>party is losing hard
>it looks like the end
>then an old, almost forgotten friend steps in out of the blue
Have you seen this done well in your games? I haven't cuz I'm nogames for ttrpgs right now but the concept sounds really fun
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>players are about to lose game
>referee wins the game for them
That sounds awful.
No, that sounds like deus ex machina.
Which is completely fine if your group is not used to losing their characters. Shitty, but it is what it is
If it's an npc they actually like and went out of their way to help / put into a position where their intervention would make sense, then it's fine. Just make sure the circumstances leading to whatever fight you might pull it in make sense.
It's not at all impossible to have an NPC join the fray while still making sure to keep things tilted toward challenge. Most games have a numerical element that can give a good sense of whether or not a scenario can be handled through conventional means, and if your party's already down to their last threads of life and opportunity odds are good they weren't going to pull a fix out of their asses.
Throwing something into the equation that makes a win more possible without going DMPC SAVES THE DAY is viable.
I didn't have someone like that save the day, but the party came across a charlatan who'd been claiming credit for Their successes, and opted to drag him along for the ride. They had a good time throwing him in the water to sink or swim, but when things got rough and the party was in a bad situation, his return with a handful of healing potions was enough to keep the game going a little further, show that their efforts had had a respectable impact on this seemingly useless twit of an NPC, and set the stage for them to continue.
He eventually became part of the calculous for the party's endeavors, and it was taken as a solid Loss when he died trying to save some non-combatants with them a few months and sessions later.
The difficulty for the DM is finding the point of "Helpful, but not unfairly powerful".
Is your party a bunch of damage dealers and tanks? Having a medic NPC can be a nice touch and add a point of vulnerability or complexity if they come to rely on them.
Are they a stealthy operation squad? Having an info-broker, money-launderer, or even just Dude With The Car can be something that helps out in an unexpected pinch or if the situation would devolve to something bland, boring, grindy, or even just not Timely if you're looking to find a viable resolution to the situation before the session needs to end because it's 5am, you've been at this shit since noon Yesterday, and you have to get to work by 7.
Very good post. I'd also add that having your NPC show up to help turn the tide of battle only for the party to wipe anyway (strictly because the dice went against the party, not GM fiat) would actually be a more memorable outcome as this character in question could have lived another day but chose to make a futile last stand instead. And if the bad guys win the battle but the PCs escape with their lives thanks to having an extra body on their side then all the better. I definitely want to use your Dude With A Car(Horse) example in future.
I think the idea works if the NPCs are less engaged in the direct battle. So PCs duel the dark lord while the various kingdoms they’ve united battle his army, or the leet hacker or former badguy lieutenant helps get you into the base.
They are there and they are vital but they aren’t stealing the spotlight.
>Not part of the game, just listening to friends play DnD while I do other shit
>Players have a bounty on their head, so Bounty hunters are gunning for them
>2 extremely powerful Bounty hunters are after them and nearly wiped them first encounter
>Ones a spellcaster and the other is a feral lady whatever
>fastfoward some sessions later and they're fighting them again in a sewer
>Minmaxed barbarian is at 1hp only because they made themselves bigger
>The feral lady is fricked but the powerful spellcaster is still there, unharmed and ready to deal finishing blows
>Gets shanked repeatedly in a surprise attack by a little girl assassin who the Party spared a couple sessions ago
>Bounty hunter is absolutely fricked and the party manages to escape with their lives
>"Hey NPC, how dd you know we were here"
>"....I've been secretly following you the entire time..."
I'm not really a fan of Players getting pulverized by Boss level characters just to get bailed out at the last minute with a surprise attack from a child
It kind of cheapens the intensity and makes it seem like you're never in any real danger that you'd have to think on your feet
>gm finally takes off the kids gloves and makes me think hard
>solves encounter for me anyway
I ree
I've done the exact opposite of this on a couple of occasions over the years
Shouldn't do it too often because it's fairly demoralising, but nothing serves to create tension and drama more than defeat ripped from the jaws of victory.
>then an old, almost forgotten friend steps in out of the blue
I actually did this, and together the old friend and the bbeg beat the party
While I haven't done this specifically, I regularly have NPCs betray each other, try to ally or make deals with the party, have moments of weakness that can be taken advantage of, etc. But it's always entirely up to the players how they engage with any situation, and I never try to force any particular outcome, nor is any possible outcome more preferable to me than any other.
heh, the better way to implement this would be if a few of the party's acquaintances and friends they've made along their path come together to give them assistance when te fate of the land is at stake,so the fight effectively become the heroes and the Stewards of the Land against the Realm-Rending threat.
in an online game this worked because the dm brought in someone completely different to play a character established earlier that session, it worked perfectly.
It's been teased that this may happen at some point during a pf2 game i'm playing in. a PC had to quit, and i'm actually kind of looking forward to it because i want to hear my dm imitating the guy's voice.
>Playing a permadeath game where 0 hp = instadeath
>Players dying left and right, someone rolls a new character at least once every other session
>Endgame combat is against a Necromancer
>He summons a bunch of PC's who have died throughout the campaign. For each I use their character sheets at the time of their death.
It didn't have quite the "oh shi-" impact I was hoping for but I enjoyed the setup nonetheless.
badass. i'd use this for a game but i know for a fact at least one of my players is completely uninterested in meatgrinder campaigns.
if you have players who are willing to run a game like this, what's stopping you from running Temple of Horrors/Annihilation, not necessarily using D&D system or the setting, just give it a new coat of paint in the flavour of the setting you play.
My personal reason is that I enjoy DM'ing homebrewed worlds and campaigns more. I have tried using sourcebooks in the past and it really didn't work for me. Aesthetic preferences aside, I also just don't have the memory for it.
But that's probably a bit close-minded of me. Probably those books you mention would at least be good sources of inspiration / have a few set-pieces I could copy/paste.
>Temple of Horrors/Annihilation
Maybe anon wanted a campaign with plausible threats that could be reacted to by planning with the info roleplaying social scenarios and exploring nets instead of pointless save or dies and red herrings? Dunno, just a thought!
What makes you think he's interested in running that module?
just go run gurps as a dungeoncrawling game and you'll have a far better experience
lmfao
>It didn't have quite the "oh shi-" impact I was hoping for but I enjoyed the setup nonetheless.
Neat idea, but yeah I can see that maybe it doesn't translate as well as one hopes.
Maybe it would work in a slightly less lethal campaign, longer running one.
But harder setup.
No. The players are the focus of an RPG not your GMPC
In my games, I have living opponents start to run away if too many of their fellows die. After fighting vine beasts for a few sessions, my players got ambushed by goblins and got fricked up pretty bad, their companion went critical and I did a good job stressing my players. They had forgotten that living opponents start to flee if they get fricked up too bad and when the goblins started running away the sense of relief on their faces was great.
Shadowrun 4E had tables for different groups enemies that stated what percentage of the attacking group had to die before they would flee.
Only like special forces commandos/red samurai and shit like that had the fight to the death numbers.
had an amazingly executed one happen
>large group, 9 players total
>on a quest to resurrect St Cuthbert
>DM is running a greyhawk module he ported over to 5e, we're in some dungeon Iuz's followers control
>we're in hour 3 of combat
>we're in trouble, our oath of the crown paladin and life cleric duo who keep each other in the black on hp have been seperated.
>warlock, sorceror and wizard are all down
>i'm fine because i'm playing a bear totem barb/pugilist with infinite temp HP but i'm pretty much castrated by a psychic who's slapping me in my dump stats
>life cleric get's fireballed, goes down w/o being able to share the damage with the paladin
>death saves are being failed, everyone is in a bad fricking mood OOC
>DM switches songs on the sound track to the Rohirrim charging in
>all of the sudden the door at the top of the stairs blows open and our friend Josh who we haven't seen in two years (he was in the navy) comes running down the stairs screaming
>his warlock-cleric he played before shipping out teleports in and revives the the life cleric, start eldritch blasting everything
it was fricking awesome.
10/10 story, God bless Josh
>be me, Aasimar Sorcerer/Cleric in Curse of Strahd
>Generally try to put myself into the shit on the party's behalf being the most veteran tabletop player and as an angel-man among a group of muddy peasants he doesn't generally trust them with dire situations
>This becomes my downfall as Strahd himself came to frick with us when we came for the hag tower, I hide away from the group and when he indicates he's aware of our presence I step out alone and challenge him to a duel, erupting my wings and taking to the skies with him flying after me
>I keep Strahd occupied long enough for the party to kill the hags, resisting his attempts to toy with and humiliate me using Polymorphing and intimidation with a strong Charisma/Will and blocking his swings with expenditures of the Shield spell, but he loses his patience and starts Fireballing before I can dive down into a nearby river and escape with my aquatic mobility
>I start to fall out of the sky, he catches me and tries to get me to give up Ireena one last time, I try to push out of his grip to get to the water again, and fail. He kills me and subsequently raises me into the ultimate edgelord vampire-angel spawn
>be me again, Human Champion Fighter town guard of Vallaki
>The rebels who slew Izek and overthrew the Burgomaster arrive near the town border to check on its status under new leadership, I was planning to off Izek myself so I abandon my post on the spot to join them.
>We have a few adventures together, saving kids from a den of werewolves and uneasily trying to cooperate with the Abbot.
>Eventually, we're on track to the infamous Amber Temple, but just before we reach those gilded doors, we see an ominous gathering of Strahd's men outside the door, somehow aware we'd be coming.
>Thinking quickly, I suggest a plan getting the casters and NPCs of the group to gather up in a special larger-sized Bag of Holding we had acquired and the frontliners muscle through the lines to drop a veritable magic nuke on them.
>Strahd's lieutenant taunts us as we make our presence known, then says I know what to do before departing with his entourage.
>The party is confused, but I'm not. I turn around to face them, halberd drawn, and inform them that the same night they slaughtered Izek they also claimed my brother's life. All this time I had reported their movements to Strahd, and bided my time for this moment.
>The name I told them was mine was actually my dead brother's. I wanted to make sure they remember it.
>We have a fierce battle, and I reveal the skills I withheld throughout our travels, exchanging accusations between blows that eventually touch a nerve, and so I hurl the Bag of Holding with half the party and their NPC companions off the bridge into a deep gulch.
>Worse still, the martials aren't able to break through my PAM/GWF cheese, as it turned out I had 3 extra levels on them, as they're nearing death, I reveal the final nail in the coffin for them.
>Flapping his skeletal wings from the sky, my vampirized Aasimar descends, the first time they've seen him since he took off to engage Strahd. The group is starting to OOC complain about an unwinnable encounter.
>be me again-again, the Aasimar Sorceror/Cleric once more
>The nature of my death brought about great unrest, my body being twisted into nearly the inverse of its original self further embittering my soul. As well, nothing is truly gone in the lands of Barovia, and so from these factors my spirit is risen as a vengeful Revenant, tasked by my pantheon with the destruction of my corrupted other self.
>Though I could not track the movements of my allies, my Revenant's senses set me on the path stalking Strahd's newest spawn, and so when he appeared before the group in their seeming moment of defeat, so did my ghost, rising from beneath the bridge and holding the sack I had callously hurled aside earlier.
>The party is restored to full strength, and my Fighter has an emotional breakdown into a piteous heap as he is beaten into submission and abandoned by the Vampire spawn.
>They decide not to finish him and leave him where he lay, and he makes an appearance during the final assault on Strahd's palace, at peace with the party and helping them take down the count after my Aasimar's ghost finished its duty and passed on.
And that was the story of how I saved the party from me and me, a decently standout highlight of the campaign (the group said this I swear I'm not twiddling my dingus here).
I did that for a beloved player reentrance. Campaign went long enough that one of our players moved away for over a year and then moved back and I let him jump in and reveal he moved back to town during a particularly tough combat encounter. It was fun.
Why is no one in this thread discussing anything? Is everyone on Ganker a bot?
Happened in the climax of the first arc of an Eberron campaign I played a while ago.
As we advanced towards the final climax and we found ourselves against more and more insurmountable odds, allies we've made during the campaign showed up to help in a myriad of ways.
There was even a gnome and a dwarf doing a suicide attack using a balloon filled with explosives to open the way for us to face the final challenge.
My character also got to hug his silver dragon girlfriend one last time right before that, when she showed up to deliver us a counter measure that was key right at the end, a gift from a organization that's been helping us from the shadows without our knowledge.
Shit was all sorts of incredible I tell you.
No but we have done the inverse multiple times, where the party learns an NPC(s) they like are in trouble and drops everything to go help them, heroically arriving just in time to aid them in fighting off the threat