>Be wizard
>Get the most powerful feature in the game (Spellcasting)
>Have the largest spellcasting list in the game because wizard shitfricks complained that they had to share their spell list with other casters
>Be given the ability to literally modify and create your own spell only to be scraped because everyone realized how fricking broken that would be.
> Still have access to spells that let you completely shut down encounters and break entire campaigns.
Be monk
>have multiple design flaws that haven't been addressed since your class was released 10 years ago.
> Have a super limited resource that powers all your abilities that you have to burn to keep up with everyone else and if you run out you are worse than every other class in the game.
>Do subpar damage, have low hp, and bad defenses
>since your damage comes from melee unarmed attacks or nonheavy melee weapons, you can't benefit that well from Sharpshooter or GWM. and even if you did take SS, any other material would do better damage than you with that feat.
> Even if you did want to take feats, since you split between three abilities that you need to pump in order to even be decent in combat, you basically end up just taking asi.
>Have some of the worst subclasses in the entire game.
> The only thing holding your entire class together is a shitty stun attack that drains your ki and targets one of the hardest save in the game.
So how do they fix the class?
>"Yeah so we gave you guys +1 damage, and even that might have been too much!"
>"Oh and we nerfed Stunning Strike and stripped out all the interesting flavor for your class"
Truly the greatest game designer of our time.
>muh auteur theory
>i dont like the kiddy pool, its shallow and smells like piss
Learn to swim?
one dnd is the same marketing nothingburger as one wod, so congrats on the shared suffering i guess
Have you tried......... a delicious roast beef sandwich from Arby's?
Not since they got rid of their potato cakes.
Does that put me in the line for diarrhea or the line for throwing up?
Little bit of column A, little bit of column B.
Marketing department is getting serious about no demographic left unturned.
>search for dnd 1e
>one dnd comes up first
This is their plan. To erase the very history they claim would be racist to erase.
Basic communism. Year zero and all that. Control the present by controlling the past.
Yes anon, corporation securing copyrights they don't own by squatting and using the same name as actual first installment did is communism. Of course.
Not him but an entity using state power to stifle the free and open market falls under communism.
No. Uneducated take. We are all embarrassed for you.
He's right. Go into the bathroom, turn the lights off. Stay there in the dark for 3 hours.
True capitalism has never been tried.
This
I remember months ago saying they're doing this to prevent people from googling OD&D and D&D1e and people called me crazy.
>Implying someone capable to figure out that different edition of a game exist could have any issue with that
They will simply stumble into OSR and go for a retroclone if interested. Hype normoBlack folk will keep chugging diarrhea unawarely blissful.
Doesn't matter how much you know it exists if you can't find it
Websearch will eventually point them to OSR when they look for "older d&d editions".
Or D&D 5e.
Or dead links, like looking for most D&D 3.5e web articles and forum posts do (if they haven't been delisted entirely by now).
Nerf spellcasting and buff melee. Spellcasting should take a full round and be interruptible by a melee attack, and melee fighters should get several stronger options to control positioning. These changes will also promote teamwork, as casters can take advantage of plays that melee characters set up, and will depend on melee characters keeping enemy melee from inturupting their spells. This will also allow melee players to feel accomplished when a powerful spell goes off, because pushing someone into a fireball feels better than having your kill stolen by a fireball.
Another fricking brainlet trying to fix martials/casters via combat with the same brainlet take.
The problem is not "wizard too good in fight, martial not good enough". The problem is that when a martial levels up, they get better at combat, but when a wizard levels up they get better at not getting into combat or skipping it completely. Martials are a hammer with little to no other function outside of hitting things. You can't just make the hammer better at hitting things and the other tools worse at that unless most of your game is hitting things with no option to do anything else. And if that's the case you're playing the wrong version of D&D.
You need to either limit the abilities of casters OUTSIDE of combat, or give martials some additional innate tools to work with.
Actually its both. Martials are only good at combat, but casters are better at combat and also better at everything outside of combat. And most martial players prefer it that way anyway.
That is a harder problem to fix. Magic will always be good at solving problems, so characters without spellcasting will never be able to compete unless spells are expensive enough to make solutions without them worth it.
The few things martials can do well out of combat should be enhanced and protected from wizards being capable of doing easily.
Now I'm wondering if any existing systems function this way...
>le hit people hard with stick man should be able to compete with demigods rewriting reality with their intellect
If you want them to play at the same table, yes. Feel free to go full caster supremacy if your party is all casters or all martials.
A level 10 character should be roughly on par with another level 10 character. Otherwise, just be honest and add a level cap to certain archetypes.
I dunno why you guys keep making these threads. Crawford already said he hates monks he wishes they were never in the system and that he's going to do everything in his hand to fans stop asking for monks in future editions
At this point I would say is pretty obvious why monk is worthless
He didn't say any of that, he only said on a tweet that he doesn't like monks and that probably will get sidelined in 5e (meaning appear in future splats not in core).
Source? I believe you, just wanna see it with my eyes.
And what a strange concept. If you don't like a class, surely you can't design them in an impartial way and you should pull in someone on the team who DOES like them so that they get a fair representation for the player base that enjoys that specific fantasy. Not everybody is going to be an expert on everything, but a good leader knows to delegate people to cover their own weak spots.
The tweet gets posted every blue moon on /5eg/ and sure it sounds bad but you people make it look like is some weird conspiracy. Look monks don't fit in D&D that much is obvious so I see no problem if the monk gets released later in some oriental adventures ONED&D style with some setting that fits like people with no more than medium armor and no shields etc
>Look monks don't fit in D&D that much is obvious
Tieflings and dragonborns ok though..... yeah...
The game (dnd) was made by angry, skinny, leftist atheists so the nerd class (wizards) is the strongest one and the Christian class (monk) gets shafted.
Monk is actually chinkoid, the christian classes (cleric and paladin) are some of the strongest in the game. So strong in fact leftists constantly try to make them not christian (atheist clerics, non lawful good paladins) but it never sticks
I've got a suggestion: start charging rent out of all the "lefties" living in your head. Otherwise, you support socialism by letting them live rent-free
I already overcharge them in my duplexes, should I start charging even MORE?
overcharge yourself with exposed electricity from your overpriced hovels landhomosexual
>This entire wall of text
>That could be summed up with "monks suck in yet another edition"
Play a 4e monk.
>be monk
>suck at damage and resiliency
>wizard complains my stun is op
>said wizard has some weird build that lets him cast lots of 1st level spells
>spams hideous laughter more than I can stun
>laughter does the same but also drops prone, lasts 1 min and targets Wis rather than Con
>wizard still complains about my stun
wtf?
Convince your party member to play a Tragedy Bard and turn your stunning strikes into CHA saves instead of Con
Just kidding, this story didn't happen and you don't play games
>"Oh and we nerfed Stunning Strike and stripped out all the interesting flavor for your class"
Based, monk players are insufferable
Monk haters are insufferable, they are generally white nerds who watched DBZ as a kid and expect to be able to punch mountains with their fists.
They can't wrap their head around the eastern influence that emphasises adaptability and subtly. from which the class is drawn.
People who just compare numbers do so suggesting that they are isolated from the environment in which they are calculated and don't consider the multipliers that it applies to the equations that suggest numerical power. This includes what the DM can do for the class such as adding verticality to the encounters providing magic items specific for the monk etc.
This is a core issue people try to apply rigid mathematics to a class that is designed to bend and curve with the situation they find themselves in which is why they have the ability to dodge as a bonus action, move quickly, climb, evade, disengage etc.
There is also power in being overlooked and considered weak, see tortoise and hair, drunken master technique, Bilbo Baggins.
'Water is the softest and most yielding substance. Yet nothing is better than water, for overcoming the hard and rigid, because nothing can compete with it.'
'Many people are hijacked by the rigidity of their minds. Thinking in categories and fixed ideas can be a great crutch for survival, as it creates clarity in a chaotic universe. But thinking too rigidly also has its negative consequences. Seeing the world in categories and separate boxes limits our perception, so we become stuck in our ideas of how things are, or supposed to be.'
'As the universe is ever-changing, and most things, if not everything, is more complex than our minds can comprehend, a more fruitful approach to life, would be one that is flexible, tangible, that enables us to flow along. You know... a bit like water.'
'The ancient Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu (Taoism) celebrates flexibility in his timeless work named the Tao Te Ching, in which he opposes the rigid life stance that some people choose to take. In contrast to what many think, weakness, and softness, or more specifically, the ability and willingness to yield, can actually be a great strength, according to Taoist philosophy.
Hence, Lao Tzu states that the supreme good is like water. This video explores the benefits of being a bit less rigid and a bit more like water.'
"Be like water" - Bruce Lee
>your niche is to do everything worse than everyone else does it
>you will enjoy this
Very zen
But you have the ability to do what everyone else does and nobody else has that ability.
Because it's a shitty ability gameplay-wise.
>providing magic items specific for the monk etc.
you say that like there are any magic items that the monk
You can make them up fricking morono, you're the GM you literally make all up
That's copium, you need to make them up because the monk class was neglected by the game designers and is shit. If you need to put in elbow grease to make sure one of the players isn't lagging behind, the game didn't do it's job.
>it's job
>just make it lol you're the GM
Hey WoTC, one of your designers escaped the basement.
>just fix the game for them!
That's pulling on a loose thread that leads down the path of trying to remake D&D, as so many others have. The stated goal is "make the monk less shit" while the real problem is "why the frick are you wasting your time on a game that isn't fun to play because everything about it is subtly and unsubtly fricked?"
No
>monk is ok because despite the system not supporting it the GM can fix the system
You're assuming that the GM agrees that the system doesn't support him or knows how to fix it. I had GMs say the 3.PF core monk was OP and yet allow Sacred Geometry x4 on a wizard
This is the problem with "just fix it", it requires a more than capable GM who undertands the nuances of the systems and can successfully fix the class without breaking anything down the line or who has time to do it
That's why the systems has to treat all classes fairly, because not all GMs are able to fix the system's mistakes
Unless your playing something like chess where all players involved have the exact same abilities and even this is a poor example because there are advantages to going first then the scenario the GM presents to the players will always bias one over another. This is just the fundamental nature of any game.
Fairness is impossible this is even true in life, some people possess natural advanages over others that allow for ease in succeeding in certain fields, see professional sports.
>Monk haters are insufferable, they are generally white nerds who watched DBZ as a kid and expect to be able to punch mountains with their fists.
You mean hispanics and third worlders
I just wanna be able to hurt people so I can defend myself in game
Can I hurt people for lots of damage but only a few times a day?
Can I hurt people over and over again but it's a linear hurt?
Do I hurt people in abstract ways like debuffs?
Do I prevent myself or others from getting hurt?
Thats it dog.
It doesn't matter, class is hot garbage but not the devs nor the D&Drones will ever admit it. Even ranger is above the monk
At this point just don't play D&D if you want to play a monk, do what I did, pick unarmed style battlerager barbarian and deal more damage than monks, be more resilient than monks, and do grapple/shove as bonus action forever with advantage on athletics
Flavor and lorewise, wizards are the absolute worst class. Just merge them into sorcerer and be done with it.
____ ___ _____ ___ _______ _&_?
Goddamn my brain just likes it in automatically - that’s great anon. TY for this.
Play 4e. Monk is actually fun.
Every class is actually fun in 4E. It's a real shame the best mechanical system they ever designed was the one that fared the worst.
Ehhh, some of the Essentials shit is dulll. None of the 4e classes are unplayable but some lack any identity or flair. Still over 4e Ranger the most. Being a martial and dropping spellcasting is the best thing they did...and they walked it back in 5e.
I wanted to trie 4e at least once, but literally nobody I know irl or even roll20 that share schedule wants to play that system. I gave up years ago
Very healthy community in the discord. Most people play on Foundry since there a community maintained module for it.
Would be better if it wasn't stapled to the psionic garbage.
And also didn't appear like 4-5 years later
2 years. 4e came out in 2008 and PH3 in 2010. By 2012 WotC killed the edition.
>buy shit games no matter what and do all the work of fixing them yourselves
>"wtf why does this new one suck?"
>repeat
D&D fans are so goddamn stupid.
>monk
>released 10 years ago
I think he means 5e
Specially because he has a picture of Crawford (lead dev in 5e), talks about scarce resources that monk need for everything to stay relevant and other stuff
Or at least is what everybody assumed reading the replies
I didn't know that OD&D invented wizards being OP and monks being shit.
99% people don't know how to play a monk, the ones we do have no problem and also become the mvp of the party
Enlighten us, oh kung fu Master.
still waiting
>the Chad Wizard
>the virgin monk
Play a wizard you emu-fondling homosexual
But anyway, why is this guy in charge of D&D? What happened to the capable creators from past editions?
>What happened to the capable creators from past editions?
they didn't adapt to the ESG style
>Be monk
>have multiple design flaws that haven't been addressed since your class was released 10 years ago.
More like 20 years ago lmao
>Truly the greatest game designer of our time.
Yes, he is. He understands that no one should be playing a martial class inside a FANTASY GAME about magic and magical creatures. The only reasons martials like the Monk are even around is a 3-fold mixture of sacred cows, abject pity, and autistic weeaboo-ism. So if he can't get rid of them completely, at least he understands that they should be made as shitty as possible to gatekeep people like you - who don't understand the whole point of the game - away from having fun or meaningfully participating in the gameplay loop.
The problem was never the game design, or the game designerse. The problem was always martialcucks like you who want the game to be something it isn't. If you play a non-full caster class, anon, then you're playing objectively wrong. So stop playing and get out. You aren't wanted or needed in the TTRPG hobby.
D&D is an inbred emulation of what WotC's writers assume fantasy books are like, according to stories they heard about other people playing older editions of D&D. Screaming "BUT MUH FANTASY" doesn't mean shit when the problem is that WotC is bad at what they do, not that martial characters are out of place in a FANTASY GAME
Reminder not to engage the castergay as he is incredibly lonely and needs to be slandered for his awful takes to reach orgasm.
Monk is just a bunch of disparate legacy options riding the 80s kung fu craze that muck about due to saveed cowness.
I thoroughly enjoyed Way of the Living Weapon: Forged Heart
But have to say it was a character ported from PF so there was already heavy attachment to it
...so what's the problem here? You are basically complaining about an explicit noob trap purposefully put there being... a noob trap? If you were dumb and picked a monk, you learn from your mistakes and don't fall into the same noob trap again.