Unfortunately most of those builds are "Choose single attack to max, get all the passives from both classes to make that attack better or get some defence"
>Even with all that Grim Dawn is still terribly boring. How did they manage to frick up fun in a video game?
Because trhey completely misunderstood what people liked about Diablo 1 and 2.
Grim Dawn is the best ARPG on the market. Let literal mouthbreathing morons chew up the shit Blizzard excretes.
It's not. The world looks and is bland as shit. The "story" and characters are throwaway. The world is generic. The music is forgettable.
Enemy designs and bosses are generic and forgettable. Quests are boring as shit.
So what you're left with are a number of bland classes that just boil down to appealing to min-max build autism, while being boring as frick to play.
I don't think any of them post Diablo 2 are particularly good.
But I guess if you want something new try Shadows Awakening, since that at least looks good and does some interesting things since you're a soul devouring demon that consumes heroes souls.
Atmosphere
Music
Visuals
Tone
Simple, but well told narrative with good VO and nice cutscenes
For Diablo 1 the gameplay was fresh and a iti different
For Diablo 2, there was a lot of possible experimentation with all the classes, builds and loot to find (which weren't always about minmax, but also fun, like a non-druid could turn into a werewolf), while also adding neat things like the cube
Those uniques were added in LoD/1.11.
I think D4's most serious issue is that it is a live service game that is already pushing FOMO at release. Are there even ISO based copies of D2R for digital preservation?
D2R has been cracked and is up on most pirate websites.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, but is it in any sort of preserved form that isn't a warez installer?
11 months ago
Anonymous
I have no idea, I DL'd to check out how well they reproduced it but it was like six months ago, I later purchased it to play with my wife, I can check but you could do so just as easily.
11 months ago
Anonymous
You can grab the files for free off battle.net without having to pay but you'll obviously have to get an offline crack. I haven't found a functional working pirated copy of D2 personally.
11 months ago
Anonymous
If i recall Fitgirl has a functional Offline version but of course theirs is packaged with their own installer shit
blindly copying diablo while also being plagued with the issue this "genre" has since inception >plugging in a controller allows you to move with the stick >but you can't use the keyboard to move when playing with a mouse >the path finding is awful despite the world being completely static >0 fun traversal abilities(even sacred from 2004 had those) >combat devolves into the same shit of spamming your abilities and chugging potions
devolves into the same shit of spamming your abilities and chugging potions
This is the real reason why they suck. It's just a glorified cookie clicker.
Originally because of the atmosphere and well told simple story with high production value.
Back in the day it was also pretty fresh and with Diablo 2 there were lots of different ways to play and build the classes, combined with the loot you could find (which didn't just make numbers bigger).
Now they're mainly played by people obsessed with grinding loot infinitely for no good reason.
>Grim Dawn is the spiritual successor to Diablo.
It's really not because they're nothing alike at all. That's just the marketing talk to rope in suckers.
I disagree, I grew up loving D1 and D2, and thought D3 was WoW-ified garbage. Thought torchlight was meh. I absolutely loved Grim Dawn, the gameplay, the music, the world was interesting to explore, the story was interesting. I liked the hybrid classes and the constellation system. The faction system was a bit too much grinding though. I can’t think of a better ARPG overall.
>completely different aesthetics >completely different tone >completely different setting >completely different story >completely different structure >one is 2d the other is 3d >completely different enemies >completely different storytelling style >completely different music >completely different classes and class system >completely different things added
Grim Dawn is not similar to Diablo 1 & 2 at all.
I can't tell if you're merely being contrarian, or you're picking the most superficial complaints you can think of. I said "spiritual successor", not "literally the exact same game".
So it's a vastly different game with almost nothing alike, yet it's supposedly a "spiritual successor".
With that logic, let's just call all top-down ARPGs "spiritual successors" to Diablo.
This far bypasses pedantry and jumps across into pure autism.
It's objectively almost nothing like the Diablo games. Someone could love Diablo but hate Grim Dawn and vice versa, because they have so little in common.
I would fricking never say to anyone "Oh so you like Diablo? Then you'll love Grim Dawn". Because that's such a misleading statement you're basically setting people up for dissapointment.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>barges into conversation >"Oh so you like Diablo? Then you'll love Grim Dawn >refuses to elaborate >leaves
>subhumans on this board things that shitposting instead of presenting a single argument not only promotes discussion, but showcases how they're not in fact subhuman
Grim Dawn is not similar at all to Diablo 1 or 2, beyond just the viewpoint and both having loot as a big part. Which applies to every ARPG out there.
So you can claim something is a spiritual successor all you want, but if it's not similar, then it's effectively a lie or delusion.
You can still enjoy Grim Dawn, but it's not at all like Diablo. Disagree? Feel free to refute my points and prove yourself right.
For me it was the music and sounds. The animations might be stiff and the graphics kinda bad but it all plays so well because using skills and killing enemies sounds good (not as much as D1 and D2 but close) and the music is overall the best in the genre. It's a good game to lay down and relax while murdering a bunch of dudes. It's the only ARPG I actually finished in all difficulties because I just don't get tired of it.
Imagine still being a blizzdrone in Current year+8. Only gripe with grim dawn I have is choice of modding and the tools, unless those have been improved on.
The big problem with Titan Quest and Grim Dawn's dual-mastery system is that your character is so much more powerful if you just focus on one mastery. There is no benefit to splitting your power between two. Skill synergy is practically non-existent.
>hurr durr u can max out another mastery >but yeah u only need 1 mastery to be powerful >no i won't mention all these uber builds that solos bosses needing 2 masteries
Oh, you're another one of those morons who just looks up builds on the internet to get the easiest possible way to play the game, then pretend to be hardcore.
Are there any ARPGs that don't use this hyper random loot system that just keeps dropping items that are +1 armour/damage, or 1% extra to very random specific effect, over the last thing that dropped?
Closest I can think of is Hades or games more inspired by soulslikes such as Remnant from the Ashes.
Modern ARPGs are bit obsessed with mountains of trash loot.
It's weird how it ever became a thing. With the face-paced nature of these games, it just means you're almost constantly throwing out old items for something new that popped out of a barrel.
Because devs misunderstood what made the first two Diablo games popular and randomized trash loot is easier to design and make than thoughtful meaningful loot.
In original Diablo, you walked around slowly and attacked enemies directly. Later ARPGs just kept getting faster and faster, with larger and more destructive screen-deleting abilities.
Path of Exile is basically sprint around at sanic speeds and wipe out the entire screen with the push of a button.
Was it DBZ-tier powercreep? Did they just do it because new tech allowed them to? Were fans calling for it?
As you say, they misunderstood it. But how?
If I'd hazard a guess I'd say devs thought "How can we make combat more satisfying and make players feel more powerful".
This lead to them thinking this this was the path forward >killing tons of enemies quickly >(abilities now devolve into killing large groups of enemies quickly) >flashy on-screen effects and feedback (to make people feel "powerful") >constantly reward players with non-stop loot, while turning the stronger more rare loot into an extended grind, that low drop % loot being the sole reason to replay content (bosses, areas, challenges) in the game >etc
Other devs then looked at these games and thought "How can we make ours bigger and better".
Eventually it came to the point where even advertising the gigantic amount of trash became "positive" marketing, like with Borderlands.
Or to put it in psychological terms, extrinsic rewards are only effective in the short term for most people, while being intrinsically motivated will keep players entertained better for longer. People also become desensitized very quickly to all the flash, making it a very superficial power fantasy.
In other words, devs focused on completely the wrong things to make an enjoyable game to replay again and again. Because too many devs just ape off what others have done without understanding it. This is why even games like Cyberpunk and other looter shooter or ARPGs have this shitty trash loot structure, monkey see monkey do when it comes to incompetent devs.
It's the loot rarity with its dopamine focus. When continually pulling a slot machine, it's a no-brainer to pull that lever as fast as possible. Loot ruined ARPGs, which was its foundation.
Are these just fancy names for smashing two classes together or do they actually add anything on their own?
Its just fancy names for smashing two classes together.
There's still a massive amount of builds in GD compared to Diablo.
Unfortunately most of those builds are "Choose single attack to max, get all the passives from both classes to make that attack better or get some defence"
Even with all that Grim Dawn is still terribly boring. How did they manage to frick up fun in a video game?
They had the perfrect aesthetic in the Greek section of TQ, but prefered "dark and gritty" with Lovecraftian elements.
I have 1000 hours in GD, had enough fun.
>Even with all that Grim Dawn is still terribly boring. How did they manage to frick up fun in a video game?
Because trhey completely misunderstood what people liked about Diablo 1 and 2.
It's not. The world looks and is bland as shit. The "story" and characters are throwaway. The world is generic. The music is forgettable.
Enemy designs and bosses are generic and forgettable. Quests are boring as shit.
So what you're left with are a number of bland classes that just boil down to appealing to min-max build autism, while being boring as frick to play.
What ARPGs do you prefer? This is a serious question, I'm looking for games to play.
I don't think any of them post Diablo 2 are particularly good.
But I guess if you want something new try Shadows Awakening, since that at least looks good and does some interesting things since you're a soul devouring demon that consumes heroes souls.
D4 is not awful. It's not great but near enough to D2 to enjoy.
m8, you literally didn't even finish the game if this is your moronic """criticism"""
What excellent non-argument to counter nothing I mentioned.
>hurr durr x is shit
>why?
>hurr durr not gonna elaborate
>criticism
lol gtfo of here
what did people like about diablo 1 and 2?
Atmosphere
Music
Visuals
Tone
Simple, but well told narrative with good VO and nice cutscenes
For Diablo 1 the gameplay was fresh and a iti different
For Diablo 2, there was a lot of possible experimentation with all the classes, builds and loot to find (which weren't always about minmax, but also fun, like a non-druid could turn into a werewolf), while also adding neat things like the cube
Most ARPG since then focused mainly on the loot.
Those uniques were added in LoD/1.11.
I think D4's most serious issue is that it is a live service game that is already pushing FOMO at release. Are there even ISO based copies of D2R for digital preservation?
D2R has been cracked and is up on most pirate websites.
Yeah, but is it in any sort of preserved form that isn't a warez installer?
I have no idea, I DL'd to check out how well they reproduced it but it was like six months ago, I later purchased it to play with my wife, I can check but you could do so just as easily.
You can grab the files for free off battle.net without having to pay but you'll obviously have to get an offline crack. I haven't found a functional working pirated copy of D2 personally.
If i recall Fitgirl has a functional Offline version but of course theirs is packaged with their own installer shit
blindly copying diablo while also being plagued with the issue this "genre" has since inception
>plugging in a controller allows you to move with the stick
>but you can't use the keyboard to move when playing with a mouse
>the path finding is awful despite the world being completely static
>0 fun traversal abilities(even sacred from 2004 had those)
>combat devolves into the same shit of spamming your abilities and chugging potions
devolves into the same shit of spamming your abilities and chugging potions
This is the real reason why they suck. It's just a glorified cookie clicker.
>It's just a glorified cookie clicker.
isn't every real time game?
>every single ARPG wants to ape Diablo 2 blitzing and not try to do more methodical and slower paced dungeon crawling
Why is it like this?
also
Yeah, but unlike Grim Yawn it's satisfying to play.
Grim Dawn is the best ARPG on the market. Let literal mouthbreathing morons chew up the shit Blizzard excretes.
Dopamine simulators are not RPGs.
Did anyone really expect anything different? Lmao some tards never learn
Why do people play diablo and diablo-likes?
They neither have the fun gameplay of a good action game or the intresting story and lore of a good rpg.
Originally because of the atmosphere and well told simple story with high production value.
Back in the day it was also pretty fresh and with Diablo 2 there were lots of different ways to play and build the classes, combined with the loot you could find (which didn't just make numbers bigger).
Now they're mainly played by people obsessed with grinding loot infinitely for no good reason.
Great atmosphere and addicting gameplay
People played them with friends in the LAN PC cafes. I've basically never played an hour of single-player Diablo.
Grim Dawn is the spiritual successor to Diablo.
>Grim Dawn is the spiritual successor to Diablo.
It's really not because they're nothing alike at all. That's just the marketing talk to rope in suckers.
I disagree, I grew up loving D1 and D2, and thought D3 was WoW-ified garbage. Thought torchlight was meh. I absolutely loved Grim Dawn, the gameplay, the music, the world was interesting to explore, the story was interesting. I liked the hybrid classes and the constellation system. The faction system was a bit too much grinding though. I can’t think of a better ARPG overall.
>t. Sucker
>completely different aesthetics
>completely different tone
>completely different setting
>completely different story
>completely different structure
>one is 2d the other is 3d
>completely different enemies
>completely different storytelling style
>completely different music
>completely different classes and class system
>completely different things added
Grim Dawn is not similar to Diablo 1 & 2 at all.
I can't tell if you're merely being contrarian, or you're picking the most superficial complaints you can think of. I said "spiritual successor", not "literally the exact same game".
So it's a vastly different game with almost nothing alike, yet it's supposedly a "spiritual successor".
With that logic, let's just call all top-down ARPGs "spiritual successors" to Diablo.
It's objectively almost nothing like the Diablo games. Someone could love Diablo but hate Grim Dawn and vice versa, because they have so little in common.
I would fricking never say to anyone "Oh so you like Diablo? Then you'll love Grim Dawn". Because that's such a misleading statement you're basically setting people up for dissapointment.
>barges into conversation
>"Oh so you like Diablo? Then you'll love Grim Dawn
>refuses to elaborate
>leaves
least autistic arpg player
This far bypasses pedantry and jumps across into pure autism.
You have autism.
Your incorrect opinions are a net loss for this board. The discussion can never go upwards because we're all having to brake for morons like you.
>subhumans on this board things that shitposting instead of presenting a single argument not only promotes discussion, but showcases how they're not in fact subhuman
Grim Dawn is not similar at all to Diablo 1 or 2, beyond just the viewpoint and both having loot as a big part. Which applies to every ARPG out there.
So you can claim something is a spiritual successor all you want, but if it's not similar, then it's effectively a lie or delusion.
You can still enjoy Grim Dawn, but it's not at all like Diablo. Disagree? Feel free to refute my points and prove yourself right.
For me it was the music and sounds. The animations might be stiff and the graphics kinda bad but it all plays so well because using skills and killing enemies sounds good (not as much as D1 and D2 but close) and the music is overall the best in the genre. It's a good game to lay down and relax while murdering a bunch of dudes. It's the only ARPG I actually finished in all difficulties because I just don't get tired of it.
It's a spiritual successor to Titan Quest. Essentially just a reskin by the original devs.
purifier bros
Imagine still being a blizzdrone in Current year+8. Only gripe with grim dawn I have is choice of modding and the tools, unless those have been improved on.
The big problem with Titan Quest and Grim Dawn's dual-mastery system is that your character is so much more powerful if you just focus on one mastery. There is no benefit to splitting your power between two. Skill synergy is practically non-existent.
see
There's a reason why literally ALL build require 2 mastery to even beat the final difficulty.
By the time you're on the final difficulty, you have so many skill points that you can max out another mastery and not use a single thing from it.
>hurr durr u can max out another mastery
>but yeah u only need 1 mastery to be powerful
>no i won't mention all these uber builds that solos bosses needing 2 masteries
yeah no
Oh, you're another one of those morons who just looks up builds on the internet to get the easiest possible way to play the game, then pretend to be hardcore.
Are there any ARPGs that don't use this hyper random loot system that just keeps dropping items that are +1 armour/damage, or 1% extra to very random specific effect, over the last thing that dropped?
Closest I can think of is Hades or games more inspired by soulslikes such as Remnant from the Ashes.
Modern ARPGs are bit obsessed with mountains of trash loot.
It's weird how it ever became a thing. With the face-paced nature of these games, it just means you're almost constantly throwing out old items for something new that popped out of a barrel.
Because devs misunderstood what made the first two Diablo games popular and randomized trash loot is easier to design and make than thoughtful meaningful loot.
In original Diablo, you walked around slowly and attacked enemies directly. Later ARPGs just kept getting faster and faster, with larger and more destructive screen-deleting abilities.
Path of Exile is basically sprint around at sanic speeds and wipe out the entire screen with the push of a button.
Was it DBZ-tier powercreep? Did they just do it because new tech allowed them to? Were fans calling for it?
As you say, they misunderstood it. But how?
If I'd hazard a guess I'd say devs thought "How can we make combat more satisfying and make players feel more powerful".
This lead to them thinking this this was the path forward
>killing tons of enemies quickly
>(abilities now devolve into killing large groups of enemies quickly)
>flashy on-screen effects and feedback (to make people feel "powerful")
>constantly reward players with non-stop loot, while turning the stronger more rare loot into an extended grind, that low drop % loot being the sole reason to replay content (bosses, areas, challenges) in the game
>etc
Other devs then looked at these games and thought "How can we make ours bigger and better".
Eventually it came to the point where even advertising the gigantic amount of trash became "positive" marketing, like with Borderlands.
Or to put it in psychological terms, extrinsic rewards are only effective in the short term for most people, while being intrinsically motivated will keep players entertained better for longer. People also become desensitized very quickly to all the flash, making it a very superficial power fantasy.
In other words, devs focused on completely the wrong things to make an enjoyable game to replay again and again. Because too many devs just ape off what others have done without understanding it. This is why even games like Cyberpunk and other looter shooter or ARPGs have this shitty trash loot structure, monkey see monkey do when it comes to incompetent devs.
Original Diablo plays more like Dark Souls than modern ARPGs.
I really want people to combine this shit and make a true isometric D1 successor.
It's the loot rarity with its dopamine focus. When continually pulling a slot machine, it's a no-brainer to pull that lever as fast as possible. Loot ruined ARPGs, which was its foundation.
These outsourced pajeet shills are moronic.
anyone get the achievement for having 19 pets summoned at once? i played at pet build once, but i think i got like five max.