>foxes belong to the dog family
It's not the "dog" family though, it's the "Canine" Family. Literally the same amount of relatedness that cows and sheep have.
It's not. It's Hinoarashi. Derived from the Japanese word for Porcupine, yama-arashi, and fire, hi. It could also be interpreted as hi no arashi which means storm of fire. Cyndaquil line is based on porcupines, anteaters, echidnas, and honey badgers. Not rats. Foxes are NOT in fact dogs either. They are CANIDS meaning they are in the same family but are not the same. Humans' family is Hominidae, otherwise known as great apes. This family also includes fricking gorillas and chimpanzees. Given the level of critical thinking displayed by zodiacgays, I wouldn't be surprised if most of them actually were monkeys, but the point still stands. To argue that foxes are the same as dogs as depicted in the Chinese zodiac is like trying to make the argument that humans are the same as gorillas where there is undisputable evidence that there is a difference both in modern taxonomy and ancient Chinese.
Cynda's based off the hinenezumi of folklore though.
>this shitty image again
Not every pokemon in this image is a rat and it's pretty fricking clear the minute you look at it. Togedamaru and Bidoof are prime examples, being based on hedgehogs and beavers respectively. Sandshrew/Sandslash are pangolins, pikachu line are mice (which yes, are distinct from rats you fricking troglodites.) And Cyndaquil is explained above as well as the fact that rats don't have fricking quills. The only true rat pokemon here are Rattata and Raticate. Just because it uses rodent esque pokemon does not make them all rats when most, including Cyndaquil, are definitely not. Cyndaquil signed this theory's death warrant, Fennekin dug the grave, and Fuecoco fricking buried it. It's over you fricking morons, you lost and your moronic headcanon will never be real. There is not a single argument you can provide in its favor that doesn't rely on stretching definitions, jumping to conclusions, or outright falsehood.
6 of 9. 1/3rd of your headcanon has no legs to stand on. You know how fricked the world would be if we just considered mostly correct tk be fully correct. Mostly correct is just a nice way of saying entirely incorrect.
This one is actually kinda correct because Chinks use the same word for both. "Rat" is just most common translation of that sign but "Mouse" is also correct.
A more accurate translation is "rodent". There are seperate words for Rat and Mouse IIRC. And even than Hinezumi specifically is more "that one small flaming animal thing" than "fire mouse", like how Charmander is at least partially named after the mythical dragon creature Salamander, not the small amphibian
that sounds like a you problem. the meme has been, for almost two decades, that the fire starters are based on animals of the zodiac. the denialgays are the ones complaining that they're not exact
Yep, it's been the whole bone of contention between zodiac chads and the unbelievers since Gen 5 and this shit REALLY catching fire. They can't accept creative licence and liberies and insist everything must be a 1:1 copy for them to acknowledge it.
For it to fit into the zodiac, it does need to be 1:1. There are 12 animals in the zodiac and a third of the starters have been shit outside the zodiac. Period.
[...]
How will the Zodiac Cucks Cope If Fuecoco Turns into these two in Its Final form?
They're already crying that Fuecoco is the ox because male crocodiles are called bulls. I guess that means had we gotten a fire seal starter similar to something like Bomushika from the GS Spaceworld '97 demo then that would have been categorized as the dog since their babies are called pups.
>For it to fit into the zodiac, it does need to be 1:1
Only autistic denailgays say that and they've been malding over this since 2010 and the theory first gaining prominence here.
>nuuuuuuu, it NEEDS to be exact because... IT JUST DOES REEEEEEEEEE
Change your nappy already, it's been full of shit these past 12 years.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes. It needs to be exact because that's how the fricking zodiac works you moron. There aren't asterisks with every animal saying other species can substitute. It picks out 12 specific animals, and if it's not one of those 12 specific pokemon, then the "theory" falls apart! Simple as that! Not in the zodiac is not in the zodiac! Period.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anon, Morimoto claims they made the Zodiac in Gen I+II, but they used substitutions and reimaginings (Phoenix and Raikou a non-tiger tiger, per its creator that said she wanted it to be an ambiguous beast) to fill it out, which by your metric disallows their claims. Seeing as the creators decide what's ultimately to blame for their inspirations and they claim to have been aware of Zodiac as inspiration since the earliest days AND they know it well enough to be able to play about with it (Pilloswine a wolly mammoth boar, the claimed Pig rep, per Morimoto), it looks like you're still full of shit and trying ever harder to gatekeep a foreign creative process.
Eat shit and die, you had 12 years to unautism yourself enough to see reality..
2 years ago
Anonymous
yeah, and the zodiac has been done & over with since gen 2
they already did it once, no need to do it again but infinitely more autistic and vague
2 years ago
Anonymous
You literally just proved zodiac theory wrong. Game Freak explicitly mentions the chinese zodiac in one of their games saying they were working with designs based on it for a single generation, and not once do any of the fire starters come up, which is supposedly the major zodiac inspired set of designs according to you morons. Surely Game Freak would have mentioned their grand 20+ year standing pattern with that dialogue, right? But they didn't. Almost like it doesn't exist and you were wrong the whole fricking time.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well, that's how the Zodiac works
It's not the >FOX BUT DOG BUT CANIDAE YEAR
No, it's the year of the Fox.
>nuuuuuuu, it NEEDS to be exact because... IT JUST DOES REEEEEEEEEE
Change your nappy already, it's been full of shit these past 12 years.
>zero attempt to refute anything. >A-autism! B-b-baby! Uhh, uhh, denialgay!!
The true power of a zodiacgay. Resorting to the same stretches, lies, and shitflinging to argue in circles. When your posts have degraded from trying to make flimsy points in favor of advanced patternhomosexualry to just playground level name calling, you know you've lost.
Anon, this all boils down to c**ts like you stamping your feet and squealing "i-it's n-not exatc, it's FAKE" instead of realising that while it's not on-the-nose, the intent is clearly here. Creatures based off rats and roosters, monkeys and dragons. A fox, taxonomically isn't a dog, yes. but Pokémon isn't bound by classical taxonomy, isnt beholden to our real world rules in the sligtest. A pokémon created everything, humans and pokémon married in the past (meaning they were sufficiently evolved to a point they had a concept of marrying two separate people for mutual gain) - and they decided Fire starters should be influenced by Zodiac creatures. They didn't say they MUST be fire starters, but after 9 years of pinging design ideas around for both Capsule Monsters and Pocket Monsters, I'm sure they generated enough to think picking a few for the fire starter was a good idea. Sorry you're too autistic to allow yourself to entertain the idea they can be inspired yet not have to slavishly copy something, but you're probably the same type of eejit who's still crying about rotomdex being a who series rip-off.
2 years ago
Anonymous
There is no inspiration! A third of the starters don't fall within the zodiac! The theory died in 1999 before it was even born. If they wanted ti replicate the zodiac, it would have to be exact. Pokemon, especially in this case, IS bound by real world taxonomy because the vast majority of pokemon are based on real world animals, usually depicted with some degree of accuracy as to what the real animal is like minus the elemental powers. If they wanted to make it the zodiac, they'd just fricking make it the zodiac. I can almost guarantee the people designing these monsters aren't doing the same level of mental gymnastics as zodiacgays have to do to fit them into their crumbling headcanon and they aren't confining themselves to that structure for what zodiacgays claim to be the entire series. In fact, zodiachomosexualry dies when you remember that Gold and Silver were intended to be the end of the series and that Gen 3 onward only ever happened because of its success. The chinese zodiac was never a factor here. You are genuinely schizophrenic seeing patterns where there are none if you genuinely think the pokemon with quills and elongated snout is based on a fricking rat which has neither of those qualities. You're bringing up irrelevant in-universe lore to explain why real world designers have put the constraint of using 12 and only 12 animals on themselves for the fire starters. Arceus didn't create these pokemon, a team of real world Japanese people did and they wouldn't turn down a design because it doesn't fit some autistic pattern. They would never make that long a commitment to such a shit idea and they haven't as proven by the 33% of fire starters that definitively do not fall within the Zodiac.
Hold it!
Spinosaurus looks like a crocodile.
And male crocodiles are called bulls.
And t-rexes are also related to crocodiles and in some dinosaur media male rexes are called bucks or BULLS.
So yea even if fuecoco’s final state is a rex or spino it still fits in the zodiac despite rexes and spinosaur looking nothing like a bull.
It can be a dragon though!
Like dragons are just dinosaurs with wings and….
Oh wait CHARIZARD exists….
Wait a minute CHARIZARD isn’t dragon type so CHARIZARD has liZARD in its name and snakes are related to liZARDs so CHARIZARD is a snake!
There zodiac saved.
The sheer amount of cope and mental gymnastics zodiacgays keep doing after getting BTFO by Fuecoco's very existence is truly a sight to behold.
The evo reveal is going to be one for the ages.
Broken since gen2, cyndaquil isn't a rat it's a hedgehog, broken again in gen6 with Fennekin being a fox and not a dog, now with fuecoco being a crocodile and not an ox I think people will finally accept that this was never a real theory
>with fuecoco being a crocodile and not an ox I think people will finally accept that this was never a real theory
You give zodiactrannies far too much credit. Just look at the other anon who replied to you.
Why are deniers to vehemently and emotionally invested in a fricking fun meme? every thread for years has been 50% zodiacgays having fun and theorizing about what cool starter might be next, and 50% deniers screeching about DOGS AREN'T FOXES YOU FRICKING moronS SHUT THE FRICK UP AND DIE CYNDAQUIL ISN'T A RAT
To me it just feels like people angry at themselves that they don't "get it" so they lash out at all the people having fun
>make theory >it's obviously wrong with a minute of thought applied >make huge stretches to pretend it's real >people point out that the stretches are huge >make even bigger stretches to "prove" that the first ones weren't that crazy >these are also criticized >somehow believe the deniers are the crazy, obsessive posters in this situation
You're in denial. You need to acknowledge that and start the process of moving past it.
>fictional monsters having multiple real world inspirations is considered "a huge stretch"
Stop pretending to be some elitist fact checker just because you know a species' name. Your kin never disproved a word.
>6/9 are exact matches >2/9 are close relatives >1/9 is a wild card >obviously wrong
Ok
THISSSS FRICKING THIIIISSSSS!!! ZODIAC DENIERS HAVE LESS IMAGINATION THAN GENWUNNERS!!! THEY CAN'T IMAGINE ANYTHING RESEMBLING A POKEMON PAST VOLTORB AND ELECTRODE!! THAT'S HOW CREATIVELY BANKRUPT THEY ARE!!!! THE ZODIAC IS REAL!!!! REEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAL!!!! ZODIAC CHADS STAAAAAAY WINNINGGGGGG!!!!
Autism is an incredibly strong driving factor anon and being unable to accept anything that isn't a flat-out carbon-copy of a trope is a major hint those behind them kinds of posts are autistic. Else why would they have to insist they're correct? Other anons lose arguments here all the time, yet seem able to move on and let them go. This thread'll go to archive yet again after hitting bump limit as some little 'tismo will kick start it before it all dies off to squeal about how it's not exact, so it doesn't count.
THISSSS FRICKING THIIIISSSSS!!! ZODIAC DENIERS HAVE LESS IMAGINATION THAN GENWUNNERS!!! THEY CAN'T IMAGINE ANYTHING RESEMBLING A POKEMON PAST VOLTORB AND ELECTRODE!! THAT'S HOW CREATIVELY BANKRUPT THEY ARE!!!! THE ZODIAC IS REAL!!!! REEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAL!!!! ZODIAC CHADS STAAAAAAY WINNINGGGGGG!!!!
Why doesn’t anyone tweet James Turner? He isn’t working at GameFreak anymore, he would likely know some of their design philosophy and would be able to confirm or deny if the fire starters are based on the zodiac.
He's less likely to spill what he knows, as he's still likely under NDA for the coming project (if he'd contributed to it before setting up his new shop).
We have a salamander, mustelid, and fox being called a dragon, rat, and dog respectively. So yeah, no matter what Fuecoco evolves into if it doesn't match then they'll at minimum say Fuecoco itself counts as a snake. Zodicagays don't live in reality.
>Fuecoco >literally Fire Croc mon >ZODIAC LIVES!!! HE WILL EVO INTO A FRICKING OX-ROOSTER-SNEK HYBRID!!
Oh boi can't wait to read the news where autischizos commit mass sudoku when ScarVio finally out
Electabuzz is based in a oni-japanese ogre (classic oni clothes are tiger skin), a tesla coil, a battery, and a Nue (A japanese chimera with tiger body, monkey head and snake tail)
UHHHH ELECTRIC YETIS AREN'T TIGERS
UUHHHH UHHMMM HYENAS AREN'T DOGS
EEERRRMMMM PONIES ARE DIFFERENT TO HORSES
A CHICK ISN'T A ROOSTER THIS ZODIAC IS FAKE
guaranteed replies, I guess. I owe those guys over at Ganker an apology. I've been calling them the worst board on Ganker for a long time, but this place fricking blows. if a jannie reads this, just ban me from /vp/. thanks in advance.
There's no point really arguing it.
Antizodiacgays are so set on their ways.
And Zodiacgays are set on theirs.
You will never agree on the dog/rat thing.
And depending on how fuecoco comes out, they will never agree on the that either.
At this point these threads are just screaming at each other with no real discussion or anything worth while to talk about. We go over the same 2-3 talking points again and again.
Personally, I'm a zodiacgay because I think it's Close enough to count. With the stipulation of gen 1-3 probably not being intentional for the theory.
I will wait to see how Fuecoco evolves to really have my final thoughts on it all.
But the question back to heavy anti zodiacs is this.
If fuecoco turns snake like, Not a full on snake. But snake like.
Would you give credit to the theory.
And if not, would the future games have to hold, a horse, sheep and ox. Or would the 2-3 bumps in the theory keep you on your conclusion.
If Fuecoco is serpentine nobody can argue anymore as it seals the deal completely. If his evo is not close to serpent, then majority of zodiacgays will have nothing to stand on to keep believing it. It really is the one deciding factor.
I can agree to this.
What's the level of snake required.
I think what you posted here, or something that looks like a fire dunsparce i'd be fine with it.
If it's short bodies, has all 4 legs or is just a long crocodile It's over.
It’s needs to be a snake. No legs, no arms, a snake.
If it evolves into a serpentine dragon, that makes it a dragon and the theory breaks again and will be argued for another 3-4 years
>Personally, I'm a zodiacgay because I think it's Close enough to count. With the stipulation of gen 1-3 probably not being intentional for the theory.
At the very least Gen 2 was debunked, which makes perfect sense as they were supposed to be the last games anyways.
I wonder how the zodiac cucks would try to spin a Fire type Pokèmon stater that becomes a t-rex in It's Final Form.
How can you fit the T-rex In to a zodiac?
>i wonder if the theory being disproven would disprove the theory
work with the source material we have currently, anon. they all are based on the zodiac either primarily or secondarily
If they are going to make Fuecoco evolve into some kind of dinosaur, I'd like to have it turn into some kind of Spinosaurus (since Fuecoco is the "Fire Croc" Pokemon, and Spinosaurus are kind of crocodilian).
If they are going to make Fuecoco evolve into some kind of dinosaur, I'd like to have it turn into some kind of Spinosaurus (since Fuecoco is the "Fire Croc" Pokemon, and Spinosaurus are kind of crocodilian).
How will the Zodiac Cucks Cope If Fuecoco Turns into these two in Its Final form?
Oh that's easy. >Dinosaurs are what dragons were based on >While the dragon slot is already taken, eastern dragons have a distinct snake-like bodies >T-rex is a snake.
Zodiac theory is fun, so if Fuecoco becomes a rooster/croc/ snake looking thing, or a dragon looking thing I'm still sticking with the theory, people with a stuck up their butts be damned
this will be the ultimate cope from patterngays
they can pretend that a charmander is a dragon
they can pretend that cyndaquil is a rat, but they cannot pretend that this goofy looking motherfricker is a snake, ox, horse, or goat without looking like an embarassment. that is, without looking like more of an embarassment than they already are. it'll be delicious.
why do you idiots keep saying Fennekin is the dog from the lunar zodiac? Fennekin is the FOX from the lunar zodiac.
The fox was told to meet for the great race to determine the order of the zodiac, but the emperor told the fox the wrong location because he knew the fox would cheat.
>"nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu, you're wrong and we're right"
Series runs off inspirational ideas though. Remoraid and Octillery wouldn't exist, if Game Freak didn't try to make a fish and octopus out of a gun and tank. Which proves Zodiac doesn't NEED to be a carbon-copy to exist or indeed for people to see the inspiration (as this place was calling out Remoraid as a gun back when this place first opened).
We have had official statements of the inspirations of half of the fire starters and the zodiac has never been mentioned. Multiple starters are explicitly non-zodiac animals. Insisting that they aren't a part of the zodiac because the theory is real is insanity. If your "proof" of the theory only works if the theory is real, then it
Is
Not
Proof.
If direct evidence against something is brought up in the same context, it generally means that thing is not true.
That would be like asking the world's scientists what shape the earth is, and then deciding that it MUST be flat because they replied that it was round, but there is other "evidence" for it being flat.
It'd have to be an animal where it'd be beyond a shadow of a doubt not part of or connected to the Zodiac in some way.
For instance, if they had made it so Incineroar turned into a lion instead of a tiger, that would probably do it. Maybe have a Fire-starter be bear-themed. Or bats.
While we're on the subject, what would it take for you and the other anti-Zodiacgays to give the Zodiac theory some credence?
>Beyond a shadow of a doubt >Incineroar being a lion >Not Feucoco being a Crocodile
But to answer your question, one of these things to happen >Typhlosion, Delphox, and Feucoco designs are retconned making them resemble a Mouse, Dog, and Snake >GameFreak themselves admits to the Chinese Zodiac being real >Some Documents are leaked explicitly showing that all Fire Starters are based on the Chinese Zodiac >A Zodiacgay does Regression on all starter types, comparing how like a starter is based on just a popular animal, themes around it (Typhlosion = Volcano, Feucoco = Pepper, ect), the mythology behind it, and anything else that could be considered a factor in making a starter
One of those 4 things happen, then I’ll accept the Zodiac theory.
>spend years insisting that Cyndaquil must be a rant >hedgehog right there >only coming to alternate zodiacs now because you don't have a stretch for Fuecoco
Changing your theory now only makes your past arguments even worse and more ridiculously inconsistent.
I'm not changing anything you nignog.
I'm just pointing out that "Mouse" is still correct for your standard Chinese zodiac because the sign can literally mean both. It's that your burgerland translation (one that Japanese company is not caring about!) is not that complex.
>I'm not changing anything >well actually Fuecoco definitely fits because a crocodile is in other zodiacs even though we always only talked about the chinese one before! >not changing anything
cyndaquil has literally 0 rat qualities. it isn't even a rodent. and no, the pokedex does not count, wooper is not a fish despite what the pokedex says.
>muh year of the rat art >with sandshrew and bidoof
artist just wanted more pokemon in his art besides rattata and just chose ones based on pokedex entries or just look rodent-esque
this is not good evidence, and it never will be
Here's what happened for all the morons >zodiac inspirations were not a conscious thing for the first three generations >after torchic , some fan recognized the coincidence >sense then, IT HAS 100% BEEN IN THE MINDS OF THE DESIGNERS. chimchar, tepig, fennekin, litten, and scorbunny don't just happen to align with the zodiac on mere chance
Fuecoco is the white dragon horse (Bai Longma) from journey to the west, like how emboar and infernape are journey to the west characters. This fits the zodiac and the type themes because Bai Longma breathes fire, but also lives in the water like a crocodile. Fuecoco also resembles an apple which horses love to snack on, and he has horse hoove like feet.
It's fair to say loosely based on the zodiac bla bla bla.
If it remains a straight up crocodile, shit's over, the bull theory is stupid.
Zodiac is a decent theory. Since there are hundreds of creatures they could have done, or repeated in order to break the pattern right out. But if they wanted to break it with Fenekin, why did they go straight to rabbit.
I'm more convinced by the zodiacgays than the antis.
You sum up my thoughts pretty well. I'm not denying it could be a coincidence, but it lines up SO well at this point that it feels like there has to be some intention behind it. Not like the zodiac is something that would be a foreign idea to the designers of these Pokémon.
Because it's a blatantly desperate attempt at coping by rewriting your theory when it doesn't work.
If you were always using every zodiac, you wouldn't have spent years claiming Fennekin was a dog or Cyndaquil was a rat. Changing now is an admission of defeat.
For me, as long as I can kinda squint at it and see it, its close enough, Nothing is ever gonna be exact in this game. It might turn into some kinda horned croc/bull thing which I would count or an Aztec Dragon serpent thing.
loses arms when it evolves like serperior
alternatively, it's going to be a creepy scaly ox or creepy scaly horse considering what it's based on
Serperior has arms, anon. Is this the full power of a zodiacgay's IQ?
>Creepy scaly ox
>Creepy scaly horse
Its gonna be the dragon horse from journey to the west, to match infernape and emboar
Can you please stop trying to force this.
The Pokedex explicitly calls the Delphox line FOXES NOT FRICKING DOGS.
Fox's are a type of dog, same reason Cyndaquil is considered a Rat/Mouse despite evolving into a Badger
>Fox's are a type of dog
And sheep are cows. The zodiac itself denies that argument,
>sheep are cows
The family is called bovid. Sheep are bovid. Cows are bovid. It's not the sheep family or the cow family.
Foxes belong to the dog family. All members of the family are dogs.
>using modern taxa to explain 3000 years old ancient Chinese method of animal classification
Holy mother of cope
>foxes belong to the dog family
It's not the "dog" family though, it's the "Canine" Family. Literally the same amount of relatedness that cows and sheep have.
Don't be a moron. For chinese, sheep is sheep, cow is cow, dog is dog, fox is fox.
Russian like levels of cope
>antizodiacgays are globohomosexual supporters
Like pottery. I bet you're ~~*vaccinated*~~ too
Cyndaquil is an echinda, like Kunckles
Cynda's based off the hinenezumi of folklore though.
Cyndaquil's name in japanese is literally "fire rat" or something.
It's not. It's Hinoarashi. Derived from the Japanese word for Porcupine, yama-arashi, and fire, hi. It could also be interpreted as hi no arashi which means storm of fire. Cyndaquil line is based on porcupines, anteaters, echidnas, and honey badgers. Not rats. Foxes are NOT in fact dogs either. They are CANIDS meaning they are in the same family but are not the same. Humans' family is Hominidae, otherwise known as great apes. This family also includes fricking gorillas and chimpanzees. Given the level of critical thinking displayed by zodiacgays, I wouldn't be surprised if most of them actually were monkeys, but the point still stands. To argue that foxes are the same as dogs as depicted in the Chinese zodiac is like trying to make the argument that humans are the same as gorillas where there is undisputable evidence that there is a difference both in modern taxonomy and ancient Chinese.
>this shitty image again
Not every pokemon in this image is a rat and it's pretty fricking clear the minute you look at it. Togedamaru and Bidoof are prime examples, being based on hedgehogs and beavers respectively. Sandshrew/Sandslash are pangolins, pikachu line are mice (which yes, are distinct from rats you fricking troglodites.) And Cyndaquil is explained above as well as the fact that rats don't have fricking quills. The only true rat pokemon here are Rattata and Raticate. Just because it uses rodent esque pokemon does not make them all rats when most, including Cyndaquil, are definitely not. Cyndaquil signed this theory's death warrant, Fennekin dug the grave, and Fuecoco fricking buried it. It's over you fricking morons, you lost and your moronic headcanon will never be real. There is not a single argument you can provide in its favor that doesn't rely on stretching definitions, jumping to conclusions, or outright falsehood.
Looks like Game Freak don't care about semantics like you son.
Wolverine. Typhlosion is a wolverine. Linoone is a badger.
>implying owls are birds
foxes are canids
Yeah, so does that mean Fuecoco is a snake? Because crocodiles are reptiles like snakes
>eight (8) gens were the fire starters fits perfectly in the chinese zodiac
> FoRCinG
6 of 9. 1/3rd of your headcanon has no legs to stand on. You know how fricked the world would be if we just considered mostly correct tk be fully correct. Mostly correct is just a nice way of saying entirely incorrect.
>Dog is a fox
>Dragon is a lizard
You forgot the "mouse is rat" too
This one is actually kinda correct because Chinks use the same word for both. "Rat" is just most common translation of that sign but "Mouse" is also correct.
A more accurate translation is "rodent". There are seperate words for Rat and Mouse IIRC. And even than Hinezumi specifically is more "that one small flaming animal thing" than "fire mouse", like how Charmander is at least partially named after the mythical dragon creature Salamander, not the small amphibian
Yes, dragons are magical lizards thanks for your insight.
Just wait for his evolved forms
You can make the argument that Charmander isn't a dragon until he evolves
Charizard isn't a chinese dragon either but oh well you can keep coping as usual
>pokemon designs can't have loose inspirations based on more than one thing
>they must always be 1:1 recreations of actual animals
do autismos really?
Saying "it's this exact thing!" and then backpedaling to "it's LOOSELY based on this thing!" just shows how dishonest your arguments are.
that sounds like a you problem. the meme has been, for almost two decades, that the fire starters are based on animals of the zodiac. the denialgays are the ones complaining that they're not exact
>Denialgays
Zodiacucks just invented a slur for people who aren't schizoids
t. schizo
>THAT FOX IS A DOG LMAO
????
see
>Moving the goalposts
Concession accepted
newbie
Yep, it's been the whole bone of contention between zodiac chads and the unbelievers since Gen 5 and this shit REALLY catching fire. They can't accept creative licence and liberies and insist everything must be a 1:1 copy for them to acknowledge it.
Why are you replying to your own post?
Why are you filtering yourself, 'tismo?
Nice shop, now answer the question
For it to fit into the zodiac, it does need to be 1:1. There are 12 animals in the zodiac and a third of the starters have been shit outside the zodiac. Period.
They're already crying that Fuecoco is the ox because male crocodiles are called bulls. I guess that means had we gotten a fire seal starter similar to something like Bomushika from the GS Spaceworld '97 demo then that would have been categorized as the dog since their babies are called pups.
>For it to fit into the zodiac, it does need to be 1:1
Only autistic denailgays say that and they've been malding over this since 2010 and the theory first gaining prominence here.
>Zodiacuck stretching
>nuuuuuuu, it NEEDS to be exact because... IT JUST DOES REEEEEEEEEE
Change your nappy already, it's been full of shit these past 12 years.
Yes. It needs to be exact because that's how the fricking zodiac works you moron. There aren't asterisks with every animal saying other species can substitute. It picks out 12 specific animals, and if it's not one of those 12 specific pokemon, then the "theory" falls apart! Simple as that! Not in the zodiac is not in the zodiac! Period.
Anon, Morimoto claims they made the Zodiac in Gen I+II, but they used substitutions and reimaginings (Phoenix and Raikou a non-tiger tiger, per its creator that said she wanted it to be an ambiguous beast) to fill it out, which by your metric disallows their claims. Seeing as the creators decide what's ultimately to blame for their inspirations and they claim to have been aware of Zodiac as inspiration since the earliest days AND they know it well enough to be able to play about with it (Pilloswine a wolly mammoth boar, the claimed Pig rep, per Morimoto), it looks like you're still full of shit and trying ever harder to gatekeep a foreign creative process.
Eat shit and die, you had 12 years to unautism yourself enough to see reality..
yeah, and the zodiac has been done & over with since gen 2
they already did it once, no need to do it again but infinitely more autistic and vague
You literally just proved zodiac theory wrong. Game Freak explicitly mentions the chinese zodiac in one of their games saying they were working with designs based on it for a single generation, and not once do any of the fire starters come up, which is supposedly the major zodiac inspired set of designs according to you morons. Surely Game Freak would have mentioned their grand 20+ year standing pattern with that dialogue, right? But they didn't. Almost like it doesn't exist and you were wrong the whole fricking time.
Well, that's how the Zodiac works
It's not the
>FOX BUT DOG BUT CANIDAE YEAR
No, it's the year of the Fox.
>zero attempt to refute anything.
>A-autism! B-b-baby! Uhh, uhh, denialgay!!
The true power of a zodiacgay. Resorting to the same stretches, lies, and shitflinging to argue in circles. When your posts have degraded from trying to make flimsy points in favor of advanced patternhomosexualry to just playground level name calling, you know you've lost.
>taking bait sine 2000
>I-I was just baiting! I'm not actually moronic, I swear!
Zodiacgays, everyone.
Now you're getting there
Anon, this all boils down to c**ts like you stamping your feet and squealing "i-it's n-not exatc, it's FAKE" instead of realising that while it's not on-the-nose, the intent is clearly here. Creatures based off rats and roosters, monkeys and dragons. A fox, taxonomically isn't a dog, yes. but Pokémon isn't bound by classical taxonomy, isnt beholden to our real world rules in the sligtest. A pokémon created everything, humans and pokémon married in the past (meaning they were sufficiently evolved to a point they had a concept of marrying two separate people for mutual gain) - and they decided Fire starters should be influenced by Zodiac creatures. They didn't say they MUST be fire starters, but after 9 years of pinging design ideas around for both Capsule Monsters and Pocket Monsters, I'm sure they generated enough to think picking a few for the fire starter was a good idea. Sorry you're too autistic to allow yourself to entertain the idea they can be inspired yet not have to slavishly copy something, but you're probably the same type of eejit who's still crying about rotomdex being a who series rip-off.
There is no inspiration! A third of the starters don't fall within the zodiac! The theory died in 1999 before it was even born. If they wanted ti replicate the zodiac, it would have to be exact. Pokemon, especially in this case, IS bound by real world taxonomy because the vast majority of pokemon are based on real world animals, usually depicted with some degree of accuracy as to what the real animal is like minus the elemental powers. If they wanted to make it the zodiac, they'd just fricking make it the zodiac. I can almost guarantee the people designing these monsters aren't doing the same level of mental gymnastics as zodiacgays have to do to fit them into their crumbling headcanon and they aren't confining themselves to that structure for what zodiacgays claim to be the entire series. In fact, zodiachomosexualry dies when you remember that Gold and Silver were intended to be the end of the series and that Gen 3 onward only ever happened because of its success. The chinese zodiac was never a factor here. You are genuinely schizophrenic seeing patterns where there are none if you genuinely think the pokemon with quills and elongated snout is based on a fricking rat which has neither of those qualities. You're bringing up irrelevant in-universe lore to explain why real world designers have put the constraint of using 12 and only 12 animals on themselves for the fire starters. Arceus didn't create these pokemon, a team of real world Japanese people did and they wouldn't turn down a design because it doesn't fit some autistic pattern. They would never make that long a commitment to such a shit idea and they haven't as proven by the 33% of fire starters that definitively do not fall within the Zodiac.
Hold it!
Spinosaurus looks like a crocodile.
And male crocodiles are called bulls.
And t-rexes are also related to crocodiles and in some dinosaur media male rexes are called bucks or BULLS.
So yea even if fuecoco’s final state is a rex or spino it still fits in the zodiac despite rexes and spinosaur looking nothing like a bull.
It can be a dragon though!
Like dragons are just dinosaurs with wings and….
Oh wait CHARIZARD exists….
Wait a minute CHARIZARD isn’t dragon type so CHARIZARD has liZARD in its name and snakes are related to liZARDs so CHARIZARD is a snake!
There zodiac saved.
The sheer amount of cope and mental gymnastics zodiacgays keep doing after getting BTFO by Fuecoco's very existence is truly a sight to behold.
The evo reveal is going to be one for the ages.
Broken since gen2, cyndaquil isn't a rat it's a hedgehog, broken again in gen6 with Fennekin being a fox and not a dog, now with fuecoco being a crocodile and not an ox I think people will finally accept that this was never a real theory
cyndaquil is a rat you moron
>with fuecoco being a crocodile and not an ox I think people will finally accept that this was never a real theory
You give zodiactrannies far too much credit. Just look at the other anon who replied to you.
Why are deniers to vehemently and emotionally invested in a fricking fun meme? every thread for years has been 50% zodiacgays having fun and theorizing about what cool starter might be next, and 50% deniers screeching about DOGS AREN'T FOXES YOU FRICKING moronS SHUT THE FRICK UP AND DIE CYNDAQUIL ISN'T A RAT
To me it just feels like people angry at themselves that they don't "get it" so they lash out at all the people having fun
>make theory
>it's obviously wrong with a minute of thought applied
>make huge stretches to pretend it's real
>people point out that the stretches are huge
>make even bigger stretches to "prove" that the first ones weren't that crazy
>these are also criticized
>somehow believe the deniers are the crazy, obsessive posters in this situation
You're in denial. You need to acknowledge that and start the process of moving past it.
>fictional monsters having multiple real world inspirations is considered "a huge stretch"
Stop pretending to be some elitist fact checker just because you know a species' name. Your kin never disproved a word.
>6/9 are exact matches
>2/9 are close relatives
>1/9 is a wild card
>obviously wrong
Ok
You are proving him right anon
>Exact matches
Charmander and Fennekin are already 2 stretches out of the 9 available.
Autism is an incredibly strong driving factor anon and being unable to accept anything that isn't a flat-out carbon-copy of a trope is a major hint those behind them kinds of posts are autistic. Else why would they have to insist they're correct? Other anons lose arguments here all the time, yet seem able to move on and let them go. This thread'll go to archive yet again after hitting bump limit as some little 'tismo will kick start it before it all dies off to squeal about how it's not exact, so it doesn't count.
Why are you replying to your own post again?
Because they never shut up. Fuecoco comes out and a million gays go "here's how he can be a snake!"
THISSSS FRICKING THIIIISSSSS!!! ZODIAC DENIERS HAVE LESS IMAGINATION THAN GENWUNNERS!!! THEY CAN'T IMAGINE ANYTHING RESEMBLING A POKEMON PAST VOLTORB AND ELECTRODE!! THAT'S HOW CREATIVELY BANKRUPT THEY ARE!!!! THE ZODIAC IS REAL!!!! REEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAL!!!! ZODIAC CHADS STAAAAAAY WINNINGGGGGG!!!!
Antizodiacgays need to falseflag better. ZodiacCHADS would never complain aimlessly but debate with facts and logic
>they don't "get it"
HOLY COPE
IT WILL BE A SNAKE AND WHEN IT DOES DENIERS WILL FINALLY KNEEL FOR THE FINAL TIME
Why doesn’t anyone tweet James Turner? He isn’t working at GameFreak anymore, he would likely know some of their design philosophy and would be able to confirm or deny if the fire starters are based on the zodiac.
I’d do it but I deleted twitter.
He's less likely to spill what he knows, as he's still likely under NDA for the coming project (if he'd contributed to it before setting up his new shop).
It will be a crocodile and Zodiacschizos will say it counts as a snake because it’s a reptile.
We have a salamander, mustelid, and fox being called a dragon, rat, and dog respectively. So yeah, no matter what Fuecoco evolves into if it doesn't match then they'll at minimum say Fuecoco itself counts as a snake. Zodicagays don't live in reality.
It's literally going to be a rooster, effectively giving us a buffer generation before we get another new one next gen.
Zodiacbros literally can. not. stop. winning.
>Fuecoco
>literally Fire Croc mon
>ZODIAC LIVES!!! HE WILL EVO INTO A FRICKING OX-ROOSTER-SNEK HYBRID!!
Oh boi can't wait to read the news where autischizos commit mass sudoku when ScarVio finally out
Most people are just joking
I doubt it. When Hitler tried to invade Russia and then failed, did he say "just joking lol"?
Just a prank bro
Did Biden kill himself when USA pulled out of Afghanistan?
>hitler sudoku'ed because he lost to Russia
Mutts educashion
So Masuda is going to escape to the Patagonia in a submarine when SV flops?
>HE IS ALIVE I SWEAR
Nope, "Mutts educashion" actually wipe any Russian contribution from WW2, and pretend the only reason WW2 was won is because Americans intervened.
And russki eduxsion literally wiped out all countries other then ruSSia and Germany. Most ruSSkis don't even know it was a world war.
Godwin's law
You'll see how stupid and wrong you currently are, in time.
You'll see how stupid and wrong you currently are, in time.
>autistic biologist screeching in a child's fantasy game series
Is that a title of the latest light novel?
Why do Zodiacgays complain so much, if they already have an official zodiac in Unova and an official Chinese Zodiac?
They call Electabuzz a tiger, but we can't call the Fennekin line a dog?
Electabuzz is based in a oni-japanese ogre (classic oni clothes are tiger skin), a tesla coil, a battery, and a Nue (A japanese chimera with tiger body, monkey head and snake tail)
That looks more different from Electabuzz than Fennekin does to my actual dog.
Dude, your dog is a fennekin
The real problem is Poochyena
>Hyenas are dogs
Does TCPI even know what a dog is at this point?
UHHHH ELECTRIC YETIS AREN'T TIGERS
UUHHHH UHHMMM HYENAS AREN'T DOGS
EEERRRMMMM PONIES ARE DIFFERENT TO HORSES
A CHICK ISN'T A ROOSTER THIS ZODIAC IS FAKE
Bring US politics to a pokemon board. What a fricking moron.
I will concede if any of you can convince me that "Fantastic Mr. Dog" is a more fitting title for the 2009 animated film.
IT gonna become a dinosaur with two horns and people will say its a bull.
Which makes sense considering is set on spainish country
>becomes a wieneratrice
>half rooster, half snake/dragon
triple win I guess?
guaranteed replies, I guess. I owe those guys over at Ganker an apology. I've been calling them the worst board on Ganker for a long time, but this place fricking blows. if a jannie reads this, just ban me from /vp/. thanks in advance.
There's no point really arguing it.
Antizodiacgays are so set on their ways.
And Zodiacgays are set on theirs.
You will never agree on the dog/rat thing.
And depending on how fuecoco comes out, they will never agree on the that either.
At this point these threads are just screaming at each other with no real discussion or anything worth while to talk about. We go over the same 2-3 talking points again and again.
Personally, I'm a zodiacgay because I think it's Close enough to count. With the stipulation of gen 1-3 probably not being intentional for the theory.
I will wait to see how Fuecoco evolves to really have my final thoughts on it all.
But the question back to heavy anti zodiacs is this.
If fuecoco turns snake like, Not a full on snake. But snake like.
Would you give credit to the theory.
And if not, would the future games have to hold, a horse, sheep and ox. Or would the 2-3 bumps in the theory keep you on your conclusion.
>depending on how fuecoco comes out
Depending on? No, "regardless of".
If Fuecoco is serpentine nobody can argue anymore as it seals the deal completely. If his evo is not close to serpent, then majority of zodiacgays will have nothing to stand on to keep believing it. It really is the one deciding factor.
I can agree to this.
What's the level of snake required.
I think what you posted here, or something that looks like a fire dunsparce i'd be fine with it.
If it's short bodies, has all 4 legs or is just a long crocodile It's over.
Except foxes aren't dogs and porcupines aren't rats so really then haven't had a leg to stand on since the late 90s.
It’s needs to be a snake. No legs, no arms, a snake.
If it evolves into a serpentine dragon, that makes it a dragon and the theory breaks again and will be argued for another 3-4 years
You lost child.
So Serperior isn't a snake?
more like a legless lizard but has tiny miney hands in it's back
>Personally, I'm a zodiacgay because I think it's Close enough to count. With the stipulation of gen 1-3 probably not being intentional for the theory.
At the very least Gen 2 was debunked, which makes perfect sense as they were supposed to be the last games anyways.
SNAKE WITH WINGS
Bruh, you don't know that the REAL ancient chinese zodiac included pepper?
I wonder how the zodiac cucks would try to spin a Fire type Pokèmon stater that becomes a t-rex in It's Final Form.
How can you fit the T-rex In to a zodiac?
>i wonder if the theory being disproven would disprove the theory
work with the source material we have currently, anon. they all are based on the zodiac either primarily or secondarily
If they are going to make Fuecoco evolve into some kind of dinosaur, I'd like to have it turn into some kind of Spinosaurus (since Fuecoco is the "Fire Croc" Pokemon, and Spinosaurus are kind of crocodilian).
How will the Zodiac Cucks Cope If Fuecoco Turns into these two in Its Final form?
Oh that's easy.
>Dinosaurs are what dragons were based on
>While the dragon slot is already taken, eastern dragons have a distinct snake-like bodies
>T-rex is a snake.
She's gonna be a snek according to several leakers and insiders
We'll just have to wait and see. We've had it before where we've had fake leaks (some more subtle or more obvious than others).
just put it in snake, it's basically a reptile category
problem solved, ez
ZodiacBlack folk…we are being exposed as moronic trannies…
It become horse
It's gonna be an Ox, my man
Why would a serpentine Fuecoco be counted as a snake and not a dragon?
Zodiac theory is fun, so if Fuecoco becomes a rooster/croc/ snake looking thing, or a dragon looking thing I'm still sticking with the theory, people with a stuck up their butts be damned
this will be the ultimate cope from patterngays
they can pretend that a charmander is a dragon
they can pretend that cyndaquil is a rat, but they cannot pretend that this goofy looking motherfricker is a snake, ox, horse, or goat without looking like an embarassment. that is, without looking like more of an embarassment than they already are. it'll be delicious.
Make crocs are bulls. It just works.
why do you idiots keep saying Fennekin is the dog from the lunar zodiac? Fennekin is the FOX from the lunar zodiac.
The fox was told to meet for the great race to determine the order of the zodiac, but the emperor told the fox the wrong location because he knew the fox would cheat.
So... Fennekin, a fox, is very specifically not a zodiac animal.
Don’t worry, with how gay the other choices are
It’ll become GOAT
t. Fuecoco
Zodiac theory was already debunked by Khu.
>"nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu, you're wrong and we're right"
Series runs off inspirational ideas though. Remoraid and Octillery wouldn't exist, if Game Freak didn't try to make a fish and octopus out of a gun and tank. Which proves Zodiac doesn't NEED to be a carbon-copy to exist or indeed for people to see the inspiration (as this place was calling out Remoraid as a gun back when this place first opened).
We have had official statements of the inspirations of half of the fire starters and the zodiac has never been mentioned. Multiple starters are explicitly non-zodiac animals. Insisting that they aren't a part of the zodiac because the theory is real is insanity. If your "proof" of the theory only works if the theory is real, then it
Is
Not
Proof.
>if something isn't brought up randomly it isn't true
If direct evidence against something is brought up in the same context, it generally means that thing is not true.
That would be like asking the world's scientists what shape the earth is, and then deciding that it MUST be flat because they replied that it was round, but there is other "evidence" for it being flat.
It wasn't said so it's still true. Cope
To all the Zodiacgays in this thread.
What would it take for you to stop believing in the Zodiac theory?
It'd have to be an animal where it'd be beyond a shadow of a doubt not part of or connected to the Zodiac in some way.
For instance, if they had made it so Incineroar turned into a lion instead of a tiger, that would probably do it. Maybe have a Fire-starter be bear-themed. Or bats.
While we're on the subject, what would it take for you and the other anti-Zodiacgays to give the Zodiac theory some credence?
time travel
We've already HAD a starter that was undeniably not a zodiac animal, or multiple depending on what translation of Cyndaquil's name you use.
>Beyond a shadow of a doubt
>Incineroar being a lion
>Not Feucoco being a Crocodile
But to answer your question, one of these things to happen
>Typhlosion, Delphox, and Feucoco designs are retconned making them resemble a Mouse, Dog, and Snake
>GameFreak themselves admits to the Chinese Zodiac being real
>Some Documents are leaked explicitly showing that all Fire Starters are based on the Chinese Zodiac
>A Zodiacgay does Regression on all starter types, comparing how like a starter is based on just a popular animal, themes around it (Typhlosion = Volcano, Feucoco = Pepper, ect), the mythology behind it, and anything else that could be considered a factor in making a starter
One of those 4 things happen, then I’ll accept the Zodiac theory.
It's just different version of Chinese zodiac.
>spend years insisting that Cyndaquil must be a rant
>hedgehog right there
>only coming to alternate zodiacs now because you don't have a stretch for Fuecoco
Changing your theory now only makes your past arguments even worse and more ridiculously inconsistent.
I'm not changing anything you nignog.
I'm just pointing out that "Mouse" is still correct for your standard Chinese zodiac because the sign can literally mean both. It's that your burgerland translation (one that Japanese company is not caring about!) is not that complex.
>I'm not changing anything
>well actually Fuecoco definitely fits because a crocodile is in other zodiacs even though we always only talked about the chinese one before!
>not changing anything
>NOOO IT CAN'T REPRESENT A RODENT UNLESS IT'S LITERALLY PIC RELATED
>IS THAT MORE THAN ONE CONCEPT IN A DESIGN?? I'M GOING INSANE AAAAAAHHH
Imagine how bland Pokemon would be if made by the anti zodiac morons, thank frick none of you work in game design
while all rats are rodents does, not all rodents are rats
pardon my moronation here, took me a few tries to articulate what i was trying to say
cyndaquil has literally 0 rat qualities. it isn't even a rodent. and no, the pokedex does not count, wooper is not a fish despite what the pokedex says.
>GF uses it for year of the Rat art
oh no no noo
>muh year of the rat art
>with sandshrew and bidoof
artist just wanted more pokemon in his art besides rattata and just chose ones based on pokedex entries or just look rodent-esque
this is not good evidence, and it never will be
cyndaquil is also in a year of the zodiac drawing with only 3 pokemon lol
nta but do you have the drawing?
>source: my ass
I've seen this too.
then post it, homosexual
HOLY COPING BATMAN
Cope.
Post the year of rat image then coward
>final evo based on naga jolokia
>hybrid crocodile/serpent with arms
>i-it's akshually a s-snake
Charmander is the snake (it's not a dragon type)
Fuecoco is the dragon
Here's what happened for all the morons
>zodiac inspirations were not a conscious thing for the first three generations
>after torchic , some fan recognized the coincidence
>sense then, IT HAS 100% BEEN IN THE MINDS OF THE DESIGNERS. chimchar, tepig, fennekin, litten, and scorbunny don't just happen to align with the zodiac on mere chance
Fuecoco is the white dragon horse (Bai Longma) from journey to the west, like how emboar and infernape are journey to the west characters. This fits the zodiac and the type themes because Bai Longma breathes fire, but also lives in the water like a crocodile. Fuecoco also resembles an apple which horses love to snack on, and he has horse hoove like feet.
>It's the dragon horse from Journey to the west
Would be kinda cool, know exactly who I'd name mine after.
it all comes down to fuecoco's evolutions.
It's fair to say loosely based on the zodiac bla bla bla.
If it remains a straight up crocodile, shit's over, the bull theory is stupid.
Zodiac is a decent theory. Since there are hundreds of creatures they could have done, or repeated in order to break the pattern right out. But if they wanted to break it with Fenekin, why did they go straight to rabbit.
I'm more convinced by the zodiacgays than the antis.
You sum up my thoughts pretty well. I'm not denying it could be a coincidence, but it lines up SO well at this point that it feels like there has to be some intention behind it. Not like the zodiac is something that would be a foreign idea to the designers of these Pokémon.
It's a wieneratrice, likely with serpent motifs.
why do you insist on ignoring pic related?
Because it's a blatantly desperate attempt at coping by rewriting your theory when it doesn't work.
If you were always using every zodiac, you wouldn't have spent years claiming Fennekin was a dog or Cyndaquil was a rat. Changing now is an admission of defeat.
>Fennekin was a dog or Cyndaquil was a rat
Correct
According to your logic, your mother is a monkey
I love it when pattergays get btfo
I can't wait to nakadashi and bukkake on this thread once the game is out
For me, as long as I can kinda squint at it and see it, its close enough, Nothing is ever gonna be exact in this game. It might turn into some kinda horned croc/bull thing which I would count or an Aztec Dragon serpent thing.
That being said I don't really care about the Zodiac thing if it breaks I'm not gonna lose my mind or whatever