as death knights I don’t see why Berath is evil since she just tries to keep the flow of souls running. Even hunts down people that try to keep extending their life.
>Even hunts down people that try to keep extending their life.
This is part of the reason she is so evil. She's the only god that commands you to assassinate people who have done nothing to harm you.
Even Rymrgand's assignment can be completed peacefully. Basically, all the other gods are like, "restore my temple," or "complete the ritual," or "fix the flaw in the world." Berath is like, "assassinate these people I don't like, lol."
And there's also the death knight thing.
Also: While you probably shouldn't judge people by their appearance, you probably SHOULD judge gods by their appearance if they have the ability to choose their appearance and the appearance they choose is absolutely fricking insane. Berath's aesthetics are uniquely messed up. It's like the Reapers in Mass Effect -- no matter what they say, you can tell they're evil because (1) they can look like whatever they want, (2) they decide to look evil, and (3) they make very disgusting husks and stitched-together constructs. Berath chooses to look like a creepy skeletal knight accompanied by an even creepier and insane dwarf.
Killing people isnt evil. Some people gotta go. RPG and videogames in general brainwashed people to ridiculous morals.
What is really evil is sadistic tendencies, corruption, reckless actions multiplied by influence. Killing is part and parcell of life, not a big deal at all.
It is all the more obvious how stupid the system of paladin goodness from DnD is when people try to pull it on Pillars, where good is not "without killing", but "with fewer victims and less bad conciquence", and there is a faction of paladins that kills enemies as cruelly and mercilessly as possible, because this is the most effective way to scare and stop further escalation avoid mass victims. At the same time, god patronizing the humiliated and disadvantaged is a sadist who watn havoc and massacre for the sake of it. And common people in the pillars (Dyrwoodians in first game) are lovers of massacre and genocide with or without reason. DnD morals dont work in Pillars.
>Killing people isnt evil.
So... let me get this straight... Murdering people you've never met, and who bear no hostility towards you whatsoever, isn't evil because *checks notes* they somehow managed to piss off the creepiest god in the entire pantheon, who commanded you to kill them?
Not even a real god, by the way, but some sort of post-human hivemind that has gone insane.
Anon, "killing" isn't necessarily evil, but doing Berath's bidding is absolutely evil. There's no way to justify doing Berath's bidding if you are RPing a "good" character.
Different poster, but iiirc, most of the people in question gained immortality through fricked up evil means. Yes I've never met them and they bare me no hostility directly. But that doesn't mean they aren't evil. And a force for good seeks out and destroys evil.
That being said, I agree with you overall. Berath, if forced to use dnd would be lawful evil. She wants order for its own sake and doesn't give two shits about how it is accomplished. "The wheel is good because it is good" is her world view. She isn't sentient like Eothas however. So one must treat her as one would a computer program or a conflicting set of morals. One upside of this is that whereas say the bleakwalkers are completely based in theory - ending ultimately one-sided conflicts with honorable surrender and treatment of prisoners is always better than wasting another generation of young men in futile struggle. And while using overwhelming merciless force today does result in that outcome tomorrow, they are still human. And humans are as much defined by their means as their ends. Would be shocked to find them uncorrupted by these practices and not devolve into freaks over the years unless their members are all aristotle tier. Berath on the other hand is not tainted by actions since she is a program. Still tho frick her. Also the hylea gays who think good intentions means she doesn't need to think and produces nonstop frick ups (returning the souls l after a decade, not helping eothas with hollowborn). Restored Abydon and Eothas are motivated by good. The rest aren't sentient. They are forces if evil but are not motivated by it
Abydon is based and literally didn't do anything wrong.
Abydon and Eothas are both based.
Hylea is a sweetheart.
The other gods should be kept at arms length, at best -- most should be outright scorned. Worshipping Ondra, Wael, or Woedica is literally devil worship.
More hilarious is when you just remain quiet and they either say nothing about it or compliment you for it when you just couldn't care less.
If you don’t “say nothing” you’re asking for trouble. Then again they’re fakers so frick em
>Sawyer responded with an entire blog post that broke down his duties as a design director and clarified that he had no involvement in the development of Avowed.
Frick. It's gonna be fantasy Outer Worlds.
I can't wait for the ye olde non-binary asexual NPC to get her own wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parvati_Holcomb
>non-binary asexual NPC
It’s a WRPG. LGBTQ characters are mandatory.
Damn, I wonder why hes working on that shitty cartoon medieval thing instead of the continuation of the series he created.
Is the sequel any better when it comes to writing?
Yes and no. Factions are better than what we got in the first game, but the main story is weaker. The expansions are top tier however.
Both games games expansions are decent, to the very least, then. I’ll try to force myself to play the first game past the city for the 5th time.
the main story is the faction stories (a part of the main story)
>everyone got filtered by pathfinder!
>yeah because it's bad
>a-actually they didn't get filtered, y-you're wrong!
lol
lmao
He is, believe me. This guy frustrates a lot of people here.
Is ydwin best as cipher or cipher/rogue?
Oh avowed indeed, just thinking of it if it ever exists makes me giddy.
Just by looking at outer worlds. Its gonna be homosexualrry of the highest level may even trump DragonAge.
Considering the state of Inquisition, I doubt it. DA4 is going to be a marvelous dumpster-fire that no other game will top.
Kinda funny on my favourite pc developers just became worse as time went on.
Arkane, obsidian etc.
Nah that anon is right, poe is not that bad, yeah yeah women are the same as men, but that's mostly just for character creation.
Although the amount of women in fighting positions in tyranny is a bit silly.
Unfortunately true, nu-Bioware and nu-Obsidian are same garbage, targeted and made by people who don't even play RPGs.
lol are you for real? The level of poz in POE and Pathfinder is not even comparable. Pathfinder is like a pride parade in Tel Aviv to POE's metropolitan party with some gays in attendance.
Both PoE and Pathfinder are woke manifests. If there's two games any hardcore feminist would absolutely love, it'd be PoE and Pathfinder. Both suffer from severe self-insertism.
Bullshit. Women can't understand POE. There's too much of a focus on philosophy and theology.
>Women can't understand POE
PoE players are lonely sexist incels, who'd have thunk?
Well-said.
>sexist incels
I'm married and a father btw. homosexual
Are you saying your wife would be too stupid to understand PoE? My lady could understand it. A child could. You aren't exactly being very nice to your lover here, don't you think?
Sure smells like Ricky & Morty in here.
Your boyfriend will never be a woman.
How is that even related? I believe any human being could understand PoE, regardless of their sex. I'm an openminded person. PoE is definitely not rocket science.
Yet you couldn't even understand the submarine. Oh the irony.
What?
This homie playing dumb now. Finally out of shitty arguments?
What are you talking about? I LOVE POE and HATE PATHFINDER!
Ladies and gentlemen, we got him.
NTA, but my wife couldn't understand 99% of RPGs I play - it's just thoroughly not her thing.
It's pretty mild in PoE, for real.
Pathfinder is lol-tier, though.
I think they'd be hard pressed to trump WotR in that regard, at least.
I have yet to try wotr even with suc suc romance luring.
I "liked" kingmaker but it left me bored to no end. Poe 1 at least acts like a gentlemen even with all the parts I dont like.
Most people I know couldn't even finish PoE. But you're right, Kingmaker's time system especially is all fricked up.
Shit game.
>PoE still causing this much seethe so many years later
Fricking based
comfy poe thread
The whole 5050 men and women in in fantasy has always been funny to me.
And its not something like arcanum with different stats even.
Yeah I want some fighting women companions as long as its not pallegina.
I mean opposing armies should be 99% men vs men its not even an issue. Eve normies understand that.
Except in Pillars of Eternity you get superpowers from your soul
Even still. But poe is not a big culprit, armies seem mostly men.
I only take women companions that are spellcasters, but even then it's just a concession knowing that men would still be far superior wizards. Think of the single minded focus and dedication it takes to become a powerful magic user. Not to mention the level of self-control and discipline required. Women would have emotional breakdowns and blow themselves up.
I like rogues and spies as well.
Nah some women would excel in some magical shit. Its fantasy.
Or maybe something like wheel of time where men go insane and only women can control it.
You basically favor some kind of semi-realism. Women are generally more reliable than men when it comes to intelligence, yet men are more likely to be in the highest INT group than women. It'd be interesting to have more realistic fantasy settings, compared to these safe spaces where nobody gets hurt and everyone is allowed to have fun we have nowadays.
>as long as its not pallegina
Agreed, she is probably the worst written companion in any RPG ever.
What is the good ending in deadfire?
>you have man and woman sharing a body
And Pathfinder has a man who turned himself into a woman because that's how he felt since childhood.
You're not wrong, but know where you are: this is a fanatical echochamber so you'll get some fierce fanboy resistance. But you speak the truth.
Yeah right you are not defending pathfinder
Why are you intentionally twisting the facts then?
> man and woman sharing a body
The story about Aloth is not about sexuality at all. You can swap the gender of the ancient mage and nothing meaningful would change, some cheesy jokes would be gone, that's all
Pathfinder on the other hand, well see
>deadfire has even more women in power
not true, Deadfire has how many ... like 3 "stronk whomahn!" chars?
not only pathfinder has more, but a lot of stories revolve around "mah stronk whoman not accepted by men!" narrative and it's pushed in the players face
>the whole game is about 'whoooo, colonialism'.
not true. if anything I got the feeling Sawyer's ideas is that colonialism has both benefits and risks for natives. For example, Huana caste system is shown as an abomination to modern humanism and to colonial powers as well. This is one of the reasons they see them as savages
Deadfire is essentially how you'd introduce colonialism to a kid. Kind of like cartoons that have Native American episodes and the like.
You've never played the game.
I wish. I really do.
Then why are you here?
>if anything I got the feeling Sawyer's ideas is that colonialism has both benefits and risks for natives. For example, Huana caste system is shown as an abomination to modern humanism and to colonial powers as well. This is one of the reasons they see them as savages
To add to your post, some Huana tribes see colonialism as good thing. Like the one chieftain who wants to establish a business relationship with the Vailian Trading Company. And if you side with the Royal Deadfire Company and do their quests, the endings outright portray them as making the Archipelago stronger than ever.
>the whole game is about 'whoooo, colonialism'.
What does this mean? Are you saying the game is celebrating colonialism? I don't think you are, but that's how it comes off. Did you mean to type whew instead of whoo? Because while the game doesn't celebrate colonialism it doesn't vilify it either. There's actually a lot of nuance and it's left up to the player to decide if it's good or bad. If this were a setting in a Pathfinder game you would have to be an evil alignment to side with colonialists and the game would call you a piece of shit.
>feels very inaccurate.
Maybe, but that wasn't me saying it, so not sure why you're pointing it out.
I read a lot about Faerun back in the day, but never ab out PortugalSpain equivalent Amn and Maztica.
But colonialism was probably big bad evil in faerun, but I can also just see it as just another template for DMs to do something with fantasy Aztec shit.
Golarion is a shit setting even worse than blandish Eora.
Truth be said in the end its all about how you present it ingame much like dungeon master must do.
Golarion even has isekai shit its terrible.
I really wish we had a crpg inspired by how crazy early days D&D was. I really have a hunger for classic shit. where only humans are Paladins and Elves are a fricking class.
I think it would fit crpg like a glove. I think it woudl have some success too, why dragon dogma felt kinda fresh.
>where only humans are Paladins and Elves are a fricking class.
Race locked classes feels like a relic from ancient times. I'd love to see it come back.
I am not pushing this to all systems mind you. Nor poe.
But you know what I mean. We jsut ahve to go back and redo shit. Which is why these days whenever I start a tabletop session its usually a very modified homebrew with simple classes. At least with my friends.
What we need is an RPG where you don't save the world or chat with a giant but one where you actually choose your own destiny. Whether that means becoming a king, a hero, a noble, a banditlord and so on. Tired of these tunnel-stories in a genre that is supposed to be about choices and storytelling.
Too hard for most developers. Even Owlcat games usually force you to be some le ebin hero, regardless if you're actually a bloodthirsty lunatic or tyrant.
True. Honestly it could be done, but the work is immense.
It will be nu 40k so basically a starcraft rpg.
I kinda like Kingmaker even with its issues, but the more I see about wotr the more shit it looks.
Companions look worse than deadfire. The minigame seems really shit as well.
I'm still resentful you couldn't save Qara in NWN2
God damn this is a spicy deadfire thread compared to the last two
If you start a poe thread with any kind of argument or praise it lures schizos like honey
You are both incredibly autistic. Schopenhauers most important contributions to philosophy were his opinions about women.
So true
Kek the bit about shoplifting got me. You would be met with nothing but autistic screeching for making most of these observations to a normie but the shoplifting bit is so blatant everyone knows about it. In high school whenever they'd get into groups it's a go to activity.Oddly they'd never do it in front of us and would even confess about their "friends" doing it whenever you hung out with your girlfriend one on one. And it is so strange because of how unnecessary it was. Even when I had to go on beer runs cause buying booze is illegal for teenagers in America and the law somehow expected us to spend the most physically fit and horny times our lives surrounded by hot girls being awkward instead of getting drunk and fricking, I would still leave money, despite that increasing the chances of me getting caught. For them, even the hot rich ones who could get money from parents and gifts from simps would steal shit they could just buy.
It's one of the things that made the devil of Caroc believable. Even as a soul stuck in a bronze robot, she was still the parties rogue. And although the writing with Maia's flagrant "spying" was annoying because you couldn't call her out on it, it was much easier to accept her flagrant stealing and missive dropping than it would have been if she wasn't a woman
>shut-in incel that can't shut the frick up about how much he hates life and other people
>"I relate very much to his opinions"
lmao
All the factions are the weakest part. And I cant get over it ever.
Vailians are shit, mexican Ixamitls are shit, Aumaua are even more shit. Orlans are terrible.
The dwarves look alright and the pale elves interesting. Aedyr I dont really bother anyway, really stupid names.
White march is the only part where I felt things kinda were merging together well.
And what do you hate about the factions?
The factions and their history are fine. it's just the style they went for them.
Dwarves look decent, and seem to stick to themselves while only usually going to live with the thomas sowel civilisation.
Pale elves look alright as well, they kinda give me a modern black metal wicca feel with the god of entropy shit.
Orlans are cheap kenderhobbits.
Also why are there no half breeds?
>A species is often defined as the largest group of organisms in which any two individuals of the appropriate sexes or mating types can produce fertile offspring, typically by sexual reproduction.
I'm lost what "dwarven" and "pale elves" factions are you talking about? which game 1 or 2?
The mountain dwarves dont seem to have a concrete solid nation of their own like say the half orc equivalent which I dislike.
Neither do the mexicans and pale elves but I guess that's their point.
>pale elves
Don't they have a nation in The White that Wends?
What about dwarven nations?
Unless it's a 40% dwarves situation like all the other nations which feels ridiculous.
This is what PoE says about them.
Mountain Dwarfs
>originated on the continent to the east of the Dyrwood, but have spread through the area several times before, with most of the evidence being found in remote mountain ranges
Boreal dwarfs
>originally from a southern Boreal region. Most boreal dwarves live in the remote southern island of Naasitaq, where they share the rocky tundra and snow-covered forests with migratory pale elves who drift near the shoreline and the coast-hugging ships of aumaua.
So I wanted to play Deadfire but Game Pass has no controller support? Maybe this genre just ain't for me.
Why would you play it with a controller? This is a crpg built for k&b
Keyboard and mouse feels like a desk job and they have controller support for consoles apparently
Alright never mind I uninstalled it. Back to JRPGs.
Never mind I reinstalled it. I tried copying these controls for my Xbox controller and it works decently enough. I can't replicate the radial menus that Microsoft only added for the console versions though. :/
It all just feels phoned in. The elves and dwarves especially.
The half orc equivalents have a cool background but then they look like shit.
They had no idea what they were doing, what a mess.
>Divinity Original Sin 2
Controller support
>Solasta
No controller support
>Waste Land 3
Controller support but buggy as hell
>Pillars of Eternity 1+2
NO CONTROLLER SUPPORT ON GAME PASS
Any up to date tutorial on the AI scripts in this ? I dipped my toes into it but I didn't get the results I expected, and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
no idea, also be sure to ask the same in the next thread, this one has been bumped already
>storms of poko kahara
>considered fair difficulty at level 9
>quest features multiple undodgeable fights with 7+ enemies, some of which are of level 14+
what the frick