imagination or time travel, which is it?
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Origin of Paradox
imagination or time travel, which is it?
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no idea what you are trying to say here, schizo
imagination or time travel, which is it?
Don't rack your brains, they are paradoxes, something that shouldn't exist, but exists, there is no logical explanation.
Maybe they are just dreams of the great ancestral turtle from Stephen King's books.
If you think Gamefreak is capable of something as convoluted as scenario A, then you're insane.
seems like a lot more hoops have to be crossed for scen. B tbh
It doesn’t, because people who write time travel stories are not autistic about it as those who consume it, they don’t bother about covering all possible loopholes nor even acknowledge their existence.
Imagination theory, though, requires GF to actually think of something no super convoluted and having it be the twist for their story targeting 10yo children.
That's some massive brainlet cope, specially in a gen whose best point is the writing.
Kieran's deal with Dokutaro, the charm in Peaches and the foreshadowing of his poisoning since day 1 should tell you they are actually writing something decent this time, you are just too used to the shit the previous writer of the games did.
As the other anon said, they're actually putting in effort this time.
?si=Ayy--KlNgfpNvSSl
Maybe it's all a funny reference to Roko's basilisk, that's why the main Legendaries have those forms.
It is pretty interesting how the imagination argument is the only one that can actually cite points and references from the game to prove its point.
Time travel is impossible unless the MC somehow thinks turning on the time machine and sending one of his Koraidon/Miraidon (as well as many others paradox pokemon) to the past for Heath to see is a good idea.
And so far The Indigo Disk story seems to ignore Turo/Sada's schizo ramblings entirely
Not being able to see either of those 2 doesn't mean shit. Why are you taking it as a given that they're the only members of their species?
I hope it's all imagined. It'd be really lazy world building if past pokemon were the same but more hairy and horny, and future pokemon are just robots.
And retconning darwinian evolution for reality warping ISN'T lazy?
Darwin's theory was definitely about how every living being will turn into robots in the future.
Neither of those scenarios account for Briar or the DLC.
Placing my money on GF doesn’t give a shit and the DLC will either answer nothing or actively contradict current evidence
Abominations that's what they are
The Beast would definitely take offense Musketeers would mind their own business
This is my expectation.
What about the trio paradoxes in the DLC then?
If the paradoxes were just visions, why did Heath lie?
Lie about what? Terapagos shows memories throughout the anime, and Heath describes an interaction with a person as if "in a dream" in the Paradox Book. We learn through the story and the conclusion of the game that everything Heath wrote about is real, so what exactly do you think he's lying about?
>We learn through the story and the conclusion of the game that everything Heath wrote about is real
Not the Paradoxmons though, which is the problem. We haven't seen the Great Tusk or Iron Treads from the Scarlet/Violet book and WW/IL/RB/IC are just straight up pulled from Occulture with the only reference in Heath's book being the imaginary sketch.
If everything Heath wrote was true, there's no reason for Briar to want to prove it as such and we'd be able to see the Pokemon described in-game. Instead, the only thing we get from the book is the herba mystica.
Oh it's you again. Bye.
>occulture donphan image
Nta, but the anon you responded to never mentioned anything about some occulture donphan image. Occulture doesn't have images. Although it's been a while since I played the game so I could be wrong. What are you talking about?
It’s the Scatterbug Sprite Difference ‘effect’. When
mentions the Scarlet Book’s Great Tusk and Iron Treads, they’re talking about the drawn recollections of Pokémon Heath and his Team only saw very briefly when they got attacked. The fact is the anon believes the drawing is the ‘correct’ version Heath saw, because they believe the Scarlet Book’s Photo of Great Tusk looks nothing like the modern version. This is despite the ability to see the outline of the ears covering the back design, and the perspective shift of the Donphan’s back spikes giving it a weird curved look. All it is is is the Scatterbug Sprite issue, where the model’s picture was taken at a weird time, perpetuating the belief there is something different about the photo than there really is.
Don't bother, you're just responding to the schizo. They know exactly what they're doing and no matter how many times you explain it they just continue the same cyclical bullshit over and over. DLC is 3 days away so just wait things out and see how they resolve the story.
It is funny how the schizo is so hung up on circular arguments to prove time travel despite the lack of evidence in the game itself.
There's a cruel irony in that degree of autism.
Post the Scarlet Book Great Tusk. When are we gonna get that one? It actually looks way cooler.
The Violet Book Iron Treads also looks way less moronic with those feet.
Wait I don't get it, he's right? Why don't we see the paradoxes in Heath's book?
>If everything Heath wrote was true, there's no reason for Briar to want to prove it as such and we'd be able to see the Pokemon described in-game.
But the reason she wants to prove it is that the entire thing was dismissed as a fantasy or hoax when the expedition returned by other researchers. She's the great(?) granddaughter, of course she'd like to clear his name.
Yeah, this feels like Kukui's paradox where he had to transmit his dream to Ash so that Ash could transmit it to his younger self.
It's not as spectacular as all the crazy theories here, but plot-wise it's the best.
Yep, the Paradox Book and the Occulture are the equivalent of the Murals in TotK. The murals depict all the events that you learn occurred, and by the end of the game you realize that it's telling the story of Zelda being sent back moments after they first discovered them.
It's a temporal paradox with no true beginning, because it only happens because Zelda is thrown thousands of years into the past. That leaves the question of how do the murals originally exist? The game never explains this to you, and the Indigo Disk will probably present a similar scenario. This is why Khu backtracked saying that "they won't explain it" because it's a paradoxical loop that doesn't have an explanation.
>This is why Khu backtracked saying that "they won't explain it" because it's a paradoxical loop that doesn't have an explanation.
So in other words, it's imagination because the paradoxmon aren't actually from the periods the professor believed they came from.
Are you claiming the person Zelda is imaginary.
>Are you claiming the person Zelda is imaginary.
No because the Zelda depicted in the murals is explicitly the Zelda we know and the one that went to the past.
This is as opposed to the paradoxes we catch in-game which are explicitly NOT from Heath's book and merely borrow the names of similarly depicted ones.
Welcome back to the thread. Here's your (you), post it or get lost. Until the, the adults are speaking.
>This is why Khu backtracked saying that "they won't explain it" because it's a paradoxical loop that doesn't have an explanation.
This writing hack method has done before, and it still works.
They're from the past/future but they appear as what people imagine them to be.
There you go, it's both.
Neither, It's either interdimensional Travel, or mutations from to much exposure to Tera Crystals.
Check'd
>all numbers are repeated
I kneel to truth-sama
Holy digits
I feel like it just being regular time travel would be boring, so I hope it's imagination, but it's probably not going to get answered. Gamefreak loves leaving shit unexplained.
>post count goes up
>IP stays the same
>schizo seething
my heart says A but my knowledge of gamefreak says it's just time travel that was wish granted by the turtle and gamefreak fricked up by trying to force the usual time loop paradox without a beta reader
I'm so excited to see the bloodshed and horrors committed in these threads during the final hours leading to part 2's release, as well as the post part 2 threads where the losing team complains about the canon answer being stupid.
>neither side is proved right
>they join forces to complain about the canon answer being stupid
would be the greatest ending of all time
I think imagination, but I don’t think they’ll provide an outright answer since it’d defeat the nature of a paradox
Reminder the only way Heath can possibly see Koraidon/Miraidon in Area Zero is if the time machine is activated in the DLC to send one to his era for some dumb reason
Tick tock, timecucks, tick tock
Reminder that Syncing gives us a reason to send Koraidon/Miraidon back into the past as a tool to use against the paradoxes that were sent back.
>Syncing gives us a reason to send Koraidon/Miraidon
How?
Are you incapable of reading things all the way through?
No, but you are incapable of writing anything that makes sense, hence the question. The MC has literally zero reason to send Koraidon/Miraidon back in time, being able to synchronice himself with the pokemon doesn't change this.
They'll just backtrack and say some babble about Penny hacking the machine to go back in time or Briar completing the loop.
They're mindbroken, might as well sit back and enjoy the show like everyone else that doesn't bother posting.
>The MC has literally zero reason to send Koraidon/Miraidon back in time,
Except to get the paradoxes that were sent back.
As you know humans can't come back through time so the player would have to send something else, something strong.
Like another paradox pokemon.
>Except to get the paradoxes that were sent back.
What paradoxes that were sent back? What the frick are you even talking about? According to the professor paradox pokemon were sent from the ancient past or the distant future into the present, none of them were sent back to their time periods later, nor to any other time period, they are just around in Area Zero now.
>What paradoxes that were sent back?
At least one of each? Have you not played the game?
The occulture articles are based on the Book, yes? You get that right?
The book is an accurate log of Heath and his crew's expedition into Area Zero.
The Occulture articles used the physical descriptions and names made up by Heath in their articles.
For Heath to have accurate descriptions would mean that he would have to have encountered them in the past.
This is impossible without either
1) a time machine in the past
2) someone sending them from the present day into the past.
>none of them were sent back to their time periods later, nor to any other time period
We quite literally have physical evidence of them in the past in the form of the book.
>We quite literally have physical evidence of them in the past in the form of the book.
That's cool but when do we get to see the ones in the book in the present? That's what I want. They're way cooler in the book imo
What on earth are you talking about?
The paradox pokemon described in the book are the same species we see in the present.
That's not what that means.
That's exactly what that means.
>we see them in the book
>so they must have been sent to the past
>so we know they were sent to the past because we see them in the book
You can't use your claim as evidence of the claim.
>The paradox pokemon described in the book are the same species we see in the present.
They aren't though. The physical appearance of Tusk/Treads and all of the other dex entries prove otherwise.
Then there's the imaginary sketch and how it relates to the three missing Occulture journals. Time travel friendos are hyper fixated on suggesting there are pages of the book missing that they're based on and not the other way around from the fusion.
>The physical appearance of Tusk/Treads and all of the other dex entries prove otherwise.
You mean the physical appearance of Tusks and Treads that are exactly the same as the ones we see?
>Then there's the imaginary sketch and how it relates to the three missing Occulture journals
What about them? If the occulture books show up then that just means that Heath encountered them to write about them which would inspire the occulture books.
>Time travel friendos are hyper fixated on suggesting there are pages of the book missing that they're based on and not the other way around from the fusion.
You're not even making sense anymore.
But then again you've reached your meltdown stage.
You don't understand anon, the paradox book is 15 pages long. Briar showing us the uncensored manuscript with additional pages means nothing. There actually isn't anything else in there and you're CRAZY for IMAGINING that (LOL). But what I CAN tell you, is there's images of every paradox pokemon in the Occulture and there's gonna be more in the DLC! Haha! Gotcha!
I almost thought you were the actual guy I was talking to. Which is guess just shows how far gone he is.
>there's images of every paradox pokemon in the Occulture
Not necessary under time travel because the one in Heath's book and IRL are one and the same even though they're not (I don't have eyes btw)
>and there's gonna be more in the DLC! Haha! Gotcha!
There most certainly won't be more in the DLC. Never mind the fact that the files start at #4 and those are found in the Poco Path lab. It doesn't matter at all.
I am very intelligent and you are correct, they are seething.
anon the photos are different from the pokemons we can capture
they resemblance the sketeches more than the real Great tus or Iron treads
it's harder to see with iron threads, but the photo has a bigger square pattern on his trunk, and his weird ears/body or whatever is being covered by the trees is completely different as well
here the photo of great tusk has less spiky red throns on his trunk, and no red throrns in front of his trunk either unlike the real Great tusk
You know your image and his are just showing that there's almost no difference between the Donphan paradoxes, right?
did you even read what I posted?
Yes, it was basically word vomit from an ESL that didn't have an argument that couldn't be summed up as
>please please let me be right, your example is wrong because I said so.
you are so fuking stupid dude
Then make an argument that isn't just you grasping at whatever straws you can get like a minute change in pose.
Even if it does turn out to be imagination who do you think is going to be laughed at more? The people who cited the game and read it properly or you who screeched into the void and through an extreme stroke of luck got it?
How is this grasping at straws fricking moron
Can you do this but with Terapagos
Is there a photo of Terapagos?
>no spikes
>spikes are there only a different shape
>no ears
>no triangles
>triangles are literally covered by the ears because that's how perspective works
>Pattern?
>"pattern" is covered by the foliage
How is it not grasping when anyone with eyes can see what's going on? Your whole argument is based on your lack of object permanence, you're like a fricking baby that can't comprehend that things don't just stop existing if you can't see it directly.
>triangles are literally covered by the ears because that's how perspective works
so the ears are big like in the sketch?
Your two neurons inside your head must be working really hard to put all the pieces of the puzzle together
>spikes are there only a different shape
So you admit that the actual Great Tusk doesn't match the photograph.
>triangles are literally covered by the ears because that's how perspective works
The tail isn't obscured by the ears and there are still no triangles.
If this is a genuine photograph of the same pokemon, why doesn't it have all the same features?
>So you admit that the actual Great Tusk doesn't match the photograph.
It's almost as if it's a minute difference. Even then you can see the normal spikes on the nose so your argument is moot.
>The tail isn't obscured by the ears
Because the triangles on the tail get smaller until there's no triangles at all.
>If this is a genuine photograph of the same pokemon, why doesn't it have all the same features?
Motion blur
Foliage
Perspective
Think before you post.
Fricking hell, by your logic you'd be talking to no one but yourself because you can't see me. You're like a fricking flat earther.
>You're like a fricking flat earther.
Yeah, the fact people still think it's time travel really does give flat earther vibes. Especially since the game is pretty damning in its own rebuttal against it like shown in
>Current version Paradoxes cite the name being taken, like Occulture claims
>Opposite version Paradoxes straight up say they're probably from the magazine you can read in the opposite version
It's over.
version Paradoxes straight up say they're probably from the magazine you can read in the opposite version
Which means that it cites the violet book like occulture says.
>Which means that it cites the violet book like occulture says.
Sort of. Violet Book doesn't exist in Scarlet, so in this case the magazine exists independently which explains why both Paradoxes exist in both versions.
If the violet paradox occulture exist in scarlet without the scarlet book, could that mean that the pokemon in occulture predate the books? For example, great tusk is the pokeworld's equivalent of big foot, and when heath went to area zero he basically said he saw big foot or a version of big foot.
>It's almost as if it's a minute difference.
A minute difference is a difference. This isn't a sketch that someone exaggerated or misremembered a feature on the pokemon. This is supposed to be a photograph.
>Because the triangles on the tail get smaller until there's no triangles at all.
You can see in the actual in-game picture of Great Tusk that there are noticeable triangles at that same part of the tail. There are NO triangles at all in the supposed photograph.
>Motion blur
>Foliage
>Perspective
None of these explain why one feature is completely missing and the other is much more prominent. It's not a genuine photograph.
>A minute difference is a difference.
It really isn't because it can be explained in a multitude of ways, three of which were mentioned.
You'd have a point if it were some kind of major change like having four sets of tusks or something like that but as it is now you're looking at a 99.9% similarity to the one we encounter.
And again, Treads is completely accurate.
>that there are noticeable triangles at that same part of the tail.
Which is funny because you can actually see something like that on the tail.
>None of these explain why one feature is completely missing and the other is much more prominent
Place one hand in front of your face and look into a mirror anon. Tell me what you see.
And I don't think I need to explain motion blur.
>It's not a genuine photograph.
Anon, it's a genuine photograph. You'd have a point if it were just a blob like the bigfoot and mothman photos but here you can pick out a lot of details and make enough comparisons to say that it was a real photo.
Not to mention this only applies to Great Tusk, you have no argument for Koraidon, Miraidon and Iron Treads who are all depicted accurately.
>It really isn't because it can be explained in a multitude of ways, three of which were mentioned.
None of the three explanations you listed can explain why the horns are so much more prominent in the "photograph". Yes, it is a difference. One that can not be explained outside of:
>the Great Tusk he photographed is a completely different creature from the ones being pulled from the professor's machine
>it's a fake photograph and Great Tusk was never real until the professor created it
>None of the three explanations you listed can explain why the horns are so much more prominent in the "photograph".
Anon, I don't have the time to explain the mechanics of light to you so just wave your hand in front of your face and do this.
>Place one hand in front of your face and look into a mirror anon.
Okay I did it and I didn't sprout banana horns. What now?
>N-NO YOU SEE THE LIGHT IS REFRACTING OFF OF SWAMP GAS AND ONLY MAKING THE HORNS APPEAR MUCH LARGER AS AN OPTICAL ILLUSION CAUSED BY SCARLETITE IN THE CAMERA LENS
And you were calling other people flat earthers lmfao
Says the person currently trying to debunk fricking light.
I know how light works. I know that when you take a photograph of something, light doesn't just bend and twist and erase some features of the subject while exaggerating others. You're desperately trying to handwave this as "UUHHHH WELL IT'S LIKE UHHH... WEIRD LIGHT SHIT OBVIOUSLY THAT HAS TO BE IT BECAUSE OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE A FAKE PHOTO AND IT'S NOT". You're addicted to circular logic.
>light doesn't just bend and twist and erase some features of the subject while exaggerating others.
Yes, yes it does. That's literally how it works.
Not to mention we're also talking about older cameras.
the absolute state of time travelgays
The Great Tusk in the photo isn't in motion, nor is it blurred, nor are the horns distorted in a way that would suggest it's in motion because they are twisted upwards into a completely different shape rather than blurred in the direction it would be moving in. You're moronic and the fact that you have to reach this hard to try and dismiss the evidence in front of you should tell you that your moronic theory is fricking busted.
>The Great Tusk in the photo isn't in motion
Oh yeah, because they only managed to "catch glimpses" so something that was standing perfectly fricking still.
Not to mention, the page with the picture specifically mentions how it moves.
>nor is it blurred, nor are the horns distorted
Literally everything is blurred and the horns bend back more than they should, so much for that angle.
You're trying to get on people's case for "reaching" but here you are reaching so hard that you're outright disregarding the game now
>Oh yeah, because they only managed to "catch glimpses" so something that was standing perfectly fricking still.
Yeah, it's not blurred, so it must be still. You want to act like the horns are blurred somehow even though they're perfectly clear and also not even 'twisted' in the direction they would be blurred in if the Great Tusk was moving forward.
>Literally everything is blurred
It's not.
>and the horns bend back more than they should
Yes, they're much longer and bend backward much more than the actual Great Tusk. Thank you for your concession.
>Yeah, it's not blurred
You can visibly see the blurring why even lie about something that was the cornerstone of every single imaginationgay argument against time travel at this stage? You just look like a damn lunatic.
>they're much longer and bend backward much more than the actual Great Tusk.
Meaning you admit that blurring can change features. Finally, you're learning.
>You can visibly see the blurring
No? You can see every feature clearly.
>Meaning you admit that blurring can change features.
No, meaning that the features are different from the actual Great Tusk and there is no distortion or blurring that can explain the way in which the features are different. If the horns were simply blurred then they would be blurred in the direction of movement. That isn't the case. The horns go up and then back, and their shape is clear. They are not the same horns. You are delusional.
>You can see every feature clearly
Your entire argument is literally cannot see every feature clearly, you vat of expired semen.
>Your entire argument is literally cannot see every feature clearly
No, that's not the argument at all. You have to be trolling. Nobody can be this fricking stupid. The argument being made is that you CAN see every feature in the photograph clearly and that the features are inconsistent with the actual Great Tusk you see in the game. Maybe this is the issue, you don't actually read or entertain any idea that you don't want to acknowledge. That's how you can just shamelessly ignore everything in the game that prove there is no time travel happening.
>The argument being made is that you CAN see every feature in the photograph clearly and that the features are inconsistent
Anon, that's admitting that you cannot in fact see every feature clearly because of the blurring and everything else.
Not even neutron stars are as dense as you.
>Anon, that's admitting that you cannot in fact see every feature clearly because of the blurring and everything else.
No, not at all. What the frick is wrong with your head? The argument being made is that the features on the creature within the photograph are all clearly visible. The problem is that these clearly visible features are inconsistent with the features on Great Tusk. You're falling back on circular logic again trying to cope your way out of those. No, the features being inconsistent does not mean that the features on the photograph are obscured. It means the features on the photograph are different.
>The problem is that these clearly visible features are inconsistent with the features on Great Tusk.
Yes, because there's visual obfuscation.
You've hit argument bedrock anon. You're at the point where you're agreeing that it looks the same but are too stubborn to admit you were wrong.
>Yes, because there's visual obfuscation.
There's no obfuscation. Look right here.
There are very clear, distinct banana-shaped horns which are not present on Great Tusk. What level of delusional autism do you have to be on to be able to pretend you can't see this?
You mean the blurry and grainy horns?
I'll take that as a concession. Your picture doesn't change it when you can clearly see the blur on it.
Okay, you are just trolling then. Thank God.
You're either being baited or arguing with the timeschitzo
Also why aren't those jungle plants in the photo found in the actual area zero?
I wonder why there aren't any tall plants in an area that was overrun by crystals and then later had not one but two massive construction projects to build labs.
There's plenty of places untouched by construction and heath found crystals, not to mention AZ isn't devoid of plant life. And yet, no jungle foliage except in this one photograph that already is being questioned for its inconsistencies.
>not to mention AZ isn't devoid of plant life.
Anon, you don't have to completely destroy the local fauna to set up a building. You'd only have to destroy enough to get to the areas you need and dense jungle would be the first to go.
>and heath found crystals
Yes? These crystals grow incredibly fast.
And it’s almost like there is yet another level to this area, which actually might have had the jungle area, and we are going to that place next? Oh wait, we may just be.
I want to believe this but there's no way the AZ expedition went this deep, they were pretty detailed in how and where they travelled and things like their photos of the crop circle and the drawings of AZ in general lead me to believe their encounter with the donphans was above wherever we're going next.
I mean we don’t know how deep they actually went. The fact is, the Crystals Heath ended up recording look nothing like the ones around the Zero Lab; those ones must have mainly appeared in the intervening years after the places down there were built, to grow on the buildings like they had.
You can see the area where the lab was built, crystals included, on the cartograph page.
>light doesn't just bend and twist and erase some features of the subject
Also you
>WOAH HIS FINGERS BECAME See THROUGH!
There's also the fact that the spikes in the photo are longer and skinnier than the spikes on great tusk. The fact that the two donphans don't seem to match up is the most interesting part of the story for me, I hope it's not just a gamefreak fricked up moment
Agreed, Great Tusk looks more like the one you see in the Occulture.
Fixed it for you
So, you just did what exactly?
it means heath saw something different. and the great tusk/iron treads we got is a result of people (occulture & professor) reinterpreting it in their heads and not getting all the details right because they weren’t actually there with heath. funny how the iron treads’ violet book drawing has completely different feet and in the actual blurry photo the feet are completely obscured so we ended up with something different
>it means heath saw something different
And you're proving that by showing that he saw the exact same thing?
>funny how the iron treads’ violet book drawing has completely different feet
Yes, because it's the sketch artist reinterpreting it in their heads and not getting all the details right because they weren’t actually looking at it.
It was a sketch from memory.
>Yes, because it's the sketch artist reinterpreting it in their heads and not getting all the details right
So for Great Tusk why is the sketch consistent with the photograph but neither one is consistent with the real one?
>So for Great Tusk why is the sketch consistent with the photograph
It isn't. The photo looks like the in game model while the sketch is his interpretation with features not shown on the actual picture or pokemon like the thicker horns, spikes on the sides of the tail, longer claws and fleshy tendrils rather than the spikes on top.
The picture has none of these.
>The photo looks like the in game model
The in game model doesn't have banana horns, so no.
I said the photo, not the sketch.
Yeah, the photo with banana horns.
Anon, what does a banana look like to you?
the reason why Iron treads and the old photo can not be the same pokemon is because Iron treads can not run. It always curl itself into ball mode to do so. It's the reason why the sketch gives it big paws, becaue something with these tiny legs isn't made for running
Everyone, kneel before donphangay, he has returned.
>donphangay
Who is that?
This is circular logic.
Aaaah wait I get it, you are under the assumption the only way the time travel theory can make sense (if paradoxes are sent into the past after the main story is completed) is something that already happened, despite the fact it didn't. Man, you are such a clown.
I give up, this is simple concept and you can't understand it.
Anon, I'm trying to be reasonable with your schizoid delusion.
Nobody ever sent paradox pokemon to Heath's era. The only person with access to the time machine was a person who already believed Heath, so he had no reason to do so, and even if he had, there's also zero indication or hint for that happening, thus, we can conclude it's something that has not happened.
The paradox pokemon have never been sent to Heath's era, at least until The Indigo Disk arrives, that's literally the last chance you have for your delusion to make sense.
Yeah
thanks for confirming me it me
Like I said earlier, Heath couldn't possibly see the paradoxes unless we turn on the time machine in The Indigo Disk and send paradox pokemon to his era for some reason.
>unless we
>where the professor
Why do you think it has to be the player or the professor when we have at least two characters that would want to use it.
>characters that would want to use it
So you fully agree with me when I say that the time travel narrative is impossible unless we reactivate the machine in The Indigo Disk.
Good.
>unless we
It doesn't have to be us. It most likely won't be us who reactivates it.
Both Briar and Momotaro would want to activate it for the same reason.
>purposelly missing the point
Anyway, you agree that no time machine reactivation confirms time travel was never real.
You're not even trying to make sense now.
Anon I'm literally working with the same logic you applied in your last two posts. If someone (us, Briar, Dokutaro, who cares) uses the timemachine to send the paradoxes back in time then everything is cool for the time travel theory. If this doesn't happen in The Indigo Disk then time travel theory dies because Heath never saw those paradox pokemon in his era.
>I'm literally working with the same logic you applied in your last two posts
No, no you aren't. You're using your logic calling it mine, you've already shown that you don't even know what the point of this conversation was when you said this
>purposelly missing the point
When nothing changed.
Literally here
the only thing you would change of my post is that the MC doesn't have to be the one re-activating the timemachine to make possible Heath seeing them in the past.
And I agree, it doesn't have to be the MC. Everything else is still correct, and it's against your narrative. Are (You) even trying?
Anon, that's not your post and nothing you said goes against what I'm saying. All you've said is if the time machine wasn't turned on again, it couldn't be time travel in the dlc which of course is common sense, things don't work if they aren't on which is why it's just idiocy since you're just stating the obvious instead of making a point.
>Anon, that's not your post
... moron, that's exactly what I'm saying. It's YOUR post, replying to MY post. YOU agreed with me with the only note that the MC doesn't have to be the one using it.
>All you've said is if the time machine wasn't turned on again, it couldn't be time travel in the dlc which of course is common sense
Stopped reading here. For 5th time and last time, you just agreed with me. That's it, you do know time travel is 100% fake unless the time machine the trailers are ignoring suddenly gets activated again, I've got nothing else to discuss.
>It's YOUR post
Yes, so why did you link it as if it helps you and why claim it was yours?
>YOU agreed with me
Anon, you're the one agreeing with me. Your claim was that it was the protag or the professor, I said it could have been one of the two other characters with a motive and now you're agreeing that it could be.
>you just agreed with me.
Anon, saying something won't work if it's not turned on isn't agreeing with you, nor does it help your argument because you don't know that it won't be turned on.
>unless the time machine the trailers are ignoring
You don't need it in the trailer because it's just a tool now, it's not particularly important now because we already know who made it and why.
Are you okay? Like mentally.
Because you're making very little sense
I don't even know how to respond to people that are this logically incoherent. I hope to God that you're just a troll.
That's just admitting you have no idea what you got yourself into.
I mean, that's to be expected from someone with such poor reading comprehension and logic but still.
>"so you expect that the protag will turn the machine back on in indigo disk?"
>it doesn't have to be the protag
>"okay so you agree that time travel doesn't make sense unless someone turns the machine back on in indigo disk?"
>HUH??? WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT??? YOU'RE CONFUSED
Dude you can't even follow your own conversation. Not the same anon you were talking to, by the way. If you're not a troll then you are genuinely insane.
Again, how does that help your argument?
You don't know what's in the dlc so that's a completely pointless statement, there's no logic.
You just said
>IF THEY DON'T TURN IT ON ITS NOT TIME TRAVEL!
if I say yes what does that achieve for you? Did you just want a default win by stating the fact that you can't use the time machine if it's off? Are you genuinely mentally moronic? Because this is the equivalent of going being the defendant in a murder case and saying
>your honor I couldn't have killed this man because guns don't work unless you pull the trigger
If that doesn't make sense to you then neither does your "argument"
Timegay imagined a whole secret chapter of the game where the professor also sent paradoxmons to Heath's time period so he could see them even though the professor believed Heath all along and would have no reason to think he needs assistance seeing the paradoxmons.
how does this thing even function
I hate how half of them are cyborg but don't look the part
Koriadon&Miriadon are both stated to be already familiar with humans kinda help time travel theory I guess
The schizo has now determined that everything is imagination including time travel.
>main theme of the whole game and the dlc is making your dream come true and urban legends coming to life
>NO IT'S TIME TRAVEL BECAUSE ONE CHARACTER SAID SO AND NO DON'T EVEN MENTION THAT THIS CHARACTER'S EXPLANATION WAS POINTED OUT AS BEING NONSENSE WITHIN THE GAME ITSELF
>schizo meltdown begins
>thread devolves into "you're the schizo" "no you're the schizo"
Ladies, you're both schizos, just embrace it
I think Heath was imagined its own Cyclizar like a most reliable, strong companion, then terapagos power make up his vision to came true. Or Heath in Area Zero had strong desire to seeing its writing creatures, based from ancient manuscripts/sci-fi magazines and then paradoxes came to be born. The raidones are one specific paradoxes, that not descibted with other sources, but Heath scarlet/violet books.
I'm really looking forward to Thursday.
God the shitstorm is gonna we so great
You're going to be disappointed.
Imaginationgay is just going to stop posting.
And timegays don't really care. Granted you would probably see imaginationgay pretend to be one.
lol you're already telegraphing your intent to vanish and pretend you never cared about the debate in the first place. You feel the walls closing in?
>even if the dlc doesn't answer anything I'm still right
Something tells me Thursday is just going to be anons claiming they're right with no seething about being wrong
Why would it be imagination? They're real
Well you see it's a dream machine. Or a wish machine. Or an imagination machine. It's literally anything but a time machine ok?
Because tera crystals conjure wishes into reality.
At this point, just wait until the DLC releases and flat-out tells us. We've beaten this discussion to death already, and if you haven't formed some idea of what's going on by now then you're better off waiting for GameFreak to spell it out for you like the child you are.
calling it now, they're going to explain terapagos's powers but they won't explain what that means for the paradox pokemon
in other words, they'll show the bare minimum necessary to wrap up the story without going into any of the finer details
consider the following:
>crystallized tree in area zero
time travel tree
>tera crystals encase pokemon, buildings, and machines
😐
>tera crystals encase a tree
:O O
this seemingly random tree near the end of the map
If the tree isn't just cool looking scenery, it's making me think paradox mons might be pokemon that changed forms due to tera shit
>surrounded by a bunch of these
>Kieran is gonna get himself deported
there was either something down there before (paldean empire) or the crystals are making their way up from area zero
and if the process can be expedited...
Aren't those melted mountains from the fish?
the titan? idk
but this is on the side bordering the end of the map, it looks to me like crystals that they didn't finish rendering for (reasons)
>the titan?
No, Chi-Yu, he was bound in that area. It's like rock that he melted down into obsidian.
oh yeah that could be that too
also don't know if its important but if you go to that tree you'll find exp candies of all sizes in a circle around the tree
It's the tree the glimmet come from.
And where Momotaro came from.
At this point I'm pretty convinced imaginationgays are taking the piss like 90% of flat earthers
Bingo. Unfortunately the newfriends in here keep engaging with them and falling for the same bait they've been using forever.
Wtf is an imagination paradox
Reminder dreamt up Pokémon were already established in gen 5.
This is obviously something else like a time paradox.
Dream world mon aren't manifestations, you're meeting pokemon who live in the entree forest in their dreams.
But you're not wrong.
>source: my ass
sure, wailmer and arceus that you can get from the dream world are casually just living in a forest. suuuuuuuure. they’re manifested into existence
They would never do time shenanigans in pokemon. Please do not look at the Celebi, Dialga, Hoopa, or Arceus behind the curtain.
>Hoopa
>time
Yep, it yoinks whatever it wants to. It does a bunch of shenanigans in the villain arc of Pokemon Masters.
>Masters
>I will cherrypick the part of your post that I do not like, then I will be dismissive when I am wrong
>when I am wrong
Reminder we already had time traveling Pokemon in gen 2.
This is obviously something else like dreams manifesting in reality.
Good thing these are Paradox mons and not Travel mons
Amount of autism in this thread is fricking terminal lmao
I hope they will finally give an answer about what it actually was so you autistic will just shut your fricking mouths for once
>it's not paradox donphan because.. it just isn't okay? It's something else even though that makes no sense and gf wouldn't bother doing that since it's just a teaser that you'll fight it later in the game
>NO NO NO THERE *HAS* TO BE SOME KIND OF HIDDEN MYSTERY TO THIS BABY GAME
Unova is a paradox region.
>unova had a visual theme of past and future
If they have some wit, GF could associate these ideas between SV and the BW remakes, a perfect pretext to give us new Paradoxmons
I don't know man, I just like seeing cool unga bunga Pokemon
I don't give a frick, I'm just gonna play the DLC and laugh at you theory trannies getting btfo by reality.
I'm honestly surprised that people still believe in the imagination theory.
I mean, wake and leaves were the final nail.
Yeah the Pokemon that didn't exist in the ancient past and would never turn into objects designed by humans are definitely the final nail for anything that's not time travel.
Timesissies it feels good to win!
3 more days til we can actually discuss the lore
>he thinks we'll be able to discuss the lore and schizos still won't try to turn every thread into an argument
Depends on how it resolves. It'll either be a clear temporal loop or imagination god turtle. All this other bullshit posted here will be irrelevant.
I meant that if the paradox mons are resolved we're just going to move on to the next argument. Most anons here don't care about lore, they just want to argue.
Fair.
I wonder what the next one will be, which PLA forms are extinct or not? I can see that getting as bad as time travel or imagination
>Most anons here don't care about lore, they just want to argue.
Nah, lore and theory crafting is one of the last good things about /vp/. The problem is that when he imagination theory was first coming up, everyone did what they did and tore it apart to understand it and maybe make it work, you know, like we usually do but a certain someone didn't like that it didn't go exactly how he wanted it.
>a single anon is able to destroy lore threads by instigating arguments
If that's true, that just proves my point, people here just want to argue, not talk about lore. Although I personally don't think that's true since I've seen multiple people arguing for imagination theory, not just one anon
That's what I thought at first too but there's been no variation to it at all
You might want to go off of what is actually in the game then instead of baseless shit like Penny hacking the time machine or ignoring everything else.
You're not helping your case when you do shit like this imaginationgay
its really hard to discuss lore when one giga autist keeps looping the discussion back to shit already discussed to death
we barely get to talk about dokutaro or the dream powers because we have to talk about the professor some more
Fricking tell me about it. The guy can't just accept that the origins of the paradox pokemon have already been revealed and everyone wants to move on.
If the discussion keeps looping back towards the professor, it seems like it's not just the giga autist who wants to talk about it. You can't argue about the peach, or at least not as much as you can about the professor I guess
No, dipshit, it's literally one guy who keeps bringing up the professor and what counts as a paradox or whatever, he does this because nothing past the basegame has even a lick to do with time travel, but it HAS TO BE TIME TRAVEL so instead of going over the new information he posts some moronic bait that's easily corrected, which in turn gets the thread arguing about the professor again.
So you're the autist who won't stop going back to the professor.
Yeah, that's the result of poketuber OC brainrot, for you. Rather than actually dissect the game to contribute to the theory they'd rather just deny it to say it's time travel no matter what.
Really will be fun seeing the meltdown.
Bold of you to assume they'll leave when they'll just adapt their shitposting.
Sharty posters literally have an anti-time travel pasta on their "how to troll /vp/ page.
I like that people think anything will be resolved. I hope they keep it super open ended so the shitposting goes on until pokemon past and future are released
Iron bundle is from the past and breaks the time travel consistency of past and future
You guys know you dont have to respond to posts you dont like right
Heres the thing, we like talking about the lore and don't care who says what as long as everything eventually gets on the same page but the problem lies with autists like 55006377
Who constantly come back day after day spamming the same thing over and over again.
The best part of this thread is the gay pretending that a time travel plot featuring blatant paradoxes isn't convoluted because the writers would just wing it without caring about basic continuity because it's a children's game, while insisting that a stereotypical wish granter story with one singular misdirect must necessarily be intentionally convoluted
>with one singular misdirect
The entire story and visual theme of the game would be a misdirect anon and the story wouldn't make logical sense.
But the entire story and visual theme is about making dreams come true and making fantasy into reality. The single misdirect is when the professor tells you they made a time machine, which the game points out later was indeed a misdirect.
The entire theme of the game is the power of friendship, the frick are you on.
Actually the major theme of the game is that things are not as they initially appear.
Yeah tell me again how you somehow thought Clive was Casseopoia, I love that one.
Well the game tells you that he's Cassiopeia, so that's what you must think right? Later revelations don't matter to you.
>Clive walks in on you talking on the phone with Casseopia
But let's ignore that part and skip to what you want to focus on
>OMG GUYS LOOK HE SAID HE WAS CASSEOPIA THIS WHOLE TIME
>2 min later
>oh he wasn't omg he lied it wasn't what it seemed!
>Clive walks in on you talking on the phone with Casseopia
But this doesn't matter to you because Clive tells you he's Cassiopeia, and you've made it clear that you prioritize whatever first explanation a character exposits on you in spite of any logical inconsistencies. Which is why you still believe in time travel.
>oh he wasn't omg he lied it wasn't what it seemed!
Yes, correct. He pretends he's Cassiopeia, and then he's not. And I'm really gonna blow your mind here: He's also Clavell in disguise.
I'm glad gamefreak wrote a story about a parent that abandoned their child to spend 15 years trying to accomplish something Heath did in a couple days.
I'm expecting that the peach is the reason the professor went batshit.
I bet snacksworth is the peach too
Clive is not Cassiopea, that's Clavell.
>The single misdirect is when the professor tells you they made a time machine,
Anon, under imagination these are all misdirects
>sada and Turo's names
>the theme of the paradox pokemon
>the traditional and modern themes of Kitakami and Blueberry
>heath encountering the paradoxes when he shouldn't have been able to
>the Scarlet/Violet book being real
>the genetic link between the Raidon and cyclizar
>the currently known effects of Tera energy
>Arven alluding to a time paradox
And of course the time machine itself.
Needless to say that's well beyond what's used for just a misdirect where only one would suffice, the only misdirect under time travel for instance would be the general reception of Heath's book since it was said to be fiction.
The amount you'd have to change for imagination would just require a full retcon.
That why I have zero respect for imagination theorists, they go completely against the game just to peddle their headcanon which to this day still has no tangible evidence.
I bet they're going to call me timeschizo or something like that now.
>sada and Turo's names
No, their obsession is with the past/future, and that remains regardless of whether they actually accessed that time period. Their obsession with those time periods is actually a crux of imagination theory because there's no actual indication in Heath's record or in Occulture that any of these pokemon were from the time period the professor imagines them to be. Meaning that the professor just decided themselves that the paradoxmons must be from the time period they were personally obsessed with, and then supposedly accessed the single period of time these mons came from.
>the theme of the paradox pokemon
The theme of the paradoxmons is cryptids. Dinosaurs living past extinction, ancient Atlantean automatons, alien probes, etc.
>the traditional and modern themes of Kitakami and Blueberry
Rural Japan and a modern school are not prehistory or the distant future.
>heath encountering the paradoxes when he shouldn't have been able to
But this is one of the reasons brought up as to why time travel makes no sense, because as you say he should not have been able to encounter them. There was no time machine in his period.
>the Scarlet/Violet book being real
There's no indication of that.
>the genetic link between the Raidon and cyclizar
If you wish for a genetic relative of a pokemon, the result born from your imagination would be a genetic relative. You've had this explained to you, you're just pretending to be stupid. You don't need to imagine the entire genetic code of an apple to wish an apple into existence from a genie.
>the currently known effects of Tera energy
Doing whatever the person in possession wants at the time?
>Arven alluding to a time paradox
He does no such thing. He says that the time travel explanation doesn't add up at all. That's not alluding to a time paradox, that's telling you that you're stupid for still insisting it's time travel.
>, their obsession is with the past/future
They're literally named after the Spanish words for past, paSADA and fuTURO you idiot. This point has nothing to do with their actual state of mind or obsession but that the theme of past and future is baked into their name and design.
>The theme of the paradoxmons is cryptids.
It's not, it's never been cryptids which is why there's not a single paradox pokemon with a design inspired by a cryptid.
They're all ancient dinosaurs and futuristic automatons, anything more than that is your headcanon that isn't supported by the game.
>Rural Japan and a modern school are not prehistory or the distant future.
Traditionalism and modernity are thematically related to the past and future respectively.
>But this is one of the reasons brought up as to why time travel makes no sense
Anon, it can only work because the paradox pokemon are currently roaming about in the modern day Area Zero where the time machine is.
Under imagination there's absolutely no way for heath to see them which is why the ludicrous idea of heath faking his expedition came to be in the first place.
>There's no indication of that.
Everything in the book is real, the layout, the herbs, titan pokemon, the markings, the plate, the paradoxes, terapagos. It's real whether you want to accept it or not.
>If you wish for a genetic relative of a pokemon
Except the imagination theory isn't about wishing, it's about bringing thoughts and desires to life. You yourself even said that earlier in this post.
How you can't see the holes in your theory when you can't keep it straight is beyond me.
>Doing whatever the person in possession wants at the time?
Exactly, that's not what Tera energy does and we've never seen it change on a whim like that at any point in time. In other words, it has set effects and isn't a magical mcguffin.
>He does no such thing. He says that the time travel explanation doesn't add up at all.
I'm pretty sure you've had this explained to you before but Arven doesn't once say that time travel doesn't make sense.
He outright mentions the paradox in question that can only occur with a time machine
>Wait, hold on... Isn't my mom'sS/dad'sV time machine the whole reason the ancientS/futureV Pokémon ended up here in the first place? This book is from way before sheS/heV made the time machine, but it mentions ancientS/futureV Pokémon. Isn't that kinda...weird? ... ... ..."
The key note in Arven's text is that it mentions what we assume to be the same ancient/future Pokemon, even though they're really not.
The names are taken and they share some similarities, but all of the dex entries note that they're not exactly the same.
When do they ever mention them even being different? All of them say something like: “this creature matches the description of (paradox name) so we’re calling it that”. It’s recently discovered in the context of the story anon. That’s kinda the whole point.
>Scarlet: Sightings of this Pokémon have occurred in recent years. The name Great Tusk was taken from a creature listed in a certain book.
>Violet: This creature resembles a mysterious Pokémon that, according to a paranormal magazine, has lived since ancient times.
The wording in all languages is pretty explicit in drawing out differences to how similar they appear to be. There are even differences between the ones we know and the ones described in Occulture in some cases, which gives further credence to the point that these were specifically a product of our professor.
You don't really need to get this deep into the rabbit hole if you just look at how they are in the books compared to in-game, though. They're just markedly different and we don't really know how they got to that point other than there being some connection between the imaginary sketch and Iron Leaves / Walking Wake.
I still don’t see where that text mentions similarity. I get it with the paradox legends, but we were talking about Arven, who was talking about the “normal” paradoxes. There’s never text mentioning the paradoxes we see deviating from how they’re described in the books.
>This book is from way before sheS/heV made the time machine, but it mentions ancientS/futureV Pokémon. Isn't that kinda...weird? ... ... ...
It comes into play here. He's pointing out that something doesn't match up between what's depicted in the book and what we know to be true after the fact from the time machine.
Heath's record never actually depicts the paradoxes as being from the past or future, but it's logical in-universe for people to assume the Paradoxes we see and the things in the book are one and the same.
That's the real reason why this line is so damning; it's not confirmation for imagination or time travel, it's just pointing out that there is a reason to be critical of the Paradox origin.
I see what you're saying, but I came to a different conclusion. Arven is just calling them ancient/future Pokemon because that's all you've known the paradoxes as as you four went into area zero. I'm not denying that occulture describes them as such, I just think that the part of what he said that Arven is weirded about isn't the fact that there's some coincidence that his parent described the paradoxes closer to how occulture did, but rather he's just weirded out that ANYONE even knew about these mons at all before the machine brought them here.
>He's pointing out that something doesn't match up between what's depicted in the book and what we know to be true after the fact from the time machine.
Anon that's not Arven pointing out the time machine doesn't make sense. That's Arven blatantly pointing out the paradox.
>That's Arven blatantly pointing out the paradox.
That's not a paradox. If you subscribe to the idea that the Pokemon are really from the ancient past or future, were brought to the present, yet somehow appeared slightly differently to Heath and then disappeared until the time machine was made again, it's just a stable loop because you're also making the massive assumption there was a time travel related reason they disappeared from Heath's time until now.
>That's not a paradox.
Anon, the paradox mon existing 200 years ago to inspire the professor who was the one who created the time machine that sent them back 200 years ago is a causality paradox.
It has no beginning but no end.
>who created the time machine that sent them back 200 years ago
Your headcanon is not a paradox.
Good thing the game basically slaps you with that fact then.
I know, it makes it all the more hilarious that people think there's going to be some insane rebooting of the time machine for Pokemon that aren't even from the past or future, and then throw a tantrum when someone points out it isn't that deep.
They're in for a rude awakening for sure.
This is the kind of poor reading comprehension that created the imagination theory in the first place.
You mean the time travel cope? Yeah.
>inb4 the professor sent the paradoxes to Heath's time even though the professor always believed Heath and would have no reason to think he'd need assistance encountering the pokemon
the simplest solution is that the professor just snatches them from Heath's time rather than finding them elsewhere and lied about it