Honestly, I hate this trend of every indie dev aping every indie game out there. You know how they're creatively bankrupt when they copy the next big thing instead of doing their own thing.
Honestly, I hate this trend of every indie dev aping every indie game out there. You know how they're creatively bankrupt when they copy the next big thing instead of doing their own thing.
They are just cashing in on Silksong never coming out and fans wanting more HK
I wouldn't even know why they want more HK since that game was the most boring and bloated Metroidvania I've played, and the last thing I want are more clones of that shit.
I've really come to like Search-Action as a term because it's basically a snappier way of saying
Just "exploration platformer" does the trick.
It matches other genre names by quickly explaining what the APPEAL of the games is. What makes a good platformer? Good platforming. A good dungeon crawler? Good dungeon crawling. A good search-action game? Good search-action.
Roguelike, roguelike is what seethers want everyone to use, and I'm yet to see anyone seething about last one
[...]
[...]
More like exploration action platformer, is it really metroidvania without combat
Indeed, action explorer/platformer or ActExp/APP for short
>it's a widely accepted convention with a clear definition
Don't conflate the ubiquitousness of a term with it being accepted. If Metroidvania were a clearly defined genre, then people wouldn't care what it's called. The issue many people take with the term "Metroidvania" is that It's used in such a broad and all encompassing way that it's about as insightful as "2D" as a descriptor.
a few hundred people screeching autistically about it is not equivalent to it not being accepted, and if you don't believe this you can go see how popular and easily used the term is on any major discussion area like steam, where users actively tag things using the term and nobody in the discussion forums b***hes about it
a game (usually 2d but not necessarily) which has a strong emphasis on player movement and ways to upgrade or alter that movement, a nonlinear approach which allows for variety in what routes a player can take to reach areas and complete the game, and allows players to backtrack to previous areas to locate more upgrades/resources or reach new places that were previously gated
it's very simple to understand what people mean when they say metroidvania unless they are being morons who call cave story a metroidvania or something, in which case you can ignore them
What's with all the autistic demanding to define "Metroidvania"?
It means a game that is like Super Metroid and Castlevania SotN. Platformers with emphasis on exploration (including revisiting areas) and RPG-like progression of gear and skills and strength.
Not hard.
so if there's a clear definition, then people are arguing that the term itself is moronic? like "soulsborne"? soulsborne is pretty moronic as a term.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I think it started because they aren't real genres since the games are combinations of different genres, so it's easier to just refer to the games so people know what to expect.
When it does start to become a big subgenre, however, it feels stupid that developers are still having to describe their game in comparison to more popular games.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>so it's easier to just refer to the games so people know what to expect.
Maybe initially Metroidvania meant something, but we're at the stage where creatively bankrupt devs are blending genres as a selling point. No way In hell Metroidvania can be an accurate term for both a monster collecting 3v3 turn based sidescrolling game like Monster Sanctuary and a straight up Metroid clone like ESA.
3 months ago
Anonymous
the argument against using the phrase "metroidvania" has always been a kneejerk reaction about how there should be a better descriptive term than using two different game names slammed together, followed by nobody actually providing a better term because there's not one
why not just come up with a new term then? it shouldn't be that hard to come up with something that isn't derivative of a game's name but that also adequately encapsulates the definition that is so well defined.
>soulsborne is pretty moronic as a term.
Soulsborne refers to the games Fromsoftware makes that are reminiscent of Demon's Souls. Souls-likes are the imitations by devs that aren't From.
same deal as above, if the terms are unpopular then just come up with something else. but I think in the case of 'soulsborne' and 'soulslike' they're useless terms in lieu of simply calling them ARPGs, given that's what they are at the core.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>but I think in the case of 'soulsborne' and 'soulslike' they're useless terms in lieu of simply calling them ARPGs
ARPG is more vague, therefore Soulsborne and Souls-likes are superior. Games like Scarlet Nexus and Granblue Fantasy Relink play nothing like Souls games.
3 months ago
Anonymous
yeah but people talk about dark souls like it's something new, when at its core it's really an RPG focused around combat and exploration. honestly, much like a 'metroidvania' is. at least the first game was, anyway. if you don't like that description then you could just call it an action-adventure game, which is even more vague, but it's fitting because these games are very much a natural progression of the legend of zelda, and zelda has been called 'action-adventure' for some time now, whether it's fitting or not. no point in coming up with an entirely new term for what already exists.
3 months ago
Anonymous
okay come up with a new term that's literally what the thread is about
you can't because they all sound stupid as frick
3 months ago
Anonymous
even if you don't find any of the suggestions in this thread to your liking, that will never change the fact that 'metroidvania' is itself a stupid sounding term that, on its own, does little to convey the ideas or definition that it's supposed to express. the only reason people know what it means is because they've learned about the definition and retroactively applied it to the term. if you've never attempted to understand what it means, even if you've played 'metroid' and 'castlevania' games before, you'd likely be uncertain as to what the term precisely means, even if you want to be lazy and make assumptions based on what you know about the games. even 'metroidlike' is a better descriptor than 'metroidvania'.
3 months ago
Anonymous
"tree" has no meaning until used either
3 months ago
Anonymous
"tree" refers to a specific object, and by the way, despite its simplistic definition, there are still a variety of descriptors for trees. maybe we should just accept that you can pretty much call a genre whatever the frick you want and have it be valid, or just throw genre names out entirely and use our words to describe things? if I wanted to call them hollowlikes, who are you to say I'm wrong, if we're both to acknowledge the flexibility of language?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>soulsborne is pretty moronic as a term.
Soulsborne refers to the games Fromsoftware makes that are reminiscent of Demon's Souls. Souls-likes are the imitations by devs that aren't From.
3 months ago
Anonymous
the argument against using the phrase "metroidvania" has always been a kneejerk reaction about how there should be a better descriptive term than using two different game names slammed together, followed by nobody actually providing a better term because there's not one
"metroidvania" and "immersive sim" have been around since like the 90s though, and "roguelites" didn't really exist as a genre until zoomers were already around.
Nobody would care if Egoraptor didn't mention a few times that he hates "Metroidvania" as a name.
I would just call them "adventure games," as said Metroid was classified as on its NES boxart and the only other types of adventure games are niche "point-and-click adventures."
What's with all the autistic demanding to define "Metroidvania"?
It means a game that is like Super Metroid and Castlevania SotN. Platformers with emphasis on exploration (including revisiting areas) and RPG-like progression of gear and skills and strength.
>and RPG-like progression of gear and skills and strength.
The majority of memetroidvania lack this, though, they take the Metroid approach which is more streamlined. Bloodstained got shat on for the grindiness, and it was made by daddy Igarashi himself, with all the hallmarks of the Castlevania games he worked on that are hailed as the OG Metroidvania before the Indie boom. In my opinion, it's not a Metroidvania if you aren't autistic ally shuffling between rooms to kill respawning enemies for their loot/souls/exp. Games that lack this gameplay loop are Metroid-likes.
Metroid has RPG-like progression in her upgrades. >energy tanks = level up >missiles of all types = MP/offensive spells >suit upgrades = defense up >new abilities = support spells >arm cannon upgrades = new weapons to equip
Metroid doesn't have a complex damage formula that rounds up from decimal points, it's all simple plus and minus arithmetic where some enemies need 5 shots and others 1 like in Paper Mario. Indie devs that can't be arsed to replicate the autism of a Jrpg will just copy the Metroid way.
Metroidlike. SotN didn't add anything crucial to the formula that wasn't already in Super Metroid. All SotN added was leveling, which isn't required for the genre.
It's just another form of Samus getting an energy tank or reserve tank. Samus becomes harder to kill and "stronger" since you can fire off more shots due to being able to live longer.
I called them maze games when I was 4. shit like Goonies 2 and Friday the 13th. when games had maze levels that were cut into the middle of standard go-left-to-right levels, that was the fricking worst. I absolutely hated that fricking haunted house level in Monster Party.
2D Semi-nonlinear search action exploration platformers, duh
hollow-like
Considering the state of metroidvanias in the current steam next fest, far off
Honestly, I hate this trend of every indie dev aping every indie game out there. You know how they're creatively bankrupt when they copy the next big thing instead of doing their own thing.
isn't* far off
They are just cashing in on Silksong never coming out and fans wanting more HK
I wouldn't even know why they want more HK since that game was the most boring and bloated Metroidvania I've played, and the last thing I want are more clones of that shit.
Hollow-like is a term that should be used for souless games, I agree.
backtrackers
Kino games
Also true
troon games
Adventure.
Like it used to be.
castletroids
I like it.
Search Action, as they call it in Japan.
I've really come to like Search-Action as a term because it's basically a snappier way of saying
It matches other genre names by quickly explaining what the APPEAL of the games is. What makes a good platformer? Good platforming. A good dungeon crawler? Good dungeon crawling. A good search-action game? Good search-action.
Just "exploration platformer" does the trick.
came here to say this
Indeed, action explorer/platformer or ActExp/APP for short
i call them metroidvanias because i do not give a frick what some people are whining about with "you can't just put the name of a game into a genre"
yes i can, it's a widely accepted convention with a clear definition and i will continue to refer to things this way, eat shit
>it's a widely accepted convention with a clear definition
Don't conflate the ubiquitousness of a term with it being accepted. If Metroidvania were a clearly defined genre, then people wouldn't care what it's called. The issue many people take with the term "Metroidvania" is that It's used in such a broad and all encompassing way that it's about as insightful as "2D" as a descriptor.
people don't care what it's called
a few hundred people screeching autistically about it is not equivalent to it not being accepted, and if you don't believe this you can go see how popular and easily used the term is on any major discussion area like steam, where users actively tag things using the term and nobody in the discussion forums b***hes about it
you lost
so define it then. what does it mean?
a game (usually 2d but not necessarily) which has a strong emphasis on player movement and ways to upgrade or alter that movement, a nonlinear approach which allows for variety in what routes a player can take to reach areas and complete the game, and allows players to backtrack to previous areas to locate more upgrades/resources or reach new places that were previously gated
it's very simple to understand what people mean when they say metroidvania unless they are being morons who call cave story a metroidvania or something, in which case you can ignore them
Hollow knight doesn't automap until you find the maps, and for that reason alone a lot of people think it's not a Metroidvania
i have never seen anyone say this so i'm going to pretend you never posted it, thank you
so if there's a clear definition, then people are arguing that the term itself is moronic? like "soulsborne"? soulsborne is pretty moronic as a term.
I think it started because they aren't real genres since the games are combinations of different genres, so it's easier to just refer to the games so people know what to expect.
When it does start to become a big subgenre, however, it feels stupid that developers are still having to describe their game in comparison to more popular games.
>so it's easier to just refer to the games so people know what to expect.
Maybe initially Metroidvania meant something, but we're at the stage where creatively bankrupt devs are blending genres as a selling point. No way In hell Metroidvania can be an accurate term for both a monster collecting 3v3 turn based sidescrolling game like Monster Sanctuary and a straight up Metroid clone like ESA.
why not just come up with a new term then? it shouldn't be that hard to come up with something that isn't derivative of a game's name but that also adequately encapsulates the definition that is so well defined.
same deal as above, if the terms are unpopular then just come up with something else. but I think in the case of 'soulsborne' and 'soulslike' they're useless terms in lieu of simply calling them ARPGs, given that's what they are at the core.
>but I think in the case of 'soulsborne' and 'soulslike' they're useless terms in lieu of simply calling them ARPGs
ARPG is more vague, therefore Soulsborne and Souls-likes are superior. Games like Scarlet Nexus and Granblue Fantasy Relink play nothing like Souls games.
yeah but people talk about dark souls like it's something new, when at its core it's really an RPG focused around combat and exploration. honestly, much like a 'metroidvania' is. at least the first game was, anyway. if you don't like that description then you could just call it an action-adventure game, which is even more vague, but it's fitting because these games are very much a natural progression of the legend of zelda, and zelda has been called 'action-adventure' for some time now, whether it's fitting or not. no point in coming up with an entirely new term for what already exists.
okay come up with a new term that's literally what the thread is about
you can't because they all sound stupid as frick
even if you don't find any of the suggestions in this thread to your liking, that will never change the fact that 'metroidvania' is itself a stupid sounding term that, on its own, does little to convey the ideas or definition that it's supposed to express. the only reason people know what it means is because they've learned about the definition and retroactively applied it to the term. if you've never attempted to understand what it means, even if you've played 'metroid' and 'castlevania' games before, you'd likely be uncertain as to what the term precisely means, even if you want to be lazy and make assumptions based on what you know about the games. even 'metroidlike' is a better descriptor than 'metroidvania'.
"tree" has no meaning until used either
"tree" refers to a specific object, and by the way, despite its simplistic definition, there are still a variety of descriptors for trees. maybe we should just accept that you can pretty much call a genre whatever the frick you want and have it be valid, or just throw genre names out entirely and use our words to describe things? if I wanted to call them hollowlikes, who are you to say I'm wrong, if we're both to acknowledge the flexibility of language?
>soulsborne is pretty moronic as a term.
Soulsborne refers to the games Fromsoftware makes that are reminiscent of Demon's Souls. Souls-likes are the imitations by devs that aren't From.
the argument against using the phrase "metroidvania" has always been a kneejerk reaction about how there should be a better descriptive term than using two different game names slammed together, followed by nobody actually providing a better term because there's not one
what is it about "metroidvania", "roguelite", and "immersive sim" that makes so many autists seethe?
Zoomers started creating new words for already existing genres.
"metroidvania" and "immersive sim" have been around since like the 90s though, and "roguelites" didn't really exist as a genre until zoomers were already around.
The word metroidvania is older than you, thoughbeit.
Roguelike, roguelike is what seethers want everyone to use, and I'm yet to see anyone seething about last one
More like exploration action platformer, is it really metroidvania without combat
some kind of combat or conflict is always implied if something is a game rather than a simulation
games are systems of rules that mediate conflict
>combat and conflict bundled together
Is this a fricking AI post
>Elechead was metroidvania all along
Immersive sim sounds kinda dumb but has its place
Immersive sim is an old ass term either made by a journo or kek kekline
"Labyrinthine"
Action/Adventure Platformer
progressive platformer.
They're called Holloids now
Complete and utter dog shit
platformer with rpg elements
Search Action
Search-action or non-linear platformer
search-action
exploration platformer
Back in the NES days they were classified as Adventure.
Nobody would care if Egoraptor didn't mention a few times that he hates "Metroidvania" as a name.
I would just call them "adventure games," as said Metroid was classified as on its NES boxart and the only other types of adventure games are niche "point-and-click adventures."
Adventure games
non-liner, combat focused platforming exploration game.
I wouldn't call it anything. I would listen to what it wants to be called, and that's what no one did.
"I want my genre to be 'action-adventure'"
What's with all the autistic demanding to define "Metroidvania"?
It means a game that is like Super Metroid and Castlevania SotN. Platformers with emphasis on exploration (including revisiting areas) and RPG-like progression of gear and skills and strength.
Not hard.
>and RPG-like progression of gear and skills and strength.
The majority of memetroidvania lack this, though, they take the Metroid approach which is more streamlined. Bloodstained got shat on for the grindiness, and it was made by daddy Igarashi himself, with all the hallmarks of the Castlevania games he worked on that are hailed as the OG Metroidvania before the Indie boom. In my opinion, it's not a Metroidvania if you aren't autistic ally shuffling between rooms to kill respawning enemies for their loot/souls/exp. Games that lack this gameplay loop are Metroid-likes.
Metroid has RPG-like progression in her upgrades.
>energy tanks = level up
>missiles of all types = MP/offensive spells
>suit upgrades = defense up
>new abilities = support spells
>arm cannon upgrades = new weapons to equip
Metroid doesn't have a complex damage formula that rounds up from decimal points, it's all simple plus and minus arithmetic where some enemies need 5 shots and others 1 like in Paper Mario. Indie devs that can't be arsed to replicate the autism of a Jrpg will just copy the Metroid way.
Action
Adventure
Diarrhea-like.
But enough about Dark Souls.
Metroidlike. SotN didn't add anything crucial to the formula that wasn't already in Super Metroid. All SotN added was leveling, which isn't required for the genre.
It's just another form of Samus getting an energy tank or reserve tank. Samus becomes harder to kill and "stronger" since you can fire off more shots due to being able to live longer.
exploration platformer
another I've heard was explor-action
you could also use Jet Set Willy-like
Search-Action
where-the-frick-do-I-go-games
I called them maze games when I was 4. shit like Goonies 2 and Friday the 13th. when games had maze levels that were cut into the middle of standard go-left-to-right levels, that was the fricking worst. I absolutely hated that fricking haunted house level in Monster Party.